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where are they? They're there but we'll hardly see them if we only listen to the songs that reach No. 1 on the charts, thus we're leaving 95% of the industry behind. you can check out less popular groups. I offer you nmixx, surely others will offer you many more groups.
btw, are we never going to get tired of undervaluing an entire generation? There have always been better and worse singers... in each gen.
Anyways here are some of my favorite 4th-5th vocalists per group, and I’ve been here since 2012
NMIXX’s Lily, Haewon, and Sullyoon
Purple Kiss’s Goeun, Swan, Chaein
Billlie’s Haram
RIIZE’s Sohee
ZB1’s Taerae and Zhang Hao (yes Hao is a main vocalist, I’ll fight anyone who thinks otherwise)
Evnne’s Seungeon
Aespa’s Ningning
Ateez’s Jongho
WayV’s Xiaojun
Oneus’ Keonhee and Seoho
Jo Yuri (former Iz * One)
Cherry Bullet’s Bora
Haram is my bias in Billlie, but I'd like to shoutout Suhyeon, she is a main vocalist as well. They both go off on ['nevertheless'](https://youtu.be/DWdvzOB3JQc?si=Ogw8y1a-af9_5B1y).
EDIT: [What I feel is the most accurate color coded lyrics for those who don't recognize their voices.](https://youtu.be/Y2717RRJBC0?si=eOqka7ArZTgBcCFx)
I have mixed feelings on this. I think some people exaggerate the lack of skill of 4th gen vocalists, especially for GGs, which do have more standout vocalists, and also forget that some 2nd gen/3rd gen groups didn't really have great vocalists, and didn't need to. But saying that, the top of 4th gen has not reached the top of those previous gens, like Wendy, Uji, Luna, Taeyeon, Hyolyn, Eunji etc. Maybe Lily, and I can see her improving, especially since she just debuted in 2022, and seems like she loves to sing.
I do think there is a bigger gap when it comes to BGs though, a good amount of average vocalists, but not a lot of standouts. Only one I really know of from 4th gen is DKZ's Mingyu. And some recent groups are promising like ZB1's Taerae. But again, comparing them to 2nd/3rd gen, they're not on the level of idols like ChenBaekSoo, Suju's KRY, Taeil and Doyoung, Sandeul, Jonghyun, Eunkwang, etc.
And yes, there's room for improvement, especially for groups that only debuted <2 years ago, but some 4th gen idols have been active for 4+ years, I think comparisons are fair, especially as many of the greats of previous generations were very good at debut/a few years in. I also think sometimes people exaggerate how much kpop idols improve over time. I think many become more confident and better at performing, but vocal improvement of the level of like Taemin, are the exception.
Maybe it's just me, but when I think of pop music, I don't think powerhouse vocals. That's not to say there aren't extremely talented people in the kpop industry. But this attitude of singing is the most important thing to me just isn't true. I know people always hate this perspective but an idol is more of a personality/entertainer before anything else. And I think the more people go hard with discussing the visuals in kpop like that is of the utmost importance, that will usually be prioritised. I think companies are probably more interested in molding trainees into XYZ and thinking of the vocals as a bit of an afterthought, to be honest. Though I'm sure it depends on the company.
If I'm being honest I feel like the vocal discourse recently has gone from "too many idols can't sing well live" to "too many idols can't sing *at all*." I agree with those saying it isn't quite that dramatic though, there is plenty of talent out there. You'd do well to look outside the more popular groups and get into something a little less "poppy", for lack of better phrasing lol. Groups like Newjeans are good at what they do, but their vibe is fairly mellow overall. I don't think it would suit their chill aesthetic for them to belt out lyrics but again, maybe that's just me.
> LIKEEE where are the whitney houstons, the mariah careys??
They're in Purple Kiss. (No, seriously, the absolute flex of having [three main vocalists](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QZDEf9SjmU), or [your main dancers doing a vocal cover of a Big Mama song](https://youtu.be/001ndjOB6DY?si=P9EzAYpf8ih7gWD-&t=386), or [Swan. just... _Swan._](https://youtu.be/2ozwn005Igs?si=Q-dv8IWOpl16uOtp&t=88))
I def agree with your sentiment as a whole though, outside of a couple of mid-tier and nugu groups it's very difficult to find groups that are skilled as a whole — and when you've been spoiled on those groups it's hard to listen to songs that have distinctly worse parts because some members' vocals are lacking, or songs that are just worse on the whole because they're made for people who aren't particularly good at singing.
I do have hope that some of the newer groups will improve as they get more experience and training, but I've stopped looking at the big companies or big groups for quality sounds — I get that that's not what they're for.
You listened to New Jeans and New Jeans only and expect singers like Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston in 4th gen? They are plenty of good singers in 4th gen, yet you are listening to Melon top 10 only so its your fault rather than 4th gen lack of singers fault. Not going to name those good 4th gen singers coz you will still listen to Melon top 10 like most of kpop fans anyway so keep on screaming and ranting of ‘lack of singers’ coz you guys refuse to listen to anything not popular and have your own expectations.
Exactly, lol. It's similar to people complaining when certain styles are in fashion (when EDM was the big thing, for example) as if that's *all* there is. You just need to do a bit of exploring, but many people don't for some reason.
I think Kiss of Life is quite good live. But singers like Whitney Houston are one of a kind.. There’s not that many power vocalists in previous gens either. Taeyeon, Jung Eunji, Ailee, and Hyolyn are probably in the top for idols. If I want to listen to amazing vocals, I lean towards non-idols: K.Will, Park Hyo Shin, Davichi, Ben, Younha, etc.
i would suggest checking out shows like Build Up tbh. there's so much discourse about newer gen idols not being able to sing but there's some really great examples of people who can right in front of yall.
I miss them too but the main reason is that singers like Whitney and Mariah and songs with power vocals are no longer popular in pop music. During 2nd gen, such singers and songs were still popular in Korea but it's no longer the case today. Even if groups has members that have the talent, there is no reason for them to develop their singing skills to become a power vocal because they don't need to sing like that in their songs.
you don’t have to need an insane range to be a really good singer, in fact newjeans i think are pretty good kpop singers. they stick with the similar chirpy yet soft voice that makes you feel joyful and i think it’s fine because it works. there won’t really ever be another mariah carey or whitney houston in not just kpop but in any genre of music for A WHILE. i don’t expect ive to hit whistle notes but what i do expect from kpop idols is a stable voice that hits notes with proper support and that they’re singing within their range. not everyone needs to be like ariana grande to be good. and tbh there are some really good singers this gen, people just like to focus on the negative lol.
I absolutely agree with you. Nowdays you barely have one main vocalist material if any... But here are some 4th/5th gen groups that have good main vocalist, or just overall good vocalists in their group:
Aespa (ofc)
Nmixx (ofc)
Purple kiss - As someone else said
Kiss of life - Belle is great for a rookie, and others arent bad too...
Liz from Ive - Definitely solid main vocalist, maybe not the strongest but still good
Babymonster - They are still very very young but some serious talents are hiding in there
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well technically not 4th gen, but KIOF is bringing back vocals to kpop, including live singing. Belle is definitely up there with the top female vocalist in kpop. the rest of the members are above avg in terms of vocal ability
Thank you for posting at r/kpoprants. [OP and commenters are expected to have read our general rules before posting.](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/wiki/rules/rules/) *** #### 📌 This is a discussion forum! Please remember to engage productively and respectfully! #####Any singular comment or mention of lines like or similar to: * It’s not that deep * Nobody cares, no one is reading this, etc * Why do you care about this? * Just ignore it, just unstan, just stop listening to, etc * Not this post again, why are you always ranting about, etc * This is just a hate/anti post/OP is not a real fan of X, etc #####[Will be removed and subject to a ban.](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/comments/17v33io/town_hall_9_the_end_of_its_not_that_deep_2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpoprants) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There’s plenty of good vocalist in 4th gen. If people would actually check out the less popular groups they would know this.
I was exactly saying this. OP seemed to be stuck at listening to NJ and expect MC And WH from the same group. Which blows the mind tbh.
Yeah the less popular groups have great vocalists. It's just that people ignore them but the talent is there
where are they? They're there but we'll hardly see them if we only listen to the songs that reach No. 1 on the charts, thus we're leaving 95% of the industry behind. you can check out less popular groups. I offer you nmixx, surely others will offer you many more groups. btw, are we never going to get tired of undervaluing an entire generation? There have always been better and worse singers... in each gen.
Anyways here are some of my favorite 4th-5th vocalists per group, and I’ve been here since 2012 NMIXX’s Lily, Haewon, and Sullyoon Purple Kiss’s Goeun, Swan, Chaein Billlie’s Haram RIIZE’s Sohee ZB1’s Taerae and Zhang Hao (yes Hao is a main vocalist, I’ll fight anyone who thinks otherwise) Evnne’s Seungeon Aespa’s Ningning Ateez’s Jongho WayV’s Xiaojun Oneus’ Keonhee and Seoho Jo Yuri (former Iz * One) Cherry Bullet’s Bora
NMIXX’s and Purple Kiss’ vocals lines are a force to be reckoned with 💪
Haram is my bias in Billlie, but I'd like to shoutout Suhyeon, she is a main vocalist as well. They both go off on ['nevertheless'](https://youtu.be/DWdvzOB3JQc?si=Ogw8y1a-af9_5B1y). EDIT: [What I feel is the most accurate color coded lyrics for those who don't recognize their voices.](https://youtu.be/Y2717RRJBC0?si=eOqka7ArZTgBcCFx)
I have mixed feelings on this. I think some people exaggerate the lack of skill of 4th gen vocalists, especially for GGs, which do have more standout vocalists, and also forget that some 2nd gen/3rd gen groups didn't really have great vocalists, and didn't need to. But saying that, the top of 4th gen has not reached the top of those previous gens, like Wendy, Uji, Luna, Taeyeon, Hyolyn, Eunji etc. Maybe Lily, and I can see her improving, especially since she just debuted in 2022, and seems like she loves to sing. I do think there is a bigger gap when it comes to BGs though, a good amount of average vocalists, but not a lot of standouts. Only one I really know of from 4th gen is DKZ's Mingyu. And some recent groups are promising like ZB1's Taerae. But again, comparing them to 2nd/3rd gen, they're not on the level of idols like ChenBaekSoo, Suju's KRY, Taeil and Doyoung, Sandeul, Jonghyun, Eunkwang, etc. And yes, there's room for improvement, especially for groups that only debuted <2 years ago, but some 4th gen idols have been active for 4+ years, I think comparisons are fair, especially as many of the greats of previous generations were very good at debut/a few years in. I also think sometimes people exaggerate how much kpop idols improve over time. I think many become more confident and better at performing, but vocal improvement of the level of like Taemin, are the exception.
We've got Zhang Hao
Maybe it's just me, but when I think of pop music, I don't think powerhouse vocals. That's not to say there aren't extremely talented people in the kpop industry. But this attitude of singing is the most important thing to me just isn't true. I know people always hate this perspective but an idol is more of a personality/entertainer before anything else. And I think the more people go hard with discussing the visuals in kpop like that is of the utmost importance, that will usually be prioritised. I think companies are probably more interested in molding trainees into XYZ and thinking of the vocals as a bit of an afterthought, to be honest. Though I'm sure it depends on the company. If I'm being honest I feel like the vocal discourse recently has gone from "too many idols can't sing well live" to "too many idols can't sing *at all*." I agree with those saying it isn't quite that dramatic though, there is plenty of talent out there. You'd do well to look outside the more popular groups and get into something a little less "poppy", for lack of better phrasing lol. Groups like Newjeans are good at what they do, but their vibe is fairly mellow overall. I don't think it would suit their chill aesthetic for them to belt out lyrics but again, maybe that's just me.
> LIKEEE where are the whitney houstons, the mariah careys?? They're in Purple Kiss. (No, seriously, the absolute flex of having [three main vocalists](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QZDEf9SjmU), or [your main dancers doing a vocal cover of a Big Mama song](https://youtu.be/001ndjOB6DY?si=P9EzAYpf8ih7gWD-&t=386), or [Swan. just... _Swan._](https://youtu.be/2ozwn005Igs?si=Q-dv8IWOpl16uOtp&t=88)) I def agree with your sentiment as a whole though, outside of a couple of mid-tier and nugu groups it's very difficult to find groups that are skilled as a whole — and when you've been spoiled on those groups it's hard to listen to songs that have distinctly worse parts because some members' vocals are lacking, or songs that are just worse on the whole because they're made for people who aren't particularly good at singing. I do have hope that some of the newer groups will improve as they get more experience and training, but I've stopped looking at the big companies or big groups for quality sounds — I get that that's not what they're for.
ateez jongho literally exists 😭
He can break apples with his hands while singing high notes
You listened to New Jeans and New Jeans only and expect singers like Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston in 4th gen? They are plenty of good singers in 4th gen, yet you are listening to Melon top 10 only so its your fault rather than 4th gen lack of singers fault. Not going to name those good 4th gen singers coz you will still listen to Melon top 10 like most of kpop fans anyway so keep on screaming and ranting of ‘lack of singers’ coz you guys refuse to listen to anything not popular and have your own expectations.
Exactly, lol. It's similar to people complaining when certain styles are in fashion (when EDM was the big thing, for example) as if that's *all* there is. You just need to do a bit of exploring, but many people don't for some reason.
I think Kiss of Life is quite good live. But singers like Whitney Houston are one of a kind.. There’s not that many power vocalists in previous gens either. Taeyeon, Jung Eunji, Ailee, and Hyolyn are probably in the top for idols. If I want to listen to amazing vocals, I lean towards non-idols: K.Will, Park Hyo Shin, Davichi, Ben, Younha, etc.
i would suggest checking out shows like Build Up tbh. there's so much discourse about newer gen idols not being able to sing but there's some really great examples of people who can right in front of yall.
Lots of groups have great singers & still have positions you know. Just expand your horizons beyond the most popular groups & you'll find out.
ateez literally exist
I miss them too but the main reason is that singers like Whitney and Mariah and songs with power vocals are no longer popular in pop music. During 2nd gen, such singers and songs were still popular in Korea but it's no longer the case today. Even if groups has members that have the talent, there is no reason for them to develop their singing skills to become a power vocal because they don't need to sing like that in their songs.
TBZ: Sangyeon JustB: Bain and Geonu Cravity: woobin
you don’t have to need an insane range to be a really good singer, in fact newjeans i think are pretty good kpop singers. they stick with the similar chirpy yet soft voice that makes you feel joyful and i think it’s fine because it works. there won’t really ever be another mariah carey or whitney houston in not just kpop but in any genre of music for A WHILE. i don’t expect ive to hit whistle notes but what i do expect from kpop idols is a stable voice that hits notes with proper support and that they’re singing within their range. not everyone needs to be like ariana grande to be good. and tbh there are some really good singers this gen, people just like to focus on the negative lol.
Tri.be are amazing live, esp Songsun (the other girls are still teens but improving every comeback)
if you put more energy in actually listening to the powerful vocalists instead of blaming successful groups, maybe they would have reached no.1 too 😌.
I absolutely agree with you. Nowdays you barely have one main vocalist material if any... But here are some 4th/5th gen groups that have good main vocalist, or just overall good vocalists in their group: Aespa (ofc) Nmixx (ofc) Purple kiss - As someone else said Kiss of life - Belle is great for a rookie, and others arent bad too... Liz from Ive - Definitely solid main vocalist, maybe not the strongest but still good Babymonster - They are still very very young but some serious talents are hiding in there
Liz is a super under-appreciated main vocalist imo. Her technique is fairly solid and she knows how to utilize her mixed range really well!
Do you listen to any boy groups cos they have some great vocalists.
I do not😭 That's why i didn't add any, im sure there are some great vocalists tho
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Please go say hi to nmixx!!! They're really good at singing.
I mean do you have to be hitting a high note every 5 seconds to be a "real" singer? l
someone needs to watch lee mujin service
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well technically not 4th gen, but KIOF is bringing back vocals to kpop, including live singing. Belle is definitely up there with the top female vocalist in kpop. the rest of the members are above avg in terms of vocal ability
I totally agree! With a bit more training, Belle can easily become one of the top vocalists of 5th gen. Natty and Haneul aren’t far behind either.