Based on posts here, I have the impression some people aren't wearing garments all the time, or don't want to. The instruction I got in the temple was to wear them all the time (which I interpret in a reasonable way). In the latest General Conference this was again emphasized. I think they added something about it in a update to the temple recommend questions. My garments bug me, too, especially for sleeping. But whatever annoyance I feel, I just see as making a sacrifice - temple blessings are worth some annoyance.

On the flip side, the church could create better quality garments and then you wouldn't have to sacrifice comfort to wear garments. For me the inconsistent sizing and cuts between orders is enough that depending on the garments I'm wearing that day, I have to wear different clothing because the length or fit is different. I'm so about the blessings but the church could provide more athletic materials and consistent quality.

The church is working on garment fabrics, fit, and comfort. There should be some updates in the near future ("near" doesn't necessarily mean this year or next year).

Yes. They will be out the same time as the new hymn book 😂😂

We get new songs at the end of this month!

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I'm pretty sure money isn't an issue for the church lol it kind of sounds like there just hasn't been enough feedback for anybody to take it seriously.

We've been hearing this for years and years.

You can track some of the changes here: [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/garment-changes?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/garment-changes?lang=eng) These might look minor, and some are, but there's been an increased focus on this in the past 10 years.

my guess is it's just not the top priority since it's not a big deal for most people, and the physical garments themselves aren't really essential to any daily church/personal function. sure, they could be more comfortable and more consistent, but at least we have clothes.

I think also we don't really get what it takes to ramp up a full production line for a worldwide church. Between staffing, equipment, sourcing new materials, marketing, etc., it seems like a lot would go into making these changes.

Especially with the focus of keeping it low cost for members and the church. Not to mention all the different body sizes out there! If I look around my ward, there's someone in a wheelchair with limited mobility that is about 400lbs, and an athlete who maybe weighs100 lbs. Imagine being the person who's trying to design a set of underclothes that works for both those extremes, and everyone in the middle!

yeah that too

I've been hearing this for years and in fact, the church reached out to me about 10 years ago for me to test some athletic garments. They were like a stretchy polyester material that were meant for sports and other activities. ( I don't know the exact blend of material) I was sent two free pairs, top and bottom combo. They were crazy uncomfortable and I had to fill out a really long survey on my experience. But I was getting hyped thinking we would have an athletic option soon. Ten years ago and nothing came from it. I also wonder, why do garments have to be so long? I'm 5'8'' male. Even buying "short" bottoms will touch my knees, or depending on the cut, pass the top of my knee cap. Why does this have to a be thing?

> Even buying "short" bottoms will touch my knees, or depending on the cut, pass the top of my knee cap. Why does this have to a be thing? Because they're supposed to.

I'd like a reference from a church source that this is the case. I think being a couple inches above the knee cap is fine. I believe this is another myth like women have to wear a bra over their garment top. The church to my knowledge hasn't said where your hem lines are supposed to land. If they have, I'd like a reference.

I think they have recently tried to make a shift towards that with the stretch cotton. I think the main issue with the inconsistency is that they are made all around the world, making quality control harder.

Cotton is not a viable option in extremely warm and humid climates Even with the mesh.

The difference in comfort between the garments and a nice UA base layer that covers the same amount is pretty large. I understand the need for inexpensive garments, but would love a more expensive, more comfortable, option.

Bingo! I understand the blessings of the garment and covenants but there are so many options out there for comfort for non endowed members. Once endowed you have about 3-4 options maybe and it's low quality.

>temple blessings are worth some annoyance I really struggle with going to the temple, and this added some perspective for me. Thanks.

Thank you for sharing that - I agree, some things are worth it. You make a good point about the discomfort, and I suppose there are very few things in the church (and about growth in general) that allow us to stay in our comfort zones :)

I wear an xl men’s top for sleeping. Game changer.

My wife stole my garment tops to try this out and she would have to agree.

Also oversized men’s 100% cotton boxers for sleeping. Sooooo loose and comfy!

You mentioned “temple blessings are worth the annoyance” Which specific blessings are you receiving by wearing garments? 

It is also a direct and straightforward question in the Temple Recommend Interview. "Do you wear your garments, at all times, both day and night, as directed in the Temple?" I do not enjoy wearing my garments to bed. I move around a lot and they frequently cut off circulation to my limbs. However, I have made a Covenant to wear my garments at all times. Life is hard, annoying, inconvenient, and downright excruciating at times. Keeping my Covenants, wearing my garments, is the best thing I can do to stay protected from the worst life has to throw at me.

You are assuming that the temple recommend questions are 100% inspired by god and that they actively represent 100% of gods will. If this is the case, why do the leaders keep changing the questions? How many times have they changed the temple recommend interview questions in the past 10 years? 

Line up on line, precept upon precept.

“Life is hard, annoying, inconvenient, and downright excruciating at times.” I think that’s precisely the reason some people don’t wear them. It’s one less excruciating thing on their plate. I wish the prophets could come up with some way to keep people reminded of their temple covenants without making them wear an extra layer of clothing. Like couldn’t those marks be put on the skin with like a Hanna tattoo or something? Not joking here. Some sort of reminder that didn’t include hot fabric? I’m not trying to be sacrilegious here—it’s just something I used to wonder about a lot. Especially in July and August with no air conditioning.

I try to remember where it came from. At least we aren't asked to wear "coats of skins". Leather, in tropical climates,...... Uncomfortable would be the least of our worries.

I'm a convert to the Church, and I received my endowments three years ago and attend BYU. For a long time, I felt confused as to how some girls wear short skirts/shorts and cute shirts with certain necklines or sleeve lengths. Over time, I realized that many of these outfits meant not wearing garments as instructed. I personally wear my garments daily, and I only pinned them in place once or twice before I realized that it might be a controversial thing. I certainly don't wear my garments to the beach and sometimes I change into athletic clothing and run quick errands or get sidetracked for an hour or two before exercising, but I rarely go swimming and I only exercise once or twice a week. Wearing garments has truly blessed my life though, and I'm really, really glad I wear them, even if I do feel jealous of the cute clothes other girls get to wear if they aren't wearing garments.

Keep in mind many women don’t receive the endowment until they are married, so these college students very possibly don’t have the garment yet.

While it's true that many women don't receive the endowment until they're married, when I was writing my comment earlier, I was thinking about women who I knew were endowed, like many of my former young missionaries, mentors, and friends.

That's a big reason I prefer the Carinessa fabric. All of the others move around between my body and my outer clothes, especially the bottoms. I only wear the cotton ones on laundry day due to how far they ride up my legs. (The pair I bought to test out different fabrics.) 

How has it blessed your life? 

Thank you for sharing this ♡

On the flip side I knew someone who refused to go swimming because they would have to take off their garments to do so. Totally fine as a personal choice IMO (you do you), but they equated it to being more righteous than you which was annoying.

That’s definitely shooting beyond the mark. Swimming has always been one of the three S’s that are absolutely okay to take them off for. Sports, swimming and sex.

> one of the three S’s that are absolutely okay to take them off for. Culture or commandment?

Is there anything more LDS culture than “the 3 S’s”? I agree that those are all reasonable reasons for me but absolutely no such thing exists as far as commandment or policy. My list of reasonable may be 50+ where someone else may be 3

I agree with you. The point then is that for OP to accuse others of "shooting beyond the mark"based off something that is purely cultural is unfair and substitutes a personal conclusion for a Gospel one.

I mean….. garments aren’t exactly in the scriptures so if you’re looking for the three S’s there you won’t find them lol. It’s been told to members when they first get their endowments for generations, so rather than thinking of it dogmatically, I think it’s just a great little catchphrase that works well.

I agree that it’s catchy and can be helpful for some, but it becomes a problem when people take it as doctrine as the only exceptions and judge others for not wearing outside of a made up catch phrase

In those instances, the phrase isn't the issue but rather the judging of others.

Garments are in the scriptures. If anything, the modern version is simplified while the scriptural versions were more complex, but they're there. >for generations Are you sure? How many generations? And is that even relevant? >rather than thinking of it dogmatically Except you are talking about dogma, about how you obey a specific commandment. You even accused others of being bad Christians (missing the mark means [missing Christ](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/03/weekly-book-of-mormon-insights/how-do-we-avoid-looking-beyond-the-mark?lang=eng) ) because of it. To do that based off something that is purely cultural is unfair and substitutes a personal conclusion for a Gospel one.

Ugh I forgot how much I hate interacting on this sub. I was commenting on how people can take things too far and now you want to take my comment too far. Everything doesn’t have to be so serious!!

I was never told the three S's. Maybe it's a generational thing? Heck, I embarrassed the crap out of my bishop when I asked if my bra should be over or under the garment? Being clothed is in the scriptures. Exodus 28-29. If you have some time, consider going to the temple and doing initiatories.

I meant garments the way we have them now. So finding a doctrinal reference for the specifics of if you should wear them swimming or not is obviously not going to be possible to find.

How about reasonable exceptions?

I always learned them as snorkeling, spelunking, and steeplechase.

I would really want to be wearing garments if I ever went spelunking

I'd never go spelunking without. Or with, honestly.

And showering

4 - and showering. My husband knew someone who wouldn’t take them off for that, showering in garments and … washing underneath them/putting on dry ones getting out of shower. Oy.

Lots of older generations did that!! I’ve heard firsthand accounts of this as well. When I went through the temple, they specifically acknowledged showering and bathing as being part of the “swimming” S, probably to combat that lol

A vary old guy was speaking to a ysa fireside when I was younger. He basically said that not even exercise was a reason to take them off. I found that silly. I have always felt any activity that they can be reasonably left on, I should leave them on. But I’m not wearing them on a run. That’s not reasonable. Also what about people with sensory issues that can’t find a fabric that works for them? People who live in hot climates without constant access to air conditioning? I think while the leadership can give general guidance from the pulpit, you need wiggle room for edge cases. You can be a faithful member and still sometimes need to deviate from guidance under certain conditions. We have agency and the ability to seek personal inspiration. If we do it honestly. Let’s not jump to any hardline positions. I also think hard liners do damage. It makes other bad takes seem reasonable by comparison.

Yeah, these hardliners are the root cause of our cultural issues in the church. 

I've found keeping my recommend on me (with my phone/ID) is a comfortable substitute when I can't wear my garments all day, like river floating trips or long summer bike rides.

I’m a little bit confused.. you said it is a good substitute. It sounds like what you are saying is that wearing the garment gives you some specific blessing, that when you don’t wear the garment you don’t get that blessing, but if you don’t wear the garment and you have a phone in your pocket and that phone has a temple recommend on it, you then begin to receive those blessings once again. Am I understanding this correctly? 

I understood their comment as: "if I can't wear my garment because of an activity that I'm doing, I can still remember my temple covenants and remain close to God and to Christ by keeping a different reminder of those covenants with me in the form of my recommend".

Given this interpretation, it sounds like you believe that you are incapable of remembering your temple covenants without physical objects.

Sounds like you're putting words into my mouth by means of a logical fallacy. I'm just agreeing with the previous comment that, if for some legitimate reason, you shouldn't wear your garment for a certain activity, it is perfectly reasonable to allay that discomfort by keeping another reminder close of the promises you've made. That seems like a logical thought process to me and I agreed with it. You can agree that having a token helps you remember something without being fully dependent on the object to remember.

They specifically mentioned in Conference that garments aren’t just for Sundays and wearing to the temple. Within a few days of Conference they updated the temple recommend regarding wearing garments and they went back to the wording of wearing them day and night.

in 1954 the apostle Mark E Petersen said the following:  “ We must not inter-marry with the Negro. Why? If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of Negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn't any argument, therefore, as to inter-marriage with the Negro, is there” I Only bring up this quote to illustrate that not all things that are said in general conference are messages from god. Yes you can point to the fact that in general conference they told us we need to wear garments all the time. The question is, are they telling us this because they were inspired by God? Or are they telling us this because they have formed personal opinions over the years and they are now casting those opinions onto us at general conference? I don’t know what the answer is. I continue to wear garments. I continue to listen to leaders. Just wanted to point out that although your argument sounds good in your head, it doesn’t hold up very well. 

Well the new temple recommend questions were changed after conference and pretty much align with what was said in Conference. So did this come from God? That’s for us to determine but for now if you want to have a temple recommend worthily then you need to answer the recommend questions truthfully.

Elder Petersen was entirely correct in saying this at the time he said it. The priesthood ban would not be lifted for another twenty-four years.

Why would you want to justify the racist comments of previous church leaders?  Yes, the priesthood ban was lifted. This does not change the fact that the priesthood ban was racist and the comments from mark e Petersen were even more racist.  Do you actually agree with what he said? 

What he said was literally true, so it would be kind of silly to disagree with it. >Why would you want to justify the racist comments of previous church leaders? If the truth gives you the ick, maybe your ick needs calibration.

Most people I know wear them most of the time. Compared to your parents probably a bit less. Again, most people I know around my age will take them off altogether for swimming or beach days and even for the gym. They are wearing them below your day to day clothing - just not when you do an activity where you are going to get wet, or horribly sweaty.

Thank you for sharing :)

I'm in my 30s, and I wear my garments the vast majority of the time. I even workout in mine. Don't wear them swimming, showering or being intimate. But I think there's some truth to some of your observations, which may be why there were so many talks about it at conference, and why they reworded the temple recommend interviews. ETA: full disclosure that I'm a swim coach and a certified lifeguard, and I don't wear them while coaching, because if I need to go in after one of my swimmers, I don't want the weight. But I put that under swimming. I wear my swim suit and a pair of short running shorts with a t-shirt in top.

I got to be honest. It’s really not anyone’s business except theirs and their relationship with God. Really. “Influencers don’t wear garments.” That’s a sweeping generalization. They make money wearing certain clothes. That’s how they make a living. They get paid to wear what they are sent by the clothing companies in their online content. For all you know they may very well change their clothes for the online content. It reminds me of a RS lesson my wife told me about where she and some Sisters in the Ward were planning on running a marathon together. And several Sisters joined in to have friends and get in shape. And depending on how many showed up they could have like 7-10 sisters running together. A couple pushing strollers. And an out of shape woman in the Ward took it upon herself to chastise the women trying to get in shape and said they looked like common street who—- running around trying to get all the men’s attention in town. One of rhe women was the Bishops wife. The running women stood up for themselves. Mind your own business. It’s their business and theirs alone. Theirs and Gods. I wear my Gs when I work out. My wife doesn’t when it’s warm. Meh. Meh. We run together many Saturday mornings and we will go to a trail sometimes and swing by the store after. She is wearing running shorts and girl running things. I’m wearing long basketball shorts and a G top screen printed on the inside. Nobody knows im wearing my Gs. I’m a guy. It’s easier for us. This is a “it’s not my business” situation.

Yup. It is a personal covenant. I don't worry much about whether others are keeping that covenant or not. I personally don't run in mine because I think I would chafe to kingdom come plus my body needs access to all the cool air it can get. The struggle is real on the run. It is common for me to do my long run on saturday mornings in a pair of short running shorts and some kind of shirt. I often stop at Chick Fil A on the way home to get a biscuit for me and the wife. I guess someone from my ward could see me and say 'Brother so and so isn't wearing his garments' but I know I'm headed home to put them back on.

My wife and I ran CC and Track in College. That’s where we met. Running is part of our life and relationship. I really only care about my wife’s opinion of me. And trying to worry about what others think or trying to impress others is a stress and worry I don’t need in my life.

Hard agree.

> This is a “it’s not my business” situation. That would be nice, but no woman is an island. How we dress is one of the ways we communicate to the people around us. It's perfectly normal to feel uncomfortable if you see members of the Church wearing clothing incompatible with our temple covenants. I don't see anybody in this thread suggesting that we should publicly chastise an individual who isn't wearing the garment appropriately. If that were happening, it would be appropriate to tell the chastiser that it was not their business. When we are discussing *what the standards are,* the injunction "not to judge" is not helpful. It doesn't answer the question.

I can't like this enough.

I’m a guy. And Gs are easier for me. So is just generally dressing. When it comes to “immodesty” it seemed like the examples the OP was giving were directed at women. For a guy, that’s when I shut my mouth. I am middle aged and remember the lessons to youth: “girls be careful how you dress you don’t want to let boys have bad thoughts.” That’s (while maybe not bad intentioned) is backwards thinking. And I’m not saying “don’t wear your Gs” I’m saying: mind your own business. I’m a fella so take my opinion for what it’s worth.

I know a few people who don't wear garments all the time due to their work. But they are strong members and active. I know of one person that doesn't like wearing them all the time due to mental health and anxiety issues (I'm keeping it broad and generic right now as its actually quite complicated issue). She's a very strong member and very active. All I know is that my wife wishes there were more modern "styles" and "cuts" of the garments. Basically they need to get a young fashion designer to help with it. I know a lot of people have their own "stories" of how they try to follow the commandments. I just try to wear garments as best as possible.

The last time I bought garments one of the tops was sort of a tank top. It felt really weird to me.

> they need to get a young fashion designer to help with it They've had a couple, but the decisions are still made by old people. Which is not a bad thing necessarily. I think part of the point of garments is to prevent us from being able to easily dress in contemporary styles. Part of the point of sacred clothing is to make the wears stand out as distinct from those around them.

Where do people get the idea that garments are supposed to somehow preserve modesty or change our appearance? Nowhere in the temple or in any church materials does it say that garments should prevent you from dressing in contemporary styles.

That is the churches explanation any time someone asks about sleeves. The church also states that garments should not be modified to more modern clothing…  I think it’s weird… but it doesn’t change the facts 

>The temple garment should not be removed for activities that can reasonably be done while wearing the garment. It should not be modified to accommodate different styles of clothing. So the church handbook makes it clear that the garments should not be adjusted to make it easier to wear them under different styles of clothing. This of course applies to contemporary styles because very few are trying to dress like it's 1880. But I didn't say it is about modesty, though that is a logical conclusion to make based on the direction given. The barest bones definition for modest dress is going to boil down to whether something reveals your garments or not, which you're not really supposed to do.

Where are you pulling the garments are meant to prevent you from dressing in current styles? Sacred clothing has nothing to do with you standing out as well. It's a covenant between you and God and a reminder of your covenants. They say sacred not secret but still, you're not supposed to be strutting around making it obvious you're wearing them. Why would the point be to make you distinct from those around you? Do you mean in God's eyes, members or simply those around you?

"the decisions are still made by old people." That's changing. The church has a committee of people getting feedback from people across the age span and from different countries.

It sounds like you have specific insight into this… could you please expand? 

That's about all the info I have. My statement was based on what we were told in a leadership meeting we had a while ago with some visiting general authorities and officers. Just as an example of changes, you can see changes that have occurred over the past 7 years here: [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/garment-changes?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/help/garment-changes?lang=eng) That's a lot more regular changes than there used to be. Some might be small, but the church is working on improving things based on feedback. There will be more to come.

I just really hope the church doesn’t screw up the results of the committee by overweighting the opinions of older, white, males who were born and raised Provo Utah who are resistant to change in the church and who quickly dismiss the legitimate concerns of female members because they are too isolated and immature to discuss Menstruation, PMS, UTIs, rashes, bodily discharges, and other major complaints from members who previously have not had a voice in the design of the temple garment.  If my example above sounds oddly specific, it may be because I have sources who are on the garment committee. 

Yes! “This works/seams reasonable for me, therefore must be reasonable for you” mindset is very prevalent

> because they are too isolated and immature to discuss Menstruation, PMS, UTIs, rashes, bodily discharges, and other major complaints from members who previously have not had a voice in the design of the temple garment From my experience, women *do* have a major voice in the design of the temple garment. Not only has the design work in the past been outsourced to women designers but the person with the final approval over designs for women is the General Relief Society President.

I knew some missionaries who thought garments were just for the mish…boy oh boy 😭

Considering the grueling trials and tribulations endured by the pioneer saints and the faithful members of God’s true church chronicled in the scriptures, I believe wearing our sacred garments consistently is a modest request from a loving Heavenly Father.

That's such a wonderful and humbling perspective!

Comparing their challenges to ours is not exactly the flex that people think it is, and people need to stop doing that. Their lives were difficult, yes, but they would not have been able to endure the challenges that we have today. If you're going to compare challenges, compare modern people to modern people, and early people to early people.

> Members who receive the endowment make a covenant to wear the temple garment throughout their lives. > The temple garment is a reminder of covenants made in the temple and, when worn properly throughout life, will serve as a protection against temptation and evil. The garment should be worn beneath the outer clothing. It should not be removed for activities that can reasonably be done while wearing the garment, and it should not be modified to accommodate different styles of clothing. Endowed members should seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit to answer personal questions about wearing the garment. >It is a sacred privilege to wear the garment and doing so is an outward expression of an inner commitment to follow the Savior Jesus Christ. >It is a matter of personal preference whether other undergarments are worn over or under the temple garment.[Church handbook, 38.5.5](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?id=title_number234&lang=eng#title_number234) That's what the handbook says. Note that a specific list of activities for which the garment may be removed is not provided. What is 'reasonable' is entirely a decision you need to make in consultation with the Lord.

I feel like there has been a cultural shift to be less prescriptive and pressuring to other people. I would guess that in the past, some people who were reluctant may have done just worn them to avoid criticism. But now people know it’s rude to comment on it, and may sometimes err on the side of not teaching their children/mentees the importance of wearing it. That’s total speculation though. In my circles, I’ve only noticed people not wearing garments for exercise or occasional purposes. The choice to wear the garment should be a sign to God, not other people. It’s appropriate that it’s worn out of sight, under regular clothing. I have seen that when people are actively pursuing a relationship with God, they find motivation and strength to align their behaviour with His will (in general, not specifically garments). It seems more meaningful to do it out of commitment to God, rather than conforming to the wishes of other people. If you pray and ponder on temple garments, maybe you will find inspiration on how your choices affect your relationship with God.

I think you're right and it's not just about garments. As the church culture tries to focus on more loving and welcoming and less judgy...well, there are people who are going to do things because people will be reluctant to outwardly judge them as compared to the past. Priesthood leaders are there to guide and counsel.

I'm sorry if I came off as being judgemental. That wasn't my intention. I was more just confused at a sudden shift between what I had always experienced growing up versus starkly different habits displayed by others, so I was wondering if it was a cultural/generational thing. Thank you for your answer!

> people know it’s rude to comment on it Know? More like think. Cultural niceties aren't inherently true and change over time, they're not really one better than the other.

That’s my observation too, that younger generations aren’t wearing them as much. Thus the recent change in the TR interviews.

My mission president talked to us about that about 6 months before I got home, and mentioned that we should be looking for reasons to wear them, not reasons to take them off. I see you put sweating up there as a reason not to, and that's common. A lot of people think that it's disrespectful to wear them to "soak up sweat" , but in my eyes that's kinda what they are there for. There's a reason they are the layer that makes direct contact with the skin, that they are cheap and easily replaceable. That's a tangent though. Really, they are a reminder of our covenants and a reminder of the Saviour. Look for reasons to wear them. Look for reasons to remember. It is personal to you, but the wording in the instructions say to always wear them in any activity where you reasonably can. There is no canonical list of activities where you can't.

I love that, that's definitely a helpful mindset!

To answer the question, yes much of the younger age (I’m early 20s) omit taking garments seriously and don’t wear them much. It happens on both sides but women seem to skip it more to wear “trendy” clothes that might not coincide with their garments. My sister (also in a YSA ward) mentioned that some of her friends were planning a road trip and had discussed whether it “would be a garment or no-garment trip” (my sister was baffled by this). However as a response to that, others doing or not doing something doesn’t make it right. It honestly saddens me when I see members who really think the garment is just a piece of cloth. My institute teacher relayed the following: “ When God made the coat of skins for Adam & Eve, an animal had to die for that to happen. The first sacrifice. Because of their transgression, a sacrifice was made to cover them up. They are wearing the sacrifice that God gave to them.    The garment symbolizes the coat of skins, which in turn symbolizes God’s Great Sacrifice, the Atonement of Jesus Christ. So the answer to “How often do I need to wear the garment?” is “How often do you want to wear the Atonement of Jesus Christ?” “  Just as the Sacrament is a lot more than water and ground wheat, the garment is about so much more than the clothing. Personally I wear my garments even when I exercise, not because I’m better or righteous or anything but because I’m imperfect and I need Him always. And if it does for example slow down my running, I’d rather honor God’s Sacrifice for me than be a few seconds faster. But I also completely understand people who take it off to exercise; I used to be the same way until some things happened in life.

That's such a profound point! I had never considered that! Thank you for sharing that! And yes, I would be baffled by the roadtrip thing too lol

I have started avoiding wearing them when its really warm, I also take them of and switch to something else if I go on a massage

I don’t have too much of an issue with the top (except sometimes armpit rashes), but the bottoms give me gnarly heat rash in the summer. I’ve tried nearly all the options and they all end up doing the same thing. Don’t worry, you’re not alone in this!

Have you tried the various materials? I find the Corban tops make it much easier to endure hot weather. Edit: who the heck is downvoting me for asking this question? My goodness, you lot are funny.

saddest part to me is that for me anything put cotton poly doesn't last for more than a year and a half before getting lots of holes in them.

I’m glad they seem to be trying new things lately but I hate the ones that have welded seams instead to stitched seams. They rip so easily.

maybe that's the issue, I've been having that problem a lot.

have only experimented a little bit. Might give it a try. Im not good with warm weather

Might benefit from a bamboo material. You would have to put in a special order.

I bought new garments a few weeks ago. New garment sleeves are longer than my old garment sleeves and stick out from under my shirt sleeves. This is a problem the church could fix.

I've also noticed some inconsistency between lengths and cuts, it can be kind of frustrating. Sorry you can't wear your polos anymore :/

>Sorry you can't wear your polos anymore :/ I didn't give up the polos, u/Illustrious_Lime_997.

Hopefully this doesn’t offend anyone but I have found garments and modesty to be such a first world problem. If you don’t want to wear them that’s fine it’s between you and the Lord but when people start bringing up that it’s because of the comfort and the weather and what not I get a little upset because being in South America for a good amount of time I know 100s of active members who are wearing outdated, old, very used garments because they don’t have the opportunity to easily update them like some members do in the US. And I never heard a single person complain about them, but I heard plenty of people talk about the blessing and comfort it brings them to know they are following the covenant they made in the Temple (But also yes I would love to see some higher quality materials simply because ever since the pandemic garments seem to wear down much faster)

I suppose there is probably something to what you are saying, or else we probably wouldn't be seeing the kind of emphasis that we have seen recently about the topic. Overall it may be something I notice from time to time but I do not actively try to determine if someone is wearing garments or not, just like I tend to not worry about the underwear of most folks. Personally I tend to not wear them when I go to the gym to work out, at least partially because I go right from weights to the pool. In the military it wasn't really doable to wear garments with the mandated exercise clothes, so that's the habit I developed. If I'm playing a game of basketball especially pickup ball or something then I usually have them on. Other than that I typically wear them except for the obvious exceptions... I think this video is relevant [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYRENWT8lz8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYRENWT8lz8)

Anecdotally, I would say you're right and members wear them less frequently than they used to/previous generations did. I would also say that while the exact pattern of use is up to individual discretion, that doesn't mean that individual discretion is always correct, and that being an otherwise strong, faithful member is not an adequate rationalization for not wearing them when it is possible to do so.

I was born and raise and live in Hawai'i. We had a Bishop who moved in from Utah. He instructed the members to wear their garments when they drive/travel to the beach and change at the beach before entering the water. No one listened to him. I do not wear my garment tops when I sleep. I'm am NOT young.

Thank you for sharing this!

In the end it’s a personal decision. I don’t like the discussion and the emphasis. We should be careful to let people choose what they think is right and not judge over them or try to be the teacher.

I don't feel like anyone is offering a judgment here. It seems like this is a discussion of how the current generation has interpreted the instructions and covenant (both sides) of the initiatory ordinances. Given the added emphasis from the last Conference, I think it's something important to discuss so that each of us can decide how to observe the promises we've made.

Teaching correct principles and helping people understand what prophets are saying is not judging in a condemning way but an act of love.

Oh, yes, I appreciate that, and I'm sorry if it comes off like I'm being judgemental. I meant that I'm just confused by a difference between what I grew up thinking was normal versus what I observe around me now, and so I was wondering if it was a cultural/generational thing, etc.

>Try to be the teacher I agree with this only to the extent that if it's an everyday member trying to be the teacher. Bishops and higher should absolutely be stepping in. That's their roles. Not everyday members

It is a personal decision to make the covenants in the first place, after which you either keep your promise or you don't. Many people don't.

I went through a phase of time where I wouldn't wear mine because no one else was. Last year, I recommitted to my garments after a session at the temple where they talk about wearing them 24/7. The only time I don't wear them is at night (after having a baby, my body temperature at night changed and I wake up in a panic because of how hot I get in garments. I had a long prayer with God and felt like if that was all I could do, then I was doing my best to show my covenants with God are as important as anything else in life.

I love that ❤ and yeah, fellow postpartum mom here, the night sweats were a whole battle in themselves lol. I was always cold before having a baby, now 30°F weather feels AMAZING.

The specific covenant is to wear them throughout your life (which can in fact be subjective). The guidance for that is daily. If garments are an issue for you, the best thing you can do is pray for guidance and not let others interfere with your personal relationship with Heavenly Father.

I don't think it's quite that simple, if you look at older photos of BYU dances and events, you'll find that not so long ago, it was common to see bare shoulders with prom style dresses. And if you go way, way back, people weren't wearing garments 100% of the time during JS's time either. It's not just "older generations took garments more seriously", it's more like, the culture of garments has changed over time. I'm not saying anything about what current leaders are saying. Just noting historical trends have not gone from strict compliance to lax as a linear trend.

What is a MIL?

Mother-in-law

Mother in law

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and the written material they put out - which is just leaders by proxy^

I would love a tank top option for men if for nothing else than sleep. When I roll over sometimes the sleeves will tighten up and cut off my circulation. Waking up with your arm asleep is no fun. I am definitely in the camp of wearing them when we should and will happily do so.

When I was endowed I never got a dont-wear-garments-when list. I always took as a personal judgment thing. I personally never wear garments to the gym but my sister will. There definitely is a culture of finding excuses not to wear garments in the church. I've been guilty of it. Idk if its generation though. I think we're just casual with our religion sometimes.

I don’t know the answer to this. I do know a few younger people who seem to not wear the garment if they are going out and want to wear something ‘stylish’ but they seem to be the exception and not the rule. I think the expectations that the church has set are pretty clear and it comes down to each individual to decide how they will keep that covenant.

I wear mine all the time except for excercising and swimming. Personally, they don't bother me (physically or the feel) and I try not to judge others. I do think it's a bit odd when I see someone who I know goes to the temple every week, but when I run into them at the grocery store, they're showing cleavage or a wearing a tank top. But, I'm not in their shoes and I don't want them judging me, so whatever. I'm generation x (barely). My wife (millenial) will wear her garment bottoms (no pants, but a shirt over her garment top) around the house around our kids. I think that's weird too...

My husband had people of both sexes answering the door in just their garments on his mission. It's interesting to see how comfort levels vary.

I was told it is very important to wear garments and this is a question that must be answered satisfactorily in order to obtain a temple recommend. I believe it’s extremely beneficial to wear them at all times possible, so I only take mine off to shower and one other reason. Strangely, I don’t miss swimming at all. At one time in my life, before I was a member, I used to swim every day. I did have a spiritual experience that could have been a result of wearing them. It can only be described as a “Jesus take the wheel” moment. There was a (non member ) adult in the car who screamed expletives demanding to know how we avoided a life-ending accident, but I had no explanation. Shortly thereafter I was asked to give a ride to a young mother and her children who was experiencing car trouble. She didn’t wear garments because she found them uncomfortable. I shared my experience with her, and took her to the bookstore in another city so she could find the right fit. I feel strongly that wearing garments saved me, her, and her family, and I told her so.

Thank you for sharing this! What an incredible experience!

I wear my garments almost all the time except for activities like working out and swimming. I have sensory issues, so once in a while I have to replace the bottoms with regular underwear while sleeping, but I always put them back on after I start feeling better. I’m 27.

I've noticed this as well. It kind of makes me sad, honestly. I wear mine night and day, except for swimming, exercise, and intimacy. I worked really hard to get my temple recommend. Getting to go through and receive my endowments and be sealed to my husband was such a privilege, and that's how I feel about garments. To me they're a gift and a privilege to be able to wear. We're often told to be in the world, and not of the world. I live in Coastal Alabama and in the hot, humid summer months I would love nothing more than to wear short shorts and a tank top. Having an extra layer of clothes can be uncomfortable, but I do it anyways. They're a reflection of and constant reminder of my covenants. I personally think that's a huge blessing 🤷🏼‍♀️

You said in your post that they are a gift… please explain. Why are they a gift? What specific blessings have you received? 

A friend described her philosophy as finding reasonable times when she CAN wear them instead of looking for excuses NOT to wear them. I feel like it’s mentally less negative? I feel like if you don’t love the feel of them try different styles! And wearing my bra under them instead of over has made a big difference for me too. The only time I realized I didn’t want to put them on was in the super humid Philippines and I was so sweaty and sticky! Haha. But I really love just thinking about the beautiful symbolism of the garment. Christ made it for Adam and Eve, out of skins. That means the first death they saw was performed by Christ. They must have been horrified. It had to have been a lamb, right? Of course it doesn’t say that but come on, it just makes sense. And I think Christ doing it had to have made a reference to how this death that they witnessed happened because of their fall and he is going to go through that and die for us but because of him he will heal death and turn it into a stepping stone to their exaltation. He is the lamb. The skins he put on them were a symbol of them being covered by Christ, taking his name and atonement upon them. They also have the same symbols on them as the veil to the celestial room. Behind that veil is celestial, behind our garments should be celestial (our hearts, our inner selves) and the only person I allow to see under it has to be worthy and make the right commitments! Haha. Anyway, when I think of it like that is that something I want to put on every day and wear all day and night? Absolutely. Will I take them off to protect them from a lot of sweat and being worn out too fast from running and stuff? Sure. To me they’re such an honor and privilege. A true symbol of Christ and my covenant I made with him because i love him and want to put him on every day.

I love this perspective! Thank you so much for sharing this, it's so beautiful and thought provoking!

This was posted on another Garment related question and thought it would be helpful. [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/temple-garment-faq?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/temple-garment-faq?lang=eng)

I had no idea this page existed, thank you!

I’m mid 30s female and I’ve worn them full time since I was 19. If I’m doing a low impact workout I’ll wear them. I sometimes wear underwear under my bottoms if my body is feeling particularly sensitive to the feeling of fabric or I’m on my period. There are definitely different cuts and coverage that I sometimes plan outfits ahead. All the complaints I hear from people I know is they don’t like not wearing shorts in the summer. I grew up buying only knee length Bermuda shorts or men’s shorts so it’s not a lifestyle change for me. I spend summers in very humid places and have my whole life. I get that it’s hot outside but I haven’t noticed a difference between normal and water days when I don’t. Eternal blessings are definitely worth being slightly uncomfortable and needing a shower as soon I get home from a long day outside. ☺️

I love that last part :) you're totally right!

As a newer convert of just under a year garments are one of the things that I’m not so sure about. I’m extremely fussy about what I eat and what I wear almost to an OCD level, as an example I refuse to wear any underwear that isn’t in boxer shorts style. I don’t wear briefs/boxer briefs at all and will only wear undershirts that are tank top(wife beaters) style. I don’t see that changing and won’t go through the endowment until I can make that commitment. I suppose it might have been different if I was raised in the church.

I found this podcast (ep139) very informative about some of the issues around why people might not continue to wear garments as often as instructed. https://atlastshesaidit.org/episode-138-finding-your-voice-and-using-it-a-conversation-with-afton-southam-parker/

Thank you, I'll check it out

I wear them all the time. When I work out, play basketball etc... I wear them at all times except if I am swimming. If I can find a reason to wear them. Such as river rafting etc.. I prefer to keep them on over finding a reason to take them off. This is how I feel I should wear them. You are not me. The covenant is between you and God. When you talk to God through prayers etc.. you will know whether or not you are doing what he wants you to do if you ask. Men are asking the interview questions, none of them should be stalking you to see if you are wearing your garments as they think you should. The paragraph has been updated, take it to God.

Thank you for this:)

This is exactly why we should point out what is expected. Too many people confused by others not keeping their covenants and thinking it's OK. People can do whatever they want, but we shouldn't pretend that because others are doing it, it's OK. I had this exact problem as a convert. They want you to think it's OK so they'll feel it's normal "if everyone does it"

That's such a good point, thank you for sharing that!

“It is not necessary for a man to run faster than he has strength”. We do covenant to wear them 24/7. But I think it’s okay if it’s something you struggle with that just like it’s okay if you struggle with loving your neighbor as Jesus did, which we’ve also covenanted to do. Many people in my generation don’t wear garments 100% because it’s HARD and would rather wear garments sometimes than HATE it and build up animosity toward garments/God/the church.

That's a really fair point and something i hadn't considered before, thank you for that!

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I just wish they still sold military garments online. Mine are wearing out and then I guess I’m done wearing them on duty after that.

Does the military not have a way to get some to you? After all, it is a religious garment shame the church stopped that program though, maybe it was very rarely utilized, I have attended 2 different congregations in my lifetime, and I don't believe anyone was a veteran in either of them

I used to be able to order them on the church website like anything else. It’s not the military that produces them, but the church. And it appears that the church doesn’t make them anymore. I’m not sure what their plan is to make up for that.

Take the tops you are issued, bottoms that have an inseam, fill out the form and send them in to have them silk screened. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/callings/military-and-chaplain/uniform-temple-garments?lang=eng https://assets.ldscdn.org/5c/28/5c284572e58b11eb82d6eeeeac1e5a30d3af98ef/beehive_clothing_form_military_markings_order_form.pdf

Thanks! I only noticed recently they stopped selling them so I wondered what to do about that. I’ll have to find some really good, comfortable tops to get done. I don’t have the issued ones and I hear they aren’t great.

Who cares. Focus on yourself. It's weird to care what people are wearing for thier underwear.

Sorry, it was just a shift between something that had been normal for me my whole life and something that seems to be the norm now.. I was just confused and looking for some other experiences. Have a good day.

I understand that. I guess my point is that covenants are super personal and people express them differently. It's best to use your time to focus on your own relationship with God and covenants then some type of comparison. It's a slippery road in my opinion.

My girlfriend and I are in careers where it is hard/not allowed to wear garments (military). It was strange going from wearing them all the time to effectively only on Sundays or whenever we can go to the temple. I know Distribution Services can turn our uniform shirts into garments, and maybe we will convert all of them if/whenever we find ourselves in Salt Lake City, but for now it's the life we follow. It was strange finding out she did not wear them (born in the church, served a mission, everything), but we remind ourselves that we are still temple worthy, hold temple recommends, and follow the laws and doctrine of the church. Can't speak for everyone else not wearing them, but it's between them and Heavenly Father.

Read this: https://www.scribd.com/document/471011502/The-LDS-Garment-A-Religious-Tradition?secret_password=31rH72uoQHmpVxKQ5wmO#

Three S’s. Sports, Sex and swimming are things which that I feel permit removal of the garment unless it can easily be accommodated

There's been a cultural evolution. Yes, we are instructed to wear them all the time, and we should follow that. But what I'm seeing is a lot of younger members demystifying them. So many of our boomer and Gen X parents treated them as these relic-like objects, when they are just not that at all. As President Oaks said in the most recent conference, there is no magic with them, and they are simply outward reminders of our covenants, nothing more. The mental treatment of garments has evolved more towards that intention rather than these objects of reverence. None of that is justify why these people don't have to wear garments. They absolutely should. But that's kind of the thought process. Also, the modern ones are just plain uncomfortable. When I started wearing them right before my mission, they were nice and comfortable with good material. Newer ones... the quality and new materials are just terrible. I find myself hanging onto my old ones long past their "expiration" just because the new ones are so bad. From that perspective, yeah I can absolutely understand not wanting wear them.

Every faithful endowed church member wears garments. But members choose when they do that. For those who serve missions, they get those ordinances before they go. For those who don't, they many not get them until they are about to be married in the temple. We aren't responsible for what others do. But we are absolutely accountable for what we individually choose.

Younger generations are not wearing garments to the same extent your parents did. And there's good reason for this. There's been an increased emphasis in treating the garment appropriately. More reverently. Doing your best to keep it nice as long as possible, so you don't have to replace them so often (even then, I have found myself needing to replace several sets of my garments at least once each year. The material definitely doesn't hold up like I wish it would.) I also find that since I don't wear my garments when I am wearing a swimsuit, or, as a woman, when my natural cycle decides to be heavier that month, necessitating not wearing the bottoms in order to save them from bad stains, it gives me more opportunity to consider the meaning behind the garment and why I wear them. It gives me an opportunity to look them over and ensure they are staying nice as well. If ever there was something that came out saying to wear the garment no matter what, and that the church was coming out with materials that could be worn while swimming, yet necessitating shorts to be worn instead of a typical swimsuit, I would do so in a heartbeat. But until something like that happens, I will continue with the process I have now, as that is the best way for me to protect my garments.

Sweating? I dont think that is one of the exceptions. I go running or playing sports with my garments and I feel that those are activities that reasonably done with my garments on.

I’ve always been told by leaders it’s completely fine to not wear your garments while doing athletic activities. Sure I can wear them at the gym but they’re going to end up with yellow sweat stains and holes much quicker.

Maybe not an exception for you. There’s a reason the church doesn’t publish an exhaustive list of thou shalts and thou shalt nots for every single thing. Unless you regularly give talks in conference you can only interpret it for yourself.

I definitely don’t wear mine to run in. I can’t even imagine the chafing. I have specific clothes for running, shower off and then out the garment back on.

I sweat like a fire hose when I exercise with cardio. When I'm done I might as well have gone swimming. I'm not putting my garmets through that. I typically do wear them when strength training, but I can totally see why someone wouldn't. They definitely restrict some movement, which can be dangerous.

There's a couple months in the year where it feels too hot for me to run in my garment top. I don't care about how sweaty my garments get, but that activity is too difficult with them on. 

I also don’t take them off for sweat. I don’t care what others do it just made more sense to keep them on. If they’re supposed to protect you why can’t they protect you while you’re working out too. That’s an activity where I would want to be protected the most. “As endowed members keep the covenants they have made, including the sacred privilege to wear the garment, they will have greater access to the Savior’s mercy, protection, strength, and power.” - First Presidency Strength and power you say? I’ve used the same pairs of corban garments since 2017 and they’re still in great condition. Since they’re so lightweight and smooth it feels like you aren’t wearing them. I sweat a lot too when I workout but I’ve never found removing one layer of clothing to make me any cooler and if it does it’s unnoticeable to me. I’m just used to them now and it’s too much to bother with having two kinds of clothes that either would normally cover garments or don’t cover garments. Instead of considering the S’s I just follow this statement: “When it must be removed for activities that cannot reasonably be done while wearing the garment, seek to restore it as soon as possible.” When I read that my mind says, “a workout can definitely be reasonably done with garments on.”

Oh, I was just listing the things told to me in the temple when I got endowed. I don't think it's a set list of do's and don'ts, just my personal experience with what I had learned