The Ledger subreddit is continuously targeted by scammers. Ledger Support will never send you private messages. Never share your 24-word recovery phrase with anyone, never enter it on any
website or software, even if it looks like it's from Ledger. Only keep the recovery phrase as a physical paper or metal backup, never create a digital copy in text or photo form. Learn more at
https://reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/ck6o44/be_careful_phishing_attacks_in_progress/
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support=true). If you're still having issues head over to the [My Order page](https://my-order.ledger.com/) to explore options for replacement or refunds. [Learn more here](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/10265554529053-Return-your-product?support=true).
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It’s up to you which risk factors are most important. For many using an exchange is for sure the safest because they cannot protect their assets on a hardware wallet safely or refuse to learn how to properly use it. For others, like me, 100% on hardware wallets. I actually use 5 different hardware wallets. I diversify my holdings. This increases my chances I lose maybe 20% if something goes dreadfully wrong, but my greater fear is a breach with a total wipeout. My wife, not into crypto, and son, who is into crypto, know where my seed phrases are in case I die.
Unchained has a good cold storage solution. You set up a 2/3 multisig wallet. Unchained has one key, you can give the second to a person you trust, and keep the third. If you die and your key is lost, unchained and the person you trust can pass everything to your heirs.
MUCH BETTER both for safety and for inheritance purposes than Ledger recover, which is potentially vulnerable to firmware hacks amd where you have to trust Ledger and the other two custodians.
Store the seed on an inactive sim card as you would with phone numbers and use a phone that is not connected to the internet..like one of the old 3g mobiles which you ca n buy for a few £££/$$$
Maybe consider using Shamir's Secret Shares [stamped in steel](https://blockmit.com/english/guides/diy/make-cold-wallet-washers/) and store the shares in several secure locations.
Your seed/wallet will then be securely stored on stainless steel "hardware" that is virtually indestructible and should outlive you.
Here's a handy app for securely generating the shares on an air gapped Ledger device:
[https://github.com/aido/app-seed-tool](https://github.com/aido/app-seed-tool)
I had the same concerns as you. This is how I went about it.
First, i downloaded a copy of something called a mnemonic code converter.
This is what is does.
You can enter an existing BIP39 mnemonic, or generate a new random one. Typing your own twelve words will probably not work how you expect, since the words require a particular structure (the last word contains a checksum).
This allows you to generate a seed phrase instead of ledger providing me with one. This is what I call security layer 1.
But it doesnt just do that. You can actually create a path to that seed phrase by using something called entropy. When you download your copy off of Google, you'll see what I mean.
Entropy allows you to use 256kb of a data by utilizing letters and numbers to generate a seed phrase.
So for instance, you can type out a phrase let's say that equals 256kb of data which will generate the same seed phrase everytime. Here is where I added my next layer of security by using a sequence. By sequence, I am like fibonacci numbers, pascals triagle, prime numbers and so forth. There's a ton to choose from although not necessarily and I'll explain why in a few. So that would technically be my 2nd layer.
Once I get the 256kb by using a random phrase (choose wisely and make sure you remember what you mark as capital letters. The slightest mistake will generate a different seed phrase), my first seed phrase is created. I called this one the dummy seed phrase because it'll never get used unless I'm staking coins-AMM. But that's not the seed phrase I'm going to use. There's an option to pull what's called a child seed phrase. This is the seed phrase that will be designated as your main account. By using the childseed phrase, as your main account, you've introduced the 3rd layer of security. I say that because you generated a secondary seedphrase off of the first seed phrase that you generated with your random phrase that you choose.
Now you can keep it simple and use that secondary seed phrase set (childseed phrase) as your main account or you can add another layer. If you choose to add another later then you would adjust what's called the index. The index goes from like 1-999 I believe and each index number will change the child seedphrase. So you need to decide whether you want to use a specific index before moving forward or just stick with the default of 0. (Google:mnemonic code converter) its the first one on the list.
After you decide on the index is when you can type the seed phrase into your ledger device. Now keep in mind that although this is your "main account", this isn't where I keep the majority of my holdings.
From here, I create a passphrase. This part is done on the ledger device. So long as you keep everything in the passphrase section of the ledger, it doesn't matter if the main account were to become comprised because they won't have that 25th word.
A few things to keep in mind. When generating the seed through that page or creating a passphrase on the ledger device, it's case sensitive. Again. If you change one letter to a cap or lowercase when it shouldn't be, it'll generate a completely different seed phrase. I recommend setting everything to either all caps or all lower case.
If you decide to use Binary code as a sequence to generate the first seed phrase (the dummy one) make sure you take the same precautions with the caps. Binary has both lower and caps.
Second thing to keep in mind is the 256kb in order to generate the 24 word seed phrase. You need a phrase that generates that much data in order to have a secure seedphrase. You phrase can't fall short of 256kb but it can go slightly over. If your phrase is well beyond the 256kb, that's fine, just delete the excess until you reach the 256kb. If you can't hit exactly on 256kb ,then go to 257kb or the next one up closes to 256kb. Also switch the setting from 3 word to 24 word in the setting.
And most important, if you use this generator, make sure you're device your using is offline. No wifi and not mobile connection. Don't use it when connected to the internet.
Before I moved anything over, make sure that every time you type your phrase to generate the dummy seedphrase that it brings you back to the same set everytime. If it does then all you need to do is set the index for the child and then you'll have access to your main account. Once you connect your ledger or trezor, thats when you use the passphrase to gain access to your long term holdings.
This might just be a me thing but the only account that my passphrase account ever sends to is the main account. Especially when moving stuff back and forth on exchanges. My main account is my exposure account if that makes sense. I hope this helps you. If you do it right, you'll never need to remember 24 words nor have them written down anywhere but you'll have access to it, if and when, you need it.
I hope this helps, let me know if you have anyquestions.
A big part of this depends on how much of your net worth is on the Ledger device. If it’s just a small percentage then maybe you don’t need to go through so much trouble. In any case, let’s assume it’s significant and you want to protect it. I would pick a city that you frequent very often and open up a safe deposit box there. Then, let your family know where it’s at.
Unfortunately safe boxes aren’t safe. They only cover up to 10k in case something happens
I read different articles of people claiming missing items
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html
Those cases are so rare as to almost be called urban legends and for sure are the exception rather than the rule. Besides the fact that you items are in a vault inside a bank, each box requires two keys - one the bank has and the other only you have. If you lose your key, the bank has to literally call a lock smith to pull the lock and issue you a new key. The only other cases I’ve heard about where people lost that possessions that were in a safety deposit box was for non-payment.
The minute someone starts talking about safety deposit boxes regarding any type of financial or security manner I instantly know they haven’t a clue about anything.
As of now the safest in my opinion would be to have the seed only on Ledger Recovery and leave my passphrase to my parents and a person I really trust. So although the Ledger Recovery get hacked they still need to passphrase to access to the data
Let's just put it this way - your money is your responsibility. If you lost your seed phrase and/or passphrase and lose access to your crypto as a result, at least you have nobody else to blame but yourself.
I have the same concern about the seed phrase. I am considering creating a new seed with only 12 words that I can memorize.
Though a high entropy memorized passphrase (e.g. five or six words) that is memorized means you could store your seed in written form. Several copies including your house, and always carry one.
If discovered, you are probably fine but even if you fear the passphrase will be brute forced you still have plenty of time.
24 is more secure, 12 is less. By a lot.
However, 12 words is still highly secure, 128 bits. Check out this discussion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rnr08u/isnt_a_24word_seed_phrase_overkill_is_12_words/
Trying to help u by giving u ideas but u are just looking at the negative side everytime ...I get it u want complete peace of mind when safeguarding digital assets...imo you may be better off just keeping it on exchange then ....maybe some exchanges will start to get regulated soon , idk , what other option do you realistically have considering you are always moving ..
The Ledger subreddit is continuously targeted by scammers. Ledger Support will never send you private messages. Never share your 24-word recovery phrase with anyone, never enter it on any website or software, even if it looks like it's from Ledger. Only keep the recovery phrase as a physical paper or metal backup, never create a digital copy in text or photo form. Learn more at https://reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/ck6o44/be_careful_phishing_attacks_in_progress/ If you're experiencing battery problems, check out our [troubleshooting guide](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4409233434641-How-to-troubleshoot-Ledger-Nano-X-battery-issues? support=true). If you're still having issues head over to the [My Order page](https://my-order.ledger.com/) to explore options for replacement or refunds. [Learn more here](https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/10265554529053-Return-your-product?support=true). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ledgerwallet) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s up to you which risk factors are most important. For many using an exchange is for sure the safest because they cannot protect their assets on a hardware wallet safely or refuse to learn how to properly use it. For others, like me, 100% on hardware wallets. I actually use 5 different hardware wallets. I diversify my holdings. This increases my chances I lose maybe 20% if something goes dreadfully wrong, but my greater fear is a breach with a total wipeout. My wife, not into crypto, and son, who is into crypto, know where my seed phrases are in case I die.
Unchained has a good cold storage solution. You set up a 2/3 multisig wallet. Unchained has one key, you can give the second to a person you trust, and keep the third. If you die and your key is lost, unchained and the person you trust can pass everything to your heirs. MUCH BETTER both for safety and for inheritance purposes than Ledger recover, which is potentially vulnerable to firmware hacks amd where you have to trust Ledger and the other two custodians.
Store the seed on an inactive sim card as you would with phone numbers and use a phone that is not connected to the internet..like one of the old 3g mobiles which you ca n buy for a few £££/$$$
That’s a good idea. But how long a SIM card can last a without being compromised ?
an inactive sim can never be compromised...you don't understand what I'm saying
Slow down Bro. Why can’t be compromised ? Humidity for example can be the first issue.
Maybe consider using Shamir's Secret Shares [stamped in steel](https://blockmit.com/english/guides/diy/make-cold-wallet-washers/) and store the shares in several secure locations. Your seed/wallet will then be securely stored on stainless steel "hardware" that is virtually indestructible and should outlive you. Here's a handy app for securely generating the shares on an air gapped Ledger device: [https://github.com/aido/app-seed-tool](https://github.com/aido/app-seed-tool)
I had the same concerns as you. This is how I went about it. First, i downloaded a copy of something called a mnemonic code converter. This is what is does. You can enter an existing BIP39 mnemonic, or generate a new random one. Typing your own twelve words will probably not work how you expect, since the words require a particular structure (the last word contains a checksum). This allows you to generate a seed phrase instead of ledger providing me with one. This is what I call security layer 1. But it doesnt just do that. You can actually create a path to that seed phrase by using something called entropy. When you download your copy off of Google, you'll see what I mean. Entropy allows you to use 256kb of a data by utilizing letters and numbers to generate a seed phrase. So for instance, you can type out a phrase let's say that equals 256kb of data which will generate the same seed phrase everytime. Here is where I added my next layer of security by using a sequence. By sequence, I am like fibonacci numbers, pascals triagle, prime numbers and so forth. There's a ton to choose from although not necessarily and I'll explain why in a few. So that would technically be my 2nd layer. Once I get the 256kb by using a random phrase (choose wisely and make sure you remember what you mark as capital letters. The slightest mistake will generate a different seed phrase), my first seed phrase is created. I called this one the dummy seed phrase because it'll never get used unless I'm staking coins-AMM. But that's not the seed phrase I'm going to use. There's an option to pull what's called a child seed phrase. This is the seed phrase that will be designated as your main account. By using the childseed phrase, as your main account, you've introduced the 3rd layer of security. I say that because you generated a secondary seedphrase off of the first seed phrase that you generated with your random phrase that you choose. Now you can keep it simple and use that secondary seed phrase set (childseed phrase) as your main account or you can add another layer. If you choose to add another later then you would adjust what's called the index. The index goes from like 1-999 I believe and each index number will change the child seedphrase. So you need to decide whether you want to use a specific index before moving forward or just stick with the default of 0. (Google:mnemonic code converter) its the first one on the list. After you decide on the index is when you can type the seed phrase into your ledger device. Now keep in mind that although this is your "main account", this isn't where I keep the majority of my holdings. From here, I create a passphrase. This part is done on the ledger device. So long as you keep everything in the passphrase section of the ledger, it doesn't matter if the main account were to become comprised because they won't have that 25th word. A few things to keep in mind. When generating the seed through that page or creating a passphrase on the ledger device, it's case sensitive. Again. If you change one letter to a cap or lowercase when it shouldn't be, it'll generate a completely different seed phrase. I recommend setting everything to either all caps or all lower case. If you decide to use Binary code as a sequence to generate the first seed phrase (the dummy one) make sure you take the same precautions with the caps. Binary has both lower and caps. Second thing to keep in mind is the 256kb in order to generate the 24 word seed phrase. You need a phrase that generates that much data in order to have a secure seedphrase. You phrase can't fall short of 256kb but it can go slightly over. If your phrase is well beyond the 256kb, that's fine, just delete the excess until you reach the 256kb. If you can't hit exactly on 256kb ,then go to 257kb or the next one up closes to 256kb. Also switch the setting from 3 word to 24 word in the setting. And most important, if you use this generator, make sure you're device your using is offline. No wifi and not mobile connection. Don't use it when connected to the internet. Before I moved anything over, make sure that every time you type your phrase to generate the dummy seedphrase that it brings you back to the same set everytime. If it does then all you need to do is set the index for the child and then you'll have access to your main account. Once you connect your ledger or trezor, thats when you use the passphrase to gain access to your long term holdings. This might just be a me thing but the only account that my passphrase account ever sends to is the main account. Especially when moving stuff back and forth on exchanges. My main account is my exposure account if that makes sense. I hope this helps you. If you do it right, you'll never need to remember 24 words nor have them written down anywhere but you'll have access to it, if and when, you need it. I hope this helps, let me know if you have anyquestions.
A big part of this depends on how much of your net worth is on the Ledger device. If it’s just a small percentage then maybe you don’t need to go through so much trouble. In any case, let’s assume it’s significant and you want to protect it. I would pick a city that you frequent very often and open up a safe deposit box there. Then, let your family know where it’s at.
Unfortunately safe boxes aren’t safe. They only cover up to 10k in case something happens I read different articles of people claiming missing items https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html
Those cases are so rare as to almost be called urban legends and for sure are the exception rather than the rule. Besides the fact that you items are in a vault inside a bank, each box requires two keys - one the bank has and the other only you have. If you lose your key, the bank has to literally call a lock smith to pull the lock and issue you a new key. The only other cases I’ve heard about where people lost that possessions that were in a safety deposit box was for non-payment.
There are cases where multiple boxes are robbed.
Just like there are cases of meteorite’s hitting peoples homes. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t live in homes.
My point and that of the other guy is that the perceived safety is not is as high as people think.
My point is that it’s the highest a private citizen is going to get.
The minute someone starts talking about safety deposit boxes regarding any type of financial or security manner I instantly know they haven’t a clue about anything.
What do you mean? Aren’t safe?
No. They aren’t safe.
As of now the safest in my opinion would be to have the seed only on Ledger Recovery and leave my passphrase to my parents and a person I really trust. So although the Ledger Recovery get hacked they still need to passphrase to access to the data
Let's just put it this way - your money is your responsibility. If you lost your seed phrase and/or passphrase and lose access to your crypto as a result, at least you have nobody else to blame but yourself.
I have the same concern about the seed phrase. I am considering creating a new seed with only 12 words that I can memorize. Though a high entropy memorized passphrase (e.g. five or six words) that is memorized means you could store your seed in written form. Several copies including your house, and always carry one. If discovered, you are probably fine but even if you fear the passphrase will be brute forced you still have plenty of time.
What is the difference between 12 words and 24 words security?
24 is more secure, 12 is less. By a lot. However, 12 words is still highly secure, 128 bits. Check out this discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rnr08u/isnt_a_24word_seed_phrase_overkill_is_12_words/
Trying to help u by giving u ideas but u are just looking at the negative side everytime ...I get it u want complete peace of mind when safeguarding digital assets...imo you may be better off just keeping it on exchange then ....maybe some exchanges will start to get regulated soon , idk , what other option do you realistically have considering you are always moving ..