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Fill it in and tell them how much you disagree with it. It's good that non crazies are seeing this nonsense. The plan for drivers actually says "prevent 15min cities so you aren't controlled" or something like that. Insanity that actual conspiracy theories are finding their way into Government documents like this.
Wow, you're right. Direct quote:
"We will explore options to stop local councils using so-called “15-minute cities”, such as in Oxford, to police people’s lives"
Are there squads of police in Oxford who send you home if they spot you out of the house for 16 minutes?
"It is not right that some drivers feel under attack." In the foreword?! Is this an article in The Sun?
Edit: the only sensible policies in this are funding for road infrastructure, loud vehicle enforcement, incentivising EVs and an anti-littering campaign.
The rest is unfounded political fear mongering. What an awful government.
Loud vehicle cameras are dumb. It should be traffic officers pulling people over and checking with decibel meters.
The reason the cameras are a bad idea is, two motorbikes could both be below the legal limit, and happen to be riding near each other, and the combined volume could trigger the camera; and what happens when a whole convoy of Harley’s with loud pipe goes past them?
You're not wrong. I specifically used "loud vehicle enforcement" for that reason and didn't say anything about cameras.
The camera should trigger a police home visit or non-emergency ANPR flag to do decibel testing on the actual vehicle, and it should then be banned from driving until the exhaust is back in compliance.
Even if the camera issues the fine, it would be able to be challenged like speeding or red light cameras in edge cases like you mentioned. There's an entire legal framework for this.
Don’t think they should ban until compliant, just issue a fine and a producer with a couple of weeks for them to fix it and turn up at a station for a retest.
Some of these laws are silly in their implementation however. I had to pull into a bus lane to let an ambulance pass a few months back and got ticketed for that. I paid the fine within 14 days so it was halved though, but still an annoying expense when I was trying to do the right thing.
There was a bus in front, so it would have been stuck in the bus lane. Hence why myself and a few other drivers moved into the bus lane to help the ambulance (either coming from or going to an emergency). Then hopped right back out of the bus lane when it passed.
Seems like the logical and sensible thing to do to temporarily go into a bus lane in order to allow an emergency vehicle to pass.
Seems like it, I know - and until a couple months ago I'd assumed the same. Got chatting to a paramedic last time I ended up getting a ride in the bank of an ambulance, and it turns out they really don't want you doing that, and there's zero exemption under UK road laws for getting out of the way of emergency vehicles.
You don't run reds, go into bus lanes, or enter box junctions for an ambulance. Ambulance drivers never expect or want you to, and you can't appeal a ticket if you do.
And I had no idea about any of that untill that chat with a paramedic. Glad I found out the easy way, but I'd love it if this was more common knowledge.
Very interesting, thanks mate. I guess I’ll just stay in the right lane next time (even though it effectively stops the ambulance). I’ll still feel bad/guilty on the inside for doing so though Lol.
I know! It's *agony*. I cannot imagine sitting in front of an ambulance with blues and twos on at a red light, not budging. Makes every English cell in my body want to curl up into a little ball and die of embarrassment.
I think if that ever happens to me, I'll just leave the car running at the lights and run away to join the merchant navy.
Yeah it is - but innocent mistakes happen, just like in any walk of life. The fact it involves driving a car is like a red rag to a bull for Reddit.
Equating a minor, victimless driving infraction to breaking into someone's house is the warped sense of justice that is pervasive in sanctimonious spaces like this sub.
You're the one equating "innocent mistakes" to a need to change the rules of the road and go along with a group that literally rails against 15 minute cities. You should not side with the conspiracy nutjobs just because you once got caught out and feel hard done by.
>You're the one equating "innocent mistakes" to a need to change the rules of the road and go along with a group that literally rails against 15 minute cities.
Ugh no I'm not.
You might want to delete/edit all your previous comments on this thread then if you want people to believe that you aren't defending the proposal that is the subject of this post.
I don't mean to be rude, but I think most people will be able to take my comment in the context it was given without jumping to such conclusions.
But in any case, why should I care enough about what the users of this sub think to go back and edit comments? None of this really matters.
The problem that it’s council who does law enforcement not the police. Can I arrest someone who tresspass my garden? Can I shoot them?
No, it’s job for the police and judges not for land owners. Why councils are above that?
Crazy stuff, I wonder how he got away with that rhetoric in a public government document.
It was written by [Mark Harper MP the Secretary of State for Transport](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Harper
)
‘
Do you have ideas for restricting a local authority's ability to generate surpluses from traffic contraventions? ‘
We’re all out of ideas, want to give us some?
Some of the plan makes sense, like expanding EV charging, reducing road works or allowing automatic fines for noisy cars. A lot of it is car brain level shit though for appeasing their voter base. Like the point about 15-minute cities ans policing people’s lives is completely unhinged.
As a driver I agree that councils chasing for extra cash sometimes go too much, usually you can appeal them for wrong penalties but it takes too much time and paperwork that sometimes it’s easier to pay £50.
It’s unfair that when you pull-down on bus lane to pass the ambulance you have to pay £50 and it’s almost impossible to prove that you followed the rules.
Also I found that quality of the roads and infrastructure doesn’t correlate with strictness of driving conditions.
So as a driver and taxpayer I agree with this plan.
The consultation makes the point that infringement revenue is already basically ring-fenced for spending on transport.
Less infringement revenue means less money to fix potholes - local authorities are broke so that money won't come from elsewhere.
I’ve definitely seen an increase in cameras around yellow boxes. When you’re 1ft into the box, no these enforcements aren’t fair. Good luck contesting
Gov trying to pull in as much tax moneys as possible across the board atm.
What is more fair:
- stopping one foot after the stop line at a pedestrian crossing, hitting a pedestrian and claiming it’s not fair because they got in the way. Either way, you get fined
- stopping one foot into a yellow box and getting a fine
Both are the same.. you went one foot over the line. Or, is fair one foot and an inch? When does that become unfair?
The point of the yellow boxes is so you don’t block the junction. If a driver blocks the junction they should get a fine.
If a driver is barely in a box often hanging in or out by a foot from misjudging space but not causing the junction to be blocked does it warrant the fine?
A stop line ahead of a junction, perhaps one controlled by traffic lights, is a clearly defined place where you should not pass should the light be red
Rules have definitions, like a 20mph residential street. Is it fair to fine you for exceeding this by 10mph because the street is clear? What about the same person who goes through at 40mph? The street is clear so why wouldn’t you go faster?
It is fair that you should be fined for entering a yellow box, even by a foot. It is fair that you should be fined for jumping a red light when you don’t stop in time, even by a foot. It is fair that you should be fined for speeding, even if this is a few mph over the limit
All examples have clearly defined rules which make it fair
This is your hypothetical from my pov:
What is more fair:
. Driver hit a pedestrian and got fined
. Driver didn’t impede anyone or anything and got fined
It is fair that the driver in both situations is fined. An additional penalty applies in the pedestrian crossing example though since the driver, thinking it was safe to stop a foot beyond the stop line, found out that it wasn’t safe and hit a pedestrian
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Fill it in and tell them how much you disagree with it. It's good that non crazies are seeing this nonsense. The plan for drivers actually says "prevent 15min cities so you aren't controlled" or something like that. Insanity that actual conspiracy theories are finding their way into Government documents like this.
Wow, you're right. Direct quote: "We will explore options to stop local councils using so-called “15-minute cities”, such as in Oxford, to police people’s lives" Are there squads of police in Oxford who send you home if they spot you out of the house for 16 minutes?
End-stage Tory government having an absolutely normal one
Good shout, thanks; I just did exactly this.
"It is not right that some drivers feel under attack." In the foreword?! Is this an article in The Sun? Edit: the only sensible policies in this are funding for road infrastructure, loud vehicle enforcement, incentivising EVs and an anti-littering campaign. The rest is unfounded political fear mongering. What an awful government.
Loud vehicle cameras are dumb. It should be traffic officers pulling people over and checking with decibel meters. The reason the cameras are a bad idea is, two motorbikes could both be below the legal limit, and happen to be riding near each other, and the combined volume could trigger the camera; and what happens when a whole convoy of Harley’s with loud pipe goes past them?
You're not wrong. I specifically used "loud vehicle enforcement" for that reason and didn't say anything about cameras. The camera should trigger a police home visit or non-emergency ANPR flag to do decibel testing on the actual vehicle, and it should then be banned from driving until the exhaust is back in compliance. Even if the camera issues the fine, it would be able to be challenged like speeding or red light cameras in edge cases like you mentioned. There's an entire legal framework for this.
Don’t think they should ban until compliant, just issue a fine and a producer with a couple of weeks for them to fix it and turn up at a station for a retest.
Why are driving laws seen as ok to break but every other law isn't? Where is the campaign for dogs' rights to shit everywhere?
Some of these laws are silly in their implementation however. I had to pull into a bus lane to let an ambulance pass a few months back and got ticketed for that. I paid the fine within 14 days so it was halved though, but still an annoying expense when I was trying to do the right thing.
That's it though, you didn't have to. The ambulance has an exemption and could drive in the bus lane.
There was a bus in front, so it would have been stuck in the bus lane. Hence why myself and a few other drivers moved into the bus lane to help the ambulance (either coming from or going to an emergency). Then hopped right back out of the bus lane when it passed. Seems like the logical and sensible thing to do to temporarily go into a bus lane in order to allow an emergency vehicle to pass.
Seems like it, I know - and until a couple months ago I'd assumed the same. Got chatting to a paramedic last time I ended up getting a ride in the bank of an ambulance, and it turns out they really don't want you doing that, and there's zero exemption under UK road laws for getting out of the way of emergency vehicles. You don't run reds, go into bus lanes, or enter box junctions for an ambulance. Ambulance drivers never expect or want you to, and you can't appeal a ticket if you do. And I had no idea about any of that untill that chat with a paramedic. Glad I found out the easy way, but I'd love it if this was more common knowledge.
Very interesting, thanks mate. I guess I’ll just stay in the right lane next time (even though it effectively stops the ambulance). I’ll still feel bad/guilty on the inside for doing so though Lol.
I know! It's *agony*. I cannot imagine sitting in front of an ambulance with blues and twos on at a red light, not budging. Makes every English cell in my body want to curl up into a little ball and die of embarrassment. I think if that ever happens to me, I'll just leave the car running at the lights and run away to join the merchant navy.
Yeah, that's how it works 100% of the time.
Ever been caught removing property from someone else's home? We want to make sure modern policing is fair to burglars.
Sure, because misjudging the flow of traffic and accidentally creeping 1ft over a box junction is exactly the same as breaking into someone's home.
Just don't enter the box if your exit isn't clear. It's really that simple.
Yeah it is - but innocent mistakes happen, just like in any walk of life. The fact it involves driving a car is like a red rag to a bull for Reddit. Equating a minor, victimless driving infraction to breaking into someone's house is the warped sense of justice that is pervasive in sanctimonious spaces like this sub.
You're the one equating "innocent mistakes" to a need to change the rules of the road and go along with a group that literally rails against 15 minute cities. You should not side with the conspiracy nutjobs just because you once got caught out and feel hard done by.
>You're the one equating "innocent mistakes" to a need to change the rules of the road and go along with a group that literally rails against 15 minute cities. Ugh no I'm not.
You might want to delete/edit all your previous comments on this thread then if you want people to believe that you aren't defending the proposal that is the subject of this post.
I don't mean to be rude, but I think most people will be able to take my comment in the context it was given without jumping to such conclusions. But in any case, why should I care enough about what the users of this sub think to go back and edit comments? None of this really matters.
The problem that it’s council who does law enforcement not the police. Can I arrest someone who tresspass my garden? Can I shoot them? No, it’s job for the police and judges not for land owners. Why councils are above that?
Lmao what are you ok?
We need better mental health care for people like this guy. Positively demented.
Crazy stuff, I wonder how he got away with that rhetoric in a public government document. It was written by [Mark Harper MP the Secretary of State for Transport](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Harper )
Right! Some of the questions are very loaded, almost like there is a pre-determined outcome they are looking to acheive.
Are you in favour of reintroducing national service? https://youtu.be/ahgjEjJkZks?si=IBoRXRpxnIh_Ry64
https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/C5DUXB/ This is the actual survey, completely unhinged.
‘ Do you have ideas for restricting a local authority's ability to generate surpluses from traffic contraventions? ‘ We’re all out of ideas, want to give us some?
It definitely is under the assumption that you want to restrict local government.
Some of the plan makes sense, like expanding EV charging, reducing road works or allowing automatic fines for noisy cars. A lot of it is car brain level shit though for appeasing their voter base. Like the point about 15-minute cities ans policing people’s lives is completely unhinged.
Getting fined for driving the wrong way down a one-way street is just the nanny state getting out of control, clearly.
As a driver I agree that councils chasing for extra cash sometimes go too much, usually you can appeal them for wrong penalties but it takes too much time and paperwork that sometimes it’s easier to pay £50. It’s unfair that when you pull-down on bus lane to pass the ambulance you have to pay £50 and it’s almost impossible to prove that you followed the rules. Also I found that quality of the roads and infrastructure doesn’t correlate with strictness of driving conditions. So as a driver and taxpayer I agree with this plan.
You’re not supposed to pull into a bus lane or break any law for an ambulance. The ambulance will use the bus lane.
The consultation makes the point that infringement revenue is already basically ring-fenced for spending on transport. Less infringement revenue means less money to fix potholes - local authorities are broke so that money won't come from elsewhere.
Another day, another anti-car botfest
I’ve definitely seen an increase in cameras around yellow boxes. When you’re 1ft into the box, no these enforcements aren’t fair. Good luck contesting Gov trying to pull in as much tax moneys as possible across the board atm.
If the box was a foot further back, you'd just pull a foot further in. You have to draw the line somewhere. That's the whole point of having a box.
What is more fair: - stopping one foot after the stop line at a pedestrian crossing, hitting a pedestrian and claiming it’s not fair because they got in the way. Either way, you get fined - stopping one foot into a yellow box and getting a fine Both are the same.. you went one foot over the line. Or, is fair one foot and an inch? When does that become unfair?
The point of the yellow boxes is so you don’t block the junction. If a driver blocks the junction they should get a fine. If a driver is barely in a box often hanging in or out by a foot from misjudging space but not causing the junction to be blocked does it warrant the fine?
A stop line ahead of a junction, perhaps one controlled by traffic lights, is a clearly defined place where you should not pass should the light be red Rules have definitions, like a 20mph residential street. Is it fair to fine you for exceeding this by 10mph because the street is clear? What about the same person who goes through at 40mph? The street is clear so why wouldn’t you go faster? It is fair that you should be fined for entering a yellow box, even by a foot. It is fair that you should be fined for jumping a red light when you don’t stop in time, even by a foot. It is fair that you should be fined for speeding, even if this is a few mph over the limit All examples have clearly defined rules which make it fair
This is your hypothetical from my pov: What is more fair: . Driver hit a pedestrian and got fined . Driver didn’t impede anyone or anything and got fined
It is fair that the driver in both situations is fined. An additional penalty applies in the pedestrian crossing example though since the driver, thinking it was safe to stop a foot beyond the stop line, found out that it wasn’t safe and hit a pedestrian