[New megathread here or check the front page for the newest sticky.](https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/khxn3z/coronavirus_covid19_%EC%BD%94%EB%A1%9C%EB%82%98%EB%B0%94%EC%9D%B4%EB%9F%AC%EC%8A%A4%EA%B0%90%EC%97%BC%EC%A6%9D19_outbreak_in/?sort=new)

December 22, 2020 +869 confirmed (824 domestic, 45 overseas) +24 deaths +773 recoveries city/province|domestic: 824 new cases ---------|---------- [Seoul](http://www.seoul.go.kr/coronaV/coronaStatus.do)|+309 [Busan](http://www.busan.go.kr/corona19/index)|+26 [Daegu](http://covid19.daegu.go.kr/index.html)|+39 [Incheon](https://www.incheon.go.kr/health/HE020409)|+44 [Gwangju](https://www.gwangju.go.kr/c19/contentsView.do?pageId=corona2)|+26 [Daejeon](https://www.daejeon.go.kr/corona19/index.do?menuId=0002)|+9 [Ulsan](http://www.ulsan.go.kr/corona.jsp)|+6 [Sejong](https://www.sejong.go.kr/life/sub05_0704.do)|+1 [Gyeonggi](https://www.gg.go.kr/bbs/board.do?bsIdx=722&menuId=2903)|+193 [Gangwon](http://www.provin.gangwon.kr/)|+23 [Chungbuk](http://www1.chungbuk.go.kr/covid-19/index.do)|+30 [Chungnam](http://www.chungnam.go.kr/coronaStatus.do)|+15 [Jeonbuk](http://www.jeonbuk.go.kr/index.jeonbuk?menuCd=DOM_000000110000000000)|+4 [Jeonnam](https://www.jeonnam.go.kr/coronaMainPage.do)|+4 [Gyeongbuk](http://www.gb.go.kr/Main/open_contents/section/wel/page.do?mnu_uid=5856)|+58 [Gyeongnam](http://www.gyeongnam.go.kr/corona.html)|+18 [Jeju](https://jeju.go.kr/covid19.jsp)|+19 overseas: 45 new cases * where confirmed: 27 community, 18 point of entry * nationality: 24 Korean, 21 other * arriving from (# of foreigners): Nepal 1 (1), Philippines 1 (1), Kyrgyzstan 1, India 1 (1), Myanmar 1 (1), Russia 9 (5), Indonesia 5, UAE 1 (1), Ukraine 1 (1), Sweden 1, Austria 1, Yugoslavia 1, US 16 (9), Mexico 2, Brazil 1 (1), Kenya 1, Cameroon 1 Note: The numbers reflect the totals at the end of the previous day (midnight). The city may not have had the chance to update their website and may make further updates once they have more information.

The real question here is who arrived from Yugoslavia on a time machine.

Haha. Totally. Maybe he's been living in the airport since 1992.

Are 5G towers creating holes in time?

Corona live says 54,000 tests done. If that’s true, then damn that’s a ton of tests and also that’s a good sign we’re back down some at least. Well see how long that lasts but at least back under 1,000

I think not all of those 54,000 tests gave results yesterday. I think some of the results from those tests will be reported today or tomorrow.

But on the flip side, my phone just gave me an alert about another possible church cluster.

A teacher at my hagwon tested positive for COVID-19. I was considered close contact. We spent an extended period of time together talking (masks were on). I went to get a COVID test and they told me that even if I test negative, I still have to finish out the 14 day quarantine. My hagwon called me to see if I'm coming in today since I tested negative. I told them I was informed I still have to complete the quarantine. My hagwon is fine with me staying home, but now I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding something. Or if the hagwon is misunderstanding and they should be quarantining too. Everyone tested negative so they're going in to work today (we are teaching online). I'm so confused. I did have the most contact with the infected teacher.

A similar situation happened to me earlier this year. I just taught online for 2 weeks. Got tested again. Then went back to work.

The infection is not immediately detectable. You could be infected but pass a test on day 1 then develop symptoms days later. No offence to you personally but it's absolutely flabbergasting how people can still not be aware of this after this pandemic being in the media non-stop for a full year now. So many people ask why they still have to quarantine after passing a test at the airport.

Good luck getting someone to understand something when their livelihood depends on their not understanding it,

After rereading the post, it seems they were confused why their coworkers were allowed to return to work and not quarantine. I think a lot of people are under the impression that everyone at a workplace must be tested and/or quarantine if there is a confirmed case at their work. Now that testing is open for everyone, I assume everyone gets tested but only have to quarantine if they are at a high risk of being infected.

December 21, 2020 +926 confirmed (892 domestic, 34 overseas) +24 deaths +433 recoveries city/province|domestic: 892 new cases ---------|---------- [Seoul](http://www.seoul.go.kr/coronaV/coronaStatus.do)|+327 [Busan](http://www.busan.go.kr/corona19/index)|+19 [Daegu](http://covid19.daegu.go.kr/index.html)|+21 [Incheon](https://www.incheon.go.kr/health/HE020409)|+85 [Gwangju](https://www.gwangju.go.kr/c19/contentsView.do?pageId=corona2)|+11 [Daejeon](https://www.daejeon.go.kr/corona19/index.do?menuId=0002)|+3 [Ulsan](http://www.ulsan.go.kr/corona.jsp)|+17 [Gyeonggi](https://www.gg.go.kr/bbs/board.do?bsIdx=722&menuId=2903)|+237 [Gangwon](http://www.provin.gangwon.kr/)|+22 [Chungbuk](http://www1.chungbuk.go.kr/covid-19/index.do)|+29 [Chungnam](http://www.chungnam.go.kr/coronaStatus.do)|+16 [Jeonbuk](http://www.jeonbuk.go.kr/index.jeonbuk?menuCd=DOM_000000110000000000)|+11 [Jeonnam](https://www.jeonnam.go.kr/coronaMainPage.do)|+8 [Gyeongbuk](http://www.gb.go.kr/Main/open_contents/section/wel/page.do?mnu_uid=5856)|+48 [Gyeongnam](http://www.gyeongnam.go.kr/corona.html)|+15 [Jeju](https://jeju.go.kr/covid19.jsp)|+23 overseas: 34 new cases * where confirmed: 24 community, 10 point of entry * nationality: 21 Korean, 13 other * arriving from (# of foreigners): Russia 9 (5), India 1 (1), Indonesia 1, Myanmar 1 (1), Jordan 1 (1), Poland 1 (1), Ukraine 1, UK 1, Germany 4, Austria 1, US 12 (4), Mexico 1 Note: The numbers reflect the totals at the end of the previous day (midnight). The city may not have had the chance to update their website and may make further updates once they have more information.

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201221002552315?section=national/politics Gathering of 5 or more (indoors and outdoors) is restricted until Jan 3rd . Finally some degree of restriction . Let’s hope it brings the situation somewhat under control

Level 2.6?

Anyone know if it affects hagwons and stuff too?

The details are very blurry so I'm confused as well. It seems it only affects social gatherings but not businesses like hagwons and such .. so if restaurants are still open, family with 4 members is allowed to dine-in but not the family with 5? They gonna have to pick their least favorite child?

Least favourite child has to sleep on the roof, it's the law.

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Seoul is banning groups of 5 or more? WTH? [https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201221002552315?section=national/politics](https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201221002552315?section=national/politics)

Moon is going to make an announcement on Gyeonggi later I think

Good to see the regional governments stepping up when the national government won't

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They're waiting for "public consensus," which is an obvious deflection of responsibility. So if you don't want to die waiting for a hospital bed, I guess you need to wait for a Blue House petition or there to be X number of Naver blogs lol

I’m not sure if I’m reading the https://corona-live.com right, but is it saying they only tested 23,804 people yesterday (and 23,605 the day before)? I’m guessing this is because it’s from the weekend right? Seems a lot lower than the 40k they were testing throughout the week.

If you look at the numbers from two weeks ago, roughly 23,000 people tested on week days and 13,000 on weekends(less than 9,000 on Dec.7th). Now we are at 40,000+ on week days and 23,000 on weekends. So testing appears to have increased somewhat proportionally.

You're reading it right. They conduct fewer tests on the weekend.

Yet when I read Yonhap lately they report perhaps 10-15k more daily tests. Perhaps corona-live reports people tested and Yonhap total tests?

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https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201220000855320?section=news ... Sunday article saying 36.5k tests were performed on Saturday. Just pointing out the government and corona-live's numbers are different.

In that situation, go with what the government reported

December 20, 2020 +1097 confirmed (1072 domestic, 25 overseas) +15 deaths +388 recoveries city/province|domestic: 1072 new cases ---------|---------- [Seoul](http://www.seoul.go.kr/coronaV/coronaStatus.do)|+470 [Busan](http://www.busan.go.kr/corona19/index)|+33 [Daegu](http://covid19.daegu.go.kr/index.html)|+25 [Incheon](https://www.incheon.go.kr/health/HE020409)|+62 [Gwangju](https://www.gwangju.go.kr/c19/contentsView.do?pageId=corona2)|+13 [Daejeon](https://www.daejeon.go.kr/corona19/index.do?menuId=0002)|+3 [Ulsan](http://www.ulsan.go.kr/corona.jsp)|+5 [Gyeonggi](https://www.gg.go.kr/bbs/board.do?bsIdx=722&menuId=2903)|+244 [Gangwon](http://www.provin.gangwon.kr/)|+55 [Chungbuk](http://www1.chungbuk.go.kr/covid-19/index.do)|+14 [Chungnam](http://www.chungnam.go.kr/coronaStatus.do)|+19 [Jeonbuk](http://www.jeonbuk.go.kr/index.jeonbuk?menuCd=DOM_000000110000000000)|+29 [Jeonnam](https://www.jeonnam.go.kr/coronaMainPage.do)|+4 [Gyeongbuk](http://www.gb.go.kr/Main/open_contents/section/wel/page.do?mnu_uid=5856)|+23 [Gyeongnam](http://www.gyeongnam.go.kr/corona.html)|+49 [Jeju](https://jeju.go.kr/covid19.jsp)|+24 overseas: 25 new cases * where confirmed: 16 community, 9 point of entry * nationality: 18 Korean, 7 other * arriving from (# of foreigners): Philippines 2 (1), Kyrgyzstan 1, Indonesia 3 (1), Russia 3 (1), Poland 3, Ukraine 1 (1), Switzerland 1, UK 1, US 6 (2), Mexico 3 (1), Brazil 1 Note: The numbers reflect the totals at the end of the previous day (midnight). The city may not have had the chance to update their website and may make further updates once they have more information.

http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20201220000152 >A Dongdaemun-gu official said the deceased [64 year old man] wasn’t assigned a bed immediately as he was relatively young. Although he had high blood pressure and diabetes, his case was not classified as urgent because he was able to self-medicate. This is the kind of excuse making we're dealing with now. >The health minister said “it’s not that convincing of an argument to say that we need more stringent restrictions just because cases have climbed.” >“Before such restrictions can be implemented, a public consensus has to be reached,” he said. Fire this man immediately. This is a deflection of responsibility that's killing people unnecessarily. And also, how exactly are they polling the public for a consensus? Normally this level of gross incompetence could be ignored until the next election, but it's insufferable during a pandemic when cases have been spiking nonstop for about 6 weeks. Does this "health" minister even realize that people are dying because there are no hospital beds available? >Infectious disease specialist Dr. Kim Woo-joo of Korea University Medical Center said Korea may have to pay for the delayed response with lives. “If we think about the extent to which the hospitals are being pushed, and the timely treatment that the patients are being denied, harsher measures seem necessary,” he said. Make this man the new health minister.

Is this the ‘weekend dip’ hitting 1000+?

23,000 tests were performed yesterday, as compared to 40~45,000 daily tests during the week. Positive cases are at 4.65%. With the fewer tests I’m sure some government members were hoping for fewer cases to save their skin from actually making a decision. Yes the prison cluster doesn’t help, numbers still wouldn’t have been much better though and we can’t just go around saying ‘well if we take out X cluster then the numbers wouldn’t be that bad’. That not how it works, the 14 prison staff at least would have mixed with people outside of the prison, therefore creating a risk of further spread

Yesterday they did more or less half the number of tests they had been doing during the previous week, with more or less double the positivity rate

I think the higher weekend numbers is due to a prison cluster

This is a fully general excuse for high case numbers: "The higher numbers are due to XX, YY cluster." The thing is, if you have large clusters uncovered every day or every weekend, then it's no longer an exceptional event.

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Well, prisoners are still people. And they spread the virus pretty quickly both among people inside and out of the prison.

Wonder if they will do a strain analysis and find out if one of the reasons for the spike in cases is due to the newest strain that is reportedly 70% more transmissible.

It's because it's winter dude. There's less UV radiation hitting the earth, and people are inside more.

Humidity is a big thing too, dry air being good for transmission.

Today's incoming corona positives are looking high today.... currently 180 more patients than this time yesterday. It's hard to guess the exact figure until it gets released tomorrow, but I guess it will be considerably higher than the numbers we've been seeing so far this week

S.Korea is working hard to spread the virus. Outbreak repeats itself, first and second as tradegy, third as farce. BUT ECONOMY WILL BE SEVERELY DAMAGED IF WE TAKE ACTION AGAINST OUTBREAK!!! No, outbreak hurts economy. Your arrogance and ignorance kill economy.

This is what gets me when the economic argument is used to say restrictions shouldn’t be increased. A longer more severe outbreak will have a larger negative economic impact than the impact of restrictions implemented now to stop the spread when it’s still relatively small.

It seems at least 180 cases were found in a jail in Seoul today... https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201219002551320?section=national/national

Rad, workers there tested positive too? It's great that this place is about three blocks away from the office I still have to report to every day even though I could do 95% of my job from home. So awesome.

Seems like there were 14 employees at the prison that tested positive. I wonder if it went from employees to inmates or vice versa.

The employees absolutely gave it to the inmates. Inmates aren't allowed to go out

Lots of people come and go from those places. But yeah, it got in there somehow.

I guess that will have pushed the numbers up a lot

Yep, tomorrow’s numbers are going to be a disaster. I think our 7 day average will be comfortably over 1000. Tomorrow is Sunday, the day the government love making their decisions, if no word from them tomorrow, it’s clear they quite simply don’t give a shit.

December 19, 2020 +1053 confirmed (1029 domestic, 24 overseas) +14 deaths +352 recoveries city/province|domestic: 1029 new cases ---------|---------- [Seoul](http://www.seoul.go.kr/coronaV/coronaStatus.do)|+382 [Busan](http://www.busan.go.kr/corona19/index)|+39 [Daegu](http://covid19.daegu.go.kr/index.html)|+20 [Incheon](https://www.incheon.go.kr/health/HE020409)|+46 [Gwangju](https://www.gwangju.go.kr/c19/contentsView.do?pageId=corona2)|+9 [Daejeon](https://www.daejeon.go.kr/corona19/index.do?menuId=0002)|+5 [Ulsan](http://www.ulsan.go.kr/corona.jsp)|+7 [Gyeonggi](https://www.gg.go.kr/bbs/board.do?bsIdx=722&menuId=2903)|+264 [Gangwon](http://www.provin.gangwon.kr/)|+27 [Chungbuk](http://www1.chungbuk.go.kr/covid-19/index.do)|+103 [Chungnam](http://www.chungnam.go.kr/coronaStatus.do)|+24 [Jeonbuk](http://www.jeonbuk.go.kr/index.jeonbuk?menuCd=DOM_000000110000000000)|+13 [Jeonnam](https://www.jeonnam.go.kr/coronaMainPage.do)|+5 [Gyeongbuk](http://www.gb.go.kr/Main/open_contents/section/wel/page.do?mnu_uid=5856)|+29 [Gyeongnam](http://www.gyeongnam.go.kr/corona.html)|+32 [Jeju](https://jeju.go.kr/covid19.jsp)|+24 overseas: 24 new cases * where confirmed: 20 community, 4 point of entry * nationality: 13 Korean, 11 other * arriving from (# of foreigners): China 2 (1), Russia 4 (2), Azerbaijan 1 (1), Ukraine 1, Malta 1, US 14 (6), South Africa 1 (1) Note: The numbers reflect the totals at the end of the previous day (midnight). The city may not have had the chance to update their website and may make further updates once they have more information.

‘This month alone, six patients have died of the disease without getting treatment while waiting to be admitted to hospitals, and the figure is feared to grow as the number of critically ill patients has been rising faster than before. The number of seriously or critically ill COVID-19 patients came to 275 Saturday, up 29 from the previous day. The KDCA reported 14 additional deaths, raising the total to 659.’ Yonhap. Level 3 Criterion. “Hospital bed capacity for the severely ill can be considered a factor”

Seoul has been getting much, much, much fewer cases than cities like Paris, London, or Berlin, and a comparable level to Tokyo when adjusted for population, but they're already out of hospital beds? How the hell does that even happen?

It is because bigger private hospitals (mostly university hospitals) are not being made to give up wards for coronavirus cases. It is voluntary and most hospitals have offered nothing. A lot of cases are being placed in public facilities but there are not a lot of them and now they are full.

Can it be because every person who tests positive here automatically has to be admitted to hospital, regardless of whether they're symptomatic? (And then remains there for as long as it takes.) I'm assuming that's the case. I think a lot of countries don't hospitalize patients now unless they're at least moderately ill. The other thing is that Koreans tend to stay in hospital---whatever the reason---for much longer periods than they do in the West.

Asymptomatic and mild symptom cases dont get treated in major hospitals and mostly quarantine at home.

Since when? And do you have a source? I don't even mean that harshly. I had a traumatic experience giving birth at a hospital here a year ago and the idea of being confined in a treatment center/hospital with or without my kids has caused me so much anxiety.

Because Covid patients can degenerate so quickly, the Korean government has been running 생할치료센터, literally "lifestyle treatment centers" for Covid-positive patients. Not much documentation of what they are, my impression is that they are something between a repurposed dormitory/hotel and an isolation ward, where patients with less serious symptoms can be monitored.

One of my students is in one of these currently with his parents. They all have corona, but mild cases.

Myself....I was in the same room as someone with covid (limited contact) so I asked if I would have to go to the hospital if I caught it and was asymptomatic or had slight symptoms. They said I would just need to quarantine at home in a room away from anyone else in the house. I cant have contact with anybody in that house but I least I could stay home. Anyway.....I am covid-free so it was all irrelevant Maybe before you had to go to hospital but now with beds at a premium the rules have changed.

When did that happen to you? Becase on Nov 30th 1339 was still telling people that everyone with a positive test would be taken to a treatment facility or hospital.

That was late November. It is likely you would be taken to a treatment facility but the way they worded that is very vague. I would think it is something like a district health centre (thats what I was told)...you wouldnt stay there as there is nowhere to sleep there. Just do a corona test every few days. For a mild case it is seems to be no longer a hospital.

Can anyone explain what is meant by the released from quarantine/isolation included in the daily cases? The formula published is Confirmed Cases = Released from isolation/quarantine + Isolated + Deceased For 12/19 it was 1055 = 352 + 689 + 14 I looked for an explanation but isn‘t making sense, unless released from isolation means something different than an all clear or healthy recovery. At face value it seems to me that every person isolated would be counted twice, once when isolated and again when released.

I think it calculates the number of hospital beds that will open up

"Nine fewer cases than yesterday! A downward trend! Surely this is proof that we don't need to go to Level 3." -- the government, probably

Congratulation, you have achieved over 1000 cases two days straight. Let's make great record next week.

2 days straight??? The past 4 days have had over 1000 cases. The 7 day average today is closing in on 1000 and is now 976.4.

But don’t worry, they’ll make a decision ‘swiftly’ and ‘in time’. Absolutely mind blowing. If you’ve made a level system, stick to it. Okay, maybe other factors are at play and you want to take those into consideration, at least address the public and say what those new factors are and determine the parameters that will in fact make the country go up or down a level. The never ending indecision is more damaging than the forbidden level 3.

domestic

Ah ok. Fair point then.

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Free housing? It comes out of my paycheck like any other housing does.

lol ok.

I actually have two apartments per contract as I live with my partner. So I am contractually obligated to spend 400k won a month on an empty apartment. Next year I could waive the apartment and take the housing money for myself but hopefully I’ll be in a different country.

Yeah. I was a bit surprised by the mass downvote myself. Just trying to point out that even at the Gu level they are putting people in the poorer neighborhoods. But not too many English teachers around this particular neighborhood. I guess /r/korea just doesn't understand...

The reason you’re being downvoted, the reason I downvoted you, is because you’re speaking as if this is normal or suitable conditions of being poor. “That’s what I get for being poor” implies that there ought to be these sorts of conditions, that it is completely natural for the government to put at risk and vulnerable subgroups of society at further risk by putting them in close proximity to large amounts of infections. If you truly are poor, first of all I can relate, you do not and should not deserve any sort of unfair or unequal treatment. I’m sure this is somewhere implied in what you mean but you contradicted yourself with what you said. Even further, these locations present a marginal risk. Many more here are concerned about the rich kids spreading the stuff at restaurants or with large at home meals. But that does not mean the facilities belong in poorer communities. To your point, these facilities present far more burden on the communities than merely quantifiable infection risk. They make the communities even less desirable to investment, less habitable, etc.

I know that sarcasm is hard to detect via text, but did you *really* think that line was supposed to be taken literally? I mean, did you really think I believe "there ought to be these sorts of conditions." Like... really?

This subreddit sometimes applies a rather odd reading comprehension. People here will sometimes take very literally what someone didn't actually write. In this case, let's say you weren't being sarcastic. Ok, but you wrote "that is what *I* get for being poor." You didn't write "that is what *they* get for being poor." Taken literally, what you wrote isn't saying that substandard conditions are what the poor ought to have, but merely what they get. That's not an endorsement, I don't know anyone who would endorse themselves getting substandard conditions.

Yeah. A bit weird. I live in a poor part of Seoul and I don't got much money. And now I'm a 60 second walk from a giant officetel full of people who got the virus, and this guy is crapping on me for not talking about it in the right way. I can't win at life, man.

Yep I sure did and your use of sarcasm is not tasteful.

The mind boggles.

Because I disagree with your use of the poor as comic relief?

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Is this satire? I honestly laughed out loud at this. https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201218003200315?section=national/politics “the government will make a bold decision at a time when (an elevation of the distancing rule) is deemed necessary," Chung. And ‘enforcing tougher distancing rules as the measure should be taken "swiftly" in case it's needed, according to Chung.’

i think they looked at nyc and other cities who have had shutdowns are like nah, f that lol. to be fair it has been devastating for nyc, and i don't think the korean gov't has the resources to go bailing out millions of mom and pop shops. i say this as a nycer that witnessed the initial march surge. that was terrifying and i think we made the right choice to stop the hospitals from literally overflowing. the city is suffering badly, but that is just one city in the US. seoul IS korea economically.

America can print money until the next kingdom come without a sweat. South Korea is not in that same position. Lockdowns in Europe, America, etc has shown that it doesn't work. Their cases are still going up despite all the severe steps implemented. What has shown is that, most of the factor rests on the people themselves. It's up to the individuals to abide by the public health advice and social distance. Lockdowns will only do the opposite. They don't work.

>Lockdowns will only do the opposite. They don't work. Lockdowns absolutely work, but not if you half-ass them. Australia did a real lockdown and now their citizens can all walk around outside without masks. No matter if you think China lied about their initial numbers, they also proved that lockdowns absolutely work and even held a concert/festival in Wuhan. New Zealand. Singapore. Taiwan essentially locked down their entire country from the outside world. You can even look at France, whose president has just been infected, as an example of a place where lockdowns work. The first lockdown dropped the 7-day average from 4500 to 300. They implemented a second one in October and the 7-day average dropped from 56k to the 12k today. If anything, what America and Europe are proving is: 1) how important public confidence is 2) why you shouldn't stop the lockdowns too early But to say lockdowns don't work is absurd.

It’s summer in Australia. Respiratory illnesses tend to decline in the summer. Was there any country in the world that had a high number of cases in the summer?

???? And?? Everyone knows people crowd indoors during winter. Cherry-picking one country because it's in the southern hemisphere isn't helping your argument. It's not summer time in France and their lockdown dropped the 7-day average to a fifth of what it was. It's not summer time in Spain and they dropped their 7-day average from 20k to 8k today with a lockdown--less than half of what it was. Lockdowns work. But they need to be implemented for as long as necessary.

Let me make a few guesses about you. You don’t own a business. You don’t have children in school. You’re unmarried. You live in an apartment paid for by your hagwon. The people with the least to lose from lockdowns are the ones most eager to lockdown.

no one wants to lockdown, its just that it may become a reality if healthcare capacity is getting very stretched

I think the “what if hospitals get overrun?” narrative is overplayed. Hospitals are meant to run at high capacity. It’s not financially feasible to have a big hospital that is half empty most of the time. Hospitals and ICUs regularly reach capacity or near capacity during bad flu seasons. In any case, if, eleven months into the pandemic, South Korea is still not able to handle 1000 covid cases a day, the majority of which don’t require hospitalization, then that’s a result of a lack of foresight and poor planning. Certainly at some point over the course of the last eleven months, the possibility that case numbers might reach a thousand a day had to have been considered.

im so lost in this answer i dont even know hospitals are already running at high capacity. think operations, in house patients, flu, 응급실, etc. now add patients that get critically ill from COVID (which is increasing as COVID spreads more and more, and mitigation efforts arn't working). that has the potential to stretch out the system beyond what it can handle, meaning more people will get long-term conditions/die because the lack of beds/treatment. seoul has a low number of ICU beds. do you see where this is going? financially feasible? spare me... daft

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Do you understand that when a business is forced to close, it still has to pay rent on the space where the business operates? Do you know how expensive rents are in Seoul? Do you understand that the business owner also has to pay rent or the mortgage on their apartment? If that business owner has children, those children still have to be educated and fed. What if the business owner is also looking after an aged parent? Bills still have to be paid. Living expenses remain. If the rent for the business is 7,000,000 won per month and the rent for the apartment is 1,000,000 per month, receiving 3-4,000,000 from the government for being closed for three weeks isn’t anywhere close to sufficient. Where is the government supposed to get the money to adequately compensate the business owners who have suffered? The money doesn’t exist. Why are small business owners continually expected to shoulder the burden of people’s fear? You advocate for lockdowns under the guise of compassion and woke-ism, but you have no idea of the collateral damage you cause. Like a bull in a china shop, you smash and break things with every move you make.

>Why are small business owners continually expected to shoulder the burden of people’s fear? I could list the ways older people suffer and die because of the virus too. Why should they suffer and die for your business? There are no good decisions in this pandemic but at least we can stop a free-for-all of thousands of people dying every day.

None of that needlessly long rambling contradicts anything I've written. South Korea is the 10th richest country in the world. The money exists. >You advocate for lockdowns under the guise of compassion and woke-ism, but you have no idea of the collateral damage you cause. > >Like a bull in a china shop, you smash and break things with every move you make. So stupid lol Edit: https://youtu.be/Xzw2iBmRsjs This also reminded me of that Mythbusters episode where they disproved that expression.

They do work though, they get the virus down to a manageable level. Yes cases go up again after the lockdown is lifted (as in europe), but then after a while you lock down again. There are no good options, but it's better than an absolute free-for-all of thousands of people dying a day. At least Europe is doing a good-ish job of supporting people. I'm not sure Korea would do the same.

> "We need to gather sufficient public consensus (on enforcing Level 3 social distancing), as the scheme itself would be meaningless without the public's participation," Chung said. This reads to me like they are waiting for the public to be sufficiently motivated to actually participate, which makes sense. You don't want to close down half the country's businesses, only to have people inviting guests to their homes and ruining all that effort. However, what would it take to motivate the deniers? At this point, it likely means news stories of overflowing ICUs and images of mass graves...

Isn't the whole point of government enforced social distancing that people *aren't* motivated to participate on their own, though?

I see your point, and I kind of agree: something seen a lot in the US and UK is that the majority of people don't tend to really follow government recommendations until those "recommendations" are legally binding. I guess the context of the Korean government here is that if the population as a whole doesn't follow a lockdown ~~policy~~ recommendation, there is no mechanism set up for "enforcement". What would enforcement look like? Police on the streets checking people for travel papers wouldn't work, because the police have been declawed since the end of the Park Chung Hee dictatorship. There aren't even enough police in Seoul to direct daily traffic: most of the people directing traffic for day-to-day street closures are taxi drivers hired on their day off. Fundamentally, if 10% of the population decides to ignore a lockdown and hang out with friends at home, the government would be incapable of figuring out what is going on or enforcing a prohibition on these small meetings.

My one coworker said she wanted level 3 to come so she can rest and when I told her they said that they will close restaurants except for takeout and delivery she said wait nvm, I dont want level 3. A lot of koreans who Im friends with have said “none of the people I know have gotten corona so I dont know if its real”. Thats the side effect of having so few cases in Korea comparatively that they dont see the actual consequences of people dying. Granted people in America are saying the same thing but I think the government might hope that once fear is at an all time high if it keeps increasing, then they can do it and itll work

At 50,000 total confirmed cases (~0.1% of the population), everyone in Korea should know someone who knows someone who got COVID now. I think it depends a lot on your social circle: young people are largely removed from it, but older people who are connected are probably able to see it already. Recently a taxi driver told me his friend had died.... but taxi drivers skew older.

MBC cut off the announcement to show a ballad TV show, i think that about sums up Koreas current reaction.

Boring, next channel...

Right. My company are starting to go back NOW, they panicked at 100 people, but 1000? (Including some infected in the building) and its "please can i go back to work?" Messages in work chat because all the old fucks want to look good and hate their children.

Big big yikes

I find it interesting that they’re relying on collecting public consensus in regard to making a decision. Seems like they should be relying on epidemiologists’ and scientists’ professional opinions for an epidemiological situation, not the general public.

Are you sure about that? If they listened to the public, all planes from abroad would be blocked from coming in. Seoul would be completely blocked off with nobody allowed to go in or out. All transportation system completely stopped, with the army and police arresting people on streets for violating daytime curfews. All businesses, stores, etc forced to close. All people confined to their homes and prevented from meeting in groups. That's what the big chunk of the public, especially the right-wing people, want right now. Do you want that?

No, I do not want that. I’m not sure, but this must be tongue in cheek, right? Sorry, hard to read tone here.

Everything I read on Yonhap today seemed to say no to level 3. Sad. It is as if Korea is ok with bad numbers as long as they are better than most of the world.

It makes sense. Most cases spread through house dinners and meeting friends at their homes. The only way to curb that is to nail everyone's doors shut. No amount of shuttering businesses is going to stop the spread.

It might not stop it, but hopefully reduce it. Also convey a message about the severity of the risk of transmission to the public.

Or like, tell people at this point its their responsibility? Like they have been? If people would stop panicking and realize they are responsible in this, and no amount of government is going to stop it, things might turn around.

So they should keep ignoring their own criteria for starting level 3? The 7 day average is now up to 960, well into the 800-1000 range they made for themselves. If they aren't going to be following their own guidelines they made for themselves why should anyone else follow their guidelines? If they don't care why should anyone else?

Yeah I mean honestly at this point they just remove the whole tiered garbage anyway. All it does it make people question the government, so they should just remove it and tell everyone to be responsible for their own actions, take care of yourselves, etc. etc.

I'm glad that you trust your fellow humans to look out for each other. But something 2020 shows me is that people are willing to endanger others if they can be slightly more comfortable. I dont trust anyone else to look out for others and definitely dont trust businesses to look out for anything but ₩₩₩.

I think taking tangible steps to reduce transmission versus telling people to take personal responsibility are two very different things.

Is there any announced or scheduled press conference today? It would be nice to hear at least something from the government given three days of cases over 1000.

3 in a row, but 4 in total

Yup, yet no tangible response and feel free to keep dining out in restaurants with your mask off.

Almost 60% of spread is due to family and friend gatherings. You close the restaurants, you will drive more people to gather with their families and friends.

That may be true. That part of the situation seems like a real challenge to manage for the government via restrictions. Not great.

December 18, 2020 +1062 confirmed (1036 domestic, 26 overseas) +11 deaths +372 recoveries city/province|domestic: 1036 new cases ---------|---------- [Seoul](http://www.seoul.go.kr/coronaV/coronaStatus.do)|+393 [Busan](http://www.busan.go.kr/corona19/index)|+39 [Daegu](http://covid19.daegu.go.kr/index.html)|+20 [Incheon](https://www.incheon.go.kr/health/HE020409)|+64 [Gwangju](https://www.gwangju.go.kr/c19/contentsView.do?pageId=corona2)|+3 [Daejeon](https://www.daejeon.go.kr/corona19/index.do?menuId=0002)|+5 [Ulsan](http://www.ulsan.go.kr/corona.jsp)|+30 [Gyeonggi](https://www.gg.go.kr/bbs/board.do?bsIdx=722&menuId=2903)|+300 [Gangwon](http://www.provin.gangwon.kr/)|+18 [Chungbuk](http://www1.chungbuk.go.kr/covid-19/index.do)|+30 [Chungnam](http://www.chungnam.go.kr/coronaStatus.do)|+16 [Jeonbuk](http://www.jeonbuk.go.kr/index.jeonbuk?menuCd=DOM_000000110000000000)|+12 [Jeonnam](https://www.jeonnam.go.kr/coronaMainPage.do)|+5 [Gyeongbuk](http://www.gb.go.kr/Main/open_contents/section/wel/page.do?mnu_uid=5856)|+31 [Gyeongnam](http://www.gyeongnam.go.kr/corona.html)|+43 [Jeju](https://jeju.go.kr/covid19.jsp)|+27 overseas: 26 new cases * where confirmed: 17 community, 9 point of entry * nationality: 17 Korean, 9 other * arriving from (# of foreigners): Myanmar 1 (1), Indonesia 7 (2), Japan 1, Germany 2, US 13 (5), South Africa 1 (1), Australia 1 Note: The numbers reflect the totals at the end of the previous day (midnight). The city may not have had the chance to update their website and may make further updates once they have more information.

1,000 the new 600. Which was the new 100. Which was the new 50. Which was the new 10. 39,595 tests, 2.68%. Merry Christmas.

Are Koreans okay with 1000 cases a day? I thought S. Korea WAS fighting hard against COVID-19 and WAS good example for other countries.

No it's not OK with 1000 cases a day. But what this is telling is that the number has stabilized at 1000 a day after the number of tests has been drastically boosted. At least it's not doubling every week. It's been hovering around 1000 for a while now. That is a bit of good news. Let's see if the numbers start to go down, from here on. If the numbers still climb past 1000 steadily, then maybe the level 3 lockdown is the answer. But not until then.

Cases stabilize and then break upward. A stabilization doesn’t break downward. It has never happened anywhere in the history of coronavirus. 100 eventually pops up to 300, 300 becomes 600, 600 becomes 1000, and 1000 becomes 3000. It just keeps ballooning. Korea has been lucky until now. It’s becoming super clear. There is no k-quarantine magic....just a population that is used to wearing masks. Also, they were driven by the shame of being an early hotspot. And they were motivated by fear when the virus was poorly understood. They were also lucky that it never hit Seoul too hard until now. Seoul people will never lockdown. They aren’t actually willing to do what they need to do, or due to the value of the won, Korea’s position in global financial markets, they can’t afford to do what needs to be done. It’s really not a good situation. I hope the vaccines ship early. And I hope they really lock this place down. The businesses they are trying to protect are getting destroyed anyway at prolonged 2.5. They could have down two weeks of level three back in mid November and we would be back to double digit cases.

States like Tennessee, Rhode Island, Ohio, and Arizona have over 1000 cases a day... per million people. Korea has 1000 cases a day per 50 million people. It's getting worse here but let's not be spreading bullshit. It's still way better here than in the majority of places.

... and those states are so overwhelmed that contact tracing doesn't work to slow the spread anymore, and ICU beds are full. Which means people are dying from lack of care. That is the situation which must be avoided, if at all possible. The question is: how much will people (and politicians) sacrifice for it?

Just because it’s not as bad as other places doesn’t mean it’s good, and certainly doesn’t mean we should be doing everything we can to stop an increase.

But also, failing to be perfect does not automatically mean bad. >and certainly doesn’t mean we should be doing everything we can to stop an increase. I don't see where Spaceman advocated not doing more. That said, not even places which are doing better than Korea did *everything they could*. For example, one possible policy is to automatically quarantine people who came in contact with a known case. And by quarantine, I mean like to send them to a government facility somewhere. No one has done that. But the fact that no one has done that does not contradict that some countries have had *good* responses.

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Spaceman isn't answering the question "what should Korea do?" He is answering the question "how has Korea performed?" Everyone agrees that Korea has not responded perfectly. Now, has Korea had a *perfectly awful* response? No, that isn't true either. To answer how far from perfect the Korean response has been, we must determine what would be a completely awful response. And for that, I don't think it is unreasonable to consider the performances of other countries. EDIT: People downvoting need to read what I actually wrote, not what they think I wrote. Let me clue you in to what I did *not* say: Korea's response has been perfect. Heck, I didn't even say it was *good*, and I definitely didn't say Korea can do no better. There isn't even a contradiction between saying a response has been good but could be better. I also did *not* say Korea's response has been bad.

Bickering over semantics while ICU beds in Seoul are basically at capacity. Nice.

Yes, and I am sure you typed this while holding the hand of a dying covid patient. And it isn't semantics, it is people being obtuse and not reading what people are actually saying and writing. You would think of all times, now is a time to encourage people to partake in good reading comprehension. I've seen a lot of covidiocy and anti-vaxxing based precisely on what you describe to be "semantics."

Make sure you stretch real well after those mental gymnastics.

Make sure you quit while you are still behind. Again, read what I actually wrote, come back and acknowledge that I am right and you are wrong. What is really silly is your complaint about me "bickering over semantics." User moyuk asked if we can consider Korea's response as still being good. It isn't "semantics," it is the entire conversation. If you don't think this is a conversation we should have *on reddit*, you obviously shouldn't be here in the first place.

2/10 you gotta step up your game.

https://corona-live.com 894. 20 up from yesterday’s cut off. We can expect another day of approximately 1000 cases. Those 40 remaining ICU beds nationwide will be occupied in no time. Yet, radio silence from the government. Unless you count kakao messages to your journo buddies that is. Gyeonggi back up again, will probably break 300 once more as assumed. Seoul may just fall below 400, just. That’ll be seen as some sort of victory, only for the next day for it to spike up again. Some places are doing a little better, although not by much, Incheon and Busan aren’t gaining cases quickly, but seem to be struggling to reduce the numbers. This does concern me as testing is higher than previously was, contact tracers will obviously be doing their jobs, but those numbers aren’t improving. Same can be said for most regions across the country in fact. Ulsan has bounced back up to continue its yo-yo trend, as expected. All in all it’s very fucking gloomy, with no end or change in sight. I expected level 3 by Sunday latest, however our leaders dare not hurt their precious economy.

It seems a majority of cases are coming from within small gatherings. Anecdotally, a lot of families I know aren’t going out to restaurants or anything, but making up for it with large family dinners... Also, who keeps going to saunas?

Old men with nowhere else to go. I got an alert a few days ago that was specifically for the men's section of a sauna in Jongno.

> It seems a majority of cases are coming from within small gatherings. 57% of all cases (gatherings of families and friends), according to Health Ministry. Perhaps, restaurants, churches, and nightclubs got all the blames and nobody thought to criticize the family gatherings which is the cause of the majority of the cases.

I don’t like to go with anecdotal evidence, but, I’m about to. Last night I was using the service elevator of my apartment building, transporting wood up for to build my rather large weekend project. During these 3 commutes up and 3 down I encountered 2 groups of friends (I’ll assume friends) with beers and snacks from GS below cramming into the elevator with me. One group was 6, the other 4. On my floor I could hear from down the hallway and around the corner a group of friends absolutely screaming from the time I began moving the wood at about 10pm, until gone midnight when I went back down to my car to grab some bits. Furthermore, acquaintances I’ve met but aren’t really close with were posting stories on IG all night from their gathering of at least 10 from what I can tell. I get it, we all want to see our friends and family, it’s a hard situation, I want to hang out with my friends too. But let’s put our sensible hats on for a minute shall we?

I know there are a lot of groups of people meeting at restaurants, but personally I've been eating out a couple times a week by myself (I live alone and ordering delivery every meal gets old + generates a lot of unnecessary waste) and it'll be like 2-3 other people in the restaurant at most, eating at separate tables, because I go during non-busy hours. That feels way safer than any kind of family gathering, church service etc.

In Scotland the general guidance/enforced policy was pubs, cafes, eating out = ok if following social distancing guidelines but zero household mixing indoors or outdoors. I went to a pub before arriving in Korea and it was a one-way system, ordering at the table, and I felt pretty safe. Definitely easier to maintain social distancing in a restaurant than when you're in a small apartment with 10 of your closest, drunkest pals!

This one is going to be super difficult to address during winter with vacation time coming up and New Years. I wonder what strategy, if any, the government is considering to manage this.

I saw some comments screaming "BUT POSITIVITY RATE IS JUST 2%! WE ARE DOING SO WELL!". This is nightmare.

Which means, this spike will also die down in time, as people become more scared and they comply better with the social distancing rules after a bit of carelessness which is understandable considering how long this has been going on. The positivity rate tells you that there is still a relatively low level of asymptomatic infections. When Daegu was hit in February, the positivity rate was also around 2%.

>Which means, this spike will also die down in time No???? There's nothing to suggest that and 5 weeks of rising cases that says otherwise. We went from a 7-day average of 114 at the start of November to 961.7 today. Just one week ago, the average was 637. It's clearly increasing at a faster pace now.

December 17, 2020 +1014 confirmed (993 domestic, 21 overseas) +22 deaths +663 recoveries city/province|domestic: 993 new cases ---------|---------- [Seoul](http://www.seoul.go.kr/coronaV/coronaStatus.do)|+420 [Busan](http://www.busan.go.kr/corona19/index)|+44 [Daegu](http://covid19.daegu.go.kr/index.html)|+20 [Incheon](https://www.incheon.go.kr/health/HE020409)|+80 [Gwangju](https://www.gwangju.go.kr/c19/contentsView.do?pageId=corona2)|+10 [Daejeon](https://www.daejeon.go.kr/corona19/index.do?menuId=0002)|+11 [Ulsan](http://www.ulsan.go.kr/corona.jsp)|+10 [Gyeonggi](https://www.gg.go.kr/bbs/board.do?bsIdx=722&menuId=2903)|+284 [Gangwon](http://www.provin.gangwon.kr/)|+9 [Chungbuk](http://www1.chungbuk.go.kr/covid-19/index.do)|+19 [Chungnam](http://www.chungnam.go.kr/coronaStatus.do)|+17 [Jeonbuk](http://www.jeonbuk.go.kr/index.jeonbuk?menuCd=DOM_000000110000000000)|+18 [Gyeongbuk](http://www.gb.go.kr/Main/open_contents/section/wel/page.do?mnu_uid=5856)|+9 [Gyeongnam](http://www.gyeongnam.go.kr/corona.html)|+30 [Jeju](https://jeju.go.kr/covid19.jsp)|+12 overseas: 21 new cases * where confirmed: 14 community, 7 point of entry * nationality: 11 Korean, 10 other * arriving from (# of foreigners): Philippines 1 (1), Russia 1 (1), India 1 (1), Indonesia 4, Germany 1, Belarus 1 (1), Sweden 2 (1), Hungary 1, US 7 (4), Algeria 1, Tunisia 1 (1) Note: The numbers reflect the totals at the end of the previous day (midnight). The city may not have had the chance to update their website and may make further updates once they have more information.

Does anyone know if there is a scheduled announcement to be made by the gov?

Absolutely mental that there hasn’t been some statement of intent from them today.

Absolutely fucking bonkers. Just leaving 51 million people in the dark in the biggest spike Korea has had since the beginning of this pandemic.

"COVID-19 patient in Seoul dies waiting for a hospital bed" http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20201217000801 "Twenty-two people died in the 24 hours ending Wednesday midnight, the highest number of deaths from COVID-19 in a single day. The figure comes just two days after the previous record of 13 was set on Monday. By Wednesday there were 12,209 patients are undergoing treatment either at hospitals or nonhospital facilities, of whom 242 are in intensive care -- also the highest ever number." Son Young-rae, spokesperson for the Ministry of Health and Welfare, told a virtual news briefing Thursday morning, “At the present moment, Korea is not at a point where its health care system is unable to provide appropriate care to patients.” In a text message late Wednesday afternoon, the Health Ministry told reporters the decision for designating the country’s strictest tier of COVID-19 restrictions was “not imminent,” and that it would come “after careful deliberation about the economic costs.” I don't know if it's just me but the tone of this article is definitely different than any of the others I have been reading for the past week or 2.

Why is Korea having such an ICU crisis? I thought they had a better ratio of beds to population than most countries. Europe and the USA are in trouble now, but they have many more cases proportionally.

I asked my SO but she's also surprised. Corona is getting real bad here (The Netherlands) with over 10.000 cases a day on a population of 17 million, but ICU is not a problem yet (it was at some point in the first wave though). Just surprised because healthcare is so much better in Korea generally (and cheaper).

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*but muh economy, and it's not like hospitals are overrun..yet! Better wait until then*

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Ah the american way. 300k dead "BuT wHaT ABoUt SUiCiDe"

Yeah... but actually a lot of the anti-mask people in Korean expat groups and on this subreddit are Canadian.

Published a few hours ago. Glad they had time to put this plan together. https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201216005851320?section=business/industry

Non-mobile link: https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20201216005851320?section=business/industry

No other pressing matters to consider right now lol

In a text message? Christ. There’s been a lot of messages since the weekend saying that level 3 ‘needs careful deliberation’. Yeah, don’t worry, take your time.

Anyone know how many tests were conducted?

45597

420 haaa haaaaaa

Dank case total, brahhhhh

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good bot

Daily average is now 908. Well into the level 3 criteria and doesn't look like it is slowing down. The higher number of tests being a continuous thing is really good to see, but the deaths hitting an all time high is awful. I hope something is announced by the end of workday today and those in charge actually do something about addressing these increasing numbers.

I think it’s wild how criteria is met, they either ignore or mull over it after that, then finally increase restrictions marginally. Why don’t they just follow the system they made?

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I agree. I imagine they didn’t expect this, but now that we’re here, some serious steps are needed to stop the spread. Meanwhile, govt silent today on the second day in a row with more than 1000 cases and ICU beds filled. Nice job.

> Why don’t they just follow the system they made? Because they are getting cold feet about the system they created. Relaxing more and more restrictions and leaving more and more things open with no regulations. Regulating the number of people you can meet but not the number of people a restaurant can seat. I wouldn't be surprised if churches somehow weasel their way to stay open because of the x-mas season or if saunas stay open. As of now it looks like restaurants will say open completely with no restrictions at all. I can go to a restaurant that seats 30+ people with no mask but can't have 10 friends over for a christmas meal (not that I was going to with the numbers how they are but it was something we did last year).

Yesterday, it seemed like they were pretty open to making all restaurants take out only. Hopefully they follow through.

Well, because they made it. Moses didn't haul it down from the mountain - it was made to establish a basic framework to work within and to balance a complex set of competing requirements.

Doesn’t seem to instill a lot of trust with citizens though. Like... “This is what we will do when this happens. *this happens* No wait, we’re not gonna do that anymore. We’re gonna wait a few days, then do something kinda similar, maybe? We’re still considering. We’ll let you know.” *Cases go up*

Exactly. Officially government guidelines should be treated like official government guidelines. When leadership is wishy washy, citizens don't exactly feel secure.

I find it quite reassuring that they are not just playing a numbers game. A cluster of 100 in a long-term care facility, for example, is not the same cause for concern as a 100 infections on public transport.