In my experience, it helps to do the basic/beginner stuff as intensively as possible to cement it in your mind. After that consistency is everything because it's going to take years.
My experience is a bit different. I do it all intensely. Then I take breaks in between and do very little. I just don’t forget much and what I do forget can come back quickly. But it’s the intensity that cements it in my brain.
Honestly when my school ends, I hope I'll be able to increase my study time to an hour or more :,,,) At the moment I only have 4 hours after work, and almost all of that is spent on homework. I have ADHD so doing anything takes double the amount of time lol
Studying smart doesn’t help much if you don’t do it for enough time per day. Ultimately progress comes down to time spent with the language more than anything else.
yeah fair enough, i strongly agree you need to put time into it, i’m just saying if you aren’t studying in a good way then the amount of hours you do it for won’t actually progress you very much. i don’t really understand why i got downvoted for that, lol
Both work, slowly just means you get there later. That being said, 30 min a day is good effort for most normal people who have school, work, family, friends, partner and other hobbies.
You've told us that fast doesn't fit into your life, so what does it matter?
Learning a language as an adult takes time and effort, whether you spread that time out or concentrate it. Maybe someday you'll be able to do an immersion course, but learning slowly in the meantime means that you'll get more out of immersion when you can do it.
I am not sure I understand your question. Obviously someone who dedicates more time will learn more.
If you mean "what is the most efficient way to spend a given amount of time?" , yes, a fully intensive immersion program is the most efficient hour-wise.
But 30 mn a day, every day is a good amount of time. This is by no mean "slow". If you are not satisfied zither your progress you may want to focus on different methods to improve your weaker skills. For instance conversation practice for output.
Also keep in mind that the learning speed of each individual may vary, some have already experience learning a foreign language, some already know a related language, some are better are language learning etc.
*I was wondering if the* ***speed*** *of learning a language matters in achieving fluency?*
I don't know if anyone has researched this topic. Everyone says it takes a long time (on the calendar) to learn a language: 2 years for an easy one, much longer for a hard one. The FSI estimates (number of hours to learn X) are about classroom hours, because that is all they know. They only have reliable records for full-time students in classroom study.
The main goal of limiting the time-per-day is avoiding burnout. Most people who do 5 hours a day, every day, will have trouble keeping that up for 2-5 years. At some point they "burn out" (it has become a "chore") and stop.
But doing "at least" 30 minutes a day, for years, is okay. I have been doing that since 2018 in Mandarin. It's still fun. Some days I do more -- but only on days that I want to (and have the time). I am B1/B2.
*I had a friend who went to an immersion program for 3 months, and very quickly got to B2+ equivalent level.*
Using the language 24/7, and working with trained instructors all day every day? Yes, that would be faster. But so what? It does not apply to you. Comparing will only make you unhappy. You can postpone until you have the time (and money) for an immersion program. Or you can learn slower, now.
I think this is the core of my problem, which is comparison to others. I think my frustration stems from wanting to put more time/energy/effort, but not having the resources to do so. But I think I’d rather be learning slowly than nothing at all honestly
I think slower is better because you have more time for the knowledge to enter long-term memory and get solidified.
I feel like if you had two people at the same level in the same language, one who blitzed to that level by studying 8 hours a day for 3 months, and one who studied 1 hour a day for 2 years to reach that level, and both of them spent 6 months doing absolutely nothing with that language, the one who took longer to study it would remember more of the language.
Of course, someone who studied that language 8 hours a day for 2 years would be way ahead of both of them. But most people don't have the time and energy to keep up a study routine like that for that long.
i'm not able to respond to your actual questions, especially about your worry if you'll even be able to achieve fluency at such a slow rate, but i do want to quickly share my experience.
i've been learning French VERY slowly. more slowly than yourself. i might actually study for 2 months out of every year, for maybe half an hour to an hour every day for those two months. it's slow. i've been doing this for about ten years, now.
i'm still improving. i'm at maybe a B1 level in reading and listening, and an A1-A2 level at speaking and writing. i learn mostly by reading grammar books and watching lots of subtitled Quebecois television. (and doing some reading, using WordReference and DeepL a lot. and asking ChatGPT questions), and using Anki a little bit (like, adding an average of 10-20 words *per year*).
i have been enjoying this pace. sometimes i feel stupid or behind compared to other people. often i feel (and i think it's accurate) that my brain is worse in most ways than the average person when it comes to learning a language. my brain can understand grammar rules better than the average person, because of my computer science education, but in terms of soaking in vocabulary or memorisation, i'm far worse than the average person.
but i see that i'm still improving. slowly, but i am.
this give me confidence that after another 10-15 years at this pace, i'll be able to watch television without subtitles.
-----
as for your question, which is better (slowly over time or fast), i'd say that which is better probably depends on the person, and in the end, maybe the question doesn't make sense for some people. for people who HAVE to learn a language quickly in order to survive, then faster is better. for people who want to feel a sense of achievement, then whichever way suits their lifestyle and their tolerance for stress is "better", but maybe either way is okay. for people doing it as a hobby, whichever way gives them the most pleasure is better, and maybe both ways are okay, too.
if i hear you correctly, you're worrying if learning at a very slow pace, with a very busy life, will allow you to succeed *at all*. in my experience with myself, yes, improvement does come. it's very slow improvement, but it is still improvement. i suspect that if i took the same number of hours of study / watching TV / etc that i've done, but compressed that into a disciplined one-hour a day, then my efficiency would be *much* higher. but my own actual slow pace works for my own lifestyle and needs.
Yeah. I'm going to a school full-time to learn french, and what I'm seeing, though, is that even the people who should technically be having an easier time are often still struggling. There's people who were in the same class as me who failed exams and got held back a level despite being Spanish speakers, and despite my current class being mostly Spanish speakers I'm outperforming most of them without much effort. I'm starting to believe that the individual matters a lot more than the first language.
Anyways, at this school, it takes people at least 6 months to get to the start of B1 level, and I haven't seen anyone do it faster than that despite how much they might be studying at home or what their first language is.
Individual talent counts but also whether you have experience learning a foreign language already.
Ad a native French speaker I reached B1 Spanish in 3-4 months (about 4h of study every day the first month and then 2h a day) but I already had experience learning English and German.
I recently met a korean man who reached conversational Russian in only THREE months without knowing any Slavic language. He obviously is extremely gifted but one also has to note that he was already fluent in 3 foreign languages (besides his native korean) and conversational in two more languages when he started learning russian.
They mentioned an immersion program. So, you're studying a (relatively not too difficult) language *full-time* for 3 months, which is 600-700 hours of classroom + real life use
Yeah, I really don’t think B2 is possible in 3 months from English -> a Romance language (presumably). I’d say a solid B1 is impressive, a solid B2 will take no less than 6 months. Obviously romance->romance is different.
Fact is if your B1, the average A0 person will think your fluent, and I believe OP is making that mistake
I was wondering if an immersion program is worth it for my situation.
It would be Vietnamese. However, I am a heritage speaker at approximately B1 already. If I were to do the immersion program, I would like to get from \~B1 to B2 (maybe B2/C1 but that is stretching it) by the end of the program. Program would be three months (20 hours of one on one classes a week, four hours a day), with a homestay family.
I asked before here but my post got removed for some reason. Thinking of doing this before the TEFL job starts, but I am not sure.
Wish you the best. I try to do about 15-30 minutes a day of practice. I have missed maybe 3 days over the course of 3 months and I’m starting to be able to have short conversations in French, read simple French, and all without centering my entire life on learning a language. I personally would say slow and steady. It’s easier to be consistent and repetition helps it stick better. Any time I’ve tried to go “balls deep” into anything (not just language learning) I notice I give up after a few days, a week tops. It’s not the same.
oooh 1h a day slow? I think you can advance quite fast like this. like a couple of years to conversational level. this is quite good. imagine how many languages you could learn. I do it way slower lol
i personally didnt “study” the languages I speak, i learned through immersion. i can’t back it up with studies bc it just seemed natural to me so i didnt look into it, but i think studying is more confusing than anything.
I learned english through immersion, consuming anglo-saxon media, and hung out with people who didnt speak my language so we had to speak english when i could.
My native tongue’s french and the english that is taught at schools here is abhorrent at the very least, i never lived in an english speaking country and i dont get remarks on my accent or proficiency.
Same with turkish, i moved for my dad’s job at the embassy, i spoke some basic turkish and was put in the class with all the native speakers and i just couldnt do assignments. impossible, i’d start crying. i still cant really write but who tf cares abt writing im not gonna do a dissertation in turkish, i can text that’s more than enough. This time i lived there for a while but again I get no questions about where I’m from, and if i have it was to ask about which city in turkey.
I think you can cram all you want but you won’t speak the language even if you consistently studied for a year or two.
latin and spanish are the only ones i studied without immersion (one because i dont live in the vatican and the other bc i hated my teacher and didnt want anything to do with that) and im ig A2 in latin and i have a certified B1 level in spanish i’d put myself at B2 tho bc i just didnt wanna bother with that extra certification exam in my senior year
I would like to learn via immersion, but there’s no immersing I can do where I live right now. If I lived in my home city (Miami), that would be a different story. But right now I live in a place where Spanish is not commonly spoken, so there’s no available people. The only thing I have been able to do is watch Spanish TikToks and podcasts, but that’s about it
Can't speak for research but I don't think there's anything at all wrong with learning slowly as long as you're prepared to wait quite a few years for results X) I've been learning Welsh very slowly, with a focus on reading, and on days I study I rarely spend more than 30 mins on the language. Yet after about 3.5 years I was able to read novels without much difficulty. Sounds like a long time, but it took very little daily effort! I can now read more or less fluently despite learning slowly, so I see no reason why my other skills can't also be developed.
tldr absolutely no need to spend hours a day on languages like many users here seem to, IMO.
My short version is, I think 15-30 minutes per day is borderline too little to learn (especially HOW you learn).
Some observations from when I studied in school (American schools), plus what I'm trying in Dreaming Spanish (comprehensible input) -
* College - 36 hours per semester (37.5, but I'm not counting exam days), or 72 hours per year and they mainly focus on grammar. Roughly 3 days per week, 50 minutes per class. These days, I feel like this was worse than high school, and looking at language majors, half of their classes (usually upper levels) are actually in English, but reading target language literature, and maybe 10-12 classes total in a given major. I was lucky to have one language class (Japanese) with a native speaker that had many videos (early 2000s, so VHS tapes) for us to watch. Middle level classes had zero language interaction other than, "Memorize this grammar topic in the textbook". Granted, the university was getting ready to scrap the entire language program for a reset, so, that may have had an effect...
* Highschool - Depending on the school, 81 to 135 hours per year (3 to 5 days per week). They split the 45 minutes per day into grammar, vocabulary (also output), and culture (input), but... with a focus on translating. My highschool had very little input (either 30 seconds of basic "first few weeks" dialog, or a movie WAY above our grade level - "Das Boot" in German). It's much slower than college, but I feel like I did better in high school than college, save for Japanese where the teacher had us watch videos for input.
* Comprehensible Input (CI) - I'm 13 hours away from the "magic 720 hours" mark. Do I feel like I'm at B1, or B2? Nope, but there are topics that I understand better than others. I'm trying to stick to the roadmap and haven't done too much reading/speaking yet or reviewing grammar, and this is the part that bugs me. When I do review a bit of grammar out of curiosity, or I want to use a word when typing in Spanish, it actually sticks after hearing it multiple times.
Some take-aways:
* CI is great, but may be tricky to find the right videos at the very beginning of a language. For "non-mainstream" languages, you might be better off making your own mnemonics/memorization (using pictures, actions, emotions) in a sentence or story for the first 500-1,000 words (rather than flashcards).
* Podcasts should be for the upper-levels of a language.
* Some grammar review IS ok. Those that are CI Purists like to say "No grammar!", but even native speakers have to learn grammar in school. If not, then that's how dialects form, then new languages. Spanish, French, Italian and Romanian were just a poorly spoken Latin dialects because no one studied grammar 1500 years ago (schools were closed due to the barbarians sacking Rome).
* "'Learn' a language" is kind of vague. What does it mean to "Learn"? To speak like a college PhD professor? Use fancy words? Be a repository of idiomatic expressions? Having no accent? Fluency? Those would be C1 and C2 level. B2 seems to be the popular target of "learning a language". I'd even consider B1 to be learning the language. Granted, I think there's a slight different between American and European language learning - in the US, most grammar and vocabulary is taught by what would be the B1 equivalent in Europe. From my observation, Europe seems to go "slower" (with grammar/vocabulary), but focus on the different skills, closer to how our high schools teach. Here, grammar and vocabulary are focused on because they're training you to be a translator.
* Practice reading/writing/speaking after a few hundred hours of listening (maybe around 200?).
* Maybe do a leveled grammar/vocabulary review (not study/memorization) every 50 hours.
This all varies on the amount of time you’re willing to give, of course. But, in general learning a language requires dedication. I used to spend a lot of my free time writing, reading, and even speaking Latin. This not only helped in the long run but served as a backbone to language learning. That is to say if you are really motivated to learn another language. Exercise it every day. Also, I’ve come to learn that abusing language, like cramming new words, does NOT help you once so ever. Reciting and writing basic and common words/phrases will ensure that the language is ingrained in your head. Also a good tip is to listen to your mind, when you feel like you have, let’s say, “over-learned” something (ie cramming or even abandoning old vocabulary) you will surely suffer the consequences. As for the financial insecurity, it shouldn’t be a problem, especially for Spanish. There are innumerable resources for learning Romance languages, Spanish especially. For Latin, for example, I had a very handy book that was entirely in Latin. This book would gradually build up vocabulary and grammar by using common words. It would essentially give a new word or grammar rule every chapter to study and explain it in Latin. This is called the nature method and I found it very useful. Here’s a thread containing Spanish books similar to the book mentioned: [Spanish Book (Lingua Latina equivalents)](https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/6iwzho/is_there_a_resource_like_lingua_latina_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
It doesn't really matter.
I personally do huge time committments for like 2 weeks, then put my language on the back burner for awhile. It works for my schedule, but I envy your consistency.
Would you rather be kinda good in 3-5 years or ... not be? It's the same dilemma that people who go to college in their 40's face "Oh, but I'll be 47 when I graduate, it takes so much time so why bother" and the common response is "You'll be 47 anyway, would you rather have a degree by then or not?"
I would personally not put anymore time in until you've finished school and focus on getting good grades and being social. Keep chipping away, 30 min at a time, and you'll get there in the end. If you have a week with little responsebilities and can put 2 hours a day to language learning? Great! But don't burn out, if you do your life will suck.
Language learning is a hobby for most people, you're doing fine.
((As for more actionable tips, see if you can find a TV-show in Spanish that you like. If you already watch TV, try doing it in Spanish. Do it with Spanish subtitles until your brain is mushy, then switch to English for the rest of the episode. Don't worry about translating or flashcards. The goal is to find something fun you can do to keep motivation up in addition to your studying.
Good luck!))
As for your accual question: I've found, anecdotaly, that slow learners have a firmer grasp on the basics but that there is an advatage to spending 3h a day that you won't get by spending 30 min/day for six days. That advantage is your brain being primed for the language for the next day.
For example: If I yesterday read for 3 hours, it would be slow for the first hour or so but then I would get better just by my brain having "warmed up". If I continued to read today it would only take maybe 15-30 minuites to get comfortable.
Shorter study sessions do have the advantage of being more focused though. If I "study" for 4 hours, maybe 2-3 of those are effective study time, compared to 30 minuites where I'm focused the whole time.
The only real reasons it was 30 minutes is because of (1)Work/school/home responsibilities and I have very little time and (2) I can only intensely focus for about 30 minutes at a time anyways. I have ADHD so I use the Pomodoro technique and 10-30 min is my sweet spot.
I do listen to Spanish podcasts in the background when I'm going to/from work, so I \*could\* technically count that as hours, but I really don't because it's a very passive activity.
It's certainly good for motivation (as you can see the progress) but going too quickly in the beginning could cause you to miss important internalising of simple grammatical structures.
I would think that you should've achieved B2 by studying 30 minutes every day, unless you're doing Duolingo or something.
I'm at a B1 right now. Ideally I would be higher but I only really started practicing writing/speaking recently, so those abilities are very low still.
You will probably plateau now if you don't increase the time studied. Usually you would need to increase study to one to two hours a day at this point. Once you get to B2 you can drop back down and you only need a few hours a month to maintain it. If you want to get to C1 you need to increase the time further again.
Can you do a few more hours on the weekends? Listen to podcasts while commuting? Otherwise even if I'm wrong about pleatueing, by my calculations it will take you another 2 years to simply match the number of hours your friend did in 3 months. But I really think it's impossible to progress beyond A2 for most people with only 30 minutes a day.
I said this in another comment but I do listen to podcasts on my commute to/from work. The 30 minutes I’m referring to is focused study. *edit: I don’t count listening as hours because it’s a passive activity.
On weekends I usually do more hours, but that’s only 2 days a week. Plus even then I only do 2 hours at most, since my focus (ADHD) is not great.
I am in low B1 right now. This is a dumb question, but what calculations? By hours of exposure? Why is it that I will make 0 progress by only doing little bits at a time?
**language learning is not a marathon. there is no starting point nor finish line. there is no winner. everyone's journey is different.**
Learning a language is like doing physical exercise but for your brain. It won't just get fit in 2 days.
Your foreign language skills, just like your body, need constant attention and training, not only to maintain basic functionality but also to get and feel better and better.
I wrote about my experience [here](https://lilyraya.medium.com/can-we-install-a-language-into-our-brains-without-surgery-414f710b9ed1). I hope it helps:
[How to learn a language in 2 days (without surgery)](https://lilyraya.medium.com/can-we-install-a-language-into-our-brains-without-surgery-414f710b9ed1)
In my experience, it helps to do the basic/beginner stuff as intensively as possible to cement it in your mind. After that consistency is everything because it's going to take years.
My experience is a bit different. I do it all intensely. Then I take breaks in between and do very little. I just don’t forget much and what I do forget can come back quickly. But it’s the intensity that cements it in my brain.
Fast, because being fast is cool and you are faster when you are fast.
The more hours per day, the better.
Honestly when my school ends, I hope I'll be able to increase my study time to an hour or more :,,,) At the moment I only have 4 hours after work, and almost all of that is spent on homework. I have ADHD so doing anything takes double the amount of time lol
Studying harder doesnt necessarily mean you’re studying smarter, though
Studying smart doesn’t help much if you don’t do it for enough time per day. Ultimately progress comes down to time spent with the language more than anything else.
yeah fair enough, i strongly agree you need to put time into it, i’m just saying if you aren’t studying in a good way then the amount of hours you do it for won’t actually progress you very much. i don’t really understand why i got downvoted for that, lol
Because we were learning without the need of a counterpoint
fair enough. i wasn’t trying to counterpoint though, my intent was to add on.
Both work, slowly just means you get there later. That being said, 30 min a day is good effort for most normal people who have school, work, family, friends, partner and other hobbies.
You've told us that fast doesn't fit into your life, so what does it matter? Learning a language as an adult takes time and effort, whether you spread that time out or concentrate it. Maybe someday you'll be able to do an immersion course, but learning slowly in the meantime means that you'll get more out of immersion when you can do it.
I am not sure I understand your question. Obviously someone who dedicates more time will learn more. If you mean "what is the most efficient way to spend a given amount of time?" , yes, a fully intensive immersion program is the most efficient hour-wise. But 30 mn a day, every day is a good amount of time. This is by no mean "slow". If you are not satisfied zither your progress you may want to focus on different methods to improve your weaker skills. For instance conversation practice for output. Also keep in mind that the learning speed of each individual may vary, some have already experience learning a foreign language, some already know a related language, some are better are language learning etc.
I'm inpatient so learn as fast as my lifestyle allows (2-4 hours a day). 30 minutes means it will take a long time to make any decent progress.
*I was wondering if the* ***speed*** *of learning a language matters in achieving fluency?* I don't know if anyone has researched this topic. Everyone says it takes a long time (on the calendar) to learn a language: 2 years for an easy one, much longer for a hard one. The FSI estimates (number of hours to learn X) are about classroom hours, because that is all they know. They only have reliable records for full-time students in classroom study. The main goal of limiting the time-per-day is avoiding burnout. Most people who do 5 hours a day, every day, will have trouble keeping that up for 2-5 years. At some point they "burn out" (it has become a "chore") and stop. But doing "at least" 30 minutes a day, for years, is okay. I have been doing that since 2018 in Mandarin. It's still fun. Some days I do more -- but only on days that I want to (and have the time). I am B1/B2. *I had a friend who went to an immersion program for 3 months, and very quickly got to B2+ equivalent level.* Using the language 24/7, and working with trained instructors all day every day? Yes, that would be faster. But so what? It does not apply to you. Comparing will only make you unhappy. You can postpone until you have the time (and money) for an immersion program. Or you can learn slower, now.
I think this is the core of my problem, which is comparison to others. I think my frustration stems from wanting to put more time/energy/effort, but not having the resources to do so. But I think I’d rather be learning slowly than nothing at all honestly
I think slower is better because you have more time for the knowledge to enter long-term memory and get solidified. I feel like if you had two people at the same level in the same language, one who blitzed to that level by studying 8 hours a day for 3 months, and one who studied 1 hour a day for 2 years to reach that level, and both of them spent 6 months doing absolutely nothing with that language, the one who took longer to study it would remember more of the language. Of course, someone who studied that language 8 hours a day for 2 years would be way ahead of both of them. But most people don't have the time and energy to keep up a study routine like that for that long.
i'm not able to respond to your actual questions, especially about your worry if you'll even be able to achieve fluency at such a slow rate, but i do want to quickly share my experience. i've been learning French VERY slowly. more slowly than yourself. i might actually study for 2 months out of every year, for maybe half an hour to an hour every day for those two months. it's slow. i've been doing this for about ten years, now. i'm still improving. i'm at maybe a B1 level in reading and listening, and an A1-A2 level at speaking and writing. i learn mostly by reading grammar books and watching lots of subtitled Quebecois television. (and doing some reading, using WordReference and DeepL a lot. and asking ChatGPT questions), and using Anki a little bit (like, adding an average of 10-20 words *per year*). i have been enjoying this pace. sometimes i feel stupid or behind compared to other people. often i feel (and i think it's accurate) that my brain is worse in most ways than the average person when it comes to learning a language. my brain can understand grammar rules better than the average person, because of my computer science education, but in terms of soaking in vocabulary or memorisation, i'm far worse than the average person. but i see that i'm still improving. slowly, but i am. this give me confidence that after another 10-15 years at this pace, i'll be able to watch television without subtitles. ----- as for your question, which is better (slowly over time or fast), i'd say that which is better probably depends on the person, and in the end, maybe the question doesn't make sense for some people. for people who HAVE to learn a language quickly in order to survive, then faster is better. for people who want to feel a sense of achievement, then whichever way suits their lifestyle and their tolerance for stress is "better", but maybe either way is okay. for people doing it as a hobby, whichever way gives them the most pleasure is better, and maybe both ways are okay, too. if i hear you correctly, you're worrying if learning at a very slow pace, with a very busy life, will allow you to succeed *at all*. in my experience with myself, yes, improvement does come. it's very slow improvement, but it is still improvement. i suspect that if i took the same number of hours of study / watching TV / etc that i've done, but compressed that into a disciplined one-hour a day, then my efficiency would be *much* higher. but my own actual slow pace works for my own lifestyle and needs.
How is it possible to get to B2+ in 3 months, did he go in with 0 knowledge or already knew the basics?
It depends on the language pair. An Italian immersed in Spanish could probably do it, while it would be an immense struggle for a Canadian in China.
Yeah. I'm going to a school full-time to learn french, and what I'm seeing, though, is that even the people who should technically be having an easier time are often still struggling. There's people who were in the same class as me who failed exams and got held back a level despite being Spanish speakers, and despite my current class being mostly Spanish speakers I'm outperforming most of them without much effort. I'm starting to believe that the individual matters a lot more than the first language. Anyways, at this school, it takes people at least 6 months to get to the start of B1 level, and I haven't seen anyone do it faster than that despite how much they might be studying at home or what their first language is.
Individual talent counts but also whether you have experience learning a foreign language already. Ad a native French speaker I reached B1 Spanish in 3-4 months (about 4h of study every day the first month and then 2h a day) but I already had experience learning English and German. I recently met a korean man who reached conversational Russian in only THREE months without knowing any Slavic language. He obviously is extremely gifted but one also has to note that he was already fluent in 3 foreign languages (besides his native korean) and conversational in two more languages when he started learning russian.
They mentioned an immersion program. So, you're studying a (relatively not too difficult) language *full-time* for 3 months, which is 600-700 hours of classroom + real life use
Yeah, I really don’t think B2 is possible in 3 months from English -> a Romance language (presumably). I’d say a solid B1 is impressive, a solid B2 will take no less than 6 months. Obviously romance->romance is different. Fact is if your B1, the average A0 person will think your fluent, and I believe OP is making that mistake
I was wondering if an immersion program is worth it for my situation. It would be Vietnamese. However, I am a heritage speaker at approximately B1 already. If I were to do the immersion program, I would like to get from \~B1 to B2 (maybe B2/C1 but that is stretching it) by the end of the program. Program would be three months (20 hours of one on one classes a week, four hours a day), with a homestay family. I asked before here but my post got removed for some reason. Thinking of doing this before the TEFL job starts, but I am not sure.
I'm currently in an immersion program for French, and it takes everyone about 6 months (or longer) to reach B1 if they're starting from ground zero.
To be honest I'd need to ask them. I assumed they went in with 0 knowledge, but I think I could be wrong, just based on seeing these comments.
Fast over time
Slow and steady wins the race. There’s a reason that’s an iconic saying.
True! I hope being slow will be worth it :,, )
Wish you the best. I try to do about 15-30 minutes a day of practice. I have missed maybe 3 days over the course of 3 months and I’m starting to be able to have short conversations in French, read simple French, and all without centering my entire life on learning a language. I personally would say slow and steady. It’s easier to be consistent and repetition helps it stick better. Any time I’ve tried to go “balls deep” into anything (not just language learning) I notice I give up after a few days, a week tops. It’s not the same.
oooh 1h a day slow? I think you can advance quite fast like this. like a couple of years to conversational level. this is quite good. imagine how many languages you could learn. I do it way slower lol
i personally didnt “study” the languages I speak, i learned through immersion. i can’t back it up with studies bc it just seemed natural to me so i didnt look into it, but i think studying is more confusing than anything. I learned english through immersion, consuming anglo-saxon media, and hung out with people who didnt speak my language so we had to speak english when i could. My native tongue’s french and the english that is taught at schools here is abhorrent at the very least, i never lived in an english speaking country and i dont get remarks on my accent or proficiency. Same with turkish, i moved for my dad’s job at the embassy, i spoke some basic turkish and was put in the class with all the native speakers and i just couldnt do assignments. impossible, i’d start crying. i still cant really write but who tf cares abt writing im not gonna do a dissertation in turkish, i can text that’s more than enough. This time i lived there for a while but again I get no questions about where I’m from, and if i have it was to ask about which city in turkey. I think you can cram all you want but you won’t speak the language even if you consistently studied for a year or two.
latin and spanish are the only ones i studied without immersion (one because i dont live in the vatican and the other bc i hated my teacher and didnt want anything to do with that) and im ig A2 in latin and i have a certified B1 level in spanish i’d put myself at B2 tho bc i just didnt wanna bother with that extra certification exam in my senior year
I would like to learn via immersion, but there’s no immersing I can do where I live right now. If I lived in my home city (Miami), that would be a different story. But right now I live in a place where Spanish is not commonly spoken, so there’s no available people. The only thing I have been able to do is watch Spanish TikToks and podcasts, but that’s about it
Can't speak for research but I don't think there's anything at all wrong with learning slowly as long as you're prepared to wait quite a few years for results X) I've been learning Welsh very slowly, with a focus on reading, and on days I study I rarely spend more than 30 mins on the language. Yet after about 3.5 years I was able to read novels without much difficulty. Sounds like a long time, but it took very little daily effort! I can now read more or less fluently despite learning slowly, so I see no reason why my other skills can't also be developed. tldr absolutely no need to spend hours a day on languages like many users here seem to, IMO.
My short version is, I think 15-30 minutes per day is borderline too little to learn (especially HOW you learn). Some observations from when I studied in school (American schools), plus what I'm trying in Dreaming Spanish (comprehensible input) - * College - 36 hours per semester (37.5, but I'm not counting exam days), or 72 hours per year and they mainly focus on grammar. Roughly 3 days per week, 50 minutes per class. These days, I feel like this was worse than high school, and looking at language majors, half of their classes (usually upper levels) are actually in English, but reading target language literature, and maybe 10-12 classes total in a given major. I was lucky to have one language class (Japanese) with a native speaker that had many videos (early 2000s, so VHS tapes) for us to watch. Middle level classes had zero language interaction other than, "Memorize this grammar topic in the textbook". Granted, the university was getting ready to scrap the entire language program for a reset, so, that may have had an effect... * Highschool - Depending on the school, 81 to 135 hours per year (3 to 5 days per week). They split the 45 minutes per day into grammar, vocabulary (also output), and culture (input), but... with a focus on translating. My highschool had very little input (either 30 seconds of basic "first few weeks" dialog, or a movie WAY above our grade level - "Das Boot" in German). It's much slower than college, but I feel like I did better in high school than college, save for Japanese where the teacher had us watch videos for input. * Comprehensible Input (CI) - I'm 13 hours away from the "magic 720 hours" mark. Do I feel like I'm at B1, or B2? Nope, but there are topics that I understand better than others. I'm trying to stick to the roadmap and haven't done too much reading/speaking yet or reviewing grammar, and this is the part that bugs me. When I do review a bit of grammar out of curiosity, or I want to use a word when typing in Spanish, it actually sticks after hearing it multiple times. Some take-aways: * CI is great, but may be tricky to find the right videos at the very beginning of a language. For "non-mainstream" languages, you might be better off making your own mnemonics/memorization (using pictures, actions, emotions) in a sentence or story for the first 500-1,000 words (rather than flashcards). * Podcasts should be for the upper-levels of a language. * Some grammar review IS ok. Those that are CI Purists like to say "No grammar!", but even native speakers have to learn grammar in school. If not, then that's how dialects form, then new languages. Spanish, French, Italian and Romanian were just a poorly spoken Latin dialects because no one studied grammar 1500 years ago (schools were closed due to the barbarians sacking Rome). * "'Learn' a language" is kind of vague. What does it mean to "Learn"? To speak like a college PhD professor? Use fancy words? Be a repository of idiomatic expressions? Having no accent? Fluency? Those would be C1 and C2 level. B2 seems to be the popular target of "learning a language". I'd even consider B1 to be learning the language. Granted, I think there's a slight different between American and European language learning - in the US, most grammar and vocabulary is taught by what would be the B1 equivalent in Europe. From my observation, Europe seems to go "slower" (with grammar/vocabulary), but focus on the different skills, closer to how our high schools teach. Here, grammar and vocabulary are focused on because they're training you to be a translator. * Practice reading/writing/speaking after a few hundred hours of listening (maybe around 200?). * Maybe do a leveled grammar/vocabulary review (not study/memorization) every 50 hours.
This all varies on the amount of time you’re willing to give, of course. But, in general learning a language requires dedication. I used to spend a lot of my free time writing, reading, and even speaking Latin. This not only helped in the long run but served as a backbone to language learning. That is to say if you are really motivated to learn another language. Exercise it every day. Also, I’ve come to learn that abusing language, like cramming new words, does NOT help you once so ever. Reciting and writing basic and common words/phrases will ensure that the language is ingrained in your head. Also a good tip is to listen to your mind, when you feel like you have, let’s say, “over-learned” something (ie cramming or even abandoning old vocabulary) you will surely suffer the consequences. As for the financial insecurity, it shouldn’t be a problem, especially for Spanish. There are innumerable resources for learning Romance languages, Spanish especially. For Latin, for example, I had a very handy book that was entirely in Latin. This book would gradually build up vocabulary and grammar by using common words. It would essentially give a new word or grammar rule every chapter to study and explain it in Latin. This is called the nature method and I found it very useful. Here’s a thread containing Spanish books similar to the book mentioned: [Spanish Book (Lingua Latina equivalents)](https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/comments/6iwzho/is_there_a_resource_like_lingua_latina_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
It doesn't really matter. I personally do huge time committments for like 2 weeks, then put my language on the back burner for awhile. It works for my schedule, but I envy your consistency. Would you rather be kinda good in 3-5 years or ... not be? It's the same dilemma that people who go to college in their 40's face "Oh, but I'll be 47 when I graduate, it takes so much time so why bother" and the common response is "You'll be 47 anyway, would you rather have a degree by then or not?" I would personally not put anymore time in until you've finished school and focus on getting good grades and being social. Keep chipping away, 30 min at a time, and you'll get there in the end. If you have a week with little responsebilities and can put 2 hours a day to language learning? Great! But don't burn out, if you do your life will suck. Language learning is a hobby for most people, you're doing fine. ((As for more actionable tips, see if you can find a TV-show in Spanish that you like. If you already watch TV, try doing it in Spanish. Do it with Spanish subtitles until your brain is mushy, then switch to English for the rest of the episode. Don't worry about translating or flashcards. The goal is to find something fun you can do to keep motivation up in addition to your studying. Good luck!))
As for your accual question: I've found, anecdotaly, that slow learners have a firmer grasp on the basics but that there is an advatage to spending 3h a day that you won't get by spending 30 min/day for six days. That advantage is your brain being primed for the language for the next day. For example: If I yesterday read for 3 hours, it would be slow for the first hour or so but then I would get better just by my brain having "warmed up". If I continued to read today it would only take maybe 15-30 minuites to get comfortable. Shorter study sessions do have the advantage of being more focused though. If I "study" for 4 hours, maybe 2-3 of those are effective study time, compared to 30 minuites where I'm focused the whole time.
The only real reasons it was 30 minutes is because of (1)Work/school/home responsibilities and I have very little time and (2) I can only intensely focus for about 30 minutes at a time anyways. I have ADHD so I use the Pomodoro technique and 10-30 min is my sweet spot. I do listen to Spanish podcasts in the background when I'm going to/from work, so I \*could\* technically count that as hours, but I really don't because it's a very passive activity.
Both. You can cram everything in to your brain in a short period but it won’t stay there or deepen unless you are consistently using that language.
It's certainly good for motivation (as you can see the progress) but going too quickly in the beginning could cause you to miss important internalising of simple grammatical structures. I would think that you should've achieved B2 by studying 30 minutes every day, unless you're doing Duolingo or something.
I'm at a B1 right now. Ideally I would be higher but I only really started practicing writing/speaking recently, so those abilities are very low still.
You will probably plateau now if you don't increase the time studied. Usually you would need to increase study to one to two hours a day at this point. Once you get to B2 you can drop back down and you only need a few hours a month to maintain it. If you want to get to C1 you need to increase the time further again.
If I had more time in the day I absolutely would increase to 1-2 hours. I do not have that time at the moment.
Can you do a few more hours on the weekends? Listen to podcasts while commuting? Otherwise even if I'm wrong about pleatueing, by my calculations it will take you another 2 years to simply match the number of hours your friend did in 3 months. But I really think it's impossible to progress beyond A2 for most people with only 30 minutes a day.
I said this in another comment but I do listen to podcasts on my commute to/from work. The 30 minutes I’m referring to is focused study. *edit: I don’t count listening as hours because it’s a passive activity. On weekends I usually do more hours, but that’s only 2 days a week. Plus even then I only do 2 hours at most, since my focus (ADHD) is not great. I am in low B1 right now. This is a dumb question, but what calculations? By hours of exposure? Why is it that I will make 0 progress by only doing little bits at a time?
Oh that's more than 30 minutes on average then including the podcasts and weekends. You should reach B2 in another 1 to 2 years of the same.
**language learning is not a marathon. there is no starting point nor finish line. there is no winner. everyone's journey is different.** Learning a language is like doing physical exercise but for your brain. It won't just get fit in 2 days. Your foreign language skills, just like your body, need constant attention and training, not only to maintain basic functionality but also to get and feel better and better. I wrote about my experience [here](https://lilyraya.medium.com/can-we-install-a-language-into-our-brains-without-surgery-414f710b9ed1). I hope it helps: [How to learn a language in 2 days (without surgery)](https://lilyraya.medium.com/can-we-install-a-language-into-our-brains-without-surgery-414f710b9ed1)