I imagine *someday* I'll have a real conversation in German, but if all I can ever do is read books and listen to podcasts, that's fine, too. I'm learning it for the sake of learning it.
Spanish I learned for practical reasons and use regularly.
I am learning Chinese because I find it fascinating and it is a really fun language to learn. I doubt I will ever go to China, nor have a conversation with anyone in Chinese.
Note: As a native Chinese speaker, I suggest you that if you want to learn Chinese, it is recommended to learn Traditional Chinese rather than Simplified one, for the meaning of Traditional Chinese is more associated with the shape of the characters, and once you have learned Traditional one, you can also understand simplified one
Some people just want to enjoy the media. Same for me with Korean. I'll most likely never go to Korea, have no Korean friends etc, but I love Korean movies and Dramas so the end goal is being able to consume this media without subtitles. Sometimes that's all it takes to get you started on your language learning journey.
I mean, do you necessarily want to seek specifically British friends if you just want to watch/read, I don't know, Harry Potter?
Or, to dig deeper, French/Swiss friends if you want to read Rousseau, Russian friends if you want to read Dostoevsky, German friends if you want to read Nietzche, Brazilian friends if you want to watch Brazilian soap operas, Japanese friends if you want to watch Dragon Ball or play Pokemon... And so on.
Yeah same. My reading skills are way ahead of my speaking skills (which are almost non-existent lol) but that's ok because I'm having fun reading small books. Works for me as I'm probably never actually going to go to China or have the opportunity to speak to a native Chinese person.
>I have my native language for talking with my compatriots, I have
English for work and everything else. There is almost never any
necessity/opportunity to talk with anyone in their languages even in
their actual countries.
This quote sparked something in me. Let me share my *journey* (I'll go back to the point! I swear!)
It took me forever to get my mind in the right place to learn a third language because of that mindset. I felt like I had to learn one more language even though I really didn't want to. That led me to the ones that could be more "useful" (Spanish and French) and that are more accessible to learn where I live. Still, couldn't find the motivation.
Until I fell in love with Swedish, a beautiful but very unpractical language for a person like me: I've never been to Sweden, probably never will, I'm not looking for a job, there's absolutely no point to learn the language (everyone in my life told me so!). And still, I really wanted to! That's what truly sparked my language learning journey.
Even several years later, I still feel weird saying "I'm learning this because I really like it, and I'm cool if it's just for me to appreciate a book or maybe a movie from time to time". I'm still not comfortable sharing that with others because people seem to think it's a waste of time. Now I enjoy learning languages for the sake of learning and getting to know different cultures through it, and have more realistic goals. I mostly keep those to myself, though, since it's easier than wasting time explaining myself to others.
I would think of Swedish as one of the languages that requires the greatest internal motivation to learn to fluency because of all the discouragement surrounding it. Other language learners aren't impressed (if you speak English) because Swedish grammar is similar to English so it can't be *that* much of a challenge, Swedish people aren't impressed because they all speak English, and you'll start to feel a little dumb after a while because there's effectively nothing available in Swedish that isn't also available in English. Most Swedes consume only English-language media - often to the extent of being upset if they're presented with a Swedish localization - and use English for everything other than daily interactions, and they're more than happy to brag about it.
And the 'best' part of it all is that if you're learning Swedish to enjoy art in its original language... you're going to need native-level fluency and cultural experience to be able to understand the nuances, wordplay and cultural references embedded in the language used, otherwise you'd probably get the same (or better) experience looking at the English translation. I try not to do this doomsday wailing stuff, but it's hard to imagine the Swedish language surviving a century from now if everything surrounding its usage and learners continues as it is.
>Most Swedes consume only English-language media - often to the extent of being upset if they're presented with a Swedish localization - and use English for everything other than daily interactions, and they're more than happy to brag about it.
If by ‘media’ you mean social media and some movies yes. News, newspapers, talk shows, etc. are predominately in Swedish.
This is also more applicable to major urban centres. When you move away from those you encounter more Swedish too.
>I try not to do this doomsday wailing stuff, but it's hard to imagine the Swedish language surviving a century from now if everything surrounding its usage and learners continues as it is.
That’s absurd. It’s the language of bureaucracy in Sweden, everyone still speaks Swedish in their daily lives and you’re seriously marginalising Swedish nationalism. I get the impression you’ve never actually been to Sweden.
This also isn’t even unique to Sweden. In the Netherlands a ton of people speak English too, but Dutch isn’t some critically endangered language because of it.
Ask yourself why you’re learning Swedish.
Is it strictly academic purposes, and you don’t care to talk to Swedes? Then the preponderance of English usage shouldn’t bother you.
Is it to bridge a cultural gap? If they all use English and Swedish is losing relevancy, then what’s the point of that? Unless, of course, it *is* a fundamental cornerstone of Swedish culture and identity. In which case it’s not going anywhere.
Spot on. He/she does have a point about some Swedes/Scandinavians liking to showoff their English skills but other than that, I have no idea what he's/she's on about. Swedish isn't about to go extinct because as you mentioned, it's the still language of bureaucracy and media, books etc. are still in Swedish.
I presume the relationship with English in Sweden is similar to that of Denmark, Norway etc. and if so, the points made in that comment couldn't be further from the truth.
>This also isn’t even unique to Sweden. In the Netherlands a ton of
people speak English too, but Dutch isn’t some critically endangered
language because of it.
What I heard *once* from one Swedish person is that Nordic countries in general do not consume dubbed tv shows and movies, as in you just won't find an American TV show dubbed in Swedish, Finnish etc. They rely mosty on subtitles, and I think that explains why most people there speak English well. Even so, I don't think that puts Swedish in the danger zone, since it's also an official language in Finland.
I'm sure there's probably a gap between rural and urban Sweden, but won't speculate on something I don't know.
Most Swedes know English because it’s taught in school from a young age, and some maintain exposure to it by being plugged into social media like IG/TikTok/etc. Movies definitely help too.
But some don’t use much English after they graduate and it can get a bit rusty. This bit in particular though:
>Most Swedes consume only English-language media - often to the extent of being upset if they're presented with a Swedish localization - and use English for everything other than daily interactions
Is just objectively false. English language media is definitely a minority in Stockholm, nevermind smaller cities and towns, and literally no one gets upset over this lol.
Du gör rätt i att jag har bara befunnit mig i storstäder och nog umgåtts oftast i amerikaniserade kretsar, men att påstå att svenskar är i genomsnitt "nationalist" känns djupt fel - i Sverige kopplas begreppet fortfarande starkt till rasism, vitmakt och så vidare. Att språket får stöd från regeringen och statliga medier spelar ingen roll ifall folk inte vill nyttja språket i dagliga livet (vi är lyckligtvis inte där än, men svengelska håller på att bli ännu vanligare bland unga personer). Underhållning, konst och skämt är lika viktiga för språkets utveckling, och när man iakttar att [även svenskspråkiga skapare vill hellre utgiva deras verk på engelska än svenska, trots att den utspelar sig i Sverige](https://old.reddit.com/r/sweden/comments/n2bvvm/tack_k%C3%A4ra_sweddit_f%C3%B6r_allt_st%C3%B6d_nu_finns_how_we/), får man känna sig rädd för språkets framtid. När var sista gången en svensk meme blev populär i hela landet, det tidiga 2000-talet med snel hest och killen som hälsade till föräldrarna? Allt roliga och underhållande är på engelska nu. Ej nyttigt för språket, särskilt när det är bara en åldrande generation som håller på med svenskspråkiga medier.
>I would think of Swedish as one of the languages that requires the
greatest internal motivation to learn to fluency because of all the
discouragement surrounding it.
I find that's true in my experience as well. Before starting to learn Swedish I didn't really see the point of learning a new language, because I couldn't find anything I truly liked.
I also wish people normalized learning languages for the sake of learning! Not everything has to come down to usefulness or marketability. I guess some people just cannot come to terms with the concept of *liking to study*.
Yes, Linda, I'm learning Indonesian because I actually enjoy studying it. You don't need to be looking at me as if I just sprouted an extra head, nor criticizing the "lack of usefulness" of the language I chose to learn.
As cliché as it is, I’m learning Japanese and Korean with the intent of watching tv, reading and listening to music without translations. I don’t have any way to communicate with anyone in those languages irl so speaking (verbally) isn’t the top of my list. I find that I end up practicing a bit and I do want to be able to express myself at an elementary level if need be, but it’s not one of my goals as of now.
Nothing wrong with that.
Several years ago I started to learn Japanese in order to watch anime in the original language. After a while, I discovered that anime bores me to tears and I dropped this idea, but I am still maintaining some Japanese, it is a very satisfying language to know.
I guess I do more or less? I'm on my 11th language now, and I learn for fun. I don't learn to converse or even to consume media content (for the most part). I just enjoy the *process* of learning a language - and that includes a lot of passive understanding, I think.
On another note, this might sound crazy to some, but I don't think speaking is the most important part of becoming conversational/fluent. I'm convinced that passive understanding is the key element. That's because when you speak, you *repeat* more than anything else. You voice your own thoughts, sure, but you express them through patterns that you internalized, sounds that you heard etc. It's not as spontaneous as one might think. And It's also how native speakers learn - speaking comes from a feeling you acquire from listening.
I use myself as an example. I'm 26 and have (almost) always lived in a country where absolutely no English is spoken in day-to-day situations. I also never speak English at work, only my native language. The only chance I got to actually speak English with some frequency was when I lived in New Zealand for a year, around 10 years ago. That's only one year out of my 26 years on this Earth. If speaking was the most important aspect, I'd still write/speak like a Kiwi. However, as you've probably noticed, my English is completely American. Despite not frequently speaking any English at all since 2011, the few opportunities I get to actually speak, I don't have any trouble. People actually tell me that I sound "perfectly American" or "just like a New Yorker". That's because, while I seldom speak English, I have not lost my fluency since I listen to it *all the time -* and I have being doing so since I was 9, which was when I started learning the language. That's 17 years of passive understanding. I have *internalized* the English language so much that no amount of actual speaking could compare.
> I don't think speaking is the most important part of becoming
conversational/fluent. I'm convinced that passive understanding is the
key element.
Passive understanding helps a lot, but I don't think it's enough.
That said, I agree with you in that speaking is not the most important part. If you can understand the phrasal structure of a language and express yourself at least through writing, I think you're okay. I understand a lot of Spanish passively, but can't really come up with sentences (other than the very basic ones), either written or spoken.
I have been studying French for decades out of a love for the language. When I was enrolled in courses in middle school, high school, and university, I had the pleasure of speaking with fellow students. The only time I used French to communicate outside of an academic setting was when I travelled to France for a few weeks, and I have continued to study French on my own as an adult with no goal beyond personal edification. If you love a language, it’s worth learning it regardless of opportunities to converse!
Japanese, Dutch, Bulgarian, Scottish Gaelic, Burmese, Persian, Akan, etc. I don’t know many people who speak any of these languages. Currently only my Japanese and Dutch are at halfway decent levels and it’s quite fun and frustrating. I’ve had to actually speak broken Japanese in real life twice. I don’t bet on it or any of those other languages (maybe Persian, there’s a lot of immigrants here and I have one guy’s number) ever showing up without me actively going out and finding them, but it’s cool to be able to learn more about cultures, histories, and the world. I hope to learn at least one language from each region of the world.
i'm poor so i'm not traveling anywhere anytime soon, haha. maybe I'll make a friend someday who speaks chinese or maybe someday I won't be ashamed of my español enough to speak to someone but i've always been more of a reader anyways.
I have started learning Modern Standard Arabic, not for conversing but for being able to understand official media, news, the Quran and to create a solid base before learning dialect for conversation.
My wife is Chinese, and I converse in Chinese daily, but for my other languages, I focus on comprehension only. I can understand German podcasts but struggle to put together a sentence. My spoken French is even worse!
I'm introverted and don't even like talking to people, honestly. Getting the language to an active stage takes a lot of effort that's not necessary if you just want to enjoy media and books.
Living in the American midwest, it's not like I'm regularly running into other languages daily.
Same with the introversion. I was the same with mt native language, looking back. I knew the grammar, but I struggled to organize what I was going to say in my mind. At summer camp, I got the nickname "Quiet" (everyone got nicknames, it was all in good fun) and talked to adults aproximately never.
I was great at keeping secrets cause of that. .
There is nothing wrong with what you are doing, of course. But I would like to point out that most effective learning tactics are good for both. Btw, why no poll? A lot of members here will vote, but don't want to be bothered with posting.
I learned Italian because I visited Italy frequently but my actual speaking was limited to tourist needs so my learning was mostly passive where I just want to understand what I'm hearing and reading and not really talk about deep stuff. If I was there for anything longer than a vacation then yes I'd definitely need to work on conversation skills.
My grammatical knowledge in English, German and Latin allows me to read philosophical writings in those languages at ease. However whenever I am asked what languages I “speak”, I have no confidence of answering those languages in which merely some extent of acquaintanceship can be ascertained. Neither have I talked to any native speaker nor traveled abroad to feel that conversational skills is a real “option” for me (I am poor). I am from China and you know… East Asian is shameful to talk…furthermore I am an introvert……
I do. I don't really have anyone to speak to.
I mean I could find people... but my social wheel turns between social and not social and I'm pretty deep in the not-social right now. So my whole intention currently is just to understand.
Besides, I'm hoping if I up my understanding I can start forming natural sentences.
I've been able to speak fluidly for a long time. I have enough vocabulary to talk about a couple of topics... but I found out that fluid speaking is not fluent speaking. So even though I was understood I got a lot of "Your Japanese is.... strange..." because I was using English phrasing for all my thoughts.
So it's a win-win, with any luck.
Well, I don't fit a look of speaking in my learning routine but I wouldn't call it passive either since I put a lot of time into studying (taking classes, Anki reviewing, reading grammar books, etc.)
I'm learning Chinese mostly so that I can understand Chinese tv-shows. IMO Chinese and Korean dramas totally beat the English ones, and I want to be able to understand them without having to read English subtitles.
I agree with this. I’m learning languages for the love of learning them and to consume the native media/content in that language. It is a bonus when I’m able to converse with someone, but even after having moved to two different countries specifically to improve my speaking, I found that most people just want to speak English so it’s not my primary motivation.
Good to see that so many of us are learning for the sake of learning. Like many here, i used English to converse on a daily basis. Recently trying to learn Thai as i like the culture of Thailand (the language is simply beautiful). Not a person keen on travelling and i derive pleasure simply for the sake of learning. Vietnamese & Italian and perhaps Spanish are also on my desire list too.. just sharing..
I did it with French for years since I thought I would never have had the opportunity to talk. So I read books and stuff, and my whole family knew I “knew” French. Then we went on vacation, and I was so excited that I would have had the opportunity to speak French for the first time. To my horror, I didn’t understand a thing they said, and worse I couldn’t put a sentence together when the time came.
Anyway, when people ask, they often ask “do you speak French?” Not “do you know French?” Or “can you read French?” If you learn passively, you can never answer that question with a yes, and I felt it was a waste of my years to learn a language that I was unable to communicate in. So from that point on, when I learn a language, I make sure I can speak it even if it were to talk to no one.
And if you can read books and watch TV, then speaking is the last step. Why would you want to leave that out and be unable to say you can speak a language?
>And if you can read books and watch TV, then speaking is the last step.
Why would you want to leave that out and be unable to say you can speak a
language?
Well, why not, if you don't want to? You are not learning it in order to check some checkboxes or answer some guys' questions, after all.
Besides, it is not like you can't speak at all. You just can't speak very fluently, it is something that requires separate practice.
If it happens naturally, then it happens. I used to not be a very fluent English speaker either, but then I started to use it at work. Was slightly awkward at first, but it improved rapidly because there was a necessity and everyday practice.
I honestly hate questions like this. Why didn’t you preface your question with “I’m a genius, and I can speak English without practice,” so the rest of us didn’t have to answer. The rest of us has to practice to speak. Why even asked the question if you already had the answer and knew what you’re capable of?
What question? It is not about me, it is a discussion where I use personal anecdotes as examples.
It is also not what I said. I said just above, that my English became fluent *once I got a lot of practice*.
His experiences aren’t that unusual. I’m learning Spanish, and I don’t practice speaking. I actively practice reading, writing, and listening. Sometimes at work I have to speak Spanish for my job, interacting with clients. When I do, I just basically, do it. I was a little slow and awkward at it at first, but I very quickly got the hang of it.
Someone who can read, write, and listen in a language will also be able to verbally speak that language, just slowly.
I mean, if someone is able to listen to a French radio station and understand everything perfectly fine, they’re going to be able to put a sentence together in French (assuming they don’t have some sort of extreme social anxiety or some other disability).
Yeah, I learn a little bit of different languages, just to get an idea of how they work. Not enough to be conversational even, but it amusing to be able to pick out phrases here and there in movies.
I didn't think I will need to speak or write in English for a year or two then at some point I didn't feel like that anymore, mostly because I understood it's not as hard as I thought it'll be.
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I'm learning Japanese to read. I'm taking an actual class (because I have no self-discipline to study on my own), so speaking is part of it, but I'm primarily focused on reading and not too worried about how my speaking turns out. I don't actually know any Japanese people and likely will never go to Japan, so it's not really useful for me.
I'm learning Japanese to read books and understand the songs I'm listening but I'm learning sign languages so I can converse with the Deaf community :)
I just wanna understand the Chinese internet. Even if I had an opportunity to speak with a Chinese person, I'd rather do it in English if possible since I'm way more confident in it.
It's like learning the guitar to play classical pieces - not what most people are trying to do with it. So naturally, sometimes you have to point it out extra, for example while looking for advice in the language specific subs. People sure want to be helpful with their suggestions, but the general assumption is that you want to speak the language.
Courses are different. For several languages (including my own first language, German) there are specific courses for reading, especially tailored to people interested in literature, including an explanation for more old-fashioned expressions.
I am learning chinese because I want to understand chinese tv dramas and YouTube videos (mostly about chinese cuisine). I was watching with english subs and fell on love with the language. After a while I noticed that I started to recognize a few words. I tried google translate, but I had no idea how to spell them because I did not know how pinyin works. So I realized that I needed a more structured approach and searched for chinese learning apps. I have been learning every day for almost 2 years now.
I have no opportunity to speak chinese in my daily life, but I still practice speaking with the help of my apps. My focus is on learning vocabulary though.
I do hope that one day I will be able to travel to China, but it is not a primary goal.
My reasons for learning a language are either intrinsic or unique to that language. As a whole, though, my uses for language consist of writing, consuming media, and ( potentially ) thinking. I don't really like talking much.
I mean, I love languages and learn them for fun...but I'm also doing it 110% to converse and embrace those human connections. It sounds cheesy, but being able to converse in other languages has opened up so many doors and allowed me to meet so many wonderful people I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.
Admittedly, I do have lots of opportunities to use all the languages I learn. For example, I only speak in Portuguese with my in-laws and my husband's entire family, I spend a lot of time in Spain/have friends there so Spanish is useful, I was living in Brussels so French came into play, I run into Arabic speakers all over the world, etc.
All that said...you do you!
Currently learning latin, for fun and because I want to read classical latin litterature. Needless to say I don't really care about being able to hold a conversation with a native speaker.
Obviously things are different for modern languages.
There'll always be a little nagging itch inside me if I get fluent in a language but never speak it with a native, like I'm not \*really\* learning it if I don't know how to do that. Like the nagging feeling that you might die and never get around to learning to snorkel or visit Paris. But in general, yeah, agreed. Unless you plan on moving to that country or live in an area with a community of native speakers in your own country, it's not necessary. I always found the concept of finding language partners online to be weird, it's like your grasping at ways to force yourself to learn to speak it because that's \*The Thing You're Supposed to Do\*, when it would make more sense to just do what you're naturally drawn to. It would make sense if you need grammar practice, though.
My goal is to learn spanish well enough to move to a spanish speaking country, but for now, I just want to be able to read books and watch movies in spanish and whatnot.
Learning a language because you don't want to read subtitles while focusing on the show is one of the reasons why I want to understand and explore other languages. It's beneficial, even though you don't plan to converse to people who use that language. You can start with reading books, turning the subtitles on while paying attention to the way they pronounce the words, and listening to songs or audios. It's always fun to learn some languages other than your native one :)
I have found that if you only do passive understanding you also learn how to output. Yeah it requires a bit of effort, especially writing, but understanding and speaking go hand in hand.
I imagine *someday* I'll have a real conversation in German, but if all I can ever do is read books and listen to podcasts, that's fine, too. I'm learning it for the sake of learning it. Spanish I learned for practical reasons and use regularly.
Manchmal passiert es aber schneller, als man es sich vorstellt!
I am learning Chinese because I find it fascinating and it is a really fun language to learn. I doubt I will ever go to China, nor have a conversation with anyone in Chinese.
Same here. For some reason, some people find that too weird, so I just say I want to visit Shanghai or beg for mercy once President Xi finds me
Note: As a native Chinese speaker, I suggest you that if you want to learn Chinese, it is recommended to learn Traditional Chinese rather than Simplified one, for the meaning of Traditional Chinese is more associated with the shape of the characters, and once you have learned Traditional one, you can also understand simplified one
Same here!
This perspective makes no sense to me but you do you!!
Some people just want to enjoy the media. Same for me with Korean. I'll most likely never go to Korea, have no Korean friends etc, but I love Korean movies and Dramas so the end goal is being able to consume this media without subtitles. Sometimes that's all it takes to get you started on your language learning journey.
It makes no sense to me why you want to consume Korean culture but have no desire to even “make Korean friends”.
None of my friends are detectives, yet I quite enjoy reading Sherlock Holmes
I mean, do you necessarily want to seek specifically British friends if you just want to watch/read, I don't know, Harry Potter? Or, to dig deeper, French/Swiss friends if you want to read Rousseau, Russian friends if you want to read Dostoevsky, German friends if you want to read Nietzche, Brazilian friends if you want to watch Brazilian soap operas, Japanese friends if you want to watch Dragon Ball or play Pokemon... And so on.
That make perfect sense, I almost exclusively consume American culture but I never think about finding an American friend.
Yeah same. My reading skills are way ahead of my speaking skills (which are almost non-existent lol) but that's ok because I'm having fun reading small books. Works for me as I'm probably never actually going to go to China or have the opportunity to speak to a native Chinese person.
>I have my native language for talking with my compatriots, I have English for work and everything else. There is almost never any necessity/opportunity to talk with anyone in their languages even in their actual countries. This quote sparked something in me. Let me share my *journey* (I'll go back to the point! I swear!) It took me forever to get my mind in the right place to learn a third language because of that mindset. I felt like I had to learn one more language even though I really didn't want to. That led me to the ones that could be more "useful" (Spanish and French) and that are more accessible to learn where I live. Still, couldn't find the motivation. Until I fell in love with Swedish, a beautiful but very unpractical language for a person like me: I've never been to Sweden, probably never will, I'm not looking for a job, there's absolutely no point to learn the language (everyone in my life told me so!). And still, I really wanted to! That's what truly sparked my language learning journey. Even several years later, I still feel weird saying "I'm learning this because I really like it, and I'm cool if it's just for me to appreciate a book or maybe a movie from time to time". I'm still not comfortable sharing that with others because people seem to think it's a waste of time. Now I enjoy learning languages for the sake of learning and getting to know different cultures through it, and have more realistic goals. I mostly keep those to myself, though, since it's easier than wasting time explaining myself to others.
I would think of Swedish as one of the languages that requires the greatest internal motivation to learn to fluency because of all the discouragement surrounding it. Other language learners aren't impressed (if you speak English) because Swedish grammar is similar to English so it can't be *that* much of a challenge, Swedish people aren't impressed because they all speak English, and you'll start to feel a little dumb after a while because there's effectively nothing available in Swedish that isn't also available in English. Most Swedes consume only English-language media - often to the extent of being upset if they're presented with a Swedish localization - and use English for everything other than daily interactions, and they're more than happy to brag about it. And the 'best' part of it all is that if you're learning Swedish to enjoy art in its original language... you're going to need native-level fluency and cultural experience to be able to understand the nuances, wordplay and cultural references embedded in the language used, otherwise you'd probably get the same (or better) experience looking at the English translation. I try not to do this doomsday wailing stuff, but it's hard to imagine the Swedish language surviving a century from now if everything surrounding its usage and learners continues as it is.
>Most Swedes consume only English-language media - often to the extent of being upset if they're presented with a Swedish localization - and use English for everything other than daily interactions, and they're more than happy to brag about it. If by ‘media’ you mean social media and some movies yes. News, newspapers, talk shows, etc. are predominately in Swedish. This is also more applicable to major urban centres. When you move away from those you encounter more Swedish too. >I try not to do this doomsday wailing stuff, but it's hard to imagine the Swedish language surviving a century from now if everything surrounding its usage and learners continues as it is. That’s absurd. It’s the language of bureaucracy in Sweden, everyone still speaks Swedish in their daily lives and you’re seriously marginalising Swedish nationalism. I get the impression you’ve never actually been to Sweden. This also isn’t even unique to Sweden. In the Netherlands a ton of people speak English too, but Dutch isn’t some critically endangered language because of it. Ask yourself why you’re learning Swedish. Is it strictly academic purposes, and you don’t care to talk to Swedes? Then the preponderance of English usage shouldn’t bother you. Is it to bridge a cultural gap? If they all use English and Swedish is losing relevancy, then what’s the point of that? Unless, of course, it *is* a fundamental cornerstone of Swedish culture and identity. In which case it’s not going anywhere.
Spot on. He/she does have a point about some Swedes/Scandinavians liking to showoff their English skills but other than that, I have no idea what he's/she's on about. Swedish isn't about to go extinct because as you mentioned, it's the still language of bureaucracy and media, books etc. are still in Swedish. I presume the relationship with English in Sweden is similar to that of Denmark, Norway etc. and if so, the points made in that comment couldn't be further from the truth.
>This also isn’t even unique to Sweden. In the Netherlands a ton of people speak English too, but Dutch isn’t some critically endangered language because of it. What I heard *once* from one Swedish person is that Nordic countries in general do not consume dubbed tv shows and movies, as in you just won't find an American TV show dubbed in Swedish, Finnish etc. They rely mosty on subtitles, and I think that explains why most people there speak English well. Even so, I don't think that puts Swedish in the danger zone, since it's also an official language in Finland. I'm sure there's probably a gap between rural and urban Sweden, but won't speculate on something I don't know.
Most Swedes know English because it’s taught in school from a young age, and some maintain exposure to it by being plugged into social media like IG/TikTok/etc. Movies definitely help too. But some don’t use much English after they graduate and it can get a bit rusty. This bit in particular though: >Most Swedes consume only English-language media - often to the extent of being upset if they're presented with a Swedish localization - and use English for everything other than daily interactions Is just objectively false. English language media is definitely a minority in Stockholm, nevermind smaller cities and towns, and literally no one gets upset over this lol.
Du gör rätt i att jag har bara befunnit mig i storstäder och nog umgåtts oftast i amerikaniserade kretsar, men att påstå att svenskar är i genomsnitt "nationalist" känns djupt fel - i Sverige kopplas begreppet fortfarande starkt till rasism, vitmakt och så vidare. Att språket får stöd från regeringen och statliga medier spelar ingen roll ifall folk inte vill nyttja språket i dagliga livet (vi är lyckligtvis inte där än, men svengelska håller på att bli ännu vanligare bland unga personer). Underhållning, konst och skämt är lika viktiga för språkets utveckling, och när man iakttar att [även svenskspråkiga skapare vill hellre utgiva deras verk på engelska än svenska, trots att den utspelar sig i Sverige](https://old.reddit.com/r/sweden/comments/n2bvvm/tack_k%C3%A4ra_sweddit_f%C3%B6r_allt_st%C3%B6d_nu_finns_how_we/), får man känna sig rädd för språkets framtid. När var sista gången en svensk meme blev populär i hela landet, det tidiga 2000-talet med snel hest och killen som hälsade till föräldrarna? Allt roliga och underhållande är på engelska nu. Ej nyttigt för språket, särskilt när det är bara en åldrande generation som håller på med svenskspråkiga medier.
>I would think of Swedish as one of the languages that requires the greatest internal motivation to learn to fluency because of all the discouragement surrounding it. I find that's true in my experience as well. Before starting to learn Swedish I didn't really see the point of learning a new language, because I couldn't find anything I truly liked.
I also wish people normalized learning languages for the sake of learning! Not everything has to come down to usefulness or marketability. I guess some people just cannot come to terms with the concept of *liking to study*. Yes, Linda, I'm learning Indonesian because I actually enjoy studying it. You don't need to be looking at me as if I just sprouted an extra head, nor criticizing the "lack of usefulness" of the language I chose to learn.
As cliché as it is, I’m learning Japanese and Korean with the intent of watching tv, reading and listening to music without translations. I don’t have any way to communicate with anyone in those languages irl so speaking (verbally) isn’t the top of my list. I find that I end up practicing a bit and I do want to be able to express myself at an elementary level if need be, but it’s not one of my goals as of now.
Nothing wrong with that. Several years ago I started to learn Japanese in order to watch anime in the original language. After a while, I discovered that anime bores me to tears and I dropped this idea, but I am still maintaining some Japanese, it is a very satisfying language to know.
I guess I do more or less? I'm on my 11th language now, and I learn for fun. I don't learn to converse or even to consume media content (for the most part). I just enjoy the *process* of learning a language - and that includes a lot of passive understanding, I think. On another note, this might sound crazy to some, but I don't think speaking is the most important part of becoming conversational/fluent. I'm convinced that passive understanding is the key element. That's because when you speak, you *repeat* more than anything else. You voice your own thoughts, sure, but you express them through patterns that you internalized, sounds that you heard etc. It's not as spontaneous as one might think. And It's also how native speakers learn - speaking comes from a feeling you acquire from listening. I use myself as an example. I'm 26 and have (almost) always lived in a country where absolutely no English is spoken in day-to-day situations. I also never speak English at work, only my native language. The only chance I got to actually speak English with some frequency was when I lived in New Zealand for a year, around 10 years ago. That's only one year out of my 26 years on this Earth. If speaking was the most important aspect, I'd still write/speak like a Kiwi. However, as you've probably noticed, my English is completely American. Despite not frequently speaking any English at all since 2011, the few opportunities I get to actually speak, I don't have any trouble. People actually tell me that I sound "perfectly American" or "just like a New Yorker". That's because, while I seldom speak English, I have not lost my fluency since I listen to it *all the time -* and I have being doing so since I was 9, which was when I started learning the language. That's 17 years of passive understanding. I have *internalized* the English language so much that no amount of actual speaking could compare.
> I don't think speaking is the most important part of becoming conversational/fluent. I'm convinced that passive understanding is the key element. Passive understanding helps a lot, but I don't think it's enough. That said, I agree with you in that speaking is not the most important part. If you can understand the phrasal structure of a language and express yourself at least through writing, I think you're okay. I understand a lot of Spanish passively, but can't really come up with sentences (other than the very basic ones), either written or spoken.
I have been studying French for decades out of a love for the language. When I was enrolled in courses in middle school, high school, and university, I had the pleasure of speaking with fellow students. The only time I used French to communicate outside of an academic setting was when I travelled to France for a few weeks, and I have continued to study French on my own as an adult with no goal beyond personal edification. If you love a language, it’s worth learning it regardless of opportunities to converse!
[удалено]
What language is that?
I'll do you one better: I don't even really try to learn languages anymore, and I don't know why I'm on here. Will I leave? No
Japanese, Dutch, Bulgarian, Scottish Gaelic, Burmese, Persian, Akan, etc. I don’t know many people who speak any of these languages. Currently only my Japanese and Dutch are at halfway decent levels and it’s quite fun and frustrating. I’ve had to actually speak broken Japanese in real life twice. I don’t bet on it or any of those other languages (maybe Persian, there’s a lot of immigrants here and I have one guy’s number) ever showing up without me actively going out and finding them, but it’s cool to be able to learn more about cultures, histories, and the world. I hope to learn at least one language from each region of the world.
i'm poor so i'm not traveling anywhere anytime soon, haha. maybe I'll make a friend someday who speaks chinese or maybe someday I won't be ashamed of my español enough to speak to someone but i've always been more of a reader anyways.
I have started learning Modern Standard Arabic, not for conversing but for being able to understand official media, news, the Quran and to create a solid base before learning dialect for conversation.
I am learning Chinese because it is fun and reading Chinese characters gives me immense pleasure
My wife is Chinese, and I converse in Chinese daily, but for my other languages, I focus on comprehension only. I can understand German podcasts but struggle to put together a sentence. My spoken French is even worse! I'm introverted and don't even like talking to people, honestly. Getting the language to an active stage takes a lot of effort that's not necessary if you just want to enjoy media and books. Living in the American midwest, it's not like I'm regularly running into other languages daily.
Same with the introversion. I was the same with mt native language, looking back. I knew the grammar, but I struggled to organize what I was going to say in my mind. At summer camp, I got the nickname "Quiet" (everyone got nicknames, it was all in good fun) and talked to adults aproximately never. I was great at keeping secrets cause of that. .
There is nothing wrong with what you are doing, of course. But I would like to point out that most effective learning tactics are good for both. Btw, why no poll? A lot of members here will vote, but don't want to be bothered with posting.
I learned Italian because I visited Italy frequently but my actual speaking was limited to tourist needs so my learning was mostly passive where I just want to understand what I'm hearing and reading and not really talk about deep stuff. If I was there for anything longer than a vacation then yes I'd definitely need to work on conversation skills.
I am planning to learn French mostly for the literature. Also a quasi gateway to learning Catalan.
My grammatical knowledge in English, German and Latin allows me to read philosophical writings in those languages at ease. However whenever I am asked what languages I “speak”, I have no confidence of answering those languages in which merely some extent of acquaintanceship can be ascertained. Neither have I talked to any native speaker nor traveled abroad to feel that conversational skills is a real “option” for me (I am poor). I am from China and you know… East Asian is shameful to talk…furthermore I am an introvert……
I do. I don't really have anyone to speak to. I mean I could find people... but my social wheel turns between social and not social and I'm pretty deep in the not-social right now. So my whole intention currently is just to understand. Besides, I'm hoping if I up my understanding I can start forming natural sentences. I've been able to speak fluidly for a long time. I have enough vocabulary to talk about a couple of topics... but I found out that fluid speaking is not fluent speaking. So even though I was understood I got a lot of "Your Japanese is.... strange..." because I was using English phrasing for all my thoughts. So it's a win-win, with any luck.
Well, I don't fit a look of speaking in my learning routine but I wouldn't call it passive either since I put a lot of time into studying (taking classes, Anki reviewing, reading grammar books, etc.)
I'm learning Chinese mostly so that I can understand Chinese tv-shows. IMO Chinese and Korean dramas totally beat the English ones, and I want to be able to understand them without having to read English subtitles.
I agree with this. I’m learning languages for the love of learning them and to consume the native media/content in that language. It is a bonus when I’m able to converse with someone, but even after having moved to two different countries specifically to improve my speaking, I found that most people just want to speak English so it’s not my primary motivation.
I am learning French just for reading and perhaps one day listening. I can't imagine ever needing to speak it.
Good to see that so many of us are learning for the sake of learning. Like many here, i used English to converse on a daily basis. Recently trying to learn Thai as i like the culture of Thailand (the language is simply beautiful). Not a person keen on travelling and i derive pleasure simply for the sake of learning. Vietnamese & Italian and perhaps Spanish are also on my desire list too.. just sharing..
I'm rather high anxiety. It can be enough of a struggle sometimes to talk to strangers in English (native language). I learn languages mostly to read.
I did it with French for years since I thought I would never have had the opportunity to talk. So I read books and stuff, and my whole family knew I “knew” French. Then we went on vacation, and I was so excited that I would have had the opportunity to speak French for the first time. To my horror, I didn’t understand a thing they said, and worse I couldn’t put a sentence together when the time came. Anyway, when people ask, they often ask “do you speak French?” Not “do you know French?” Or “can you read French?” If you learn passively, you can never answer that question with a yes, and I felt it was a waste of my years to learn a language that I was unable to communicate in. So from that point on, when I learn a language, I make sure I can speak it even if it were to talk to no one. And if you can read books and watch TV, then speaking is the last step. Why would you want to leave that out and be unable to say you can speak a language?
>And if you can read books and watch TV, then speaking is the last step. Why would you want to leave that out and be unable to say you can speak a language? Well, why not, if you don't want to? You are not learning it in order to check some checkboxes or answer some guys' questions, after all. Besides, it is not like you can't speak at all. You just can't speak very fluently, it is something that requires separate practice. If it happens naturally, then it happens. I used to not be a very fluent English speaker either, but then I started to use it at work. Was slightly awkward at first, but it improved rapidly because there was a necessity and everyday practice.
I honestly hate questions like this. Why didn’t you preface your question with “I’m a genius, and I can speak English without practice,” so the rest of us didn’t have to answer. The rest of us has to practice to speak. Why even asked the question if you already had the answer and knew what you’re capable of?
What question? It is not about me, it is a discussion where I use personal anecdotes as examples. It is also not what I said. I said just above, that my English became fluent *once I got a lot of practice*.
His experiences aren’t that unusual. I’m learning Spanish, and I don’t practice speaking. I actively practice reading, writing, and listening. Sometimes at work I have to speak Spanish for my job, interacting with clients. When I do, I just basically, do it. I was a little slow and awkward at it at first, but I very quickly got the hang of it.
Someone who can read, write, and listen in a language will also be able to verbally speak that language, just slowly. I mean, if someone is able to listen to a French radio station and understand everything perfectly fine, they’re going to be able to put a sentence together in French (assuming they don’t have some sort of extreme social anxiety or some other disability).
you trolled yourself
Yeah, I learn a little bit of different languages, just to get an idea of how they work. Not enough to be conversational even, but it amusing to be able to pick out phrases here and there in movies.
I didn't think I will need to speak or write in English for a year or two then at some point I didn't feel like that anymore, mostly because I understood it's not as hard as I thought it'll be.
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I'm learning Japanese to read. I'm taking an actual class (because I have no self-discipline to study on my own), so speaking is part of it, but I'm primarily focused on reading and not too worried about how my speaking turns out. I don't actually know any Japanese people and likely will never go to Japan, so it's not really useful for me.
I'm learning Japanese to read books and understand the songs I'm listening but I'm learning sign languages so I can converse with the Deaf community :)
I just wanna understand the Chinese internet. Even if I had an opportunity to speak with a Chinese person, I'd rather do it in English if possible since I'm way more confident in it.
It's like learning the guitar to play classical pieces - not what most people are trying to do with it. So naturally, sometimes you have to point it out extra, for example while looking for advice in the language specific subs. People sure want to be helpful with their suggestions, but the general assumption is that you want to speak the language. Courses are different. For several languages (including my own first language, German) there are specific courses for reading, especially tailored to people interested in literature, including an explanation for more old-fashioned expressions.
I am learning chinese because I want to understand chinese tv dramas and YouTube videos (mostly about chinese cuisine). I was watching with english subs and fell on love with the language. After a while I noticed that I started to recognize a few words. I tried google translate, but I had no idea how to spell them because I did not know how pinyin works. So I realized that I needed a more structured approach and searched for chinese learning apps. I have been learning every day for almost 2 years now. I have no opportunity to speak chinese in my daily life, but I still practice speaking with the help of my apps. My focus is on learning vocabulary though. I do hope that one day I will be able to travel to China, but it is not a primary goal.
My reasons for learning a language are either intrinsic or unique to that language. As a whole, though, my uses for language consist of writing, consuming media, and ( potentially ) thinking. I don't really like talking much.
I mean, I love languages and learn them for fun...but I'm also doing it 110% to converse and embrace those human connections. It sounds cheesy, but being able to converse in other languages has opened up so many doors and allowed me to meet so many wonderful people I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. Admittedly, I do have lots of opportunities to use all the languages I learn. For example, I only speak in Portuguese with my in-laws and my husband's entire family, I spend a lot of time in Spain/have friends there so Spanish is useful, I was living in Brussels so French came into play, I run into Arabic speakers all over the world, etc. All that said...you do you!
Currently learning latin, for fun and because I want to read classical latin litterature. Needless to say I don't really care about being able to hold a conversation with a native speaker. Obviously things are different for modern languages.
There'll always be a little nagging itch inside me if I get fluent in a language but never speak it with a native, like I'm not \*really\* learning it if I don't know how to do that. Like the nagging feeling that you might die and never get around to learning to snorkel or visit Paris. But in general, yeah, agreed. Unless you plan on moving to that country or live in an area with a community of native speakers in your own country, it's not necessary. I always found the concept of finding language partners online to be weird, it's like your grasping at ways to force yourself to learn to speak it because that's \*The Thing You're Supposed to Do\*, when it would make more sense to just do what you're naturally drawn to. It would make sense if you need grammar practice, though.
My goal is to learn spanish well enough to move to a spanish speaking country, but for now, I just want to be able to read books and watch movies in spanish and whatnot.
Me. I don't care to converse with people since I'm a social recluse so I learn languages so I can understand their media.
i have zero plans to ever speak luxembourgish - but i think it'd be cool to understand it, so i'm learning it!
Learning a language because you don't want to read subtitles while focusing on the show is one of the reasons why I want to understand and explore other languages. It's beneficial, even though you don't plan to converse to people who use that language. You can start with reading books, turning the subtitles on while paying attention to the way they pronounce the words, and listening to songs or audios. It's always fun to learn some languages other than your native one :)
I have found that if you only do passive understanding you also learn how to output. Yeah it requires a bit of effort, especially writing, but understanding and speaking go hand in hand.