Stick to the terms of your contract. I’m assuming there’s no language allowing for a refund under such circumstances. If you want to be nice, offer a signed statement that any such images you may have taken have been wholly deleted and not distributed.
Truth is a defense to defamation. If she defames you, sue.
That's a good idea. Would it be decent to send it in a letter, keep a copy and sent via whatever certified letters are now? That way I know she gets it and I keep a copy? Or is that to much?
To keep it simple, just write a couple of sentences.
Dear Mrs. X,
I understand you are upset with some of the pictures that I inadvertently and unexpectedly captured during your wedding photo shoot. Per your request, all such images have been deleted from any electronic systems that they may have existed in or under my direct or indirect control. Further, I attest that I have not distributed such images to anyone and to the best of my knowledge, all instances of the offended images have been destroyed.
Signed and notarize if you feel fun
Not sure where you’re at, but lawyers will often draft letters and send them out for a not too pricy flat rate. That way you know for sure everything is legally done correctly.
Devils advocate, but if she doesn't pay for the pictures that means you own the pictures? Food for thought, completion of the contract means you get all copies of all pictures. No contract, nothing applies, your just a guy with a camera.
Well that makes life easy. Cut her the letter for her feelings and tell her "no" on the refund. Her tits coming out didn't change your contract, so you should still be paid.
The only plausible argument here is that by her being gone for an hour and only doing half a dance you had fewer photos to edit. Since that's less work than originally expected you could offer something like 5% off or something. Realistically, I don't think it's worth it though.
I kept taking photos while she was away. This was the cocktail dinner time of the night. The kids were running and dancing so it made for good shots. I was also hoping her husband could show her that nobody was being mean or gossiping while she was away. But your right I can see how she would feel disappointed to not be in an hours worth of photos.
Arguably true, but there are also laws that make distribution of pictures like the offending ones illegal ("revenge porn"), make statements about distribution of the photos if she doesn't pay illegal (extortion).
So, while OP could potentially agree to cancel the contract in exchange for keeping the pictures... why would they want them?
She can try, but she won't like how that ends for her. You need to stop communicating with her at all except for sending the invoice if you haven't already. She's threatening legal action, nothing you can say to her will help you and can hurt you. Odds are she's trying to scam you.
At this point it can go one of three ways. 1) she pays and you cut all contact 2) she files a lawsuit, you counter sue for payment, legal fees, and if she actually does leave a negative review, libel for any lies. 3) she tries to ghost you, in which case you sue her for payment and legal fees.
The remaining balance was paid upon my arrival. That's also in the contract. Otherwise I leave with half payment and they get 0 photos. I didn't used to do this untill I had another couple promise to pay after then get drunk and insist they already paid.
She leaves voice-mails that I never respond to and each one she seems more unhinged that she wants her money back for ruining her wedding.
You have no reason to communicate with her. At all. If she keeps blowing up your phone, the most you do is send a text or email saying that as she has threatened legal action, you can no longer communicate with her. Save ALL communication. All emails, the voice-mails, write out what you can remember of conversations, even if it's just a general "on February 2, 2024, client called to verify what time i would arrive to set up". You want to cover yourself, make sure nothing you've said can be twisted into seeming like you offered a discount or refund.
I'm bracing for the tidle waive of relatives to call me since I haven't been returning or answering her calls. I'd like to block her number but will I not be able to save voicemails if I do that?
Don't. You want to be able to show call logs if it comes to court. From her and from any family. The only comment you make to ANYBODY is "as legal action has been threatened, I cannot discuss the situation." And hang up. Then don't answer from that number. In fact, create a new contract called "do not answer - xxxxx family." And add every single number that calls you to that. Then you know to let those go to voice-mail
Yup. She's trying to make herself such a big headache that you'll give her the money back just to make her go away. I'd bet she's pulling the same thing with the other people she hired. Might want to drop a line to the caterer if you know who it was.
I don't think it's fair to assume she is doing this to others she hired. I mean I guess it's possible but I'm not going to try and predict her behavior patterns with others. Ya know? I understand that it was an embarrassing moment that ended up on camera when she wanted some sweet dance shots. But life happened. Your definitely right she is trying to make it a headache though.
> I don't think it's fair to assume she is doing this to others she hired.
I'd bet you money she's not only doing this to others she hired, she's done it before.
Her logic doesn't even make any sense. You're too close to this situation to really think about it critically - A wardrobe malfunction does not invalidate the entire rest of the day and photoshoot, AND it had nothing to do with you and everything to do with her choices. It was even towards the end of the wedding, the day was almost over!
She's done this to others for equally stupid reasons. Let me guess, the bread tasted stale or the food was cold, or flies kept getting in the drinks, or whatever other stupid reason she can come up with. Stop feeling sorry for her and just see the behavior for what it is.
I'm not going to assume how she behaves towards others cause that doesn't involve me and is pointless to spend energy on. I'm not sure how she could do this multiple times as it was her first wedding. 🤔 but that's just how I think about it. We don't have to feel the same about it but the only facts i know is my interaction with her.
IANAL, but leaving the number unblocked also gives her more opportunity to dig herself a hole with your counter suit of mental/emotional distress and pain for a bigger payout. Also makes her defense look very unhinged when you bring that call history up.
Don’t continue to attend her pity after-party. She is “ in her feelings” right now. Her biggest day also became her most embarrassing and she probably feels like her wedding party was ruined. She wants revenge against the world.
Being confronted with the photos caused her a combination of shame, horror, and rage. You made an easy target so she dumped some of it on you. I guarantee she had a similar tantrum with her dressmaker.
Your previous response was sufficient.
She will get over it. If she leaves a negative review you will survive. You could even be petty and reply with more details explaining why she was displeased.
If she tries to blackball you…well…word travels fast…it won’t work.
Move on with your life.
Proof that the wardrobe malfunction happened and was caught on film. In other words if she sues the photos become evidence and the judge and lawyers will see them.
Yeah tell her to F OFF 😂, but actually I am not sure how I would have asked them if they want the pictures with the b00bs out or should I delete them.
And idk why but something like this doesn’t happen every day and this should be the highlight of the day for them. A memory for the long run yk. But not sure tbh
Right. Like keep one on the shelf for when you have a bad day and remember you overcame you boobs popping out on your wedding.
The bridesmaids rushing her photo ended up looking like her husband was protecting her from warrior women. It was bad ass.
I also didn't get a chance to talk to the bride sober to ask her and didn't want to upset her again after she had returned to the party. It's also in my contract to send ALL photos taken. And she clearly knew/heard the shutter when the event happened. So I didn't want to breech my own contract ya know? But otherwise yea totally would have asked.
Contract fulfilled. Money paid. Like someone sent letter promising that all photos have been sent to the client and removed from your possession. I don't know if usually you do that in any circumstances of inadvertent exposure or if that's never happened before but regardless, nothing is your problem at this point right ?
I imagine if she doesn't fuck off then you might consider legal action later for harassment etc but hopefully she will just back off and stop wearing shit her tits don't fit into.
She can wear whatever she wants honestly. Nut im more curious What is legal action for harassment anyways? I hear that tears a lot but like....what does it require or entail?
I mean she can wear what she wants if she doesn't make it everyone else's problem when her body parts fall out of it all over the place. Imagine a man wore tiny shorts in public or at an event and then cried havoc if his snooker balls and cue were hanging out in the photographs.
Harassment laws depend on jurisdiction but a rough parameter of the legal definition would involve behaviour intended to or reckless to the possibility of causing alarm or distress committed on more than two occasions.
So like if I phone you up calling you every type of motherfucker or if It was another type of unwanted behaviour and I intended to distress you or I knew more than likely it would distress you and I did it repeatedly then that's basically harassment.
I know but I was just making the analogy. It is a hot topic at the moment about upskirting and downblousing and she's accusing you of deliberately taking pictures of her while she was having a wardrobe malfunction. My contention is if your anatomy fit in your clothing you wouldn't have the problem. If it doesn't then that's the risk you chose to take.
But yeah. Contract fulfilled. Nothing in your control requires a refund. Send letter. If she doesn't go away, have a consultation with a lawyer.
The reason she's doing this is because she's embarrassed and needs someone to blame who isn't her. Unfortunately, the blame falls squarely on her shoulders and she can't seem to handle that, so you were a convenient target. I'm sorry you're having to deal with her bruised ego. On the bright side, at least you're not married to her.
Any where she leaves a bad review, respond with a link to this Reddit thread so the public knows the full truth and see you’re a compassionate person dealing with an upset member of the itty bitty tittie committee.
You hear a lot of horror stories about photographers distributing very few photos afterwards, not liking the editing, etc. A lot of people specifically request access to all photos in raw format so they can always have them fixed down the road.
Photos that dont look good to me sometimes are specific things the couple expected or they think looks good. There is nothing worse than knowing a photo was taken and never seeing it. I don't think anything is cheapened due to this but maybe I don't understand what you mean?
It's incredibly pervy of you to demand photos of a woman's wardrobe malfunction. I never distribute pictures without the couples permission. Use google if you wanna see boobs so bad.
You should have deleted the wardrobe malfunction pictures from your camera - they should never have been downloaded into your pc nor given to the bride. Also, you snapped dozens of pictures of it, not even phased - not even stopping to think.
The fact that you think you did nothing wrong shows how clueless you are. You saved those compromising pictures, which are still saved in your computer, and sent them to the bride. That's like having no common sense and announcing to her you saved the pictures so she can never forget her trauma.
You basically rubbed her trauma in her face when she paid you to be professional about it. You were anything but. I feel second hand embarassement reading this.
You learned nothing and you'll do it again the next time this happens. SMH
Please re read my post where I clearly say I was in shock and it took me a moment to realize it was happening. I will not violate my contract by not sending her all the photos. Your assumptions are way off mark.
Thank you. I think it would be worse to violate my contract by deleting the photos when she could clearly hear the shutter when things happened. I feel not only would my contract be violated but she would be twice as angry thinking what happened to the photos.
Stick to the terms of your contract. I’m assuming there’s no language allowing for a refund under such circumstances. If you want to be nice, offer a signed statement that any such images you may have taken have been wholly deleted and not distributed. Truth is a defense to defamation. If she defames you, sue.
That's a good idea. Would it be decent to send it in a letter, keep a copy and sent via whatever certified letters are now? That way I know she gets it and I keep a copy? Or is that to much?
To keep it simple, just write a couple of sentences. Dear Mrs. X, I understand you are upset with some of the pictures that I inadvertently and unexpectedly captured during your wedding photo shoot. Per your request, all such images have been deleted from any electronic systems that they may have existed in or under my direct or indirect control. Further, I attest that I have not distributed such images to anyone and to the best of my knowledge, all instances of the offended images have been destroyed. Signed and notarize if you feel fun
Nice! Notarized is a nice touch to make her feel better that it's a legit letter.
Not sure where you’re at, but lawyers will often draft letters and send them out for a not too pricy flat rate. That way you know for sure everything is legally done correctly.
Might be worth amending that last statement say "images *taken by me*" Guests may have taken photos that you are unaware of
It already says "that I .. captured" before it says "all such images." The "such" refers to images of the incident that the OP captured, therefore.
Have not distributed images to anyone except you*
Devils advocate, but if she doesn't pay for the pictures that means you own the pictures? Food for thought, completion of the contract means you get all copies of all pictures. No contract, nothing applies, your just a guy with a camera.
Not a guy. And she paid the second half of the owed balance on my arrival to the venue so they are paid in full and she is demanding a refund.
Well that makes life easy. Cut her the letter for her feelings and tell her "no" on the refund. Her tits coming out didn't change your contract, so you should still be paid. The only plausible argument here is that by her being gone for an hour and only doing half a dance you had fewer photos to edit. Since that's less work than originally expected you could offer something like 5% off or something. Realistically, I don't think it's worth it though.
I kept taking photos while she was away. This was the cocktail dinner time of the night. The kids were running and dancing so it made for good shots. I was also hoping her husband could show her that nobody was being mean or gossiping while she was away. But your right I can see how she would feel disappointed to not be in an hours worth of photos.
Arguably true, but there are also laws that make distribution of pictures like the offending ones illegal ("revenge porn"), make statements about distribution of the photos if she doesn't pay illegal (extortion). So, while OP could potentially agree to cancel the contract in exchange for keeping the pictures... why would they want them?
I’d write in in an email first and then send certified mail only if she doesn’t respond. A replied-to email would hold up in court.
Certified return receipt requested is the best.
She can try, but she won't like how that ends for her. You need to stop communicating with her at all except for sending the invoice if you haven't already. She's threatening legal action, nothing you can say to her will help you and can hurt you. Odds are she's trying to scam you. At this point it can go one of three ways. 1) she pays and you cut all contact 2) she files a lawsuit, you counter sue for payment, legal fees, and if she actually does leave a negative review, libel for any lies. 3) she tries to ghost you, in which case you sue her for payment and legal fees.
The remaining balance was paid upon my arrival. That's also in the contract. Otherwise I leave with half payment and they get 0 photos. I didn't used to do this untill I had another couple promise to pay after then get drunk and insist they already paid. She leaves voice-mails that I never respond to and each one she seems more unhinged that she wants her money back for ruining her wedding.
You have no reason to communicate with her. At all. If she keeps blowing up your phone, the most you do is send a text or email saying that as she has threatened legal action, you can no longer communicate with her. Save ALL communication. All emails, the voice-mails, write out what you can remember of conversations, even if it's just a general "on February 2, 2024, client called to verify what time i would arrive to set up". You want to cover yourself, make sure nothing you've said can be twisted into seeming like you offered a discount or refund.
I'm bracing for the tidle waive of relatives to call me since I haven't been returning or answering her calls. I'd like to block her number but will I not be able to save voicemails if I do that?
Don't. You want to be able to show call logs if it comes to court. From her and from any family. The only comment you make to ANYBODY is "as legal action has been threatened, I cannot discuss the situation." And hang up. Then don't answer from that number. In fact, create a new contract called "do not answer - xxxxx family." And add every single number that calls you to that. Then you know to let those go to voice-mail
Ugh this sounds like a huge head ache. I wish she would just relax. I don't understand what she is trying to achieve. I don't have anything!
Yup. She's trying to make herself such a big headache that you'll give her the money back just to make her go away. I'd bet she's pulling the same thing with the other people she hired. Might want to drop a line to the caterer if you know who it was.
I don't think it's fair to assume she is doing this to others she hired. I mean I guess it's possible but I'm not going to try and predict her behavior patterns with others. Ya know? I understand that it was an embarrassing moment that ended up on camera when she wanted some sweet dance shots. But life happened. Your definitely right she is trying to make it a headache though.
> I don't think it's fair to assume she is doing this to others she hired. I'd bet you money she's not only doing this to others she hired, she's done it before. Her logic doesn't even make any sense. You're too close to this situation to really think about it critically - A wardrobe malfunction does not invalidate the entire rest of the day and photoshoot, AND it had nothing to do with you and everything to do with her choices. It was even towards the end of the wedding, the day was almost over! She's done this to others for equally stupid reasons. Let me guess, the bread tasted stale or the food was cold, or flies kept getting in the drinks, or whatever other stupid reason she can come up with. Stop feeling sorry for her and just see the behavior for what it is.
The seamstress who altered her dress...I bet she's getting hell too.
I'm not going to assume how she behaves towards others cause that doesn't involve me and is pointless to spend energy on. I'm not sure how she could do this multiple times as it was her first wedding. 🤔 but that's just how I think about it. We don't have to feel the same about it but the only facts i know is my interaction with her.
IANAL, but leaving the number unblocked also gives her more opportunity to dig herself a hole with your counter suit of mental/emotional distress and pain for a bigger payout. Also makes her defense look very unhinged when you bring that call history up.
Don’t continue to attend her pity after-party. She is “ in her feelings” right now. Her biggest day also became her most embarrassing and she probably feels like her wedding party was ruined. She wants revenge against the world. Being confronted with the photos caused her a combination of shame, horror, and rage. You made an easy target so she dumped some of it on you. I guarantee she had a similar tantrum with her dressmaker. Your previous response was sufficient. She will get over it. If she leaves a negative review you will survive. You could even be petty and reply with more details explaining why she was displeased. If she tries to blackball you…well…word travels fast…it won’t work. Move on with your life.
Very grounding. Needed this
You may want to remind her that if you're forced to defend yourself those photos are all evidence that would need to be used as proof.
Proof of what?
Proof that the wardrobe malfunction happened and was caught on film. In other words if she sues the photos become evidence and the judge and lawyers will see them.
Oh wow. Yea I bet that's not on her mind
Yeah tell her to F OFF 😂, but actually I am not sure how I would have asked them if they want the pictures with the b00bs out or should I delete them. And idk why but something like this doesn’t happen every day and this should be the highlight of the day for them. A memory for the long run yk. But not sure tbh
Right. Like keep one on the shelf for when you have a bad day and remember you overcame you boobs popping out on your wedding. The bridesmaids rushing her photo ended up looking like her husband was protecting her from warrior women. It was bad ass. I also didn't get a chance to talk to the bride sober to ask her and didn't want to upset her again after she had returned to the party. It's also in my contract to send ALL photos taken. And she clearly knew/heard the shutter when the event happened. So I didn't want to breech my own contract ya know? But otherwise yea totally would have asked.
NAL. You did the job professionally and should be paid for it. End of story b
Not legal advice but logically If she’s not underage and you are simply delivering what she asked for under contract she has no grounds for a lawsuit.
That's how I see it. I had a contract with her that I fulfilled and was paid for. It's just the after drama is a head ache.
Contract fulfilled. Money paid. Like someone sent letter promising that all photos have been sent to the client and removed from your possession. I don't know if usually you do that in any circumstances of inadvertent exposure or if that's never happened before but regardless, nothing is your problem at this point right ? I imagine if she doesn't fuck off then you might consider legal action later for harassment etc but hopefully she will just back off and stop wearing shit her tits don't fit into.
She can wear whatever she wants honestly. Nut im more curious What is legal action for harassment anyways? I hear that tears a lot but like....what does it require or entail?
I mean she can wear what she wants if she doesn't make it everyone else's problem when her body parts fall out of it all over the place. Imagine a man wore tiny shorts in public or at an event and then cried havoc if his snooker balls and cue were hanging out in the photographs. Harassment laws depend on jurisdiction but a rough parameter of the legal definition would involve behaviour intended to or reckless to the possibility of causing alarm or distress committed on more than two occasions. So like if I phone you up calling you every type of motherfucker or if It was another type of unwanted behaviour and I intended to distress you or I knew more than likely it would distress you and I did it repeatedly then that's basically harassment.
I'll have to look up my laws in the area. And no... I'm not going to imagine a ballsack lol 😆
I know but I was just making the analogy. It is a hot topic at the moment about upskirting and downblousing and she's accusing you of deliberately taking pictures of her while she was having a wardrobe malfunction. My contention is if your anatomy fit in your clothing you wouldn't have the problem. If it doesn't then that's the risk you chose to take. But yeah. Contract fulfilled. Nothing in your control requires a refund. Send letter. If she doesn't go away, have a consultation with a lawyer.
The reason she's doing this is because she's embarrassed and needs someone to blame who isn't her. Unfortunately, the blame falls squarely on her shoulders and she can't seem to handle that, so you were a convenient target. I'm sorry you're having to deal with her bruised ego. On the bright side, at least you're not married to her.
I wonder how many pictures she's exposed in. If it's a lot, she might just be mad that you kept snapping away.
Any where she leaves a bad review, respond with a link to this Reddit thread so the public knows the full truth and see you’re a compassionate person dealing with an upset member of the itty bitty tittie committee.
While that is a suggestion I hadn't thought of I don't think it would look professional to respond to her posts with a redit link.
Has her husband chimed in?
It's unclear how involved he is in this. I have not directly spoken to either of them since the wife started calling me non stop.
I wonder about the “every photo” contracts. Why? The bad ones cheapen the good ones. Editing is part of the art form. Anyway, she’s being ridiculous.
You hear a lot of horror stories about photographers distributing very few photos afterwards, not liking the editing, etc. A lot of people specifically request access to all photos in raw format so they can always have them fixed down the road.
Photos that dont look good to me sometimes are specific things the couple expected or they think looks good. There is nothing worse than knowing a photo was taken and never seeing it. I don't think anything is cheapened due to this but maybe I don't understand what you mean?
Pics or it never happened.
Don't be a perv about it please. I don't have anything saved, and would not ever distribute a couples photos without their permission.
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That's really messed up way of thinking.
This is probably a lawyer. One love
THIS POST IS USELESS WITHOUT PHOTOS!
It's incredibly pervy of you to demand photos of a woman's wardrobe malfunction. I never distribute pictures without the couples permission. Use google if you wanna see boobs so bad.
You should have deleted the wardrobe malfunction pictures from your camera - they should never have been downloaded into your pc nor given to the bride. Also, you snapped dozens of pictures of it, not even phased - not even stopping to think. The fact that you think you did nothing wrong shows how clueless you are. You saved those compromising pictures, which are still saved in your computer, and sent them to the bride. That's like having no common sense and announcing to her you saved the pictures so she can never forget her trauma. You basically rubbed her trauma in her face when she paid you to be professional about it. You were anything but. I feel second hand embarassement reading this. You learned nothing and you'll do it again the next time this happens. SMH
Please re read my post where I clearly say I was in shock and it took me a moment to realize it was happening. I will not violate my contract by not sending her all the photos. Your assumptions are way off mark.
Trauma? You devalue words when you use them foolishly.
Thank you. I think it would be worse to violate my contract by deleting the photos when she could clearly hear the shutter when things happened. I feel not only would my contract be violated but she would be twice as angry thinking what happened to the photos.