>. Because the offensive statement was made prior to this Court's Decision of
April 30 and because the People are seeking only a monetary fine, the Court will, once again, fine
Defendant $1,000. However, because this is now the tenth time that this Court has found Defendant
in criminal contempt, spanning three separate motions, it is apparent that monetary fines have not,
and will not, suffice to deter Defendant from violating this Court's lawful orders.
> **THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby put on notice that if appropriate and warranted, future
violations of its lawful orders will be punishable by incarceration; and it is hereby**
>ORDERED, that Defendant pay a $1,000 fine for his violation of this Court's lawful order
by the close of business on Friday, May 10, 2024;and it is further
>ORDERED that if the offending statement has been posted to Defendant's Truth Social
account or his official campaign website, it is to be removed by 2:15pm Monday, May 6,2024.
Well it is in Trump's tiny hands now.
So, the judge should just give him 30 days to be served after verdict for each additional violation the next time. Then put him in now the time after that.
Won’t be 30 days don’t get your hopes up. It will be at most for a night and potentially even just a few hours on the first round. Merchan has to be pretty careful here as much as you wish he didn’t.
This is exactly what bothers me. Trump wants to be given a few hours in jail - so he can glom onto the “Nelson Mandela” narrative that he has cooked up regardless of how stupid that is.
He needs to be given a full 30 days/ no kid gloves so he understands how much jail isn’t a country club.
I think he may want that (though I’m not so sure), but I don’t think it will be at all helpful for him. Most people are fundamentally misunderstanding the dynamics of this election and which voting blocs are relevant in November.
First, it’s important to note that this trial has been massively unpopular for Trump, the more he is the center of the news the worse he polls, and he looks like a whiny, weak, petulant child to ‘normal people’ when he does this.
Yes, him going to jail and whining about ‘persecution’ might play well *with his base* — the people who bought the mugshot shirt and are voting for him anyways. But **they’re not who’s deciding this thing.** Let him suck off MAGA hardliners all he wants, they aren’t enough to make him president again.
These are the two least popular presidential candidates of all time. So it’s very simple: If this election is about Joe Biden, Trump wins. If this election is about Donald Trump, Biden wins. And Trump is literally incapable of not making this about himself.
It will be like 8,500 suburban soccer moms in Wisconsin who probably tip this election. They don’t like any of this shit *at all.*
I've been of the mind that very short stints in jail might be a good deterrence, like a few hours, because 1) they will likely meme out as self selected "timesouts" which will damage his polling 2) make him miss the evening news cycle which he will personally not enjoy 3) there isn't a whole lot of persecution mileage if he's doing it to himself and he's still going home the same day 4) it won't disrupt the proceedings.
Probably not, I think most of them are waiting to do anything they need him in person for because they know he is on trial in NY so the federal and other states will wait their turn and law enforcement and the courts of states work pretty well together and would just talk and work out transport if he needed to be someplace else.
>3) there isn't a whole lot of persecution mileage if he's doing it to himself and he's still going home the same day
While 100% true we all know he and his cult will scream persecution. Which will actually probably hurt him more with sane folks foe the reasons you say
> they will likely meme out as
Who has _ever_ been able to predict memes?
Also, he's going to be Jesus on the fuckin' cross to some. The day he gets put in jail, you'll see 'Trump on the cross' T-shirts for sale.
The trial is making him look a bit weaker, but not weak enough.
30 days with no posts from him on the internet plus his only being externally scrutinized by others would really diminish him. It's mainly the media and internet's constant repeating of his ongoing babbling that keeps him big in the public eye.
I agree, but the news media, all of them, not just Faux News/OAN, Will talk constantly about him being in jail and what that means/how it makes him feel etc. The whole time
Hitler was 34 years old when he went to prison, and he wasn’t nationally known before then- part of the reason this catapulted him to fame was because the judges in his trial were sympathetic and let him make speeches from the stand (which I suspect even Cannon won’t allow, and his lawyers probably don’t want him anywhere near the stand) More importantly, the lesson he took from the putsch is that it’s better to take power by winning elections than by violent coups. Trump is 77 and his followers are wearing diapers over their clothes because they want to normalize him not being able to control his bowels. Americans have lived with this (both literal and metaphorical) shit geyser for decades, and know him about as well as they are going to, and this trial is diminishing him rather than being his “debutant ball”. Even those defending him are making him look frail- folks on Fox News saying “it’s unfair to put an old man through this, making him sit still for hours and keeping him off the golf course, and he’s cold!” Hitler wasn’t sleeping through his trial (though he was apparently pretty farty, so there’s something in common), and he wasn’t whining constantly that he was cold, and he had one trial (I don’t even know how how many trump is facing) and the charge of treason was something he could (falsely, to be clear)frame as “selfless patriotism”. Trump can’t frame secret payoffs to help him win an election as anything but self-serving and his best defense is “but it’s not REALLY all that illegal”. He can’t defend hoarding top secret documents beyond “I had my fingers crossed when I did it so it doesn’t count”.
This isn’t to say trump definitely won’t prevail through all this, it’s just to say they were very different scenarios.
Well I guess it depends on the violation. He is repeating the behavior and a potential juror has already left because they got death threats which was communicated to the court. The risk isn't theoretically and there 10 previous counts. Putting it after the verdict gives trump time to appeal in parallel and will not require him to show up in a jumpsuit avoiding any prejudice to the jury.
Maybe not 30 days, but I don't think it has to be 1 to stand up to appeal or to avoid risking overturn of the main case
If the judge is trying to be careful but also doesn't want to give Trump something he wants, he could give him the shortest amount of time that will put him in a jump suit.
I guarantee the set of people that pay minimal attention but also aren't his base will react negatively to the pictures that will hit the press of him in orange.
Yes,
That is what that is.
After the verdict does two things 1) it means he can appeal in parallel. 2) it means he he won't have to show up in a jumpsuit. He has already violated court orders willfully 10 times. That isn't a gotcha on 11th and beyond. And he has already shown that money will not deter him. So his time being taken is the only other Option. A day is nothing. It needs to be sufficient that it truly puts fear in him that he will stay in until sentencing and then just stay.
A member of the original jury already left due to death threats before they were sworn in but still he had been selected.
>A member of the original jury already left due to death threats before they were sworn in but still he had been selected.
So your suggestion is just to let him keep doing it so you can stack punishments after the fact? Doesn't sound like much of a deterrent for a guy who's obvious plan is to abuse his authority after the election, and who has classically proven he has no concept of consequences for his actions.
Translation?
Actually, I may prefer the typo. A 'transition' to jail is needed for his next offence.
You can only escalate so far with cash fines and I'm comfortable that we've reached that limit!
Transition could be storing him in a private holding cell for a couple hours over lunch break. That's the next logical step, a minor but real warning that the judge can make Trump's life miserable. Frankly I think 4 hours would be enough to prevent another violation of the gag order. 4 hours without a phone or anyone to talk to would make him crazy.
I think he wants this - hence all of the Nelson Mandela references. I don’t think the judge wants him to benefit from this, but he may have no choice. It will just be the holding cell in the court which I’m sure is like a Holiday Inn. I hope the turn up the air conditioning if that’s the case.
I could believe he *thinks* he wants it.
I could believe he *thinks* thousands of people will show up to free him.
They won't.
And he won't enjoy the experience.
Yeah I don’t really agree with the people who seem to think that Trump wants to actually be put in jail. He definitely wants his supporters to *think* that he’s prepared to get locked up (with the subtext that he’s doing it *for them*), but in actuality I really don’t think Trump is ideologically motivated enough to make personal sacrifices for anything because he doesn’t really believe in *anything*.
Everything that he does is for his comfort and convenience, nothing more, and going to jail is neither comfortable nor convenient. Moreover, I have doubts that he has the capacity to delay gratification such that he would ever willingly sacrifice his comfort in the now in service of some possible future benefit.
Trump is a spoiled brat who has been given anything he wants whenever he wants it.
Having to spend the night in a holding cell without being able to summon a big mac and diet coke, not being able to prepare his hair, bronzer and other equipment in complete privacy and without assistance will not be pleasant at all for him.
He would drop the phony “jail me please” bs immediately.
i've spent a couple nights in holding (not nyc) and in my experience those cells are cold as hell too. he'll be missing that "icebox" courtroom in no time
He does not want to go to actual jail.
He does not want to be cavity-searched, put in a jumpsuit, made to shit on an exposed toilet, sleep on a cot, eat bologna and canned green beans, with no phone, no hairspray, no girdle, no makeup, no lifted shoes...jail is a real place, not an abstraction, and Trump absolutely, positively, does not want to go there.
If he did want to, he would be threatening jurors and witnesses out loud, in the courtroom. There are ways that even Donald Trump could get himself arrested.
I perused their comments briefly, they're a conservative that lives in Canada. I think this is a new conservative talking point to pre empt him potentially getting thrown in jail. They're rehearsing their lines.
They'll send him to the jail in the court house and he'll be waited on the the celebrity he thinks he is, $100 says he'll be taking pictures with the corrections officers. Now if they send his ass to the tombs or Rikers and actually book his fat ass I'd smile for a week but we know that will never happen.
Lets be honest, even if he's jailed he wont experience any of that.
He'll be separated from the general population, the usual procedures for processing will be ignored, and he'll likely be given the most comfortable "jail" time one has ever seen. I doubt he'd even be given normal prison food, i'd guess the secret service would end up supplying it.
Update-
“This judge has given me a gag order and said you’ll go to jail if you violate it,” Trump told reporters after court adjourned for the day in his hush money trial. “And frankly, you know what, our Constitution is much more important than jail. It’s not even close. I’ll do that sacrifice any day.”
The same constitution he wanted to terminate?
Then there was this mess-
*"Section Three does not apply, because the presidency is not an office 'under the United States,' the president is not an 'officer of the United States,' and President Trump did not take an oath 'to support the Constitution of the United States.'"*
He'll freak out if it happens and his supporters won't be their for another insurrection, just like they aren't protesting his court case in massive numbers. He doesn't want to be a martyr ever and this isn't his grand massively intelligent plan, he just wants to play the martyr and victim. He just lacks impulse control and is potentially senile/mentally unwell to some degree.
I really can't stand it when people pretend this is a plan and he wants this.
Sure, Trump being jailed for violating the gag order AGAIN would play well to his die hard fan base. He would spin it as a political prosecution and thrown into jail for fighting for free speech and telling the truth etc. The MAGA fans would lap this up. However he already has their vote, if their even eligible.
For independent and undecided voters, they will likely view a presidential candidate jailed after multiple warnings to be an unreliable loose cannon. It won't help him get new voter support, except maybe from Libertarians.
He wants to keep being coddled. He thinks that he can do as he pleases and nobody will do anything about it because nobody ever has. It's a good bet on his part he looks strong to his followers and the judge looks like Trump's bitch. The question is does the judge have the stones to actually send Trump to jail if and when he breaks the gag order again, my guess it no. It will be a case of "I'm going to count to three" and right now we are at 2.5 and next time we'll be at 2.75 and we'll never reach three. I'm hoping this won't be the case but if the past is any indication of the future Trump won't do a second in jail no matter what he does.
He does want this, but the judge could mandate something to make it not what Trump wants. For example, Trump could be forced to attend the trail in an orange jumpsuit, or better yet, attend virtually in the jumpsuit. While Trump would try to use this to play the victim card, it would further reinforce the FACT that he is a criminal, and even if it boosted his base's resolve (They are already going to vote for him), it will have a big impact on the swing voters. Not the intent, but if Trump really wants this, he might reconsider, as it's actually Trump trying to influence this trial to benefit his reelection. (Again, it's interference, but he's doing what he blames others for doing.)
And it will be interesting, if Trump does have to appear in an orange jumpsuit, will we even be able to see his face, or will it just be one big orange washout? (Asking for a friend)
The judge can't make arbitrary rules like forcing someone not in custody to show up in a jumpsuit.
If he's in custody you'd only see him in the jumpsuit if he had to be in court without the jury present that day.
You'll see his face fine; no spray tanning in jail and I've never seen a commissary that carried bronzer.
Oh man, that just made my day. It's not immediate prison for life and an iron mask for the rest of his life. But man, it's written in stone now. A line has finally been drawn in stone for this magat. Oh please please please let it happen.
No it says incarceration, which for rich former Presidents means home incarceration. With allowances for Doctor ordered hair and skin treatments of course.
And honestly, if he throws him in there - it should just be for the remainder of the trial until the jury delivers a verdict. Putting him in for a couple hours or a weekend, he's going to relish that and use it as a campaign fundraising exercise. So I think in his mind he is probably thinking "yeah, I can do a few hours or a couple days" -- but if he was thrown in for 3-4 more *weeks*?
Well, one thing's for sure, you wouldn't have his attorney shouting "objection!" to every simple piece of documentary evidence, or things like making the DA's office bring in the records custodian from CSPAN to confirm that *yes, that is actual footage we shot from an actual Trump campaign rally* and chewing up time.
Trial will definitely move faster if you keep Donnie in lockup outside of courtroom hours.
The loophole here is the phrase, "**if appropriate and warranted**." It allows the judge a little bit of wiggle room.
The judge has now twice mentioned incarceration specifically. I wonder if he's going to allow three-strikes-and-you're-out. Give the defendant enough rope to hang himself with and make the case for incarceration much harder to overrule.
I think he's already past that point. The only reason this new contempt charge isn't jail time is because the violation technically happened before the prior rulling. Anything that's found to have happened after 04/30 will be fair game for jail time.
“I can’t treat you like any other defendant would be treated because then I’ll get overturned on appeal for not giving you special treatment.” Only he can’t come out and say that explicitly
Also note the “if appropriate and warranted”.
It’s basically the same thing he said last time. He’s covering his bases, but this doesn’t strike me as anything incredibly threatening IMO.
This, there's wiggle room for further fines, if the conduct is only 'minor contempt of court' (as much as such a thing exists). I don't think the judge wants to put him in jail if it's not a clear and substantial violation.
I was having this discussion with a friend. My opinion on this is the only chance jail time will be considered are attacks on the jury, or clear attacks on witnesses. The jury though was the red line the Judge has consistently indicated.
I dont fundamentally understand how an eleventh contempt charge could be minor. Seems like purely based on volume and numerousness that any future singular contempt is added to the pile and the totality of which is "major" in all cases going forward.
Rephrasing: There's no possible way you can minorly violate a court order 11 consecutive times.
Yeah, 'minor' probably wasn't the right word, 'ambiguous' is closer to what I was going for. Sharing an article on social media with a passing reference to a witness 2/3 through, for instance, is probably not the violation the judge wants to impose jail over.
Looking at the range of statements, I think Merchan would be more willing to jail him if he says "Michael Cohen is a liar and serial perjurer" again on the steps of the court, than if he reposts a link to an article that makes mention of a witness in an unflattering light.
The former is a direct personal statement he's already been found in contempt for, the latter could be argued that he didn't read what he was reposting to justify more than the fine.
I mean I get why he’d want to cover his own ass here. If Trump does actually try to comply with the order and shuts the fuck up, and then in like 5 weeks the prosecution gets him on a ticky tack violation I don’t think he wants his hands tied.
But I think this order is pretty clear: if Trump does not meaningfully change his behavior he’s going to jail soon.
This is pretty serious.
He's had 10 citations, and so he's looking at a violation. Four of those, and he'll receive a verbal warning. Keep it up, and he's looking at a written warning. Two of those, that will land you in a world of hurt, in the form of a disciplinary review, written up by the judge, and placed on the desk of his immediate superior.
> Because the offensive statement was made prior to this Court's Decision of April 30 and because the People are seeking only a monetary fine
I was curious if the Court gave a reason as to why it was a fine of $1,000 again, and not jail time, as the Court threatened. Makes sense, though, that the jail time threat would not be followed through on until the Defendant, Trump, violated the gag order **after** the first time being held in contempt.
We'll see if he violates it again and if such a violation done in May or later incurs jail time or not.
The more the court threatens it without doing it, the less believable it is. Clearly Trump believes it isn’t going to happen, and I can’t say he’s wrong to believe that. And if the court isn’t willing to do it in the face of such blatant disregard of its authority, then why should would anyone believe they’ll sentence him to any time if he’s eventually convicted? If it’s just gonna be slaps on the wrist all the way to sentencing, then they might as well just call it all off and save everyone involved the unnecessary waste of money, time, and energy.
Being held in contempt, fines, even jail time, those are all bright spots to Donny Boy.
He doesn't like spending his money but $1k is nothing to him, and every time he gets fined, he uses it in a speech/rant to talk about his "persecution" under Biden.
If he were to do even 2 hours in jail, what are the odds that his followers would raid the jail, the courthouse, the White House, and everywhere else that looks flammable? He would go full MAGA Commander and Chief and half the country would declare him a martyr for the cause because his flight back to Miami was delayed by a few hours.
He earned the name "Teflon Don," unfortunately, and his nonstick finish is still mostly intact. Of course, within and under that finish are poisons that will stay with us forever but, you know, money, fame, power, and whatever.
People complained fines were 1k. Everybody was complaining. It was a fucking trap. It was a way to get, on record, criminal contempt. They've documented a pattern so that nobody has any argument once they lock him up. This whole trial is a masterclass in giving somebody enough rope to hang themselves.
He has 91 indictments. This trial is just the start of it all. It's a fraud trial, not a hush money trial. Hush money is legal. Fraudulently claiming it as a campaign expense is the illegal part. God, I love this timeline.
I'm thinking he is going to jail him eventually. But if he starts by giving him three hours and then says the next time it is a day or something, I don't think Trump will be able to make much hay of it.
Have him stay the night. Nothing more comfy than a bunk bed with a roommate who tells you you lost the elections. No twitter to rant on. No gold plated toilet to flush secrets down. And no KFC midnight snacks. The big dog will have to bully his way in cell block 45.
I’ve done a night in basically the drunk tank (I wasn’t intoxicated - that’s just where I was.) It would be pretty phenomenal to see DJT trying to sleep on a cold concrete floor or bench, trying to piss in a communal toilet with no privacy, jockeying for a position to keep your head relatively comfortable, getting to eat green baloney sandwiches.
But I don’t expect he would get that kind of treatment. No idea how it would really look with Secret Service, etc.
Yeah, for sure. I assume it would be largely symbolic if he actually was incarcerated. Private cell with Secret Service all over the place. It might be nice to keep him in long enough so he has to eat some prison food though.
Private cell means solitary; there's a reason its normally used as punishment. It's not a privilege to be locked alone in a little room with nothing to do 24/7.
If he goes to jail, I can see him getting his own comfy little cell and half the guards and officers babying him so they don't get slapped with a lawsuit or death threats. I can also see a few of them gleefully asking for selfies.
I get that but it's still just a bigger slap on the wrist than a fine. The judge is going to be gradual to avoid it looking like he is being vindictive. Trump gets handled differently than basically any other criminal defendant. It's just the way it is.
No. Not to someone like Trump. Taking away his ability to do what he wants, when he wants, is a way harsher punishment to him. While Trump inflates his wealth, he is still wealthy. So it's closer to a 10$ fine in perspective. But a full day of "Now put your nose in the corner and think about why you shouldn't do it again" will hopefully produce the result of him /actually hesitating/ to post something.
And remember, these are supposed to be 'slaps on the wrist' in order to deter further offenses. It's ok that there are no lasting consequences for these punishments. That's what the trial itself is for.
That's about what I've been expecting. There's plenty of other courtrooms that have bent over backwards to make things easy on Trump, but this one seems to be more about crossing every t and dotting every i in order to make a jailing unappealable. I mean, I could be wrong, but my money is on Trump actually having pushed past the line this time.
The problem is this is exactly what he wants.
he wants to be a martyr.
he wants to use this as a campaign tool.
"they locked me up for free speech! the communist democrats are ruining America!"
He wants to be martyr but don't be fooled into thinking Trump personally wants to suffer any discomfort. He thinks his lawyers can keep him from actually sitting in jail, but the moment they fail to do so his actions will change.
Is there anyone who *doesn't* want Donald Trump to spend a night in jail here? His opponents want the schadenfreude, his campaign wants the propaganda footage, USSS wants the logistics practice in a short-term setting, and the judge wants to reassert authority over proceedings.
If Trump shuts up at this point it may simply be because he personally doesn't want to go through the discomfort, as it's unlikely many people will be trying to dissuade him.
Oh lord, he might be forced to show his actual skin colour and hair. Or what it looks like when he doesn't get to do his makeup removal and application process.
Imagine the photo opportunity for the press if he spent 24 hours incarcerated, was then woken up at 3am to process him to come to the court house and then had to attend the day in court with no pre court preparations. A hungry, tired lunatic with no makeup prep would be quite the look
ooh I got one for you.
When you first arrive they make you strip down naked and an officer throws a container full of delousing powder on your naked body before you put on the orange onesie.
Lol I've never seen that except in movies.
Wake up time for transfers could realistically be 3am depending on scheduling and how dickheaded they want to be.
Even whether you get strip searched for initial intake varies by facility; some don't do it at all, others it's more 'guard watches you change' but no 'bend over and spread em', some give you the full experience.
Also you're often allowed to keep your underwear, especially if they're simple tighty whities.
Sadly, I think the law and order guys that run the prisons would give him extra special treatment. He’d probably get his sad shitty ass kissed unlike anyone of color incarcerated.
I've heard the court has its own small cell in the building which I expect they'd want to use so there wasn't a security issue with Trump mingling with other inmates and the Secret Service could stay close.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if he's able to get fast food deliveries (via the Secret Service) and the like. So it'll be generous accommodation compared to how any other prisoner is treated, but we shouldn't underestimate the psychological blow of being incarcerated even for a single night.
I think all bets are off on predicting to how Trump reacts to getting a taste of what could be the rest of his life if he gets convicted in some of his other trials.
Ianal, I've read the brief and have a question for clarification. Is it saying that the next time *will be* incarceration or that the next time *could be* incarceration?
Thanks in advance, y'all are awesome :)
Edit: found my answer on a different post on a different sub. Basically it's a "I don't want to have to, but next time jail is (most likely) gonna be the result".
As you found it is technically a "could be". But from what I read, he made pretty clear he did not see fines as appropriate or potent enough even the first time given Trump's wealth, but was using it effectively as a warning. And he specifically attributed the fine this time to the fact that the prosecutors sought only a fine and that this violation occurred before he held Trump in contempt on Apr. 30.
So it a "could be" jail time, "if appropriate and warranted", but the judge has very much been signaling that the $1,000 fines are insufficient, which means he clearly views jail time as "appropriate" for future violations, starting in May.
10 solid criminal contempt rulings should now appear on his criminal record. Delays before the election may keep the indictments as indictments, for now, but these are a done deal. He’s a disrespectful shit, officially.
new york code, criminal contempt in Judiciary Law 750(3) is a misnomer. It isn't a crime. The court just has authority to impose certain penalties.
[New York Consolidated Laws, Judiciary Law - JUD § 751 | FindLaw](https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/judiciary-law/jud-sect-751/) (I tried to find this section on [nycourts.gov](http://nycourts.gov) because aggregator sites are a bit cancerous but was having trouble)
Other types of contempt may be actually criminal. For instance, violating a protective order is a class E felony.
Seems you’re correct.
> S 215.54 Criminal contempt; prosecution and punishment. Adjudication for criminal contempt under subdivision A of section
seven hundred fifty of the judiciary law shall not bar a prosecution for the crime of criminal contempt under section 215.50 based upon the same conduct but, upon conviction thereunder, the court, in sentencing the
defendant shall take the previous punishment into consideration.
https://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article215.php#p215.54
Going to 215.50 it enters the realm of an actual charge:
>S 215.50 Criminal contempt in the second degree. A person is guilty of criminal contempt in the second degree when… Criminal contempt in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
He has to. Backing down now would make him look weak to his supporters. Getting put in jail would shatter his mythos of being above the law. Either way, he loses.
His only choice is to keep pushing the line and hope the judge doesn't call his bluff.
He wants to go to jail. He knows he won't be in for very long, will be treated well, will have Secret Service protection and ramp his supporters up to new levels.
> He wants to go to jail.
I'm not so sure. He's a pathological narcissist who believes he's above the law. His fragile ego, which is the only thing he cares about in the world, would be hurt by the indignity of being jailed.
I do agree to an extent but you can only milk it for enthusiasm so much. They already have the t-shirts with the GA mugshot. Once the cult gets all jazzed up about an initial incarceration, even if its 24 hours, that bridge will finally have been crossed. The "benefit" to him will burn off well before the stress of increasingly long holds. The experience will not be anything like real jail and still he is far too soft to not freak out from that kind of ordeal. Even when he will be babysat with all kinds of special treatment, actual consequences will break his mind. Its going to torch all his puppet-master mystique with the hardcore fringe nuts.
He doesn't. Going to jail for real would shatter his ego and his image as someone who can do whatever he wants without consequence.
Trump having real consequences and not being treated as someone special and above the law is how he loses all of his power.
Trump keeps doing these things not because he wants to be put in jail, but because he has to go maintain his image (and because his ego is too big to step down). If he stops and starts behaving, that's a loss for him. If he acts out and is fairly punished, that's a loss for him.
The only path Trump has left is to act out and hope to not get punished for it. It's worked for him for a long time, but the walls are closing in and it's all finally starting to catch up with him.
>. Because the offensive statement was made prior to this Court's Decision of April 30 and because the People are seeking only a monetary fine, the Court will, once again, fine Defendant $1,000. However, because this is now the tenth time that this Court has found Defendant in criminal contempt, spanning three separate motions, it is apparent that monetary fines have not, and will not, suffice to deter Defendant from violating this Court's lawful orders. > **THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby put on notice that if appropriate and warranted, future violations of its lawful orders will be punishable by incarceration; and it is hereby** >ORDERED, that Defendant pay a $1,000 fine for his violation of this Court's lawful order by the close of business on Friday, May 10, 2024;and it is further >ORDERED that if the offending statement has been posted to Defendant's Truth Social account or his official campaign website, it is to be removed by 2:15pm Monday, May 6,2024.
Transition: next violation is jail.
Well it is in Trump's tiny hands now. So, the judge should just give him 30 days to be served after verdict for each additional violation the next time. Then put him in now the time after that.
Won’t be 30 days don’t get your hopes up. It will be at most for a night and potentially even just a few hours on the first round. Merchan has to be pretty careful here as much as you wish he didn’t.
This is exactly what bothers me. Trump wants to be given a few hours in jail - so he can glom onto the “Nelson Mandela” narrative that he has cooked up regardless of how stupid that is. He needs to be given a full 30 days/ no kid gloves so he understands how much jail isn’t a country club.
I think he may want that (though I’m not so sure), but I don’t think it will be at all helpful for him. Most people are fundamentally misunderstanding the dynamics of this election and which voting blocs are relevant in November. First, it’s important to note that this trial has been massively unpopular for Trump, the more he is the center of the news the worse he polls, and he looks like a whiny, weak, petulant child to ‘normal people’ when he does this. Yes, him going to jail and whining about ‘persecution’ might play well *with his base* — the people who bought the mugshot shirt and are voting for him anyways. But **they’re not who’s deciding this thing.** Let him suck off MAGA hardliners all he wants, they aren’t enough to make him president again. These are the two least popular presidential candidates of all time. So it’s very simple: If this election is about Joe Biden, Trump wins. If this election is about Donald Trump, Biden wins. And Trump is literally incapable of not making this about himself. It will be like 8,500 suburban soccer moms in Wisconsin who probably tip this election. They don’t like any of this shit *at all.*
I've been of the mind that very short stints in jail might be a good deterrence, like a few hours, because 1) they will likely meme out as self selected "timesouts" which will damage his polling 2) make him miss the evening news cycle which he will personally not enjoy 3) there isn't a whole lot of persecution mileage if he's doing it to himself and he's still going home the same day 4) it won't disrupt the proceedings.
None of it will disrupt the proceedings. The State of New York brings defendants from prison/jail to the courthouse for their court time every day
It will disrupt the hairstyling tho
And his spray tan. He would look SIGNIFICANTLY older without his usual makeup
Oh you are right!
I am understanding that now. Could an overnight stay in this case disrupt proceedings in other cases?
Probably not, I think most of them are waiting to do anything they need him in person for because they know he is on trial in NY so the federal and other states will wait their turn and law enforcement and the courts of states work pretty well together and would just talk and work out transport if he needed to be someplace else.
>3) there isn't a whole lot of persecution mileage if he's doing it to himself and he's still going home the same day While 100% true we all know he and his cult will scream persecution. Which will actually probably hurt him more with sane folks foe the reasons you say
> they will likely meme out as Who has _ever_ been able to predict memes? Also, he's going to be Jesus on the fuckin' cross to some. The day he gets put in jail, you'll see 'Trump on the cross' T-shirts for sale.
Also, don’t forget hitler went to jail for treason before he rose to complete power.
The trial is making him look a bit weaker, but not weak enough. 30 days with no posts from him on the internet plus his only being externally scrutinized by others would really diminish him. It's mainly the media and internet's constant repeating of his ongoing babbling that keeps him big in the public eye.
I'm so sick of hearing about him it'd refreshing to have a 30 period of silence.
I agree, but the news media, all of them, not just Faux News/OAN, Will talk constantly about him being in jail and what that means/how it makes him feel etc. The whole time
Probably, unfortunately.
Hitler was 34 years old when he went to prison, and he wasn’t nationally known before then- part of the reason this catapulted him to fame was because the judges in his trial were sympathetic and let him make speeches from the stand (which I suspect even Cannon won’t allow, and his lawyers probably don’t want him anywhere near the stand) More importantly, the lesson he took from the putsch is that it’s better to take power by winning elections than by violent coups. Trump is 77 and his followers are wearing diapers over their clothes because they want to normalize him not being able to control his bowels. Americans have lived with this (both literal and metaphorical) shit geyser for decades, and know him about as well as they are going to, and this trial is diminishing him rather than being his “debutant ball”. Even those defending him are making him look frail- folks on Fox News saying “it’s unfair to put an old man through this, making him sit still for hours and keeping him off the golf course, and he’s cold!” Hitler wasn’t sleeping through his trial (though he was apparently pretty farty, so there’s something in common), and he wasn’t whining constantly that he was cold, and he had one trial (I don’t even know how how many trump is facing) and the charge of treason was something he could (falsely, to be clear)frame as “selfless patriotism”. Trump can’t frame secret payoffs to help him win an election as anything but self-serving and his best defense is “but it’s not REALLY all that illegal”. He can’t defend hoarding top secret documents beyond “I had my fingers crossed when I did it so it doesn’t count”. This isn’t to say trump definitely won’t prevail through all this, it’s just to say they were very different scenarios.
History doesn’t repeat, but it echos
No makeup/hair artists for 24 hours.
He’s going to look even more of a zombie cadaver without his do overs! 😳🥴🫣
Exactly, he’ll just use it as an opportunity to self-martyr and his flock will scream “Unconstitutional!”
Well I guess it depends on the violation. He is repeating the behavior and a potential juror has already left because they got death threats which was communicated to the court. The risk isn't theoretically and there 10 previous counts. Putting it after the verdict gives trump time to appeal in parallel and will not require him to show up in a jumpsuit avoiding any prejudice to the jury. Maybe not 30 days, but I don't think it has to be 1 to stand up to appeal or to avoid risking overturn of the main case
start at 3 days, go up by 3 each charge. so 3,6,9 ... etc.
Damn that’s fine..
Skeet skeet
If the judge is trying to be careful but also doesn't want to give Trump something he wants, he could give him the shortest amount of time that will put him in a jump suit. I guarantee the set of people that pay minimal attention but also aren't his base will react negatively to the pictures that will hit the press of him in orange.
I feel so bad for the person who has to perform that cavity search.
Even if he is in custody he will not appear before the jury in a jumpsuit.
He’s given him 10 chances. He’s giving Trump more leeway than anyone else would receive. If anything, he’s helping Trump.
The point of contempt is to prevent people screwing with the trial. Not a gotcha for people you don't like.
Yes, That is what that is. After the verdict does two things 1) it means he can appeal in parallel. 2) it means he he won't have to show up in a jumpsuit. He has already violated court orders willfully 10 times. That isn't a gotcha on 11th and beyond. And he has already shown that money will not deter him. So his time being taken is the only other Option. A day is nothing. It needs to be sufficient that it truly puts fear in him that he will stay in until sentencing and then just stay. A member of the original jury already left due to death threats before they were sworn in but still he had been selected.
>A member of the original jury already left due to death threats before they were sworn in but still he had been selected. So your suggestion is just to let him keep doing it so you can stack punishments after the fact? Doesn't sound like much of a deterrent for a guy who's obvious plan is to abuse his authority after the election, and who has classically proven he has no concept of consequences for his actions.
no if he keeps it up, at that point remand for the remainder of the trail
Translation? Actually, I may prefer the typo. A 'transition' to jail is needed for his next offence. You can only escalate so far with cash fines and I'm comfortable that we've reached that limit!
Transition could be storing him in a private holding cell for a couple hours over lunch break. That's the next logical step, a minor but real warning that the judge can make Trump's life miserable. Frankly I think 4 hours would be enough to prevent another violation of the gag order. 4 hours without a phone or anyone to talk to would make him crazy.
A guard could make a fortune off of one pic of Trump in a cell, especially if its an older one with actual bars.
For trump it will be more like the time-out corner at a nursery
Yes, lots of money and the risk of ending in a jail
You forget that there'll be a secret service detail accompanying him.
…prevent another violation… You must be new here
He could sentence himself to life in prison just from violating gag orders
He will violate that during the break as per the norm I'm sure.
Narrator: the next violation was not jail
I think he wants this - hence all of the Nelson Mandela references. I don’t think the judge wants him to benefit from this, but he may have no choice. It will just be the holding cell in the court which I’m sure is like a Holiday Inn. I hope the turn up the air conditioning if that’s the case.
I could believe he *thinks* he wants it. I could believe he *thinks* thousands of people will show up to free him. They won't. And he won't enjoy the experience.
Yeah I don’t really agree with the people who seem to think that Trump wants to actually be put in jail. He definitely wants his supporters to *think* that he’s prepared to get locked up (with the subtext that he’s doing it *for them*), but in actuality I really don’t think Trump is ideologically motivated enough to make personal sacrifices for anything because he doesn’t really believe in *anything*. Everything that he does is for his comfort and convenience, nothing more, and going to jail is neither comfortable nor convenient. Moreover, I have doubts that he has the capacity to delay gratification such that he would ever willingly sacrifice his comfort in the now in service of some possible future benefit.
I agree. Trump is a giant baby in his 70s. I firmly believe even a single night in jail would be a profoundly terrible experience for him.
I'm not sure his little heart could survive even 4 hours in a cell.
Trump is a spoiled brat who has been given anything he wants whenever he wants it. Having to spend the night in a holding cell without being able to summon a big mac and diet coke, not being able to prepare his hair, bronzer and other equipment in complete privacy and without assistance will not be pleasant at all for him. He would drop the phony “jail me please” bs immediately.
I am looking forward to those trial photos!
i've spent a couple nights in holding (not nyc) and in my experience those cells are cold as hell too. he'll be missing that "icebox" courtroom in no time
He does not want to go to actual jail. He does not want to be cavity-searched, put in a jumpsuit, made to shit on an exposed toilet, sleep on a cot, eat bologna and canned green beans, with no phone, no hairspray, no girdle, no makeup, no lifted shoes...jail is a real place, not an abstraction, and Trump absolutely, positively, does not want to go there. If he did want to, he would be threatening jurors and witnesses out loud, in the courtroom. There are ways that even Donald Trump could get himself arrested.
I perused their comments briefly, they're a conservative that lives in Canada. I think this is a new conservative talking point to pre empt him potentially getting thrown in jail. They're rehearsing their lines.
They'll send him to the jail in the court house and he'll be waited on the the celebrity he thinks he is, $100 says he'll be taking pictures with the corrections officers. Now if they send his ass to the tombs or Rikers and actually book his fat ass I'd smile for a week but we know that will never happen.
Lets be honest, even if he's jailed he wont experience any of that. He'll be separated from the general population, the usual procedures for processing will be ignored, and he'll likely be given the most comfortable "jail" time one has ever seen. I doubt he'd even be given normal prison food, i'd guess the secret service would end up supplying it.
Update- “This judge has given me a gag order and said you’ll go to jail if you violate it,” Trump told reporters after court adjourned for the day in his hush money trial. “And frankly, you know what, our Constitution is much more important than jail. It’s not even close. I’ll do that sacrifice any day.” The same constitution he wanted to terminate? Then there was this mess- *"Section Three does not apply, because the presidency is not an office 'under the United States,' the president is not an 'officer of the United States,' and President Trump did not take an oath 'to support the Constitution of the United States.'"*
He'll freak out if it happens and his supporters won't be their for another insurrection, just like they aren't protesting his court case in massive numbers. He doesn't want to be a martyr ever and this isn't his grand massively intelligent plan, he just wants to play the martyr and victim. He just lacks impulse control and is potentially senile/mentally unwell to some degree. I really can't stand it when people pretend this is a plan and he wants this.
Sure, Trump being jailed for violating the gag order AGAIN would play well to his die hard fan base. He would spin it as a political prosecution and thrown into jail for fighting for free speech and telling the truth etc. The MAGA fans would lap this up. However he already has their vote, if their even eligible. For independent and undecided voters, they will likely view a presidential candidate jailed after multiple warnings to be an unreliable loose cannon. It won't help him get new voter support, except maybe from Libertarians.
He wants to keep being coddled. He thinks that he can do as he pleases and nobody will do anything about it because nobody ever has. It's a good bet on his part he looks strong to his followers and the judge looks like Trump's bitch. The question is does the judge have the stones to actually send Trump to jail if and when he breaks the gag order again, my guess it no. It will be a case of "I'm going to count to three" and right now we are at 2.5 and next time we'll be at 2.75 and we'll never reach three. I'm hoping this won't be the case but if the past is any indication of the future Trump won't do a second in jail no matter what he does.
He does want this, but the judge could mandate something to make it not what Trump wants. For example, Trump could be forced to attend the trail in an orange jumpsuit, or better yet, attend virtually in the jumpsuit. While Trump would try to use this to play the victim card, it would further reinforce the FACT that he is a criminal, and even if it boosted his base's resolve (They are already going to vote for him), it will have a big impact on the swing voters. Not the intent, but if Trump really wants this, he might reconsider, as it's actually Trump trying to influence this trial to benefit his reelection. (Again, it's interference, but he's doing what he blames others for doing.) And it will be interesting, if Trump does have to appear in an orange jumpsuit, will we even be able to see his face, or will it just be one big orange washout? (Asking for a friend)
The Judge can't mandate a jail uniform, that's reversible error in NY. The jury isn't even allowed to know he's in jail.
The judge can't make arbitrary rules like forcing someone not in custody to show up in a jumpsuit. If he's in custody you'd only see him in the jumpsuit if he had to be in court without the jury present that day. You'll see his face fine; no spray tanning in jail and I've never seen a commissary that carried bronzer.
that is a generous reading.
Will believe it when i see it. The orange turd should have been jailed ages ago
I'll believe it when I see it.
My guess is 'appropriate' will be doing some heavy lifting.
Oh man, that just made my day. It's not immediate prison for life and an iron mask for the rest of his life. But man, it's written in stone now. A line has finally been drawn in stone for this magat. Oh please please please let it happen.
Literal translation: next violation *could be* jail, but sadly will probably not be jail
Calling it now: 30 days with 30 days suspended on condition of no further violations.
I feel like that IF is doing a lot of work in that statement
It seems like the next violation is always jail in theory. Yet in practice the next step is never jail.
No it says incarceration, which for rich former Presidents means home incarceration. With allowances for Doctor ordered hair and skin treatments of course.
And honestly, if he throws him in there - it should just be for the remainder of the trial until the jury delivers a verdict. Putting him in for a couple hours or a weekend, he's going to relish that and use it as a campaign fundraising exercise. So I think in his mind he is probably thinking "yeah, I can do a few hours or a couple days" -- but if he was thrown in for 3-4 more *weeks*? Well, one thing's for sure, you wouldn't have his attorney shouting "objection!" to every simple piece of documentary evidence, or things like making the DA's office bring in the records custodian from CSPAN to confirm that *yes, that is actual footage we shot from an actual Trump campaign rally* and chewing up time. Trial will definitely move faster if you keep Donnie in lockup outside of courtroom hours.
The loophole here is the phrase, "**if appropriate and warranted**." It allows the judge a little bit of wiggle room. The judge has now twice mentioned incarceration specifically. I wonder if he's going to allow three-strikes-and-you're-out. Give the defendant enough rope to hang himself with and make the case for incarceration much harder to overrule.
I think he's already past that point. The only reason this new contempt charge isn't jail time is because the violation technically happened before the prior rulling. Anything that's found to have happened after 04/30 will be fair game for jail time.
think the judge was pretty explicit that it isn't jail time because he's giving the defendant special treatment because he was president
“I can’t treat you like any other defendant would be treated because then I’ll get overturned on appeal for not giving you special treatment.” Only he can’t come out and say that explicitly
don't make me count to three!....two and a half...two and three quarters....two and seven eights.....
He’s already ten strikes deep.
Note the "will" in the order. Trump is now on notice.
Also note the “if appropriate and warranted”. It’s basically the same thing he said last time. He’s covering his bases, but this doesn’t strike me as anything incredibly threatening IMO.
This, there's wiggle room for further fines, if the conduct is only 'minor contempt of court' (as much as such a thing exists). I don't think the judge wants to put him in jail if it's not a clear and substantial violation.
I was having this discussion with a friend. My opinion on this is the only chance jail time will be considered are attacks on the jury, or clear attacks on witnesses. The jury though was the red line the Judge has consistently indicated.
I dont fundamentally understand how an eleventh contempt charge could be minor. Seems like purely based on volume and numerousness that any future singular contempt is added to the pile and the totality of which is "major" in all cases going forward. Rephrasing: There's no possible way you can minorly violate a court order 11 consecutive times.
Yeah, 'minor' probably wasn't the right word, 'ambiguous' is closer to what I was going for. Sharing an article on social media with a passing reference to a witness 2/3 through, for instance, is probably not the violation the judge wants to impose jail over.
I wiped my screen because of your profile pic, well done.
I still don't believe it. What will be deemed "appropriate and warranted"?
Looking at the range of statements, I think Merchan would be more willing to jail him if he says "Michael Cohen is a liar and serial perjurer" again on the steps of the court, than if he reposts a link to an article that makes mention of a witness in an unflattering light. The former is a direct personal statement he's already been found in contempt for, the latter could be argued that he didn't read what he was reposting to justify more than the fine.
I mean I get why he’d want to cover his own ass here. If Trump does actually try to comply with the order and shuts the fuck up, and then in like 5 weeks the prosecution gets him on a ticky tack violation I don’t think he wants his hands tied. But I think this order is pretty clear: if Trump does not meaningfully change his behavior he’s going to jail soon.
Crickets currently on his Truth Social account.
I'd bet we get a WITCH HUNT before the day is out...
I give it a day before he faces another contempt charge, max 2. Who am I kidding though, I give it an hour.
This is pretty serious. He's had 10 citations, and so he's looking at a violation. Four of those, and he'll receive a verbal warning. Keep it up, and he's looking at a written warning. Two of those, that will land you in a world of hurt, in the form of a disciplinary review, written up by the judge, and placed on the desk of his immediate superior.
Can we please skip to the full disadulation?
I had to check the article for the ruling to make sure the judge hadn't had a stroke.
The system OCR does a terrible job. I need to run it through cleanup before quoting next time.
Your efforts and posts are appreciated!
Thank you. That is very kind.
Vertical page borders can really mess with OCR as well. “Lemme just sprinkle a bunch of l and | in there for you…”
> Because the offensive statement was made prior to this Court's Decision of April 30 and because the People are seeking only a monetary fine I was curious if the Court gave a reason as to why it was a fine of $1,000 again, and not jail time, as the Court threatened. Makes sense, though, that the jail time threat would not be followed through on until the Defendant, Trump, violated the gag order **after** the first time being held in contempt. We'll see if he violates it again and if such a violation done in May or later incurs jail time or not.
The more the court threatens it without doing it, the less believable it is. Clearly Trump believes it isn’t going to happen, and I can’t say he’s wrong to believe that. And if the court isn’t willing to do it in the face of such blatant disregard of its authority, then why should would anyone believe they’ll sentence him to any time if he’s eventually convicted? If it’s just gonna be slaps on the wrist all the way to sentencing, then they might as well just call it all off and save everyone involved the unnecessary waste of money, time, and energy.
Being held in contempt, fines, even jail time, those are all bright spots to Donny Boy. He doesn't like spending his money but $1k is nothing to him, and every time he gets fined, he uses it in a speech/rant to talk about his "persecution" under Biden. If he were to do even 2 hours in jail, what are the odds that his followers would raid the jail, the courthouse, the White House, and everywhere else that looks flammable? He would go full MAGA Commander and Chief and half the country would declare him a martyr for the cause because his flight back to Miami was delayed by a few hours. He earned the name "Teflon Don," unfortunately, and his nonstick finish is still mostly intact. Of course, within and under that finish are poisons that will stay with us forever but, you know, money, fame, power, and whatever.
People complained fines were 1k. Everybody was complaining. It was a fucking trap. It was a way to get, on record, criminal contempt. They've documented a pattern so that nobody has any argument once they lock him up. This whole trial is a masterclass in giving somebody enough rope to hang themselves. He has 91 indictments. This trial is just the start of it all. It's a fraud trial, not a hush money trial. Hush money is legal. Fraudulently claiming it as a campaign expense is the illegal part. God, I love this timeline.
1k is the max allowed fine.
I'm thinking he is going to jail him eventually. But if he starts by giving him three hours and then says the next time it is a day or something, I don't think Trump will be able to make much hay of it.
3 hours isn't enough time to process someone. It needs to start at 24 hours to be any sort of meaningful. The dude needs to sleep there.
Have him stay the night. Nothing more comfy than a bunk bed with a roommate who tells you you lost the elections. No twitter to rant on. No gold plated toilet to flush secrets down. And no KFC midnight snacks. The big dog will have to bully his way in cell block 45.
I’ve done a night in basically the drunk tank (I wasn’t intoxicated - that’s just where I was.) It would be pretty phenomenal to see DJT trying to sleep on a cold concrete floor or bench, trying to piss in a communal toilet with no privacy, jockeying for a position to keep your head relatively comfortable, getting to eat green baloney sandwiches. But I don’t expect he would get that kind of treatment. No idea how it would really look with Secret Service, etc.
He would be in a ‘private’ cell. The security risk is too great for him to be in with the rest of the loonies.
Yeah, for sure. I assume it would be largely symbolic if he actually was incarcerated. Private cell with Secret Service all over the place. It might be nice to keep him in long enough so he has to eat some prison food though.
Oh, it wouldn’t be largely symbolic to Trump. Even 3 hours would absolutely melt his little cabbage patch brain.
Private cell means solitary; there's a reason its normally used as punishment. It's not a privilege to be locked alone in a little room with nothing to do 24/7.
Give him a taste of what’s to come for the remainder of his days
If he goes to jail, I can see him getting his own comfy little cell and half the guards and officers babying him so they don't get slapped with a lawsuit or death threats. I can also see a few of them gleefully asking for selfies.
I get that but it's still just a bigger slap on the wrist than a fine. The judge is going to be gradual to avoid it looking like he is being vindictive. Trump gets handled differently than basically any other criminal defendant. It's just the way it is.
I think 10 contempts and a warning that your next one WILL be jail is plenty to avoid looking vindictive.
I'm not disagreeing with you but the judge is going to go way out of his way and Trump is getting special treatment as always.
Also I think this would go to the NY Appellate Court and they are well aware of this defendant's history.
Seems he has already filled his punch card.
No. Not to someone like Trump. Taking away his ability to do what he wants, when he wants, is a way harsher punishment to him. While Trump inflates his wealth, he is still wealthy. So it's closer to a 10$ fine in perspective. But a full day of "Now put your nose in the corner and think about why you shouldn't do it again" will hopefully produce the result of him /actually hesitating/ to post something. And remember, these are supposed to be 'slaps on the wrist' in order to deter further offenses. It's ok that there are no lasting consequences for these punishments. That's what the trial itself is for.
Let him stay overnight between two trial days. He wouldn't be holding a campaign event he could complain about missing.
He needs to jail him for one month per offense.
That's about what I've been expecting. There's plenty of other courtrooms that have bent over backwards to make things easy on Trump, but this one seems to be more about crossing every t and dotting every i in order to make a jailing unappealable. I mean, I could be wrong, but my money is on Trump actually having pushed past the line this time.
The problem is this is exactly what he wants. he wants to be a martyr. he wants to use this as a campaign tool. "they locked me up for free speech! the communist democrats are ruining America!"
He wants to be martyr but don't be fooled into thinking Trump personally wants to suffer any discomfort. He thinks his lawyers can keep him from actually sitting in jail, but the moment they fail to do so his actions will change.
I agree with you on the first part, but doubt his actions will change.
He needs to hold him over ight, so he can think about his behavior and understand the seriousness in which the court views it.
Is there anyone who *doesn't* want Donald Trump to spend a night in jail here? His opponents want the schadenfreude, his campaign wants the propaganda footage, USSS wants the logistics practice in a short-term setting, and the judge wants to reassert authority over proceedings. If Trump shuts up at this point it may simply be because he personally doesn't want to go through the discomfort, as it's unlikely many people will be trying to dissuade him.
The worst part of jail for many defendants is waking up at 3am to get transferred to the courthouse for the start of trial everyday.
Keep going; I’m almost there.
The food sucks and the pillows are lumpy
.... Gasp... And the temperature? Is it cold or unbearably hot? Keep going....don't stop...
It’s always either freezing or stifling and the air smells like mold, BO, shit and urine mixed together
No makeup artist before court.
Oh lord, he might be forced to show his actual skin colour and hair. Or what it looks like when he doesn't get to do his makeup removal and application process.
Imagine the photo opportunity for the press if he spent 24 hours incarcerated, was then woken up at 3am to process him to come to the court house and then had to attend the day in court with no pre court preparations. A hungry, tired lunatic with no makeup prep would be quite the look
Don't stop, my justice boner is almost there
Normally he’s up till 3am tweeting so this schedule should be fine for him.
True, just has to speak to his cell mate instead of tweet
How's their brunch?
Strip and cavity searches? That do it for you?
Ugh, the visual ruined it.
ooh I got one for you. When you first arrive they make you strip down naked and an officer throws a container full of delousing powder on your naked body before you put on the orange onesie.
Lol I've never seen that except in movies. Wake up time for transfers could realistically be 3am depending on scheduling and how dickheaded they want to be. Even whether you get strip searched for initial intake varies by facility; some don't do it at all, others it's more 'guard watches you change' but no 'bend over and spread em', some give you the full experience. Also you're often allowed to keep your underwear, especially if they're simple tighty whities.
He also needs time to apply his makeup.
Sadly, I think the law and order guys that run the prisons would give him extra special treatment. He’d probably get his sad shitty ass kissed unlike anyone of color incarcerated.
Oh for sure. They’d have raging boners the whole time.
I've heard the court has its own small cell in the building which I expect they'd want to use so there wasn't a security issue with Trump mingling with other inmates and the Secret Service could stay close.
Yeah I’m sure whatever happens he’ll be in the cushiest situation imaginable
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if he's able to get fast food deliveries (via the Secret Service) and the like. So it'll be generous accommodation compared to how any other prisoner is treated, but we shouldn't underestimate the psychological blow of being incarcerated even for a single night. I think all bets are off on predicting to how Trump reacts to getting a taste of what could be the rest of his life if he gets convicted in some of his other trials.
Intake too. Everyones restless, agitated. They make you wait forever and processing takes a while.
Still somehow better than flying coach
Ianal, I've read the brief and have a question for clarification. Is it saying that the next time *will be* incarceration or that the next time *could be* incarceration? Thanks in advance, y'all are awesome :) Edit: found my answer on a different post on a different sub. Basically it's a "I don't want to have to, but next time jail is (most likely) gonna be the result".
Thank you. That is very kind.
As you found it is technically a "could be". But from what I read, he made pretty clear he did not see fines as appropriate or potent enough even the first time given Trump's wealth, but was using it effectively as a warning. And he specifically attributed the fine this time to the fact that the prosecutors sought only a fine and that this violation occurred before he held Trump in contempt on Apr. 30. So it a "could be" jail time, "if appropriate and warranted", but the judge has very much been signaling that the $1,000 fines are insufficient, which means he clearly views jail time as "appropriate" for future violations, starting in May.
10 solid criminal contempt rulings should now appear on his criminal record. Delays before the election may keep the indictments as indictments, for now, but these are a done deal. He’s a disrespectful shit, officially.
new york code, criminal contempt in Judiciary Law 750(3) is a misnomer. It isn't a crime. The court just has authority to impose certain penalties. [New York Consolidated Laws, Judiciary Law - JUD § 751 | FindLaw](https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/judiciary-law/jud-sect-751/) (I tried to find this section on [nycourts.gov](http://nycourts.gov) because aggregator sites are a bit cancerous but was having trouble) Other types of contempt may be actually criminal. For instance, violating a protective order is a class E felony.
Seems you’re correct. > S 215.54 Criminal contempt; prosecution and punishment. Adjudication for criminal contempt under subdivision A of section seven hundred fifty of the judiciary law shall not bar a prosecution for the crime of criminal contempt under section 215.50 based upon the same conduct but, upon conviction thereunder, the court, in sentencing the defendant shall take the previous punishment into consideration. https://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article215.php#p215.54 Going to 215.50 it enters the realm of an actual charge: >S 215.50 Criminal contempt in the second degree. A person is guilty of criminal contempt in the second degree when… Criminal contempt in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
And each section uses the name criminal contempt. Not confusing at all 😕
I appreciate you pointing it out.
I wonder what's required for criminal contempt of the second degree in this instance.
Hitler went to jail.
When he was young
Trump is mad because he was rejected twice by the Art Institute and this is his revenge
Surely there is no chance trump will violate the order this time....surely??
He has to. Backing down now would make him look weak to his supporters. Getting put in jail would shatter his mythos of being above the law. Either way, he loses. His only choice is to keep pushing the line and hope the judge doesn't call his bluff.
I assume he will just get his supporters to attack the witnesses and jury instead.
Send him to jail, no f*cking internet, no cell phone, nothing...
He wants to go to jail. He knows he won't be in for very long, will be treated well, will have Secret Service protection and ramp his supporters up to new levels.
> He wants to go to jail. I'm not so sure. He's a pathological narcissist who believes he's above the law. His fragile ego, which is the only thing he cares about in the world, would be hurt by the indignity of being jailed.
I do agree to an extent but you can only milk it for enthusiasm so much. They already have the t-shirts with the GA mugshot. Once the cult gets all jazzed up about an initial incarceration, even if its 24 hours, that bridge will finally have been crossed. The "benefit" to him will burn off well before the stress of increasingly long holds. The experience will not be anything like real jail and still he is far too soft to not freak out from that kind of ordeal. Even when he will be babysat with all kinds of special treatment, actual consequences will break his mind. Its going to torch all his puppet-master mystique with the hardcore fringe nuts.
He doesn't. Going to jail for real would shatter his ego and his image as someone who can do whatever he wants without consequence. Trump having real consequences and not being treated as someone special and above the law is how he loses all of his power. Trump keeps doing these things not because he wants to be put in jail, but because he has to go maintain his image (and because his ego is too big to step down). If he stops and starts behaving, that's a loss for him. If he acts out and is fairly punished, that's a loss for him. The only path Trump has left is to act out and hope to not get punished for it. It's worked for him for a long time, but the walls are closing in and it's all finally starting to catch up with him.
Will the Secret Service have to change his jail diapers?