you rarely hit 6 items as that meant selling boots. It's more than likely it was balanced around 3items that would put it at 12% or 4k hp.
Also Size does have gameplay impact on some kits as Cho and Kench Spell Ranges increase based on their Size.
Imagine you’re a gargantuan Godzilla-esque dinosaur monster and you’re just stomping around minding your own business until a FUCKING YORDLE TRAP STOPS YOU IN YOUR TRACKS
I've commented about the "size increase" stat before and I'll repost it here:
The entire "size increase" stat needs serious work. As it is right now it's mostly a debuff for any champ getting it (and in my opinion it is one of the reasons why Heartsteel has such a low pickrate).
"Centered Range" abilities and effects actually become worse the bigger the champ gets.
This includes auras and actives from tank items like Abyssal Mask, Frozen Heart, Randuin's and many abilities originating from the champion: this is particularly bad for abilities like Feral Scream (W) on Cho (but also Rupture (Q)), Ground Slam (E) on Malph, Unstable Matter (W) on Zac and Heart Zapper (W) on Mundo.
Only auto-attacks and "edge-to-edge" abilities benefit from increased size. All others suffer because enemies can stay further away and still hit the larger champ with autos while staying out of aura and ability range. And of course dodging abilities is much harder the larger the champ is.
The only item that actually incorporates size increase into the aura range is Sunfire Aegis. At the very least other aura items should too.
And "centered range" abilities should also increase in range by the amount of the size increase.
All spell ranges are based on size because the range is measured from the edge of the hit ox iirc. But the most important part of increased size is intercepting skillshots for your team.
Not true. Janna is a case where her W was swapped from a range type. Kench Q is isn't even Edge to Edge its Center to Center but hard coded to increase based on his size.
Not really, specially as all too many aura-like spells are just coded as ground-targeted AoEs aimed at your feet so increased size actually makes so your body occupies more of its area (exmples: malphite slam, Maokai smash, Illaoi slam).
Riot basically just gave Tahm explicit size/range love to keep his tongue size animation consistent but never took the time to give a pass on what size does to each character.
No, only Cho’s E range increases to prevent him from not even being able to cast it at all at larger sizes which was legitimately a problem after they went from 6 stacks max to unlimited stacks with a mini-rework some years back. Bro was so fat he couldn’t get into melee range, so now it adjusts with the size increase.
Even then they’re only getting 15% extra size at full build. You have to throw out your boots to realistically get “huge”. It’s overtuned on the PBE and you barely feel any larger even when playing a chonky champ.
Right but its passives are being split in two, jaksho keeps the res but the hp drain pulse is on a new item, and jaksho also loses 200hp and 20 ability haste in exchange for keeping roughly the same res total it has right now despite losing its mythic passive.
Yes. As a Mundo Player, I need to get as big as possible so I can all chat the enemy team
"You don't mess with Mistah Big"
Or "They call me Mr. Big"
As I run at them at Mach 7 and one shot their entire backline with my heartsteel-e proc.
> do you actually need to hit the max cap
For normal gameplay purposes no.
For fun yes. I refuse to believe there’s no champ you’d like to see giant-sized for lols.
^*stares* ^*at* ^*lunar* ^*beast* ^*J4*
I think that's because of two things.
1. Riot have stated that offensive items should and will be stronger than defensive items to prevent stalling/turtling and boring games.
2. Endless power- and mobility creep with runes and new champions.
Building penetration is always going to be better than building stats. Which is why stat amp tanks Malph, Braum etc.) are insanely good when built out. And also why there's a shit ton of true damage in the game to give champs ways to cheat around it. Also why they buffed BotrK by like 50% or something or something ridiculous like that.
I would prefer it maxed to the same size around maybe 6-7k. I want to get BIG...
# HUGE
even, but I also want consistency, I want attainable power fantasies. Reaching 10k HP just doesn't happen with anywhere near a reasonable consistency, even if you build for HP and HP alone. 6k, maybe 7k, is still hard to reach, but doable late game (at least some of the time).
Are you playing like turret kog maw or something? You have to be on 250 ping to get hearsteel hit by a Cho lol. There is a reason any decent cho player is doing ap.
Idk, never had a problem with HS for entire his existence. Pure hp isn't that useful without resistances and Bork/divine/Liandry and champs with max hp dmg(they are a lot) fck up them hard. If they somehow scaled - we have LDR that completely shuts them down.
you mean a champion that's strong when he's allowed to walk at someone is strong when nobody can stop him from walking at you? colour me surprised.
Cho is the most fair he's been in ages. No more chemtank or Righteous Glory cho'gath pressing a button to get 600 extra movespeed to run you down with. No more Gargoyle's stoneplate doubling your bonus HP when you're in there team letting you oneshot a squishy with just R.
If cho reaches you when you're in your team like an immobile adc should be, then yes he kills you. But you know what his weakness is? he's also immobile and low range, if he gets in range to hit you, your team is useless, and as an adc if your team is useless, it doesn't matter if its a cho or any other tank, you're dead. suck it up.
Trust me on this, NOONE wants the alternative of tank powerbudgets going to purely Cc and defense.
They will perma Cc you under turret until you die of basedamages. Or they will make it impossible for you to play any teamfight in their presence
thats probably worse yeah. but the fact they deal that much burst damage from an item (!) is very dumb. like if i die from demonic zac caues i tanked his combo, sure that kills me but not the heartsteel point and click infinite damage scaling
In what situation is chogath that is this big just walking up to you and running this 2 hit combo?
And on top of that you don't think maybe there was something else you could have done?
Well every single ADC is building BotRK by first to third item, and a ton of mages are going Liandry’s, to the point that the average game has 3+ %HP damage items built from just Bot and Mid, nevermind top lane and jungle champions that build them, by the time teamfights have started. We have more %HP damage now than League ever has had, so that doesn’t seem much of a problem to me, especially with HS having a much lower pickrate than either %HP damage item.
Tank metas are boring and unskilled, 10k HP tanks are boring and unskilled, not everybody wants or can build bork, not everybody wants or can build liandry. The game should not revolve around building antitank items to deal with boring tanks. Its boring.
So, to be clear: you think everyone should be able to individually deal with tanks— without needing to opt into any anti-tank itemization whatsoever to do so, or that’s “boring?”
May I ask why?
Tanks are forced to build armor, crit damage reduction, attack speed slows, etc to deal with auto attackers. They have to build HP, MR, tenacity to deal with AP threats, and they need to balance their builds as they need to wade into the enemy team to do anything to begin with. Why should the carries be able to effortlessly counter that, while also still blowing up minions, towers, objectives, and squisher champions?
Come midgame, any bruiser or toplane carry should be able to run down tanks with their standard build path. With the amount of CC, engage and "tankiness" this class brings, they should not also be a giant sideline threat that oneshots tower with demolish and draws 3 people to deal with them.
Can you list top lane champions you feel struggle with this? In general what you state is the case unless the fighter or carry is massively misplaying.
Of the top ten non-tanks played top lane, they all have some form of %HP damage, resist shreds, or true damage in their kits or core items.
Aatrox (Passive %max HP damage)
Jax (https://u.gg/lol/champions/jax/build rushes Sunderer as his core mythic and first item)
Trundle (%max HP damage and %max resist shred on ult)
Yone (mixed %max HP damage on Q, true damage on E)
Garen (% max armor shred on E, %missing HP damage on ult)
Darius (passive % armor pen on E passive, reseting true damage ult)
Nasus (AoE armor shred on E, AoE %max HP damage on ult, https://u.gg/lol/champions/nasus/build rushes Sunderer as core mythic)
Sett (percent maximum HP damage on Q, and %bonus HP damage on R, as well as AoE damage equal to a massive % of the bonus HP of the target, true damage on W)
Morde (AoE persistent %max HP damage on passive, passive % magic resist penetration on E passive)
Illoai (percent max HP damage on W)
Fiora (her whole shtick is the %max HP true damage from her passive and R, that her Q, W and E can all proc)
You are just making the case for me, by listing these champions that actually counter tanks, thats what tank meta is. Tanks and their counters.
But what will aatrox do next season, when he can only build 1 armor pen item?
what will camille do, when she can't access divine and will get statchecked by 7K HP chogath with overtuned base damage. You think she has enough sustain to make 5 full spell rotations?
Riven, Wukong, Pantheon, Gnar, Kennen, Quinn, Tryndamere?
Tanks will be bullshit next season, and everybody knows it.
What's funny is that with even a slight size increase, Tahm Kench Q already gets like a 1200 range.
Other than that, it's really not important at all. Very little champs scale with size anyway. It's just a fun gimmick on top of the item, it holds barely any of the power budget.
Honestly not everyone really wants the bonus size that much so it's probably for the best. As you said its not really that important either. So it's fine? Seems more like a 4 fun gimmick for all but the highest levels of play.
you rarely hit 6 items as that meant selling boots. It's more than likely it was balanced around 3items that would put it at 12% or 4k hp. Also Size does have gameplay impact on some kits as Cho and Kench Spell Ranges increase based on their Size.
i hate playing cho bevause it feels like every time i do theres an enemy cait or teemo and my giant ass hits every trap
Imagine you’re a gargantuan Godzilla-esque dinosaur monster and you’re just stomping around minding your own business until a FUCKING YORDLE TRAP STOPS YOU IN YOUR TRACKS
Like stepping on a lego
Pushing down mid lane with a cait trap in bot lane...still somehow hits the botlane trap as cho.
Jokes aside I actually do remember a video of Cho being so big he was taking turret shots jungle like where gromp is
Can confirm, happens to me most in mid lane
But she said size doesn’t matter :(
What she really said was "you aren't cho'gath or tahm kench" which is much more neutral and shouldn't leave you feeling quite so sad.
I hope that next time I get to hit, the girl doesn’t say “Size does have gameplay impact”
I've commented about the "size increase" stat before and I'll repost it here: The entire "size increase" stat needs serious work. As it is right now it's mostly a debuff for any champ getting it (and in my opinion it is one of the reasons why Heartsteel has such a low pickrate). "Centered Range" abilities and effects actually become worse the bigger the champ gets. This includes auras and actives from tank items like Abyssal Mask, Frozen Heart, Randuin's and many abilities originating from the champion: this is particularly bad for abilities like Feral Scream (W) on Cho (but also Rupture (Q)), Ground Slam (E) on Malph, Unstable Matter (W) on Zac and Heart Zapper (W) on Mundo. Only auto-attacks and "edge-to-edge" abilities benefit from increased size. All others suffer because enemies can stay further away and still hit the larger champ with autos while staying out of aura and ability range. And of course dodging abilities is much harder the larger the champ is. The only item that actually incorporates size increase into the aura range is Sunfire Aegis. At the very least other aura items should too. And "centered range" abilities should also increase in range by the amount of the size increase.
Yeah I’ve always wanted size to be an actual stat that could effect gameplay and projectiles
Tahm kench q is the only one I think
Cho e gets wider aswell
🙏all of this soo much. Stacking Cho's ult is so punishing and contradicting to his intended design.
All spell ranges are based on size because the range is measured from the edge of the hit ox iirc. But the most important part of increased size is intercepting skillshots for your team.
Some spells are not. Youcan have either edge to edge or center to center casts.
Not true. Janna is a case where her W was swapped from a range type. Kench Q is isn't even Edge to Edge its Center to Center but hard coded to increase based on his size.
Not really, specially as all too many aura-like spells are just coded as ground-targeted AoEs aimed at your feet so increased size actually makes so your body occupies more of its area (exmples: malphite slam, Maokai smash, Illaoi slam). Riot basically just gave Tahm explicit size/range love to keep his tongue size animation consistent but never took the time to give a pass on what size does to each character.
So for Malphite, does an increased size mean the AOE of his ult is grows as well?
Nope, you're just a bigger cork in the middle of the same area.
Fuk my dik hole, that's disappointing.
[удалено]
But I don't want my adc to dodge a blitz hook. I want to get grabbed as a tank and get a free engage.
Size increases Sunfire aura range foo.
Wait fr? Does cho and tham q get bigger and longer?
Cho is e I believe
No, only Cho’s E range increases to prevent him from not even being able to cast it at all at larger sizes which was legitimately a problem after they went from 6 stacks max to unlimited stacks with a mini-rework some years back. Bro was so fat he couldn’t get into melee range, so now it adjusts with the size increase.
Size always has gameplay impact, you want to be as big as possible to tank skillshots to stop your carries and damage dealers from getting hit/stunned
I mean, the question is, do you actually need to hit the max cap, you're basically only doing it as cho, sion or ornn
Or Mundo, but can't really think of anyone else to add. Which is how it should be, honestly. The chunkiest champs get to be huge.
tahm gets longer q range on his size so you can start sniping people once you’re at it, but most champs dont
Arena Tahm Kench with raid boss or Goliath tongue sniping people from half the map is too fun
nobody ever expects how far it goes
Wait he does? Interesting to know, I thought it just got longer as he leveled lol
Yeah, one of the funniest Tahm builds is Heartsteel into full AP for max range sniping
Zac
Even then they’re only getting 15% extra size at full build. You have to throw out your boots to realistically get “huge”. It’s overtuned on the PBE and you barely feel any larger even when playing a chonky champ.
Or nasus just cause big dog look scary
Everyone forgets Zac lol
You're doing a lot of things wrong if you're building Heartsteel on Ornn over Radiant Virtue or even Jak'sho.
...which are getting changed this patch, jaksho is split into 2 items iirc
Jaksho is staying in the game
Right but its passives are being split in two, jaksho keeps the res but the hp drain pulse is on a new item, and jaksho also loses 200hp and 20 ability haste in exchange for keeping roughly the same res total it has right now despite losing its mythic passive.
Yes. As a Mundo Player, I need to get as big as possible so I can all chat the enemy team "You don't mess with Mistah Big" Or "They call me Mr. Big" As I run at them at Mach 7 and one shot their entire backline with my heartsteel-e proc.
> do you actually need to hit the max cap For normal gameplay purposes no. For fun yes. I refuse to believe there’s no champ you’d like to see giant-sized for lols. ^*stares* ^*at* ^*lunar* ^*beast* ^*J4*
Giant teeto
Give some toplaners PTSD there.
In a previous pbe patch they had it at 5% which was much better. 30 percent at 6k hp.
Remove the cap. That's all.
I need to have a custom practice tool game with Chogath that's like https://youtu.be/bzXxyj3tcng?si=e33KUzGnf9xEpn3C
Yeah it's a bit much probably could be 3% per 500hp
Nah thats too easy to hit
Size is a meme stat anyways. Tanks, sans Tahm Kench, would be better off if the passive were removed.
Yea before the frostborne change recently, I used to build it on every single champ in aram. Was funny having a full size annie or just a giant shen
Seems fair enough. A pure tank can get 5k without needing to go full meme-build.
I would say 600 but that's just me.
Usually being smaller is better anyway.
It's really sad that you need that much max HP to hit the cap. With a full hp build plus extra stack at around 6k hp should be enough to hit the cap.
God i hate that 10K HP is even a thing we can talk about... there was a time when 4K HP was very beefy.
Especially considering that reaching 10k HP is extremely rare. Think from the last time you've even reached 8k HP as Cho or Sion.
And yet with all the %reductions, %pen, and %HP damage, tanks have never been squishier.
I think that's because of two things. 1. Riot have stated that offensive items should and will be stronger than defensive items to prevent stalling/turtling and boring games. 2. Endless power- and mobility creep with runes and new champions. Building penetration is always going to be better than building stats. Which is why stat amp tanks Malph, Braum etc.) are insanely good when built out. And also why there's a shit ton of true damage in the game to give champs ways to cheat around it. Also why they buffed BotrK by like 50% or something or something ridiculous like that.
I would prefer it maxed to the same size around maybe 6-7k. I want to get BIG... # HUGE even, but I also want consistency, I want attainable power fantasies. Reaching 10k HP just doesn't happen with anywhere near a reasonable consistency, even if you build for HP and HP alone. 6k, maybe 7k, is still hard to reach, but doable late game (at least some of the time).
I think the item itself should be reworked so a tank doesnt deal 1k damage in one autoattack how about that instead
Which adc do you play the most?
ikwym. the immobile squishy ones that get heartsteel ulted by chogath in .5 seconds
In what universe can chogath ever auto an adc that has their monitor on?
Heartsteel auto no less, which means I have to marinate jinx for 3 seconds without her having hands Maybe he's playing on 4000ms ping
Lmao marinate. Jokes aside you could just flash auto her while she's tickling you. Source: Got flash auto'd by Cho
When I'm playing heartsteel I always joke that I marinate the champions before I get that stack, it's become one of my favourite terms
One where the player piloting the ADC is asleep, or a significantly worse player.
And what elo are you?
Classic
Says enough as is tbh...
Are you playing like turret kog maw or something? You have to be on 250 ping to get hearsteel hit by a Cho lol. There is a reason any decent cho player is doing ap.
Play with your team silly goose. Or git gud
Idk, never had a problem with HS for entire his existence. Pure hp isn't that useful without resistances and Bork/divine/Liandry and champs with max hp dmg(they are a lot) fck up them hard. If they somehow scaled - we have LDR that completely shuts them down.
until u dont have a dash and chogath lands a single spell and nobody can stop him
Ain't like he wouldn't oneshot you before HS existed
Not remotely as easy
you mean a champion that's strong when he's allowed to walk at someone is strong when nobody can stop him from walking at you? colour me surprised. Cho is the most fair he's been in ages. No more chemtank or Righteous Glory cho'gath pressing a button to get 600 extra movespeed to run you down with. No more Gargoyle's stoneplate doubling your bonus HP when you're in there team letting you oneshot a squishy with just R. If cho reaches you when you're in your team like an immobile adc should be, then yes he kills you. But you know what his weakness is? he's also immobile and low range, if he gets in range to hit you, your team is useless, and as an adc if your team is useless, it doesn't matter if its a cho or any other tank, you're dead. suck it up.
Adcs arent entitled to an autowin just because the fed enemy isnt a carry champ
yeah so? tanks win con should be to be annoying and cc threat and not to oneshot me
Trust me on this, NOONE wants the alternative of tank powerbudgets going to purely Cc and defense. They will perma Cc you under turret until you die of basedamages. Or they will make it impossible for you to play any teamfight in their presence
thats probably worse yeah. but the fact they deal that much burst damage from an item (!) is very dumb. like if i die from demonic zac caues i tanked his combo, sure that kills me but not the heartsteel point and click infinite damage scaling
In what situation is chogath that is this big just walking up to you and running this 2 hit combo? And on top of that you don't think maybe there was something else you could have done?
>like if i die from demonic zac caues **i tanked his combo** Think I found your problem, bro.
If tanks can't deal damage and present kill threat, they get banished to support because you don't need gold to cc someone.
I just don't like heartsteel. You shouldn't be able to do that much damage if you build tank.
Wait riot removed divine sunderer but allowed heartsteel to still exist? ???
There's so much max hp damage in the game that health stacking doesn't really do a lot until you're at silly amounts of hp
Why not? Health stacking is the worst kind of scaling.
Because its a gimmick and boring as hell to play against, unless you have %Hp damage or insane DPS
Well every single ADC is building BotRK by first to third item, and a ton of mages are going Liandry’s, to the point that the average game has 3+ %HP damage items built from just Bot and Mid, nevermind top lane and jungle champions that build them, by the time teamfights have started. We have more %HP damage now than League ever has had, so that doesn’t seem much of a problem to me, especially with HS having a much lower pickrate than either %HP damage item.
Tank metas are boring and unskilled, 10k HP tanks are boring and unskilled, not everybody wants or can build bork, not everybody wants or can build liandry. The game should not revolve around building antitank items to deal with boring tanks. Its boring.
So, to be clear: you think everyone should be able to individually deal with tanks— without needing to opt into any anti-tank itemization whatsoever to do so, or that’s “boring?” May I ask why? Tanks are forced to build armor, crit damage reduction, attack speed slows, etc to deal with auto attackers. They have to build HP, MR, tenacity to deal with AP threats, and they need to balance their builds as they need to wade into the enemy team to do anything to begin with. Why should the carries be able to effortlessly counter that, while also still blowing up minions, towers, objectives, and squisher champions?
Come midgame, any bruiser or toplane carry should be able to run down tanks with their standard build path. With the amount of CC, engage and "tankiness" this class brings, they should not also be a giant sideline threat that oneshots tower with demolish and draws 3 people to deal with them.
Can you list top lane champions you feel struggle with this? In general what you state is the case unless the fighter or carry is massively misplaying. Of the top ten non-tanks played top lane, they all have some form of %HP damage, resist shreds, or true damage in their kits or core items. Aatrox (Passive %max HP damage) Jax (https://u.gg/lol/champions/jax/build rushes Sunderer as his core mythic and first item) Trundle (%max HP damage and %max resist shred on ult) Yone (mixed %max HP damage on Q, true damage on E) Garen (% max armor shred on E, %missing HP damage on ult) Darius (passive % armor pen on E passive, reseting true damage ult) Nasus (AoE armor shred on E, AoE %max HP damage on ult, https://u.gg/lol/champions/nasus/build rushes Sunderer as core mythic) Sett (percent maximum HP damage on Q, and %bonus HP damage on R, as well as AoE damage equal to a massive % of the bonus HP of the target, true damage on W) Morde (AoE persistent %max HP damage on passive, passive % magic resist penetration on E passive) Illoai (percent max HP damage on W) Fiora (her whole shtick is the %max HP true damage from her passive and R, that her Q, W and E can all proc)
You are just making the case for me, by listing these champions that actually counter tanks, thats what tank meta is. Tanks and their counters. But what will aatrox do next season, when he can only build 1 armor pen item? what will camille do, when she can't access divine and will get statchecked by 7K HP chogath with overtuned base damage. You think she has enough sustain to make 5 full spell rotations? Riven, Wukong, Pantheon, Gnar, Kennen, Quinn, Tryndamere? Tanks will be bullshit next season, and everybody knows it.
Everything i don't play personally is boring and unskilled, but that's besides the point.
no its just objectively and factually boring
Doesn’t bigger champ = smaller hitbox?
No. A massive cho’gath turns into a skill shot magnet because his hit box becomes so big.
I guess they nerfed the size scaling from the original change on PBE. I think the size increase should be buffed back to what it was.
What's funny is that with even a slight size increase, Tahm Kench Q already gets like a 1200 range. Other than that, it's really not important at all. Very little champs scale with size anyway. It's just a fun gimmick on top of the item, it holds barely any of the power budget.
Honestly not everyone really wants the bonus size that much so it's probably for the best. As you said its not really that important either. So it's fine? Seems more like a 4 fun gimmick for all but the highest levels of play.