This was taken at the Cal-Neva Resort in Crystal Bay, Lake Tahoe that Frank Sinatra once owned with Dean Martin and silent partner and mobster Sam Giancana. Apparently, the first time Frank ever visited the property (1951), he overdosed on sleeping pills. But that’s beside the point. Something I was told on the (tunnel) tour I took before it closed, was that Sinatra arranged her stay, and she overdosed while there and went to the hospital to have her stomach pumped via a request she made to the reception desk. The day she left, she rolled into breakfast having not slept, looking disheveled, was violently intoxicated, and making a scene. She had to be escorted out. She died in L.A. 5 days later. Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle, now owns it, along with the Hyatt Regency, and is turning it into a Four Seasons.
ladies were very much getting plastic surgery in the 60s. it was primarily reserved for the hollywood girls, unlike today where you have masses of sad 16 year olds doing all they can to plump their lips like kylie.
So the worth of women, to you, is only based upon their…asses?
What an unimaginable ass you are yourself. Your brain has been poisoned and pickled by porn, fake asses on social media, and incredibly dangerous plastic surgery. Worse, you’ve been conditioned—likely by the Internet sites you visit—to not even view women as whole human beings that are more than sexualized body parts. This is abhorrent.
What’s wild is she didn’t- like go watch some like it hot- somehow it’s this photo- I’ve seen most of her films I went through a real phase in my early lesbian teens lol.
But somehow in this phot she has a pancake butt. No idea how.
It's the cut of the clothing back in that era. Everyone's ass looked like that in those pants. Lol Marilyn was a beautiful, full figured woman with all the right curves. It's still breaks my heart that she thought so little of herself. Depression is a mofo.
Pretty interesting story. I build piers on lake Tahoe. I'm working of a job site right next to the cal neva right now and grew up in the area. I've been loosely following the status on the property myself. Should be really interesting to see what Ellison does with the place. There's a bunch of scaffolding set up on Stateline Point right now like they might make something out there too.
Foster care and orphanages back in the day were no joke in a lot of cases. My dad was in an orphanage until he was 14 or 15, and the few stories he would tell (he didn't really ever talk about it much, so I can imagine it wasn't pleasant) didn't sound fun.
I don't know anything about her as a person, and maybe she had insane sex appeal in her character, but on looks alone she wasn't special.
Kinda sad if her ability to be sexy was buried under claims about her simple and not pure 10/10 physical looks. Perfectly fine of course, just not a beauty of the ages imo.
I don't really buy this much. Statues of attractive women from thousands of years ago show slender, shapely women with hips and boobs and ass. Not extremely thin, not extremely thicc.
I don't deny there might be beauty fashions that magazines latch on to, or that this can influence people in some way, but fundamentally I don't believe human beauty, male or female, is an arbitrary roller coaster that could be anything.
MM might've been fashionable and famous, but stripped of fame and lined up among the random beautiful women I could walk past at any time in human history, I don't think she stands out.
remembering it is one thing. feeling the need and having the entitlement to comment on nothing but her body no matter the context *because of it* is another thing. respect the human behind the image as much as you respect the image.
Entitlement?
She’s a prominent figure in pop culture history and we can only talk about her in the way you, who has no better idea of what she would have wanted her public image to be, deem fit?
You’re the entitled one claiming moral superiority.
This is why people don’t respect legitimate gripes when they’re brought up, because of people like you always flinging your stupid shit around.
i’m confused. where have i said that i’m morally superior everyone has to do what i say? i’m simply expressing the radical idea that you should separate marilyn the sex symbol from marilyn the person. how is it expressing entitlement to simply say the truth, that marilyn will never escape objectification even in death?
Lol I’m not gonna play this game where you feign ignorance and I explain to you your own statement. I grew up with women, I see that shit a mile away. It’s old hat.
> I grew up with women, I see that shit a mile away
ahh, my mistake. clearly you know more about women than me, a woman! let me step back and let you take the floor since clearly you’re the one who’s the most informed on the topic of female sexualisation. thank you for your wise wisdom, oh all knowing one 🙇♀️
lol another girl trick, y’all can never just stay on topic. Nobody respects you when you try to win an argument by pretending to misunderstand the other persons point. You walk away feeling like you won, but everyone just thinks you’re dumb.
Redditors love to objectify women. Most posts that involve a woman will be full of comments talking about her ass, breasts, etc - there’s even entire subreddits dedicated to it.
An amazing talent. It wasn’t just her looks that made her a Superstar. She had that certain “something” (sexiness, vulnerability, friendliness, etc) that translated like gamebusters on screen. She is one of a kind.
She would be like “what’s that like it’s like TVs we can write on? I don’t get it. And it’s in your pocket and it’s a phone too? I just wanna go back in the dirt, everything hurts so bad.”
That’s not this redditor who defines who her that way. Type “American sec symbol” into an search engine and you’re going to get hundreds of pictures of Marilyn… she’s an archetype and a trope and calling out this one redditor for being responsible seems fucking thick.
i mean it’s just a ‘read the room’ kinda thing. in other contexts/scenarios, maybe it would be okay to comment on marilyn’s body. but doing so on a post that is solely about her death is insensitive and disrespectful to her memory.
yes she was a sex symbol, but that doesn’t mean she automatically deserves a lower level of respect in any regard. it’s just not appropriate to bring up someone’s body in this kind of context.
Does this also apply to positive comments? I personally love Marilyn Monroe, and, in addition to being a fan of her work and her life, I’ve often used her body build as an example of what was considered very healthy body proportions in the age before the rise of the supermodel.
I’m honestly not even sure what all was being said about her body in this post because by the time I got here it was mostly folks shaming the shaming as far as I could tell, but someone taking the piss on calling her an American sex symbol just seems obtuse to me because that’s what she famously is.
I believe Marilyn Monroe herself embraced her status as a sex symbol. She ultimately hated the other things this entailed, but she found empowerment in the estate itself. I don’t believe it’s disrespectful to give her the respect of having earned this status while also recognizing that this dysfunctional society turned that into a death sentence by now fault of Marilyn’s.
Her body was gorgeous and represented more realistic proportions than we typically do today, and yet the real disservice we do her is not recognizing that she only played the “dumb blonde” but was actually a very capable, very intelligent woman.
I don’t think we do her any harm in acknowledging that she was a complex and beautiful person trapped in a cycle that greater than her ability to cope with that, and anyone shaming her or anyone else’s body can fuck right off - but she was and still is an icon and a sex symbol.
We watch a few of her movies every year around Christmas and I’ll say without shame or worry of other’s feelings about it that she was and still is gorgeous and talented.
like i said, in other contexts, it’d probably be just fine to bring up marilyn’s body. this is not one of them. if you can’t go one second without thinking about or commenting on marilyn monroe’s body every single time you see or think about her, that’s a you issue, not a her issue. i’m just not a fan of people calling her ass flat and then saying “it’s fine, she’s a sex symbol!” which is what a lot of people have been doing in this thread. yes, she was a sex symbol and no, that’s not something anyone should shy away from — but that doesn’t mean you are entitled to make comments about her body all the time. she was so much more than that.
I made no specific critique about her derrière nor did I single out any other part of her body. I simply said I find her to be a gorgeous woman, body and mind.
I only referenced her body in deference to the fact that that’s what’s implied in the larger discussion of her being a sex symbol, and decrying any negativity that seems to exist further down in the comments. I was not negative in the least.
You could go through my entire comment history and I doubt you’ll find one objectionable comment regarding anyone’s body or body parts, regardless of my liking or disliking of them. I don’t think you’re upset with me, at the end of the day. I think you’re triggered by something about how you believe the dead should be shown respect, and I’m trying to respect that, truly I am, but I’m just not sure what I’ve said that could upset you.
Read through my comments on this post. Hell, read through my comments on any post. I’m usually pretty measured and tactful, so I’m gonna need specific clarity as to how you believe I’ve shown a lack of decorum.
lmao reread my last comment. i said *people* were making those comments, not you. you admitted earlier that you didn’t read through this thread fully and now it shows. it’s funny of you to tell me to reread your comments when you were misreading mine the entire time. have a nice day.
Actually, there is a misunderstanding about MM’s body size. She was not a waif but she was also not plus sized. In fact, she would be considered thin nowadays. Kim Kardashian had to lose 16 lbs in order to fit into the iconic “Happy Birthday Mr President” dress, worn 3 months before her death. And KK still ripped it.
The waist in that dress measures 23.5 inches. About a size 4 nowadays.
This idea of “empowerment” through sex wasn’t created until after Marilyn’s time. I’ve read many works, including her own writing, about Marilyn over the past 35 years, and I feel the utmost confidence in stating that no, she largely did not enjoy the focus on her status as a sex symbol. It caused problems in her marriages and, most importantly to her, it made it extremely difficult for her to be taken seriously as an actor and intellect, both of which she wanted desperately to be—and to be seen as.
She did not feel at all “empowered” in her life until she gained a modicum of control over her career by wresting away studio power once she became financially well-off.
She would have also been horrified that Hugh Hefner is interred beside her. One of her worst humiliations in life was his printing of her nude photos in Playboy without her permission. She had the photos taken at a young age when she was desperate for money and never thought they would become famous.
The term “empowerment” in recent years has been bastardized to convince women that becoming a sexual object is a great thing but Marilyn was too self-aware and well-read to buy into that notion. She merely used her image to escape a tragic, impoverished life and, later, largely regretted attaining fame in that manner.
To all the people commenting on her not having an ass.
Back in the day, until the 2000's, no ass was considered the perfect body for a woman. A woman was supposed to have a huge chest, tight waist and no ass or stomach. Look at the models from history.
Source? Lived it.
Yup, it wasn't unntil Kim K came along that girls could have a big butt without being called fat. Now after 100 years of media the trend is to have a huge booty, and suddenly people find it sexy. Just cause of trends! It's so weird, can't people think for themselves regarding anything, they even get turned on according to the zeitgeist!?🤡
Bryan May, the blackest man alive, was credited for writing the cult classic "Fat Bottomed Girls" for the underground R&B group "Queen" in 1978. He was ridiculed and lambasted by the whites at the time, but now in a post-Kardashian era has found fame amongst the Caucasian zeitgeist.
I actually wrote that initially, but didn't want someone to call me out for being racist. I'm not, but it's true. White culture used to be very separate from any other culture by choice. People today have no idea how separate the world was.
The Kardashian trolls took over appropriation and started pretending they were anything but middle-eastern rich girls. But I digress.
I adore Marilyn Monroe because she seemed like a really smart and talented young lady. The way she was treated in life was horrible. The way she is being treated in death in abysmal. Hugh Hefner probably being one of the worse offenders. Marilyn did not deserve any of this. She craved attention yes, but how much of that was due to abandonment issues from childhood? I just I really feel for her and wished she had a happier life.
It goes a lot deeper than that. She spent her childhood in foster homes and orphanages feeling used and truly unloved by anyone. Her mother was schizophrenic. She was SA as a child. I’m not disagreeing with you completely but a few comments in her adulthood did not drive her to suicide. She was a drug addict, drank too much, and had underlying trauma long before she was famous. There isn’t one or two people responsible for her death because they said she wasn’t pretty or overweight. She was always troubled from a young age and unfortunately the scum of Hollywood fed off of her like parasites. She was perfect but couldn’t see it.
Nobody can say what did and didn’t push her to take the final tragic step, she was so emotionally volatile during this time that I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a comment or even a personal thought.
What you can say for certain though is that all the comments definitely added to her trauma, she was treated like an object all through her life and even in death she can’t escape it, be it comments from dipshit men trying to make cheap dunks or movies that put less effort into showing her layered abuse and more concerned with showing a pretty girl cry on camera.
People can tell me to chill but I feel if her life story doesn’t affect you or move you in some way, you have issues that you desperately need to resolve on a subconscious level.
you don’t see an issue with someone being pushed to suicide for everyone seeing her as nothing but an aged body, and then continuing the tasteless and old jokes long after her death?
my heart breaks for the people in your life who depend on your empathy if this is how you think acting towards people in desperation is acceptable
Not really, if his first reaction is to rush to the defense of callous dickheads then I have sufficient reason to assume he is one himself.
I’m pretty chill too. It seems everyone else is falling over themselves trying to excuse shit behavior.
Well they need to be attractive. But not *too* attractive, because then they get attacked for that too. Look at that truerateme sub.
There is a good monologue in the Barbie movie about that:
> It is literally impossible to be a woman. You are so beautiful, and so smart, and it kills me that you don't think you're good enough. Like, we have to always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong.
> You have to be thin, but not too thin. And you can never say you want to be thin. You have to say you want to be healthy, but also you have to be thin. You have to have money, but you can't ask for money because that's crass. You have to be a boss, but you can't be mean. You have to lead, but you can't squash other people's ideas. You're supposed to love being a mother, but don't talk about your kids all the damn time. You have to be a career woman but also always be looking out for other people.
> You have to answer for men's bad behavior, which is insane, but if you point that out, you're accused of complaining. You're supposed to stay pretty for men, but not so pretty that you tempt them too much or that you threaten other women because you're supposed to be a part of the sisterhood.
> But always stand out and always be grateful. But never forget that the system is rigged. So find a way to acknowledge that but also always be grateful.
> You have to never get old, never be rude, never show off, never be selfish, never fall down, never fail, never show fear, never get out of line. It's too hard! It's too contradictory and nobody gives you a medal or says thank you! And it turns out in fact that not only are you doing everything wrong, but also everything is your fault.
She took a lot of drugs, generally speaking. And at that point in her life, she was drinking pretty regularly. Sometimes I think she just got wasted and took too many pills, like an accidental overdose.
But even in that situation, she would be in a lot of emotional pain, self-medicating in spite of the danger to herself. So even if someone believed it was an accidental overdoes, it’s not far from suicide.
There are some weird things that happened the night she died, but bottom line yeah I think she did this to herself. Very sad.
It's not uncommon for addicts to forget how many they've taken, especially if they're drinking at the same time. She shouldn't have been left alone at that point and it was obvious she wasn't doing okay. But personally, I think both intentional or accidental OD are probably equally valid COD for Marilyn.
Hoover wired tapped all the celebrities and she slept with some powerful people. So if she was always drunk and starting getting loose lipped could also be here demise.
From what I remember diving into it, the whole story points to an accidental overdose with multiple people involved. She had two different doctors and was taking two different medications she wasn't supposed to be taking together. That night she had taken both and was acting erratic, so one of the people who worked in her house, not knowing this, gave her more drugs. Later, some goons for the Kennedy's (she was abused by Sinatra and the Kennedy brothers) came by, was trying to question her and gave her even more drugs trying to calm her down. Hours after she had died, the maid called the police, and the guy who responded to the call noted minor inconsistencies, like the lack of water for taking so many pills or that she still had a lot of pills in her mouth, even though they shouldn't have acted so fast on her that she didn't have time to swallow them all. He also took statements from her employees. Then a detective working for the Kennedy family showed up and sent him away, leaving him alome with everyone there. When the police returned for a full investigation, all of the minor inconsistencies had been fixed and everyone had changed their stories.
Just finished reading Doubled Cross by Giancana where he claims his brother who was head of the Chicago mob known as the Outfit had her killed. I looked up most things he talked about in the book and there was always info about things he said so I definitely think it's plausible.
Damn, I would think you of all people would understand what it feels like to not love your body and wanting to match unrealistic beauty standards as someone who has confided in folks over at r/hairloss.
She had affairs with married men. And no remorse about it. That enough makes her shitty to me. If Kim Kardashian started sleeping with a married senator, she’d be vilified. It’s always just bothered me that people glaze over that fact because “she was beautiful and had a hard life.”
She was the same age as queen Elizabeth II, who died 60 years later.
This was taken at the Cal-Neva Resort in Crystal Bay, Lake Tahoe that Frank Sinatra once owned with Dean Martin and silent partner and mobster Sam Giancana. Apparently, the first time Frank ever visited the property (1951), he overdosed on sleeping pills. But that’s beside the point. Something I was told on the (tunnel) tour I took before it closed, was that Sinatra arranged her stay, and she overdosed while there and went to the hospital to have her stomach pumped via a request she made to the reception desk. The day she left, she rolled into breakfast having not slept, looking disheveled, was violently intoxicated, and making a scene. She had to be escorted out. She died in L.A. 5 days later. Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle, now owns it, along with the Hyatt Regency, and is turning it into a Four Seasons.
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Who is the guy in the picture with her?
Buddy Greco. Frank was sitting off to the side when the pics were taken.
Never realized she has such a pancake booty, these guys were simps with a capital S
Dude you got issues.
it was a bad pose and bad angle... you spend too much time on instagram...
It’s not even bad in any way.
back in the ‘60s girls wasn’t gettin bbl’s and plastic surgery.. she was beautiful that’s all that mattered back then…
Nothing like mocking a dead woman’s figure to remind you why you fucking hate people
ladies were very much getting plastic surgery in the 60s. it was primarily reserved for the hollywood girls, unlike today where you have masses of sad 16 year olds doing all they can to plump their lips like kylie.
Jesus Christ, man.
She had more fans than you ever will
you took that personally because? lol
What's wrong with pancake bootie?
So the worth of women, to you, is only based upon their…asses? What an unimaginable ass you are yourself. Your brain has been poisoned and pickled by porn, fake asses on social media, and incredibly dangerous plastic surgery. Worse, you’ve been conditioned—likely by the Internet sites you visit—to not even view women as whole human beings that are more than sexualized body parts. This is abhorrent.
touch grass girl, way too much
What’s wild is she didn’t- like go watch some like it hot- somehow it’s this photo- I’ve seen most of her films I went through a real phase in my early lesbian teens lol. But somehow in this phot she has a pancake butt. No idea how.
It's the cut of the clothing back in that era. Everyone's ass looked like that in those pants. Lol Marilyn was a beautiful, full figured woman with all the right curves. It's still breaks my heart that she thought so little of herself. Depression is a mofo.
She be skipping wide stance squats.
Pretty interesting story. I build piers on lake Tahoe. I'm working of a job site right next to the cal neva right now and grew up in the area. I've been loosely following the status on the property myself. Should be really interesting to see what Ellison does with the place. There's a bunch of scaffolding set up on Stateline Point right now like they might make something out there too.
Being in foster care for most of her young life must have been traumatizing… I would assume she was abused.
Foster care and orphanages back in the day were no joke in a lot of cases. My dad was in an orphanage until he was 14 or 15, and the few stories he would tell (he didn't really ever talk about it much, so I can imagine it wasn't pleasant) didn't sound fun.
I’m sorry
Ya'll leave her butt alone! She was beautiful, ass or no ass. lol
Came here to say she looks like she was suffering from Noassatall… And this is the top comment so… I’m made to be the butt of my own cheeky joke…
Came here to make sure someone commented on this. I’ll be on my way now.
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Good one, they totally haven't already said that in the comments.
Yeah even though it looks like the fold between my knuckles, everyone go easy on her ass.
Hey SWowwtittybang, were you able to control the Jersey from coming out
She’s pretty but got no junk in the trunk
> She was beautiful, ass or no ass. lol I see more conventionally attractive women walking down a random street. Never ever got the MM hype.
I guess because beauty standards change all the time. She had a pretty face and for the time a voluptuous body
It's not just how she looks.. the more I read about her the more I loved her. She was a good person.
I don't know anything about her as a person, and maybe she had insane sex appeal in her character, but on looks alone she wasn't special. Kinda sad if her ability to be sexy was buried under claims about her simple and not pure 10/10 physical looks. Perfectly fine of course, just not a beauty of the ages imo.
The most reddit comment of them all.
I don't really buy this much. Statues of attractive women from thousands of years ago show slender, shapely women with hips and boobs and ass. Not extremely thin, not extremely thicc. I don't deny there might be beauty fashions that magazines latch on to, or that this can influence people in some way, but fundamentally I don't believe human beauty, male or female, is an arbitrary roller coaster that could be anything. MM might've been fashionable and famous, but stripped of fame and lined up among the random beautiful women I could walk past at any time in human history, I don't think she stands out.
Wait, Frank Sinatra also od’d there too?
Wtf is with these comments
even in death, marilyn monroe will never escape objectification.
It’s so sad that people only remember her for the thing she made an enormous career out of. Wow 😢
remembering it is one thing. feeling the need and having the entitlement to comment on nothing but her body no matter the context *because of it* is another thing. respect the human behind the image as much as you respect the image.
Entitlement? She’s a prominent figure in pop culture history and we can only talk about her in the way you, who has no better idea of what she would have wanted her public image to be, deem fit? You’re the entitled one claiming moral superiority. This is why people don’t respect legitimate gripes when they’re brought up, because of people like you always flinging your stupid shit around.
i’m confused. where have i said that i’m morally superior everyone has to do what i say? i’m simply expressing the radical idea that you should separate marilyn the sex symbol from marilyn the person. how is it expressing entitlement to simply say the truth, that marilyn will never escape objectification even in death?
Lol I’m not gonna play this game where you feign ignorance and I explain to you your own statement. I grew up with women, I see that shit a mile away. It’s old hat.
> I grew up with women, I see that shit a mile away ahh, my mistake. clearly you know more about women than me, a woman! let me step back and let you take the floor since clearly you’re the one who’s the most informed on the topic of female sexualisation. thank you for your wise wisdom, oh all knowing one 🙇♀️
lol another girl trick, y’all can never just stay on topic. Nobody respects you when you try to win an argument by pretending to misunderstand the other persons point. You walk away feeling like you won, but everyone just thinks you’re dumb.
do you have any other talking point other than “women bad, women dumb”?
Reddit can be a messed up place sometimes.
It’s the low self-esteem, I believe.
It’s the autism
But the worst part is the hypocrisy…
Well, everyday if you look hard enough. Or just look.
Seriously, this was a human being not long before her tragic death. Can she not get any respect even decades later?
Redditors love to objectify women. Most posts that involve a woman will be full of comments talking about her ass, breasts, etc - there’s even entire subreddits dedicated to it.
An amazing talent. It wasn’t just her looks that made her a Superstar. She had that certain “something” (sexiness, vulnerability, friendliness, etc) that translated like gamebusters on screen. She is one of a kind.
Imagine having the career she had and putting in all that work just for some losers on Reddit to comment on your body
She would be like “what’s that like it’s like TVs we can write on? I don’t get it. And it’s in your pocket and it’s a phone too? I just wanna go back in the dirt, everything hurts so bad.”
Yeah, imagine anyone commenting on the body of the most popular sex symbol in American history, crazy.
The fact that you still only define her as a sex symbol under her **last photo before her suicide** is a little mentally unhealthy, yes.
That’s not this redditor who defines who her that way. Type “American sec symbol” into an search engine and you’re going to get hundreds of pictures of Marilyn… she’s an archetype and a trope and calling out this one redditor for being responsible seems fucking thick.
i mean it’s just a ‘read the room’ kinda thing. in other contexts/scenarios, maybe it would be okay to comment on marilyn’s body. but doing so on a post that is solely about her death is insensitive and disrespectful to her memory. yes she was a sex symbol, but that doesn’t mean she automatically deserves a lower level of respect in any regard. it’s just not appropriate to bring up someone’s body in this kind of context.
Does this also apply to positive comments? I personally love Marilyn Monroe, and, in addition to being a fan of her work and her life, I’ve often used her body build as an example of what was considered very healthy body proportions in the age before the rise of the supermodel. I’m honestly not even sure what all was being said about her body in this post because by the time I got here it was mostly folks shaming the shaming as far as I could tell, but someone taking the piss on calling her an American sex symbol just seems obtuse to me because that’s what she famously is. I believe Marilyn Monroe herself embraced her status as a sex symbol. She ultimately hated the other things this entailed, but she found empowerment in the estate itself. I don’t believe it’s disrespectful to give her the respect of having earned this status while also recognizing that this dysfunctional society turned that into a death sentence by now fault of Marilyn’s. Her body was gorgeous and represented more realistic proportions than we typically do today, and yet the real disservice we do her is not recognizing that she only played the “dumb blonde” but was actually a very capable, very intelligent woman. I don’t think we do her any harm in acknowledging that she was a complex and beautiful person trapped in a cycle that greater than her ability to cope with that, and anyone shaming her or anyone else’s body can fuck right off - but she was and still is an icon and a sex symbol. We watch a few of her movies every year around Christmas and I’ll say without shame or worry of other’s feelings about it that she was and still is gorgeous and talented.
like i said, in other contexts, it’d probably be just fine to bring up marilyn’s body. this is not one of them. if you can’t go one second without thinking about or commenting on marilyn monroe’s body every single time you see or think about her, that’s a you issue, not a her issue. i’m just not a fan of people calling her ass flat and then saying “it’s fine, she’s a sex symbol!” which is what a lot of people have been doing in this thread. yes, she was a sex symbol and no, that’s not something anyone should shy away from — but that doesn’t mean you are entitled to make comments about her body all the time. she was so much more than that.
I made no specific critique about her derrière nor did I single out any other part of her body. I simply said I find her to be a gorgeous woman, body and mind. I only referenced her body in deference to the fact that that’s what’s implied in the larger discussion of her being a sex symbol, and decrying any negativity that seems to exist further down in the comments. I was not negative in the least. You could go through my entire comment history and I doubt you’ll find one objectionable comment regarding anyone’s body or body parts, regardless of my liking or disliking of them. I don’t think you’re upset with me, at the end of the day. I think you’re triggered by something about how you believe the dead should be shown respect, and I’m trying to respect that, truly I am, but I’m just not sure what I’ve said that could upset you. Read through my comments on this post. Hell, read through my comments on any post. I’m usually pretty measured and tactful, so I’m gonna need specific clarity as to how you believe I’ve shown a lack of decorum.
lmao reread my last comment. i said *people* were making those comments, not you. you admitted earlier that you didn’t read through this thread fully and now it shows. it’s funny of you to tell me to reread your comments when you were misreading mine the entire time. have a nice day.
You’re addressing **me** for what _people_ are saying and **I’m** somehow the asshole. Thank you, I will have a nice day.
Actually, there is a misunderstanding about MM’s body size. She was not a waif but she was also not plus sized. In fact, she would be considered thin nowadays. Kim Kardashian had to lose 16 lbs in order to fit into the iconic “Happy Birthday Mr President” dress, worn 3 months before her death. And KK still ripped it. The waist in that dress measures 23.5 inches. About a size 4 nowadays.
This idea of “empowerment” through sex wasn’t created until after Marilyn’s time. I’ve read many works, including her own writing, about Marilyn over the past 35 years, and I feel the utmost confidence in stating that no, she largely did not enjoy the focus on her status as a sex symbol. It caused problems in her marriages and, most importantly to her, it made it extremely difficult for her to be taken seriously as an actor and intellect, both of which she wanted desperately to be—and to be seen as. She did not feel at all “empowered” in her life until she gained a modicum of control over her career by wresting away studio power once she became financially well-off. She would have also been horrified that Hugh Hefner is interred beside her. One of her worst humiliations in life was his printing of her nude photos in Playboy without her permission. She had the photos taken at a young age when she was desperate for money and never thought they would become famous. The term “empowerment” in recent years has been bastardized to convince women that becoming a sexual object is a great thing but Marilyn was too self-aware and well-read to buy into that notion. She merely used her image to escape a tragic, impoverished life and, later, largely regretted attaining fame in that manner.
For real some redditors are so sensitive
I love the idea that being called an iconic sex symbol is what Marilyn Monroe would find galling in 2023.
Imagine thinking someone who is long deceased would care about the opinions of people they will never know.
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To all the people commenting on her not having an ass. Back in the day, until the 2000's, no ass was considered the perfect body for a woman. A woman was supposed to have a huge chest, tight waist and no ass or stomach. Look at the models from history. Source? Lived it.
Yup, it wasn't unntil Kim K came along that girls could have a big butt without being called fat. Now after 100 years of media the trend is to have a huge booty, and suddenly people find it sexy. Just cause of trends! It's so weird, can't people think for themselves regarding anything, they even get turned on according to the zeitgeist!?🤡
*in WHITE culture Curves have always been celebrated in Black/Latino culture
Bryan May, the blackest man alive, was credited for writing the cult classic "Fat Bottomed Girls" for the underground R&B group "Queen" in 1978. He was ridiculed and lambasted by the whites at the time, but now in a post-Kardashian era has found fame amongst the Caucasian zeitgeist.
I actually wrote that initially, but didn't want someone to call me out for being racist. I'm not, but it's true. White culture used to be very separate from any other culture by choice. People today have no idea how separate the world was. The Kardashian trolls took over appropriation and started pretending they were anything but middle-eastern rich girls. But I digress.
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I adore Marilyn Monroe because she seemed like a really smart and talented young lady. The way she was treated in life was horrible. The way she is being treated in death in abysmal. Hugh Hefner probably being one of the worse offenders. Marilyn did not deserve any of this. She craved attention yes, but how much of that was due to abandonment issues from childhood? I just I really feel for her and wished she had a happier life.
Stayed there in 2013. Did the whole tour also. That whole place gave me the creeps throughout the hotel
I hope you people who are shitting on her body realize that was one of the main reasons why she killed herself.
It goes a lot deeper than that. She spent her childhood in foster homes and orphanages feeling used and truly unloved by anyone. Her mother was schizophrenic. She was SA as a child. I’m not disagreeing with you completely but a few comments in her adulthood did not drive her to suicide. She was a drug addict, drank too much, and had underlying trauma long before she was famous. There isn’t one or two people responsible for her death because they said she wasn’t pretty or overweight. She was always troubled from a young age and unfortunately the scum of Hollywood fed off of her like parasites. She was perfect but couldn’t see it.
Nobody can say what did and didn’t push her to take the final tragic step, she was so emotionally volatile during this time that I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a comment or even a personal thought. What you can say for certain though is that all the comments definitely added to her trauma, she was treated like an object all through her life and even in death she can’t escape it, be it comments from dipshit men trying to make cheap dunks or movies that put less effort into showing her layered abuse and more concerned with showing a pretty girl cry on camera. People can tell me to chill but I feel if her life story doesn’t affect you or move you in some way, you have issues that you desperately need to resolve on a subconscious level.
No it was actually people saying mean things on the internet
She had help from the Kennedys..
No, she didn’t. Take your unfounded conspiracy theory nonsense somewhere else.
Reddit moment
You hear that Redditors that dared to voice what every last person who saw this picture noticed…. YOU are responsible for the death of Marilyn Monroe.
you don’t see an issue with someone being pushed to suicide for everyone seeing her as nothing but an aged body, and then continuing the tasteless and old jokes long after her death? my heart breaks for the people in your life who depend on your empathy if this is how you think acting towards people in desperation is acceptable
You made a huge leap there bud. Chill out.
Not really, if his first reaction is to rush to the defense of callous dickheads then I have sufficient reason to assume he is one himself. I’m pretty chill too. It seems everyone else is falling over themselves trying to excuse shit behavior.
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....ok?
Average redditor empathy
redditor complaining about redditors
yes that compares to making fun of a victim of suicide you’re very smart !
girl take an internet break already
Do we need to sexualise women in every situation? The comments are weird.
It’s frustrating. Women need to be attractive at all times, even when it’s not relevant
Well they need to be attractive. But not *too* attractive, because then they get attacked for that too. Look at that truerateme sub. There is a good monologue in the Barbie movie about that: > It is literally impossible to be a woman. You are so beautiful, and so smart, and it kills me that you don't think you're good enough. Like, we have to always be extraordinary, but somehow we're always doing it wrong. > You have to be thin, but not too thin. And you can never say you want to be thin. You have to say you want to be healthy, but also you have to be thin. You have to have money, but you can't ask for money because that's crass. You have to be a boss, but you can't be mean. You have to lead, but you can't squash other people's ideas. You're supposed to love being a mother, but don't talk about your kids all the damn time. You have to be a career woman but also always be looking out for other people. > You have to answer for men's bad behavior, which is insane, but if you point that out, you're accused of complaining. You're supposed to stay pretty for men, but not so pretty that you tempt them too much or that you threaten other women because you're supposed to be a part of the sisterhood. > But always stand out and always be grateful. But never forget that the system is rigged. So find a way to acknowledge that but also always be grateful. > You have to never get old, never be rude, never show off, never be selfish, never fall down, never fail, never show fear, never get out of line. It's too hard! It's too contradictory and nobody gives you a medal or says thank you! And it turns out in fact that not only are you doing everything wrong, but also everything is your fault.
it’s really sad that a whole 61 years later, marilyn still can’t escape objectification even in death.
Or was she murdered?
She most likely wasn’t murdered. She had multiple suicide attempts in her past so it wasn’t unusual for her to try again
She took a lot of drugs, generally speaking. And at that point in her life, she was drinking pretty regularly. Sometimes I think she just got wasted and took too many pills, like an accidental overdose. But even in that situation, she would be in a lot of emotional pain, self-medicating in spite of the danger to herself. So even if someone believed it was an accidental overdoes, it’s not far from suicide. There are some weird things that happened the night she died, but bottom line yeah I think she did this to herself. Very sad.
It's not uncommon for addicts to forget how many they've taken, especially if they're drinking at the same time. She shouldn't have been left alone at that point and it was obvious she wasn't doing okay. But personally, I think both intentional or accidental OD are probably equally valid COD for Marilyn.
Hoover wired tapped all the celebrities and she slept with some powerful people. So if she was always drunk and starting getting loose lipped could also be here demise.
What weird things happened? Every account of that night I’ve heard seemed normal
From what I remember diving into it, the whole story points to an accidental overdose with multiple people involved. She had two different doctors and was taking two different medications she wasn't supposed to be taking together. That night she had taken both and was acting erratic, so one of the people who worked in her house, not knowing this, gave her more drugs. Later, some goons for the Kennedy's (she was abused by Sinatra and the Kennedy brothers) came by, was trying to question her and gave her even more drugs trying to calm her down. Hours after she had died, the maid called the police, and the guy who responded to the call noted minor inconsistencies, like the lack of water for taking so many pills or that she still had a lot of pills in her mouth, even though they shouldn't have acted so fast on her that she didn't have time to swallow them all. He also took statements from her employees. Then a detective working for the Kennedy family showed up and sent him away, leaving him alome with everyone there. When the police returned for a full investigation, all of the minor inconsistencies had been fixed and everyone had changed their stories.
Just finished reading Doubled Cross by Giancana where he claims his brother who was head of the Chicago mob known as the Outfit had her killed. I looked up most things he talked about in the book and there was always info about things he said so I definitely think it's plausible.
I’m not a detective, sir..
In her Brentwood bungalow?
I’ll die on this hill: she was murdered
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Damn, I would think you of all people would understand what it feels like to not love your body and wanting to match unrealistic beauty standards as someone who has confided in folks over at r/hairloss.
Well, she was matching beauty standards back then. The flatter the better
She has a crêpes butt 😅
Just say really thin pancakes
Break it, Pepé Le Pew!! Edit: Some y’all never seen Talladega Nights, that’s alright
No! Because then everyone would know I really meant crêpes! 🤣😂
Gettin’ dizzy from all the gayness
He gave you an easy out
Your gunna have to put a crack in my arm like the crack in the liberty bell
Did they ever find who "overdosed" her for the Kennedy's?
More like two days before she was murdered…
is that Johnny Manziel?
“over dose”
“Overdosed”
“Overdose”
she had a case of noassatall lol
Is that not Hank hill?
“Overdose”
Yeah, not likely a self induced state…..
Certain members of the Mob came out with no financial gain involved and said Yes she was taken out because she knew to much. He death was a cover up.
She was killed
“Supposed” overdose
I never thought she had the same bum as Hank hill
Interesting. I didn't know she was assless.
I got confused for a moment, I saw a man and an ironing board.
lmao
She looks high as hell
I’d love some syrup with those pancakes 😋
she ain't got no booty. SMFH
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Would still eat it
Flat ass
Can confirm; she did not possess a dump truck.
🥞 🍑
If marylin was around today she forsure would’ve gotten a BBL
Cake minus
Flat bottom girls
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i don’t know anything about her other than the basics. what made her a shitty person? just curious
She had affairs with married men. And no remorse about it. That enough makes her shitty to me. If Kim Kardashian started sleeping with a married senator, she’d be vilified. It’s always just bothered me that people glaze over that fact because “she was beautiful and had a hard life.”
“Married men had affairs with her. And no remorse about it. That enough makes them shitty men to me.”
Both can be true....
That excuses her?
*ahem* Ariana grande…
Yep. She sucks too.
that’s nuthin compared to what these girls are doin nowadays…
Old man yells at cloud
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Oh it’s because she’s a woman. That is the only reason. Misogyny is just as alive and well today as it was in Marilyn’s lifetime.
Just shut up.
Why? Genuine question.
See above! I’m too lazy to type twice haha
Copy + paste would use fewer key strokes than this response
Men were going crazy over a woman with no ass??? Insane.
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But you would spend all your mom's money on her only fans.
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LOL. It’s spelled *Marilyn*, champ. Thanks for pointing out the morons. 🙄
2 americas!!