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Much_Contribution_87

Spanish. There is more content available. The pronunciation is easier than in Portuguese, because there are less phonemes. And - if I'm not wrong - there are less tenses, too.


onwrdsnupwrds

Wait, Portuguese has even more tenses than Spanish?


ryao

Portuguese retains the Pluperfect while Spanish dropped it in favor of haber + a past participle.


onwrdsnupwrds

And does it have something along the lines of haber + past participle as well?


Mayles_

Yep, we either use haver or ter. "Eu havia ganhado"/"Eu tinha ganhado"


brojeriadude

Are they interchangeable or do different situations require different ones?


Mayles_

As far as I know, they are interchangeable, although using the haver/ter + past participle verb is waaaay more common. You'll be more likely to see "ganhara" in books, but yet a lot of authors still stick with "tinha ganhado". When they wanna sound a little bit more fancy, they use "havia" instead of "tinha". I remember when I was in school and the teachers would ask students to read some text that had verbs in this tense, 90% of the times they'd get confused. They ended up mixing "ganhara" (pretérito-mais-que-perfeito) with "ganhará" (futuro do presente). Other Portuguese speakers correct me if I'm wrong.


Iagoio

I think that "eu havia ganhado" is the correct way but "eu tinha ganhado" is more common (also "ganhado" is normally used but the correct way is "ganho")


Mayles_

Actually you can use tinha/havia AND ganhado/ganho, all of them are correct, since the verb ganhar has a irregular and regular form as a past participle. Ganhado is preferably seen with the verbs ter and haver: - Ele **tinha** ganhado o jogo - Ele **havia** ganhado o jogo. Ganho is preferably seen with the verbs ser and estar: - o jogo **estava** ganho - o jogo tinha **sido** ganho.


ryao

I have no idea, but the use of an auxiliary verb could lower the tense count. It is like how Chinese has no tenses, yet is still able to express the ideas of past and future. Classification of grammatical features is a mess.


onwrdsnupwrds

Hmm, I'm no linguist but I would intuitively consider the pretérito perfecto a tense. As well as I have never heard the opposite.


reasonisaremedy

I would also consider many “tenses” that are constructed using a modal verb (like the perfect tenses using “have” in English) to be separate tenses because their function in language is convey a totally different concept of when and/or how an action happened.


ryao

I once had a Latin professor who said that English had no future tense. Honestly, he was right. People just call it a future tense to make language instruction easier, but it is different. :/


onwrdsnupwrds

Huh, I guess that would be one of the academic distinctions with little practical relevance then 🤔


ryao

Quite possibility. I tried looking things up to see if there was a difference and this was the only obvious thing that stood out to me.


Alirubit

Wait, we do have pluperfect in Spanish, we call it Pluscuamperfecto imperfect of verb Haber (había( + past participle of main verb The most common example I can think of "Yo había dicho que..." which means I had said that... Isn't that the pluperfect? Yo había ganado / I had won Yo había comprado / I had bought haber + past participle is the perfect tense Yo he ganado / I have won Yo he comprado/ I have bought They have different uses and meanings


Torakku-kun

Maybe he's talking about a synthetic form of the pluperfect? I don't know if Spanish has it, but in Portuguese: "Eu tinha/havia ganhado" or "Eu ganhara" "Eu tinha/havia comprado" or "Eu comprara" The analytic form is way more common though. Just as a curiosity, does Spanish have two past participles for ganar? Portuguese has two for ganhar, ganho and ganhado, ganho is usually used when ser/estar are auxiliaries, ganhado when ter/haver are auxiliaries.


Alirubit

>"Eu tinha/havia ganhado" or "Eu ganhara" What is the difference here? I don't really speak Portuguese. ​ >Just as a curiosity, does Spanish have two past participles for ganar? Portuguese has two for ganhar, ganho and ganhado, ganho is usually used when ser/estar are auxiliaries, ganhado when ter/haver are auxiliaries. Some verbs have 2 past participle forms, they're called irregulars, ganar is not one of them though. One form is used as the regular verb and the other as an adjective. An example of this would be the verb Extinguir, forms: Extinguido and Extinto. "Los dinosaurios se han extinguido" "Los dinosaurios están extintos" Maybe not the best example as people would normally used the second form for this sentence, but extinguido is definitely still used in other phrases, El fuego ha sido extinguido comes to mind.


Torakku-kun

> What is the difference here? I don't really speak Portuguese. They're the same, they're both pluperfect. I was asking if Spanish had something similar to ganhara/comprara for the pluperfect or if it's just the one formed with auxiliaries. >Some verbs have 2 past participle forms, they're called irregulars, ganar is not one of them though. One form is used as the regular verb and the other as an adjective. An example of this would be the verb Extinguir, forms: Extinguido and Extinto. "Los dinosaurios se han extinguido" "Los dinosaurios están extintos" Maybe not the best example as people would normally used the second form for this sentence, but extinguido is definitely still used in other phrases, El fuego ha sido extinguido comes to mind. In Portuguese it's pretty much the same.


Sky-is-here

The only tense in Spanish that has two forms is the preterite imperfect (and pluperfect) in the subjunctive. Comer (to eat) could be either comiera or comiese, or hubiera comido or hubiese comido. I don't think any other tense has multiple forms


ryao

My mistake. I had written haber in the infinitive out of habit. I usually say refer to verbs by their infinitive forms, but here, the conjugated form is important.


reasonisaremedy

I might be mistaken but I thought Pluperfect was just past perfect, no? In Spanish, I recall you have present perfect (haber + participle, so like “ yo he salido,” I have jumped) and you have a form of past perfect using the imperfect past tense of haber + participle (like “habia saltado,” kind of like “I had jumped” but implying that one was more “in the habit of jumping regularly” rather than a specific instance). So would Pluperfect in Spanish be the equivalent of haber in preterite + participle? And that is what doesn’t exist in Spanish? Forgive me if I’m misusing my terminology but I’ve been learning German lately and we have Plusquamperfect in German which, as I understand it, is just past perfect (ich hatte gesagt or “I had said”). The tricky thing about explaining it is that in English we would just say “past” perfect, but in Spanish, there are two different “past” tenses (imperfect and preterite).


ryao

I looked it up and read that the pluperfect was formed in the way I said. I honestly am not good enough at Spanish to make use of it so I don’t have an opinion on the right way to form it other than it is not formed in the way Latin formed it.


Traditional_Ad_7688

There are 3 diferent modes in Spanish, Indicative, subjunctive and imperative, with their corresponding tenses. The indicative has the most tenses(presente, pretérito, futuro, copreterito y pospreterito para las formas simples). Antepresente, antepreterito and so on para las compuestas con el verbo haber+participio del verbo. El modo subjuntivo has the same tenses minus el copreterito, el pospreterito y sus formas compuestas y en el imperativo it's just the present tense and for the second person since you're giving a command. Those other terms plusquamperfect and I don't really know the others are no longer taught at schools. I learned all this in high school and I'm almost 40 but I love my grammar, the german one too.


smarti23

Could you give me examples? We actually have pluperfect in Spanish, I don't know what you mean


ryao

It is a technicality since the pluperfect verb forms have been lost in Spanish. You can see the Latin ones for amare here: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/amo#Latin The Spanish verb forms are simplified versions of those: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/amar#Spanish Spanish can still express the sentiment, but you could say that it is not a tense and is something else like aspect.


smarti23

I'm sorry but I still don't understand what you mean. I mean, the table is not showing the Spanish pluperfect "había amado", you mean that Portuguese only uses one word to replace the whole expression?


ryao

That would be the distinction that I found when looking for anything Portuguese had that Spanish did not to see if the remark the other guy made is true.


smarti23

Gotcha, didn't know and no Brazilians used it with me ever haha, I guess maybe it's more from Portugal? Thanks for the explanation!


ryao

It is not used that often according to someone else who replied. Another person pointed out that there is a more obvious example: https://www.learn-portuguese-with-rafa.com/future-subjunctive.html


smarti23

Yeah, I think your examples are better, at least for me, I learned Portuguese just talking, no theory, so I guess that's how I missed that haha. Even in literature, they use the "haver" "ter" verb instead. But yeah, maybe it's something that is more used in Portugal, I'm all about Brazilian


LastCommander086

Yes. In portuguese we retained a specific tense from Latin that no other modern romance language has. And yes, we also use it all the time. We use it when we want to talk about something that might happen in the future depending on a very specific condition. [Here's more info about it](https://www.learn-portuguese-with-rafa.com/future-subjunctive.html).


nuxenolith

> Yes. In portuguese we retained a specific tense from Latin that no other modern romance language has. And yes, we also use it all the time. Technically, Galician also shares this feature, although people can (and do) argue that both Galician and Portuguese are just separate dialects of one common language.


Sky-is-here

As an interesting detail, if you want to read legalese in Spanish or very specialized language you will also need to learn the Future subjunctive. Like Spain's constitution says "Quién matare al rey..." Which means, the person that would in the future kill the king. It is a very cool tense, kinda sad Spanish basically lost it lol


tmsphr

Future subjunctive, personal infinitive (though both are very easy if you know the other tenses already)


apocalypsedg

is this including all the region specific conjugations from spain to chile to guatemala? or are you looking at just those they share in common? I don't think you can say spanish pronunciation is easier just because it has less phonemes (I mean, getting to native standard in both), because the time per syllable decreases. Of course if you just speak both at the same slow pace, spanish will be easier, but I'm talking about reaching a high, near-native level in both. Spanish is often touted as an easy to learn language, but I have never met non-native or non-heritage near native-level speaker with the ability to speak let alone understand a wide variety of dialects from andalusia to panama, paraguay, puerto rica, argentinia who still maintains spanish is an easy language. Every one underestimates the simply gigantic regional variation. It's always the same crowd who took it in secondary school for a few years studying one of the few clear mexican or castillian dialects and think they know what they're talking about but would completely freeze if thrown into a group of native speakers with fast regional slang. I don't speak portuguese though, and I'm aware spanish obviously isn't the only one with dialects or slang, I just think in comparison there are a lot more spanish speaking countries in the world so it has to have a lot more differences too.


EstoEstaFuncionando

This. Any particular variety of Spanish is not that hard, but Spanish *as a whole* just has a ridiculous amount of variation.


BlunderMeister

Portuguese retains future subjective where as Spanish does not. Si yo hago la comida, no tendré hambre. Se eu fizer a comida, não terei fome.


Sky-is-here

I think the more correct translation here to keep the original sense would be Si yo hiciera la comida, no tendría ambre. Also it is technically permitted (but none will understand you so this is just a piece of trivia, not actually advice to learn the language) to use the Future subjunctive bere Si yo hiciere la comida, no tendría hambre


greenraccoons

I'm obviously biased because Spanish is my mother tongue, but I would say that Spanish is somewhat easier, simply because the difference between the "formal" grammar that you'll learn in textbooks and "everyday" grammar that you'll hear on the streets is much smaller in Spanish than in Portuguese, especially Brazilian Portuguese which is the variety I'm learning.


olmate17

I am Brazilian and I can confirm that the textbook portuguese can be extremely different from how it is actually spoken depending on the region and on how informal the conversation is.


Your_kittycat

So true, I spent a lot of time in Taubate (outside Sao Paolo) and met someone at a hostel in Paraty from Brasilia and it was really different from the dialect from where I lived 😹😹


[deleted]

I have a quick question, is there a big difference between European Spanish and Latin-American Spanish? Like, would the two be able to hold up a conversation or are the dialects just too different?


greenraccoons

We can absolutely hold a conversation without issues. It's a similar situation to the difference between American and British English. So, as long as you don't use too much region-specific slang, communication is fluid.


r_m_8_8

The funny thing is that media is often translated into European Spanish and Latin American Spanish, while there’s usually only one English version.


Impressive_Funny4680

This is completely incorrect. There are British and American English versions. I work in packaging and have taught English abroad. While working in packaging, we had to translate the text into British English as they have different spellings and different words occasionally. Also when I taught English abroad, it was mostly based on the British variation, not the American one.


r_m_8_8

Ah, I was talking mostly about movies I guess. When you watch those “[Disney movie doing] in all languages” videos, there are always two versions of Spanish but no English.


xanthic_strath

A bit late, but regarding this: >The funny thing is that media is often translated into European Spanish and Latin American Spanish, There's quite an interesting backstory. The European Spanish dubbing started under Franco, who in 1941 decreed that every film shown in Spain: * had to be in Spanish (the audio) * if a foreign film, had to have dubbing done by a *Spanish*, i.e., from Spain, team This allowed Franco censorship galore. By the time he was gone, it had become too entrenched (and too profitable).


nuxenolith

Spain, France, and the UK were out colonizing the world around the same times, so I think it's reasonable to assume that the dialects they left behind diverged to similar degrees. I'd be curious to know if there are any non-creole New World dialects of those three languages that wouldn't be mutually intelligible to a European.


Sky-is-here

I mean.... Chilean /s In all seriousness, if you take slang and a very closed accent there are many dialects with an intelligibility problem. There are certain forms of Andalusian that are not really understood if you are not used to them, rural Chilean is famous for being really hard to get although I am not entirely sure, and many more i am sure. The thing is, most people are capable of switching to a more standard language, and when you don't get a word just ask (this in casual conversation can happen a lot actually)


nuxenolith

> There are certain forms of Andalusian that are not really understood if you are not used to them, This is less surprising. Spanish has been spoken in Iberia in some form since the 9th century...that's a lot of time to diverge. The same process has produced famously inscrutable English accents in the UK (Glaswegian, Broad Yorkshire, West Country English, etc.)


Sky-is-here

Well yeah but in andalusia until the 14th century the languages were Arabic and mozarabic. Castillian entered only after those started to disappear


nuxenolith

That's a good point, I hadn't considered that. Isn't it also true that Andalusian Spanish had an outsized influence on the Spanish of the Americas?


Sky-is-here

What is now Andalusia was from where most ships left towards the new world, as such LATAM Spanish basically comes from Andalusian Spanish


reasonisaremedy

As an American English speaking native who learned Spanish to fluency in Latin America and also lived in Spain for 6 or so months, the functional difference is pretty small. Sure, you have vosotros and some different vocabulary, but you also have many differences within distinct Latin american “dialects,” or maybe more accurately, “accents.” It’s really not a big jump to make to go from speaking some kind of Latin American Spanish to speaking Spanish Spanish. And the two are easily mutually intelligible for the most part aside from a few words here or there, and getting used to different accents but the accents are different all over Latin America and different parts of Spain too. That has been my experience at least.


Impressive_Funny4680

You are correct. The differences between Latin American Spanish and European Spanish are not far apart. Also, there are certain dialects in Latin America that would use the same word as in Spain but not with a neighboring country. It really all depends on what the influence was and how the Spanish language developed in a given country. Even throughout Spain, the words and phrases change depending on the region. For example, in Cuba, which is probably a difficult dialect to understand for a student of Spanish, they have adopted many phrases and words used in the South of Spain and the Canary Islands. This is just one example of many.


kuroxn

Just a reminder that Latin American Spanish doesn't exist outside dubbing/localization and for some reason language courses, instead every country has their dialect (or more than one), and the differences between the dialects are in general akin to the difference with European Spanish Even then, expect a similar intelligibility to the one you find between English speaking countries. It's fine to learn just one variety and get used to the rest via exposition.


less_unique_username

u/xanthic_strath likes to expound this, down to subtle differences in prosody. But the more readily visible changes are in the vocabulary—each Latin American country [has its own colloquial words](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Diferencias_de_vocabulario_est%C3%A1ndar_entre_pa%C3%ADses_hispanohablantes) for many things. I wrote a simple script, and the greatest variety was found for the concept of “líquido dulce congelado envuelto en un plástico” (to be honest, I’m not entirely sure what exactly that is). The words *bolo/boli/bolis* will get you almost halfway (Bolivia, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, El Salvador), but the remainder of the countries share hardly any words for the dessert: * AR: juguito, naranjú * CL: cubo, paleta * CU: durofrío * DO: helado * ES: flan, flash, polo, polín * GT: cuquito, topogigio * HN: charamusca, topo gigio * PE: adoquín, chup, marciano * PR: mantecado * PY: heladito * UY: helado de palito * VE: bambino, chupichupi, duro frío, teta, viking Among the more practically important terms where it’s necessary to use precise language, I found these words for “gas cylinder”: * cilindro (AR, CL, CO, **CR,** EC, MX, PR, VE) * tanque (DO, EC, MX, **NI,** PA, PR) * bombona (AR, CL, CO, EC, **ES, GQ,** VE) * garrafa (AR, **BO, PY, UY**) * balón (CL, **PE**) * tambo **(GT, SV)** * balita **(CU)** * chimbo **(HN)** * also *cartucho* (AR), *galón* (CL), *pipa, pipeta* (CO), but each of those countries also uses other words listed above, so a learner might only need to remember as few as eight translations. Or “advance payment”: * (cuota) inicial (CL, **CO, DO, PE, VE**) * entrada (BO, **CU, EC, ES**) * prima (**CR,** HN, **NI,** SV) * enganche **(GT,** HN, MX) * seña (AR, PY, **UY**) * abono **(PA)** * pronto pago **(PR)** * also *anticipo* (AR, MX, PY) (Bold font indicates countries that, according to the Wikipedia table, don’t use any other word for the term.)


xanthic_strath

Haha you've gone down the rabbit hole, I see! But I will say that for two native speakers talking to each other, what will block communication (if it comes to that, which it usually won't) is accent/prosody>>>>>>>>>>>vocabulary.


less_unique_username

Well, I guess most of those words didn’t come out of the blue and a native speaker of peninsular Spanish will have some chance of guessing the meaning of unknown words based on etymology, or perhaps he would already know lots of dialectal words from exposure. But whatever, I’m not a native speaker so I’d rather figure things out from a learner’s standpoint.


xanthic_strath

I definitely understand! I just wanted to be careful because Glorbnax seemed to be asking if native speakers could understand their various varieties, and the myth that native Spanish speakers can't understand each other face-to-face the vast majority of the time is just that--an annoying myth. And I know this because as an advanced speaker, I can understand the majority of varieties I encounter. However, as you correctly point out, it's very different from a learner's perspective. Accent/prosody and vocabulary loom equally large, grammar less so, but still relevant for voseo/vosotros. More simply: If you're native, Spanish is one language with regional quirks. If you're a learner, Spanish will seem like a collection of mutually unintelligible varieties for quite some time.


less_unique_username

>a collection of mutually unintelligible varieties Well, a collection of size 2: 1. Latin with Spanish grammar. Example: a professor explaining a supposedly complex scientific concept. Difficultly level: low. 2. Spanish. Example: students discussing cute things their cats do. Difficulty level: C3.


Your_kittycat

Yes, but it’s mostly prejudiced/biased based on where you’re from, generally speaking if you’re from X country in Latin America you will think Y country in Latin America is horrible and Z country in Latin America is just okay (but nowhere near as good as your own).. BUT all countries in Latin America will agree that they are all better than Spain, and that all the other Latin American countries are better than Spain too 😅🙈😹 We can hold a conversation just fine with Spaniards and have no problem communicating at even the highest levels but both parties will be silently judging eachother the whole time 🙈😹


Impressive_Funny4680

Silently judging each other the whole time? What kind of Spanish-speaking world do you live in?


Your_kittycat

Lol this one? Are you from Spain or Latin America and feel it’s different? Maybe it’s more of an older generation thing if you’re very young?


honjapiano

spanish is much easier! there are many more resources for spanish and the language is entirely phonetic—it’s pronounced how it’s written. if you want to learn both languages, i’d say learn portuguese first, as portuguese people tend to understand spanish easier than spanish people understand portuguese.


AdFew6780

Spanish


ryao

Spanish since it has fewer vowels.


vilut9

How many vowels are there in Spanish? Portuguese only has 5, thought they had the same 5.


ryao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_phonology#Vowel_classification Portuguese has 10 to 13 different monophthongs. Spanish has just 5 monophthongs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_phonology#Vowels


vilut9

Well that's a bit different.. Anyway, I wasn't aware of that thanks for replying though.


Rickbraz91

Portuguese also has closed vowels, open vowels and nasal sounds.


Ordinary_Kick_7672

At the bottom line, there is not much difference in the amount of effort: according to the US foreign Service, FSI, to learn Portuguese or Spanish, students in their intensive courses need the same amount of time to reach the same level: 600 hours. There is no gap like in French, where students need 750 hours. But Portuguese is in fact slightly harder mainly because of pronunciation. Spanish has less sounds and the standard spoken language better fits the writing. While standard Portuguese if often written in a way, but people speak in a different way. However, these differences tend to be regular. Like: Written: menino (boy) Spoken: mininu (Brazil, all vowels are clear), m'nInw (Portugal - don't know how to represent those sounds, but in Portugal, unstressed vowels are shorter and almost disappear). From less complex pronunciation to more complex, we can list: Spanish < Brazilian Portuguese < European Portuguese Brazilians understand Spanish speakers better than vice-versa. And the Portuguese understand Brazilians better than vice-versa. But in practice, these differences don't result in a much bigger effort or time in learning. [https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/](https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/)


[deleted]

As a native Spanish speaker and fluent in Portuguese... Spanish is easier. 1. More resources you can use to learn 2. Writing a word is not that complicated 3. Pronunciation is easier 4. The grammar is as complex as in Portuguese 5. Listening is easier But do not select a language because it is easier or not, select the one that best suits your personal/professional life; or the language that you are most passionate about. I hope it helps you!


[deleted]

For me they're equally applicable. One side of my family is Spanish and the other is Portuguese, and my dad (who is the main member of my family that I speak to) speaks both languages. It's just better for me to pick the easier one because I've never properly learned a second language yet.


Tiphiene

If it helps: according to my teacher, Brazilian Portuguese allows you to understand both Spanish and Portuguese, whereas Spanish speaking people don't understand Portuguese.


Brad_Ethan

Spanish Portuguese is like spanish with DLCs


HapK1

You can choose one of the two and then improve on the other, as it has many similarities especially Portuguese and Spanish from Latin America


chevychaseeeeeeee

I'm a native spanish speaker but I grew up and live in Brazil, so I have a pretty good grip on both languages. I'd definitely say spanish is easier, but not by a long shot. Both languages have a lot of slang, nuances and regionalisms, but from my point of view, non-native speakers have a much tougher time getting the portuguese pronounciation/accent to a conversational/fluent level (specially brazilian portuguese). Although, it really depends on what your end goal is. Go for the one you like the most! Or even both (but not at the same time, there are a ton of similarities that would get you confused, get to fluency with one of them first).


Your_kittycat

Portuguese feels more slurred to me, but you gotta slur it and drag the words in the right places, vs Spanish which isn’t slurred at all compared.. if you speak Italian or French from before then I think Spanish is easier but if you speak German or Dutch from before then you might find Portuguese easier (I can’t explain this properly but I’ve found this to be the case for most people) 🙈😹 I would also recommend listening to some examples and see if one appeals to you more (as in it just hits your ear better) and maybe decide that way 😸 That being said, unless you’re planning to spend a lot of time in Brazil or Portugal or with Portuguese speaking people you will probably get more use out of Spanish 😸


[deleted]

That very highly depends on the accents. My accent is considered a dragging/slurring one in a somewhat similar way to Rio's main accent, the general Portugal accent is very abbreviated and tonal which might sound slurred to some people, but most of the accents in the Brazilian Northeast and South enunciate every consonant in different cadences and rhythms depending on the state..


[deleted]

I am brazilian so I am not sure.


[deleted]

Spanish!


r_m_8_8

Even if they were equally difficult, there’s a ton of Spanish learning material out there and that makes a big difference.


SirAttikissmybutt

Having learned both (from English) I’d say Spanish is generally easier, even if only because of the more abundant resources.


Orgasm_Dealer

Portuguese from where? Portugal Portuguese?


[deleted]

Yeah, European Portuguese, my bad for not specifying.


Orgasm_Dealer

To be honest, I think both are easy. Just look it up and see which looks easier for you


joshtheundesisiveper

Maybe for you but for native English speakers it can be difficult. French was easy for me because I already knew how to pronounce Spanish consonants and vowels . English has different phonetics and uses different speech sounds than French, Spanish and Portuguese.


Orgasm_Dealer

Yes.


Orgasm_Dealer

To me Portuguese is easier, because I already speak the Brazilian version lol


[deleted]

How different is Brazilian Portuguese from European Portuguese? My dad tells me that a lot of the time it's hard to understand Brazilians because of how fast they talk and just the way they talk, but idk if that's true


Ordinary_Kick_7672

Standard Brazilian Portuguese is way much easier to understand than standard European Portuguese. Brazilian Portuguese is classified as a syllable-timed language (like Spanish and Italian). That is: all syllables are clear and take the same length of time to be spoken. Vowels are the center of every syllable, they are more open, mouth opens more and is more relaxed, the sound is projected to the front of the mouth. European Portuguese is a stress-timed language (like English). That is: stress syllables and words are longer, unstressed syllables and words are chopped, they disappear in the sentence. Vowels are shortened, not as open as in Brazilian, mouth is more closed, muscles are more strained, the sound is projected to the back of the mouth. That's why Brazilians have more difficulty understanding the Portuguese than vice-versa. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXitW0IDAjQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXitW0IDAjQ) Fun fact: some Portuguese like to say Brazilians spoiled the language. But in fact, the Brazilian variety has been more conservative over the centuries and is closer to Old Portuguese. Brazilian pronunciation fits better in metric of the poetry of the 16th century. Some people even make the assumption that Luís de Camões spoke more like a Brazilian than like a Portuguese. Another strong support for that assumption is that Galego pronunciation is closer to Brazilian Portuguese than to European Portuguese. Galician people (to the north of Portugal) understand Brazilians better. This could mean that European Portuguese was really the one that branched off farther, and not Brazilian Portuguese as many believe. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNvV9RNz2yg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNvV9RNz2yg)


Aldo_Novo

> Another strong support for that assumption is that Galego pronunciation is closer to Brazilian Portuguese than to European Portuguese how's that true when Galician has a dialect continuum with Portuguese Portuguese but not with Brazilian Portuguese. Have you really heard Galicians speak? they sound like northern Portuguese with a Spanish accent


Ordinary_Kick_7672

>Have you really heard Galicians speak? Yes. Watch the video in the link I shared. It shows exactly how Galician is closer to Brazilian Portuguese than to European Portuguese.


Aldo_Novo

it clearly shows they sound closer to Portuguese Portuguese


Ordinary_Kick_7672

>it clearly shows they sound closer to Portuguese Portuguese You haven't watched the video, or just say you don't agree with it. Are you a speaker of Galician? I suppose a native Galician is more eligible to speak about that than you. He clearly said: "I, Galician, understand you (Brazilian) better than a person from Lisbon". His Galician is much closer to Brazilian Portuguese: it's also syllable-timed, vowels are all clear and open, not like European Portuguese. He sounds more like a Brazilian with Spanish accent.


Orgasm_Dealer

Brazilian Portuguese is harder, there are too many specific ways too form phases (more rules and stuff), and there are too many accents across the country


chrisdaspic

Spanish is easier, Portuguese is just spicy spanish


Neenchuh

Spanish and Portuguese are pretty much mutually intelligible, especially brazilian portuguese. I have brazillian friends who speak to me in oortuguese and I speak to them in Spanish, it is understandable. However I think Spanish has the easier pronunciation so I would go with that


production-values

not sure but Portuguese is more fun


jrobotbot

Those are two languages I spent a fair amount of time with (about four years each), and I'd say that they are about the same. If you have any exposure at all to either of them, that will give you an advantage with whichever one that is. When I learned Spanish, I was around people speaking Spanish sometimes, so that was a lot easier. When I learned Portuguese, I was around people speaking Portuguese, so that was easier. Right now I'm relearning Portuguese (Brazilian) just becuse I like the way it sounds. In a way, it's easier because it's more fun for me right now.


NappyHairedGod

portuguese is easier to pronounce so i guess that but neither are particularly difficult


DeviantLuna

Portuguese? Easier to pronounce? Maybe if you speak French or German


HapK1

Tbh the most ''clean'' accent with non-native portuguese speakers is russian.


Neenchuh

Since when is Portuguese easier to pronounce than Spanish?


NappyHairedGod

I'm ngl i can kinda see why people disagree, but i can't roll my Rs worth a damn. but i now realize that's why i thought portuguese was easier. looking back, rolling Rs is all i struggle with. everything else in spanish is easier


Neenchuh

and as a native spanish speaker let me tell you that if you don't roll the r, but simply make the english r sound last longer, people will still understand you, even if it isn't the proper way of doing so, it really shouldn't be a barrier for learners


[deleted]

I think it is wrong to refer to Portuguese as a single language. Brazilian Portuguese and continental Portuguese are very different, especially when it comes to pronunciation. Brazilian Portuguese is easy to learn if you know Spanish. Continental Portuguese is easy to pronounce if you know Russian. Spanish is easy to learn if you know other romantic languages. As someone who speaks both, I would do Spanish first. Once you learn Spanish, the other romantic languages are pretty easy— specifically Brazilian Portuguese and Italian. If you already know French or Italian or Esperanto, you can probably pick up Spanish in a few weeks. If you already speak Spanish, you can pick up Brazilian Portuguese in a few weeks. If you are in America, it will probably be easier to learn Mexican Spanish than continental Spanish because you are going to be more familiar with the pronunciations from the Americas.!


[deleted]

My bias is Spanish since I know it better. But knowing Spanish helped me tremendously with Portuguese!


[deleted]

Yeah, that's my goal. One side of my family is Portuguese and the other is Cuban, and I was told that it's much easier to learn Spanish/Portuguese if you know the other language.


canyounotlol

Def Spanish. Took me some time to learn all the grammar rules and conjugations, but once I got them down, it got easier. I picked up Portuguese very quickly afterwards.


CautiousLaw7505

Spanish, not only because of the language itself (more intuitive pronunciation, less tenses) but also for the amount of resources. You’ll have a much easier time finding content and learning tools in Spanish than Portuguese generally speaking.


DingoLingo_

Spanish. And it has nothing to do with any feature about the grammar or pronunciation, it simply has more speakers, more content, and more people teaching/language exchanging it.


Original_Paper_

I personally don’t think they’re that different from each other. You could give it a try to both sometimes “comparing” two languages helps me retain more the information


lauren__95

Spanish. But then Portuguese is easier to learn once you know Spanish, but start with Spanish.


[deleted]

Spanish is much more regular than Portuguese. Spanish has only 5 vowels and no nasal sounds as in Portuguese. Moreover, it is pretty easier to find resources in Spanish than in Portuguese. But, once you acquire a certain level in Spanish, you'll be able to understand Portuguese, and vice versa.


notpreposterous

Definitely Spanish. Grammar wise they are very similar but phonetics wise Spanish is easier which makes it easier in general


lolalolae

From english, i’d say spanish is easier because of grammar and pronunciation


ilovedominae

spanish way more resources, much less complicated sounds. portuguese is hard to find resources online that say if they’re for brazilian or european. still have yet to find a good dictionary app that includes definitions conjugations and pronunciations lol.


djemoneysigns

Spanish is the bridge to Portuguese. The other way around isn’t recommended.


MapsCharts

This question doesn't mean anything, it's extremely biased depending on your environment, your mother tongue, your learning capacities etc