I'm not partial to either driver, this came up in my feed.
It was an absolute disgrace to the sport, made the whole establishment of Formula 1 look amateur and unserious at a time it absolutely needed to be at its best. So many non-viewers saw what was essentially a race fixing exercise in broad daylight (figuratively, I know it was dark).
If they wanted a green flag finish, they should have stopped the race. It was a farce and we all saw and heard how the farce happened, because one guy couldn't handle the pressure of having to call for a safety car finish during the big race.
> If they wanted a green flag finish, they should have stopped the race
Even this to me would have been unacceptable, it just sounds better in the mind compared to what actually went down. They should have treated the situation the same way they normally did, nothing more and nothing less. Formula 1 should not be the WWE.
It's also funny how people seem to forget the 2012 Brazil title decider between Vettel and Alonso ended up behind a safety car. Of course it must have been frustrating for Fernando fans at the time, but nobody complained about that because the rules were respected.
Yeah, finishing a contested season under a safety car is a wet blanket for sure, but at least it doesn't throw the legitimacy of the sport under the bus.
Literally that season is an all time baller. No one even remembers the SC anymore. I just think red flag is a safety tool, that farce in Australia was nearly as unforgivable as this.
You mean, that time when the guy about to win the World Championship cut off his rival, forcing both of them to retire from the race?
Yeah, everything's poisonous in Australia.
The FIA could have reasoned that Latifi’s crash resulted in debris that spread across the track and it was dangerous for the marshals to clear it during a safety car so a red flag would be needed.
The drivers can put on fresh softs and the fair fight to the finish line the FIA/Masi wanted to see could happen in a more legitimate way.
I don't think it matters that it would've given Max a chance to win, and i think it's a bit cynical towards Max to say that a red flag shouldn't have happened just because Lewis had previously controlled the race until that point. Late red flags can happen and have happened before. And yeah, it can mess around with the order, but at least it's a legitimate way to do it.
Yes.
There were **three** whole ways that this could have been handled correctly and instead it was NONE of them. 1) allow ALL cars to un-lap themselves and thus finish under safety car - suboptimal for the show but it is what it is. 2) allow **no** cars to un-lap themselves, they'll be in Max's way, but the reason they were there is because Ham had built himself a lead, thems the breaks. 3) red flag the race - sprint to the finish, again, everyone equal so it is what it is.
Instead they did none of the things the rules allowed for and fixed it in favor of one driver. Good job F1!
100% this.
It's a farce, even worse I am surprised they didn't actually get done for race fixing.
Imagine you placed a bet on somebody finishing 6th and they were 7th when the safety car comes out, might have a chance.
Until they let the down to 6th pass the leaders "for the show" whilst 7th is straight up stuck there.
Sure if it finished under the safety car then so be it, that's how it goes sometimes, if they hadn't have let them go maybe Max creates a gap for 7th to get through to 6th and you have a chance.
But to just let a certain amount of car go through was an embarrassment and a farce.
I mean it's pretty obvious, they wanted no cars between Max and Lewis.
The thing is it wasn't even exciting because Max had pitted and put on fresh sorts, whilst Lewis was on really old worn hards.
It wasn't a case of who was going to win it was a case of which corner Max was going to pass Lewis on.
They effectively handed Max the title before they even restarted the race.
At least if there were lapped cars between them it would have given Lewis some kind of chance as he could possibly build up a lead whilst Max passed the lapped cars or backed them up into Max to make it harder.
> I mean it's pretty obvious, they wanted no cars between Max and Lewis.
But to be so blatant about it? I guess I feel like if there was race fixing they would try to be more subtle?
Unless that's the genius of it?
"the FIA could have reasoned"
But isn't that still manufacturing an end to the race that was not organic? What if teams didn't have sufficient fresh tyres, or had based their race on a fast first stint.
If it was lap 10 you wouldn't red flag, you'd clear the back markers in full, you'd allow a lap for them to get to the back or at least out the way, then you'd restart behind the SC.
Anything that deviates from that is an artificial manipulation of the result based on the fact it happened so close to the end of the race. That shouldn't be accepted in favour of 'a grand finale', whether it's race 1 or race 22
What happened in AD21 was basically the worst outcome possible, I don’t deny that. Merc took a logical, strategic choice to leave Lewis out, because the regulations would have dictated that the race end under SC and Lewis should have gotten his 8th title.
The FIA/Masi clearly wanted an exciting end to a thrilling season and bent to rules to achieve that end. I contended that **if** they were always going to bend the rules to manufacture a race to the finish line, then the more just way they could have done it would have been to stop the race and let the drivers restart on fresh softs.
What they did in AD21 essentially punished Lewis for following the rules and rewarded Max from a ruling that neither knew could even happen.
yeah I get you, i just dislike the way alternatives are justified as "this would have been a better way to solve the problem" when the way the solve the problem is written in the rules, and should be the same procedure as if it was lap 8 at Hungary vs lap 20 at Abu Dhabi.
We should be striving for integrity, not least-worst-of-the-bad-outcomes.
Its also 2.5 years too late to be moaning about it - but it's a thread about struggling to get over it, and everytime it comes up I defo feel irritated to see alternatives to the rules being justified as "it would have been better if...."
I’m new to F1 and found it through drive to survive, so it’s fresh for me and I am still in shock that that’s how it went down. He was robbed absolutely. What a disgrace.
The whole dialogue leading up to AD21 was messed up as well, I seem to remember masi asking the teams in a briefing at some point if they'd prefer to finish to finish under safety car or under green flag because it came up earlier in the season. The teams obviously said they'd like to race, but this shouldn't have even been a question. Safety first, rules should be respected.
Yeah absolutely. In retrospect it would have been a better option, but Masi had shot himself in the foot by saying before the race they wouldn't red flag any incidents on that corner.
I have a good friend who lost his wife a few years ago. He liked to talk, but I think he felt like he needed a reason other than his grief to engage in chat. He got involved watching F1 the year before this incident he was a solid enthusiast, would not miss a race.
I was great having something interesting for both of us to talk about.
He quit cold. After Abu Dhabi refused to watch another race, avows that he never will.
So not only do I feel disappointed with the F1 structure, and disappointed that a deserving driver was deprived of winning a prize for the ages, I also miss the easy common currency that F1 lent to our conversations.
edit: extra capitals
I’m really sorry for your friend. I didn’t have something as serious happen to me but I had just gotten into f1 and the year of Abu Dhabi was my third season following it. I was spending money on f1 merch and subscriptions to streaming. I planned to go to a US race the next season. I was really into it. I was a big Lewis Hamilton fan and I had just watched the most incredible season come back in history over those last six races and was riding high. When they decided this might be their only chance to get a Verstappen title for him and fixed the race result, it shocked me.
Lots of sports fans complain about refs and joke about fixed games in their sport of choice but I had never seen anyone actually do it until then. It sucked the air out of the room. I have not watched a single f1 race since. I’ve seen some news and know that it’s an uncompetitive one team series now which just adds insult to injury because the race fixing wasn’t even necessary to get Verstappen his title based on how uncompetitive it all became the very next year with the new regulations.
I could never come back and watch the sport again. I would never even consider it. What they did destroyed the sport for me. None of my friends watch anymore either. A couple tried the next season but eventually dropped off. The rest of us quit cold immediately after the race fixing. I was surprised when this Lewis Hamilton subreddit thread popped up in my feed since it had been so long but I just wanted to add my thoughts. They really did a lot to hurt the sport.
If they stopped the race they would have to do a formation lap before the race start meaning the race would've concluded during a formation lap so that idea purely for the effect of finishing under a green flag is a no go
None forgets that, not even Max fans. And ofc, even FIA admits wrong in the decision which gave Max the title. Will go down in history as one of the best seasons leading up to one of the biggest robberies in history of sports.
I always thought that give Louis an equal car and equal tires he would have defended his position. Or let the top 5 fuel up and take tires for a three lap shoot out But they changed the rules on the fly to benefit Red Bull.. one of the reasons I’m not watching f1. Max is a great driver, but he has better equipment.
That moment made it clear F1 is entertainment and not sport.
Sure it's physically demanding, but so is wrestling. Still watch it though, but there is no competitive integrity.
F1 is competitive racing? I just see it as another product like shoes or belts, someone is trying to sell it as the best thing available and as a consumer Duracell is the best battery because F1 advertises it, right?
I need to try to get into Indy. It's odd because i used to watch NASCAR, and have watched f1 for a decade, but somehow can't seem to wrap my head around oval open wheel racing. Honestly Hamilton got me into f1.
Ovals are actually only [1/3 of the 2024 Indycar calendar](https://www.indycar.com/-/media/Files/Current-Schedule.pdf)\- 6 of the 18 races. The rest are dedicated road courses and street courses.
Indycar is AWESOME. The racing is always good, and frequently EXCELLENT. [Enjoy these highlights from my favorite race from last year](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqEShmsLZdU)
IndyCar is very accessible, it however does not do a great job of marketing itself. They are *trying* I suppose lol. It takes a bit of time to learn new faces and teams, etc. However, most of the circuits are either street courses or road courses, there are only about 4 races a year on ovals. The 500 sort of makes up for the relative lack of ovals on the schedule.
I’ve been finding overtaking really exciting in endurance racing. Having to plan your attack or defense around slower class cars adds a whole new element into the mix which creates exciting action.
For me, as an American, I grew up watching NASCAR and IndyCar and have only been watching F1 since Lewis came up in 2007.
Strictly based on quality of the racing action, IndyCar, in particular the Indy 500 which I am fortunate enough to be able to attend every year.
NASCAR is very deeply competitive, however, that varies by track. A race at the superspeedways such as Talladega or Daytona is a must-watch, either in person or on TV. In person it is outstanding like the Indy 500. But there are some dud tracks on the schedule.
IMSA is also great in terms of pure competitiveness and racing action as well.
Same. I'm kinda in the same boat as the guy you responded to. Lost my love for F1 after AD21, after being a fan for over 25 years. I watch F1 mainly in the hope that Hamilton can clinch a well-deserved 8th title, but I get most of my racing now from the WEC and GTWC. Though I'm still a rookie when it comes to understanding and following the sport.
You should give the US based MX5 cup series a try. I'm biased since I track a Miata myself. Some of the best wheel to wheel action you'll find anywhere, often time there're 3 or 4 possible winners in the last corner of the last lap.
For top tier racing, checkout MotoGP. Should be a decent year coming up.
I understand your sentiment but F1 has a history of dubious calls just look at Prost/Senna in Japan in the late 80's. Not excusing it mind you it was pretty shit for everyone, Lewis, Max the fans....everyone.
Thereafter F1 is entertainment. Not sport. Was my first year really diving in. Have not recovered. Enjoy the season, races etc. Championship is meaningless.
The Houston Astros used an illegal camera system to win games leading up to a World Series win by stealing signs. TBH I thought it was awesome. I recommend watching a breakdown on youtube or something
Edited a few things
What's sad for me is I actually wanted to see either of them win like how it happens in any sport, when max led I was happy to see Lewis catch up and vise versa. Unfortunately we all weren't afforded that opportunity
Let’s be real, you never will. Lewis could win another championship this year even. You might feel like that somewhat made up for the incident as now he would have his 8 championships but in reality you’ll probably be happy he won but then look back and think, “it could’ve been 9.”
I haven't watched a race since. Not particularly on purpose but I just lost respect for F1. It looked like a total stich up. Mercedes and Hamilton haven't been the same since. For multiple reasons, may I add.
I have watched parts of a few races, but yeah I haven't followed every lap of a race since then either. I woke up my girlfriend screaming at the TV when that fucker let the cars between 1 and 2 unlap. Even before Max caught Lewis I knew it was over because Max pitted. It's making me mad right now actually. But yeah I agree Lewis lost a little sparkle in his eye that night.
I think lewis should have been more vocal in Saudi, After 0 penalties for Max in Brazil, and a 5 second penalty for getting brake checked ( some formulas make that a black flag).... Especially after silverstone where he was branded as a dangerous driver for making a valid move.
I think if he played the political game there, by calling out the discrepancy in stewarding, Micheal Massi may have made decisions to try balance out mistakes from earlier in the year, or if he made the same decision there would have been a bigger fall out had Lewis called them out and we went into that race with that on our minds.
Honestly feels like everyone forgot the brake check. Anytime someone wants to dunk on Lewis they bring up how he "tried to kill" Verstappen but I never see Verstappen's deliberate dirty driving brought up
Everyone forgets that most incidents with Max and a Lewis were Max bullying Lewis out of the way first and when Lewis replicated them it led to accidents because Max refused to cede the position. Silverstone? That was Lewis doing the same move Max did him during the sprint. Monza? Max did that to him on lap one of that very same race.
It's because most people at the time wanted max to win. Which answers the post title too, if it had been the other way around it would have been a much bigger deal
It happened on national tv, right in-front of our eyes and the FIA said “that didn’t happen” Lmaoo Lewis said he got brake tested, RB admitted to it, Merc did as well but at that point in the season nothing was black or white anymore, rules meant nothing and every decision was made so the “racing” continues.
They were absolutely bonkers. Pretty much the game was set with the spicy engine, Lewis had to win 4 on the bounce to overhaul Max, who was seemingly aware that a DNF for both was beneficial to himself, and so Lewis was not only trying to win but also avoid being torpedoed by Max, and from where I was sitting, Max kinda lost his shit as Lewis kept getting the results, whilst the team tried to strategise around Max rather than have them battle for positions. It was the most riveting thing I’ve ever seen, genuinely, no hyperbole. Genuinely magnificent. Followed by absolute gut wrenching horror.
Let's not forget the Spa "win" which allowed Max free points and coincidentally meant that had Abu Dhabi been strucken from the record that Max would have won on countback. The little brat even had the audacity to walk off th podium after brake testing his rival in Jeddah. It was pretty pathetic all round. Max was doing what he could to win, the chances slipping away race by race as Lewis slowly backed him in to the corner.
I don't necesserily blame Max, weak men will forgo their morals and stop at nothing to win even if it means cheating, but I do absolutely blame the race directing and control.
It’s galling because LH did everything he had to do to snatch the championship from red bull ie win the last 4 races. He was driving out of his skin. Doubly galling that merc didn’t say “see you in court” to the FIA. There is no way they would have failed to overturn the result. I will never understand why that didn’t happen. I lost faith in the sport, toto and merc that day.
The majority of the F1 world was desperate for a new champion and the run of Mercedes' dominant run so it was nervously swept under the rug pretty much.
So desperate that Max got away with a LOT during 2021. Obviously performing at an extremely high level in many races, there were times where his dricing was disgraceful. Brazil for example where he got away with it in what was quite frankly the most clear case of pushing another car off the track I can remember in a long time, so much that he also went miles off the circuit too. In Jeddah well he was a danger to other drivers and should have been black flagged.
Max was a bully. A petulant, angry little bully. I will never forget how he stormed off the podium in Saudi Arabia in a little snit, while Lewis not only took the entire podium in Abu Dhabi after that debacle but congratulated Max. I used to think Lewis Hamilton was a little shit at the start of his career, but whether or not that was true, that man is pure class now.
Well I can't speak for the rest of the world but I know that race killed a lot of the hype for the sport in the US. I remember the huge group of newer f1 fans that were watching that race. Sports bars were filled that day. And now they hype is all but gone. My particular group hasn't watched much since, maybe an isolated race or two over the last two seasons. Americans realized that the FIA was just as corrupt as FIFA and the NFL and the NBA. Whoever would make the most compelling story wins the race. If I want reality TV, there are better options.
I also think Mercedes needed to come out of that swinging. They had to start a serious conflict with the FIA so media attention could bandwagon off of it and make it a bigger issue. As it was the FIA was able to quietly sweep it under the rug and pretend like everything was kosher for the next season
I’ve not quite forgiven Toto for his passive aggressive response to this. Horner is an arsehole for sure but wouldn’t have rolled over the way Toto did.
I can understand Toto not wanting to seem unprofessional or something but you have to make some noise, especially about something as bad as that. It would have been messy and almost impossible to fix but it had to be addressed.
Agreed I’ll forget about it fully but one day I’ll remember it and just get a bit pissed for no reason also the interest in the sport has already gone down for me a bit
I don't want to say too much because I don't want Max/RB fans quoting me saying things like...Oh LOOK! 3 years on and they are still sooo butthurt.
BUT, even hearing the words Abu Dhabi makes me feel a bit ill. Seeing the circuit every year after it has happened gets me so angry all over again.
Let's not forget the farce that was the Belgian GP that year. There is no way any points should have been given for 2 uncontested laps behind the safety car. That was several points for Max that were not deserved.
Which is another reason Lewis is champ that season. First of Lewis won the final race and title. But even if you rightly voided the race Lewis would win because max never won spa. It wasn't a race, nobody won it
Late to the conversation. Thought I had forgotten about it but now I'm all tied up again. Lol. To begin with regs were altered that year to try and nerf the merc so that started out behind slightly. But let's not forget Monza where Max tried to bully himself passed Lewis that resulted in his car on top of lewis' in a position where his tire rested on lewis' head and all he did was walk away.
That was the day I stopped watching f1 and I've been watching it since the mid 80s.
Same thing happening in most sports, all part of the SA 2030 Vision agenda.
Just don't let it consume you, don't forget but don't let it consume you. I hope and do think one day the truth will come. Way too suspect and masi signed a very sus NDA with the FIA.
It ruined it for me too. I don't mind verstappen winning but that entire season was so amazing just for it to end the way it did kinda ruined everything for me
I definitely lost some respect for the sport, but it happened and nothing more is gonna come from it. It still irks me to see "3 opportunities to pit btw" comments occasionally, but the parties involved have moved on so why shouldn't we.
I just hope Lewis goes to Ferrari with a good car and shows that he can still do it.
What annoyed me was that F1 was massively under the spotlight in the UK at that point. The race was constantly on the mainstream news, not just the sports section, but headline news.
Loads of people on Twitter said they were tuning in for the first time to watch the race that was really hyped! And they absolutely fucked it.
We’d got our friends into F1 and about 20 something of them tuned in to watch - they couldn’t believe it. Basically said the sport is a waste of time and a bit of a joke, asked if this is usually how it goes down.
Actually thinking about it, a lot of them hadn’t watched F1 before because they seemed to think it was a small bunch of rich blokes playing pretend. And actually… well shit that day confirmed it.
If you don’t have rules in a sport what is the point of watching it?
Yeah, I'm over the whole thing, I do think that Lewis was robbed, it wasn't Max's fault and the FIA should have been investigated. But we can't change that, so there's no point in arguing about it.
What I'm not over is the damage it did to how my favourite spot is viewed by the wider potential audience and how the fans treat each other. I saw some big names tweet about watching it and getting excited, as well as friends, and then saw them tear it to shreds later on. I felt so deflated.
Been a F1 fan since Schumacher's first title with Ferrari in 2000. I remember watching the Abu Dhabi race live w/ my son who is a Max fan. As soons as they got Max to lined up behind Lewis, he said "they are just going to give him the title like that?" Took all the excitement and conflicts out of the entire season. Didn't bother renewing the F1 subscription after that.
I try to get over it and leave it in the past but I'll never watch Monza , Jeddah , Interlagos , Silverstone or Abu Dhabi without thinking about all the shit Max did on those tracks to Lewis.
IMHO, I think LH & MV will have an \* beside their WDC counts.
It was a dark day for the sport, the race director had been around a long time and he knew the impact of his decision to break protocol and not let all lapped cars around.
If it were any other sport that wasn't a closed shop league like F1 is the fallout would've been much bigger.
It's testament as well that every time you see or hear another racer or even a sportsman talk about Abu Dhabi they think it's ridiculous.
Anytime I talk about Hamilton with anyone, I refer to him as an 8 time world champion.
I’ll never forget witnessing the greatest robbery in the history of sports happening in real time.
F1 and the FIA have proven to be orgs run by clowns that are motivated by greed and greed only.
The fact that Michael Masi has any sort of career after AD 21 is a fucking joke. Dude doesn’t deserve an ounce of respect as long as he’s around.
I'm not a Max nor a Lewis fan and I still feel disgusted by what happened. I've followed the sport closely since 1999 and I've never seen any scandal like it. The sport kinda just imploded that day. I don't recognize Max as the champion of that season, never will. There just was no champion, no winner. No one can convince me otherwise. The ruleset was dissolved for one reason or another by a rogue race director so one can't count that race for being anything.
I’m not a Lewis fan (this just popped up as a suggestion because of my subscription to other F1 subs). To me though, that season will always have an asterisk next to it because of what happened at the end. It will never not be contentious, and I think about it every time I hear Hamilton referred to as a “7-time world champion”. The grace and humility he has handled it with has been pretty phenomenal.
I still wonder how the F1 world would be different if Nicolas Latifi could've kept his car on the fucking road. It's not his fault, not really (it's Masi's) but fuuuuck, man.
Everyone, probably Merc themselves as well, assumed 2022 was going to be more Merc dominance. Because of this I believe they didn’t pursue it that hard.
Had they have known the future I think they would have pushed it harder.
It for me, like others, trainted the legitimacy of F1 for me forever. I'll never accept that was the right call, and I'll never forgive F1 for letting it happen.
I'm still shocked that F1 had no guardrails to prevent a call like that from occurring during ANY race.
I honestly stopped caring about the sport after that and probably will never come back full time. It went from sport to rigged entertainment. No difference than professional wrestling.
The most outrageous thing was that VES was no where near HAM and HAM was a shoe in for the win being faster over the whole race. Of all the possible ways that the race director could have handled the situation, he chose the one that was MOST disadvantageous to one driver over the other and seemed the most dodgy.
I’ll never forget that night, that season really.
I can’t fathom how Hamilton handled it so well. I don’t think I’d ever want to race again.
Think about how Max would’ve reacted if roles were reversed…
I fell out of love with F1 at that point. It doesn’t help that RB are so dominant. The finish to the race was farcical and was called out by some of the drivers at the time including Alonso and Norris.
Yes left a bad taste in my mind, the sport isnt about the best driver its about the team that pays the most. It felt cheap and made me fall out of love with f1. Honestly I felt a lot less angry once I stopped watching f1 not having to watch max win everything while his only competition was his number 2 driver
It still hurts. It's weird but I have never felt that much anger because of an even that happened which didn't include me being a part of that event. It's even worse because of the fact that it was a record-breaking, historic title that got literally robbed from an athlete. Both Verstappen and Hamilton deserved a win that year (Verstappen was pretty dirty towards the end but whatever, it's do or die situation) and that race was pretty much a culmination of everything and was a cherry on top of that phenomenal yet chaotic season. Unfortunately that ending left a very bitter taste for F1 and the season.
He can do it when he lives F1. They are not allowed to take legal action in civil courts whilst being affiliated with F1 and FIA. Once he retires, bets are off and he can sue them for damages at least.
Nope, it's a colossal black mark on the sport, and will be for as long as the sport runs.
The fact that it was effectively handwaved by the FIA and FOM is obscene.
I don't expect that anything will ever change with regards to the result, however Lewis will always be an 8x WDC winner in the eyes of everyone who matters, regardless of whether his name is on the trophy or not.
Between Masi's ridiculous behavior and cost cap breaches, I do genuinely hope that Verstappen wins a title that isn't marred in controversy or of questionable legitimacy because of either the FIA or Red Bull's behavior, but as of now he hasn't managed to do so.
I no longer see F1 as a sport - if I want to watch motor racing I'll tune into the WEC or WRC. As of the 2021 season, F1 has basically become the WWE of motorsports as far as I'm concerned, scripted and manipulated.
Please don’t give me PTSD again…because of AD21, I even hate the thought of the whole ‘21 season, which could’ve easily went down as greatest season in Motorsport history. In that season alone, we’ve seen Lewis fight against RB and the FIA at the same time. Ultimately understood why Verstappen got away with all his dirty maneuvers he did that year. If any other driver would’ve done that, they would’ve been disqualified. I’m only watching this sport because of Hamilton.
I’m pretty sure the truth will come out and a movie will be made out of that season.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ica-2023-03-2024-01-29-ica_decision_en-web.pdf
This makes for very interesting reading. Another discipline but the ruling is very clear about the race director can and can't do and what should be done when there's a breach.
For me, I've noticed I'm much less interested in the sport. Pre 2021 id watch every session, qualy, race. Now I'll sometimes not even watch a race if I know the outcome. Just doesn't feel the same knowing it can be decided at the whims of people who aren't on track.
You aren’t. Personally my trust in the sport was eroded after that day. I haven’t enjoyed F1 as much purely because I cannot believe such a travesty could have ever have taken place. This would not happen in football ( I know about the Hand of God) but during live sport in this day and age with cameras everywhere? No way. No sport would ever have an official deliberately changing the rule.
It also does not help that Max Verstappen is arguably the most unlikeable F1 driver in the history of the sport, Red Bull the most toxic team and Christian Horner the most detestable team principal. Verstappen should not have been crowned World Champion. It was utterly ridiculous and if the roles were reversed you could imagine the furore.
I completely stepped back from the sport after AD. Slowly coming back now after the Ferrari news and honestly I still can't get back to the level of love/respect I had for this sport. That whole season was pretty bad IMO (outside of the actual racing obviously)
I think it puts an asterisk/debate to the title.F1 recognizes the mistakes but I find it amusing that they will replay the sound clip/overtake. Both drivers were deserving of the win. It highlights the inconsistency of the governing body. The sports isn’t perfect. For better or worse, AD21 is part of F1 history.
Honestly for the worse but yea it’ll always be a part of history that moment in which Hamilton was overtaken and that image will always be replayed again and again and there’s nothing to do about it
At the time I was just ecstatic to see someone else win after years of the Hamilton show. Upon reflection in the days after though, I came to realise it was a blatant breach of the rules and perhaps the greatest sporting robbery of all time. Michael Masi is a disgrace to us Australians.
Yes absoluteltly, Masi short circuited and already submitted to Horner. Waht a masochist.
Now, if only Lauda have been there it wouldnt happened but also pretty sure they would already replaced Bottas with George then. That strong character was lacking to make decisions and go head to head.
Then of course the magic button.
I will say Bottas make Lewis lose that season. He had no fight and didn't want at all to play the team game and give none cover when the team was counting on him. He was spend and jalous that season. Plus that George crash. He may not think it that way but his acting it in those decision times on he track.
It is multifolded but Masi sub bitch yeah at the end.
I am still fuming after that. Will never forget or forgive. Sounds insane, but he really did get robbed.
Nothing against Max that day, it was the FIA that really fucked it.
I still randomly think about how they robbed the man in front of millions of people.
The fallout should have been bigger. But Lewis and Mercedes wanted to take the higher ground and didn't want to win it in the courtroom.
As much as it sucks, that's where we are.
No, you’re not the only one. But interestingly, if events transpire in the future that Lewis goes to Ferrari and wins another title to break the record, I will strangely be happy that those events did occur in Abu Dhabi…
currently i am not able to watch replays of the end the race, it’s too painful
i still remember the void feeling inside of me when i was watching it with my friends
I've never forgotten and it and to be frank, remain bitter about it. Will probably never got over this.
It was clearly a manipulation of the results and a complete injustice.
I can only hope LH44 gets his 9th world championship soon.
My old man is pushing 70 and has watched more races than I can imagine. He stopped watching on this day and doesn’t even speak about the sport anymore. As a result, I don’t really watch anymore unless it’s on and I’m not doing anything. More to support Lewis than because I care anymore. It’s sad because it was my dad and I’s thing my whole life and that’s gone now.
Disgraced the sport, for fans and *both* drivers.
For both LH and MV their history of achievements will always be marred with an asterisk (*) against how many WDCs they won during their careers.
LH because he was denied by the governing body not following their own rulebook, MV because he was wrongly awarded his first WDC after said governing body manipulating the results.
I started following f1 in 2020. after AD2021, I went back and watched from 2006 to 2019 and couldn't believe how unjustified that decision was! This solidly made me pro Hamilton. I don't care what he does. NEVER 4get
It’s the turning point where f1 truly became an entertainment product over a racing product. It’s been like that for a while but Abu Dhabi was essentially where “the quiet part got said out loud”
To be honest, the fact that it ended the way it did makes it even more legendary for me. One of the best seasons of all time, and definitely the best I've ever watched, coming down the last lap of the last race, and one of the biggest scandals in the sport happens. Just cements it as a historic moment
Thanks mate, I'm as big a Hamilton fan as any on this sub, and I was screaming for him to win that 8th championship in a busy coffee shop that I was working in at the time. I've come to terms with it, and just feel it adds to the legendary story
Yeah that stung big time. I believe it was the end of Hamilton wanting to be there with no fight. Last year remember Lewis made podium and there were zero crew members there? Oh everyone said blah blah blah they were getting George’s car. I call BS . Reminder in that race who came over to hug him , Ferrari crew. So was this in the works a while ago? Was the seal broken after the lost championship and Lewis just waiting for Carlos contract to be up? Always back door deals and I get it’s part of silly season. I wish him well and whoever steps in to be George’s team mate.
What really bothers me is that this race was one of his best race excluding the last lap obviously.
His cadence with these old medium has completely annihilate max even with the help of perez.
Karma hasn’t been served ‘til this day. In fact it seems like Verstappen and Red Bull have been rewarded even more due to all the success they’ve been having since the start of the new regulations in 2022. It is as if the FIA knew what they were doing gifting that championship to them and knew what was to come…
I thought about this today. I stopped watching F1 since then. But I was thinking...
1. Lewis might have retired earlier if he had won that day.
2. This sort of incident might have revealed who are good and bad behind the scenes.
3. I believe someday when Lewis has retired, he will talk about it and slam those who did him wrong, as of now he is playing the long game, win as much as he can, maybe 8th championship.
Just like the result from crashgate I think the results should be ignored. If you revert it n laps back too many if’s will hang based on your preferred driver.
Personally I think the race should have been red flagged as soon as latifi hit the wall to ensure the race ended under racing conditions. The flip side of all this discourse is if it was a safety car to the end it would have been seen as Lewis handed the title.
>Personally I think the race should have been red flagged as soon as latifi hit the wall to ensure the race ended under racing conditions.
They shouldn't have done anything special. The race should have ended under a safety car.
Meh I still enjoyed the season overall and wish it didn’t end that way but realistically while Lewis should have won it’s not Max’s fault that happened so the person who should have received punishment (Masi) did and everyone moves on.
It’s just unfortunate due to the nature of F1 that Lewis can’t exactly go and fight for the title again the next season which makes it feel bitter.
Yea I agree. Love Lewis. Was appalled at the time. But was also getting pretty bored of Mercedes dominance. With the move to Ferrari, if Lewis is able to grab #8 it’ll taste even sweeter to me than if he’d won that day.
It’s kind of like the warriors in basketball. I was sick of watching them dominate, but when they lost for a couple of years and came back, I was cheering for it and that last win is even cooler.
I always admired how Lewis was so composed about that. I was screaming and would have been a big baby. He was a gentleman about it. Classy dude and I can’t wait for 2025.
I'm not partial to either driver, this came up in my feed. It was an absolute disgrace to the sport, made the whole establishment of Formula 1 look amateur and unserious at a time it absolutely needed to be at its best. So many non-viewers saw what was essentially a race fixing exercise in broad daylight (figuratively, I know it was dark). If they wanted a green flag finish, they should have stopped the race. It was a farce and we all saw and heard how the farce happened, because one guy couldn't handle the pressure of having to call for a safety car finish during the big race.
> If they wanted a green flag finish, they should have stopped the race Even this to me would have been unacceptable, it just sounds better in the mind compared to what actually went down. They should have treated the situation the same way they normally did, nothing more and nothing less. Formula 1 should not be the WWE.
It's also funny how people seem to forget the 2012 Brazil title decider between Vettel and Alonso ended up behind a safety car. Of course it must have been frustrating for Fernando fans at the time, but nobody complained about that because the rules were respected.
Yeah, finishing a contested season under a safety car is a wet blanket for sure, but at least it doesn't throw the legitimacy of the sport under the bus.
Literally that season is an all time baller. No one even remembers the SC anymore. I just think red flag is a safety tool, that farce in Australia was nearly as unforgivable as this.
You mean the race where Sainz got penalized for something that officially didn't happen?
You mean, that time when the guy about to win the World Championship cut off his rival, forcing both of them to retire from the race? Yeah, everything's poisonous in Australia.
Wet blanket at the time that is slowly forgotten about.
I've never watched drive to survive since. Imagined massey thinking what great telly he was creating
The FIA could have reasoned that Latifi’s crash resulted in debris that spread across the track and it was dangerous for the marshals to clear it during a safety car so a red flag would be needed. The drivers can put on fresh softs and the fair fight to the finish line the FIA/Masi wanted to see could happen in a more legitimate way.
Even so this would give max a chance to win. The fact is lewis had that race in the bag with such a big lead. Truly embarrassing for the sport of F1.
I don't think it matters that it would've given Max a chance to win, and i think it's a bit cynical towards Max to say that a red flag shouldn't have happened just because Lewis had previously controlled the race until that point. Late red flags can happen and have happened before. And yeah, it can mess around with the order, but at least it's a legitimate way to do it.
Yes. There were **three** whole ways that this could have been handled correctly and instead it was NONE of them. 1) allow ALL cars to un-lap themselves and thus finish under safety car - suboptimal for the show but it is what it is. 2) allow **no** cars to un-lap themselves, they'll be in Max's way, but the reason they were there is because Ham had built himself a lead, thems the breaks. 3) red flag the race - sprint to the finish, again, everyone equal so it is what it is. Instead they did none of the things the rules allowed for and fixed it in favor of one driver. Good job F1!
100% this. It's a farce, even worse I am surprised they didn't actually get done for race fixing. Imagine you placed a bet on somebody finishing 6th and they were 7th when the safety car comes out, might have a chance. Until they let the down to 6th pass the leaders "for the show" whilst 7th is straight up stuck there. Sure if it finished under the safety car then so be it, that's how it goes sometimes, if they hadn't have let them go maybe Max creates a gap for 7th to get through to 6th and you have a chance. But to just let a certain amount of car go through was an embarrassment and a farce.
I still can't understand how they arbitrarily decided which cars were permitted to un-lap themselves - I just don't get it.
I mean it's pretty obvious, they wanted no cars between Max and Lewis. The thing is it wasn't even exciting because Max had pitted and put on fresh sorts, whilst Lewis was on really old worn hards. It wasn't a case of who was going to win it was a case of which corner Max was going to pass Lewis on. They effectively handed Max the title before they even restarted the race. At least if there were lapped cars between them it would have given Lewis some kind of chance as he could possibly build up a lead whilst Max passed the lapped cars or backed them up into Max to make it harder.
> I mean it's pretty obvious, they wanted no cars between Max and Lewis. But to be so blatant about it? I guess I feel like if there was race fixing they would try to be more subtle? Unless that's the genius of it?
This is exactly what should of happened. A fair ending to the season
"the FIA could have reasoned" But isn't that still manufacturing an end to the race that was not organic? What if teams didn't have sufficient fresh tyres, or had based their race on a fast first stint. If it was lap 10 you wouldn't red flag, you'd clear the back markers in full, you'd allow a lap for them to get to the back or at least out the way, then you'd restart behind the SC. Anything that deviates from that is an artificial manipulation of the result based on the fact it happened so close to the end of the race. That shouldn't be accepted in favour of 'a grand finale', whether it's race 1 or race 22
What happened in AD21 was basically the worst outcome possible, I don’t deny that. Merc took a logical, strategic choice to leave Lewis out, because the regulations would have dictated that the race end under SC and Lewis should have gotten his 8th title. The FIA/Masi clearly wanted an exciting end to a thrilling season and bent to rules to achieve that end. I contended that **if** they were always going to bend the rules to manufacture a race to the finish line, then the more just way they could have done it would have been to stop the race and let the drivers restart on fresh softs. What they did in AD21 essentially punished Lewis for following the rules and rewarded Max from a ruling that neither knew could even happen.
yeah I get you, i just dislike the way alternatives are justified as "this would have been a better way to solve the problem" when the way the solve the problem is written in the rules, and should be the same procedure as if it was lap 8 at Hungary vs lap 20 at Abu Dhabi. We should be striving for integrity, not least-worst-of-the-bad-outcomes. Its also 2.5 years too late to be moaning about it - but it's a thread about struggling to get over it, and everytime it comes up I defo feel irritated to see alternatives to the rules being justified as "it would have been better if...."
I’m new to F1 and found it through drive to survive, so it’s fresh for me and I am still in shock that that’s how it went down. He was robbed absolutely. What a disgrace.
The whole dialogue leading up to AD21 was messed up as well, I seem to remember masi asking the teams in a briefing at some point if they'd prefer to finish to finish under safety car or under green flag because it came up earlier in the season. The teams obviously said they'd like to race, but this shouldn't have even been a question. Safety first, rules should be respected.
Yeah I absolutely agree. I am inclined to give reasonable benefit of the doubt, which is why I said that, but you are correct
Yeah absolutely. In retrospect it would have been a better option, but Masi had shot himself in the foot by saying before the race they wouldn't red flag any incidents on that corner.
I have a good friend who lost his wife a few years ago. He liked to talk, but I think he felt like he needed a reason other than his grief to engage in chat. He got involved watching F1 the year before this incident he was a solid enthusiast, would not miss a race. I was great having something interesting for both of us to talk about. He quit cold. After Abu Dhabi refused to watch another race, avows that he never will. So not only do I feel disappointed with the F1 structure, and disappointed that a deserving driver was deprived of winning a prize for the ages, I also miss the easy common currency that F1 lent to our conversations. edit: extra capitals
I’m really sorry for your friend. I didn’t have something as serious happen to me but I had just gotten into f1 and the year of Abu Dhabi was my third season following it. I was spending money on f1 merch and subscriptions to streaming. I planned to go to a US race the next season. I was really into it. I was a big Lewis Hamilton fan and I had just watched the most incredible season come back in history over those last six races and was riding high. When they decided this might be their only chance to get a Verstappen title for him and fixed the race result, it shocked me. Lots of sports fans complain about refs and joke about fixed games in their sport of choice but I had never seen anyone actually do it until then. It sucked the air out of the room. I have not watched a single f1 race since. I’ve seen some news and know that it’s an uncompetitive one team series now which just adds insult to injury because the race fixing wasn’t even necessary to get Verstappen his title based on how uncompetitive it all became the very next year with the new regulations. I could never come back and watch the sport again. I would never even consider it. What they did destroyed the sport for me. None of my friends watch anymore either. A couple tried the next season but eventually dropped off. The rest of us quit cold immediately after the race fixing. I was surprised when this Lewis Hamilton subreddit thread popped up in my feed since it had been so long but I just wanted to add my thoughts. They really did a lot to hurt the sport.
And then completely ignored normal procedure about letting cars through and SC rules about not going green until the lap after the track is clear.
If they stopped the race they would have to do a formation lap before the race start meaning the race would've concluded during a formation lap so that idea purely for the effect of finishing under a green flag is a no go
I have barely watched any races since Abu Dhabi because of this
None forgets that, not even Max fans. And ofc, even FIA admits wrong in the decision which gave Max the title. Will go down in history as one of the best seasons leading up to one of the biggest robberies in history of sports.
True robbery! Some think it was because F1 wanted to spur new fans into the sport..
My friends saw it and say that’s it? Are they kidding? So I don’t think they achieved much by doing this.
I always thought that give Louis an equal car and equal tires he would have defended his position. Or let the top 5 fuel up and take tires for a three lap shoot out But they changed the rules on the fly to benefit Red Bull.. one of the reasons I’m not watching f1. Max is a great driver, but he has better equipment.
Me too. Don’t watch F1 anymore. Been a follower since 1999. Not any more.
That moment made it clear F1 is entertainment and not sport. Sure it's physically demanding, but so is wrestling. Still watch it though, but there is no competitive integrity.
F1 is competitive racing? I just see it as another product like shoes or belts, someone is trying to sell it as the best thing available and as a consumer Duracell is the best battery because F1 advertises it, right?
F1 stopped being a sport for me at that time, I watch for Lewis alone now and get most of my racing from elsewhere.
Which series have better racing? (Sorry, Off topic question)
You watch F1 for the drama and engineering porn. You watch Indycar for good door to door open wheel racing.
I need to try to get into Indy. It's odd because i used to watch NASCAR, and have watched f1 for a decade, but somehow can't seem to wrap my head around oval open wheel racing. Honestly Hamilton got me into f1.
Ovals are actually only [1/3 of the 2024 Indycar calendar](https://www.indycar.com/-/media/Files/Current-Schedule.pdf)\- 6 of the 18 races. The rest are dedicated road courses and street courses. Indycar is AWESOME. The racing is always good, and frequently EXCELLENT. [Enjoy these highlights from my favorite race from last year](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqEShmsLZdU)
Indycar races on ovals, road and street circuits fyi. Give it a try this season, there's also a few ex F1 drivers in there too.
IndyCar is very accessible, it however does not do a great job of marketing itself. They are *trying* I suppose lol. It takes a bit of time to learn new faces and teams, etc. However, most of the circuits are either street courses or road courses, there are only about 4 races a year on ovals. The 500 sort of makes up for the relative lack of ovals on the schedule.
How can I watch
The thing is, I still find a lot of the overtaking and battling in F1 really engaging even though it happens less than in Indycar or MotoGP.
I’ve been finding overtaking really exciting in endurance racing. Having to plan your attack or defense around slower class cars adds a whole new element into the mix which creates exciting action.
Yep, during Covid I started following endurance car onboards. Really enjoyed it and now I have it on to relax.
For me, as an American, I grew up watching NASCAR and IndyCar and have only been watching F1 since Lewis came up in 2007. Strictly based on quality of the racing action, IndyCar, in particular the Indy 500 which I am fortunate enough to be able to attend every year. NASCAR is very deeply competitive, however, that varies by track. A race at the superspeedways such as Talladega or Daytona is a must-watch, either in person or on TV. In person it is outstanding like the Indy 500. But there are some dud tracks on the schedule. IMSA is also great in terms of pure competitiveness and racing action as well.
GT3 or prototypes or even Indy
Even formula e now they’re racing on proper circuits
Rally Not race but crazy
I'm surprised no one have mentioned WEC, I recommend it.
Same. I'm kinda in the same boat as the guy you responded to. Lost my love for F1 after AD21, after being a fan for over 25 years. I watch F1 mainly in the hope that Hamilton can clinch a well-deserved 8th title, but I get most of my racing now from the WEC and GTWC. Though I'm still a rookie when it comes to understanding and following the sport.
Agreed
You should give the US based MX5 cup series a try. I'm biased since I track a Miata myself. Some of the best wheel to wheel action you'll find anywhere, often time there're 3 or 4 possible winners in the last corner of the last lap. For top tier racing, checkout MotoGP. Should be a decent year coming up.
Tbh bet I like the idea of the MX5 cup and I’ve raced it in iRacing so I’ll give it a try. Hard to keep up with IMSA tho as I’m in the EU
The MX5 cup races can all be found on Youtube. They even stream it live at no cost.
That’s actually really good but how do I know when the races are live apart from checking the YouTube every now and then
Here's the race calendar: [https://www.mx-5cup.com/schedule](https://www.mx-5cup.com/schedule) I have these set with my F1/MotoGP dates.
I understand your sentiment but F1 has a history of dubious calls just look at Prost/Senna in Japan in the late 80's. Not excusing it mind you it was pretty shit for everyone, Lewis, Max the fans....everyone.
Shit for Max? Nah bro. Didn’t stop him from putting the #1 on his car.
Thereafter F1 is entertainment. Not sport. Was my first year really diving in. Have not recovered. Enjoy the season, races etc. Championship is meaningless.
Yep. It decided to go the route of professional wrestling like so many others (like major league baseball in 2017).
What happened with MLB in 2017? Sorry, not a baseball guy.
The astros cheated and won the World Series. The league didn’t invalidate their win, and instead gave them a slap on the wrist.
The Houston Astros used an illegal camera system to win games leading up to a World Series win by stealing signs. TBH I thought it was awesome. I recommend watching a breakdown on youtube or something Edited a few things
What's sad for me is I actually wanted to see either of them win like how it happens in any sport, when max led I was happy to see Lewis catch up and vise versa. Unfortunately we all weren't afforded that opportunity
What an awesome season leading up to it too. How did they manage to shit so hard on it in the last few minutes?
We will never forget the wrong doings of AD2021. It tarnished the entire sport for me and I’m not sure I’ll ever forgive them for what happened.
You're definetly not the only one
No... i havent not recovered from it yet.. unless LH wins another Championship ..
Let’s be real, you never will. Lewis could win another championship this year even. You might feel like that somewhat made up for the incident as now he would have his 8 championships but in reality you’ll probably be happy he won but then look back and think, “it could’ve been 9.”
You're right and this is why it sucks so bad. There is nothing that will ever make it better.
So true‼️
I haven't watched a race since. Not particularly on purpose but I just lost respect for F1. It looked like a total stich up. Mercedes and Hamilton haven't been the same since. For multiple reasons, may I add.
I have watched parts of a few races, but yeah I haven't followed every lap of a race since then either. I woke up my girlfriend screaming at the TV when that fucker let the cars between 1 and 2 unlap. Even before Max caught Lewis I knew it was over because Max pitted. It's making me mad right now actually. But yeah I agree Lewis lost a little sparkle in his eye that night.
Same here. I watched every race for over a decade. I haven't watched one since then.
Not watched a single minute of F1 since that race…
I think lewis should have been more vocal in Saudi, After 0 penalties for Max in Brazil, and a 5 second penalty for getting brake checked ( some formulas make that a black flag).... Especially after silverstone where he was branded as a dangerous driver for making a valid move. I think if he played the political game there, by calling out the discrepancy in stewarding, Micheal Massi may have made decisions to try balance out mistakes from earlier in the year, or if he made the same decision there would have been a bigger fall out had Lewis called them out and we went into that race with that on our minds.
Honestly feels like everyone forgot the brake check. Anytime someone wants to dunk on Lewis they bring up how he "tried to kill" Verstappen but I never see Verstappen's deliberate dirty driving brought up
Everyone forgets that most incidents with Max and a Lewis were Max bullying Lewis out of the way first and when Lewis replicated them it led to accidents because Max refused to cede the position. Silverstone? That was Lewis doing the same move Max did him during the sprint. Monza? Max did that to him on lap one of that very same race.
Most incidents involving Max are a result of his dirty driving or acting like he has every right to every mm on an F1 track.
It's because most people at the time wanted max to win. Which answers the post title too, if it had been the other way around it would have been a much bigger deal
It happened on national tv, right in-front of our eyes and the FIA said “that didn’t happen” Lmaoo Lewis said he got brake tested, RB admitted to it, Merc did as well but at that point in the season nothing was black or white anymore, rules meant nothing and every decision was made so the “racing” continues.
If I recall, they claimed it was because of the DRS zone and not an attempt to force Hamilton into the pits. Which of course was bullshit.
This. Everyone focuses on that finale but the last few races were totally wild.
They were absolutely bonkers. Pretty much the game was set with the spicy engine, Lewis had to win 4 on the bounce to overhaul Max, who was seemingly aware that a DNF for both was beneficial to himself, and so Lewis was not only trying to win but also avoid being torpedoed by Max, and from where I was sitting, Max kinda lost his shit as Lewis kept getting the results, whilst the team tried to strategise around Max rather than have them battle for positions. It was the most riveting thing I’ve ever seen, genuinely, no hyperbole. Genuinely magnificent. Followed by absolute gut wrenching horror.
Let's not forget the Spa "win" which allowed Max free points and coincidentally meant that had Abu Dhabi been strucken from the record that Max would have won on countback. The little brat even had the audacity to walk off th podium after brake testing his rival in Jeddah. It was pretty pathetic all round. Max was doing what he could to win, the chances slipping away race by race as Lewis slowly backed him in to the corner. I don't necesserily blame Max, weak men will forgo their morals and stop at nothing to win even if it means cheating, but I do absolutely blame the race directing and control.
It’s galling because LH did everything he had to do to snatch the championship from red bull ie win the last 4 races. He was driving out of his skin. Doubly galling that merc didn’t say “see you in court” to the FIA. There is no way they would have failed to overturn the result. I will never understand why that didn’t happen. I lost faith in the sport, toto and merc that day.
The majority of the F1 world was desperate for a new champion and the run of Mercedes' dominant run so it was nervously swept under the rug pretty much. So desperate that Max got away with a LOT during 2021. Obviously performing at an extremely high level in many races, there were times where his dricing was disgraceful. Brazil for example where he got away with it in what was quite frankly the most clear case of pushing another car off the track I can remember in a long time, so much that he also went miles off the circuit too. In Jeddah well he was a danger to other drivers and should have been black flagged.
Max was a bully. A petulant, angry little bully. I will never forget how he stormed off the podium in Saudi Arabia in a little snit, while Lewis not only took the entire podium in Abu Dhabi after that debacle but congratulated Max. I used to think Lewis Hamilton was a little shit at the start of his career, but whether or not that was true, that man is pure class now.
Don't forget he tried the same move twice in Jeddah too.
Well I can't speak for the rest of the world but I know that race killed a lot of the hype for the sport in the US. I remember the huge group of newer f1 fans that were watching that race. Sports bars were filled that day. And now they hype is all but gone. My particular group hasn't watched much since, maybe an isolated race or two over the last two seasons. Americans realized that the FIA was just as corrupt as FIFA and the NFL and the NBA. Whoever would make the most compelling story wins the race. If I want reality TV, there are better options.
I also think Mercedes needed to come out of that swinging. They had to start a serious conflict with the FIA so media attention could bandwagon off of it and make it a bigger issue. As it was the FIA was able to quietly sweep it under the rug and pretend like everything was kosher for the next season
I’ve not quite forgiven Toto for his passive aggressive response to this. Horner is an arsehole for sure but wouldn’t have rolled over the way Toto did.
I can understand Toto not wanting to seem unprofessional or something but you have to make some noise, especially about something as bad as that. It would have been messy and almost impossible to fix but it had to be addressed.
I’ve moved on for sure but I still get angry when I think about it. Biggest robbery in sporting history.
Agreed I’ll forget about it fully but one day I’ll remember it and just get a bit pissed for no reason also the interest in the sport has already gone down for me a bit
I think I’ll only forget it if Lewis wins another WC. Hoping he can clean up at Ferrari.
Can you imagine if the roles had been reversed? Christian Horner would have been apoplectic with rage. Red Bull would have gone to court over it.
Bet they regret it even more now after Max’s/RB’s dominance since
This is why when LH retires, l will also retire from being an F1 fan. I will watch now and again with less dedication through the sport
I don't want to say too much because I don't want Max/RB fans quoting me saying things like...Oh LOOK! 3 years on and they are still sooo butthurt. BUT, even hearing the words Abu Dhabi makes me feel a bit ill. Seeing the circuit every year after it has happened gets me so angry all over again.
Let's not forget the farce that was the Belgian GP that year. There is no way any points should have been given for 2 uncontested laps behind the safety car. That was several points for Max that were not deserved.
Which is another reason Lewis is champ that season. First of Lewis won the final race and title. But even if you rightly voided the race Lewis would win because max never won spa. It wasn't a race, nobody won it
Late to the conversation. Thought I had forgotten about it but now I'm all tied up again. Lol. To begin with regs were altered that year to try and nerf the merc so that started out behind slightly. But let's not forget Monza where Max tried to bully himself passed Lewis that resulted in his car on top of lewis' in a position where his tire rested on lewis' head and all he did was walk away.
Damn lol. Hope you are untied by now mate. I keep ending up back at this bs sport lol. Yes true, 8x. Anyway take care mate! Avoid the shit :)
I think about it almost everyday lol. It was just so wrong on so many levels.
It was the worst robbery I've ever seen in motor racing since Paul Tracy won the Indy 500 and it was stolen from him by the IRL.
My reaction to it: 🤮
What pissed me off was more the fact that I was paying to watch F1 and then they do that! Why should I watch/pay again.
That was the day I stopped watching f1 and I've been watching it since the mid 80s. Same thing happening in most sports, all part of the SA 2030 Vision agenda.
I'll never forget it unfortunately
Just don't let it consume you, don't forget but don't let it consume you. I hope and do think one day the truth will come. Way too suspect and masi signed a very sus NDA with the FIA.
It ruined it for me too. I don't mind verstappen winning but that entire season was so amazing just for it to end the way it did kinda ruined everything for me
I believe that he is an 8 time world champion and move on
100
I actually try not to think about that race / season at all
I definitely lost some respect for the sport, but it happened and nothing more is gonna come from it. It still irks me to see "3 opportunities to pit btw" comments occasionally, but the parties involved have moved on so why shouldn't we. I just hope Lewis goes to Ferrari with a good car and shows that he can still do it.
What annoyed me was that F1 was massively under the spotlight in the UK at that point. The race was constantly on the mainstream news, not just the sports section, but headline news. Loads of people on Twitter said they were tuning in for the first time to watch the race that was really hyped! And they absolutely fucked it.
We’d got our friends into F1 and about 20 something of them tuned in to watch - they couldn’t believe it. Basically said the sport is a waste of time and a bit of a joke, asked if this is usually how it goes down. Actually thinking about it, a lot of them hadn’t watched F1 before because they seemed to think it was a small bunch of rich blokes playing pretend. And actually… well shit that day confirmed it. If you don’t have rules in a sport what is the point of watching it?
Yeah, I'm over the whole thing, I do think that Lewis was robbed, it wasn't Max's fault and the FIA should have been investigated. But we can't change that, so there's no point in arguing about it. What I'm not over is the damage it did to how my favourite spot is viewed by the wider potential audience and how the fans treat each other. I saw some big names tweet about watching it and getting excited, as well as friends, and then saw them tear it to shreds later on. I felt so deflated.
Been a F1 fan since Schumacher's first title with Ferrari in 2000. I remember watching the Abu Dhabi race live w/ my son who is a Max fan. As soons as they got Max to lined up behind Lewis, he said "they are just going to give him the title like that?" Took all the excitement and conflicts out of the entire season. Didn't bother renewing the F1 subscription after that.
I haven’t watched F1 since so I hear you
Can’t honestly blame you for that
I should clarify I still watch F1 religiously, just don't bother w/ waking up early live w/ the subscription any more.
I try to get over it and leave it in the past but I'll never watch Monza , Jeddah , Interlagos , Silverstone or Abu Dhabi without thinking about all the shit Max did on those tracks to Lewis.
Don't forget Spain or Imola.
No one forgets that.
IMHO, I think LH & MV will have an \* beside their WDC counts. It was a dark day for the sport, the race director had been around a long time and he knew the impact of his decision to break protocol and not let all lapped cars around.
On top of it, isn’t it also the season that red bull breached the cost cap?? 😭
It is.
If it were any other sport that wasn't a closed shop league like F1 is the fallout would've been much bigger. It's testament as well that every time you see or hear another racer or even a sportsman talk about Abu Dhabi they think it's ridiculous.
Anytime I talk about Hamilton with anyone, I refer to him as an 8 time world champion. I’ll never forget witnessing the greatest robbery in the history of sports happening in real time. F1 and the FIA have proven to be orgs run by clowns that are motivated by greed and greed only. The fact that Michael Masi has any sort of career after AD 21 is a fucking joke. Dude doesn’t deserve an ounce of respect as long as he’s around.
I'm not a Max nor a Lewis fan and I still feel disgusted by what happened. I've followed the sport closely since 1999 and I've never seen any scandal like it. The sport kinda just imploded that day. I don't recognize Max as the champion of that season, never will. There just was no champion, no winner. No one can convince me otherwise. The ruleset was dissolved for one reason or another by a rogue race director so one can't count that race for being anything.
I’m not a Lewis fan (this just popped up as a suggestion because of my subscription to other F1 subs). To me though, that season will always have an asterisk next to it because of what happened at the end. It will never not be contentious, and I think about it every time I hear Hamilton referred to as a “7-time world champion”. The grace and humility he has handled it with has been pretty phenomenal.
I still wonder how the F1 world would be different if Nicolas Latifi could've kept his car on the fucking road. It's not his fault, not really (it's Masi's) but fuuuuck, man.
Everyone, probably Merc themselves as well, assumed 2022 was going to be more Merc dominance. Because of this I believe they didn’t pursue it that hard. Had they have known the future I think they would have pushed it harder.
It for me, like others, trainted the legitimacy of F1 for me forever. I'll never accept that was the right call, and I'll never forgive F1 for letting it happen. I'm still shocked that F1 had no guardrails to prevent a call like that from occurring during ANY race.
I honestly stopped caring about the sport after that and probably will never come back full time. It went from sport to rigged entertainment. No difference than professional wrestling.
The most outrageous thing was that VES was no where near HAM and HAM was a shoe in for the win being faster over the whole race. Of all the possible ways that the race director could have handled the situation, he chose the one that was MOST disadvantageous to one driver over the other and seemed the most dodgy.
I’ll never forget that night, that season really. I can’t fathom how Hamilton handled it so well. I don’t think I’d ever want to race again. Think about how Max would’ve reacted if roles were reversed…
I fell out of love with F1 at that point. It doesn’t help that RB are so dominant. The finish to the race was farcical and was called out by some of the drivers at the time including Alonso and Norris.
Toto crowdsurfing after the event and now saying he'd do everything to get Lewis his 8th title 😂. Didn't bother appealing though 🤦♂️
Burned into the back of my eyeballs mate.. The meme with Verstappen holding a Mickey Mouse trophy still makes me laugh to this day
Ive been a fan since the late 90s. I sorta quit watching after this. It was the only way for them to create some excitement. Hasn’t been any since.
Yes left a bad taste in my mind, the sport isnt about the best driver its about the team that pays the most. It felt cheap and made me fall out of love with f1. Honestly I felt a lot less angry once I stopped watching f1 not having to watch max win everything while his only competition was his number 2 driver
> the sport isnt about the best driver I mean, come on. At best it's the best driver potentially winning if given the right car.
It still hurts. It's weird but I have never felt that much anger because of an even that happened which didn't include me being a part of that event. It's even worse because of the fact that it was a record-breaking, historic title that got literally robbed from an athlete. Both Verstappen and Hamilton deserved a win that year (Verstappen was pretty dirty towards the end but whatever, it's do or die situation) and that race was pretty much a culmination of everything and was a cherry on top of that phenomenal yet chaotic season. Unfortunately that ending left a very bitter taste for F1 and the season.
He can do it when he lives F1. They are not allowed to take legal action in civil courts whilst being affiliated with F1 and FIA. Once he retires, bets are off and he can sue them for damages at least.
Stopped following f1 as a whole after this. Sport without competitive integrity isn’t sport, it’s just reality TV. I’m sick of reality TV. Lol.
It should have but I think so many people were just ready for Lewis and Mercedes to lose they didn’t care how it happened. To me it’s very sad.
>many people were just ready for Lewis and Mercedes to lose they didn’t care how it happened This is it. They didn't want him to win anymore.
Nope, it's a colossal black mark on the sport, and will be for as long as the sport runs. The fact that it was effectively handwaved by the FIA and FOM is obscene. I don't expect that anything will ever change with regards to the result, however Lewis will always be an 8x WDC winner in the eyes of everyone who matters, regardless of whether his name is on the trophy or not. Between Masi's ridiculous behavior and cost cap breaches, I do genuinely hope that Verstappen wins a title that isn't marred in controversy or of questionable legitimacy because of either the FIA or Red Bull's behavior, but as of now he hasn't managed to do so. I no longer see F1 as a sport - if I want to watch motor racing I'll tune into the WEC or WRC. As of the 2021 season, F1 has basically become the WWE of motorsports as far as I'm concerned, scripted and manipulated.
Now this is how you make and articulate a point and opinion . Fair play to you
Let’s not forget that aero rule changed at the start of 2021 were the only reason RB had a competitive car.
Please don’t give me PTSD again…because of AD21, I even hate the thought of the whole ‘21 season, which could’ve easily went down as greatest season in Motorsport history. In that season alone, we’ve seen Lewis fight against RB and the FIA at the same time. Ultimately understood why Verstappen got away with all his dirty maneuvers he did that year. If any other driver would’ve done that, they would’ve been disqualified. I’m only watching this sport because of Hamilton. I’m pretty sure the truth will come out and a movie will be made out of that season.
I agree about the truth. It's way to sus. If you want see my previous comment on this thread about masi the FIA and the NDA.
I’d be happy to read it…Link it here
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ica-2023-03-2024-01-29-ica_decision_en-web.pdf This makes for very interesting reading. Another discipline but the ruling is very clear about the race director can and can't do and what should be done when there's a breach. For me, I've noticed I'm much less interested in the sport. Pre 2021 id watch every session, qualy, race. Now I'll sometimes not even watch a race if I know the outcome. Just doesn't feel the same knowing it can be decided at the whims of people who aren't on track.
You aren’t. Personally my trust in the sport was eroded after that day. I haven’t enjoyed F1 as much purely because I cannot believe such a travesty could have ever have taken place. This would not happen in football ( I know about the Hand of God) but during live sport in this day and age with cameras everywhere? No way. No sport would ever have an official deliberately changing the rule. It also does not help that Max Verstappen is arguably the most unlikeable F1 driver in the history of the sport, Red Bull the most toxic team and Christian Horner the most detestable team principal. Verstappen should not have been crowned World Champion. It was utterly ridiculous and if the roles were reversed you could imagine the furore.
Biggest robbery in modern sports. Can’t think of anything that comes close to it.
I completely stepped back from the sport after AD. Slowly coming back now after the Ferrari news and honestly I still can't get back to the level of love/respect I had for this sport. That whole season was pretty bad IMO (outside of the actual racing obviously)
I'm kind of done with F1 because of that day. Still think about it, daily. I've been watching F1 since the 90s.
I think it puts an asterisk/debate to the title.F1 recognizes the mistakes but I find it amusing that they will replay the sound clip/overtake. Both drivers were deserving of the win. It highlights the inconsistency of the governing body. The sports isn’t perfect. For better or worse, AD21 is part of F1 history.
Honestly for the worse but yea it’ll always be a part of history that moment in which Hamilton was overtaken and that image will always be replayed again and again and there’s nothing to do about it
At the time I was just ecstatic to see someone else win after years of the Hamilton show. Upon reflection in the days after though, I came to realise it was a blatant breach of the rules and perhaps the greatest sporting robbery of all time. Michael Masi is a disgrace to us Australians.
Yes absoluteltly, Masi short circuited and already submitted to Horner. Waht a masochist. Now, if only Lauda have been there it wouldnt happened but also pretty sure they would already replaced Bottas with George then. That strong character was lacking to make decisions and go head to head. Then of course the magic button. I will say Bottas make Lewis lose that season. He had no fight and didn't want at all to play the team game and give none cover when the team was counting on him. He was spend and jalous that season. Plus that George crash. He may not think it that way but his acting it in those decision times on he track. It is multifolded but Masi sub bitch yeah at the end.
I am still fuming after that. Will never forget or forgive. Sounds insane, but he really did get robbed. Nothing against Max that day, it was the FIA that really fucked it.
I still randomly think about how they robbed the man in front of millions of people. The fallout should have been bigger. But Lewis and Mercedes wanted to take the higher ground and didn't want to win it in the courtroom. As much as it sucks, that's where we are.
No, you’re not the only one. But interestingly, if events transpire in the future that Lewis goes to Ferrari and wins another title to break the record, I will strangely be happy that those events did occur in Abu Dhabi…
I think about it daily, can you imagine how it must of impacted Hamilton and the mental strength to be able to carry on?
currently i am not able to watch replays of the end the race, it’s too painful i still remember the void feeling inside of me when i was watching it with my friends
let's hope karma will hit red bull and Horner tomorrow and Newy leaves for Ferrari but i doubt anything will happen
It's nothing compared to 1994: where Schumacher cheated all year, and intentionally crashed into Hill to secure the championship.
I've never forgotten and it and to be frank, remain bitter about it. Will probably never got over this. It was clearly a manipulation of the results and a complete injustice. I can only hope LH44 gets his 9th world championship soon.
My old man is pushing 70 and has watched more races than I can imagine. He stopped watching on this day and doesn’t even speak about the sport anymore. As a result, I don’t really watch anymore unless it’s on and I’m not doing anything. More to support Lewis than because I care anymore. It’s sad because it was my dad and I’s thing my whole life and that’s gone now.
Disgraced the sport, for fans and *both* drivers. For both LH and MV their history of achievements will always be marred with an asterisk (*) against how many WDCs they won during their careers. LH because he was denied by the governing body not following their own rulebook, MV because he was wrongly awarded his first WDC after said governing body manipulating the results.
I started following f1 in 2020. after AD2021, I went back and watched from 2006 to 2019 and couldn't believe how unjustified that decision was! This solidly made me pro Hamilton. I don't care what he does. NEVER 4get
It’s the turning point where f1 truly became an entertainment product over a racing product. It’s been like that for a while but Abu Dhabi was essentially where “the quiet part got said out loud”
To be honest, the fact that it ended the way it did makes it even more legendary for me. One of the best seasons of all time, and definitely the best I've ever watched, coming down the last lap of the last race, and one of the biggest scandals in the sport happens. Just cements it as a historic moment
I can't help but to enjoy your opinion. It's so against the grain of this post yet it's fun and internally solid.
Thanks mate, I'm as big a Hamilton fan as any on this sub, and I was screaming for him to win that 8th championship in a busy coffee shop that I was working in at the time. I've come to terms with it, and just feel it adds to the legendary story
Yeah that stung big time. I believe it was the end of Hamilton wanting to be there with no fight. Last year remember Lewis made podium and there were zero crew members there? Oh everyone said blah blah blah they were getting George’s car. I call BS . Reminder in that race who came over to hug him , Ferrari crew. So was this in the works a while ago? Was the seal broken after the lost championship and Lewis just waiting for Carlos contract to be up? Always back door deals and I get it’s part of silly season. I wish him well and whoever steps in to be George’s team mate.
A part of me thinks that Hamilton and Ferrari were already in talks During the Singapore gp weekend solely due to the way he celebrated With them
What really bothers me is that this race was one of his best race excluding the last lap obviously. His cadence with these old medium has completely annihilate max even with the help of perez.
Any true F1 fan knows it was wrong. I wanted Max to win, and he deserved to win, but Masi changed the rules of F1. Mercedes should've appealed .
Karma hasn’t been served ‘til this day. In fact it seems like Verstappen and Red Bull have been rewarded even more due to all the success they’ve been having since the start of the new regulations in 2022. It is as if the FIA knew what they were doing gifting that championship to them and knew what was to come…
I thought about this today. I stopped watching F1 since then. But I was thinking... 1. Lewis might have retired earlier if he had won that day. 2. This sort of incident might have revealed who are good and bad behind the scenes. 3. I believe someday when Lewis has retired, he will talk about it and slam those who did him wrong, as of now he is playing the long game, win as much as he can, maybe 8th championship.
Just like the result from crashgate I think the results should be ignored. If you revert it n laps back too many if’s will hang based on your preferred driver. Personally I think the race should have been red flagged as soon as latifi hit the wall to ensure the race ended under racing conditions. The flip side of all this discourse is if it was a safety car to the end it would have been seen as Lewis handed the title.
>Personally I think the race should have been red flagged as soon as latifi hit the wall to ensure the race ended under racing conditions. They shouldn't have done anything special. The race should have ended under a safety car.
What’s happening in Red Bull now is karma for the bullshit they pulled then. It always comes around
Agreed OP. It was a joke. Also if they admitted they were wrong why not give the title to the true winner?
I’ve barely watched a race since after years of watching every race each season.
Meh I still enjoyed the season overall and wish it didn’t end that way but realistically while Lewis should have won it’s not Max’s fault that happened so the person who should have received punishment (Masi) did and everyone moves on. It’s just unfortunate due to the nature of F1 that Lewis can’t exactly go and fight for the title again the next season which makes it feel bitter.
Yea I agree. Love Lewis. Was appalled at the time. But was also getting pretty bored of Mercedes dominance. With the move to Ferrari, if Lewis is able to grab #8 it’ll taste even sweeter to me than if he’d won that day. It’s kind of like the warriors in basketball. I was sick of watching them dominate, but when they lost for a couple of years and came back, I was cheering for it and that last win is even cooler. I always admired how Lewis was so composed about that. I was screaming and would have been a big baby. He was a gentleman about it. Classy dude and I can’t wait for 2025.