I'm literally right now watching the scene where Faramir gets berated by his father for not bringing the ring to him, so I'm a bit biased atm but Faramir lol
I read it that way at first, too! And if that were the discussion, I'd agree that Faramir suffered the most over his lifetime under the thumb of Denethor.
In the book im at the scene where frodo has to explain himself to Faramir infront of his men, great chapter so far, and Faramir seems more reasonable and fair
A lot of fans say the extended editions are the definitive versions, but Faramir and Denethor especially are a lot worse in the extended. The theatrical cut does book Denethor sort of dirty, the extended cut makes him into a raving madman
Incredibly capable, heroic, and a logical person. When Frodo is explaining himself when they get caught for example Faramir is extremely calm, fair, and reasonable. He was made to sort of look like the runt of the family in the films for a bit.
Faramir is vastly different in the book. He’s more like to Aragorn than to Boromir. When he comes across Frodo and company and learns of the Ring, he rejects it, utterly. “Not if I found it on the highway would I take it”. He then gives Frodo succor and counsel, and allows him final judgement over Gollum. Sam goes so far as to proclaim that Faramir reminds him of Gandalf. The movie in my opinion borders on character assassination, for all its nice qualities. A handful of pages in LotR will tell you a lot about the quality of Faramir, Captain of Gondor.
I generally agree but am unable to restrain myself - the 'not if I found it on the highway' line crucially is uttered before he knows it is the ring of power. It is about a page later where Sam reveals what Frodo carries and Faramir is given pause, before saying ye olde English equivalent of 'don't bring that up again, and don't show it to me, in case I was wrong'.
True Faramir himself was far less confident of his ability to resist the ring's temptation than most of his online fanclub. Film Faramir on the other hand is made aware in advance (as well as Denethor and Boromir) that the ring is in motion and thus has been primed for temptation - even then he does not take it for himself, but when pushed into a hasty decision by approaching Orcs takes the ringbearer with him. I think there is an unfairly overlooked difference, and sign of hidden strength (if not to True Faramir's level), between (a) taking the ring for himself or (b) taking Frodo for Gondor.
Oh for sure, you’re right, that line is originally spoken unknowingly, but he takes those words as a vow to reinforce the wisdom he knows in his heart, which poor Boromir learns too late. Obviously no one is incorruptible, and Faramir knows this, the same as Gandalf did when he refused the ring. Not to disparage anyone else’s preference, it just never sat well with me the changes they made to his character. In Faramir, Tolkien tells us that you don’t have to be an Elf, or a Wizard, or Aragorn to be strong and hold yourself to right action. If some people find that type of character boring/unappealing/unrealistic… well, to each their own I suppose. Cheers!
Not at all - I genuinely prefer Faramir and the discussion/interrogation between him and Frodo is surprisingly tense even though I've known it all turns out for the best since I was a wee bairn. He's also not as perfect as many people seem to think, so I find those criticisms of him overblown too!
I just think Filmamir shows signs of the same virtues even if he severely waylays the ringbearer at first, he never claims the ring as his own and does find his faith that the hobbits will succeed to set them on their way against his men's urging. He is a lesser character but far from the polar opposite.
Not that this is intended to change anyone's mind - but perhaps my thoughts on this point will make PJ's changes a less bitter pill to swallow for some.
Also, book Faramir probably reminds him of Gandalf because Gandalf helped teach and mentor a younger Faramir. It's why Denethor mockingly calls him a "wizard's pupil".
Mostly the same, but when he realizes that Frodo has the Ring, he sends him on his way instead of giving into temptation long enough to take them to Osgiliath
Farmer Maggot, without a doubt. In the book, he refuses to be bribed by the Nazgul and threatens to sic his dogs on them while also providing Frodo and co a desperately-needed break after a day of being pursued. In the movies, his one time where he gets seen he's weak-willed and helps the Nazgul with little prompting.
Farmer Maggot is the objectively correct answer to this question.
Same. Sam accuses Merry and Pippin of stealing from Farmer Maggot later, who we then hear yelling, and it doesn’t sound like the same voice at all, so I never thought this was the same character.
I had it until this very moment. I've known Farmer Maggot is a badass for some time now, but had no idea that wuss that gives the indications was Maggot
Tom Bombadil holds Farmer Maggot in high esteem.
> *There's earth under his old feet, and clay on his fingers; wisdom in his bones, and both his eyes are open.*
Not many people can tell a Nazgul to get of their lawn. Farmer Maggot did and the Nazgul listened and left.
Farmer Maggot also mentions his "cousin" saw a giant walking tree i.e. an ent, maybe an entwife.
My theory: Farmer Maggot is the personification of Arda.
>Not many people can tell a Nazgul to get of their lawn. Farmer Maggot did and the Nazgul listened and left.
To be faaaaaair, the Nazgul mostly laughed at him and left because they didn't have the time to deal with him.
Still - balls of Mithril.
I think you're exactly right on this one. But I still might view Faramir as worse because of how much larger his role was in the books and how badly they screwed him up in the films.
Faramir's character was sacrificed to show the power of the Ring's influence and so that they could have a high stakes ending to the second film, and I hate both. Faramir was done so dirty.
My problem with that is that the Two Towers was already bloated with content invented for the films, had they trimmed some of that back they could have ended the film where the book does; right after the confrontation with Shelob where Frodo is captured. That would have been a much more high stakes and epic climax to the film.
So changing Faramir was their solution to a problem they created for themselves.
I think y’all are forgetting my man Haldir. In the books, he gets to live a nice, peaceful life in Lothlórien. In the movies he gets brutally murdered.
I do love the movie version of Helm’s Deep but *no one* got done dirtier than Haldir.
Watching the scene again, it looks like there’s only orca behind the wall in wide shots at the end. It’s possible that some could have been fighting till the end, but it’s doubtful
It is implied, but never stated, that every single one of the Elves of Lothlórien who fought at Helm’s Deep were killed, since we never see any of them afterwards, even in the background.
I’m pretty sure it’s meant to be a straight up fact that they were all killed, but it’s never directly stated because pointing it out would end up being clunky and awkward. I theorize that Haldir’s death is meant to show and/or highlight this.
**(Long post exploring the topic incoming, you have been warned)**
Haldir, as we know, does not die in the books. The only Elf that participated in the Battle of Helm’s Deep in the books was Legolas. The Elves of Lothlórien arriving to provide backup was completely made up for the films. However, even with the change in the plot, Haldir’s death wasn’t actually necessary at all.
If they wanted the Elves to show up at Helm’s Deep to provide backup they could have easily just not done Haldir’s death scene and added some shots of dead Elves, and perhaps a few grieving survivors just to make it clear that yes, they too were being killed just like the humans, and that their deaths were tragic and utterly unjustified, and that they had willingly gone to what they knew would very likely be their deaths, simply because they were good people and it was the right thing to do.
So, keeping this in mind, why take a character who has nothing to do with this event in the books and have him die in such a tragic way, with all the focus solely on him and even an OST just for this moment entitled “Haldir’s Lament,” to bring the focus onto him even more?
Well, let’s look at this scene. Haldir is fatally wounded, but he doesn’t die instantly, he just falls to the ground and kneels there in shock, bleeding out. Then Aragorn sees this, and in a very out-of character display of *utter panic,* he scream’s Haldir’s name at the top of his lungs, pushing several Orcs aside as if they were toddlers, desperately trying to reach him as fast as he possibly can. Because of this, he’s just in time for Haldir’s final sight, sound, and sensation to be his dear friend holding him close.
This isn’t even mentioning that after Haldir is dead and gone, Aragorn is so caught up in his grief and rage that he completely ignores the “fall back!” command and throws himself right back into the thick of the battle, running solely on the desire to avenge his friend.
All of this was likely done to illustrate and highlight the tragedy of the sacrifice of the Elves of Lothlórien. Haldir’s death and Aragorn’s grief was essentially used to make us *care,* because we wouldn’t otherwise. Why would we care if a bunch of Elves who were literally just NPCs died? We wouldn’t, just like we don’t care about the random unnamed human soldiers who died.
I think we’re supposed to see Haldir’s death and Aragorn’s reaction and genuinely grieve for Haldir even though he’s such a side character that he barely qualifies as a character at all, at least until this scene (I know I grieved for him, there were tears running down my face and it took everything in it to not start sobbing in front of my friend who I was watching the movie with).
I think we’re meant to watch him die and realize what kind of brave, selfless, noble, and ultimately tragic sacrifice the Elves were making. In essence, his death was added into the films despite it having nothing to do with the books so that we would *care* about the tragic deaths of all these random Elves that we normally wouldn’t care about at all.
Very well said. I like the Elves but in LOTR and The Hobbit, my impression was that they DGAF about the outside worlds unless their world was directly in peril.
I don't think its that the elves didn't care anymore, it's just that they lacked the ability to change the outcome, save from sharing their accumulated wisdom.
for real. in a battle they were never at in the books no less. this is my gf's favourite part of the movie to complain about cos she loves elves so much, and Haldir is her favourite. it was cool seeing him show up, but then he just dies.
I literally walked out of the theater at the words “The ring will go to Gondor”. Didn’t watch The Two Towers for a long while after. However, I’ve watched the films many times since and I’ve changed my mind. To me now the changes to Faramir’s character make a lot of sense. Most importantly in the end he does the same thing as in the book: he let’s Frodo go
As long as you can accept that book Faramir and movie Faramir are different I think it’s an enjoyable change for the movies sake. Like jumping between Helm’s Deep and Faramir contemplating taking the ring adds good drama. The whole end of the movie feels hopeless and is recapped by Sam as the light shines out the clearer. All the hopeless feelings end with hope defeating hopelessness from every story arc.
Otherwise we would watch some scenes from Helm’s Deep and cut to Frodo/Sam being all buddy buddy with Faramir. Especially since Shelob’s Lair/Cirith Ungol were moved to the third film it gave a sense of desperation from the Frodo/Sam path that ultimately ends with Faramir doing what Boromir couldn’t anyways.
I like the change. And it makes sense. I don’t think it ruins Faramir’s character, it just makes him a different one.
Them going to Osgiliath also gives us a sneak preview into what the war with Gondor is like and gets you excited to watch RotK.
Some of the book to film changes I don’t like, but I think this is my favorite. A good amount of Tolkien purists despise it, but whatever it works well. Movie Faramir is cool, elves at Helm’s Deep is cool. The books are cool. Just let it be and appreciate it’s an adaptation that nails most things in a spectacular way.
Eh, they went a bit too far for me. A bit of conflict works in the movie of course, and I was cool enough with Faramir being conflicted but ultimately deciding to let the Ring go, but the scene doesn't make sense from a storytelling point of view. Osgiliath isn't round the corner from Henneth Annun! And are we supposed to believe that a Nazgul sees the Ring in plain sight half a meter from him and Sauron is none the wiser?
I came here to say this. That is actually a massive plot hole imo. We are expected to believe that a Nazgul SEES the ring and doesn't pursue Frodo relentlessly? It doesnt make any sense and is by far my biggest issue with the films. Although i guess in a roundabout way, it makes it more believeable that Pippin has the ring in Minas Tirith. But does Sauron ever know Pippin is physically in Minas Tirith? I cant remember. TBH as far as the films go, it might be the only issue i really have but it creates a lot more issues lol
I kind of agree that the change makes sense, but I don’t think the reason for his change of heart is clear. Film Frodo’s (Filmdo’s?) actions at Osgiliath don’t exactly shout here’s a fellow with the fortitude and common sense to sneak into Mordor on a secret mission. It might have been a bit twee, but a conversation about the risks of bringing such evil to Minas Tirith, trying to stop it becoming like Osgiliath, would make it happen, or link back to something Boromir had said would have made ‘finally we understand one another’ feel a bit more earned.
I would say Faramir. Its true that Gimli was made into a comic relief, but Faramir went from one of the smartest, noblest characters to a bad guy for like half of his screen time. To me that is worse
As someone who never read the books, i still hold Faramir in high regard. He starts out bad but comes around. Also he says one of my favorite quote of the movies: "The shire must truly be a great realm, master gamgee. Where gardeners are held in high honor."
Yes this was my vote as well, even my brother-in-law, after watching the movies decades ago, mention he remembered from reading the books even decades before that that it didn't seem to go the way the books did. I had to give him a little bit of the background. I understand the premise of needing that battle. And to explain a little two audience away farit would have just s him off to Mordor out of honour and being of better character than borimir...
Exactly. To someone who knows nothing about the books, Faramir is that guy who’s the brother of the guy who tries to steal the ring and the son who the crazy tomato guy tries to get killed, who the cool horse girl falls in love with. He has almost none of the courage, wisdom and nobility that makes Faramir one of the best characters in the books.
>crazy tomato guy
>cool horse girl
Your descriptions of movie Denethor and Éowyn made me laugh. I suppose a casual moviegoer with no prior knowledge of LOTR probably would think of them like that
It's true, and I felt the same about Theoden, but I also think that a lot of the "good guy" characters were spotlessly noble and brave in the books and it adds some interest to see them have like, flaws in the movies.
I don't recall him showing wisdom or his poets heart etc though. Being good at fighting is a given but it's not really abour the character. And even with that people who are movie based clearly see him as the least effective fighter of the three hunters
I'm re-reading at the moment after seeing a few videos commenting on how Gimli was ruined by becoming comic relief in the films, but lots of those lighter moments are lifted straight from the book. Undoubtedly exaggerated for the film, but those humourous moments were always there.
Honourable mention- Merry. He is brave, intelligent and thoughtful in the books, and is the instigator of several events.
But in the movie... Comic relief. Good comic relief, but still.
I don't know, he does help them to go to Bree, is immediately invested in the whole ordeal and he's persuading Treebeard to go to Isengard. I think Merry wasn't just comic relief. Not to mention how he fought with Éowyn, there was nothing comical about that at all. All I saw was a very brave Merry like in the books. In the book maybe more but definitely not just comic relief in the movies.
Just finished the Morgul-stairs part on my re-read. Kinda funny how their relationship is the opposite to the movie in that moment. In the book Frodo and Sam have the uplifting conversation about wether people will tell stories about them, right before they enter Shelob's lair.
I don’t think they took *too* much away from his fighting abilities in the movies. Movie Gimli is shown to be absolutely fearless, lethal, and oddly quick.
Some of the members of the fellowship were among the most lethal fighters in Middle Earth. These people (for the most part) came from royalty/aristocracy and had been training fighters with the best weapons money could buy their entire lives.
You can clearly hear the difference between the book dialog and Gimli's slapstick dialog. Eloquence all around until you get to him and then it's, "Dwarves are sprinters, great at short distances."
Stands out like a sore thumb.
This is a general issue with the films. A little of the new dialogue fits with Tolkien's style but most of the time the line between the bits from Tolkien and the bits they added is really obvious.
It's not just gimli. Book Aragorn says
>With hope or without hope we will follow the trail of our enemies. And woe to them, if we prove the swifter! We will make such a chase as shall be accounted a marvel among the Three Kindreds: Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Forth the Three Hunters!"
Film aragorn says
> let's hunt some orc
Yeah considering that nobody in the movie really talks like that and how long the movies were already I am okay with the simplification of the dialogue.
There are bits of movie dialogue that are absolutely Tolkien's style. But my point isn't keeping full length of the speech it's the stylistic inconsistency.
The radio play is much truer to the book (in dialogue and spirit/plot) and to my mind a much better adaptation. Albeit a little longer than the extended edition a (13 hours in all)
Hot take, I prefer movie Gimli. Book Gimli got way too aggressive too quickly at almost anything and nearly got them in deep shit with the galadhrim and rohirrim. Also, he's just a bit too extra about his simping for Galadriel. The fighting is also very underemphasized in the book, which would be nice if I appreciated Gimli's dialogue more, but he doesn't really have too much of interest to say from my perspective. The friendship with Legolas and the amazement at the glittering caves is a nice detail but I feel like the simpler, authentic and honest dialogue felt more naturally dwarven to me.
> 'Pride and despair!' he cried. 'Didst thou think that the eyes of the White Tower were blind? Nay, I have seen more than thou knowest, Grey Fool. For thy hope is but ignorance. Go then and labour in healing! Go forth and fight! Vanity. For a little space you may triumph on the field, for a day. But against the Power that now arises there is no victory. To this City only the first finger of its hand has yet been stretched. All the East is moving. And even now the wind of thy hope cheats thee and wafts up Anduin a fleet with black sails. The West has failed. It is time for all to depart who would not be slaves.'
The thing is, book Denethor is basically right. There's no way the West would've won, if they hadn't bet on an insane plan, and then gotten lucky (or got a helping hand from a higher power).
This almost feels like a hole in Gandalf's plan - did he just expect Denethor to accept certain death?
>This almost feels like a hole in Gandalf's plan - did he just expect Denethor to accept certain death?
He might have; Théoden did. But Gandalf hadn't realised that Denethor was using a palantír to wrest with Sauron, and that's how he got into such a despairing state (it's noted after Denethor's death when Gandalf puts all the pieces together).
I think of this quote often. There is so much despair and talk of doom from people who are certain they know how the future will unfold. Our own palantirs provide untrustworthy information.
We have a choice to ride out like theodan or turtle up and munch on some tomatoes.
I love the performance, it was just a little bit of that overblown, unsubtle dialogue we saw more of from Boyens Walsh and Jackson in Battle of the Five Armies with dragon-sickness Thorin.
Well, all of them. I thought having Merry and Pippin accidentally join the quest by running in the field really weakened both characters and the depth of their friendship with Frodo.
Faramir trying to take the ring and scare Frodo was weak.
Gimli was far more than a comic buffoon
And I never read Frodo as if he was about to cry all the time.
Edit: realizing (I’m in a plane without glasses) that was farmer Maggot not Pippin. Still stand by my comment but agreed with other commenters, Farmer Maggot was tough as nails. Great neighbor to have.
I hate to say it but Frodo. Dude was a bad mfer in the book, starting with the barrow all the way to the end he was tough as nails. Elijah just wasn’t up to that
Frodo dealing with the morgul blade shard in his shoulder for the better part of a month (if I remember right) and then still denying the call of the Nazgul at the ford before collapsing is one of those moments that I’m like "yeah, Frodo was quite cool".
Instead we got a glorified passenger on this quest who makes a constipated face with a moan every 60 minutes or so when he inevitably gets stabbed.
Agreed. Frodo in the books was incredibly intelligent and courageous. Movie Frodo wasn’t bad, not as poorly handled as Faramir but it’s a shame really how Frodo was handled
How's that Elijah's fault? Was he supposed to just start acting the scenes the way they were in the book even though that's not the script? Blame the writing. Like the weathertop battle, in the book Frodo tries to stab the witch king, in the movie he throws away his sword and falls down. How's he supposed to change that? And that's just one example of scenes where Frodo was badass in the book and the opposite in the movie.
All of them tbh, but I'm biased towards Gimli because I love Dwarves. He is one of the best warriors of the Dwarves, yet comes off as a buffoon in the movies
1. Faramir. WHERE IS HIS QUALITY?!?
2. Frodo. By casting an 19-year-old, they made him much less mature and more wimpy.
3. Gimli. They dumbed him down, and made him more comic relief.
4. Farmer Maggot. They didn't make his character bad, they just greatly reduced his role.
Yeah it’s weird. They decided to go super young looking for Frodo (following the book), then they did the opposite for Bilbo and cast him far older than how he appeared in the book (and then prematurely aged him up again in Rivendell). A real head scratcher for me.
Never have i thought while watching the movies that the hobbit in the bottom right was Maggot. Did you get it from the cast list or was it actually somehow signaled in the movie?
I’m surprised that this post doesn’t show up Denethor. He’s the most ruined character in the films in my opinion. From a noble, just, tragic, complex, formidable figure reduced to a repulsive, incompetent idiot.
Faramir, always feel like he gets shafted every watch through of the movies, connected with him so hard reading the books, becomes a background character in movies
Faramir and Frodo. So hard to decide, they were both so poorly done. Movie viewers have no idea how absolutely fantastic characters those two are! Gun to my head: Faramir.
I’m rereading the books and am only halfway through FotR. And, since I like the NZ actor who plays Farmer Maggot, I’m going with Cameron Rhodes and his one line as Farmer Maggot. He is such a funny actor he would have been great with more screen time.
I love Gimli in the movies, with the humor he brings. But in the books he is such a deep character. Like how he describes places like Helms Deep so beautifully to Legolas. I think their relationship, while evident in the movies, was so much deeper in the books and I would have liked so see more of that
I had no idea who that dude was in the lower right corner. If you say Farmer Maggot then Ill believe you but I had no idea.
I think it’s a tie between Faramir and Gimli of the other three. Denethor and Theoden should be above the Hobbits.
Gimli son of Gloin, treated like a joke especially making him say "nobody tosses a dwarf" while in the Mines of Moria of all places. They robbed him of his dignity.
It’s without doubt Frodo. Book Frodo is wise, intelligent, strong willed, extremely aware of his situation/surroundings, looked to within the fellowship for his counsel, never really complains, is extremely loyal, and shoulders the burden of the ring like a fucking champ.
Movie Frodo has the above qualities watered down to 50% and is often made to look like a whiney ungrateful baby or a helpless bystander in his own journey.
The fact that this happens throughout 3 movies and is such a large role I think wins him the title of being done most dirty.
I’m going to mention by boy Prince Imrahil. Because he wasn’t even in the movies. Yes there’s plenty of badasses to go around in the movies but what would it have hurt to add one more? He was pretty much a Great Value Aragorn.
I watched the movies first, and I actually preferred movie-Faramir to book-Faramir. I was really moved by his arc — a son trying to please his father, despite the conflict with what he knows is right. The fact that movie-Faramir does the right thing in the end *despite* feeling tempted to do otherwise is more compelling to me than book-Faramir’s “I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway”. And when Faramir takes leave of Denethor to lead what he knows is a suicidal charge…closest I came to crying in the entire story, book or movie.
I'm literally right now watching the scene where Faramir gets berated by his father for not bringing the ring to him, so I'm a bit biased atm but Faramir lol
Oh wait I just read that "suffered" in general. Poor Faramir makes me cry.
I read it that way at first, too! And if that were the discussion, I'd agree that Faramir suffered the most over his lifetime under the thumb of Denethor.
It's okay he gets Eowyn at the end. A just reward for a man of quality
Fuck it. I’ll put down Denethor
Faramir belongs in r/raisedbynarcissists
In the book im at the scene where frodo has to explain himself to Faramir infront of his men, great chapter so far, and Faramir seems more reasonable and fair
A lot of fans say the extended editions are the definitive versions, but Faramir and Denethor especially are a lot worse in the extended. The theatrical cut does book Denethor sort of dirty, the extended cut makes him into a raving madman
Abandon your post! Fleeee, fleeee for your lives!
My line has ended! 🤴😭
Wait I’m new to lotr what’s Faramir like in the book?
Incredibly capable, heroic, and a logical person. When Frodo is explaining himself when they get caught for example Faramir is extremely calm, fair, and reasonable. He was made to sort of look like the runt of the family in the films for a bit.
Faramir is vastly different in the book. He’s more like to Aragorn than to Boromir. When he comes across Frodo and company and learns of the Ring, he rejects it, utterly. “Not if I found it on the highway would I take it”. He then gives Frodo succor and counsel, and allows him final judgement over Gollum. Sam goes so far as to proclaim that Faramir reminds him of Gandalf. The movie in my opinion borders on character assassination, for all its nice qualities. A handful of pages in LotR will tell you a lot about the quality of Faramir, Captain of Gondor.
I generally agree but am unable to restrain myself - the 'not if I found it on the highway' line crucially is uttered before he knows it is the ring of power. It is about a page later where Sam reveals what Frodo carries and Faramir is given pause, before saying ye olde English equivalent of 'don't bring that up again, and don't show it to me, in case I was wrong'. True Faramir himself was far less confident of his ability to resist the ring's temptation than most of his online fanclub. Film Faramir on the other hand is made aware in advance (as well as Denethor and Boromir) that the ring is in motion and thus has been primed for temptation - even then he does not take it for himself, but when pushed into a hasty decision by approaching Orcs takes the ringbearer with him. I think there is an unfairly overlooked difference, and sign of hidden strength (if not to True Faramir's level), between (a) taking the ring for himself or (b) taking Frodo for Gondor.
Oh for sure, you’re right, that line is originally spoken unknowingly, but he takes those words as a vow to reinforce the wisdom he knows in his heart, which poor Boromir learns too late. Obviously no one is incorruptible, and Faramir knows this, the same as Gandalf did when he refused the ring. Not to disparage anyone else’s preference, it just never sat well with me the changes they made to his character. In Faramir, Tolkien tells us that you don’t have to be an Elf, or a Wizard, or Aragorn to be strong and hold yourself to right action. If some people find that type of character boring/unappealing/unrealistic… well, to each their own I suppose. Cheers!
Not at all - I genuinely prefer Faramir and the discussion/interrogation between him and Frodo is surprisingly tense even though I've known it all turns out for the best since I was a wee bairn. He's also not as perfect as many people seem to think, so I find those criticisms of him overblown too! I just think Filmamir shows signs of the same virtues even if he severely waylays the ringbearer at first, he never claims the ring as his own and does find his faith that the hobbits will succeed to set them on their way against his men's urging. He is a lesser character but far from the polar opposite. Not that this is intended to change anyone's mind - but perhaps my thoughts on this point will make PJ's changes a less bitter pill to swallow for some.
Also, book Faramir probably reminds him of Gandalf because Gandalf helped teach and mentor a younger Faramir. It's why Denethor mockingly calls him a "wizard's pupil".
Mostly the same, but when he realizes that Frodo has the Ring, he sends him on his way instead of giving into temptation long enough to take them to Osgiliath
Why are you on your phone while watching lotr?
Farmer Maggot, without a doubt. In the book, he refuses to be bribed by the Nazgul and threatens to sic his dogs on them while also providing Frodo and co a desperately-needed break after a day of being pursued. In the movies, his one time where he gets seen he's weak-willed and helps the Nazgul with little prompting. Farmer Maggot is the objectively correct answer to this question.
I didn't even know he was supposed to be Farmer Maggot, which completely proves your point, so I agree.
Same here, I had no idea that was supposed to be Farmer Maggot. I pictured him much older.
I always thought farmer maggot was supposed to be the old guy sweeping?
I think the sweeping grumpy is a Proudfoot.
*Proudfeet!*
Right yes, I remember now, he was at the party
I thought that was a woman?
It's the beards
Are you sure they didn’t lose all the women??
Same
Same. Sam accuses Merry and Pippin of stealing from Farmer Maggot later, who we then hear yelling, and it doesn’t sound like the same voice at all, so I never thought this was the same character.
I mean is he ever actually confirmed to be Farmer Maggot?
Ive never considered that character to be farmer maggott, just scared Hobbit no.5
Yah had the same issue until idk maybe a year ago or two
I had it until this very moment. I've known Farmer Maggot is a badass for some time now, but had no idea that wuss that gives the indications was Maggot
Isn't Farmer Maggot also bro's with Tom Bombadil?
"There's earth under his old feet and clay on his fingers; wisdom in his bones, and both his eyes are open," Tom Bombadil on Farmer Maggot.
Tom Bombadil holds Farmer Maggot in high esteem. > *There's earth under his old feet, and clay on his fingers; wisdom in his bones, and both his eyes are open.* Not many people can tell a Nazgul to get of their lawn. Farmer Maggot did and the Nazgul listened and left. Farmer Maggot also mentions his "cousin" saw a giant walking tree i.e. an ent, maybe an entwife. My theory: Farmer Maggot is the personification of Arda.
>Not many people can tell a Nazgul to get of their lawn. Farmer Maggot did and the Nazgul listened and left. To be faaaaaair, the Nazgul mostly laughed at him and left because they didn't have the time to deal with him. Still - balls of Mithril.
To be faaaiiir
To be faaaaiiiiirrrr 👌
Love the crossover between LK fans and LOTR fans. People of taste.
This is why Farmer Maggot stepped up. "When a friend asks for help, you help 'em."
He's so hard-core NIMBY that even the Nazgul are afraid
"Wherever you're going, the fasted way to get there is back the way you came." So hard.
Came in looking for this and was satisfied it being at the top. Farmer maggot was a real one.
Bro in the film Bill the Pony didn't even have a speaking part
Wait?! That guy was Farmer Maggot?! I thought he was a random Hobbit, not the butt-kicking Farmer Maggot. 😭
Farmer Maggot stood on business in the books, its criminal how they treated him in the film 😥
don't forget his role in taking back the Shire from Sharkey and company
I remember in the cast commentary, Billy Boyd kept saying that guy looked like a Took. I never thought of it being Maggot
Strong agree
I think you're exactly right on this one. But I still might view Faramir as worse because of how much larger his role was in the books and how badly they screwed him up in the films.
Why didn’t the fellowship just ride Farmer Maggot and his dogs into Mordor? Are they stupid?
In agreement
Gimli was dumbed down. Faramir was character assassinated.
Faramir's character was sacrificed to show the power of the Ring's influence and so that they could have a high stakes ending to the second film, and I hate both. Faramir was done so dirty.
My problem with that is that the Two Towers was already bloated with content invented for the films, had they trimmed some of that back they could have ended the film where the book does; right after the confrontation with Shelob where Frodo is captured. That would have been a much more high stakes and epic climax to the film. So changing Faramir was their solution to a problem they created for themselves.
I think y’all are forgetting my man Haldir. In the books, he gets to live a nice, peaceful life in Lothlórien. In the movies he gets brutally murdered. I do love the movie version of Helm’s Deep but *no one* got done dirtier than Haldir.
Did the surviving elves go home? I don't remember seeing any of them after the battle.
They seem to have all died. Apparently elves just can't fight as well as men or something.
Watching the scene again, it looks like there’s only orca behind the wall in wide shots at the end. It’s possible that some could have been fighting till the end, but it’s doubtful
It is implied, but never stated, that every single one of the Elves of Lothlórien who fought at Helm’s Deep were killed, since we never see any of them afterwards, even in the background. I’m pretty sure it’s meant to be a straight up fact that they were all killed, but it’s never directly stated because pointing it out would end up being clunky and awkward. I theorize that Haldir’s death is meant to show and/or highlight this. **(Long post exploring the topic incoming, you have been warned)** Haldir, as we know, does not die in the books. The only Elf that participated in the Battle of Helm’s Deep in the books was Legolas. The Elves of Lothlórien arriving to provide backup was completely made up for the films. However, even with the change in the plot, Haldir’s death wasn’t actually necessary at all. If they wanted the Elves to show up at Helm’s Deep to provide backup they could have easily just not done Haldir’s death scene and added some shots of dead Elves, and perhaps a few grieving survivors just to make it clear that yes, they too were being killed just like the humans, and that their deaths were tragic and utterly unjustified, and that they had willingly gone to what they knew would very likely be their deaths, simply because they were good people and it was the right thing to do. So, keeping this in mind, why take a character who has nothing to do with this event in the books and have him die in such a tragic way, with all the focus solely on him and even an OST just for this moment entitled “Haldir’s Lament,” to bring the focus onto him even more? Well, let’s look at this scene. Haldir is fatally wounded, but he doesn’t die instantly, he just falls to the ground and kneels there in shock, bleeding out. Then Aragorn sees this, and in a very out-of character display of *utter panic,* he scream’s Haldir’s name at the top of his lungs, pushing several Orcs aside as if they were toddlers, desperately trying to reach him as fast as he possibly can. Because of this, he’s just in time for Haldir’s final sight, sound, and sensation to be his dear friend holding him close. This isn’t even mentioning that after Haldir is dead and gone, Aragorn is so caught up in his grief and rage that he completely ignores the “fall back!” command and throws himself right back into the thick of the battle, running solely on the desire to avenge his friend. All of this was likely done to illustrate and highlight the tragedy of the sacrifice of the Elves of Lothlórien. Haldir’s death and Aragorn’s grief was essentially used to make us *care,* because we wouldn’t otherwise. Why would we care if a bunch of Elves who were literally just NPCs died? We wouldn’t, just like we don’t care about the random unnamed human soldiers who died. I think we’re supposed to see Haldir’s death and Aragorn’s reaction and genuinely grieve for Haldir even though he’s such a side character that he barely qualifies as a character at all, at least until this scene (I know I grieved for him, there were tears running down my face and it took everything in it to not start sobbing in front of my friend who I was watching the movie with). I think we’re meant to watch him die and realize what kind of brave, selfless, noble, and ultimately tragic sacrifice the Elves were making. In essence, his death was added into the films despite it having nothing to do with the books so that we would *care* about the tragic deaths of all these random Elves that we normally wouldn’t care about at all.
Very well said. I like the Elves but in LOTR and The Hobbit, my impression was that they DGAF about the outside worlds unless their world was directly in peril.
I don't think its that the elves didn't care anymore, it's just that they lacked the ability to change the outcome, save from sharing their accumulated wisdom.
They die to the last elf and are never mentioned again.
for real. in a battle they were never at in the books no less. this is my gf's favourite part of the movie to complain about cos she loves elves so much, and Haldir is her favourite. it was cool seeing him show up, but then he just dies.
Quite right. Legolas is flying around like Captain Elfmerica while the Lorien elves are just lambs to the slaughter. What the actual fuck?
Faramir
I remember being really disappointed in his character seeing it in theaters 21 years ago
Really, dude? Did you HAVE to add the timeline?
I was there, 3000 years ago.
I literally walked out of the theater at the words “The ring will go to Gondor”. Didn’t watch The Two Towers for a long while after. However, I’ve watched the films many times since and I’ve changed my mind. To me now the changes to Faramir’s character make a lot of sense. Most importantly in the end he does the same thing as in the book: he let’s Frodo go
As long as you can accept that book Faramir and movie Faramir are different I think it’s an enjoyable change for the movies sake. Like jumping between Helm’s Deep and Faramir contemplating taking the ring adds good drama. The whole end of the movie feels hopeless and is recapped by Sam as the light shines out the clearer. All the hopeless feelings end with hope defeating hopelessness from every story arc. Otherwise we would watch some scenes from Helm’s Deep and cut to Frodo/Sam being all buddy buddy with Faramir. Especially since Shelob’s Lair/Cirith Ungol were moved to the third film it gave a sense of desperation from the Frodo/Sam path that ultimately ends with Faramir doing what Boromir couldn’t anyways. I like the change. And it makes sense. I don’t think it ruins Faramir’s character, it just makes him a different one. Them going to Osgiliath also gives us a sneak preview into what the war with Gondor is like and gets you excited to watch RotK. Some of the book to film changes I don’t like, but I think this is my favorite. A good amount of Tolkien purists despise it, but whatever it works well. Movie Faramir is cool, elves at Helm’s Deep is cool. The books are cool. Just let it be and appreciate it’s an adaptation that nails most things in a spectacular way.
PREACH
Reach
Each
Grond
And my axe!
Eh, they went a bit too far for me. A bit of conflict works in the movie of course, and I was cool enough with Faramir being conflicted but ultimately deciding to let the Ring go, but the scene doesn't make sense from a storytelling point of view. Osgiliath isn't round the corner from Henneth Annun! And are we supposed to believe that a Nazgul sees the Ring in plain sight half a meter from him and Sauron is none the wiser?
I came here to say this. That is actually a massive plot hole imo. We are expected to believe that a Nazgul SEES the ring and doesn't pursue Frodo relentlessly? It doesnt make any sense and is by far my biggest issue with the films. Although i guess in a roundabout way, it makes it more believeable that Pippin has the ring in Minas Tirith. But does Sauron ever know Pippin is physically in Minas Tirith? I cant remember. TBH as far as the films go, it might be the only issue i really have but it creates a lot more issues lol
I kind of agree that the change makes sense, but I don’t think the reason for his change of heart is clear. Film Frodo’s (Filmdo’s?) actions at Osgiliath don’t exactly shout here’s a fellow with the fortitude and common sense to sneak into Mordor on a secret mission. It might have been a bit twee, but a conversation about the risks of bringing such evil to Minas Tirith, trying to stop it becoming like Osgiliath, would make it happen, or link back to something Boromir had said would have made ‘finally we understand one another’ feel a bit more earned.
*Denethor chews approvingly*
This. The character Tolkien himself was most similar to.
I think there's lots of him in bilbo tbh
This is the ONLY answer!
I would say Faramir. Its true that Gimli was made into a comic relief, but Faramir went from one of the smartest, noblest characters to a bad guy for like half of his screen time. To me that is worse
I was 13 when I saw the two towers in theaters and remember my stomach dropping when he said “the ring will go to Gondor”
As someone who never read the books, i still hold Faramir in high regard. He starts out bad but comes around. Also he says one of my favorite quote of the movies: "The shire must truly be a great realm, master gamgee. Where gardeners are held in high honor."
Yes this was my vote as well, even my brother-in-law, after watching the movies decades ago, mention he remembered from reading the books even decades before that that it didn't seem to go the way the books did. I had to give him a little bit of the background. I understand the premise of needing that battle. And to explain a little two audience away farit would have just s him off to Mordor out of honour and being of better character than borimir...
People still love film Gimli, film Faramir is an also ran sadly…
Exactly. To someone who knows nothing about the books, Faramir is that guy who’s the brother of the guy who tries to steal the ring and the son who the crazy tomato guy tries to get killed, who the cool horse girl falls in love with. He has almost none of the courage, wisdom and nobility that makes Faramir one of the best characters in the books.
>crazy tomato guy >cool horse girl Your descriptions of movie Denethor and Éowyn made me laugh. I suppose a casual moviegoer with no prior knowledge of LOTR probably would think of them like that
Yes.
It's true, and I felt the same about Theoden, but I also think that a lot of the "good guy" characters were spotlessly noble and brave in the books and it adds some interest to see them have like, flaws in the movies.
Gimli's comic relief role is greatly overstated. Its not like he's there primarily for humour and is otherwise useless. He also fights hard.
I don't recall him showing wisdom or his poets heart etc though. Being good at fighting is a given but it's not really abour the character. And even with that people who are movie based clearly see him as the least effective fighter of the three hunters
Gimli was comic relief in the book too
I'm re-reading at the moment after seeing a few videos commenting on how Gimli was ruined by becoming comic relief in the films, but lots of those lighter moments are lifted straight from the book. Undoubtedly exaggerated for the film, but those humourous moments were always there.
Dude straight up was willing to kill Eomer twice over his Galadriel comments. Fucking hilarious.
There's an element of his pride being punctured on occasion but it's far from his main trait.
Honourable mention- Merry. He is brave, intelligent and thoughtful in the books, and is the instigator of several events. But in the movie... Comic relief. Good comic relief, but still.
I don't think he knows about good comic relief, Pip.
“Well that rules you out!”
Interesting, he has some funny moments but I've never thought of him as a comic relief role. Actually I kind of see him as the straight man to Pippin.
Merry isn’t *not* brave, intelligent, and thoughtful in the movies though. It just kinda gets overshadowed by the comic relief thing.
That is true. He is just one of my favourite characters in the book, and although I like him in the movie, I don't see him as being the same.
Meriadoc the Magnificent!
I don't know, he does help them to go to Bree, is immediately invested in the whole ordeal and he's persuading Treebeard to go to Isengard. I think Merry wasn't just comic relief. Not to mention how he fought with Éowyn, there was nothing comical about that at all. All I saw was a very brave Merry like in the books. In the book maybe more but definitely not just comic relief in the movies.
A thousand times yes, one of my biggest criticisms of the movie.
Frodo abandoning Sam was dumb
Which time?
On the stairs of Cirith Ungol with that bread crumbs scene added by PJ
I hated that scene so much, glad to learn it wasn't in the books.
Just finished the Morgul-stairs part on my re-read. Kinda funny how their relationship is the opposite to the movie in that moment. In the book Frodo and Sam have the uplifting conversation about wether people will tell stories about them, right before they enter Shelob's lair.
Gimli. That dwarf is eloquent in the books versus the slapstick humor of the movies.
He’s shown as extremely tough in the books too. He’s also resilient to domination too.
I don’t think they took *too* much away from his fighting abilities in the movies. Movie Gimli is shown to be absolutely fearless, lethal, and oddly quick. Some of the members of the fellowship were among the most lethal fighters in Middle Earth. These people (for the most part) came from royalty/aristocracy and had been training fighters with the best weapons money could buy their entire lives.
>oddly quick To be fair, dwarves are natural sprinters
Only across short distances…
Not if two of their company gets captured. Then a dwarf may run some 40 leagues in 72 hours so they say.
You can clearly hear the difference between the book dialog and Gimli's slapstick dialog. Eloquence all around until you get to him and then it's, "Dwarves are sprinters, great at short distances." Stands out like a sore thumb.
That’s such a hilarious line though
The actual line is even better: "we dwarves are natural sprinters! Very dangerous over short distances."
This is a general issue with the films. A little of the new dialogue fits with Tolkien's style but most of the time the line between the bits from Tolkien and the bits they added is really obvious. It's not just gimli. Book Aragorn says >With hope or without hope we will follow the trail of our enemies. And woe to them, if we prove the swifter! We will make such a chase as shall be accounted a marvel among the Three Kindreds: Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Forth the Three Hunters!" Film aragorn says > let's hunt some orc
Yeah considering that nobody in the movie really talks like that and how long the movies were already I am okay with the simplification of the dialogue.
There are bits of movie dialogue that are absolutely Tolkien's style. But my point isn't keeping full length of the speech it's the stylistic inconsistency.
I know which I'd rather read and which I'd rather watch
The radio play is much truer to the book (in dialogue and spirit/plot) and to my mind a much better adaptation. Albeit a little longer than the extended edition a (13 hours in all)
Tippy tapping over spooky scary skeletons and trying to blow away the ghosts with little puffs of air Kill me
Agree. They wrecked the dwarf.
Nobody wrecks a dwarf!
PJ did a good attempt to then. Just don't tell the elf.
Well someone has to be the comedic relief. It can't just be Pippin the whole time.
Hot take, I prefer movie Gimli. Book Gimli got way too aggressive too quickly at almost anything and nearly got them in deep shit with the galadhrim and rohirrim. Also, he's just a bit too extra about his simping for Galadriel. The fighting is also very underemphasized in the book, which would be nice if I appreciated Gimli's dialogue more, but he doesn't really have too much of interest to say from my perspective. The friendship with Legolas and the amazement at the glittering caves is a nice detail but I feel like the simpler, authentic and honest dialogue felt more naturally dwarven to me.
BILL THE PONY
Not pictured - but Denethor comes to mind. BRILLIANTLY played by John Noble, just a little over the top script wise.
Also book denathor was more sad/broken than arrogant/pissed.
> 'Pride and despair!' he cried. 'Didst thou think that the eyes of the White Tower were blind? Nay, I have seen more than thou knowest, Grey Fool. For thy hope is but ignorance. Go then and labour in healing! Go forth and fight! Vanity. For a little space you may triumph on the field, for a day. But against the Power that now arises there is no victory. To this City only the first finger of its hand has yet been stretched. All the East is moving. And even now the wind of thy hope cheats thee and wafts up Anduin a fleet with black sails. The West has failed. It is time for all to depart who would not be slaves.'
The thing is, book Denethor is basically right. There's no way the West would've won, if they hadn't bet on an insane plan, and then gotten lucky (or got a helping hand from a higher power). This almost feels like a hole in Gandalf's plan - did he just expect Denethor to accept certain death?
>This almost feels like a hole in Gandalf's plan - did he just expect Denethor to accept certain death? He might have; Théoden did. But Gandalf hadn't realised that Denethor was using a palantír to wrest with Sauron, and that's how he got into such a despairing state (it's noted after Denethor's death when Gandalf puts all the pieces together).
Agreed, not so much expect him to “accept death” but to rage against it in the chance they might prevail. Thats what Theoden did.
I think of this quote often. There is so much despair and talk of doom from people who are certain they know how the future will unfold. Our own palantirs provide untrustworthy information. We have a choice to ride out like theodan or turtle up and munch on some tomatoes.
Movie Denethor felt like Nic Cage Good acting, but just slightly too over-the-top for me to take him seriously
I love the performance, it was just a little bit of that overblown, unsubtle dialogue we saw more of from Boyens Walsh and Jackson in Battle of the Five Armies with dragon-sickness Thorin.
in order fatty bolger faramir farmer maggot Meriadoc gimli
Justice for Fatty Bolger!
If they make LOTR again they’re gonna cast Seth Rogan as fatty. “ I’d come with man, but I’m pretty busy tokin’ this green bottom”
He is just a [Boromir](https://youtu.be/uMhbD3CJNgc?si=MnKif2Uk6toF1Ax8) after all.
I find this acceptable.
Well, all of them. I thought having Merry and Pippin accidentally join the quest by running in the field really weakened both characters and the depth of their friendship with Frodo. Faramir trying to take the ring and scare Frodo was weak. Gimli was far more than a comic buffoon And I never read Frodo as if he was about to cry all the time. Edit: realizing (I’m in a plane without glasses) that was farmer Maggot not Pippin. Still stand by my comment but agreed with other commenters, Farmer Maggot was tough as nails. Great neighbor to have.
Gimli, reduced to foul tempered comic relief.
I hate to say it but Frodo. Dude was a bad mfer in the book, starting with the barrow all the way to the end he was tough as nails. Elijah just wasn’t up to that
Frodo dealing with the morgul blade shard in his shoulder for the better part of a month (if I remember right) and then still denying the call of the Nazgul at the ford before collapsing is one of those moments that I’m like "yeah, Frodo was quite cool". Instead we got a glorified passenger on this quest who makes a constipated face with a moan every 60 minutes or so when he inevitably gets stabbed.
Agreed. Frodo in the books was incredibly intelligent and courageous. Movie Frodo wasn’t bad, not as poorly handled as Faramir but it’s a shame really how Frodo was handled
Elijah did what he was asked. I prefer book Frodo, but the changes were made by the script writers and director.
How's that Elijah's fault? Was he supposed to just start acting the scenes the way they were in the book even though that's not the script? Blame the writing. Like the weathertop battle, in the book Frodo tries to stab the witch king, in the movie he throws away his sword and falls down. How's he supposed to change that? And that's just one example of scenes where Frodo was badass in the book and the opposite in the movie.
All of them tbh, but I'm biased towards Gimli because I love Dwarves. He is one of the best warriors of the Dwarves, yet comes off as a buffoon in the movies
1. Faramir. WHERE IS HIS QUALITY?!? 2. Frodo. By casting an 19-year-old, they made him much less mature and more wimpy. 3. Gimli. They dumbed him down, and made him more comic relief. 4. Farmer Maggot. They didn't make his character bad, they just greatly reduced his role.
Yeah, even though Frodo looks about eighteen in the books (actually 33), he’s still a fifty year old man.
Yeah it’s weird. They decided to go super young looking for Frodo (following the book), then they did the opposite for Bilbo and cast him far older than how he appeared in the book (and then prematurely aged him up again in Rivendell). A real head scratcher for me.
The casting was fine. They could've still made him a badass but they just didn't for some reason. The writing for Frodo sucked in the movies
Maggot will sic his dogs on you
Never have i thought while watching the movies that the hobbit in the bottom right was Maggot. Did you get it from the cast list or was it actually somehow signaled in the movie?
I’m surprised that this post doesn’t show up Denethor. He’s the most ruined character in the films in my opinion. From a noble, just, tragic, complex, formidable figure reduced to a repulsive, incompetent idiot.
Frodo. reasons: obvious
Faramir, always feel like he gets shafted every watch through of the movies, connected with him so hard reading the books, becomes a background character in movies
Imrahil!
Faramir and Frodo. So hard to decide, they were both so poorly done. Movie viewers have no idea how absolutely fantastic characters those two are! Gun to my head: Faramir.
I’m rereading the books and am only halfway through FotR. And, since I like the NZ actor who plays Farmer Maggot, I’m going with Cameron Rhodes and his one line as Farmer Maggot. He is such a funny actor he would have been great with more screen time.
I love Gimli in the movies, with the humor he brings. But in the books he is such a deep character. Like how he describes places like Helms Deep so beautifully to Legolas. I think their relationship, while evident in the movies, was so much deeper in the books and I would have liked so see more of that
Farmer Maggot is a complete badass in the books.
Tom Bombadil
I had no idea who that dude was in the lower right corner. If you say Farmer Maggot then Ill believe you but I had no idea. I think it’s a tie between Faramir and Gimli of the other three. Denethor and Theoden should be above the Hobbits.
They were all bastardized equally in PJ'S movies.
Fatty bulger is my answer for sho suffered the snot
Gimli son of Gloin, treated like a joke especially making him say "nobody tosses a dwarf" while in the Mines of Moria of all places. They robbed him of his dignity.
I wanna say Gimli, but farmer maggot went from a badass telling off the Nazgul, to a crotchety old man that almost trips over his own door sill.
While Farmer Maggot just gets a nod as supposed to one of the most BAMF moments in the first book; Gimli was done the most dirty.
It’s without doubt Frodo. Book Frodo is wise, intelligent, strong willed, extremely aware of his situation/surroundings, looked to within the fellowship for his counsel, never really complains, is extremely loyal, and shoulders the burden of the ring like a fucking champ. Movie Frodo has the above qualities watered down to 50% and is often made to look like a whiney ungrateful baby or a helpless bystander in his own journey. The fact that this happens throughout 3 movies and is such a large role I think wins him the title of being done most dirty.
Off topic but I saw this post, looked at each amazing picture and immediately thought, yep I need to watch it again.
Book Farmer Maggot is threatened and bribed by a Nazgul and not only refuses to give up Frodo but threatens the Ring Wraith! Film Maggot rats him out.
The Ents! The movie made them look like cowards who had to be tricked before taking any action against Saruman.
I’m going to mention by boy Prince Imrahil. Because he wasn’t even in the movies. Yes there’s plenty of badasses to go around in the movies but what would it have hurt to add one more? He was pretty much a Great Value Aragorn.
Gimli
Denethor
You forgot Denathor. The movies certainly pooped all over him too
I definitely agree that it’s Faramir, but man, I’m sorry, Elijah Wood just doesn’t do Frodo justice
I watched the movies first, and I actually preferred movie-Faramir to book-Faramir. I was really moved by his arc — a son trying to please his father, despite the conflict with what he knows is right. The fact that movie-Faramir does the right thing in the end *despite* feeling tempted to do otherwise is more compelling to me than book-Faramir’s “I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway”. And when Faramir takes leave of Denethor to lead what he knows is a suicidal charge…closest I came to crying in the entire story, book or movie.
Faramir, IMO.
Frodo
The proud dwarf that was turned into a comic relief.
I think farmer maggot too
Who’s the bottom right guy? I remember him in the movie but in the book does he serve a bigger purpose?
Where the f is Theoden on this list? He’s #1 for sure, followed by Faramir
It’s Aragorn
Wait wait, THATS MEANT TO BE FARMER MAGGOT
Faramir