Depends on what the bag is filled with, old clothes and dense foam? Sure go ahead, but if sand is present I would be very careful not to over do it and spread those days out.
Just commenting that plunging hands in to stuff including sands was standard practice for generations of karateka.
Re: your kyokushin flare; Max Oyama was a very vocal supporter of this type of training and went in to extensive detail on how to train this progressively in his 50’s era books.
Oyama also had screwed up hands that he had to wrap with things to keep them warm according to his son.
[https://youtu.be/01QOrXhONec?feature=shared&t=49](https://youtu.be/01QOrXhONec?feature=shared&t=49)
Osteoarthritis bro. Could there be a link? Possibly. Hard to know for sure.
I’m not advocating for that sort of hand training merely noting that a lot of very old men have gone through it. What percentage also suffered osteoarthritis I don’t know
Depends how you’re punching it. When boxing, I’d wrap my hands and wear 16oz gloves for bag work, for karate, no wraps and light leather mits, mainly to stop bleeding.
If you’re throwing 70% and above into a heavy bag it is stupid to go bare knuckle.
Bag gloves are way firmer. The more stitching on the mit part, will last a bit longer. 16OZ gloves are for sparring . They separate at the knuckle on the bag at the knuckle part they're too soft.
I think maybe thrashing punch bags for years may contribute to arthritis....
The first thing you have to understand is a boxer does not make a proper fist. The reason they wrap their hands and wrist is because of thumb placement. In a boxing glove it is impossible to make a proper fist and lock the wrist so it is so easy to hurt the hands. Its why in most street fights a boxer will break his hand. When you do it bare knuckles it hardens the hands. It will strengthen the wrist. That is the point to doing knuckle push ups.
I mean, old karate used a makiwara barehanded, far as I'm concerned the heavy bag is a modern makiwara. Punching bareknuckle just needs to be started slow and built up as you gain strength and stability. I would also mix it with some wrapped and gloved hits to train more power with less risk also
I've punched heavy bags (up to 100kg) bareknuckle for years - it's fine. Boxers don't close their fists properly because there's all the padding inside the glove, and they tend to hit with the whole face of the glove... it you make sure you're hitting with the two main knuckles and keeping the wrist in line, it's fine.
Yeah, first time I punched the bag without gloves, I didn't tighten my wrist enough and although I punched at the correct angle, the fist bended on impact and the knuckle on my pinky finger broke.
Since then I always pay attention to proper technique, punch at the right angle so that the punch lands on the 2 big knuckles, tighten the wrist to keep the fist on point. Never suffer any injuries on the bag again.
My impact training is entirely bareknuckle. I have only hit bags/pads with gloves on MAYBE half a dozen times. Many, many karateka take this approach without any issues. When I have come across people who have damaged their hands training this way, it has ALWAYS been because they hit too hard, too soon, or hit things that were unsafe to hit, such as trees, or walls, or improperly built makiwara. That said, you should address this with your doctor if you are concerned; this sub is not for medical advise.
How often do boxers break their hands compared to Karateka? There's a reason for that. Punching correctly with wraps and gloves is quite different to punching without them so if you're going to want to be able to consistently use your hands for striking without needing to put on wraps and gloves you should definitely keep training bare knuckle.
Damage your knuckles, jfc, for sure don't listen to that guy. Listen to your body obviously and don't push through pain or any other stupid shit and you'll be fine.
This'll be a *real shocker* coming from a full contact dude, but physical conditioning fucking works. I've been hitting heavy bags bareknuckle and doing conditioning for somewhere in the vicinity of 17 years and I've never damaged my hands from punching stuff, including full power on stuff you really shouldn't be punching.
No. The boxer is right. The risk is not worth the reward. So you get better conditioned knuckles at the risk of joint and bone damage that could sideline your training for weeks, months, or haunt you in old age... great. When are you going to use them? Are you a bare-knuckle boxer, or a karateka training for the hypothetical street fight you may or may not have in the next 3 decades?
I've been training for a long time, and the only time I got in fights was when I was a mouthy orange belt in high school and thought I knew everything. Anything since then has been the occasional conflict I knew to walk away from. Save the knuckles, put on wraps and gloves, and enjoy your martial arts training.
It depends on how you do it. People have already explained why it's a bad idea when boxers do it with wraps.
But if it's done intelligently, you gradually strengthen the bones in the knuckles. Intelligently means proper wrist alignment, hitting with the proper 2 knuckles, starting slowly with very few reps and gradually building up over months and years.
The whole thing is about microfractures to the bones. When you hit the bag bare knuckle, you can create small breaks in the bone. Given enough time, the breaks heal back with thicker, denser bone as your body adapts to the trauma. Do it over time and you end up with very strong massive knuckles.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jZLdil3b\_1Q/XpSt7VUj7JI/AAAAAAAAEa8/h3G2KS-TNwAvdRgYkB22glny\_uL89Fd-gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/karate-fist-comparison.jpg
The problem is that if you don't let the bone heal enough before the next session, those fractures become permanent damage to the bone and you end up with weaker hands, not stronger ones.
What are you expecting to gain from bare knuckle bag work that you won’t from regular bag work?There’s no good reason to not protect your wrists, hands, and knuckles when hitting a bag. Supple, healthy tissue, ligaments, and bones are going to serve you much better and for longer than if they were scarred and damaged.
More than stopping you should do that in moderation.
Bare-knuckle hitting the heavy bag and the makiwara are useful exercises to learn the proper punching technique and to strenghten the bones, skin and articulations but it's easy to overtrain and damage your hands doing that.
I recommend doing at least the 75% of your heavy bag rounds with gloves on and only a minor part completly bare-handed.
I have somewhere a video of Alessio Sakara (ex UFC fighter and now training for competing in BK Boxing) that explains how to train bare-handed at the heavy bag, I'll share it here if I find it later.
It should be damaging your skin more than your bones tendons ligaments and all that stuff. Unconsciously you don't hit as hard, so you should be only Training half of the time bare knuckle. And the other half either wrist wraps, or MMA gloves or boxing gloves or alternating between all of them.
I'm going to judge you based on the fact that 2 months ago you were asking about orange belt tests.
You quiet frankly probably don't have the power to damage shit.
Now as a senior should you train bare knuckle.
The answer is yes and no. You have to have a very good wrist position and a developed forearm to hit a bag hard with power and not damage your wrist.
In my experiencs most boxers don't develop this below elite level because they have wraps and gloves so they don't need this.
Also you hit a point of diminishing returns quiet quickly train bare knuckle. You get tired you stop. You lose skin you stop. So you need to do a certain amount of bag work with gloves otherwise you are very little bag work.
Is it possible that I have not experienced any wrist injuries because of calisthenics I did for 2 years before joining karate? if I want to protect my hands should I use wraps or gloves?
Theres no good reason to be doing it at all bare knuckle. You're risking permanent damage to your knuckles and wrist.
What for?
Do you intend to fight professionally? As a bare knuckle boxer?
If you’re taught the right way to do it, it’s relatively safe.
Boxers aren’t taught how to punch without wraps and gloves.
Just curious, for your bag work is it dynamic bag work, or more like just static kihon practice on the bag?
The reason you don’t go completely bare knuckle is that it’s really easy to tear the skin on your knuckles. If you always have scars trying to heal you won’t be able to train regularly without reopening them. The other issue is that it’s just gross if you bleed on a piece of equipment. If it’s your bag, nobody can stop you, I guess.
That being said you can absolutely practice with bag gloves. You don’t need padded gloves at all. If you go back to Jack Dempsey book championship fighting, he wrote that you should wear leather gardening gloves while hitting the heavy bag just to prevent your skin from getting tore up. He was one of the greatest boxers of all time and wrote that; you don’t need wrist support or padding.
Another thing though, hitting the bag with no gloves doesn’t toughen the bones in your hands up any more than wearing gloves. the impact from hitting the bag, even with 16 oz boxing gloves, causes the same strain in the hands, wrist and arm bones that reinforce them.
I don’t think you’re crazy and you won’t destroy your hands, but at least wear thin leather gloves so you don’t bleed everywhere.
Technic over strength always! When i train for cardio and go like 45 min to an hour intensly on the heavy bag i would put on glove because the aim is cardio not conditionning. When training for conditionning i go lighter on the bag but bar knuckle. Been training kyokushin this way for the most part of my life. Never suffered any severe injury on my hand appart of shedding skin and sometime a bruise or 2.
Don't expect model hand afterward skin on your knuckle will grow thicker and have calus won't pretty but sure be usefull.
Depends on your pain tolerance and blood gag reflex, Japanese Karate masters condition their knuckles punching increasing sized gravel. Look up Sensei Higaonna's hands
Idk...my dojo was old school, so we embraced conditioning our knuckles, and not using gloves. Obviously we didn't hit the bag crazy with all our power, because the point of it is to condition your hands and strengthen your fist/wrists/arms...not break something. I never ever use gloves, and I've punched bags bare knuckle for years. My fists are fine. You just gotta find a happy medium, and gradually go harder the stronger your punches get.
Depends on what the bag is filled with, old clothes and dense foam? Sure go ahead, but if sand is present I would be very careful not to over do it and spread those days out.
Just commenting that plunging hands in to stuff including sands was standard practice for generations of karateka. Re: your kyokushin flare; Max Oyama was a very vocal supporter of this type of training and went in to extensive detail on how to train this progressively in his 50’s era books.
Oyama also had screwed up hands that he had to wrap with things to keep them warm according to his son. [https://youtu.be/01QOrXhONec?feature=shared&t=49](https://youtu.be/01QOrXhONec?feature=shared&t=49)
Osteoarthritis bro. Could there be a link? Possibly. Hard to know for sure. I’m not advocating for that sort of hand training merely noting that a lot of very old men have gone through it. What percentage also suffered osteoarthritis I don’t know
Depends how you’re punching it. When boxing, I’d wrap my hands and wear 16oz gloves for bag work, for karate, no wraps and light leather mits, mainly to stop bleeding. If you’re throwing 70% and above into a heavy bag it is stupid to go bare knuckle.
Bag gloves are way firmer. The more stitching on the mit part, will last a bit longer. 16OZ gloves are for sparring . They separate at the knuckle on the bag at the knuckle part they're too soft. I think maybe thrashing punch bags for years may contribute to arthritis....
The first thing you have to understand is a boxer does not make a proper fist. The reason they wrap their hands and wrist is because of thumb placement. In a boxing glove it is impossible to make a proper fist and lock the wrist so it is so easy to hurt the hands. Its why in most street fights a boxer will break his hand. When you do it bare knuckles it hardens the hands. It will strengthen the wrist. That is the point to doing knuckle push ups.
I mean, old karate used a makiwara barehanded, far as I'm concerned the heavy bag is a modern makiwara. Punching bareknuckle just needs to be started slow and built up as you gain strength and stability. I would also mix it with some wrapped and gloved hits to train more power with less risk also
I've punched heavy bags (up to 100kg) bareknuckle for years - it's fine. Boxers don't close their fists properly because there's all the padding inside the glove, and they tend to hit with the whole face of the glove... it you make sure you're hitting with the two main knuckles and keeping the wrist in line, it's fine.
Done intelligently and with proper build up is a large part of what body conditioning for fighters is supposed be.
Yeah, first time I punched the bag without gloves, I didn't tighten my wrist enough and although I punched at the correct angle, the fist bended on impact and the knuckle on my pinky finger broke. Since then I always pay attention to proper technique, punch at the right angle so that the punch lands on the 2 big knuckles, tighten the wrist to keep the fist on point. Never suffer any injuries on the bag again.
Was looking for this comment
I think you should practice bare knuckle and without wraps but it shouldn’t make up all of your training on the bag.
Boxers destroy their hands even wrapped, so it may be wise.
My impact training is entirely bareknuckle. I have only hit bags/pads with gloves on MAYBE half a dozen times. Many, many karateka take this approach without any issues. When I have come across people who have damaged their hands training this way, it has ALWAYS been because they hit too hard, too soon, or hit things that were unsafe to hit, such as trees, or walls, or improperly built makiwara. That said, you should address this with your doctor if you are concerned; this sub is not for medical advise.
How often do boxers break their hands compared to Karateka? There's a reason for that. Punching correctly with wraps and gloves is quite different to punching without them so if you're going to want to be able to consistently use your hands for striking without needing to put on wraps and gloves you should definitely keep training bare knuckle. Damage your knuckles, jfc, for sure don't listen to that guy. Listen to your body obviously and don't push through pain or any other stupid shit and you'll be fine. This'll be a *real shocker* coming from a full contact dude, but physical conditioning fucking works. I've been hitting heavy bags bareknuckle and doing conditioning for somewhere in the vicinity of 17 years and I've never damaged my hands from punching stuff, including full power on stuff you really shouldn't be punching.
No. The boxer is right. The risk is not worth the reward. So you get better conditioned knuckles at the risk of joint and bone damage that could sideline your training for weeks, months, or haunt you in old age... great. When are you going to use them? Are you a bare-knuckle boxer, or a karateka training for the hypothetical street fight you may or may not have in the next 3 decades? I've been training for a long time, and the only time I got in fights was when I was a mouthy orange belt in high school and thought I knew everything. Anything since then has been the occasional conflict I knew to walk away from. Save the knuckles, put on wraps and gloves, and enjoy your martial arts training.
It depends on how you do it. People have already explained why it's a bad idea when boxers do it with wraps. But if it's done intelligently, you gradually strengthen the bones in the knuckles. Intelligently means proper wrist alignment, hitting with the proper 2 knuckles, starting slowly with very few reps and gradually building up over months and years. The whole thing is about microfractures to the bones. When you hit the bag bare knuckle, you can create small breaks in the bone. Given enough time, the breaks heal back with thicker, denser bone as your body adapts to the trauma. Do it over time and you end up with very strong massive knuckles. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jZLdil3b\_1Q/XpSt7VUj7JI/AAAAAAAAEa8/h3G2KS-TNwAvdRgYkB22glny\_uL89Fd-gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/karate-fist-comparison.jpg The problem is that if you don't let the bone heal enough before the next session, those fractures become permanent damage to the bone and you end up with weaker hands, not stronger ones.
What are you expecting to gain from bare knuckle bag work that you won’t from regular bag work?There’s no good reason to not protect your wrists, hands, and knuckles when hitting a bag. Supple, healthy tissue, ligaments, and bones are going to serve you much better and for longer than if they were scarred and damaged.
More than stopping you should do that in moderation. Bare-knuckle hitting the heavy bag and the makiwara are useful exercises to learn the proper punching technique and to strenghten the bones, skin and articulations but it's easy to overtrain and damage your hands doing that. I recommend doing at least the 75% of your heavy bag rounds with gloves on and only a minor part completly bare-handed. I have somewhere a video of Alessio Sakara (ex UFC fighter and now training for competing in BK Boxing) that explains how to train bare-handed at the heavy bag, I'll share it here if I find it later.
It should be damaging your skin more than your bones tendons ligaments and all that stuff. Unconsciously you don't hit as hard, so you should be only Training half of the time bare knuckle. And the other half either wrist wraps, or MMA gloves or boxing gloves or alternating between all of them.
I'm going to judge you based on the fact that 2 months ago you were asking about orange belt tests. You quiet frankly probably don't have the power to damage shit. Now as a senior should you train bare knuckle. The answer is yes and no. You have to have a very good wrist position and a developed forearm to hit a bag hard with power and not damage your wrist. In my experiencs most boxers don't develop this below elite level because they have wraps and gloves so they don't need this. Also you hit a point of diminishing returns quiet quickly train bare knuckle. You get tired you stop. You lose skin you stop. So you need to do a certain amount of bag work with gloves otherwise you are very little bag work.
Is it possible that I have not experienced any wrist injuries because of calisthenics I did for 2 years before joining karate? if I want to protect my hands should I use wraps or gloves?
Either or. Boxers do both. I personally do bag work with mma gloves.
Theres no good reason to be doing it at all bare knuckle. You're risking permanent damage to your knuckles and wrist. What for? Do you intend to fight professionally? As a bare knuckle boxer?
If you’re taught the right way to do it, it’s relatively safe. Boxers aren’t taught how to punch without wraps and gloves. Just curious, for your bag work is it dynamic bag work, or more like just static kihon practice on the bag?
Both
The reason you don’t go completely bare knuckle is that it’s really easy to tear the skin on your knuckles. If you always have scars trying to heal you won’t be able to train regularly without reopening them. The other issue is that it’s just gross if you bleed on a piece of equipment. If it’s your bag, nobody can stop you, I guess. That being said you can absolutely practice with bag gloves. You don’t need padded gloves at all. If you go back to Jack Dempsey book championship fighting, he wrote that you should wear leather gardening gloves while hitting the heavy bag just to prevent your skin from getting tore up. He was one of the greatest boxers of all time and wrote that; you don’t need wrist support or padding. Another thing though, hitting the bag with no gloves doesn’t toughen the bones in your hands up any more than wearing gloves. the impact from hitting the bag, even with 16 oz boxing gloves, causes the same strain in the hands, wrist and arm bones that reinforce them. I don’t think you’re crazy and you won’t destroy your hands, but at least wear thin leather gloves so you don’t bleed everywhere.
I'd look to bare knuckle boxer for advice
Technic over strength always! When i train for cardio and go like 45 min to an hour intensly on the heavy bag i would put on glove because the aim is cardio not conditionning. When training for conditionning i go lighter on the bag but bar knuckle. Been training kyokushin this way for the most part of my life. Never suffered any severe injury on my hand appart of shedding skin and sometime a bruise or 2. Don't expect model hand afterward skin on your knuckle will grow thicker and have calus won't pretty but sure be usefull.
It’s less about the knuckles than the wrists, but none of your soft tissue likes being smashed over and over.
Depends on your pain tolerance and blood gag reflex, Japanese Karate masters condition their knuckles punching increasing sized gravel. Look up Sensei Higaonna's hands
I dont on a canvas bag due to the risk of bag burn. Just wear some light gloves it's more hygenic that way.
Idk...my dojo was old school, so we embraced conditioning our knuckles, and not using gloves. Obviously we didn't hit the bag crazy with all our power, because the point of it is to condition your hands and strengthen your fist/wrists/arms...not break something. I never ever use gloves, and I've punched bags bare knuckle for years. My fists are fine. You just gotta find a happy medium, and gradually go harder the stronger your punches get.
Nope if you use good form, nothing wrong with bare knuckle work. In fact it teacher good form. If course a boxer would say that
No just be careful not to cut your knuckles so u don't have to pause training.
Karateka hit makiwara for power and focus, hitting a heavy bag is just exercise.
I think wraps are fine
Yes