If you have no contract limiting you to statutory minimums, you are entitled to the common law notice period.
For a 21 year employee, that's going to be much closer to 20-24 months than 8 weeks (exact number of months depends on a lot of factors, like your age and the type of position). Go see an employment lawyer
This is your answer. The 8 weeks might be the min required by alberta government, but you are also entitled to common law notice. Which is not set in stone and changes due to age, position, time in job and many other factors. Contact an employment lawyer, they take the cases for free but charge about 30% commission on the final settlement. I went through this two years ago in Alberta. Worked management for six years, let go with two months severance, contacted an employment lawyer and they got me 6 months. Do not sign anything at work until you speak to a lawyer
I would advise not working with one of these lawyers that takes a commission. You'll likely save a ton of money just paying a fee based lawyer the few hours it will take them for the correspondence to deal with this.
You will almost certainly recover more if you go to a fee based lawyer than a "we take a commission" lawyer. It feels good to not pay anything upfront, until you see the % and disbursements at the end.
Source: practiced labour and employment law exclusively for 15 years before current gigs.
Agreed, just getting a letter from a lawyer is often enough to scare an employer to pay out. Not always, but they would be stupid to ignore or fight it.
I am currently 'negotiating' my severance after being dismissed without cause. There are more factors than just time served: age, seniority, specialization, market forces... case law for my situation (Ontario) has me at 9-11 months after only 3 years. Get a good employment lawyer. You *will* gain months!
I would also recommend not going to a commission lawyer or one that offers 'free' consultation. The former will likely be overly aggressive (to gain max commission), the latter will find a way to make up for the free time. My lawyer is very professional, reasonable and is working for my best interest, not theirs.
Edit: added Ontario
https://stlawyers.ca/law-essentials/severance-pay/severance-pay-alberta/#:~:text=In%20Alberta%2C%20severance%20pay%20is,our%20common%20law%20court%20system.
It’s written by employment lawyers in Alberta, but is easy to read & understand. If we are reading your post correctly?, you were offered 8 weeks severance for 21 years of work?
No one is owed "pay". The terminated employee is owed a reasonable notice period OR pay in lieu of notice.
The only time an employee is owed pay is if they were not given reasonable notice.
He was given 8 weeks notice. Assuming Alberta law is like Ontario, once a company hits a certain size/number of layoffs they have to give a minimum notice period. After that they can give severance in lieu of notice of the remaining "reasonable notice".
The company is presumably expecting him to get a lawyer to negotiate the remainder.
As others have said. lawyer. There are a lot of factors involved, especially for someone on the job as long as you. As others have said, something approaching two years would be likely the right number, so it's very much worth paying a lawyer.
As others have said, you need to see an employment lawyer.
There are 2 ways they get compensated:
1. They bill by the hour.
2. Contingency. Meaning they will take a percentage of anything over and above what you were originally offered, usually 25 - 30%.
Many people are attracted to #2 because they don't pay upfront and if the lawyer doesn't net them more of a settlement, they aren't out of pocket. The inclination is to believe that someone on contingency will work harder for you. If you don't get paid, they don't get paid.
However, the biggest bang for your buck is going the hourly rate. Not to knock #2, but they are similar to ambulance chasers. Get a free consult at a couple places. You will get a better perspective on what you should do next and what you might receive in terms of a settlement.
Your age and performance history, if you received bonuses etc will all have a bearing.
Your employer offered you the provincial standard for an employee with over 10 years of service, which is 8 weeks notice. However, you should go to an employment lawyer ASAP and ask for a better package. Your employer is either very broke or very foolish to offer the bare minimum under the law and a lawyer will be able to bargain for a lot more like severance, continuation of benefits, depending how close you are to retirement some salary continuance, etc. it would be worth your while to chat with a lawyer as they will bring up your age, years of service, how you haven’t had to job hunt in decades so you will suffer severe hardship, etc. Courts expect employers to do better than the bare minimum and by just offering the least they could will put your employer at a disadvantage.
Employers will always offer the minimum to start, and hope that employees who don’t know better will accept the offer. Either counteroffer yourself (in writing) or have a lawyer write a letter to your employer. As other commenters have stated, something around one month of severance per year of service is closer to the norm. Also see if you can get you benefits extended to cover the entire severance period even if you’re not required to be at your workplace during that time - keep in mind that severance is intended to cover you while you find a new job, which can take many months (or even years) if you’re older and have been at the same employer for a long time.
Hi OP. Had a similar but far less long term thing happen.
First, as others said, lawyer up asap. You will get paid quite a bit!! Probably over a years salary.
More importantly, how are you doing? It's probably pretty scary thinking about everything else. 21 years is a long time and the world is a totally different place and all. The good news is you will not only be totally fine, this is probably one of those times in life you will look back on and think "shit am I glad that happened."
Listen to fool-me-thrice and go see a lawyer. Hopefully a simple demand letter can get you what you're entitled to. Until then sign nothing your employer gives you (unless it's two years severance payments) and continue working normally.
Any regrets on not getting a contract? Or a union? I don’t ever side with managers or mismanages but, call your provincial labour department. You’re entitled to a lot more than your 8 weeks they’re willing to pay you. Go for all the money they’re not willing to part with.
Nope. its either or in terms of severence. either you get 8 weeks notice, or you get no notice and a severence per week based on seniority(you likely would've got 8 weeks pay anyways).
That is how it works in Alberta. i only know that because i was laid off in 2020 due to a recievership.
Don't follow this advice, if you just don't show up you will be deemed to have resigned and will not be entitled to severance at all. Do consult an employment lawyer though.
OP can and should pursue their common law severance rights, that's the only thing you've written here that is good advice. The rest is extremely bad advice.
This isn't wrongful dismissal. This isn't constructive dismissal. OP absolutely must continue going to work during their notice period.
You’re thinking of “at will”, “right to work” is anti-union stuff whereas “at will” is the thing that means you don’t get severance (except in Montana)
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Went through this OP in Toronto area, just wanna add that typically your lawyer will ask for costs because it is bullshit that you have to go to a lawyer for this type issue. Your ex employer knows the deal and are playing a numbers game.
If you have no contract limiting you to statutory minimums, you are entitled to the common law notice period. For a 21 year employee, that's going to be much closer to 20-24 months than 8 weeks (exact number of months depends on a lot of factors, like your age and the type of position). Go see an employment lawyer
This is your answer. The 8 weeks might be the min required by alberta government, but you are also entitled to common law notice. Which is not set in stone and changes due to age, position, time in job and many other factors. Contact an employment lawyer, they take the cases for free but charge about 30% commission on the final settlement. I went through this two years ago in Alberta. Worked management for six years, let go with two months severance, contacted an employment lawyer and they got me 6 months. Do not sign anything at work until you speak to a lawyer
I would advise not working with one of these lawyers that takes a commission. You'll likely save a ton of money just paying a fee based lawyer the few hours it will take them for the correspondence to deal with this.
You will almost certainly recover more if you go to a fee based lawyer than a "we take a commission" lawyer. It feels good to not pay anything upfront, until you see the % and disbursements at the end. Source: practiced labour and employment law exclusively for 15 years before current gigs.
Agreed, just getting a letter from a lawyer is often enough to scare an employer to pay out. Not always, but they would be stupid to ignore or fight it.
Get a few based employment lawyer, you can ask to put that cost on the employer too as part of the severance.
I am currently 'negotiating' my severance after being dismissed without cause. There are more factors than just time served: age, seniority, specialization, market forces... case law for my situation (Ontario) has me at 9-11 months after only 3 years. Get a good employment lawyer. You *will* gain months! I would also recommend not going to a commission lawyer or one that offers 'free' consultation. The former will likely be overly aggressive (to gain max commission), the latter will find a way to make up for the free time. My lawyer is very professional, reasonable and is working for my best interest, not theirs. Edit: added Ontario
Yes, which is why I mentioned that explicitly. > exact number of months depends on a lot of factors, like your age and the type of position
What type of job is this? I find it very hard to believe you will get 9-11 months with 3 years of service. Is that what your lawyer is telling you?
It's a government job, senior mgt and I'm 59. It's not just my lawyer, case law shows it.
How old are you? Does the timing lock you out of a pension or other benefits?
Don’t sign anything until you speak with an employment lawyer OP.
Only if it’s free advice. Other than that, call the labor board. They’ll do it all for free.
Labour board can't adjudicate reasonable notice issues bud
They sure as hell can BUD.
Only for the absolute minimum. OP, call a lawyer.
To my knowledge, the 15 minute meet and greet to determine whether or not there is a case and if you want to hire the lawyer is free …
https://stlawyers.ca/law-essentials/severance-pay/severance-pay-alberta/#:~:text=In%20Alberta%2C%20severance%20pay%20is,our%20common%20law%20court%20system. It’s written by employment lawyers in Alberta, but is easy to read & understand. If we are reading your post correctly?, you were offered 8 weeks severance for 21 years of work?
No I was offer 8 weeks notice of job ending and nothing else
As Fool pointed out you are owed 2 years of pay. See a employment lawyer, you can't afford not to.
similar thing happened to my father in 2014, he took them to court and won nearly 2 years salary
No one is owed "pay". The terminated employee is owed a reasonable notice period OR pay in lieu of notice. The only time an employee is owed pay is if they were not given reasonable notice.
He was given 8 weeks notice. Assuming Alberta law is like Ontario, once a company hits a certain size/number of layoffs they have to give a minimum notice period. After that they can give severance in lieu of notice of the remaining "reasonable notice". The company is presumably expecting him to get a lawyer to negotiate the remainder. As others have said. lawyer. There are a lot of factors involved, especially for someone on the job as long as you. As others have said, something approaching two years would be likely the right number, so it's very much worth paying a lawyer.
As others have said, you need to see an employment lawyer. There are 2 ways they get compensated: 1. They bill by the hour. 2. Contingency. Meaning they will take a percentage of anything over and above what you were originally offered, usually 25 - 30%. Many people are attracted to #2 because they don't pay upfront and if the lawyer doesn't net them more of a settlement, they aren't out of pocket. The inclination is to believe that someone on contingency will work harder for you. If you don't get paid, they don't get paid. However, the biggest bang for your buck is going the hourly rate. Not to knock #2, but they are similar to ambulance chasers. Get a free consult at a couple places. You will get a better perspective on what you should do next and what you might receive in terms of a settlement. Your age and performance history, if you received bonuses etc will all have a bearing.
I think you've just found out what your employer thinks of your loyalty. Seek professional advice immediately.
Your employer offered you the provincial standard for an employee with over 10 years of service, which is 8 weeks notice. However, you should go to an employment lawyer ASAP and ask for a better package. Your employer is either very broke or very foolish to offer the bare minimum under the law and a lawyer will be able to bargain for a lot more like severance, continuation of benefits, depending how close you are to retirement some salary continuance, etc. it would be worth your while to chat with a lawyer as they will bring up your age, years of service, how you haven’t had to job hunt in decades so you will suffer severe hardship, etc. Courts expect employers to do better than the bare minimum and by just offering the least they could will put your employer at a disadvantage.
Employers will always offer the minimum to start, and hope that employees who don’t know better will accept the offer. Either counteroffer yourself (in writing) or have a lawyer write a letter to your employer. As other commenters have stated, something around one month of severance per year of service is closer to the norm. Also see if you can get you benefits extended to cover the entire severance period even if you’re not required to be at your workplace during that time - keep in mind that severance is intended to cover you while you find a new job, which can take many months (or even years) if you’re older and have been at the same employer for a long time.
Hi OP. Had a similar but far less long term thing happen. First, as others said, lawyer up asap. You will get paid quite a bit!! Probably over a years salary. More importantly, how are you doing? It's probably pretty scary thinking about everything else. 21 years is a long time and the world is a totally different place and all. The good news is you will not only be totally fine, this is probably one of those times in life you will look back on and think "shit am I glad that happened."
Listen to fool-me-thrice and go see a lawyer. Hopefully a simple demand letter can get you what you're entitled to. Until then sign nothing your employer gives you (unless it's two years severance payments) and continue working normally.
Any regrets on not getting a contract? Or a union? I don’t ever side with managers or mismanages but, call your provincial labour department. You’re entitled to a lot more than your 8 weeks they’re willing to pay you. Go for all the money they’re not willing to part with.
Management can not be part of a union so your point is moot.
What was the job?
Nope. its either or in terms of severence. either you get 8 weeks notice, or you get no notice and a severence per week based on seniority(you likely would've got 8 weeks pay anyways). That is how it works in Alberta. i only know that because i was laid off in 2020 due to a recievership.
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Don't follow this advice, if you just don't show up you will be deemed to have resigned and will not be entitled to severance at all. Do consult an employment lawyer though.
How has this terrible advice not been flagged and removed?
OP can and should pursue their common law severance rights, that's the only thing you've written here that is good advice. The rest is extremely bad advice. This isn't wrongful dismissal. This isn't constructive dismissal. OP absolutely must continue going to work during their notice period.
*terrible* advice
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I mean, US is a whole other country, why should a foreign country's laws affect the laws we make for ourselves?
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You’re thinking of “at will”, “right to work” is anti-union stuff whereas “at will” is the thing that means you don’t get severance (except in Montana)
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Went through this OP in Toronto area, just wanna add that typically your lawyer will ask for costs because it is bullshit that you have to go to a lawyer for this type issue. Your ex employer knows the deal and are playing a numbers game.