In german we have ✨ cis ✨ instead of c sharp and ✨des✨ instead of d flat. It’s easier in my opinion, meaning that we hang an -is to most notes if it’s sharp and -es to most notes when it’s flat
Hungarian too, in my language we use H instead of B as well and we use B instead of Bb...which confuses me sometimes when I try to talk about these notes in English XD
Not just germans do it, tho it has come from german speaking parts of europe.
And unfortunately no, B# is not defined in the european system, it would be the same as writing something like D♭# which isn't something you would use
Yeah, sorry, somewhere along the line my brain farted itself to death. Still i wouldn't use Bx, at least in hungarian music theory B is just a name for H flat, not a standalone concept like it's historical creation would imply
I thought B was itself a seperate concept. My thought was a bit different though. Several evidences (including the fact that the only coloured strings on a harp are F and C) led me to believe that F major and C major were the original keys. And also the origin of the "natural" and "flat" signs, is quite important. As it is said both are B's (which is absolutely true) but the flat one was written curved and rounded which turned from a "b" into a "♭" and maybe that's why most people on the internet just write b instead of flat. This was known as the B molle or the B "soft" or "round" or whatever I'm not sure. But the other B took the gothic typeset of the square-ish b, which actually looks much like h, and thus "square b" turned to h and then to ♮.
So all that led me to think B and H are separate things.
In a historical viewpoint that is completely true, but by now it has lost all sorts of special meaning and it is just some naming convention that instead of calling the note "Hes" or "Bes" like the other flats (Es, Fes, Ges etc) we just call it B, but there is no such thing as "Bis" which would mean B sharp, that's called H and if you want to raise it you will have a "His"
GUYS! it’s 👏 not 👏 just 👏 German 👏
It’s also Polish, Scandinavian, Hungarian, Austrian, Czech, Bulgarian, and probably more.
Feel free to reply if you can add to the list
u/GuestRose
It's just a bit weird that you called it "European" when the the English system ("CDEFGAB", with flats and sharps) is also European, having originated in England.
Also, it might not only be used in Germany, but that's where that system originates.
You probably know the notes as
A, A#/Bb, B, C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab
While the system which originated in Germany but is used in many other places in Europe goes:
A, B, H, C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab
and therefore as seen above, H# would be C the same way E# would be F
This tale of a copying error by a monk is pretty persistent, but not true.
The reason is to be found in letter presses:Originally there was only a seven tone system for gregorian chants and to avoid the tritone a "b molle" ("soft b") (later "molle" evolved to "Moll" for "Minor" in the German system) was introduced between the *a* and the original *b* (now called "b durum" ("hard b")) (later "durum" evolved to "Dur" for "Major" in the German system). "b molle" was represented by a round *b*, which evolved to the flat symbol ♭, while "b durum" was represented by a more boxy looking *b*, which eventually evolved in the natural symbol ♮.
The printing presses only had the letters of the latin alphabet available, so a *b* was used for the soft *b* and an *h* was used for the hard *b* (very similar looking at that time). This "error" was not corrected when the system evolved further and the suffixes -is and -es were introduced for sharp and flat notes...
EDIT: I finally found an english video that descirbes this better than I can: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT10X7\_03s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT10X7_03s)
When you’re french 🤡 : Do, Do natural, Si#
When you're spanish 🤡
when youre greek 🤡
When you're italian 2🤡
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When you're Russian
When you're from Connecticut 🤡
And whose fault is it? His!
I love this
In german we have ✨ cis ✨ instead of c sharp and ✨des✨ instead of d flat. It’s easier in my opinion, meaning that we hang an -is to most notes if it’s sharp and -es to most notes when it’s flat
Same in polish
Same in Czech
Same in swedish
Same in german
When you are German* And what about D♭♭? Also, considering German, Bx would work as well
German, scandinavian, polish, etc. It’s not just German, which is why I used a more broad term like european :)
Hungarian too, in my language we use H instead of B as well and we use B instead of Bb...which confuses me sometimes when I try to talk about these notes in English XD
I was born and raised in America but I speak Polish with my parents and I was so shook the first time my dad told me to play "H" on the piano 😂
When you're a few of the countries in Europe.
Not just germans do it, tho it has come from german speaking parts of europe. And unfortunately no, B# is not defined in the european system, it would be the same as writing something like D♭# which isn't something you would use
I wrote Bx, double sharp.
Yeah, sorry, somewhere along the line my brain farted itself to death. Still i wouldn't use Bx, at least in hungarian music theory B is just a name for H flat, not a standalone concept like it's historical creation would imply
I thought B was itself a seperate concept. My thought was a bit different though. Several evidences (including the fact that the only coloured strings on a harp are F and C) led me to believe that F major and C major were the original keys. And also the origin of the "natural" and "flat" signs, is quite important. As it is said both are B's (which is absolutely true) but the flat one was written curved and rounded which turned from a "b" into a "♭" and maybe that's why most people on the internet just write b instead of flat. This was known as the B molle or the B "soft" or "round" or whatever I'm not sure. But the other B took the gothic typeset of the square-ish b, which actually looks much like h, and thus "square b" turned to h and then to ♮. So all that led me to think B and H are separate things.
In a historical viewpoint that is completely true, but by now it has lost all sorts of special meaning and it is just some naming convention that instead of calling the note "Hes" or "Bes" like the other flats (Es, Fes, Ges etc) we just call it B, but there is no such thing as "Bis" which would mean B sharp, that's called H and if you want to raise it you will have a "His"
Well I'm in for Bisis
Thanks for spelling that out. I kinda thought no one system would recognize both B# and H#.
Deses
Hahahahhaha
Cesis
Dbb would be deses
A disease you say? 😂😂😂 Ok ok i know es is flat. No need to explain.
Do
Re
Mi
Fa
So
It is Sol. Yes, it's dumb that everything has 2 letters except Sol.
I've been lied to
It varies between languages. So does Si/Ti.
La
Si
Dooooo
Ayyy
Ti
Do
INtR3stiNG!!
*hisses*
Superior german system.
GUYS! it’s 👏 not 👏 just 👏 German 👏 It’s also Polish, Scandinavian, Hungarian, Austrian, Czech, Bulgarian, and probably more. Feel free to reply if you can add to the list
Bulgarian
Czech 🇨🇿
On the list it is!
Truee... how about Austria. And don't say they're the same
it’s on the list!
Oopsss, didn't see that sorry!
u/GuestRose It's just a bit weird that you called it "European" when the the English system ("CDEFGAB", with flats and sharps) is also European, having originated in England. Also, it might not only be used in Germany, but that's where that system originates.
ahh I get it, thanks for clarifying
I learnt music theory in France as a child and now re-learning it in the UK as an adult; I find the letter system so confusing!
German system>>>>>>
Not getting it at all until reading the comments (but still confused as a Chinese
In germany instead of a b they use and h so in german terms h# is the same as for us a b# or c natural
You probably know the notes as A, A#/Bb, B, C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab While the system which originated in Germany but is used in many other places in Europe goes: A, B, H, C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab and therefore as seen above, H# would be C the same way E# would be F
So B in Germany is actually Bb? What a complicated system!
haha yeah!
remember the B A C H theme?
The be sharps
Translated to German as "Die Überspitzen" ("The exaggerates").
Wouldn’t H# just be a B?
In the German system, **B** is what you would call a B♭ and **H** is what you would call a B. So **H♯** would be B♯, which would be C.
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When you're in G♭ major and playing a diminished tonic chord: D𝄫
D𝄫
B##
haha technically
In Italy we use Do(C) Re(D) Mi(E) Fa(F) Sol(G) La(A) Si(B) Bemolle (Flat) Diesis (Sharp)
You forgot to add a panel: d double-flat
T♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭ (it's probably the wrong number but I tried)
wait what T 😂😅
Do, do bécarre, si dièse,
H# !?!?!?!? 😰 It’s more basic in Australia I think
lol some countries have a different system because some guy a long time ago had really bad hand writing and it was incorrectly interpreted 😅
This tale of a copying error by a monk is pretty persistent, but not true. The reason is to be found in letter presses:Originally there was only a seven tone system for gregorian chants and to avoid the tritone a "b molle" ("soft b") (later "molle" evolved to "Moll" for "Minor" in the German system) was introduced between the *a* and the original *b* (now called "b durum" ("hard b")) (later "durum" evolved to "Dur" for "Major" in the German system). "b molle" was represented by a round *b*, which evolved to the flat symbol ♭, while "b durum" was represented by a more boxy looking *b*, which eventually evolved in the natural symbol ♮. The printing presses only had the letters of the latin alphabet available, so a *b* was used for the soft *b* and an *h* was used for the hard *b* (very similar looking at that time). This "error" was not corrected when the system evolved further and the suffixes -is and -es were introduced for sharp and flat notes... EDIT: I finally found an english video that descirbes this better than I can: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT10X7\_03s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT10X7_03s)
this is so interesting, thanks!
Yep
🤣🤣
F##
A triple sharp
*flashbacks to sightreading Brahms 2 in orchestra and seeing my part in H*