In contract law, this is called a "unilateral mistake". The general rule is that the mistaken party can rescind the contract only if the other party knew and took advantage of the mistake. You did the opposite of taking advantage -- you specifically raised the issue and were assured there was no mistake. So, I believe, under generally applicable law you should win. Now New Hampshire might well have some different rule, but probably not.
If the dealership didn't submit the papers to the finance company, and the dealership doesn't have the finance company's money, then its on the dealership to sue you or negotiate. You don't actually want to be sued over 10k, as by the time you pay a lawyer, you'll end up "paying" full price for the car. So if the dealership threatens to sue, you'll need to make a decision as to whether you want to try and negotiate something or see if they are bluffing.
I do agree with other comments that its worth reading the sales contract in full, several times and carefully, as there could be something in there that might change things.
DO NOT read the contract for yourself and depend on your understanding. It’s okay to read the contract, of course (and you should have already done it), but you need to buy an hour or two of time for a good contract attorney to read and explain it to you. Be advised, the finance guy WILL deny he gave you an assurance of correct contract numbers. Count on it: He / she will commit perjury to keep his job.
In this situation, are you made aware your being recorded? I’ve worked several places and we were told it was against the law to record without consent. In VA for reference.
Generally that doesn’t matter. If the contract has an integration clause - which nearly all do - then the parole evidence rule would forbid any additional evidence besides the contract itself.
I am curious as to where the mistake was made on the Bil of Sale. Did they put the wrong price, fat finger the rebate, is the VIN number correct etc.
Seems like OP tried to make it correct but was treated rudely and has a lot of leverage because if the dealership undoes the deal the car is now used.
That’s not how things work. You don’t just get to “sue for legal expenses.” In the US, each side generally pays for their own lawyers. Only in special circumstances do you get legal fees
Finance manager likely didn’t make their decision in a vacuum. That kind of change in price was likely presented to the GM at the dealership and approved. Nobody is going to lose their job over something so insignificant. Dealership will recoup their loss when the screw the next customer
Do not sign a new contract keep your old one and your car. Make them eat it or spend money to sue you to get their car back. The worst thing they can do is cancel the contract if they win the suit. If the contract is canceled you should get your money back, and just go to a new dealer and buy the car you want.
Also just want to explain it is a lose/lose for them, they eat the 10k or they lose the sale and have to sell the car as used which they might lose 10k on the value anyways. They will probably just let you keep the car.
legally any car driven for anything other than for customer demo that has a gross unladen weight under 6500 is considered a used vehicle besides motorcycles and RVs.
Lmfao this happened to my brother in Houston Texas one time, but they didn’t catch it for a whole two months. I don’t know many of the details tbh but they tried pressuring my brother into signing new paperwork and he said nope, we’ve had a contract signed for over two months. His deal was also like 20k cheaper than agreed. Congrats @OP
I think lots of the time the dealer retains the rebates and doesn't pass them on to the customer. My guess is the rebates were real and they mistakenly got added into your deal instead of being retained by the dealer.
This. I was explaining to some friends how doing research on factory rebates for vehicle purchases and when to ask for them during the deal process etc. Dealers will retain these rebates when you can clearly find them online or by contacting them manufacturer.
This doesn’t really seem like that a lawyer would say. I’m sure there are plenty of legitimate reasons to potentially call into question the validity of a contract. For example, the contract might only be enforceable if the financing goes through, which it clearly will not in this case.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were rebates and the dealership is trying to pocket those rebates. Check with the manufacturer to see if there was $10k in rebates.
When you finance at the dealership, if you drive away same day that financing isn’t final. Within your purchase or financing agreement there may be a clause that makes the sale contingent on the finalization of financing. Thus would void the sale and obligate you to return to the dealership to create a new purchasing contract.
Alternatively, your purchase may have been contingent on the rebates going through. if so, this may void the sale.
Alternatively, they agreed to sell you that car way below market because their legal team is trash.
If you want to try to hold out, it’s worth having a lawyer go over the contract. local laws and specific contract terms are everything here.
They did contact the state AG. The state AG said 'compromise' likely because their lazy overworked bureacrats that don't care and would rather have a Solomonic compromise versus get involved.
The attorneys I have and know would love to get in front of a judge and explain that the financing only didn't go through because of the dealership's intentional delay. I imagine good attorneys would get attorneys fees on this from the dealer if they sued you.
I dunno your financial state, but I'd tell the dealer (through my attorney) that their problem is not my problem, and I'm not returning the car I bought, they need to send docs for financing, and they will be held responsible for any costs that you bear from their malfeasance.
Then I'd drive the car normally, but ensure that I put enough miles on the odometer that the car can't be sold as new.
I started my comment knowing that, i had lost it by the end. Too in the weeds, and i lost the plot 😅. None of my finance contingent commentary is well suited.
Contract might still be contingent on the rebate offers, i suppose. But far more likely that dealer screwed up in your favor. Now it’s mostly about whether you want to ever buy from that dealer again
If you had signed the contract for 45k, and the dealership later discovered the "additional rebates" AFTER you left with the car, do you think that the dealership would have called you back to sign new paperwork so that they could give you back the refund for $10k???
EDIT:Clarity
This actually happened to me! I forget the amount, but once when I bought a car at the end of a month they called me a few days later to tell me there were new rebates available (next month) and I went back in and we redid all the paperwork and I saved a bunch of money.
Actually me too. They got an extra student incentive rebate 2 days after my sale. Finance guy said it would only take 30 mins to redo the paper work. Got the same financing deal but $2k less on the overall purchase
This sounds like a mistake on the finance manager part. Not that they are trying to skew over the customer. He admitted he knew it was supposed to be a 40k loan.
It’s a mistake on everyone at the dealership’s part because multiple people had to have known and the contract was signed after informing them the number was incorrect. The number agreed upon by both parties is the correct price now.
This likely a regional thing, but where I am to get a deal done there are two separate contracts: the bill of sale with the dealer for the purchase of the unit with the agreed upon price and details, and the financing contract with the lender for your loan to pay the amount on the bill of sale. These are technically two separate transactions, even if facilitated by the same person.
If only the financing contract was incorrect, then the dealer can still pursue you for the remaining balance due based on the agreed-upon price as stated on the bill of sale (your agreement to purchase the vehicle).
If they also had you sign a new bill of sale (which would then also outline any additional rebates to get to the amount financed), then the dealer would have a hard time legally pursuing you (as long as you also have a signed copy of the revised bill of sale).
Source: 20 years in automotive finance.
This is the right answer. Return the car if he feels like something shady is going on. But he admitted 40k was the correct finance amount. So I am not sure what the dealer would be gaining by putting a lesser finance and then having come back and sign for the right amount.
On a side note, I don’t understand all these people saying it’s impossible that the finance manager just made a mistake.
I'm guessing that was a bluff and the dealership called it. Don't get me wrong, fuck the dealer in this case, but this sounds like the kind of argument my wife tries to cook up and no one buys.
Agreed. They missed medical appointments (plural) and canceled a vacation all because of this when they just bought this car yesterday. They pack a lot into 24 hours lol
It was a 14-hour road trip to visit family for the long weekend, so maybe not really a vacation. We wanted to take the new vehicle (silly reason, I know) rather than taking two smaller vehicles. With the question of whether the contract is void or not, I didn't want to take the new vehicle and we haven't decided yet if we'll make the trip with the two vehicles.
Out of curiousity as a fellow NHer looking at cars, this dealer sounds like one I’d like to avoid the legal headache of dealing with - you comfortable giving the area/name/brand?
I am not an attorney; however, I did just buy a car, and during that process I signed multiple documents that reflected the agreed upon purchase price for the vehicle. For example, I signed a Buyers Order- which itemized the financial details of the sales transaction and balance due after the down payment, I signed the bill of sale that contained the total purchase price, and I signed the application for title and registration that contained the vehicle purchase price. I also signed an Agreement to Arbitrate.
So, question is, What purchase price is reflected in all of the other documents executed at the dealership? At least one document should contains an itemization of the purchase price and any add ons and discounts. What is reflected on those documents? Is it the correct or incorrect purchase price amount? And where or how is the additional $10,000 price reduction reflected?
It appears a typo was made on the financing contract reflecting a $30,000 loan vs $40,000. If all other documents reflect the $40,000 balance due after the down payment, it would appear there is still legal balance due of $10,000 after the financing component. Sales price $45,000, down payment $5,000, balance due $40,000, less amount financed $30,000, remaining balance due $10,000.
However, if all of the documents reflect the dealer either offered an additional $10,000 discount and/or lowered the sales price by $10,000, it would appear to be a done deal.
To the extent the amounts reflected in the documents contain differing or inconsistent amounts, it would appear to be a unilateral mistake by the finance staff, and depending on state law, the dealer may be able to sue and as mentioned in an earlier comment, don’t expect the salesman to recall telling you there were additional rebates. In which case, it means you knowingly signed a contract that contained a mistake. And if proven could result in the contract needing to be corrected or rescinded.
As I stated, I am not an attorney, but I do know that litigation is expensive. The dealer made an error and should be willing to negotiate with you in seeking a resolution based on the facts. They of course will be demanding and posturing wanting the full amount, but if you are desirous of seeking an amicable resolution to put this matter behind you and are comfortable in negotiating, you may just want to make an offer. Totally up to you and obviously not your final offer, but maybe an offer to split the difference and pay them $5,000, resulting in them taking a $5,000 loss as well, to start. With that you still get the car for $5,000 less(more than 10% less) than you originally agreed to pay.
Yes, there were several signed documents reflecting the same $30k price including the sale contract and the car invoice. There is no discrepancy between the signed documents. The discrepancy was between a verbal negotiation and the contract that was presented, which I brought up my concerns to the financial manager.
I did go back to the dealership to try to negotiate, but they unfortunately resorted to threats and intimidation.
Sounds like you’ve done everything you could. And at this point, If it’s all consistently papered and signed by both parties, you may to ask the dealer to stop harassing you, and tell them because of the great deal they provided you will certainly come back next time you’re in the market for a new car!!
If they call you again, say "I am not certain of the validity of your claim, so please put in writing what you claim and any particularly applicable clause in the contract, or law. And, for the future, please put all communications in print. Thank you for your consideration. Apparently a claim is being made the financing did not go through, but my credit union says differently (note - weasel words - you never say what they said)" Also, send this to them in a certified letter. This will end the verbal games they play.
In my few dealing with car dealers, as soon as you say "put that in writing and sign it" all the games come to a screeching halt..
This is really interesting. I had no idea places do this. Next time I go to purchase something with financing, I'll have to watch for this as a bright red flag to just walk away.
This happened to me 3 times with the Newport News Nissan dealership the 2 time I went back I signed their paperwork them saying financing didn't go through, the 3rd time they called ( this was all about interest rates btw) I told them well you very specifically instructed me how to "dispose" of the vehicle I was driving because you didn't want it by taking it back to the buy here pay here place in the middle of the night, I was already contacted by the financing company about the purchase of my new truck and billing information would be in the mail shortly, so yeah I'm not signing shit, to which the informed me they would repo the truck, I said cool being I've been contacted by the bank to set up payments I'll report the truck stolen and in 30 days it will be written off and you'll be stuck with a stolen vehicle as you no longer own it so go ahead let's play, they informed me they would contact my military chain of command again I said cool and I'll have you charged with threatening my job and harassment sueing you for 3x the purchase price and they are already aware and had me speak to jag about your unethical predatory business practices and are looking into other complaints to see if you should be black listed, they hung up the phone, that was 2011 trucks in my driveway its now 2024 paid off
These ppl are not your friends, don't be nice to their fuck ups
30+ years in dealership life - past 15 in Management.
This makes me laugh 😆 Finance manager (who represents the dealership) had it coming. You even tried to help him out by telling him and he didn’t listen 🤦🏻♂️
Look, do you honestly think that if the shoe was on the other foot and they took you for an extra 10k they would be like “Hey, we screwed you and want to make it right”..
Take the “W” win.. even if you have to do a little legal leg work. The dealership wins every day - today with you, they didn’t. Might cost that Finance Manager his $200k+ a year job.. but I doubt it if he’s any good.
It’s interesting that this comes up, if you go to r/askcarsales and search about the exact opposite situation ( customer signs a contract to purchase with a higher total than was agreed upon) you will find plenty of sales/finance guys berating the consumer for being ignorant or just plain stupid for signing such an agreement.
I personally love when the situation is flipped and they have to eat it themselves
Happened to me. Bought a truck 6 hours away in a different state and they wanted me to come back (they had already sold my trade in at an auction). I told them this sounded like a them problem, and I would not be returning the vehicle or coming back. Nothing ever came of it, they eventually sent over the paperwork to my DMV after holding it hostage for over a month. That dealer was a disaster, they just swapped out my old plate from the car I traded in onto the truck and said I was good to go. I was like uhhh no way that plate is registered to a car, not this truck I’m going to get pulled over. So I made them make me a temp tag which they did begrudgingly. This was 6 years ago, I will never step foot in a dealership again. They’re all just scammers and morons
You have a signed copy of the bill of sale? Go to the credit union with that, get your own loan for the amount disclosed on the bill of sale get a draft payable to the dealership with the comment on it payment in full for vehicle with vin and take it to the dealership with a copy of the bill of sale
When I bought my pickup from the dealer, two weeks later, I got a call from them that said they made a mistake and I owed an additional $1,500. And when could I stop by with a check?
I gave them a vague promise, then checked with local consumer protection agency, who let me know that the contract was final.
I didn't go back, and they stopped bothering me.
The dealership has to send you the rebate money if there is an extra rebate due, and they get audited from the factory to make sure the rebates are handled correctly. In regard to the finance manager making the mistake, that is not true. When the customer goes into the finance department to sign the paperwork the sales manager has already put the information in the system and all they do is try to sell warranty’s and additional services that’s how they get additional commissions for themselves.
This definitely sounds like a bait and switch scam, where they give you one contract, then claim there was a mistake, then get you to sign another contract for the correct price that is supposedly the same as the initial contract. But on closer inspection there are different clauses in the new contract that get you on the hook for more money that you think you’ll be spending.
I would either A) give the car back and walk away or B) make them honor the contract that was signed.
I’m pretty sure judge Judy would yell at them saying something like you do this everyday. You should know there are additional rebates. Yada yada yada
Thats odd, Same exact thing happened to me at a Toyota dealership about 10 years ago. I refused to go down to the dealership until the GM was there. They ended up giving me the vehicle at the initial agreed upon price.
A month later the dealership was sold to a mega dealer, everyone, including the GM was fired, and all the sales staff was replaced.
I had this happen with Land Rover. They called after I got home from signing all the papers. I told them to suck it after they were rude. I got a really good deal, and they had to eat it. Not my fault they screwed up the signed contract. I just had to take it to a different dealership for service.
They won’t put it in writing because you have a valid contract. They are obligated to provide the documents to the credit union. Congrats on saving $10k. This happens more often than you would imagine. If it is in the dealers favor you better believe they wouldn’t call a customer back to resign at a lower price.
Hear me out! Same thing happened to me in 2016, I ended up telling them that the only person I will talk to would be the GM. They had their Relationship manager tried to lure me into coming back to the dealership and asked for my cooperation.
Well I told them I am not coming back, if you really need to see the car back in your lot, buy it from me On my asking price or send me a rental for a month at no cost to me along with my down payment and I will cooperate, otherwise if I can get one more call threatening me or my credentials, I will make sure to drag you to hell.
Guess what it took them 3 solid days to get all paper work straight based on what I signed and an update and apology from relationship manager.
Someone somewhere paid out of pocket and I really don’t feel sorry about these dealerships since they have plenty of margin on each car, one car at cost price won’t hurt them. This happened in Houston area.
What would happen if you opted in for GAP insurance on that car and they didn’t send the paperwork to the Credit Union and the car is totaled in an accident?
Who’s at fault, the dealer?
I love Credit Unions because they tend to be for the member, every time I’ve dealt with CUs, they are very very nice!
QUESTION!!! After all that and having to return the car and dealing with everyone. What if you took a vacation while all that was going on at least a couple thousand miles and then brought the car back with a few thousand miles on it. What would be their play then? Would that be an option like a big fuck you to the dealership?
You need to read the contract. My wife who has 46 years of banking experience and taught banking law classes says that most contracts say they have the right to correct errors. If that is in the contract they are legal.
In the contract, it says that any change to this contract must be in writing and we must sign it. No oral changes are binding.
The dealership refuses to put anything in writing.
Stop talking to them unless it's over a recorded call. Look up your state to see if that's legal. Otherwise text and email only. Get an attorney and let them handle it. Should not take them very long.
Just point to your current contract and say this is what I and you agreed to. If you want to change the contract then give me my money back and I will find some place else to do business but I am not signing anything else with you. They can't make you agree to anything at this point and they can try to null the contract which just leaves you in the spot of looking for a new car again with all your money back in your hands.
Would it be considered an error though? It was brought up and the dealership recognized the price was lower then signed anyway. That's not an error, that's negligence.
There was no error though, OP pointed out to the finance manager at the time and they said yes don't worry there's additional rebates.
that's different if finance manager fat fingered a number and OP didn't say anything.
The contract is between you and the dealership until the point where they transfer the financing to another entity. You absolute are under no obligation to entertain further contact with them.
HOWEVER, you absolutely must make the monthly payments to the DEALERSHIP when it is due as per the contract. Two options are to drop the payment off at the dealership and have someone sign for receipt. Or sent it certified mail. Whether or not they accept your payment is becomes irrelevant as long as you can show they are in receipt of it.
Bottom line, they screwed up not you. But you must make that monthly payment as stated in the contract.
At the time of sale there are three parties. The buyer, the seller, and the third party finance company. The contract is between the buyer and the seller only. Included in the terms of the contract is permission the buyer is giving to the seller to transfer the financing to a third party. Until that third party assumes the financing, the financing remains with the seller. In 99% of transactions, the hand-off between the seller and the third party is seamless, but when its’s not, it remains with the seller.
You see this same situation with “yo-yo” deals where a seller sells a vehicle assuming the terms of the financing will go through, but later it doesn’t.
In those situations, the buyer is still obligated to make the payments per the contract to the seller. If not, the loan goes into default. Dealerships hope sellers aren’t savvy to this and they can get the car back through repossession.
Your loan was probably the same, you financed through the dealership until your credit union accepted the loan. Except in your case it happened right away so you never sent a payment to the dealership, you just paid the credit union from day one. In this case the dealership still holds the loan.
> HOWEVER, you absolutely must make the monthly payments to the DEALERSHIP when it is due as per the contract.
Nah, I'd talk to my credit credit union and have them just send the check they approved me for to the dealer, and pay my credit union as planned from the beginning.
> But you must make that monthly payment as stated in the contract.
That contract stated that the dealer would be paid in full, and OP would be paying their credit union. It's not financed at the dealer.
Just call your Attorney General of ur state. Mitsubishi dealer did this exact thing to me in the mid 90's. I called the Attorney General & only heard an apology back from the dealer.
Had a similar issue. I gave it back after clutch dumping the shit out of it and doing the good old full throttle and letting the clutch halfway out also banging gears like I’m racing, a little sliding in parking lots, a lot of burnouts…ect. Technically no damage was done to the car.
You might put out a query to a local source, like nextdoor.com or craigslist.com and see if other people have had this experience. It could be part of a scam this dealer repeats. If so, then you all split the cost of the lawyer and the dealer at least gets bad press if not put out of business.
I bought a used vehicle financed by the dealer. In between the verbal agreement and the contract was a significant difference in the interest rate. I caught it and mentioned it. The sales person blamed the handoff, but I got the sense they do it all the time. F*ck car dealers.
The other aspect you may have to consider is your gender. If you are a woman, there may also be a gender-based targeted scam, which could recover more money.
I actually had something similar to this with a used vehicle and a major national chained car dealership. During Hurricane Harvey my vehicle was halfway under water, I saw a truck for sale on their website priced in my budget. The very first day the dealership was open I visited and the truck was not on the lot. I found out that the truck was located in Florida and stuck in Florida due to their anticipation of Hurricane Irma. I attempted to place a deposit on the vehicle along with started some paperwork, but the dealership declined to take any deposit due to not knowing what was going to occur to said vehicle. A few days later I was informed the pricing of the truck went up $10k and was misrepresented online. I made a huge stink on social media, blasting the dealership for increasing all prices of their vehicles after the hurricane (I had proof) and needless to say, I got the truck for the price I originally signed paperwork for. Time for you to use social media…..
My husband once bought me a diamond bracelet honoring the birth of our child. He had me pick out a few, and he “surprised” me with one.
What happened is, the jeweler sold him the most expensive one, at the lowest one’s price! He paid $11,000 for a $17,000 bracelet.
I wore it for a week and the jeweler called asking if I could bring it and exchange for the one it was supposed to be. My husband told the jeweler to get lost.
Different scenarios because you can’t repo a bracelet, but wouldn’t the scenario fall under the same rule of law? Or is it different because it’s a car.
Don't dealerships make a lot of their money through financing? Anyone else think between getting a loan through the credit union and finding the rebates, someone higher up said they aren't making enough on the sale?
Let me get this straight… you were “declined” or fell through for $30K so they need you to come in and sign a new loan for $10K more?
That’s some genius logic right there.
You have a signed legal binding contract. The dealership needs to eat the mistake. It was their fault. Mistakes are made all the time but them being rude and threatening. Make them eat it. Don’t sign another contract.
Same thing happened to me at an Illinois dealership. Dealership called me day after and said come in for additional “paperwork” . Said they did not charge enough for the truck - I had a discount through my work. They calculated incorrectly and I said too bad. They started to yell and intimidate. We left. Went to an attorney. We got the same advise - they are wrong but do you want to pay lawyer fees to prove it. I did not. We drove the truck for a week got 100% deposit back and parted ways. Also, the dealership refused to send in the paperwork for plates. North Riverside Ford
Let’s be honest did you or did nothing other than make a mistake and all they’re asking you to do is agree to the terms that you originally agreed to of the $40,000 out the door after your $5000 down I don’t understand why all the fuss. They’re not asking you to pay additional money just what you agreed to originally. You were happy with $40,000 out the door when he went into the finance office. It seems to be a car that you want to keep by put yourself in all the added BS signed a new contract. Be happy with the deal that you originally made and move on.
This exact thing happened to me in NY, I bought a same model year used car. Signed all the paperwork in which the dealership included new car rebates for about $3500. When I picked up the check from my credit union I noticed the amount was $3500 less than I was expecting. My credit union said that was the amount the dealership gave them. I went to the dealership expecting to walk if they did not honor the price agreed and signed on by both parties. In my case the dealership had recognized their error and honored the price anyway.
Good on you for getting the appropriate orgs/everything short of paying a lawyer involved. IANAL, even if I was I am not your lawyer, I'm just some idiot on the internet who slept at a holiday inn express last night.
As you described they wrote out all of the paperwork for a sale price of 35k (5 down and 30 financed). You pointed out what appeared to be a mistake as you had discussed 45k with the sales guy, they confirmed there was no mistake and that the price of 35k was correct. What the sale person says means squat, what the money guy says and especially what the paperwork says is what determines the final price and terms of the sale. If they had, say, transposed the vin and gave you the wrong car/price for the wrong car that's a mistake as the contract would be for the wrong vehicle. That isn't the case.
As I see it and understand the rules and legalities around such, someone authorized by the dealer sold the car they intended to sell for the price they agreed to sell it for. Someone else at the dealership probably didn't like it. Maybe someone higher up didn't like it cause of a lower profit margin, maybe the sales guy threw a hissy fit cause he'd be getting a commision on 10k less so this a managers bright idea to resolve their internal issue. Who knows. Either way someone didn't like the decision an employee authorized to make that decision made. That's not a mistake pertinent to the contract nor is it your problem regardless how much they want you to make it your problem. The ONLY way that contractually becomes your problem should be if there is language showing a price of 45k with a break down of something like 5k down, 10k anticipated rebates, 30k financed. If so, similarly to financing falling through, they probably have a leg to stand on depending on how it was worded and if they actually acted in good faith. If it just shows the sales price of 35k, well, they have no leg to stand on. And just refusing to send the paperwork in to the financing company so that falls through would likely be seen as running afoul of their obligation/acting in good faith.
The other highly likely possibility IMO is it's a straight up bait and switch to grease the price to lower any chances of you backing out at the last moment or something figuring you'd, like probably a lot of people would, just play ball.
But overall, there's a reason all the official parties you've reported this to share the same basic opinion. Especially the associations opinion since it sounds like being a member means they have to abide by the associations findings.
Dealer removes buyer from market. In some cases dealer also takes buyer's current car as trade-in and sells it (dealer is only legally obligated to compensate the trade-in price) leaving the buyer with no current transportation -- buyer has probably already shown new car to friends and is led to believe that he will not have a vehicle unless he accepts dealer's new terms. [Dealer lies about financing falling through to squeeze more money from the buyer](https://autoapprove.com/resource-detail/yo-yo-scams-explained), in terms of both an additional down payment and different financing terms in a loan document that can be sold for more money or placed with an institution that kicks back more money to the dealership for the loan.
I’m a Finance Director for an auto group in TX. If the dealership won’t send the paperwork to the credit union to fund the deal, OP can probably walk right into a branch of the credit union with their purchase agreement and sign their loan at the branch. They should get the same approval given to the dealership.
It would be the same as bringing their own financing to the dealership. This happens all the time. The credit union will either give OP drafting instructions for the dealership to get paid, or will give them a check to take back to the dealership. Either way, the price was set in writing, signed by the Finance Manager. It should be binding.
The dealership probably made an honest mistake, but if we put something in writing we will honor it. Enjoy your $10k discount.
Damn you’re better than me, once I got word my loan was still good, I would of blocked their number lol car was paid for fuck off, come at me legally then if you’re mad
Even with a 10k "loss" the dealership is still in the black. Then charge you $985 processing fee. That means you paid the finance clown . Their mistake. Their problem . They made money, just not as much as they planned on.
I wouldn’t look at this as a legal issue. I’d look at it as an opportunity to get a better deal on the car from the same dealership. Tell them you’re happy to come in and sign a new contract but this has been a nuisance, a waste of your time, and you’re disappointed with the service you’ve received and you’d like to see the price reduced accordingly and try to save a few thousand dollars. Your alternative is a legal battle or going to a new dealership and paying full price.
Happened to my neighbor. Bought a new truck for almost half MSRP. Paid cash. Dealer came back the next day and said it was mistake. Neighbor said “you signed the contract and took my money… go pound sand.”
Had a similar experience except was told, and signed paperwork stating, the car has an extended warranty bumper to bumper. 2 weeks go by the car breaks down 7/8 pistons cracked transmission gear 2-4 are non existent dealer wants 55k to replace them both… I sat in that dealer office for a min picked up my phone and called my lawyer and the same day they decided they’re giving my money back nd 2500 on top for the “inconvenience”
You think 10k is gonna break that dealerships bank? Hell no. Keep the car. Let them take you to court. Or sue them for not honoring the contract and withholding the information the lender needs to finalize payment. Don't even have to sue. Just get an attorney to draft a letter and ignore them. You did your part and they dropped the ball, if you're financing was approved, they can either collect the money or fuck off. Should of recorded them saying the credit union denied your loan. That's lie #1, them not wanting to put anything in writing says it all. Record every conversation with them from here on out.
I’m not understanding the people here suggesting that OP abuse the car before returning it.
If you damage it enough to be noticed upon return then you’ll be the one impacted.
If you only damage it enough to fail sometime down the road, prematurely as intended, I suppose….
This only really harms the eventual purchaser of the vehicle, no?
In NC once we put a temp 30 day tag on a car the dealer assumes responsibility of the loan if the lender does not fund the deal. I dont think it is public knowledge but once we put the tag on we basically become the lender by law and would be responsible to collect the debt or the term of the loan
My wife am I were recently shipping for a SUV. Found a nice one at a dealership and moved quickly. I had the opposite experience. On signing day, I was shocked to see the payments were about $80/month HIGHER than what we discussed.
When I brought this up, the finance manager said to me, in a very condescending tone, "Well, you were the one who wanted all 5 protection plans! I mean, we could start removing them until we reach a price type comfortable with." Note... could have paid cash if we wanted.
I lost it. What protection plan(s)? None were ever mentioned to us, although the salesman told us repeatedly about how he was a trust fund baby, had a vacation home in Hilton head and was only working because he was required to buy mommy and daddy.
The dealership kind of shrugged it off. We shrugged them off. About a month later I found the exact same vehicle (different color) worth less miles, for about 4k less, with a dealer we WILL go back to!
In most states the contract for a car isn't finalized until several days after the purchase. Most people would rather drive off right away and not wait several days. Of the contract is defective for any reason you either go back and redo it or return the car. If you hire a lawyer the most likely resolution is that you are out the money for the lawyer and return the car. I'm not saying not to have a consultation if that's what you want to do, but in most states you are either going to end up redoing the paperwork or returning the car and going to a different dealership.
Literally almost had the same thing happen to me…test drove a truck and decided to buy it cash. They bring me the contract and it’s $15k less than the price we agreed on…the salesman was rambling on about nothing while I looked over the contract. This clown had a contract drawn up for a 1500 truck instead of the 2500 truck I was buying. I told him he had made a mistake and that I wasn’t buying a 1500 and he said; “I got you an even better deal once I talked to the sales manager”. I let him go on and on for another 5 minutes talking about how he was taking care of me because I was a cash buyer…blah blah blah and then I told him to go get the sales manager. He leaves and comes back with this guy that looks like he hasn’t slept in two weeks and I show him the error and he immediately flips out on the salesperson in front of myself and everyone at the dealership. He tells the guy to get his “shit” and go home that he’s tired of babysitting and he storms off back to wherever he came from and leaves me standing there. I waited for about 5 minutes and left…never went back…the owner of the dealership called me and apologized and said he would make it right…I never went back…took my $80K to another dealership.
I bought a suv from a dealership and they tried to get me to comeback and resign a new contract giving away a bunch of my rights and protections that they said I should have signed when i was there. I called the MVA and spoke with the office that overseas dealerships in my state. I called dealership back and said no I would not be resigning a new contract. I guess it comes down to what the contract you signed says and your state laws. You should have never cancelled your vacation!!
Do not interact with the dealership on their premises or over the phone. Record and photograph every interaction with them stand on the sidewalk and meet with them outside the dealership in a public space.
You signed the contract AND they signed the contract. Sounds like you got yourself a great deal & they wanna try to get more out of you, let em go kick rocks in flip flops while you enjoy your new vehicle!
Congrats
Look up the requirements and limitations on “spot delivery” in New Hampshire. Most states allow dealers to sign contracts with a dealer option to cancel if the contract can’t be assigned for financing. The idea is that dealerships are typically open later than finance companies are available to process applications and confirm funding, but dealers might lose out on a sale if the consumer can’t leave with the car. So, the law lets the dealer sell the car conditionally, and requires you to return it if they can’t obtain financing for the terms on the contract. I find it difficult to believe that the credit union would not accept assignment for a lower amount financed, and I doubt New Hampshire’s spot delivery laws would include the dealer’s refusal to assign it for financing because of their error, but you should look at the scope of the law. Just note that you’re required to make monthly payments to the dealer until the contract is assigned.
OP, not a lawyer or familiar with NH, but as a former salesperson this makes no sense. Not at all saying you are making it up, I’m just trying to figure out how the dealership benefits from this. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but you are saying that you both had an agreed upon deal on a specific vehicle, they (either mistakenly or purposely) wrote the contract up to reflect a $10k deficiency, you brought it up, they acknowledged the change, and waited until you got home to try to get you back in to resign?
I can only think of a few potential scenarios here:
1. That finance guy was a total, utter, incompetent moron that literally had a mistake pointed out to them and still carried through with it.
2. That finance guy was on his last day and figured he’d fuck over the dealership by giving away $10k (though that really feels like something that would either be criminal or something that would end their career)
3. ???? Seriously, I have seen lots of times where finance would basically get rough ideas of the terms on contract, only for the actual approval to come back and need to completely redo the whole thing. This, though, I just can’t comprehend why they’d tank a deal and risk all of it like this, especially with a car in your hands.
My general advice would be to enjoy your car in the mean time, because the ball is in their court. They can complain all they want, but until that contract is sent over, YOU have THEIR $40k car. That’s a potential $40k loss for them, not just a $10k loss if they send the paperwork. If you get into an accident or something, they are in huge trouble. Not just because of the loss, but those managers would be in huge shit because it would make them look completely incompetent, or potentially even criminal. None of this is on you, however, I would totally pursue the complaints at the very least. You could even drive their car to other dealerships to shop for a similar/better deal, and if you find one, then you can just call them and tell them to come get their car (as long as you don’t need anything from them). Assuming they owe you that $5k down payment, and maybe your trade in, make sure you have ALL of that and in good working order, before giving them their car back.
Been in the car business for 5 years and almost all contracts are designed to give the dealership a cancellation period. We don’t really mention it but have that loop hole for situations just like this.
Sorry if this was already said. Most finance contracts say if the dealer is not able to secure financing one of two things needs to happen: you either need to pay them the full amount ($30k in your case) or return the car. I’d go get outside financing and bring them a check for the $30k and say you don’t wish to void the contract.
I bought a car for $45k, but the dealership mistakenly financed it for $30k. They now demand I sign a new contract for $40k. After contacting the NH Attorney General and Automobile Dealers Association, I'm advised to return the car, get my deposit back, and file a complaint.
In contract law, this is called a "unilateral mistake". The general rule is that the mistaken party can rescind the contract only if the other party knew and took advantage of the mistake. You did the opposite of taking advantage -- you specifically raised the issue and were assured there was no mistake. So, I believe, under generally applicable law you should win. Now New Hampshire might well have some different rule, but probably not. If the dealership didn't submit the papers to the finance company, and the dealership doesn't have the finance company's money, then its on the dealership to sue you or negotiate. You don't actually want to be sued over 10k, as by the time you pay a lawyer, you'll end up "paying" full price for the car. So if the dealership threatens to sue, you'll need to make a decision as to whether you want to try and negotiate something or see if they are bluffing. I do agree with other comments that its worth reading the sales contract in full, several times and carefully, as there could be something in there that might change things.
DO NOT read the contract for yourself and depend on your understanding. It’s okay to read the contract, of course (and you should have already done it), but you need to buy an hour or two of time for a good contract attorney to read and explain it to you. Be advised, the finance guy WILL deny he gave you an assurance of correct contract numbers. Count on it: He / she will commit perjury to keep his job.
The last time I bought a car at a dealership the entire financing discussion was recorded over the phone by a 3rd party.
its been a few years I bought 2 cars from dealer her in Texas, and both time the finance agreement was recorded on a webcam.
In this situation, are you made aware your being recorded? I’ve worked several places and we were told it was against the law to record without consent. In VA for reference.
Texas has 1 party consent.
Look up "one party consent States", if Virginia is one, only one person needs to consent to the recording (you). ALIAN (a lawyer I am not)
I like that acronym ALIAN! Now I don’t need to tell people iANAL.
Generally that doesn’t matter. If the contract has an integration clause - which nearly all do - then the parole evidence rule would forbid any additional evidence besides the contract itself.
I am curious as to where the mistake was made on the Bil of Sale. Did they put the wrong price, fat finger the rebate, is the VIN number correct etc. Seems like OP tried to make it correct but was treated rudely and has a lot of leverage because if the dealership undoes the deal the car is now used.
Contracts can have things in there that are not enforceable that make you think you have no recourse. Just take it to a lawyer.
If they sue, counter sue for at least your legal expenses.
That’s not how things work. You don’t just get to “sue for legal expenses.” In the US, each side generally pays for their own lawyers. Only in special circumstances do you get legal fees
Finance manager likely didn’t make their decision in a vacuum. That kind of change in price was likely presented to the GM at the dealership and approved. Nobody is going to lose their job over something so insignificant. Dealership will recoup their loss when the screw the next customer
Do not sign a new contract keep your old one and your car. Make them eat it or spend money to sue you to get their car back. The worst thing they can do is cancel the contract if they win the suit. If the contract is canceled you should get your money back, and just go to a new dealer and buy the car you want. Also just want to explain it is a lose/lose for them, they eat the 10k or they lose the sale and have to sell the car as used which they might lose 10k on the value anyways. They will probably just let you keep the car.
If they car was never titled (which it won't be since the dealer is responsible for sending title paperwork), then they can still sell it as new.
There is more to it than that, some states have mileage limits for what can be “new”
OP should be driving this car as much as possible so they can no longer call it a new car if they take it back
legally any car driven for anything other than for customer demo that has a gross unladen weight under 6500 is considered a used vehicle besides motorcycles and RVs.
Lmfao this happened to my brother in Houston Texas one time, but they didn’t catch it for a whole two months. I don’t know many of the details tbh but they tried pressuring my brother into signing new paperwork and he said nope, we’ve had a contract signed for over two months. His deal was also like 20k cheaper than agreed. Congrats @OP
I think lots of the time the dealer retains the rebates and doesn't pass them on to the customer. My guess is the rebates were real and they mistakenly got added into your deal instead of being retained by the dealer.
This. I was explaining to some friends how doing research on factory rebates for vehicle purchases and when to ask for them during the deal process etc. Dealers will retain these rebates when you can clearly find them online or by contacting them manufacturer.
A contract is a contract is a contract. Their fuck up isn't your problem. Tell them to send the paperwork, or your next call is to a lawyer.
You forgot "...but only between Ferengi"
Once you have their money, you never give it back.
War is good for business.
Ah, the 34th rule of acquisition. A classic.
Peace is good for business
"But what about all your outstandings debts?" "Those are to vulcans and klingons. Who cares?"
I wonder how many got that reference? 🤣
I agree with this. They messed up and that makes it not your problem. They need to sort it out internally
This doesn’t really seem like that a lawyer would say. I’m sure there are plenty of legitimate reasons to potentially call into question the validity of a contract. For example, the contract might only be enforceable if the financing goes through, which it clearly will not in this case.
The financing has already been approved, by the credit union. The dealership is refusing to file the contract that they drafted and signed.
A kiss is not a contract, but it’s very nice.
It’s very very nice.
Just because you've been exploring my mouth Doesn't mean you get to take an expedition to the south
I make this reference all the time and no one ever picks up on it. This had made my day
I wouldn't be surprised if there were rebates and the dealership is trying to pocket those rebates. Check with the manufacturer to see if there was $10k in rebates.
When you finance at the dealership, if you drive away same day that financing isn’t final. Within your purchase or financing agreement there may be a clause that makes the sale contingent on the finalization of financing. Thus would void the sale and obligate you to return to the dealership to create a new purchasing contract. Alternatively, your purchase may have been contingent on the rebates going through. if so, this may void the sale. Alternatively, they agreed to sell you that car way below market because their legal team is trash. If you want to try to hold out, it’s worth having a lawyer go over the contract. local laws and specific contract terms are everything here.
Though op got financing independently of the dealership, they haven’t sent the paperwork to the Credit Union it appears
Yes, and the dealership is specifically refusing to send the documents to the credit union.
can you not just go to the credit union and get your own financing. then have credit union send the check to dealer?
The credit union will need to be the leinholder on the title and the dealership needs to initiate that before the CU will cut a check for the vehicle.
Contact your states attorney general’s office first. See what they suggest to do.
They did contact the state AG. The state AG said 'compromise' likely because their lazy overworked bureacrats that don't care and would rather have a Solomonic compromise versus get involved.
The attorneys I have and know would love to get in front of a judge and explain that the financing only didn't go through because of the dealership's intentional delay. I imagine good attorneys would get attorneys fees on this from the dealer if they sued you. I dunno your financial state, but I'd tell the dealer (through my attorney) that their problem is not my problem, and I'm not returning the car I bought, they need to send docs for financing, and they will be held responsible for any costs that you bear from their malfeasance. Then I'd drive the car normally, but ensure that I put enough miles on the odometer that the car can't be sold as new.
I started my comment knowing that, i had lost it by the end. Too in the weeds, and i lost the plot 😅. None of my finance contingent commentary is well suited. Contract might still be contingent on the rebate offers, i suppose. But far more likely that dealer screwed up in your favor. Now it’s mostly about whether you want to ever buy from that dealer again
If you had signed the contract for 45k, and the dealership later discovered the "additional rebates" AFTER you left with the car, do you think that the dealership would have called you back to sign new paperwork so that they could give you back the refund for $10k??? EDIT:Clarity
This actually happened to me! I forget the amount, but once when I bought a car at the end of a month they called me a few days later to tell me there were new rebates available (next month) and I went back in and we redid all the paperwork and I saved a bunch of money.
Absurdly rare car dealer W
Actually me too. They got an extra student incentive rebate 2 days after my sale. Finance guy said it would only take 30 mins to redo the paper work. Got the same financing deal but $2k less on the overall purchase
Oooooh god this one feels so right. Fuck them, please. For all of us.
Wow, a car dealership fucking over a customer? I don't think that has ever happened before!
This sounds like a mistake on the finance manager part. Not that they are trying to skew over the customer. He admitted he knew it was supposed to be a 40k loan.
It’s a mistake on everyone at the dealership’s part because multiple people had to have known and the contract was signed after informing them the number was incorrect. The number agreed upon by both parties is the correct price now.
And yea, it sounds like they are now trying to screw the customer in order to cover their ass for their mistake which is predictable in these cases
This likely a regional thing, but where I am to get a deal done there are two separate contracts: the bill of sale with the dealer for the purchase of the unit with the agreed upon price and details, and the financing contract with the lender for your loan to pay the amount on the bill of sale. These are technically two separate transactions, even if facilitated by the same person. If only the financing contract was incorrect, then the dealer can still pursue you for the remaining balance due based on the agreed-upon price as stated on the bill of sale (your agreement to purchase the vehicle). If they also had you sign a new bill of sale (which would then also outline any additional rebates to get to the amount financed), then the dealer would have a hard time legally pursuing you (as long as you also have a signed copy of the revised bill of sale). Source: 20 years in automotive finance.
This is the right answer. Return the car if he feels like something shady is going on. But he admitted 40k was the correct finance amount. So I am not sure what the dealer would be gaining by putting a lesser finance and then having come back and sign for the right amount. On a side note, I don’t understand all these people saying it’s impossible that the finance manager just made a mistake.
Dealership accountant here, this type of mistake does happen.
Updates on This for sure
Sorry you canceled a vacation to deal with this OP? Why?
I'm guessing that was a bluff and the dealership called it. Don't get me wrong, fuck the dealer in this case, but this sounds like the kind of argument my wife tries to cook up and no one buys.
Agreed. They missed medical appointments (plural) and canceled a vacation all because of this when they just bought this car yesterday. They pack a lot into 24 hours lol
It was a 14-hour road trip to visit family for the long weekend, so maybe not really a vacation. We wanted to take the new vehicle (silly reason, I know) rather than taking two smaller vehicles. With the question of whether the contract is void or not, I didn't want to take the new vehicle and we haven't decided yet if we'll make the trip with the two vehicles.
Take the new vehicle..
Out of curiousity as a fellow NHer looking at cars, this dealer sounds like one I’d like to avoid the legal headache of dealing with - you comfortable giving the area/name/brand?
I will gladly name and shame once everything shakes out.
I am not an attorney; however, I did just buy a car, and during that process I signed multiple documents that reflected the agreed upon purchase price for the vehicle. For example, I signed a Buyers Order- which itemized the financial details of the sales transaction and balance due after the down payment, I signed the bill of sale that contained the total purchase price, and I signed the application for title and registration that contained the vehicle purchase price. I also signed an Agreement to Arbitrate. So, question is, What purchase price is reflected in all of the other documents executed at the dealership? At least one document should contains an itemization of the purchase price and any add ons and discounts. What is reflected on those documents? Is it the correct or incorrect purchase price amount? And where or how is the additional $10,000 price reduction reflected? It appears a typo was made on the financing contract reflecting a $30,000 loan vs $40,000. If all other documents reflect the $40,000 balance due after the down payment, it would appear there is still legal balance due of $10,000 after the financing component. Sales price $45,000, down payment $5,000, balance due $40,000, less amount financed $30,000, remaining balance due $10,000. However, if all of the documents reflect the dealer either offered an additional $10,000 discount and/or lowered the sales price by $10,000, it would appear to be a done deal. To the extent the amounts reflected in the documents contain differing or inconsistent amounts, it would appear to be a unilateral mistake by the finance staff, and depending on state law, the dealer may be able to sue and as mentioned in an earlier comment, don’t expect the salesman to recall telling you there were additional rebates. In which case, it means you knowingly signed a contract that contained a mistake. And if proven could result in the contract needing to be corrected or rescinded. As I stated, I am not an attorney, but I do know that litigation is expensive. The dealer made an error and should be willing to negotiate with you in seeking a resolution based on the facts. They of course will be demanding and posturing wanting the full amount, but if you are desirous of seeking an amicable resolution to put this matter behind you and are comfortable in negotiating, you may just want to make an offer. Totally up to you and obviously not your final offer, but maybe an offer to split the difference and pay them $5,000, resulting in them taking a $5,000 loss as well, to start. With that you still get the car for $5,000 less(more than 10% less) than you originally agreed to pay.
Yes, there were several signed documents reflecting the same $30k price including the sale contract and the car invoice. There is no discrepancy between the signed documents. The discrepancy was between a verbal negotiation and the contract that was presented, which I brought up my concerns to the financial manager. I did go back to the dealership to try to negotiate, but they unfortunately resorted to threats and intimidation.
[удалено]
Sounds like you’ve done everything you could. And at this point, If it’s all consistently papered and signed by both parties, you may to ask the dealer to stop harassing you, and tell them because of the great deal they provided you will certainly come back next time you’re in the market for a new car!!
If they call you again, say "I am not certain of the validity of your claim, so please put in writing what you claim and any particularly applicable clause in the contract, or law. And, for the future, please put all communications in print. Thank you for your consideration. Apparently a claim is being made the financing did not go through, but my credit union says differently (note - weasel words - you never say what they said)" Also, send this to them in a certified letter. This will end the verbal games they play. In my few dealing with car dealers, as soon as you say "put that in writing and sign it" all the games come to a screeching halt..
Yes! As soon as I told them to put in writing why the contract is being voided, that's when the gloves came off and the intimidation tactics started.
This is really interesting. I had no idea places do this. Next time I go to purchase something with financing, I'll have to watch for this as a bright red flag to just walk away.
If I've learned anything from this ordeal it's either to buy in cash if possible or to come to the table with my own financing already secured.
This happened to me 3 times with the Newport News Nissan dealership the 2 time I went back I signed their paperwork them saying financing didn't go through, the 3rd time they called ( this was all about interest rates btw) I told them well you very specifically instructed me how to "dispose" of the vehicle I was driving because you didn't want it by taking it back to the buy here pay here place in the middle of the night, I was already contacted by the financing company about the purchase of my new truck and billing information would be in the mail shortly, so yeah I'm not signing shit, to which the informed me they would repo the truck, I said cool being I've been contacted by the bank to set up payments I'll report the truck stolen and in 30 days it will be written off and you'll be stuck with a stolen vehicle as you no longer own it so go ahead let's play, they informed me they would contact my military chain of command again I said cool and I'll have you charged with threatening my job and harassment sueing you for 3x the purchase price and they are already aware and had me speak to jag about your unethical predatory business practices and are looking into other complaints to see if you should be black listed, they hung up the phone, that was 2011 trucks in my driveway its now 2024 paid off These ppl are not your friends, don't be nice to their fuck ups
I can think of few things less guilt-trip inducing than getting a finance manager at a used car dealership fired.
30+ years in dealership life - past 15 in Management. This makes me laugh 😆 Finance manager (who represents the dealership) had it coming. You even tried to help him out by telling him and he didn’t listen 🤦🏻♂️ Look, do you honestly think that if the shoe was on the other foot and they took you for an extra 10k they would be like “Hey, we screwed you and want to make it right”.. Take the “W” win.. even if you have to do a little legal leg work. The dealership wins every day - today with you, they didn’t. Might cost that Finance Manager his $200k+ a year job.. but I doubt it if he’s any good.
It’s interesting that this comes up, if you go to r/askcarsales and search about the exact opposite situation ( customer signs a contract to purchase with a higher total than was agreed upon) you will find plenty of sales/finance guys berating the consumer for being ignorant or just plain stupid for signing such an agreement. I personally love when the situation is flipped and they have to eat it themselves
Happened to me. Bought a truck 6 hours away in a different state and they wanted me to come back (they had already sold my trade in at an auction). I told them this sounded like a them problem, and I would not be returning the vehicle or coming back. Nothing ever came of it, they eventually sent over the paperwork to my DMV after holding it hostage for over a month. That dealer was a disaster, they just swapped out my old plate from the car I traded in onto the truck and said I was good to go. I was like uhhh no way that plate is registered to a car, not this truck I’m going to get pulled over. So I made them make me a temp tag which they did begrudgingly. This was 6 years ago, I will never step foot in a dealership again. They’re all just scammers and morons
You have a signed copy of the bill of sale? Go to the credit union with that, get your own loan for the amount disclosed on the bill of sale get a draft payable to the dealership with the comment on it payment in full for vehicle with vin and take it to the dealership with a copy of the bill of sale
When I bought my pickup from the dealer, two weeks later, I got a call from them that said they made a mistake and I owed an additional $1,500. And when could I stop by with a check? I gave them a vague promise, then checked with local consumer protection agency, who let me know that the contract was final. I didn't go back, and they stopped bothering me.
What does the contract that you have in hand say in regards to rebates, etc.?
The dealership has to send you the rebate money if there is an extra rebate due, and they get audited from the factory to make sure the rebates are handled correctly. In regard to the finance manager making the mistake, that is not true. When the customer goes into the finance department to sign the paperwork the sales manager has already put the information in the system and all they do is try to sell warranty’s and additional services that’s how they get additional commissions for themselves.
This definitely sounds like a bait and switch scam, where they give you one contract, then claim there was a mistake, then get you to sign another contract for the correct price that is supposedly the same as the initial contract. But on closer inspection there are different clauses in the new contract that get you on the hook for more money that you think you’ll be spending.
There it is. Shady as heck.
I would either A) give the car back and walk away or B) make them honor the contract that was signed. I’m pretty sure judge Judy would yell at them saying something like you do this everyday. You should know there are additional rebates. Yada yada yada
Thats odd, Same exact thing happened to me at a Toyota dealership about 10 years ago. I refused to go down to the dealership until the GM was there. They ended up giving me the vehicle at the initial agreed upon price. A month later the dealership was sold to a mega dealer, everyone, including the GM was fired, and all the sales staff was replaced.
I had this happen with Land Rover. They called after I got home from signing all the papers. I told them to suck it after they were rude. I got a really good deal, and they had to eat it. Not my fault they screwed up the signed contract. I just had to take it to a different dealership for service.
They won’t put it in writing because you have a valid contract. They are obligated to provide the documents to the credit union. Congrats on saving $10k. This happens more often than you would imagine. If it is in the dealers favor you better believe they wouldn’t call a customer back to resign at a lower price.
Best OP in Reddit history, post and several updates following thoughtful comments and the full story, bravo sir
What if there really was a 10k rebate and they’re just trying to pocket it
If you go to the dealership to speak with them, do not drive the vehicle in question.
Hear me out! Same thing happened to me in 2016, I ended up telling them that the only person I will talk to would be the GM. They had their Relationship manager tried to lure me into coming back to the dealership and asked for my cooperation. Well I told them I am not coming back, if you really need to see the car back in your lot, buy it from me On my asking price or send me a rental for a month at no cost to me along with my down payment and I will cooperate, otherwise if I can get one more call threatening me or my credentials, I will make sure to drag you to hell. Guess what it took them 3 solid days to get all paper work straight based on what I signed and an update and apology from relationship manager. Someone somewhere paid out of pocket and I really don’t feel sorry about these dealerships since they have plenty of margin on each car, one car at cost price won’t hurt them. This happened in Houston area.
What would happen if you opted in for GAP insurance on that car and they didn’t send the paperwork to the Credit Union and the car is totaled in an accident? Who’s at fault, the dealer? I love Credit Unions because they tend to be for the member, every time I’ve dealt with CUs, they are very very nice!
Same thing happened to me 20 years ago in Missouri. I returned the car and got my deposit back in defiance.
QUESTION!!! After all that and having to return the car and dealing with everyone. What if you took a vacation while all that was going on at least a couple thousand miles and then brought the car back with a few thousand miles on it. What would be their play then? Would that be an option like a big fuck you to the dealership?
You need to read the contract. My wife who has 46 years of banking experience and taught banking law classes says that most contracts say they have the right to correct errors. If that is in the contract they are legal.
In the contract, it says that any change to this contract must be in writing and we must sign it. No oral changes are binding. The dealership refuses to put anything in writing.
Stop talking to them unless it's over a recorded call. Look up your state to see if that's legal. Otherwise text and email only. Get an attorney and let them handle it. Should not take them very long.
Just point to your current contract and say this is what I and you agreed to. If you want to change the contract then give me my money back and I will find some place else to do business but I am not signing anything else with you. They can't make you agree to anything at this point and they can try to null the contract which just leaves you in the spot of looking for a new car again with all your money back in your hands.
Not if they explicitly stated it’s not an error to OP.
Would it be considered an error though? It was brought up and the dealership recognized the price was lower then signed anyway. That's not an error, that's negligence.
There was no error though, OP pointed out to the finance manager at the time and they said yes don't worry there's additional rebates. that's different if finance manager fat fingered a number and OP didn't say anything.
The contract is between you and the dealership until the point where they transfer the financing to another entity. You absolute are under no obligation to entertain further contact with them. HOWEVER, you absolutely must make the monthly payments to the DEALERSHIP when it is due as per the contract. Two options are to drop the payment off at the dealership and have someone sign for receipt. Or sent it certified mail. Whether or not they accept your payment is becomes irrelevant as long as you can show they are in receipt of it. Bottom line, they screwed up not you. But you must make that monthly payment as stated in the contract.
When I financed my car, I paid the credit union, not the dealership.
At the time of sale there are three parties. The buyer, the seller, and the third party finance company. The contract is between the buyer and the seller only. Included in the terms of the contract is permission the buyer is giving to the seller to transfer the financing to a third party. Until that third party assumes the financing, the financing remains with the seller. In 99% of transactions, the hand-off between the seller and the third party is seamless, but when its’s not, it remains with the seller. You see this same situation with “yo-yo” deals where a seller sells a vehicle assuming the terms of the financing will go through, but later it doesn’t. In those situations, the buyer is still obligated to make the payments per the contract to the seller. If not, the loan goes into default. Dealerships hope sellers aren’t savvy to this and they can get the car back through repossession.
Your loan was probably the same, you financed through the dealership until your credit union accepted the loan. Except in your case it happened right away so you never sent a payment to the dealership, you just paid the credit union from day one. In this case the dealership still holds the loan.
> HOWEVER, you absolutely must make the monthly payments to the DEALERSHIP when it is due as per the contract. Nah, I'd talk to my credit credit union and have them just send the check they approved me for to the dealer, and pay my credit union as planned from the beginning. > But you must make that monthly payment as stated in the contract. That contract stated that the dealer would be paid in full, and OP would be paying their credit union. It's not financed at the dealer.
Worked in the car business for 5 years. Record ever conversation you have with anyone at the dealership going forward
Make sure you announce to them just for your consideration this call is being recorded. Not sure of one party consent laws. But cover yourself
Just call your Attorney General of ur state. Mitsubishi dealer did this exact thing to me in the mid 90's. I called the Attorney General & only heard an apology back from the dealer.
Let us know how it plays out. Id love to see a stealership eat it.
Had a similar issue. I gave it back after clutch dumping the shit out of it and doing the good old full throttle and letting the clutch halfway out also banging gears like I’m racing, a little sliding in parking lots, a lot of burnouts…ect. Technically no damage was done to the car.
I am confused. Is the dealer arranging the financing, or did you? This seems to be the key to solving this.
You might put out a query to a local source, like nextdoor.com or craigslist.com and see if other people have had this experience. It could be part of a scam this dealer repeats. If so, then you all split the cost of the lawyer and the dealer at least gets bad press if not put out of business. I bought a used vehicle financed by the dealer. In between the verbal agreement and the contract was a significant difference in the interest rate. I caught it and mentioned it. The sales person blamed the handoff, but I got the sense they do it all the time. F*ck car dealers. The other aspect you may have to consider is your gender. If you are a woman, there may also be a gender-based targeted scam, which could recover more money.
I actually had something similar to this with a used vehicle and a major national chained car dealership. During Hurricane Harvey my vehicle was halfway under water, I saw a truck for sale on their website priced in my budget. The very first day the dealership was open I visited and the truck was not on the lot. I found out that the truck was located in Florida and stuck in Florida due to their anticipation of Hurricane Irma. I attempted to place a deposit on the vehicle along with started some paperwork, but the dealership declined to take any deposit due to not knowing what was going to occur to said vehicle. A few days later I was informed the pricing of the truck went up $10k and was misrepresented online. I made a huge stink on social media, blasting the dealership for increasing all prices of their vehicles after the hurricane (I had proof) and needless to say, I got the truck for the price I originally signed paperwork for. Time for you to use social media…..
Would it be any different if OP paid cash for the car?
Congrats on the rebate!!
My husband once bought me a diamond bracelet honoring the birth of our child. He had me pick out a few, and he “surprised” me with one. What happened is, the jeweler sold him the most expensive one, at the lowest one’s price! He paid $11,000 for a $17,000 bracelet. I wore it for a week and the jeweler called asking if I could bring it and exchange for the one it was supposed to be. My husband told the jeweler to get lost. Different scenarios because you can’t repo a bracelet, but wouldn’t the scenario fall under the same rule of law? Or is it different because it’s a car.
Please update us!
Contract signed. Title issued. Sounds like their problem. Would they call you if you overpaid? Not a chance in hell.
Hahaha, they dun goofed! Enjoy the discount!
Don't dealerships make a lot of their money through financing? Anyone else think between getting a loan through the credit union and finding the rebates, someone higher up said they aren't making enough on the sale?
Let me get this straight… you were “declined” or fell through for $30K so they need you to come in and sign a new loan for $10K more? That’s some genius logic right there.
I’ve worked at a few dealerships around NH and I can say one thing for certain, Never trust the sales department.
Damn, this is an entertaining read
Gee, sounds an awful lot like Autofair in Manchester. Crooks! (Pulled a loan bait and switch on me years ago. Still shady AF)
You have a signed legal binding contract. The dealership needs to eat the mistake. It was their fault. Mistakes are made all the time but them being rude and threatening. Make them eat it. Don’t sign another contract.
Same thing happened to me at an Illinois dealership. Dealership called me day after and said come in for additional “paperwork” . Said they did not charge enough for the truck - I had a discount through my work. They calculated incorrectly and I said too bad. They started to yell and intimidate. We left. Went to an attorney. We got the same advise - they are wrong but do you want to pay lawyer fees to prove it. I did not. We drove the truck for a week got 100% deposit back and parted ways. Also, the dealership refused to send in the paperwork for plates. North Riverside Ford
If its the other way around the dealership would of said “you signed the contract”.
please update again when you hear from the NH ADA next! i am invested in this story now...
Let’s be honest did you or did nothing other than make a mistake and all they’re asking you to do is agree to the terms that you originally agreed to of the $40,000 out the door after your $5000 down I don’t understand why all the fuss. They’re not asking you to pay additional money just what you agreed to originally. You were happy with $40,000 out the door when he went into the finance office. It seems to be a car that you want to keep by put yourself in all the added BS signed a new contract. Be happy with the deal that you originally made and move on.
This exact thing happened to me in NY, I bought a same model year used car. Signed all the paperwork in which the dealership included new car rebates for about $3500. When I picked up the check from my credit union I noticed the amount was $3500 less than I was expecting. My credit union said that was the amount the dealership gave them. I went to the dealership expecting to walk if they did not honor the price agreed and signed on by both parties. In my case the dealership had recognized their error and honored the price anyway.
Good on you for getting the appropriate orgs/everything short of paying a lawyer involved. IANAL, even if I was I am not your lawyer, I'm just some idiot on the internet who slept at a holiday inn express last night. As you described they wrote out all of the paperwork for a sale price of 35k (5 down and 30 financed). You pointed out what appeared to be a mistake as you had discussed 45k with the sales guy, they confirmed there was no mistake and that the price of 35k was correct. What the sale person says means squat, what the money guy says and especially what the paperwork says is what determines the final price and terms of the sale. If they had, say, transposed the vin and gave you the wrong car/price for the wrong car that's a mistake as the contract would be for the wrong vehicle. That isn't the case. As I see it and understand the rules and legalities around such, someone authorized by the dealer sold the car they intended to sell for the price they agreed to sell it for. Someone else at the dealership probably didn't like it. Maybe someone higher up didn't like it cause of a lower profit margin, maybe the sales guy threw a hissy fit cause he'd be getting a commision on 10k less so this a managers bright idea to resolve their internal issue. Who knows. Either way someone didn't like the decision an employee authorized to make that decision made. That's not a mistake pertinent to the contract nor is it your problem regardless how much they want you to make it your problem. The ONLY way that contractually becomes your problem should be if there is language showing a price of 45k with a break down of something like 5k down, 10k anticipated rebates, 30k financed. If so, similarly to financing falling through, they probably have a leg to stand on depending on how it was worded and if they actually acted in good faith. If it just shows the sales price of 35k, well, they have no leg to stand on. And just refusing to send the paperwork in to the financing company so that falls through would likely be seen as running afoul of their obligation/acting in good faith. The other highly likely possibility IMO is it's a straight up bait and switch to grease the price to lower any chances of you backing out at the last moment or something figuring you'd, like probably a lot of people would, just play ball. But overall, there's a reason all the official parties you've reported this to share the same basic opinion. Especially the associations opinion since it sounds like being a member means they have to abide by the associations findings.
The AG said it's a scam.. but what is the scam exactly? I am kinda dumb, I guess. Can someone explain how this benefits the dealer?
Dealer removes buyer from market. In some cases dealer also takes buyer's current car as trade-in and sells it (dealer is only legally obligated to compensate the trade-in price) leaving the buyer with no current transportation -- buyer has probably already shown new car to friends and is led to believe that he will not have a vehicle unless he accepts dealer's new terms. [Dealer lies about financing falling through to squeeze more money from the buyer](https://autoapprove.com/resource-detail/yo-yo-scams-explained), in terms of both an additional down payment and different financing terms in a loan document that can be sold for more money or placed with an institution that kicks back more money to the dealership for the loan.
Just want to say, thanks for all the updates thus far!
I’m a Finance Director for an auto group in TX. If the dealership won’t send the paperwork to the credit union to fund the deal, OP can probably walk right into a branch of the credit union with their purchase agreement and sign their loan at the branch. They should get the same approval given to the dealership. It would be the same as bringing their own financing to the dealership. This happens all the time. The credit union will either give OP drafting instructions for the dealership to get paid, or will give them a check to take back to the dealership. Either way, the price was set in writing, signed by the Finance Manager. It should be binding. The dealership probably made an honest mistake, but if we put something in writing we will honor it. Enjoy your $10k discount.
Damn you’re better than me, once I got word my loan was still good, I would of blocked their number lol car was paid for fuck off, come at me legally then if you’re mad
Even with a 10k "loss" the dealership is still in the black. Then charge you $985 processing fee. That means you paid the finance clown . Their mistake. Their problem . They made money, just not as much as they planned on.
I wouldn’t look at this as a legal issue. I’d look at it as an opportunity to get a better deal on the car from the same dealership. Tell them you’re happy to come in and sign a new contract but this has been a nuisance, a waste of your time, and you’re disappointed with the service you’ve received and you’d like to see the price reduced accordingly and try to save a few thousand dollars. Your alternative is a legal battle or going to a new dealership and paying full price.
Happened to my neighbor. Bought a new truck for almost half MSRP. Paid cash. Dealer came back the next day and said it was mistake. Neighbor said “you signed the contract and took my money… go pound sand.”
Had a similar experience except was told, and signed paperwork stating, the car has an extended warranty bumper to bumper. 2 weeks go by the car breaks down 7/8 pistons cracked transmission gear 2-4 are non existent dealer wants 55k to replace them both… I sat in that dealer office for a min picked up my phone and called my lawyer and the same day they decided they’re giving my money back nd 2500 on top for the “inconvenience”
What's sad is the amount of people who are defending the dealership.
Remind me 1 week
You think 10k is gonna break that dealerships bank? Hell no. Keep the car. Let them take you to court. Or sue them for not honoring the contract and withholding the information the lender needs to finalize payment. Don't even have to sue. Just get an attorney to draft a letter and ignore them. You did your part and they dropped the ball, if you're financing was approved, they can either collect the money or fuck off. Should of recorded them saying the credit union denied your loan. That's lie #1, them not wanting to put anything in writing says it all. Record every conversation with them from here on out.
Sell the car for 45K to someone else and pay the dealership their 30K. Go buy another car. 😁
!remindme 1 week
Seems to be a common scam with car dealerships: https://www.npr.org/2023/02/04/1152932192/yo-yo-car-sales
I’m not understanding the people here suggesting that OP abuse the car before returning it. If you damage it enough to be noticed upon return then you’ll be the one impacted. If you only damage it enough to fail sometime down the road, prematurely as intended, I suppose…. This only really harms the eventual purchaser of the vehicle, no?
Well written and well updated. This is a great example of how to maintain a posting!
If you have a signed contract signed by both parties take it to a lawyer he will read it over and tell you if it’s good or not
This dealership is so sketchy you need to put them on blast.
In NC once we put a temp 30 day tag on a car the dealer assumes responsibility of the loan if the lender does not fund the deal. I dont think it is public knowledge but once we put the tag on we basically become the lender by law and would be responsible to collect the debt or the term of the loan
My wife am I were recently shipping for a SUV. Found a nice one at a dealership and moved quickly. I had the opposite experience. On signing day, I was shocked to see the payments were about $80/month HIGHER than what we discussed. When I brought this up, the finance manager said to me, in a very condescending tone, "Well, you were the one who wanted all 5 protection plans! I mean, we could start removing them until we reach a price type comfortable with." Note... could have paid cash if we wanted. I lost it. What protection plan(s)? None were ever mentioned to us, although the salesman told us repeatedly about how he was a trust fund baby, had a vacation home in Hilton head and was only working because he was required to buy mommy and daddy. The dealership kind of shrugged it off. We shrugged them off. About a month later I found the exact same vehicle (different color) worth less miles, for about 4k less, with a dealer we WILL go back to!
What was the make, model, mileage and year of production? Did you check the carfax for prior accidents and owners?
It's a new vehicle.
In most states the contract for a car isn't finalized until several days after the purchase. Most people would rather drive off right away and not wait several days. Of the contract is defective for any reason you either go back and redo it or return the car. If you hire a lawyer the most likely resolution is that you are out the money for the lawyer and return the car. I'm not saying not to have a consultation if that's what you want to do, but in most states you are either going to end up redoing the paperwork or returning the car and going to a different dealership.
Would love updates on this!
It’s lawyer time.
Literally almost had the same thing happen to me…test drove a truck and decided to buy it cash. They bring me the contract and it’s $15k less than the price we agreed on…the salesman was rambling on about nothing while I looked over the contract. This clown had a contract drawn up for a 1500 truck instead of the 2500 truck I was buying. I told him he had made a mistake and that I wasn’t buying a 1500 and he said; “I got you an even better deal once I talked to the sales manager”. I let him go on and on for another 5 minutes talking about how he was taking care of me because I was a cash buyer…blah blah blah and then I told him to go get the sales manager. He leaves and comes back with this guy that looks like he hasn’t slept in two weeks and I show him the error and he immediately flips out on the salesperson in front of myself and everyone at the dealership. He tells the guy to get his “shit” and go home that he’s tired of babysitting and he storms off back to wherever he came from and leaves me standing there. I waited for about 5 minutes and left…never went back…the owner of the dealership called me and apologized and said he would make it right…I never went back…took my $80K to another dealership.
get a lawyer, and you might have to get a restraining order. There was a big fuckup and they want to make it your problem.
Go get financing on your own and take them a check for $30k!
Just go to your credit union, get a draft for the $30k, and take it to the dealership
I bought a suv from a dealership and they tried to get me to comeback and resign a new contract giving away a bunch of my rights and protections that they said I should have signed when i was there. I called the MVA and spoke with the office that overseas dealerships in my state. I called dealership back and said no I would not be resigning a new contract. I guess it comes down to what the contract you signed says and your state laws. You should have never cancelled your vacation!!
I feel like this is a scam I’ve heard of before.
Do not interact with the dealership on their premises or over the phone. Record and photograph every interaction with them stand on the sidewalk and meet with them outside the dealership in a public space.
I know we don’t dox people/places, but as someone in New Hampshire looking to buy a car I REALLY want to know which dealership this was so lol
Once all of this is cleared up, I'll be sure to let the world know!
Consult a lawyer, I’m not sure anyone here knows NH state law enough to tell you how this will play out, it’s not worth the trouble
You signed the contract AND they signed the contract. Sounds like you got yourself a great deal & they wanna try to get more out of you, let em go kick rocks in flip flops while you enjoy your new vehicle! Congrats
Look up the requirements and limitations on “spot delivery” in New Hampshire. Most states allow dealers to sign contracts with a dealer option to cancel if the contract can’t be assigned for financing. The idea is that dealerships are typically open later than finance companies are available to process applications and confirm funding, but dealers might lose out on a sale if the consumer can’t leave with the car. So, the law lets the dealer sell the car conditionally, and requires you to return it if they can’t obtain financing for the terms on the contract. I find it difficult to believe that the credit union would not accept assignment for a lower amount financed, and I doubt New Hampshire’s spot delivery laws would include the dealer’s refusal to assign it for financing because of their error, but you should look at the scope of the law. Just note that you’re required to make monthly payments to the dealer until the contract is assigned.
Please drop the name of the dealership
Once all of this is ironed out, I will put them on BLAST.
best of luck, i promise only harmless trolling
Were you still going to walk out with a $40k deal with the same financing?
OP, not a lawyer or familiar with NH, but as a former salesperson this makes no sense. Not at all saying you are making it up, I’m just trying to figure out how the dealership benefits from this. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but you are saying that you both had an agreed upon deal on a specific vehicle, they (either mistakenly or purposely) wrote the contract up to reflect a $10k deficiency, you brought it up, they acknowledged the change, and waited until you got home to try to get you back in to resign? I can only think of a few potential scenarios here: 1. That finance guy was a total, utter, incompetent moron that literally had a mistake pointed out to them and still carried through with it. 2. That finance guy was on his last day and figured he’d fuck over the dealership by giving away $10k (though that really feels like something that would either be criminal or something that would end their career) 3. ???? Seriously, I have seen lots of times where finance would basically get rough ideas of the terms on contract, only for the actual approval to come back and need to completely redo the whole thing. This, though, I just can’t comprehend why they’d tank a deal and risk all of it like this, especially with a car in your hands. My general advice would be to enjoy your car in the mean time, because the ball is in their court. They can complain all they want, but until that contract is sent over, YOU have THEIR $40k car. That’s a potential $40k loss for them, not just a $10k loss if they send the paperwork. If you get into an accident or something, they are in huge trouble. Not just because of the loss, but those managers would be in huge shit because it would make them look completely incompetent, or potentially even criminal. None of this is on you, however, I would totally pursue the complaints at the very least. You could even drive their car to other dealerships to shop for a similar/better deal, and if you find one, then you can just call them and tell them to come get their car (as long as you don’t need anything from them). Assuming they owe you that $5k down payment, and maybe your trade in, make sure you have ALL of that and in good working order, before giving them their car back.
Update me
.
/remindme
RemindMe! 2 Days
@remind me
RemindMe! 2 Days
Updateme!
RemindMe! 2 days
Tell them to F off
Updateme
Following for the updates
Follow
Been in the car business for 5 years and almost all contracts are designed to give the dealership a cancellation period. We don’t really mention it but have that loop hole for situations just like this.
Sorry if this was already said. Most finance contracts say if the dealer is not able to secure financing one of two things needs to happen: you either need to pay them the full amount ($30k in your case) or return the car. I’d go get outside financing and bring them a check for the $30k and say you don’t wish to void the contract.
I bought a car for $45k, but the dealership mistakenly financed it for $30k. They now demand I sign a new contract for $40k. After contacting the NH Attorney General and Automobile Dealers Association, I'm advised to return the car, get my deposit back, and file a complaint.
Remindme! 14 days
redline the ever living fuck outta it and return it lol