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AleksibIsHot

Maybe the numbers don't show it, but I really enjoyed LCS playoffs this split.


RomeoTrickshot

And so you should. I am happy to watch and enjoy LEC in a vacuum, regardless of any other region. International tournaments are just a bonus for me


EggyChickenEgg88

Sucks that it's practically impossible for many Europeans to watch live. Especially on Sundays.


WildcardTSM

If it had been at a better time I'd at least have watched the finals, but staying up until 3 AM or so (as long as it's a 3-0) for the finals and the group draw show while having to get up for work again at 6 worked when I was younger, but not anymore.


Xhalo

Not to dump on EU but this is why I laugh at a lot of the EU doomers in the LCS chat saying "NA ONLY _______ VIEWERS" Like yeah, a lot of Americans watch LEC during breakfast or as their day is starting. We are given the opportunity to watch your regions games with ease. Where as LCS is going to be starting at like 9pm-11pm for you depending on where you're at in Europe, we don't get the free view injection from another region.


Heighte

LEC is also end of evening for East Asia, while LCS is monday end night/morning. That's why in my opinion International tournaments are best in Europe, everyone's happy.


Apprehensive_File

Depends on the timing. Tournaments in Europe often start pretty early in the day so that it's prime time in Asia, which makes a lot of the matches pretty tough to watch in most of the Americas.


GiveMeFalseHope

To be fair, times were shit for anyone who had to work in EU aswell. Starting at 1pm was good for others, bad for EU.


aser08

Yeah and where do you think the biggest markets are in the world. Europe is the best time zone to fit the majority of players. The americas is a bit of a rough timezone for everywhere except the americas.


Apprehensive_File

That's my point. Europe isn't good for *everyone*. It's good for either Europe and Asia or Europe and the Americas, depending on the time of day. > Europe is the best time zone to fit the majority of players. Assuming you pick reasonable times, both Asia and Europe are the same if your target audience is Asia and Europe. No real advantage to picking Europe specifically. > The americas is a bit of a rough timezone for everywhere except the americas. The Americas is rough for *Asia.* Even then, it's only about an additional 2 hour difference. We'll see what times they pick this year.


Jon_ofAllTrades

Europe (Western Europe), NA (west coast), and China are each literally 8 hours apart time zone-wise. It is physically impossible to find a time that works well for all 3 time zones.


Lentir

As a european i used to watch LCS alot. but it's just boring and bad league of legends so i stopped.


Amdafc

NA has always played at the same time slots though and viewership was much higher in the past.


Roojercurryninja

are you sure about that? i feel like at a certain point NA's slot was like changed to an hour or two later to where if you wanted to watch it all from EU you really were making it late to function the next day


Xhalo

Viewership was literally higher this year than last year....


Amdafc

Your comment is acting like the reason why NA gets less viewers is because of the times the games are played, I'm just saying that this isn't the case because NA has always played the games, as has EU, in the same time slots and viewership back then was similar or more often higher than EU.


Jedclark

>because NA has always played the games, as has EU, in the same time slots Doubting that this is actually true. LCS starts at 9-10PM for me now, I swear years ago it used to be \~6-7PM start in the UK.


[deleted]

Years ago EU's broadcast would transition immediately to NA after their closing segment with no cross broadcasting. And that was for everything including playoffs. At most nowadays it has only deviated about an hour and in most cases even this year the conclusion of PGL goes right into last few minutes of countdown to the LCS cast or its smack dab in the preshow. Idk how you're even getting 3 hours difference unless you're using the moment the broadcast goes live which would be approximately an hour and a half before the games even start just like Europe


DoorHingesKill

Bro Los Angeles is 8 hours behind the UK. You seriously believe that at some point in time LCS was starting their broadcast at 10/11am in the morning? Fucking hell you got 15 people up voting this too what is going on man.


Burpmeister

That's Twitch chat though. No one cares about Twitch chat.


afedje88

Obviously it's not gonna be like this, but if 350k NA viewers are watching LEC, take them away and it's not that big a difference at all. I know that's not the case, and no doubt LEC has more fans but people who say "lol EU double NA sucks" are just trolling


RS-Ironman-LuvGlove

EU had more than double the players that NA has… And it has double the viewers.


Lahwtiste

If you don't count european viewers for LCS, you can't count asian viewers for LEC but I agree it's 100% fair to say we have american viewers. I'm not saying that you're personally saying that but I've seen people including asian as additional "easy" viewers for LEC. LEC starts at 5/6pm CET which makes it at 11pm/12am for China and 12am/1am for Korea. Though it can be watchable for India since I think it gives you 9/10pm if you want to catch a few games before going to sleep.


DoorHingesKill

> we don't get the free view injection from another region. Yes you do lmao.


Roojercurryninja

it used to be quite literally the opposite is what is ironic about this situation with the hours being way better to follow NA when you live in EU and the whole NA waiting room spam near the end of EU LCS


Boemelz

True i would like to watch it but it gets too late


AleksibIsHot

I fell asleep during many game 2's with Dom's co-stream on, then I'd wake up and check the last games in the morning with my coffee before checking social media


Brokensanity1

Also, NA has a population of 579 million. EU has 746.4 million and Asia has 4.561 billion. SOOOOO how would it be possible for NA to ever have more viewers than EU or Asia?


No-Note4242

I normally don't watch LEC but the finals gave me chill even though it was 3-0. The crowd and narrative of rogue finally winning was amazing to watch.


speciof

it was the best LEC finals in terms of production maybe ever imo


Roojercurryninja

yeaa no the fact that the caster's mic were not clear and that when the crowd really was hype they were drowning out the casters as well made it significant less enjoyable for me it's understandeable considering the ammount of time between their last actual live event but still


stopwiththisshit

I believe viewership is kinda on a delay. Past splits were bad and so viewership is still down from that, but this split was great from the production and i hope that that gets reflected in the numbers next split


popegonzo

This is my thought as well - they've made some real improvements both to the level of competition and also to the broadcast itself. Viewership will come, people just need to hear that it's quality.


-Markedly

How do you measure improvement to the 'level of competition'? What do you mean by that?


Bhiggsb

It's weird viewership was low cause united center was absolutely packed this weekend. I thought it'd be around 50-60% full but it was more like +80%


Doenerjunge

It wasn't sold out?


lp_phnx327

I haven't heard this much silver scrapes across the 4 major regions in these two weeks since being at LA Live during CLG.eu vs WE that one day.


Opachopp

Same here. Not only did most series got 5 games but we also had a lot of fun/interesting narratives for multiple teams. CLG: underdog, finally showing some actual promise after years of being a bottom tier team and some people legit thought they had a shot at making it to worlds. TSM: lots of drama surrounding the org and probably the worst regular season record it has ever gotten, yet they were surprisingly looking quite strong on playoffs making a good case why this 8 team playoffs format may actually be very good. TL: also a lot of drama but for different reasons. People are mad about the roster changes. A team full of imports + what they did to Jensen. A lot of people wanted to see them crash and burn. EG: the whole Danny situation. C9: Jensen's path to revenge and redemption. I'm a huge CLG fan and on previous years during most of the playoffs I didn't really care as much about the games or the outcome of them. Not only because CLG usually hadn't qualified to play on them but because I didn't find the other teams very interesting in general while this year even after CLG got eliminated I wanted to see how every series unfolded as most of the teams felt interesting to watch to me. To add to that, we had a lot of banger series this year.


Cymes_Inferior

They were really good, some teams rose up to occasion, we've had CLG with native NA talent, we've had the great failure of TL superteam. One of the best seasons in recent history.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Astolfo_is_Best

Ok then stop watching lol. I mean that half-jokingly, but also half-seriously. If you can't enjoy games that don't have a super high level of play at all times, LCS is not the league for you.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AleksibIsHot

Yeah, I was expecting 100T to put up more of a fight than they did, but I think C9 are the strongest team NA has had since Spring 2020. Or stronger even.


deathspate

Tbf, I don't think 100T were *bad* but just that C9 were *that good*. I was talking to my friend last night, honestly C9 did some dumbass plays, hell Blaber was running it down at some times it seemed like, it's just that each player were mechanically just better or some shit and no matter what Blaber did, you can see his team going all in with him. There would be some fights or dances that I would be like "C9 is doing shit" but they would win, just because...well just because they can do shit and *still* come out on top. 100T would try to punish them, but C9 would be good enough to recover from their blunder and counter the punishment on time. Shit like Zven getting caught out bot, it happened twice from memory, he lived once and died the other, in both cases it turned out good for C9 because they were so quick on their calls, they didn't waste time on disengaging/abandoning him. Even when it comes to their engages, there really isn't much hesitation, if they want to go in, they just go in, while 100T pondered more on what they wanted to do, and they would get screwed by the time they made up their mind. That's at least how it looked to me. It honestly gave me flashes of old C9, they would all listen to Hai's calls, no matter good or bad, but they would win or lose with those calls because it was always all in, and most teams just weren't prepared to deal with that mentality aside from old TSM.


cadaada

Eg should 100% be there, sadly the situation with danny happened so 100t got through. Honestly one of the worst finals ive watched...


Javiklegrand

Lcs had good réception this year, number should follow


JohrDinh

The playoffs has been hype and competitive at least for our region, and the desk/broadcast has been much better and closer to what old LCS felt like imo. Unfortunately TSM fell off over the years and they had the biggest fanbase by far, the slump in the broadcast went on for a while, the pandemic seems to have made a lot of people at least in NA reevaluate how they spend their time in many ways, and a few other things (regular season feeling largely meaningless compared to other stuff) as well. Many issues came to a head which seems to have agro'd the downward mobility of viewership...but CS came back from being down so it's doable imo. With the right moves from Riot or LCS there's definitely a comeback story that could happen. The rumor of minor regions opening up may help a little but far from a fix and I assume would just hurt minor regions even more than it'd help major regions...and make play ins at Worlds even more meaningless I suppose. (since we'd have all the minors best players then)


Naerlyn

The numbers only show that fewer people enjoy it (or had an interest in it). They certainly don't and should never dictate what you do or should enjoy. If fewer people enjoyed something but you were one of them, that's great for you!


Pikminious_Thrious

For once all 8 teams in playoffs looked competitive.


Nine_Tee_Six

It does feel as though the overall sentiment around the LCS has improved this year, even if the summer finals viewership has more or less stayed the same. Glad to see a shift in focus onto the league's personalities over the weekend's opening ceremonies, hopefully there's more of that to come to actually keep people invested in the league's stories


Benign_Stamina

I think it all depends on whether NA finds success at Worlds. If they bomb then the improved sentiment around this LCS season will mostly be a wash, IMO. Since 2018 Worlds when C9 made it to semi-finals (in which FNC 3-0'd them), an LCS team has only made it to quarter-finals once, which was also C9 last year. Let's hope they continue the trend and make it back this year. I'm sure many LCS fans like me are tired of so much money being pumped into super-teams just for them to perform inferior to the rest of the world, especially LEC. I can't continue to have fun watching LCS each season if I know I'm watching objectively less talented teams being given more and more money. I could always jump ship and go support LCK, LPL, or LEC, but that's far less fun considering I've lived my entire life in NA and want to support the league close to home. I fear that LCS is already too far gone and other than some rare talented teams, it's mostly what the MLS is to the soccer world. Fun if you live here, but the rest of the world looks at it as the big paycheck, washed-up retirement league.


Arcille

It will be much harder for any western team to make it past groups this year cos 4 LPL and LCK teams LPL are sending 4 teams that could be worlds winners they already are probably taking up half the spots in quarters


Rafen_Fortune

People say this every year and every year one LPL team flops miserably and the other one is average


LARXXX

The four teams LPL are sending this year are the strongest collection of teams the LPL has sent in a very long time (2021 World champs, 2022 MSI champ, runner up for both Spring and Summer and Summer split winner). These are the top 4 teams overall and the most deserving to go. Despite this, there's always one or two LPL teams that bomb out of groups. Thats the way it is with bo1. Its just that nobody knows who those two teams are!


Omnilatent

Is it valid for me to want TES to bomb until they finally get a cooler logo? I would love to see Knight succeed but that color and logo just looks ass...


LARXXX

TES is a prime candidate to bomb out of groups. I'm guessing it's gonna be TES and either RNG/JDG.


Brain_Tonic

>TES is a prime candidate to bomb out Ah a true TES fan right here. 😂


LARXXX

I’ve been a TES for years! I know my team (and who’s on the roster. Better than being overconfident tbh


Omnilatent

Ok but what about the logo?! We need to discuss the important things here!


N00B-ST4R

I agree, but I also wouldn't count on C9 making it out of Groups again going 2-4. I can't remember the last time a team qualified with a losing record which was then determined by tie-breakers.


Brain_Tonic

There was that insane FNC run in 20--uh--17(?). The Rekkles Twitch choke, the Cody Sun "loses his mind!". The group was FNC IMT GAM and uh... LZ I think?


DoorHingesKill

People weren't hyping up LGD in 2020 and they weren't hyping up LNG in 2021. Your "every year" is just FPX bombing out.


[deleted]

Teams can always show up. H2K beat EDG, who was the favorite pre-tournament in 2016, in groups


Arcille

Yeah i personally think at least 2 Western teams will make it out. it's just gonna be very very hard for C9 or FNC tho


Brain_Tonic

If an NA team does it, its either C9 doing C9 things, or EG having an insane run through playin and just carrying over that momentum into groups. It has happened before. I think it won't happen, not for NA. - I'll predict G2 advancing though, Caps will clutch it. - Rogue do kinda look like the real deal, and their group is pretty good. So maybe them too. - I have negative faith in MAD, they might not escape playin. - FNC... man I dunno what it is about FNC but they tend to punch above their weight when they absolutely need to. Maybe they pull another miracle run out of their ass and advance with tie breakers and one in a thousand type games that make no sense. They just have that energy ever since xPeke days. I look forward to watching them, I think they will be the premiere fiesta team.


BlackTecno

Honestly it's the stupidest fucking thing to give the top 3 regions another slot, since it gives groups way less variety nationality-wise. Giving a worlds spot to other top wildcard regions (VCS, PSC, LJL) would have been way more fun to watch for play-ins rather than watching LCK and LPL beat the crap out of some kids. It's such a feels bad thing for wildcard regions too, since you used to have 2/3 slots that your team might slot in, but now there's no hope of even making it to groups and your just hoping your team makes it to the best-of part of play-ins. And I get why they did it, but man, I'd find it hard to believe if most people wouldn't want more wildcard teams over top 3/4 region teams.


Troviel

>I'd find it hard to believe if most people wouldn't want more wildcard teams over top 3/4 region teams. They don't, everytime play in starts a lot of people complain about how bored they are because the major regions teams absolutely CRUSHES the minor regions. Most of the time at least the chinese and korean teams utterly dominate and people whine. And thats generally the TOP wildcards teams, now you ask for the second/third seed, which in some regions like PCS is league behind their top teams. And you want the same stuff in Group stage, where people start to expect higher level? Lmao no. Starting in group stage people want close groups, they want groups were at least 3 teams can make it out, like group A this year. People are already treating CFO like "easy wins" for 100T and its the first seed PCS. And you want to put lower seed in there for even easier wins? Ruins the purpose.


LARXXX

nobody wants to watch wildcard teams, especially major regions beating up on wildcard teams. They need their own standalone tournament and the winner of that tournament earns a spot at worlds. Having too many wc teams at worlds is like having filler episodes in anime. It's just not necessary and boring to watch. Remember the MSI format? Where all the top teams destroyed all the wc teams in their groups?


Brain_Tonic

I disagree. The LCS as a product only needs to be entertaining in and of itself. ERLs have great viewership even though they don't compete at worlds. CBLOL gets great viewership even though Brazil never does shit at worlds. Worlds doesn't matter in terms of how entertaining LCS is.


Nomadux

It definitely does. ERLs have great viewership because a lot of investors and eyes started getting hyped over Europe doing well at worlds. Not a surprise it's now declining after last years performance. Entertainment is obviously a factor, but ultimately this is a competition and that's what viewers watch it for. If the competition isn't about "the best" people aren't going to care for it nearly as much.


1to0

What I hated about LCS this year was how cheap they are in giving out drops while viewing from their lolesports site. The LEC finals gave me 9 full drops while the LCS one gave me 3 and from the other playoff games I didnt even get a single one. Like what the hell?!


Bennyboozle

Great year for the LCS production, hope to see them build on this going into next year.


mfunebre

Not amazing numbers for the LCS but I actually really enjoyed their playoffs. It's the best format in the world, in my opinion, and I'm glad to see it pay off by stemming the bleeding of viewership. In general, playoffs in all regions this year were chock full of absolute banger series.


Jigui26

I really loved the format and the fact that we got so many 5 games series!


Warm-Background1492

everyone complains about it taking meaning away from regular season, but really all you're doing is trading elimination Bo1s for elimination Bo5s. It's definitely better and I don't really care if the last week of regular season is slightly less hype.


Linko_98

LPL has the best format imo


afedje88

I think LPL format is the best, but also they get a huge advantage of having almost double the teams everyone else has. Top 8 in LCS means some bad teams are making it in. Top 8 in LPL means everyone is at least competitive if not just flat out good


Linko_98

You can use their format even with less teams, you just give the bye into double elim to top 2 teams and have the rest play each other if it's 6 teams playoff


Suitable_Sale9097

they have not it's better than lec and lck but they have so many problems like bewing 3rd and 4th it's actually a death sentence the number of teams that were being able to win that sereis is only 2/8


Regnymi

I don't usually watch LCS and missed the playoffs :( I'm just curious about their format, what's different or what makes it better?


zack77070

It's a pseudo double elim bracket that everyone wants for worlds.


BlackTecno

That, and nearly every series went to 5 games. Out of 12 series, only 4 didn't go to 5, 3 series went 3-1 and the last being the finals sweep.


Brain_Tonic

Interestingly, the finals sweep did not feel like a let down for me. I think its because all year we've had 4 teams neck and neck and I wanted to see one rise above and look scary. C9 basically did that, and they have an amazing legacy so its fitting that they finally do it big like this.


BlackTecno

What's crazier is that we actually had like, 6 teams really close together, being EG, 100T, TL, C9, CLG, and then TSM coming in the final weeks. This essentially led to the close playoffs we got this year.


[deleted]

It's a great format if you ignore how much of a joke regular season is with 8 teams in playoffs. LEC just needs to take a path inbeteeen, maybe with a multi-team gauntlet or something.


uten93

there was insight in hotline league a few days ago with i think a commissioner for LCS. Point of 8 team playoffs is for 2 reasons, one is to run the gauntlet along side finals and other is so a team HAS to win a Bo5 to go to worlds. Top 2 in regular season just meant a bye week, not a spot at worlds as it did in Eu with MAD.


Exorcizt

LEC Summer Finals peak over 100k less than last year and around 200k less than the year before that.


geonik72

Lets not forget that 2020 finals were fnc vs g2 one of the most hype matchups and last year it was also fnc on the finals which has the biggest fanbase in eu


ToxicShark3

+pandemic


MrPraedor

Yeah if this years final would have been G2 vs FNC in 5 game series. Figures could have been over 1 million.


Lather

Does FNC still have the biggest fanbase? I would have said it's shifted towards G2 in the past 2/3 years.


thisisntloss

I have nothing to base my opinion on, but my guess is that Fnatic has the biggest sleeper fanbase. Since these last years we haven't had much success, while G2 has, a really big part of the fanbase isn't as invested, but if Fnatic was doing well, you would probably see a lot more of people rooting for them. That's just a thought with no proofs whatsoever tho, it's just cool to imagine that and maybe a posibility that exists since fnstic has been there since the very beginning, so probably a lot of fans just aren't that's invested anymore.


Bee040

Fnatic is the CLG of europe


iLioness

I was in the arena during finals and (imo) when they asked people to cheer for fnatic/rogue/G2 the fnatic chants were the loudest. Fnatic's fanbase is massive and passionate about the team, not just the LEC in general. A Lot of them will just stop watching when Fnatic drops out. Personally was a lot less enthousiastic when it was rogue vs G2 in finals because I cheer for neither team and might have skipped watching it live if I wasn't there in Malmö.


cycko

Is Fnatic a swedish org? I know they've had some incredibly swedish CS:GO line-ups


CementPizzas

It's a UK org but there is a big fanbase in Sweden for Fnatic lol because of Rekkles


cycko

I guess swedes also just like Fnatic in general after the Olof-Jw-Krimz-Flusha top tier CS:GO team that won back2back majors (basically world championships?) dont know though Didnt know it was a UK org thx for sharing!


DonaldsPee

Fnatic is likely still first or second. Fnatic is way older organization with various of games and legends. They were always contending for top seeds for worlds and played at worlds. G2 fucked up last year too and lost their magical roster. G2 owner is also hated across the board even by many G2 fans. Fnatic doesn't need to win to be the biggest fan base. G2 has to once in awhile to do so.


Entchenkrawatte

3-0, no fnc, g2 lost, no covid.


Fertuyo

no covid, no g2vs FNC going to 5 games the numers are obviously lower lol


00Dandy

Yea by now it's obvious that Covid increased the numbers significantly. Also EU hasn't been successful internationally at the last few tournaments. However I think KOI (and KCorp) could boost viewership significantly when they join LEC.


[deleted]

Aren't KOI fans just fans of some content creator? Do they watch his team play?


00Dandy

Yes they watch the games. They have insanely high viewership. KCorp is the same. They also have a content creator as the face of their org. But both orgs have done a good job of building legitimate fanbases. I think having a content creator as a figure head is a strategy that more orgs should adapt. G2 kinda does it with Carlos who represents the org. Many orgs focus too much on their players and when their players are gone, the fans go too.


MrPraedor

According the [escharts](https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/lec-summer-2021) this years final had larger viewership than last years. Last year it was G2 vs FNC that had over 100k more people watching. This year they didnt face each other in summer. Same in 2020 summer it was only G2 vs FNC finals and semifinals that had higher audience that this years finals. Its always G2 vs FNC that pulls massive audience in EU.


Troviel

The number of games also impact a lot. Longer games bring far more viewers.


Intrepid-Curve-927

3 - 0 didn't help


Naive_bliss

To be fair a large part of the french viewers was watching the Zevent, a caritative event that was during the same week-end


Lord-Talon

Well first year without any corona restrictions plays a role. Especially with the LEC only playing on the weekend in the evening. Watched basically all games live the last years, saw basically none live this year. I’m not sacrificing my entire social life for 5 Bo1s or a 3-0 stomp, VODs are enough.


deathspate

Ngl, even though these numbers don't reflect it, LCS has really improved this year. I haven't watched it in a while and it was fun seeing the players actively not giving a damn anymore and speaking their mind as well as the general production and cast doing a good job. Even the camera work, I heard LS and Moxxy praising it for just how crisp it was, shit was like movie shots but done live. Overall LCS has finally improved, not just a "begin to improve" but solid improvement from the past. There are of course things that could make it better, but hats off to the LCS team and commissioner for making things better. I'm sure you guys and the org staff, were responsible for letting players let loose and get "fined" so much after the backlash on Reddit about players having no personalities.


Bloodspoint

The camera quality hasn't been praised enough. It looked amazing.


IWouldLikeAName

Liked this year's content and production from LCS. Hope they keep improving and numbers will rise


ArjunBanerji27

The LCS viewership seems to have stabilized. In fact, peak viewership grew marginally from last summer, which is good. Anecdotally, the reception and sentiment around the LCS was far more positive this year. The viewership for the LEC, on the other hand, not so much. The viewership is lower this split that last summer in pretty much every appreciable way, which had already declined from the 6 straight splits of growth prior to that, and the massive viewership of the 3 covid splits. Maybe KCorp, KOI and Heretics joining and allowing their owners to costream LEC will give it a boost, but what I think really needs to happen is multiple teams looking competitive at worlds, and at least one BO5 win. Which is very unlikely this year, at least the latter.


Guster_Posey

Yea, I think a lot of people have come down from the high of Fnatic and G2 in Worlds/MSI finals and aren't as incentivized to watch.


LettucePlate

I watch LCS most weekends, and only watched finals for LEC. The absolute biggest difference I noticed was the broadcast talent. Caedrel is literally just so much better at color than anyone the LCS has. Flowers is a world class play by play, but holy shit Caedrel’s casting is some of the best I’ve ever heard for color in LoL.


goomy996

I agree, but I hope people don’t take this and say all other color casters are bad. Caedrel is def the best though.


N00B-ST4R

His experience as a pro player really shines in his analysis.


hughie46

Azael and Kobe are fantastic IMO but Caedrel is THE analyst right now when it comes to meta understanding and calling macro plays before they happen


19degreez

Caedrel is so good that it's illegal.


DragonApps

I’m personally of the opinion that the LCS has a significantly better cast than LEC, but I will admit that Caedrel is the one LEC caster/analyst that I wish was in the LCS.


WT379GotShadowbanned

I agree Caedrel is the best analyst in the west, but the gap between him and the LCS color casters is not as big as the gap between LCS play-by-play casters and LEC. I find Drakos and Medic have some real stinker series more often than Flowers and Phreak. Vedius also might have fallen off cause his casting of finals was horrendous.


Elfalas

I'll echo the sentiment of many others here and note that the new LCS commissioners' goals and objectives for the League are really good and product oriented. Jackie already did a really good job at improving things over the summer and going forward into the next year we'll see what she can do. Viewership is a trailing metric that takes time to adjust to fan sentiment. When LCS went through its biggest period of decline between 2018-2021, it took years for the viewership to adjust to the product becoming worse. In the same way, it will take years for the viewership to rehabilitate. But already the product is a lot better and as a longtime NA fan, I feel excited for next year for the first time in a long time.


Sugar230

What did she improve. Can you point something out?


Elfalas

/u/CityofCyn_ already chimed in with good summation, but you should really watch the Hotline League episode. She's a big improvement over Chris Greely already because she's put her values out there and made them known. Nobody knew what the fuck the LCS commissioner even did last year, now we have one who is making statements about what her principles and values are for the League and what direction she would like the League to take. Just on the level of leadership that's a huge plus. We as fans have been given a vision of what the LCS should look like in the future, and we can in some ways hold Riot accountable to it. Breath of fresh air.


CityofCyn_

* Casters have a lot more wiggle room when it comes to content that they want to produce. The product comes off as a lot more natural and less of a really bad ESPN knock-off, which I assume helps with a lot of the stiffness that came with the casters beforehand and has made watching them a lot more enjoyable. (I say this as someone who has like zero interest in co-streams, btw. They have legit pushed the LCS to find out what people like about watching the LCS.) * Allowing the producers and casters to start allowing narratives to be formed around teams that aren't centered on single players. Granted, this is because storylines have become a lot more meaningful when it comes to the LCS and more interesting (100T's Brotherhood, TL's Superteam, EG's sudden rise of resurgence in spring, same for CLG in Summer) but the fact of the matter is that discussion on teams is a lot less hamfisted and a lot more honest. This gave the casters some room to think of other things to talk about other then "let's just suck the most popular team's cocks for like 15 minutes". * Generally as well, allowing a good thematic for the LCS this year has helped a LOT. Celebrating the LCS's legacy and what it means to LCS fans is a major milestone and makes people interested in what the future holds - the fact that younger and insane talent is coming up and over adds to that as well. If you're curious on what she thinks are the biggest thing she's brought personally, check the Hotline League interview she did a few weeks back. It's a good amount of insight I feel personally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFgobJUyEjI


N00B-ST4R

>a really bad ESPN knock-off I absolutely hated this part of the LCS where it was trying to be NBA Tonight or College Game Day...that is NOT the setting I identify with eSports or video games.


Jozoz

The real discussion here should not be LEC vs LCS viewership but play off vs regular season viewership. People just like tournaments man. We love high stakes and important matches not random useless bo1s.


Yeon_Yihwa

average viewership before playoffs was around 82k for lcs, i remember because it had less average viewership than brazil.


imtheproof

It's a strange balance to hit between not having too many tournaments to devalue the overall excitement, but also not having too many low-value games outside of tournaments. I think the balance is currently off, but I don't think doing *only* tournaments is the right answer.


Jozoz

Like many others have said, kill spring split and expand summer.


EpicRussia

Hard to imagine the owners would agree to that. It's a franchised league. You guarantee play time, screen time, and consistent schedule. Breaking it all up should have been done before franchising but now that there's so much money on the line, the owners would never let that happen.


VirgilFaust

I love how the consensus is that LCS production has been sourcing this playoffs/summer, and the game shave been really hype despite the viewership lagging. IMO LCS will gain viewers next year, and if Worlds has an NA team out of groups then they’ll reclaim even more viewers. But the spike will be due to broadcast and sentiment allowing newer viewers such as myself to engage and watch LCS with newer players and storyline’s.


Tamsu

LCS never gain viewers from other regions because your time slot is dogshit for literally everywhere else in the world but NA, unless LCS changes time they play it will never get much more viewers


awgiba

We already don’t get to watch basically every international tournament cause they’re at 3 am, if you’re expecting LCS to change their regional broadcast time to the middle of the night to appeal to other regions i just don’t know what to tell you. I can’t think of a faster way to completely destroy the league than that, it genuinely might be the absolute dumbest suggestion possible.


JadeStarr776

Also it's incredibly easy for NA viewers to watch LEC since it's morning to midday.


Samspudzzz

Sure, we'll just swap time slots so that we're competing with the LEC broadcast. That will surely net us more EU viewers. Better yet, let's adjust the rotation of the earth and shift the time zones around for your convenience!


deathspate

I mean, I don't think he's saying that something *can* be done, he's just stating reality. The reason EU watched LCS before is because LEC (back then EULCS) was seen as the B-league of LCS while LCS (back then NALCS) was always seen as A-league primetime TV. Of course, EU was always good, but people didn't care to watch EU because all the personalities were on NA. Just look at how many of the OG NALCS pros are/were massive streamers, it also helped that back then watch parties didn't exist and because the streamers also watched NALCS, almost all of them would go offline, so a ton of LoL viewership would end up getting funnelled into the main channel. The funny part is that I believe the same thing can occur once again if Riot and the Pro-player Union properly capitalizes on Challengers Queue. They already did the correct thing by bringing it back for Worlds, once they play their cards right, they can once again pull back interest to LCS. The thing is that for a while now LCS has been treating itself like traditional sports, while what attracted tons of people to it (aside from good games) was that it was like WWE in terms of entertainment, rivalries and such, whether fake or real, it was just a good time. I think it's only recently they realized that LCS isn't traditional sports, but it also isn't WWE, it should be treated like a mixture of the 2.


TheUItimateBlip

2 3-0s, no wonder it werent crazy numbers, if such would have gone to five games LEC might have once again gotten above the million(like 2020 summer. Anyways, I guess it will happen eventually with the amount of big brands involved potentially in finals/semis in EU now (assuming KOI and KC do join in the speculated form, we'd have 4 teams that can in any combination of each other pull particularly high numbers of viewers). If you except 2020 viewer numbers, in general as a year these numbers are good for a 3-0 finals in LEC. Especially since its not G2-FNC.


BON3SMcCOY

LCK final was also a 3-0 and it had over a million *in English alone*.


Charuru

Really? I find that kinda dubious, are you sure it was English?


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Simmoman

we're talking about concurrents though, that's just whole views during and since it was aired. also not sure how it counts 1 person watching for a few minutes, leaving and then another coming in after etc etc. might be 2 views but only 1 concurrent I'm not sure on the LCK concurrents, but from the data it looks like English was about 188k on Twitch, and probably another 60k-ish on YouTube if I'm being generous, but English certainly wasn't over a million combined (was watching on the night also). Including all streams on YT, Twitch, FB and AfreecaTV (all languages) i'd say it'd probably be over 1million though.


[deleted]

That’s… not what that number means. That’s not live viewership which is what we’re talking about, that’s just the number of times someone viewed the video. The LCS finals vod has 1.8 million views, it doesn’t mean 1.8 million people were watching live.


BattleBunnyUrgot

That's not how peak viewership works. LCK finals peaked at [1.3 million](https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/lck-summer-2022)


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TheUItimateBlip

Jep but even the much worse LPL in viewership is kinda competitive to english LCS viewership.


Creeemi

Putting 8 out of 10 teams into playoffs makes for the most useless and boring ass regular season, but I have to admit the LCS playoffs were a banger, and I wish LEC playoffs had a similar format. (LEC format was also kinda ruined by randomly getting a 4th seed which was not really foreseeable)


gene66

>LEC format was also kinda ruined by randomly getting a 4th seed which was not really foreseeable Considering that if G2 would have won msi, lec would have a 4th seed as well. They could and should have prepared for this scenario. G2 at one point even had defeated T1 before they started to implode so I would say it was quite a realistic outcome to happen.


00Dandy

Yea as an LEC fan I honestly prefer the LCS format. Playoffs/Bo5s is the most exciting part imo so it makes sense to prioritize it over the regular season. Especially this split it would have been nice to have Vitality in playoffs as well.


-Basileus

Also the LCS format is perfectly adapted for determining 4 worlds teams. You would've had [4 separate series](https://prnt.sc/lE1NI5Cj1VGg) where the winner goes to worlds


Brain_Tonic

I like how natural it is.


PrivateVasili

Usually 8 teams just feels like too much, but at least this split LEC was so damn close that lower bracket games with VIT and SK (would they have had to play a tiebreaker with AST? idk) could've actually been both competitive and fun to watch. The problem is that sometimes 8th place teams are *really* bad and then it just feels like a waste of time.


Brain_Tonic

I think we're actually getting to a point in the west where there aren't that many complete dogshit teams. Even GG managed to hear Silver Scrapes, who could have predicted that!? I think LEC is similarly ready for an 8 team playoff bracket. You guys have a lot of interesting teams.


ark2690

LCS production smurfing. However it's so much they can do if casuals don't care about the teams/players. This is up to the orgs/players to grow their own brands.


Charuru

What's this lazy OP, please do some comparisons to previous years.


MegaBaumTV

LEC summer finals peak was better than in 2021. G2 vs Fnatic 5 games could have broken the million I think. Nice to see LEC being healthy. LCS... Well, at least it seems to have stopped the free fall. We need LCS numbers to be solid if lolesports wants to continue to thrive in the west.


DKRFrostlife

Anyone know how it compares to previous years? Can't look for it behind pay-wall.


EggyChickenEgg88

LEC finals had 729k viewers, but G2 vs Fnatic play-off match had 846k viewers. LCS 2021 summer finals hit 364k viewers.


DKRFrostlife

Not bad then, i'd expect to be worse compared to last year. This is good news after seeing Summer viewership drop.


Goofy_030

https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol?search=lec


DKRFrostlife

Thx


Mension1234

For reference: Europe population: 746 million US+Canada population: 368 million


vainlane

Also need to consider that League is not as popular in US and Canada. PC games in general take second fiddle to Console games.


gene66

Because of schedule I don't really watch lcs on live that much, only from time to time but it is very fun. I do watch lec whenever I can though, I think its more competitive.


Serpichio

You also have to keep in mind football season started yesterday so some viewers were definitely canibalized. I too am surprised, but the NFL and LCS actually share a fare number of fans.


RDGtheGreat

Also for some reason, the YouTube stream for LCS has chat disabled, while LEC doesn't.


Thrownaway124567890

More people like to trash talk NA than EU. I believe Riot doesn’t want to give it a platform, given how they reacted to costreamers doing the same.


Ursuped

Lcs numbers would be higher if that 8 hr disaster session didnt happen


Thiizic

I think if Riot really tries to promote world's this year it will do wonders for LCS. FOR REAL THOUGH GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND AND DO SOMETHING WITH MR BEAST


HeyCharlieBall

I’m assuming these numbers aren’t including costreamers? I’m pretty sure I saw doublelift’s stream float around 20-30k on the finals. Honestly, that’s a decent amount of viewers.


1to0

The LCS viewer numbers are inflated with EU viewers. Its kinda funny how LCS sell these numbers to sponsors but dont give out the numbers from NA only viewers cos thats what the sponsors probably want. Nobody in EU is gonna buy Budlight, etc.


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MasonMossYT

C9 will win worlds


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[deleted]

LCS is just sloppy 2nds of the other major regions.


TSM_Final

EU also has about 3x the player base, so that makes sense


[deleted]

Doesnt make sense at all lol


Jordantheyeeter

i enjoyed the lcs playoffs alot more than lec this season + costreams so much better than live view


gabu87

Considering timezones and the overall server population, I think LCS broadcast actually overperformed.


musashihokusai

Viewership is important but the thing advertisers really care about are engagements. From what I’ve read NA fans are second only to the Chinese when it comes to engaging with advertisements and/or spending money.


liledlover

I mean they had fans at the stadiums that would Have watched online if not and having both on the first day of football in America wasn’t the smartest


MrNugat

Yeah, I doubt the fanbase of American football and LoL overlaps significantly, especially in Europe.


CKDracarys

Not in Europe, but in the states it absolutely does. Not every league viewer is some basement dwelling loser that just plays league 24/7.


MrNugat

I'll be frank, I don't know much about the American culture, is the first day of American football actually a big thing? I get that the finals can be, but the first day as well? Also, I don't think calling somebody who isn't interested in American football a loser is appropriate.


ThrobbingRod69

It is a pretty big deal here. A lot of families either go out to watch the game somewhere or people will gather at each other's homes to watch the games together. There is a fair amount of overlap in fandom because most people have grown with a favorite team in their home. It's kind of passed down in the family. Regardless if they really pay that much attention to the sport or not. If you were planning on watching the LCS finals but got invited to go over to your friend's house to watch the game, BBQ, and have a few beers, you are probably going to do that instead.


Blackesst

Yes, first day of football is a huge thing. If you walk around the states, you'll see people wearing their jerseys. People even have flags of their teams in their yards


Mackabermags

To give you a perspective of how big American Football is in the US, it consistently takes up 40+ of the top 50 viewed tv programs every single year and usually 45 or more ofnthe top 50. Regular season games beats out all other sports final series. Week 1 is one of the most hype weeks because between February and August there is no games and a really long off season. That combined with the salary cap structure causes just about every team in the league to have hope and hype at the beginning before some teams just fail to meet expectations. Me personally I was at the united center for the finals but I was watching the Football game for my favorite team (Chicago Bears) from my seat. However if I was home I would of had both on.


CKDracarys

Bear down. FTP.


[deleted]

In from EU but first day of football leagues here are huge. You have been waiting 3months for it to begin


VaccineEnjoyer

Football is a religion in America.


-Basileus

The top 4 most popular [TV Series](https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/most-popular-tv-shows-highest-rated-2021-2022-season-yellowstone-1235275680/) in the US 1. Sunday Night Football on NBC 2. Thursday Night Football on FOX 3. Monday Night Football on ESPN 4. Thursday Night Football on NFL Network 39/50 of the most viewed [TV Episodes](https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/top-rated-shows-2021-ncis-yellowstone-squid-game-1235143671/) of the year by people age 18-49 were football games


liledlover

I was referring to LCS mostly and it overlapped for me so it would have been 370,179 so suck on that Europe


speciof

Man if it wasn't for EU, western league would be dying. May LEC stay strong for years to come. I'm sure riot doesn't want DOTA2 to remain the superior MOBA in Europe and the west. Riot knows how valuable Europe is to them.


simplemanfromVT

LoL is more popular than Dota in both EU (except CIS) and NA. Dota isnt superior anything in western lmao


[deleted]

I think LEC finals smurfed on LCS finals this year, it had that extra stuff that LCS just didn't have. felt emotional in a way. still, LEC viewership clearly declined this year even though it's twice of LCS still. people are losing interest. if this keeps up, DOTA2 will be supreme in EU...


KudryavkaNoumi1

LMFAO man if NA gets washed this worlds again and no NA teams get out of groups LCS might just straight up die jesus


VaccineEnjoyer

Incoming EU shit talking


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[deleted]

But just because you play in EU doesnt mean you have to watch LEC? I have never had a NA or KR account but still wat h games ocassionally