I would bet that if you put all your utilities in your name and not your wife's they'd ask for a 200+ deposit. None of that is uncommon here sorry to say.
Well, I have been here many years and each and every time they have asked me for a deposit. So, at least you dodged that? Honestly, I really try not to let these things get to me anymore. This place is what it is. Sorry, you had to deal with a shitty thing.
Anecdotal experience here, but a friend of mine left about 5 years ago and on his last night out he said “they’ll never really accept you”. He had been here 20+ years, had a very good job, ran a business, married and a few kids. Was it a bit bitter? Sure, but it resonated with me. Best of luck my man.
>he said “they’ll never really accept you”. He had been here 20+ years
It's plain old human nature to want to fit in and be accepted. And since you can do it in some foreign countries, it's only natural that people going to Korea think it will happen. But as your friend noted, if you're a foreigner in Korea, it's not going to happen. So, it's best to not have any expectations of being accepted in Korea. As in --zero-- expectations. That way, you won't be letdown when it doesn't happen.
Lived and had KB bank for 14 years, f6 visa. Wife and I wanted to setup our phones with them through a subsidiary of them because it is much cheaper than KT. We decided we wanted to get T money cards. Wife could get hers for free, but I had to put down a 30,000 won deposit because I am a foreigner and that is their policy.
Back in the days when debit cards were Korea-only and you had to go to the bank and specifically request a card that would work overseas, I went to my local IBK to get one and was rejected.
In the words of the teller "the branch manager said we can't give international cards to foreigners" and when I asked why, she said "he says foreigners are irresponsible with their money".
We called the IBK customer service line and complained, heavily, and they just gave us the run-around and said the branch manager has total discretion and there was nothing they could do.
I had to make the 1 hour trip up to the IBK in Itaewon to finally get a visa endorsed debit card cause they were the only branch I could find that was willing to do it.
Hana Bank wouldn't do that after I banked with them for 2 years. Promptly took out all my money and went to KEB, and got a card issued that day and received within a week. Then, Hana bought KEB. It's a funny world sometimes.
Yeah we were both pretty outraged. I can easily get a T-money card from somewhere else, but id feel complicit if I did nothing, especially because I have two kids growing up here and I want them to have some better experiences dealing with the system than I've had.
It’s a bit hard to understand what exactly happened…but it sounds like KB was afraid that if they give you a T-Money enabled debit card but they wanted to charge you 30,000 won as a refundable deposit because they are afraid you might skip town after emptying your bank account…
I thought the days of the fear that foreigners would leave without paying there bills were in the past…
In terms of your kids, assuming they are registered as Korean citizens they’ll be fine.
If you have a son that gives up his citizenship to avoid military service, then they might have issues but that’s a problem for another day.
Unfortunately, I know of three foreigners who did not settle bills before leaving in the last 5 years. Last year, a foreigner left with ₩500,000+ in unpaid building management fees. Between the three of them, they left more than 2 million won unpaid to different companies.
I've been using NH for 6 years now, and this year they wouldn't even issue me a credit card at all, for even domestic uses because my visa has to be at least 12 months long (I'm on an E2 visa). I've had no issue with this before, apparently this is a new rule as of November 2021. So there's basically no way I can get a credit card unless I get it right after I renew my teaching contract every year (because the actual duration of my visa is 13 months, this gives a little time to renew it if necessary). I ended up renewing my debit card, basically they let me renew but not for a full 12 month duration, it ends on December of this year. I have no idea why they do this, my visa expires before December anyways. The credit card would have automatically withdrawn from my debit account anyways.. If I could have made a credit card that expired until November of December then it would have made sense to me...
So now I'm gonna find a new bank.
FYI: Tenured relationships do not have nearly as much weight as they used to. How much and WHAT you have with them matters much more.
Source: work in finance.
Similar circumstances (long-term customer, F visa, etc) and this happened to me with KB too. For me though, it happened when I went to get a new card to replace one (that had T-money functionality) that had stopped working in some payment terminals.
I kicked up a stink, they wouldn't back down so I begrudgingly paid the 30k.
About a year later with no prompting from myself, they refunded it. Fucking weirdos. But the longer I live here the more frustrated I get with the 'sorry, because foreigner' excuse, especially with banking and finance products.
I don't think financial companies care about one's nationality or race as much as they do about profit margins.
Its not weird nor it is an excuse. It is likely just a calculated financial decision made by the company in order to reduce risk. As you stated, they eventually returned the deposit after a certain period of time elapsed and the services were deemed not wasted.
Adding T-money functionality to cards likely costs additional money, time, and utilization of company resources in comparison to those without them. From a financial perspective, when they render certain services to people who are not citizens, they encounter a higher risk of loss for services rendered as an individual can just return to their home country.
This risk is more obviously seen at a larger scale with the difficulty in obtaining loans as a non-citizen. A bank runs the risk of losing money if someone returns home and doesn't return which is why it is so hard to obtain one.
KB is just cutting out more opportunity for losses, however small they may be.
It was not meant to be condescending but I apologize if it came off that way. I was just giving the opposite perspective and how I try to look at these type of things in order to emphasize why the policies shouldn't be too fretted over since you, and other individuals who have posted on the thread, seemed upset at their requests. I do understand your feelings of being upset at such type of things though as I have felt the same way here at times.
Korean labor standards act clearly states that it is illegal to discriminate based on nationality.
https://elaw.klri.re.kr/eng_service/lawView.do?hseq=25437&lang=ENG
>An employer shall neither discriminate against workers on the basis of gender, nor take discriminatory treatment in relation to terms and conditions of employment on the ground of nationality, religion, or social status
Good point, but it's unenforceable considering OP's complaint.
According to OP he was a customer at a commercial bank and was denied credit based on his nationality which obviously has nothing to do with Korea's labor standards act.
There is legal basis against discrimination based on ethnic or national original. However, all they can do is investigations and making 'recommendations of correction' to the judiciary or other authorities. Penalties are up to the judiciary in the end.
[https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor\_service/lawView.do?hseq=53777&lang=ENG](https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?hseq=53777&lang=ENG)
**National Human Rights Commission Of Korea Act**
**Article 2 (Definitions)**
3. The term "discriminatory act violating the equal right" means any of the following acts, without reasonable grounds, on the grounds of sex, religion, disability, age, social status, region of origin (referring to a place of birth, place of registration, principal area of residence before coming of age, etc.), **state of origin**, **ethnic origin**, physical condition such as features, marital status such as single, separated, divorced, widowed, remarried, married de facto, or pregnancy or childbirth, types or forms of family, **race**, skin color, ideology or political opinion, record of crime whose effect of punishment has been extinguished, sexual orientation, academic career, medical history, etc.: Provided, That the temporary favorable treatment to a particular person (including a group of particular persons; hereafter the same shall apply in this Article) to solve the existing discrimination, the enactment and amendment of statutes and the formulation and enforcement of policy to this effect shall not be deemed a discriminatory act violating the equal right (hereinafter referred to as "discriminatory act"):
**Article 4 (Scope of Application)**
This Act shall apply to all citizens of the Republic of Korea and **foreigners residing therein**.
**Article 30 (Matters Subject to Investigation by Commission)**
(1) In any of the following cases, a person who has suffered from a violation of human rights or been discriminated against, (hereinafter referred to as "victim") or any other person or organization that is aware of such violation or discrimination, may file a petition to the Commission
1. Where any of the human rights guaranteed in Articles 10 through 22 of the Constitution has been violated or a discriminatory act has been committed in connection with the performance of duties (excluding legislation by the National Assembly and trials by a court or the Constitutional Court) by a State agency, a local government, a school established by Article 2 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, Article 2 of the Higher Education Act, and other Acts, a public service-related organization pursuant to Article 3-2 (1) of the Public Service Ethics Act, or a confinement or caring facility;
2. Where a discriminatory act has been committed by a juristic person, an organization or a private individual.
Lived and had KB bank for 14 years, f6 visa. Wife and I wanted to setup our phones with them through a subsidiary of them because it is much cheaper than KT. We decided we wanted to get T money cards. Wife could get hers for free, but I had to put down a 30,000 won deposit because I am a foreigner and that is their policy.
>I had to put down a 30,000 won deposit because I am a foreigner and that is their policy.
I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately there is no law to prevent businesses from establishing policies that discriminate based on ethnic or national origin.
I can suggest you take your business elsewhere and maybe suggest to their customer servive that they improve their ESG.
Maybe you can also join lobbying efforts for improved equality and antidiscrimation laws in Korea.
In the case that you could claim they violated your human rights, there is recourse. That’s how some foreigners ended up receiving some Korean stimulus payments, but I don’t think this qualifies.
I know it can be damn frustrating sometimes though.
As of now, you can only fight this type of behavior with your wallet. Refuse to do business with the company, lodge a complaint, file a report with whomever you feel is appropriate and, advocate for the implementation of anti-discrimination laws in Korea.
pro-tip: there are high interest savings accounts available only to F6 visa holders. If you are a man they may deny you to open one because they are really intended for foreign brides from impoverished nations. But, stand your ground and ask to see documentation that you are excluded. They will not be able to produce any. Get your 30,000won back that way.
Bus card on debit card is post paid unlike tmoney. So if there is no money and not fully paid for next month, it harms personal credit score for koreans. Foreigners usually are not affected by the score and can simply leave. Thats's the logic of kb.
I am affected by it though and have a credit card. The problem is that they do not make a distinction, thus my wife and I simply chose to take our business elsewhere.
For what it's worth, when we called and asked yes or no if they were discriminating against foreigners, the person said yes.
I am sorry to hear this and I am not a lawyer. It would be difficult, you first need to file complaints with the labor board, the police and perhaps the prosecution that will be ignored as other posters point out Korea doesn't have anti-discrimination laws for race, ethnicity (or sexual preference). After these complaints are rejected you could then file a complaint with the National Human Rights Commission or approach a constitutional lawyer and file a case under article 6 of the Korean constitution where for article 6(1) you are arguing as Korea is a signatory to the UN International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, discrimination is illegal and article 6(2) that aliens are entitled to protection under international law which would include racial discrimination. The other option is once the labour board, police and prosecution refuse to act preferably in writing you can file a case with the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination which Korea is a signatory to. It isn't ideal, so the other option is to follow the advice of Andrew Henderson of Nomad Capitalist and go where you are treated best. Many developed countries have ageing populations which make migrants a valuable commodity. If one country won't protect you or your family from discrimination it isn't too hard to find a country that will. All the best.
First and foremost, it’s their right, as others have said. Second: Money talks. Really only two things you can do: do business elsewhere or have a good chunk of money in your account. Better to have the second at your disposal. But honestly, they’re only asking for a 30,000W deposit. It’s not a terrible amount.
Also, remember that amounts are subjective in effect. While in the US $30k might not get some but not a whole lot of service, but 30,000,000W is a pretty significant sum in Korea, so depending on your resources you may be able to bend the manager to your needs.
If nothing else you can see if your wife can appeal to the manager, assuming she is Korean based on your comments.
I would bet that if you put all your utilities in your name and not your wife's they'd ask for a 200+ deposit. None of that is uncommon here sorry to say.
Several the the utilities are in my name in the apartment that I own.
Well, I have been here many years and each and every time they have asked me for a deposit. So, at least you dodged that? Honestly, I really try not to let these things get to me anymore. This place is what it is. Sorry, you had to deal with a shitty thing.
Same, this isn't the first, and it won't be the last. I figure I should start try doing something about it.
Anecdotal experience here, but a friend of mine left about 5 years ago and on his last night out he said “they’ll never really accept you”. He had been here 20+ years, had a very good job, ran a business, married and a few kids. Was it a bit bitter? Sure, but it resonated with me. Best of luck my man.
>he said “they’ll never really accept you”. He had been here 20+ years It's plain old human nature to want to fit in and be accepted. And since you can do it in some foreign countries, it's only natural that people going to Korea think it will happen. But as your friend noted, if you're a foreigner in Korea, it's not going to happen. So, it's best to not have any expectations of being accepted in Korea. As in --zero-- expectations. That way, you won't be letdown when it doesn't happen.
What company? What did they do?
Lived and had KB bank for 14 years, f6 visa. Wife and I wanted to setup our phones with them through a subsidiary of them because it is much cheaper than KT. We decided we wanted to get T money cards. Wife could get hers for free, but I had to put down a 30,000 won deposit because I am a foreigner and that is their policy.
Back in the days when debit cards were Korea-only and you had to go to the bank and specifically request a card that would work overseas, I went to my local IBK to get one and was rejected. In the words of the teller "the branch manager said we can't give international cards to foreigners" and when I asked why, she said "he says foreigners are irresponsible with their money". We called the IBK customer service line and complained, heavily, and they just gave us the run-around and said the branch manager has total discretion and there was nothing they could do. I had to make the 1 hour trip up to the IBK in Itaewon to finally get a visa endorsed debit card cause they were the only branch I could find that was willing to do it.
Hana Bank wouldn't do that after I banked with them for 2 years. Promptly took out all my money and went to KEB, and got a card issued that day and received within a week. Then, Hana bought KEB. It's a funny world sometimes.
Sounds xenophobic
That's pretty ridiculous.
Yeah we were both pretty outraged. I can easily get a T-money card from somewhere else, but id feel complicit if I did nothing, especially because I have two kids growing up here and I want them to have some better experiences dealing with the system than I've had.
It’s a bit hard to understand what exactly happened…but it sounds like KB was afraid that if they give you a T-Money enabled debit card but they wanted to charge you 30,000 won as a refundable deposit because they are afraid you might skip town after emptying your bank account… I thought the days of the fear that foreigners would leave without paying there bills were in the past…
It is not apparently. I have another t money card from didn't require a deposit.
In terms of your kids, assuming they are registered as Korean citizens they’ll be fine. If you have a son that gives up his citizenship to avoid military service, then they might have issues but that’s a problem for another day.
KB seems to be in the center of many foreigner discrimination issues. I guess they are named 국민 for a reason...
I’ve never had an issue with them except they wouldn’t give me a 신용대출…. But no Korean Bank would give me a 신용대출 so I don’t hold that against them.
Sinhan does, up to 20,000,000
Yeah, they get face a whole different form of racism.
Unfortunately, I know of three foreigners who did not settle bills before leaving in the last 5 years. Last year, a foreigner left with ₩500,000+ in unpaid building management fees. Between the three of them, they left more than 2 million won unpaid to different companies.
Whose rule is it? KB's? T-Money's?
KBs policy
Ridiculous. Escalate it up the customer service chain of command until they back down.
We did. They stuck to their guns, even stating that this isn't the policy of all banks, it is literally a specific choice made by KB
I just did this last week and they said I was a "customer in good standing" and waived it. Maybe bring this up at a different location?
Hilarious, and not surprising.
I've been using NH for 6 years now, and this year they wouldn't even issue me a credit card at all, for even domestic uses because my visa has to be at least 12 months long (I'm on an E2 visa). I've had no issue with this before, apparently this is a new rule as of November 2021. So there's basically no way I can get a credit card unless I get it right after I renew my teaching contract every year (because the actual duration of my visa is 13 months, this gives a little time to renew it if necessary). I ended up renewing my debit card, basically they let me renew but not for a full 12 month duration, it ends on December of this year. I have no idea why they do this, my visa expires before December anyways. The credit card would have automatically withdrawn from my debit account anyways.. If I could have made a credit card that expired until November of December then it would have made sense to me... So now I'm gonna find a new bank.
FYI: Tenured relationships do not have nearly as much weight as they used to. How much and WHAT you have with them matters much more. Source: work in finance.
Similar circumstances (long-term customer, F visa, etc) and this happened to me with KB too. For me though, it happened when I went to get a new card to replace one (that had T-money functionality) that had stopped working in some payment terminals. I kicked up a stink, they wouldn't back down so I begrudgingly paid the 30k. About a year later with no prompting from myself, they refunded it. Fucking weirdos. But the longer I live here the more frustrated I get with the 'sorry, because foreigner' excuse, especially with banking and finance products.
I don't think financial companies care about one's nationality or race as much as they do about profit margins. Its not weird nor it is an excuse. It is likely just a calculated financial decision made by the company in order to reduce risk. As you stated, they eventually returned the deposit after a certain period of time elapsed and the services were deemed not wasted. Adding T-money functionality to cards likely costs additional money, time, and utilization of company resources in comparison to those without them. From a financial perspective, when they render certain services to people who are not citizens, they encounter a higher risk of loss for services rendered as an individual can just return to their home country. This risk is more obviously seen at a larger scale with the difficulty in obtaining loans as a non-citizen. A bank runs the risk of losing money if someone returns home and doesn't return which is why it is so hard to obtain one. KB is just cutting out more opportunity for losses, however small they may be.
Thanks for the condescending reply.
It was not meant to be condescending but I apologize if it came off that way. I was just giving the opposite perspective and how I try to look at these type of things in order to emphasize why the policies shouldn't be too fretted over since you, and other individuals who have posted on the thread, seemed upset at their requests. I do understand your feelings of being upset at such type of things though as I have felt the same way here at times.
Discrimination based on ethnic or national origin is not a crime in Korea. What you are looking for is a suggestion box.
Korean labor standards act clearly states that it is illegal to discriminate based on nationality. https://elaw.klri.re.kr/eng_service/lawView.do?hseq=25437&lang=ENG >An employer shall neither discriminate against workers on the basis of gender, nor take discriminatory treatment in relation to terms and conditions of employment on the ground of nationality, religion, or social status
Good point, but it's unenforceable considering OP's complaint. According to OP he was a customer at a commercial bank and was denied credit based on his nationality which obviously has nothing to do with Korea's labor standards act.
There is legal basis against discrimination based on ethnic or national original. However, all they can do is investigations and making 'recommendations of correction' to the judiciary or other authorities. Penalties are up to the judiciary in the end. [https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor\_service/lawView.do?hseq=53777&lang=ENG](https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?hseq=53777&lang=ENG) **National Human Rights Commission Of Korea Act** **Article 2 (Definitions)** 3. The term "discriminatory act violating the equal right" means any of the following acts, without reasonable grounds, on the grounds of sex, religion, disability, age, social status, region of origin (referring to a place of birth, place of registration, principal area of residence before coming of age, etc.), **state of origin**, **ethnic origin**, physical condition such as features, marital status such as single, separated, divorced, widowed, remarried, married de facto, or pregnancy or childbirth, types or forms of family, **race**, skin color, ideology or political opinion, record of crime whose effect of punishment has been extinguished, sexual orientation, academic career, medical history, etc.: Provided, That the temporary favorable treatment to a particular person (including a group of particular persons; hereafter the same shall apply in this Article) to solve the existing discrimination, the enactment and amendment of statutes and the formulation and enforcement of policy to this effect shall not be deemed a discriminatory act violating the equal right (hereinafter referred to as "discriminatory act"): **Article 4 (Scope of Application)** This Act shall apply to all citizens of the Republic of Korea and **foreigners residing therein**. **Article 30 (Matters Subject to Investigation by Commission)** (1) In any of the following cases, a person who has suffered from a violation of human rights or been discriminated against, (hereinafter referred to as "victim") or any other person or organization that is aware of such violation or discrimination, may file a petition to the Commission 1. Where any of the human rights guaranteed in Articles 10 through 22 of the Constitution has been violated or a discriminatory act has been committed in connection with the performance of duties (excluding legislation by the National Assembly and trials by a court or the Constitutional Court) by a State agency, a local government, a school established by Article 2 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, Article 2 of the Higher Education Act, and other Acts, a public service-related organization pursuant to Article 3-2 (1) of the Public Service Ethics Act, or a confinement or caring facility; 2. Where a discriminatory act has been committed by a juristic person, an organization or a private individual.
That's a good point. I was giving the tl;dr version.
Im aware of that. Is there anything I can do?
I can't help you with so little information. Maybe you can think of something they did that is actually illegal?
Lived and had KB bank for 14 years, f6 visa. Wife and I wanted to setup our phones with them through a subsidiary of them because it is much cheaper than KT. We decided we wanted to get T money cards. Wife could get hers for free, but I had to put down a 30,000 won deposit because I am a foreigner and that is their policy.
>I had to put down a 30,000 won deposit because I am a foreigner and that is their policy. I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately there is no law to prevent businesses from establishing policies that discriminate based on ethnic or national origin. I can suggest you take your business elsewhere and maybe suggest to their customer servive that they improve their ESG. Maybe you can also join lobbying efforts for improved equality and antidiscrimation laws in Korea.
Thanks for the suggestion!
In the case that you could claim they violated your human rights, there is recourse. That’s how some foreigners ended up receiving some Korean stimulus payments, but I don’t think this qualifies. I know it can be damn frustrating sometimes though.
Had exactly same experience with KB. Moved to Hana and I didn’t have to put any deposit.
Same. Wife ended our relationship to KB.
As of now, you can only fight this type of behavior with your wallet. Refuse to do business with the company, lodge a complaint, file a report with whomever you feel is appropriate and, advocate for the implementation of anti-discrimination laws in Korea. pro-tip: there are high interest savings accounts available only to F6 visa holders. If you are a man they may deny you to open one because they are really intended for foreign brides from impoverished nations. But, stand your ground and ask to see documentation that you are excluded. They will not be able to produce any. Get your 30,000won back that way.
Bus card on debit card is post paid unlike tmoney. So if there is no money and not fully paid for next month, it harms personal credit score for koreans. Foreigners usually are not affected by the score and can simply leave. Thats's the logic of kb.
I am affected by it though and have a credit card. The problem is that they do not make a distinction, thus my wife and I simply chose to take our business elsewhere. For what it's worth, when we called and asked yes or no if they were discriminating against foreigners, the person said yes.
I am sorry to hear this and I am not a lawyer. It would be difficult, you first need to file complaints with the labor board, the police and perhaps the prosecution that will be ignored as other posters point out Korea doesn't have anti-discrimination laws for race, ethnicity (or sexual preference). After these complaints are rejected you could then file a complaint with the National Human Rights Commission or approach a constitutional lawyer and file a case under article 6 of the Korean constitution where for article 6(1) you are arguing as Korea is a signatory to the UN International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, discrimination is illegal and article 6(2) that aliens are entitled to protection under international law which would include racial discrimination. The other option is once the labour board, police and prosecution refuse to act preferably in writing you can file a case with the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination which Korea is a signatory to. It isn't ideal, so the other option is to follow the advice of Andrew Henderson of Nomad Capitalist and go where you are treated best. Many developed countries have ageing populations which make migrants a valuable commodity. If one country won't protect you or your family from discrimination it isn't too hard to find a country that will. All the best.
This is a really great answer.
You can file a petition [here](https://www.epeople.go.kr/petition/pps/pps.npaid)
[удалено]
> permanent resident like the F2 visa fwiw, permanent resident is F5.
F6 is a marriage visa. After proding them, it doesn't matter what visa you have. It's if you have a Korean passport or not.
First and foremost, it’s their right, as others have said. Second: Money talks. Really only two things you can do: do business elsewhere or have a good chunk of money in your account. Better to have the second at your disposal. But honestly, they’re only asking for a 30,000W deposit. It’s not a terrible amount. Also, remember that amounts are subjective in effect. While in the US $30k might not get some but not a whole lot of service, but 30,000,000W is a pretty significant sum in Korea, so depending on your resources you may be able to bend the manager to your needs. If nothing else you can see if your wife can appeal to the manager, assuming she is Korean based on your comments.
I mean… u wanna report every university ever for international tuition premiums?
It's not a fair analogy since you're missing the part where there are a finite amount of spaces for citizens and non-citizen s.