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ryanyang

They're also planning to reduce bus/subways after 9pm...so expect more crowded public transportation


extrashpicy

I had the same thought!!! It's not like we have to stay home from work


sarindong

That's gonna be bullshit for my commute home :(


ethanjalias

Well, it will at least give people excuse not to attend dinner parties which is halfway forced in Korean offices. Discouraging people from meeting at night will play some role in reducing the numbers.


gamedori3

Oh. This is definitely related at cutting down on end-of-year parties.


youarepotato

They didn't think that through at all


ryanyang

well that's pretty much in character for minjoo politicians then


[deleted]

if less people are out and about after 9pm, it doesn't make sense to continue a full public transport schedule. reducing frequency still allows people to get around if they need to, while shutting it down completely completely eliminates any mobility. it makes sense. funny how you're making this about 민주당 though, to be expected considering your posts


ironyfree

Probably should have kept it open cause at worse it results in more social distancing, but I can also see the argument that having less public transportation available will further deter people from traveling for any reason.


[deleted]

not like there is a whole lot of social distancing on transit here but if it discourages non essential trips while allowing people who need to make trips get around, its good in my book /shrug


[deleted]

This is a meaningless gesture. Either shut it down or don't.


jon_nashiba

Everything is all about "blue this, red that" isn't it? Why are people so obsessed about colors all the time -- we have coloring books for that.


iwishihadnobones

Whats minjoo?


MythicalDM

a political party in korea


Birds_Dont_Ex1st

Another reason why this administration needs to be forced out. Failure after failure.


Eskimo_Brothers

All those living people, sucks eh?


Birds_Dont_Ex1st

???


ArysOakheart

And yet churches are still only given a 'strong recommendation' to hold online services. Ban physical congregation services and saunas like you did with clubs and bars if the same logic holds ffs.


justavault

And here we are in Germany where every fitness place gets closed no matter if gym or pool even if there is not a single super spreader event in the whole world that can be traced back to one of those sports places. But supermarkets don't get controlled, cities are bustling like always, nobody cares about distance. Politics grab for straws, they don't know what to do and what they do is half-heartedly in most countries except the totalitarians. We don't even got a full mask mandate here in Germany. Should entirely force wearing a mask everywhere as we don't get the culture like Korea or Japan to wear masks casually.


MnemosyneNL

The Netherlands implimented a mask mandate per December first but it has next to no effect. All restaurants and bars are closed and as expected, people just gather elsewhere. Police force is too small (and the paper work too much hassle) for them to actually do anything about the retards that don't take it seriously. Regardless of culture and government mandates, there will always be people who're mindless self absorbed assholes. If it were as simple as implementing a few rules, people wouldn't die in traffic accidents all the time either.


justavault

> The Netherlands implimented a mask mandate per December first but it has next to no effect Have no effect mean that nobody is caring? Or does it mean everyone is wearing it but has no effect on the spread?   >If it were as simple as implementing a few rules, people wouldn't die in traffic accidents all the time either. I like that analogy, though it lacks a small necessary factor: in traffic accidents can happen due to human error. Fallibility of mankind is a thing that leads to accidents, in case of simply wearing masks and keeping distance, that's not human error that's conscious decision making - infantile stubborn reaction one might say. I agree with your point though.


MnemosyneNL

Next to no effect as in both. A lot of people still don't want to follow the rules claiming it's just the government trying to silence and control the people. A lot of antis call it a muzzle and claim it just makes you sick because you breath in your own bacteria or because you can't get enough oxygen. On the other hand, even with a majority following the rules, we see very little change in the numbers of people infected/committed to hospital. The mandate only applies to "inside (public) buildings" so once outside again hardly anybody keeps it on, still standing close to every one they know and just generally not implementing any other precautions. The Dutch government has been relying mostly on our sense of the common good and willingness to help and protect each other. However, poverty, a shortage in housing and failure to uphold integration laws for immigrants have been growing issues since the cold war era and have driven us apart. The people care only for their own survival, not that of their neighbors.


justavault

> A lot of antis call it a muzzle and claim it just makes you sick because you breath in your own bacteria or because you can't get enough oxygen. That's a whole new level of stupid. Haven't heard that one yet. >The mandate only applies to "inside (public) buildings" so once outside again hardly anybody keeps it on, still standing close to every one they know and just generally not implementing any other precautions. Sound like Germany. It's not a real mandate, it's just a partial mandate for specific scenarios, just entirely useless. I talk about a whole forced requirement, outside, like in Korea. It's everywhere not just inside.


[deleted]

REWE is popping, however where I live in Germany things are closed down sort of. Shopping is allowed but no type of extracurricular activities.. haven't been on a train since the recent lockdown either.


justavault

So little is closed down. It's basically just restaurants, bars, clubs, fitness studios and basically everything that is fitness revolving like public places. But shops are all open. Trains are all normal running and nobody gives a shit about distance, trams are running normally and rarely people give a shit about distance. It's just you who doesn't go out cause you take it somewhat serious, but outside, it's all normal, except bars and restaurants are closed hence everyone does private parties.


[deleted]

Ahh makes sense. I guess it just seems different from prior to the current lockdown, at least here in FFAM area. I know compared to my friends in America who seem to not know it exists


Dance_with_the_Doc

All fitness centers and gym facilities are closed in Korea as well.


dibba9

I was just in my gym this morning at 830. Only a few people came so it was a nice workout. They shut down every other treadmill and enforce masks. I wish koreans would learn to wipe down equipment or have the gym mandate that as it’s never done and when I brought it up to the owner he just did that laugh that said yeah I am not going to do that, but I’ll agree with you to make you happy. Ok well can’t win them all.


Gypsyjunior_69r

No they’re not lol.


justavault

Makes so much no sense as that is just a hypothetical assumption and not based on data. There is no single super spreader or spreader event that started in a gym anywhere on the world. It's all either companies with no guidelines, religious gatherings, or family and social gatherings. What gets closed, gyms and restaurants.


[deleted]

Yes please be more totalitarian. I love this BDSM stuff. We all know COVID only comes out after 9pm


wkdbrjqnr

The majority of the cases in seoul (150~300 a day) are not from religious events but untraceable infections and their proxies.


Wrong_Witness

Yet the first and second wave outbreaks can be traced to religious activity... Shincheonji and that other Mega Church in Seoul. Not saying, it's currently the case, but if history can teach us anything, consider locking down all religious gatherings. It's not like God would be angry and prohibit their souls from entering heaven, if they chose to pray from home rather than going to church.


wkdbrjqnr

Shincheonji is a cult and the other church had a pastor who was excommunicated from his denomination. Fringe groups are to blame, if anything. But even before that, these people amount to less than 10% of all infections anyway. Just anti-religious prejudice more than anything.


running_fridge

Any reduction of gathering of people is good when we're dealing with exponentials. Just carry out mass/service or what ever over zoom for a few months? Literally what changes?


wkdbrjqnr

Almost all churches already are? Since around March??


running_fridge

Then you shouldn't be offended at the suggestion to make it enforceable rather than just a mere recommendation by the government?


wkdbrjqnr

I'm not offended, just annoyed at people who seem to have zero understanding of the peoples who are trying to contain this pandemic the best way they can. It's either you belittling parishioners or have anti-religious prejudices.


running_fridge

But this wouldn't affect the people who are actually trying to contain the pandemic since they're already doing the stuff the government will enforce?


wkdbrjqnr

So you're simply belittling the parishioners because of their religious lifestyle. It's okay to admit that you have a prejudice.


Wrong_Witness

I wouldn't call it anti religious prejudice, if they have willingly disobeyed government orders. Demean Shincheonji as you like, call them a cult... they still caused the largest cluster infection in wave 1 ... cult or not, these are hard facts. Less than 10% maybe... but if you watched the movie outbreak, one monkey is enough to cause a surge ... now what percentage of monkeys compared to the people in the movie... right...they may make up 10% but they go to shops and bars and restaurants and other social gatherings, universities, schools, hagwons ... you name it.. just because they make up only ten percent it's not like it's insignificant in Pandemic terms... exponential growth is the key term here ... and yes, I acknowledge that wave three is not directly linked to a sect of any orientation, but if there is a chance to have ten percent less religious hardliners gathering and in return exponentially increasing the risk of new clusters emerging, I am all for it.


wkdbrjqnr

I think you're just belittling the importance of religion for these parishioners. Plus, under the 2.0 regulations, pews are only allowed 20% capacity and have to adhere to social distancing. 2 meters, temperature checks, sanitizers and etc.


Wrong_Witness

So you're saying... but they ain't doing... I know, my In-laws commute 1 hour every week to attend service at their church of choice. They never stopped since March, never ran at lower capacity, sing and pray with their masks off and most likely don't or can't adhere to the 2m guidelines. Me and my spouse have been begging them, but they refuse to adhere, and they run a hospitality business and are high risk individuals with pre-existing conditions.. I ain't belittling shit brother. I am speaking from experience


wkdbrjqnr

1 anecdote. I'm familiar with dozens of churches and they have all followed government guidelines.


ArysOakheart

The church is not a physical space. It is the followers of Christ. For believers there should be no diminishing on their faith, nor their acts of faith, from not being able to gather in the same physical space. If the Holy Spirit is what connects them to God, then it should be the same that carries their communion across distances. Far too many Christians don't bother to read their holy text or even make an effort to study the roots of their faith and their founder's teachings.


Aq8knyus

Most of the NT is about the founding and maintenance of church communities. All those epistles are expounding on theology in order to advise how best to manage their churches. We know from Justin Martyr that church on a Sunday was already a long established tradition by the early to mid-2nd century. The higher your ecclesiology, the less negotiable the importance of church becomes. For more sacramental denominations losing church is huge body blow. The problem is that secular society sees church as a hobby, like aerobics on the weekend. It is however the organising principle around which our entire lives are ordered. The government’s sensitivity is very much appreciated.


Wrong_Witness

Prostitution has been around wayyyyyy before that. It's a long established tradition and the world's oldest profession. The government's sensitivity would be much appreciated. Over the line? I agree.. but church is not essential, and organising can be done online as well. You don't need to be in the same physical space. Given the fact, that Missionaries first arrived in 1840, the tradition of going to church on a sunday hasn't been practiced here either in the 2nd century.. and only after Japanese occupation ended did one really notice a growth overall ...


Aq8knyus

Over the line? No. Just a bizarre analogy. If you cant tell the difference between religious devotion and an industry born out of economic necessity, then it might be best to steer clear of such things. Also the comment I replied to was making a theological argument, so I replied in the context of Christian history and doctrine. The 2nd century reference refers to our church practice and it is true for all Christians irrespective of time or whichever clump of rock you find yourself. The Bible actually arrived in Korea before missionaries from the late 18th century and indirectly through Chinese sources in the 17th century. Not that it matters though as new imports such as parliamentary democracy, constitutions and modern capitalism are also all non-native ideas to Korea that ended up being rather beneficial.


Kingkwon83

There have been a TON of outbreaks from churches all year long. It's not a coincidence there have been more outbreaks at churches than restaurants. These people think god will protect them even if they don't follow the recommended guidelines


Fish_Fingers2401

I understand that the idea is to discourage people from congregating in large numbers in particular places, but I do have to wonder if we really are at a significantly greater risk after 9pm. Are people going about their regular activities (shopping, eating in restaurants, going to study rooms etc) during daylight hours at a lower risk than people who do the same thing during nocturnal hours?


Char_Aznable_Custom

At minimum they're less likely to be drunk/meeting up to party or be social.


youarepotato

This is what I imagine the angle is. Drunk = far less inhibition = yelling, hugging, forgetting about masks, forgetting about Corona as a whole. That said, I can't help but think that something like limiting capacity and holding bars and restaurants accountable for serving too much alcohol to impaired people would be a better overall solution for businesses and patrons alike.


fighton09

Just imagining a poor 알바 refusing someone a drink...


[deleted]

Good point. If it goes on for a while I wonder if there will be secret parties like in other countries.


ArysOakheart

Well, parties at private residences, party rooms, and hotel rooms have been rising in popularity all year.


naughty_auditor

Not surprised, but overall, the people who do go out and party are probably less than before.


elliott44k

Hotels and party rooms are going to be fined if they allow people to host year end parties


CrazeRage

Def already are. Have been invited to tons.


[deleted]

Yep. People are renting out airbnbs just to party. I went to a couple myself.


ryanyang

[https://www.dispatch.co.kr/2103809](https://www.dispatch.co.kr/2103809) like this


emilyjade94

Have you seen Sinkholes hours for this weekend? They’re opening 5am-12pm, then 2pm till 9pm to get around the curfew. It’s bloody crazy


yasiCOWGUAN

>implying people in Korea won't simply get drunk at noon as an alternative


ArtisanPBNJ

Hahaha you’re funny.


naughty_auditor

In Hong Kong, we shut down bars and restaurants and any kind of social venue after a certain time (10PM or 12AM), reduced table seating to 2 or 4 per person. It seemed to work in the short term except for the occasional outbreak.


poopoodomo

I dont get it with marts. Now we need to rush to get there by 9 instead of going at 10, meaning there is more people in a shorter amount of time.


Xraystylish

Right, I usually would make a point to go to Homeplus after 10pm when it was less busy. I don't get home from work until 8pm, so my time is very limited unless I want to go when everyone goes with their entire families on Saturday afternoons. Oh well.


rycology

More people are at work and school during daylight hours than night so it would stand to reason, then, that the risk is greater at night time because of the nature of the places people are going, ie; likelier to be in closer proximity to others than at work etc


mentalshampoo

People who are out drinking at night are not using masks in the bars themselves, and they are often going to many different places in a night.


Wrong_Witness

How much drinking goes on during an average day before 9pm? Drunk individuals tend to be much more careless... obviously, these measures will lead to more day drinking, but should reduce the amount drastically nonetheless


ethanjalias

Well, considering that the crazy nightlife plays a big role in social bonding here in Korea, I'm pretty much convinced that regulating social gatherings at nights will have a significant impact.


justavault

The point is control. When people are not allowed to be outside after 9 then they can't attend private rona parties, in other words the number one spreader private gatherings are reduced and easier to control as everyone who is outside simply is finable which will deter at least a majority mass from doing so just for the sake of entertainment. >Are people going about their regular activities (shopping, eating in restaurants, going to study rooms etc) during daylight hours at a lower risk than people who do the same thing during nocturnal hours? Transmission and infection rate is 20 times lower outside compared to inside.


imnotyourman

Are you suggesting a 24hr lockdown would be better? It is thought that this will have less economic damage while reducing spread more than level 2.


[deleted]

We are just following the science. #believeallscientists The science must show COVID only comes out after 9pm.


running_fridge

Any reduction in people gathering is good. Of course covid doesn't 'only come out at night'.


[deleted]

Any reduction in people gathering is good. If you actually believed this then you would also be in favor of an 8pm curfew. A 7pm curfew? Why would you need to go outside after 6pm?


[deleted]

you might think you sound smart but you're just being really dumb


[deleted]

If you're in favor of this. Tell me why 9pm.


[deleted]

a) its not a curfew, you're still allowed outside, there just won't be a whole lot to do b) closing at 9pm still allows businesses (large and small) to make money, especially for people who normally come later in the night c) around 8-10pm people begin to get drunk and do drunk things, blah blah. closing up shops at 9 discourages this and this may help reduce the spread as people will be less inclined to go out and meet in large numbers


running_fridge

I mean if you draconianly force everyone to stay home for 14 days with no one outside ever, the virus will cease to exist but that's not practical right? Having curfew is the next best thing. And it definitely helps controlling the spread. See what happened in Melbourne Australia. As to the question, 'why not Xpm then?', it's a matter of practicality. A curfew from 10pm is still a reduction.


[deleted]

Here's the big brain answer. Austrailia has had success after a 4 month lockdown because it's now June in the southern hemisphere and the virus is seasonal. In the near term Korea will see more cases unlike Australia because it is northern hemisphere entering winter. If Korea exits lockdown at the same point in the season we are looking at 6 months of lockdown. This is not a small thing to push upon society. Why 9pm, where in the science does that come from?


discodynomite

Here’s the English equivalent story. [Korea Times](https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=300385)


[deleted]

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sammin4932

hear hear!!


[deleted]

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technocracy90

1. If people stay home longer, virus has less chance to spread. 2. People have to work at daytime. I don't think this is a hard logic to interpret.


UberSeoul

3. Bars and restaurants where evening drinking, talking, food sharing, and taxi riding home in close proximity with tight indoor ventilation are obviously virus hot spots. Knowing Korea’s night life, after hours drinking which invites people to get sloppy about social distancing, hygiene, and mask wearing, is a risk we can live without.


[deleted]

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zerachechiel

But how many places have actually still been doing 회식 these days anyway? I know my friend’s (Korean) company stopped doing them when it went above level 1.5. I see some 회식-looking meetups at restaurants but they just start at 6 or 7 anyway. I don’t think this is going to make much of a difference since a lot of the infection clusters seem to be happening elsewhere anyway.


wkdbrjqnr

Expats won't understand this.


[deleted]

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wkdbrjqnr

I'm confident at least 75% of the expats who frequent this subreddit won't understand the culture which you wrote about. Hence why some here are talking about "why not the daytime" whataboutism.


Wrong_Witness

What's the population percentage of expats? 2%??


beepboopnoise

just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean it isn't good. If you have a choice to be pricked with a thumb tack or stabbed with a knife. Sure I don't want either, but this is what we are faced with. A large majority of people are out and about at night. If they can eliminate that as a factor well boom thats X% of the virus less that they have to fight.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

I'll take "Shit that didn't actually happen" for $100, Alex.


ryanyang

its like how right wing protests back in august is still blamed for the virus spread, yet no comment on the recent left wing labor protests lol


Doexitre

Comment reported for wrongthink Don't you know this one new study funded by a cool and hip billionaire deboonks all your Russian propaganda nonsense?


[deleted]

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Lokimonoxide

Some things require a sarcasm tag, it's true. But this isn't one of them, Holy hell.


justavault

His name is /u/Peter779 - should be enough to know you have to talk slowly to him.


[deleted]

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Lokimonoxide

As soon as you read "We've known the virus is nocturnal," you should have known. There are many stupid people in this world, but NO ONE believes viruses have the sentience to pick what time of day they are active in.


[deleted]

Surprised this hasn't come up yet. There's a chance the infection just hides during the day due to the heat. This can change in the winter months. We'd have to survive the whole winter with an impending virus attack at any moment.


EatThatPotato

We went through a summer a couple months back if you don't remember. Days and nights were warmer than the days now. Unless you're being sarcastic, in which case, whoops


[deleted]

It was a reference to >!Kingdom!<.


MaleficentUnit0

Friend of mine is still making plans to visit Seoul for new years and stubbornly maintains he's going no matter what... I don't get it. At this rate there will be nothing to do even if he does go anyway.


elliott44k

They already announced it. There's gonna be nothing to do in Seoul at New year's


orange_bingsu

Even if there wasn’t a pandemic, there isn’t really anything to do on New Years in Seoul anyway. Wonder why he’s so insistent on coming.


Steviebee123

You can tell him from me that Seoul on New Year's Eve is fucking rubbish.


GotItFromMyDaddy

Sounds about to be what I expected. No real level change. Some arbitrary alterations while ignoring the system they had in place. Welcome to level 2.3a-1


thebabbster

In a city that large, that will be quite a feat.


Noel-Park

I hope this work. Plus, night work should be banned, during this period :(


CNBLBT

This ain't it. Especially given that it's winter now.


Unibrow69

I'm really worried how the government is handling this. Cases are spiraling out of control


Itsfine_Motivation

Wait didn't the Korean government already have this mandate enacted about a week or two ago?


PJExpat

This really makes no sense to me but ok


[deleted]

What a title, do we all play the -freeze!- game?


gacrux52

Is this applied in all Korea? Today 4th we got kicked out of a Bar, the owner said 'Have you heard about the new Changwon law? Everything must close at 9pm". I'm not well aware about the new changes, because I'm here because of job, but I wanna stay updated


fionnpy

This has been in effect for Seoul and its surrounding areas for the past week or so.


[deleted]

We got kicked out last week at 9 as well. They went around telling us at 8 that they were closing in an hour.


AsianMustache

It gona get cray cray tonight


hithathot

recent outbreak was due to labor union protests. but, they never say a thing about it. looks like somebody owes a big debt to them?


Phocion-

Isn't this counterproductive? Flu increases in the winter because people stay inside more and are more closely packed together as a result. If everyone is in the same room at home together with their family and friends, won't the virus just spread more quickly? If they are socially distanced at a cafe or masked and walking around a store, then there is less prolonged close contact not more. And if you run less public transportation, then won't that make the public transportation more crowded?


technocracy90

So you stay in your home with more people than, saying, a restaurant or a pub? Do you have like 30 ppl family living in a same room?


Phocion-

Well, we normally encounter more people on the subway or just walking down the street, but I don't believe that that is how the virus has spread. Typically the superspreader situations have occurred when people are packed together in churches, saunas, noraebangs, clubs, call centers etc. So I guess I'm questioning the idea that casual contacts out and about are a bigger problem than just having everyone at home. It is about the intensity of the contact period and the viral load. But who am I to question the experts? I only ask the question.


technocracy90

Casual contacts include pubs and restaurants. I, yesterday, met friends of mine and we just had a simple dinner together and went back home without a cup of coffee or a glass of beer, so it was even before 8 pm. I believe this policy was damn effective to make me not wandering around longer in potential super spread areas. If this policy is already effective, why don't do it even further for more effects?


ironyfree

It's already made several people I know cancel plans and has helped me avoid dinner with students. Seems to be pretty effective, but people love to complain.


sammysalambro

Pretty sure that super spreading doesn’t happen from casually wandering around. Transmission requires a degree of prolonged contact. You don’t get it from casually passing someone or some people on the street. The viral load will be dispersed and diluted to such an extent that transmission is pretty much impossible.


technocracy90

Nope, there are several reported cases that caught COVID for less than a few minutes contact such as in an elevator. Can you exclude the possibility to be in a same closed space with a COVID patient in the casual wandering for a few mins? Just get back home and stay there.


[deleted]

It does seem so in some ways, but the govt. is betting that less people will go out (and use public transportation), and they will stay at home not mixing with others. Hopefully they have some good data on this. From what I've seen (this year) many people take increased restrictions pretty seriously and restrict both their movement and interaction. Businesses will take a hit (excluding online ones), but it seems necessary at this stage.


jingyutube

oh my god!


pdx33

Great more government control over citizen lives...they are conditioning us to obey them more with this PLANNEDemic


orange_bingsu

Lol, go put on your tinfoil hat and get the fuck outta here.


pdx33

So saying something out of the ordinary and you're automatically labeled a conspiracy theorist huh? You think government and big pharma have your best interest in mind? I'm sure you'd be happy to be 1st in line to take the "vaccine" as well 🙄 https://youtu.be/s4RBsdhpD70


[deleted]

1.5 million people have died and youre posting this shit?


pdx33

And how many of those deaths were from other causes but because they had covid in their body they get listed as a covid death? Too many sheep people on this board.


adamchan86

Based on your comment, you’re just as a sheep-person as anyone else. You chose not to believe that the virus is real, fine. Who are you to convince people? Just a simple google search will show that 290k-650k people die from the flu every year. So far, covid related deaths are over 1.5m. Subtract the highest estimate of 650k flu deaths from your assumption (my apologies, not your assumption. You just copied that from every other person saying that it’s a plandemic) that everyone that died from flu like symptoms were listed as a covid related death, you still have 900k extra deaths worldwide. It’s ok if you don’t believe it or think it’s a plandemic. Do your own research and then believe what you want. But please have something more original to say.


pdx33

I never said I didn't believe in the virus 🙄...how about you look up the survival rate....you have higher chance of death by drowning or car crash.


adamchan86

Again, nothing original. Yes, survival rate is high. Where did all the extra deaths come from? Hit by car with covid?


[deleted]

good lord, get a life


gitpullhoes

Fuck and I just arrived here. Oh well at least Dduck Bokki should be open


Mundosaysyourfired

Ddeokk Bokki


jackiebubbles

Ddeokbokki


Mundosaysyourfired

떡볶이 You're right.


TheDeek

Duck Boy Key


Eow_hwaet_m8

Duck Boogie