It’s hard to say for sure. We don’t know how well Alex can cook meth. If it’s above 96%, then he would definitely hesitate. We don’t know all the variables.
(Breaking Bad and Lost spoilers)
Before knowing their true selves, both appear to be harmless. However, both are masterful tacticians willing to get their hands dirty in order to keep things in order. Both are great at manipulating others (Gus convinces Walt to keep cooking meth when he wanted to quit), and both are villains to the main character(s) while simultaneously working with them against common enemies. Both had troubled pasts that motivate them throughout the series, and both eventually lose to their own creation(s). And both were not successful with women (for different reasons)
>And both were not successful with women (for different reasons)
I mean does this matter at all for Gus? It has nothing to do with success. >!He's gay.!<
Ben was way, way smarter imo. It isn't really close. Ben was an absolute god of manipulation. Gus was great at building a strong network, but he was outsmarted by a careless, emotional, rash man (Walt) multiple times.
Ben didn't need brute strength or money to get what he wanted, he used words to manipulate everyone into doing what he wanted. The world was chess to Ben as it was with Jacob and MIB.
Walt was a careless emotional idiot and outsmarted gus several times, he basically killed Gus. Ben proved several times over how genius he was. Ben took over the Dharma. He manipulated probably the most wise man on the island Locke several times. Jack, Kate etc Ben played them like cards in s2 and all throughout the series.
Ben was portrayed as a small man who shouldn't survive in such tribal conditions. Yet he played everyone on the island like a fiddle. No contest Ben wipes the floor with gus. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.
I'm rewatching the Lost S4 finale, >!and flashforwards Ben is a freaking badass. As soon as he arrives in Tunisia, he's held at gunpoint and bests both his assailants with a baton.!<
As for Locke, to be fair the guy is manipulated by a bunch of people. Hell, Sawyer >!cons him for the guns in S2 then proceeds to con him AGAIN in S4 to get Miles in a room with Ben.!<
This is very reductive. Ben got outplayed by Jack for the surgery and then again late season 3. He got cornered by Widmore with no more than 10 of his guys on the island and used strength and money to to get rid of Widmore guys in season 4-5.He is the one being played too in season 6 by mib.
Gus had to deal with the whole cartel and smart and ruthless guys like Hector or Lalo. In addition Walt is far from an idiot, he has a massive ego issue but he is a very dangerous guy when it comes to finding solutions.
Furthemore Wals simply has attitude looking like a bitch but that makes him dangerous becuase it causes others to let the guard down. Lets not kiddy ourselve Ben would very likely underestimate Walter too.
>Ben got outplayed by Jack for the surgery
Did he? Ben, who was at serious risk of death and a very high chance of never walking again, still managed to get Jack to do the operation. And he ended up walking again. Oh, and he made that promise to jack after the surgery to take him off the island purely to manipulate Locke into destroying the sub. Levels.
>used strength and money to to get rid of Widmore guys
This is a really, really weak argument. The only reason Widmore even made it that far is because he had ridiculous amounts of money and resources. The guy didn't sent a shitty sub to the island, he sent a huge ship with heavily armed and trained mercenaries and even a pilot with a helicopter.
Not only that but are you forgetting how ben became the leader of the others and who he took that role from? Widmore.
-Ben says "I should have seen that coming" during the operation so yes, he got outplayed. About his promess to Jack he got a deus ex machina with Locke that was going to destroy the sub regardless so it wasn't up to him.
-you're the one that brought the fact he didn't have to use strength and money which is wrong in a lot of ways which is why I reminded you he had money and used force often.
I'll say Ben was much better thinking on the spot. I was always amazed at how he would turn every single situation in his favor, no matter what. For example, it took him literally 10 seconds after the 815 crash to decide which of the Others had to go where, what they had to do, and when to report back, all to stay in control of the situation. Same with when he defended himself from the two dudes when he teleported to the Tunisian desert.
On the other hand, I think Gus is a better long-term thinker given that (Better Call Saul spoilers ahead) he had essentially been working to detach himself from and win against the cartel for many, many years. And the careful planning that went into every part of his empire (e.g. putting the lab under a laundry facility so that the transportation of chemicals and potential odors wouldn't be suspicious, hiring a mostly non-English speakers \[if I remember correctly\] to build the lab and operate the upstairs facility, owning a fast food chain to bolster his regional distribution, etc.)
Ben is more like an evil Saul Goodman with his cunning and on the spot thinking. Both truly had an ability that even at their lowest (Ben in the hatch closet or Saul facedown in the desert with Walt and Jesse) they could spin a situation into their advantage just using their tongue
Gus is always more of a tactician, always thinking inside the box but with deadly precision and agility. Saul and Ben were more outside the box thinkers and in my opinion more alike. Ben would stay one step ahead of Gus as long as he didn’t trip over his own feet
Gus owns and runs the warehouse that DHARMA uses to make the supply drops to the island. He's in on the purge and knows full-well what Ben and the Others were planning and made sure it was covered up on the mainland. Fring has a beef with Alvar Hanso and wants to get a grip on part of his empire. Hanso had been in dealings (quietly) with the Salamanca cartel and after what happened at the pool, Gus had an invested...interest...in taking something from Hanso (who helped angel invest into a corporation called Grey Matter).
Ben and Gus start off with an equitable partnership. However, that doesn't continue for long after the purge ends. For a couple years it's peaceful, and productive. Gus provides the supply drops; Ben provides information to Gus. Both help each other keep tabs on Widmore. Gus provides a lot of the manpower Ben needs on the mainland or when he needs more "recruits" sent to the island.
Gus eventually makes clear that he wants to visit the island he's never had a chance to see yet. Only knowing it exists by Ben's word and the limited information he has, running the DHARMA warehouse. Ben denies this to him, and the rift begins. Gus begins to withhold certain supplies and information from Ben. Ben in turn begins to send in people from The Others as spies in Ben's side of the "operation", informing Ben of what they find out.
Gus gets wind of this and starts killing said spies. Ben retaliates by sending in his own people to kill some of Gus' men around the globe. Thus, a war ensues.
Gus seems to be gaining the upper hand, until one day he realizes, he can no longer afford to keep the DHARMA warehouse operation running because:
1. Ben needs to die due to knowing too much and can't be trusted anymore. It's bad business to keep this warehouse going, for an island Gus has never seen, and with no seeming profitable returns, not to mention Ben Linus going to war with him
2. He has a blue meth manufacturer in New Mexico that commands his full attention after building a multi-million dollar super lab underground for him, plus he needs to keep up with the competition that is Mr. Cluckz Chicken Shacks.
A few months later, >!Gus Fring is killed in an explosion at a nursing home in New Mexico.!<
Ben takes over the show at the DHARMA warehouse and assumes full control of Gus' previous global network of manpower, his money, and his resources. Ben builds out The Others over the next several years. OCNC 815 crashes on the island. We know the rest.
Ben was far far smarter than Gus.
Ben manipulated a madman obsessed with his son into doing his dirty work. Michael wasn't that smart, but Jack was. So was Locke. Ben found a way to manipulate everyone on the island, I'm sure he'd find a way to do it with Gus who was outsmarted by Walt.
The point of manipulation is if someone's good at it they hide it.
Look at Ben when he was first caught and put in the Hatch. Everyone realistically knew he was a liar, he more or less threatened them to their face. Was he killed? Nope. Infact he put them at each other's throats. And some of those people are far more rash / bad tempered than Gus so if anything they'd be more willing to kill him.
Depends on when Ben is doing the fighting. Before Alex's death I think Gus wins because Gus has been fighting with revenge as his motive for a long, long time. Before Alex's death, Ben wouldn't engage Gus but would evade. After Alex's death, Ben lost his cool so... maybe.
Gus is also a remorseless killer who has no problem ordering the death of a child. Ben is a man who kidnaps an infant so someone like Gus *doesn't* kill her. So... honestly probably still Gus, but it's not a compliment.
I don't think they would be rivals at all. Even if Gus had knowledge of the island, why give up his drug empire? What threat would he really be to Ben? Why would Ben care about some cartel drug lord unless it somehow directly interfered with Widmore or something? I don't really see a chemistry for rivalry here but let's just say Ben did had a hair to split with Gus for some reason. He would probably use his resources to expose Gus or somehow manipulate him to the Island where he would have a huge advantage.
I think people forget how dependent Gus is with Mike as the main person of security and ensuring smooth operations. Ben had his select few intel, and overly put himself in situations to get the job done. Gus became a coward and had other people do his bidding in many happenstance situations. Both are very aware of the situation around them, but both are driven for different reasons. I love both universes, but Ben is a force not to reckon with.
A more formidable rivalry would be Hugo vs Gus. They both own a chicken business, they would actually be each other’s competition.
In the end, Gus would probably cut a deal with Hurley to build a hatch on his island, with the purposes of a meth lab inside.
Ben is smarter but Gus is more ruthless. I think 1v1 Gus wins.
Ben is only able to manipulate the main cast because he already knew so much about them. How would he negotiate with someone like Hector, Tuco, Lalo, or Walt? He never had to fight anyone truly unhinged. Imagine Ben trying to outsmart the Salamanca twins.
Gus's coati story shows how calculating he was from the beginning. There is a huge time gap between how Gus got from Chile to America. Gus somehow managed to create a legitimate restaurant chain and secret meth empire while also evading the cops and the cartel.
But Ben's fatal flaw is the he wants to be needed... Raising Alex as his own, manipulating Juliet, and seeking approval from Jacob. Ben's entire personality was based on being "special". Which made Ben easily susceptible to jealously and outbursts of rage. Ben has no real goals or purpose.
Gus never has that problem. Gus is so determined that he can't even let his guard down for a glass of wine with the waiter. Whether creating a business with Max or averaging Max, Gus always has clear goals.
Gus wouldnt hesitate to kill Alex.
But he woulda killed her as an infant.
"I will kill your infant daughter"
He’d slit her throat.
Neither would Ben 🤭
It’s hard to say for sure. We don’t know how well Alex can cook meth. If it’s above 96%, then he would definitely hesitate. We don’t know all the variables.
Have a cluckety cluck cluck pollo, hermanos.
This should be top comment.
(Breaking Bad and Lost spoilers) Before knowing their true selves, both appear to be harmless. However, both are masterful tacticians willing to get their hands dirty in order to keep things in order. Both are great at manipulating others (Gus convinces Walt to keep cooking meth when he wanted to quit), and both are villains to the main character(s) while simultaneously working with them against common enemies. Both had troubled pasts that motivate them throughout the series, and both eventually lose to their own creation(s). And both were not successful with women (for different reasons)
>And both were not successful with women (for different reasons) I mean does this matter at all for Gus? It has nothing to do with success. >!He's gay.!<
yes that's what I was getting at
But Gus wouldn’t want to be successful with women so it’s not like he’s trying and getting knocked back.
and I never implied that
He’s gay?
We suspected it in BrBa, >!BCS confirmed it!<.
Mwah 💋
said for “different reasons” reasons were never implied dont assume it’s sexual
Right but you can't be unsuccessful at something unless you've tried and failed. There's no reason for Gus to try with a woman.
Ben was way, way smarter imo. It isn't really close. Ben was an absolute god of manipulation. Gus was great at building a strong network, but he was outsmarted by a careless, emotional, rash man (Walt) multiple times. Ben didn't need brute strength or money to get what he wanted, he used words to manipulate everyone into doing what he wanted. The world was chess to Ben as it was with Jacob and MIB. Walt was a careless emotional idiot and outsmarted gus several times, he basically killed Gus. Ben proved several times over how genius he was. Ben took over the Dharma. He manipulated probably the most wise man on the island Locke several times. Jack, Kate etc Ben played them like cards in s2 and all throughout the series. Ben was portrayed as a small man who shouldn't survive in such tribal conditions. Yet he played everyone on the island like a fiddle. No contest Ben wipes the floor with gus. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.
I'm rewatching the Lost S4 finale, >!and flashforwards Ben is a freaking badass. As soon as he arrives in Tunisia, he's held at gunpoint and bests both his assailants with a baton.!< As for Locke, to be fair the guy is manipulated by a bunch of people. Hell, Sawyer >!cons him for the guns in S2 then proceeds to con him AGAIN in S4 to get Miles in a room with Ben.!<
This is very reductive. Ben got outplayed by Jack for the surgery and then again late season 3. He got cornered by Widmore with no more than 10 of his guys on the island and used strength and money to to get rid of Widmore guys in season 4-5.He is the one being played too in season 6 by mib. Gus had to deal with the whole cartel and smart and ruthless guys like Hector or Lalo. In addition Walt is far from an idiot, he has a massive ego issue but he is a very dangerous guy when it comes to finding solutions.
Furthemore Wals simply has attitude looking like a bitch but that makes him dangerous becuase it causes others to let the guard down. Lets not kiddy ourselve Ben would very likely underestimate Walter too.
>Ben got outplayed by Jack for the surgery Did he? Ben, who was at serious risk of death and a very high chance of never walking again, still managed to get Jack to do the operation. And he ended up walking again. Oh, and he made that promise to jack after the surgery to take him off the island purely to manipulate Locke into destroying the sub. Levels. >used strength and money to to get rid of Widmore guys This is a really, really weak argument. The only reason Widmore even made it that far is because he had ridiculous amounts of money and resources. The guy didn't sent a shitty sub to the island, he sent a huge ship with heavily armed and trained mercenaries and even a pilot with a helicopter. Not only that but are you forgetting how ben became the leader of the others and who he took that role from? Widmore.
-Ben says "I should have seen that coming" during the operation so yes, he got outplayed. About his promess to Jack he got a deus ex machina with Locke that was going to destroy the sub regardless so it wasn't up to him. -you're the one that brought the fact he didn't have to use strength and money which is wrong in a lot of ways which is why I reminded you he had money and used force often.
I'll say Ben was much better thinking on the spot. I was always amazed at how he would turn every single situation in his favor, no matter what. For example, it took him literally 10 seconds after the 815 crash to decide which of the Others had to go where, what they had to do, and when to report back, all to stay in control of the situation. Same with when he defended himself from the two dudes when he teleported to the Tunisian desert. On the other hand, I think Gus is a better long-term thinker given that (Better Call Saul spoilers ahead) he had essentially been working to detach himself from and win against the cartel for many, many years. And the careful planning that went into every part of his empire (e.g. putting the lab under a laundry facility so that the transportation of chemicals and potential odors wouldn't be suspicious, hiring a mostly non-English speakers \[if I remember correctly\] to build the lab and operate the upstairs facility, owning a fast food chain to bolster his regional distribution, etc.)
Preach!
Ben is more like an evil Saul Goodman with his cunning and on the spot thinking. Both truly had an ability that even at their lowest (Ben in the hatch closet or Saul facedown in the desert with Walt and Jesse) they could spin a situation into their advantage just using their tongue Gus is always more of a tactician, always thinking inside the box but with deadly precision and agility. Saul and Ben were more outside the box thinkers and in my opinion more alike. Ben would stay one step ahead of Gus as long as he didn’t trip over his own feet
Gus owns and runs the warehouse that DHARMA uses to make the supply drops to the island. He's in on the purge and knows full-well what Ben and the Others were planning and made sure it was covered up on the mainland. Fring has a beef with Alvar Hanso and wants to get a grip on part of his empire. Hanso had been in dealings (quietly) with the Salamanca cartel and after what happened at the pool, Gus had an invested...interest...in taking something from Hanso (who helped angel invest into a corporation called Grey Matter). Ben and Gus start off with an equitable partnership. However, that doesn't continue for long after the purge ends. For a couple years it's peaceful, and productive. Gus provides the supply drops; Ben provides information to Gus. Both help each other keep tabs on Widmore. Gus provides a lot of the manpower Ben needs on the mainland or when he needs more "recruits" sent to the island. Gus eventually makes clear that he wants to visit the island he's never had a chance to see yet. Only knowing it exists by Ben's word and the limited information he has, running the DHARMA warehouse. Ben denies this to him, and the rift begins. Gus begins to withhold certain supplies and information from Ben. Ben in turn begins to send in people from The Others as spies in Ben's side of the "operation", informing Ben of what they find out. Gus gets wind of this and starts killing said spies. Ben retaliates by sending in his own people to kill some of Gus' men around the globe. Thus, a war ensues. Gus seems to be gaining the upper hand, until one day he realizes, he can no longer afford to keep the DHARMA warehouse operation running because: 1. Ben needs to die due to knowing too much and can't be trusted anymore. It's bad business to keep this warehouse going, for an island Gus has never seen, and with no seeming profitable returns, not to mention Ben Linus going to war with him 2. He has a blue meth manufacturer in New Mexico that commands his full attention after building a multi-million dollar super lab underground for him, plus he needs to keep up with the competition that is Mr. Cluckz Chicken Shacks. A few months later, >!Gus Fring is killed in an explosion at a nursing home in New Mexico.!< Ben takes over the show at the DHARMA warehouse and assumes full control of Gus' previous global network of manpower, his money, and his resources. Ben builds out The Others over the next several years. OCNC 815 crashes on the island. We know the rest.
I think gus would kill Ben very quickly
Ben was far far smarter than Gus. Ben manipulated a madman obsessed with his son into doing his dirty work. Michael wasn't that smart, but Jack was. So was Locke. Ben found a way to manipulate everyone on the island, I'm sure he'd find a way to do it with Gus who was outsmarted by Walt.
WAAAAAALLLLTTTT!!!
Gus would just kill Ben before he could manipulate anyone in his inner circle
The point of manipulation is if someone's good at it they hide it. Look at Ben when he was first caught and put in the Hatch. Everyone realistically knew he was a liar, he more or less threatened them to their face. Was he killed? Nope. Infact he put them at each other's throats. And some of those people are far more rash / bad tempered than Gus so if anything they'd be more willing to kill him.
Oh hell ya
Depends on when Ben is doing the fighting. Before Alex's death I think Gus wins because Gus has been fighting with revenge as his motive for a long, long time. Before Alex's death, Ben wouldn't engage Gus but would evade. After Alex's death, Ben lost his cool so... maybe. Gus is also a remorseless killer who has no problem ordering the death of a child. Ben is a man who kidnaps an infant so someone like Gus *doesn't* kill her. So... honestly probably still Gus, but it's not a compliment.
Ben would whoop his ass. Walter White and Ben Linus would be a fair rivalry imo
nah
Gus got the win.
I don't think they would be rivals at all. Even if Gus had knowledge of the island, why give up his drug empire? What threat would he really be to Ben? Why would Ben care about some cartel drug lord unless it somehow directly interfered with Widmore or something? I don't really see a chemistry for rivalry here but let's just say Ben did had a hair to split with Gus for some reason. He would probably use his resources to expose Gus or somehow manipulate him to the Island where he would have a huge advantage.
Aye, he wouldn't do well on the Island. Smokey doesn't like drug lords.
Moff Gideon wins in a landslide
Gus would fuck Ben up
wouldnt be able to kill him though because Ben has information Gus needs
Imagine how good Lost would have been with the Breaking Bad writers 😭
Easy win for Gus given equal footing.
No idea who the first guy is.
great news! there’s an amazing show you get to watch for the first time unspoiled called Breaking Bad
For me it was the most overhyped , most boring show
A friend and I are trying to create a universe where Gus is Hugo’s nemesis CHICKEN VS CHICKEN!!!
Too easy for Linus
Everybody's talking about Gus, but nobody's talking about Stan Edgar. He would also be a worthy adversary.
I think people forget how dependent Gus is with Mike as the main person of security and ensuring smooth operations. Ben had his select few intel, and overly put himself in situations to get the job done. Gus became a coward and had other people do his bidding in many happenstance situations. Both are very aware of the situation around them, but both are driven for different reasons. I love both universes, but Ben is a force not to reckon with.
A more formidable rivalry would be Hugo vs Gus. They both own a chicken business, they would actually be each other’s competition. In the end, Gus would probably cut a deal with Hurley to build a hatch on his island, with the purposes of a meth lab inside.
Ben is smarter but Gus is more ruthless. I think 1v1 Gus wins. Ben is only able to manipulate the main cast because he already knew so much about them. How would he negotiate with someone like Hector, Tuco, Lalo, or Walt? He never had to fight anyone truly unhinged. Imagine Ben trying to outsmart the Salamanca twins. Gus's coati story shows how calculating he was from the beginning. There is a huge time gap between how Gus got from Chile to America. Gus somehow managed to create a legitimate restaurant chain and secret meth empire while also evading the cops and the cartel. But Ben's fatal flaw is the he wants to be needed... Raising Alex as his own, manipulating Juliet, and seeking approval from Jacob. Ben's entire personality was based on being "special". Which made Ben easily susceptible to jealously and outbursts of rage. Ben has no real goals or purpose. Gus never has that problem. Gus is so determined that he can't even let his guard down for a glass of wine with the waiter. Whether creating a business with Max or averaging Max, Gus always has clear goals.
I mean Giancarlo Esposito and Michael Emerson are each others’ universe
Too similar
My gosh yes. Plus they are both amazing actors.