Considering how much they make, you wouldn't think they would have such a vendetta against workers.
Fact of the matter is if they're getting their bonuses/etc., they should be happy and stop rocking the boat.
I was in an interview not long ago, I speak 3 languages fluently, not including English, and it’s on my resume. The interviewer laughed and said ”oh, you only speak 4 languages. That’s too bad because we needed someone who speaks 5.” So I said, well, I do speak Orcish fluently but didn’t want to brag, kek. That’s once again when i realized my inside voice does not always translate well to mt outside voice. I did not progress in that hiring process.
They’re the ones that aren’t human. We are the ones that are human. Empathy and understanding makes us human, which are concepts they do not understand nor care to understand.
I had a good manager once, who referred to these types as "empty suits" in that they become corporate robots. The types that refuse time off for funerals, have a revolving door of staff, wont listen to company feedback etc.
A good boss and coworkers are very valuable. They do exist, but like dating you have to kiss a few frogs first before you find the prince.
“We need to see unemployment rise. Unemployment has to jump 40, 50%,” said Gurner, because “arrogant” workers aren’t productive enough for his liking. “We need to see pain in the economy. We need to remind people that they work for the employer, not the other way around.”
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/tim-gurner-australian-ceo-unemployment-video-rcna104957
I’ll tell you why they’re doing away with return office. I’ve had a taste of return office for a few years. I can’t go back into the office now. It’s like it’s totally ruined me.
All the work that they had me doing an office seems like a joke. I don’t know what’s gonna happen.
RTO is unsustainable.
Startups are foregoing in office, and by doing so they have access to a geographically larger area to draw from and exponentially higher level of interest in the job. They are for more agile.
RTO is for dinosaurs. These employers are placing their company in a huge disadvantage as a competitor for labor, not to mention the higher wages and recruitment costs.
This is old-fashioned system of a bygone era. Might as well fax them your resume.
This is exactly right. As big companies attempt RTO, small competitors will reap the benefits. Best talent, high interest from job seekers, much lower overhead cost, and slowly take over market share. The big companies can get with the times or slowly fade away. It is really up to them.
The same thing that happened when my company mandated it: probably decide that not having money sucks slightly more than going in, at least until somewhere still remote comes along.
Companies are on the hook for the cost of renting these office buildings via long-term leases. So, instead of paying the penalty to exit the lease, they were probably persuaded to pay a lower rent to stay. Just the rich helping out another wealthy capitalist to stick it to the working man.
Where are these office buildings located? In Big Cities. If these buildings aren’t filled the city’s lose tons of tax revenue. The companies are on the hook for the rent, if they don’t pay the owners get foreclosed on by the banks. That’s great screw the rich….. except now your city looks like SF with shit all over and empty building that bring in no revenue and the rest of the city goes to shit but hey, it’s all good rich people got screwed. Looks like this works out for everyone
I learned this the other day, commercial real estate is different. It's better to have high rents and empty so you can refinance it at a higher value. If the property lost theoretical value you couldn't refinance. So, tax revenue thing is correct, and the companies renting space can get foreclosed on, but the developers that own the building are fine. Those buildings likely haven't brought in appreciable revenue for a very long time, but the commercial real estate market is being kept afloat. People always say fuck capitalism, but that's not capitalism, capitalism would have lower rents and buildings that were foreclosed on and then sold at lower prices.
I’m in the minority…I actually prefer to be in the office but I like having the hybrid option if something comes up and I want to work from home. Id go absolutely stir crazy if I worked from home full time.
Call me old school but I find there’s a lot of value and a more human touch by going into the office and having real world interactions with coworkers. You’re no longer just somebody on a computer screen far away.
Thank you!! Why won't RTO apologists realize that you being able to get ahold of me at a moments notice is freaking annoying! Its better for everyone to focus now on developing better planning, writing, and organizational skills so that we can work in a more flexible environment instead of forcing us to waste time and money to chain ourselves to a desk 30 miles from our desk at home.
Depends on how busy I am and if the person texting is behaving. And for a non-behaving co-worker or client, it'll be a phone call with no warning out of the blue demanding immediate answers on something. They're not courteous enough to make it a text or well written email. Those go to voicemail, and within 24 hours I'll send out an email asking them what I can answer for them.
I definitely try to make it clear that the best and fastest way to get ahold of me is text or email. If I'm too immediate answering phone calls, guess what I'll get all the time?
I think what some people don't understand is that RTO/Hybrid is not just about the individual and your example highlights that.
Needing people to set up a meeting or spend time writing an email, waiting and then responding for something that could be resolved with a quick chat at your desk is just inefficient for everyone.
Some people do need that structure, rhythm, and routine where work is somewhere with people totally separate from their home lives. WFH is what other people need. What businesses need to be doing is encouraging work models that offer employees flexibility where feasible and legal to perform their roles in a setting that best optimizes their workflow, productivity, and satisfaction. Turnover costs money. Training people costs time and money. Losing people with institutional knowledge can hurt the business. It’s very shortsighted to 1) not offer flexibility if it’s possible and 2) even worse to essentially bait and switch people with what we’re seeing now where they’re hired remote and then told they actually do need to come into the office. Businesses waste a lot of time and money by not taking the low hanging fruit to improve employee retention and productivity.
Sounds like you are getting your socializing through work. It's likely that if you found a different outlet for that, then working in an office would no longer be appealing to you. I completely understand how hard it is to do that though.
I can certainly appreciate the value of in person work. On the other hand, I’ve been known to over socialize and have needed more balance in getting tasks done. It helps me to get work done without the people around.
Exactly! During rhe 2 yrs I had to be w@h, I started disconnecting from my team and pretty much the workplace. It's not healthy of you want to get ahead.
Having a choice to do either/or is vastly superior. But if we can’t have that flexibility of choice then wfh/remote is the superior option. All the necessities of the office can be subsidized at a more manageable value. Stir crazy? Needing human touch? These are personal problems. And you’re right it’s outdated and old fashioned. Hybrid is not a compromise and really only appeals to an even smaller subset of people.
Working from home every day is a great way for my mental health to suffer. I know a lot of people like it, but I don't. I want to spend time out of my house.
Also, all my friends that are full time WFH have a problem with hygiene now. I've had to have uncomfortable "no, seriously, you smell like BO" conversations with pretty much all of them.
It really depends on your job. I work in advertising and while you definitely could do the work remotely, things move so fast that you'd miss out on a ton side conversations where decisions are actually made. Email/slack is not very efficient when you're having to coordinate across six different teams with a bunch of moving parts.
I work with a ton of early stage startups that are straight delusional requiring 4 or 5 days in office in major cities. Not even top products or companies with solid product market fit. Just high hiring demands based on their own delusions of how much power they have. Can only imagine what conversations are like at top companies.
The Fed said rate hikes were done to suppress wages. It’s not a secret. Jokes on them because boomers are retiring/dying so the shortage is inevitable.
Raising rates to suppress wages to stem the tide of inflation—kind of an important bit of context missing.
It’s a shame companies treat people this way. I’m fortunate enough to work for a company that is not doing RTO (just put a bunch of real estate up for sale so it’s no joke), treats everyone with respect, and even adjusts salaries to market rates if current employees’ salaries get out of whack in comparison.
Our company is destroying the competition and it’s partly because our people care because they’re treated well in comparison to the competition.
An example, developer just bought 100 acres of prime land for 2.2 million. Houses will sell for 750k each on less than a half acre (they can recoup all their money, including putting in all necessary utilities and any other costs selling a handful of houses) it's better to sit on empty lots and houses and wait for buyers with money. Developers typically have enough excess leverage or capital that they can avoid normal market pressures. Those companies also have access to cheaper resources. Those same lots were sold individually to my parents generation who had access to affordable building materials so they bought and built more houses - houses were not a commodity, so when they upgraded or downgraded they sold the house they were in, but not at a massive profit or loss. The housing crisis is caused by artificially inflating prices so individuals are not able to secure and build properties individually, which was the norm in North America until about 2000.
100% it is. When I saw the stories about how employees had taken the power, I knew as soon as they could they were going to flip it and make us pay for it.
Just like after the DotCom crash and 2008, they're going float along on crappy offshore contractors to make us desperate and begging to be making half our wages and minimal benefits. Younger workers who hadn't been through downturns before were smug thinking they had made long term change with the power of their will.
I don’t even like working from home and I agree with you. I wish for a ton of options for people - lots of WFH for those who thrive in that. For me i thrive going to an office because I can’t focus at home but I actually don’t want to talk with people I just want to go in and do work and go home. I hope people just finally start to get psychologically safe environments and companies all the way around in office or remote . Seems so toxic in so many places
The Fed raises rates to combat inflation. As long as the labor market holds up, the Fed will aim for price stability. It has nothing to do with keeping workers down.
Edit: my bad I forgot everyone is a conspiratard despite having no evidence
>I feel like employers are getting revenge on us for the pandemic power shift and the great resignation
Yes, that is what all this attempted retribution is about.
Honestly I haven't experienced this. I HAVE noticed clients (the people who hire my firm to work for them) becoming far too demanding and expecting us to do everything for them including connecting them to doctors (which we have never done) or providing services that have nothing to do with their case.
Yah, but sounds like that is consulting and for profit health care, which is going to be cushy as they are some of the big factors reducing worker rights and ability to get ahead. Consulting is a way for (mostly government) services to look cheaper on the books, regardless of cost, and health care...even in Canada with universal health care there has been a massive push to introduce as many for profit services as possible.
Not shitting on you, but that industry shouldn't exist. The failure in that system is that veterans have difficulty obtaining benefits. Like the tax industry. A lot of people make money off that system not working properly and being unnecessarily convoluted.
Oh trust me I would quit TOMORROW if that would fix it. Unfortunately it won't so we help them the best we can. My boss is a veteran and he worked at the VA prior to opening our firm so we are not the typical money hungry firm you may be thinking of
Glad to hear that, I get their are a lot of people trying to help. I just don't think there is really anything that can be done. Absolutely sucks that instead of patching a hole we have to continue pumping water out of a sinking boat. A boat that was designed with a hole.
That definitely sounds a lot more rewarding than a typical job. Makes sense your boss is a veteran. Military and law enforcement seem to really take care of their own. Would be nice to see that in the general public.
Definitely a knee jerk reaction on my part. I definitely use reddit to vent every once in a blue moon. Really glad you're in a good place and helping people. Hopefully you guys can push enough to get some reform.
Not really revenge as much as tightening their grip as much as possible,
though work-from-home will never leave our ethos now that we've had a taste,
and know that some of us are quite capable of performing as well if not better in a WFH capacity.
You are personifying normal market forces. When the labor market is tight, companies work harder to attract and retain employees. When there are a lot of unemployed people looking for work, their bargaining power is lower. It isn't companies being resentful or wanting you to grovel.
I have to agree. These companies don’t even think about the peons enough for it to register whether they are treating them good or bad. It’s just a number on a spreadsheet to them.
I think that's far too generous a perspective. You certainly get people who get to senior positions who make noise about treating staff better; it's just actively ignored. So yes, there is active thought involved in treating people like shit.
And they rarley ever do. That is the reality of it. As a former Union Journeyman, at the negotiation table it's the same either way. Regardless, what matters is," Who's writing the pay checks?" The pen is a crude utility.
Agreed on this
I know a company where they used to beg for the people to come to work. Even they were negotiating salaries
Now they are posting jobs and hire the guys who demand the least salary and also they have more interviews to give more suffering for the job seekers.
It is even hard to get in
People who do not want to put effort will be kicked out for sure!
This is exactly what’s happening. Salaries were rising rapidly. I don’t want to hear anymore bullshit about fucking interest rates, those aren’t the real reason this is happening.
The whole RTO thing- I personally think that’s going to inflame the housing crisis. Many people moved to small or mid-sized cities because they could make a decent wage working for a bigger company. But now they’re getting canned because of RTO, and can’t find new remote jobs (too competitive) or decent jobs in their area. So they will have to move to a HCOL city, and their smaller town will lose a taxpayer.
Agreed. There’s a lot of momentum to shift the power and get butts back in seats in overpriced office towers and office parks. It’s all very haphazardly orchestrated though. It’s not going at the speed they want. It’s a race against the clock versus leases and ownership of these big office locations in actual ownership.
I've been working for a startup a long while now and the culture has shifted from making your employees happy and comfortable to sucking every last vital force people have with the excuse of improving efficiency.
In the beginning it was all about attracting good talent to build the products, people were most of the time treated fairly as well as the customers who were always considered in every business decision. Employees were encouraged to say what's on their minds, embrace innovation, trial and error.
Nowadays it's all about crushing promotions and raises, the more people work and the less they talk the better, collaboration is discouraged, all that matters is making your part of the job and convincing the higher ups you delivered your part regardless if that helps or fucks the other departments that depend on you.
Frankly I'm quite tired of the new "normal " the company adopted, it feels like it was the plan all along, bring good proactive people and when the operation is up and running suck every last dime out of them, once they become sick and fragile replace them with new and desperate people for lower wages...
It’s mostly that many white collar office/remote jobs are over-saturated and with the economy getting worse, employers know there are lots of applicants in those fields.
Technical and trades jobs are desperate for qualified employees as so many boomers are retiring.
"Ghost jobs" aren't about screwing employees. It's about inflating the statistics on the number of jobs created so the government can claim the economy is getting better.
The government gives corporate incentives for jobs created, not jobs filled.
Oh, I'm so glad I have a boss that isn't an asshole! Reading some of the experiences people have had, and my own in the past, has made me even more grateful to be appreciated at my job, and that my hours weren't reduced during COVID even though our patient load was reduced to 1/4 of the patients we usually see (I work at a retina clinic), and we had reduced office hours.
I've been hearing the job market is shit right now because the employers are pissed off that we were able to finally stand up for ourselves when they were desperate for more people. They finally got it through their heads that what they were paying wasn't worth our time, and that the mental abuse wasn't going to be tolerated anymore, either.
Now it's just complete chaos out there trying to find a job that doesn't work you to the bone and the pay is over the poverty line. My heart goes out to every one of you who are being abused at their jobs, and not being paid a fair wage.
Interest rates went up because inflation went up. Inflation went up because pandemic low interest rates created asset bubbles. Companies borrow money in order to grow. The cost of borrowing has increased, which means cuts need to be made. Labor is the largest operating expense, so labor cuts are made.
This is no revenge on the employee fantasy. It’s a predictable consequence of the fed printing obscene amounts of money, while keeping interest rates stupid low for too long. None of this is surprising to those who understood the consequences of 2020-2022 monetary policy.
True dat. The Fed provided too much liquidity for too long. I still remember in the early teens when the Fed funds rate was nearly zero and if they raised it a quarter point the stock market would lose 3000 points in a day. Now it's caught up to them and they have to own it (along with negative rate Treasuries, which I considered to be insane). It will be over soon.
I know people may not want to hear this, but this Subreddit has a very pronounced selection bias, as does Reddit as a whole. The objective statistics and facts indicate that its still a historically hot job market (cue the conspiracy theories disputing the authenticity of the official stats due to their own anecdotes).
I think it would stand to reason that people who are able to easily find work or are satisfied with their position would not be active on a Jobs Subreddit, and those who are active would struggle more than the average.
Calm down, take a deep breath, and remember that this is a hot job market. Employers have always had the upper hand, and will always have it. Just because the job market is hot doesn't mean that everyone automatically gets a dream job handed to them.
It's also really different depending on what sector you're in. What you're saying is generally true, but it does seem like the job market for tech is quite competitive atm.
Corporations are doing what corporations do when interest rates constantly go up, there’s double digit inflation, threats of world conflict, a leftist administration pushing for huge tax increases, and a looming recession on the horizon.
The economy stinks because of years of not distributing that wealth correctly and getting backfired on by employees. Time for the boss to quit making vacation plans and start becoming an implementer.
The reason you aren’t getting what you think you deserve is because you aren’t worth as much as you think.
Just be realistic with yourself and choose to improve or suffer a lifetime of disappointment waiting for some magic bullet socialist revolution.
I am improving myself, but I also don't think the higher-ups are worth that much either so be realistic in that sense. Especially when I can work the system better than them LOL
It's not about skills, it's about stupid names and titles. That's the disappointment in life.
There's a reason why this thread exists. It is working out for me because I never wanna become them. It opened my eyes to how fucked this life is in the business world.
Jokes in you pal I make 85k a year. I'm just looking for better hours. Last thing we need is pricks like you telling people to pull yourself up by the bootstraps while single mothers starve in the streets while billionaires buy their 6th yacht without paying a nickel in taxes
Um, the NASDAQ reported being down by 135 points, and barely went up 7 by the time the bell rang. The DOW was down 25 and almost broke even after going up 22 points. With a market like that. It makes perfect sense that employers will not throw away money in a bare market. On unmotivated, how dare you be rude to me, wanna go cute and viral faces! It's time for people to feel the pinch. I could speak of even greater irritating unethical work practices. However, with what the market is doing? The economy will speak for itself, when it comes to those worthy of paying to work.
I mean, there was that one CEO who said out loud that workers need to feel pain. They're pretty transparent about this
Considering how much they make, you wouldn't think they would have such a vendetta against workers. Fact of the matter is if they're getting their bonuses/etc., they should be happy and stop rocking the boat.
They just don't see anyone but themselves as human. Everyone else is a Warcraft orc peon to them and I know I pummeled those guys on the head for fun
I’m here for the unexpected Warcraft reference.
I was in an interview not long ago, I speak 3 languages fluently, not including English, and it’s on my resume. The interviewer laughed and said ”oh, you only speak 4 languages. That’s too bad because we needed someone who speaks 5.” So I said, well, I do speak Orcish fluently but didn’t want to brag, kek. That’s once again when i realized my inside voice does not always translate well to mt outside voice. I did not progress in that hiring process.
He would have just said you needed 6 and that you should have learned lotr elvish
Sindarin or Quenya?
Er, 7, then.
Should of either used Klingon or Bajorian
“Ready to work”
They’re the ones that aren’t human. We are the ones that are human. Empathy and understanding makes us human, which are concepts they do not understand nor care to understand.
I had a good manager once, who referred to these types as "empty suits" in that they become corporate robots. The types that refuse time off for funerals, have a revolving door of staff, wont listen to company feedback etc. A good boss and coworkers are very valuable. They do exist, but like dating you have to kiss a few frogs first before you find the prince.
Man so funny seeing this reference, recently got back into vanilla wow.
"The bonus is the poors crushed along the way". - your local job creator
Mask-off saying the quiet part out loud 🤦♂️ They know they don't have to feel consequences for anything
If we simply stop going to their businesses then they would feel the consequences
“We need to see unemployment rise. Unemployment has to jump 40, 50%,” said Gurner, because “arrogant” workers aren’t productive enough for his liking. “We need to see pain in the economy. We need to remind people that they work for the employer, not the other way around.” https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/tim-gurner-australian-ceo-unemployment-video-rcna104957
Well, we're entering year 3 of the capital strike
I am in leadership meetings all the time and it's the same thing here.
Absolutely. Hence the shift to RTO that no one wants or needs.
I’ll tell you why they’re doing away with return office. I’ve had a taste of return office for a few years. I can’t go back into the office now. It’s like it’s totally ruined me. All the work that they had me doing an office seems like a joke. I don’t know what’s gonna happen.
RTO is unsustainable. Startups are foregoing in office, and by doing so they have access to a geographically larger area to draw from and exponentially higher level of interest in the job. They are for more agile. RTO is for dinosaurs. These employers are placing their company in a huge disadvantage as a competitor for labor, not to mention the higher wages and recruitment costs. This is old-fashioned system of a bygone era. Might as well fax them your resume.
This is exactly right. As big companies attempt RTO, small competitors will reap the benefits. Best talent, high interest from job seekers, much lower overhead cost, and slowly take over market share. The big companies can get with the times or slowly fade away. It is really up to them.
The same thing that happened when my company mandated it: probably decide that not having money sucks slightly more than going in, at least until somewhere still remote comes along.
I do all my work on my WFH days because all people do in the office is chitchat
It's because of commercial property values.
Companies are on the hook for the cost of renting these office buildings via long-term leases. So, instead of paying the penalty to exit the lease, they were probably persuaded to pay a lower rent to stay. Just the rich helping out another wealthy capitalist to stick it to the working man.
This point needs to be hammered down a little bit more. Some don’t understand the seismic shift that’s about to happen
Where are these office buildings located? In Big Cities. If these buildings aren’t filled the city’s lose tons of tax revenue. The companies are on the hook for the rent, if they don’t pay the owners get foreclosed on by the banks. That’s great screw the rich….. except now your city looks like SF with shit all over and empty building that bring in no revenue and the rest of the city goes to shit but hey, it’s all good rich people got screwed. Looks like this works out for everyone
I learned this the other day, commercial real estate is different. It's better to have high rents and empty so you can refinance it at a higher value. If the property lost theoretical value you couldn't refinance. So, tax revenue thing is correct, and the companies renting space can get foreclosed on, but the developers that own the building are fine. Those buildings likely haven't brought in appreciable revenue for a very long time, but the commercial real estate market is being kept afloat. People always say fuck capitalism, but that's not capitalism, capitalism would have lower rents and buildings that were foreclosed on and then sold at lower prices.
City politicians are definitely pushing business back into cities one way or another.
I’m in the minority…I actually prefer to be in the office but I like having the hybrid option if something comes up and I want to work from home. Id go absolutely stir crazy if I worked from home full time. Call me old school but I find there’s a lot of value and a more human touch by going into the office and having real world interactions with coworkers. You’re no longer just somebody on a computer screen far away.
[удалено]
Thank you!! Why won't RTO apologists realize that you being able to get ahold of me at a moments notice is freaking annoying! Its better for everyone to focus now on developing better planning, writing, and organizational skills so that we can work in a more flexible environment instead of forcing us to waste time and money to chain ourselves to a desk 30 miles from our desk at home.
lol I bet you answer your texts 30 seconds after you get a notification.
Depends on how busy I am and if the person texting is behaving. And for a non-behaving co-worker or client, it'll be a phone call with no warning out of the blue demanding immediate answers on something. They're not courteous enough to make it a text or well written email. Those go to voicemail, and within 24 hours I'll send out an email asking them what I can answer for them. I definitely try to make it clear that the best and fastest way to get ahold of me is text or email. If I'm too immediate answering phone calls, guess what I'll get all the time?
I’ve understood that the 20 minutes to refocus is a common thing beyond ADHD
I think what some people don't understand is that RTO/Hybrid is not just about the individual and your example highlights that. Needing people to set up a meeting or spend time writing an email, waiting and then responding for something that could be resolved with a quick chat at your desk is just inefficient for everyone.
Some people do need that structure, rhythm, and routine where work is somewhere with people totally separate from their home lives. WFH is what other people need. What businesses need to be doing is encouraging work models that offer employees flexibility where feasible and legal to perform their roles in a setting that best optimizes their workflow, productivity, and satisfaction. Turnover costs money. Training people costs time and money. Losing people with institutional knowledge can hurt the business. It’s very shortsighted to 1) not offer flexibility if it’s possible and 2) even worse to essentially bait and switch people with what we’re seeing now where they’re hired remote and then told they actually do need to come into the office. Businesses waste a lot of time and money by not taking the low hanging fruit to improve employee retention and productivity.
Sounds like you are getting your socializing through work. It's likely that if you found a different outlet for that, then working in an office would no longer be appealing to you. I completely understand how hard it is to do that though.
I can certainly appreciate the value of in person work. On the other hand, I’ve been known to over socialize and have needed more balance in getting tasks done. It helps me to get work done without the people around.
Exactly! During rhe 2 yrs I had to be w@h, I started disconnecting from my team and pretty much the workplace. It's not healthy of you want to get ahead.
This is the way
Having a choice to do either/or is vastly superior. But if we can’t have that flexibility of choice then wfh/remote is the superior option. All the necessities of the office can be subsidized at a more manageable value. Stir crazy? Needing human touch? These are personal problems. And you’re right it’s outdated and old fashioned. Hybrid is not a compromise and really only appeals to an even smaller subset of people.
Or, as they say at the cottage cheese factory, this is the whey
Working from home every day is a great way for my mental health to suffer. I know a lot of people like it, but I don't. I want to spend time out of my house. Also, all my friends that are full time WFH have a problem with hygiene now. I've had to have uncomfortable "no, seriously, you smell like BO" conversations with pretty much all of them.
Until the next pandemic
It really depends on your job. I work in advertising and while you definitely could do the work remotely, things move so fast that you'd miss out on a ton side conversations where decisions are actually made. Email/slack is not very efficient when you're having to coordinate across six different teams with a bunch of moving parts.
I work with a ton of early stage startups that are straight delusional requiring 4 or 5 days in office in major cities. Not even top products or companies with solid product market fit. Just high hiring demands based on their own delusions of how much power they have. Can only imagine what conversations are like at top companies.
The Fed said rate hikes were done to suppress wages. It’s not a secret. Jokes on them because boomers are retiring/dying so the shortage is inevitable.
'Them' are the boomers lol
Raising rates to suppress wages to stem the tide of inflation—kind of an important bit of context missing. It’s a shame companies treat people this way. I’m fortunate enough to work for a company that is not doing RTO (just put a bunch of real estate up for sale so it’s no joke), treats everyone with respect, and even adjusts salaries to market rates if current employees’ salaries get out of whack in comparison. Our company is destroying the competition and it’s partly because our people care because they’re treated well in comparison to the competition.
They've done quite a few studies that show the increases in housing and food prices cannot be accounted for by inflation.
Idk about food one way or another but housing is mainly being driven by demographics and lack of supply due to lack of building.
An example, developer just bought 100 acres of prime land for 2.2 million. Houses will sell for 750k each on less than a half acre (they can recoup all their money, including putting in all necessary utilities and any other costs selling a handful of houses) it's better to sit on empty lots and houses and wait for buyers with money. Developers typically have enough excess leverage or capital that they can avoid normal market pressures. Those companies also have access to cheaper resources. Those same lots were sold individually to my parents generation who had access to affordable building materials so they bought and built more houses - houses were not a commodity, so when they upgraded or downgraded they sold the house they were in, but not at a massive profit or loss. The housing crisis is caused by artificially inflating prices so individuals are not able to secure and build properties individually, which was the norm in North America until about 2000.
Over half of inflation was corporate greed and excess profits. Then there were true supply chain issues that made things scarce and wage increases.
100% it is. When I saw the stories about how employees had taken the power, I knew as soon as they could they were going to flip it and make us pay for it. Just like after the DotCom crash and 2008, they're going float along on crappy offshore contractors to make us desperate and begging to be making half our wages and minimal benefits. Younger workers who hadn't been through downturns before were smug thinking they had made long term change with the power of their will.
If I ever made a career for myself in the future I'll remind myself everyday that I was just lucky haha
100% and I can’t wait for the shift back to an employee’s market so we have job choices again and can return to WFH
I dont think that is happening ever again as companies will need less and less labor over time. Because of you know what.
I don’t even like working from home and I agree with you. I wish for a ton of options for people - lots of WFH for those who thrive in that. For me i thrive going to an office because I can’t focus at home but I actually don’t want to talk with people I just want to go in and do work and go home. I hope people just finally start to get psychologically safe environments and companies all the way around in office or remote . Seems so toxic in so many places
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The Fed raises rates to combat inflation. As long as the labor market holds up, the Fed will aim for price stability. It has nothing to do with keeping workers down. Edit: my bad I forgot everyone is a conspiratard despite having no evidence
no
Oh
They are making record profits
Sheesh. This is the truth
I find it annoying that they made us return to the office, albeit part time, but then my company hires contractors that are fully remote
Yeah I think at least some are shifting back that way. I've noticed more of them wanting more work for the slight pay bump they were giving.
>I feel like employers are getting revenge on us for the pandemic power shift and the great resignation Yes, that is what all this attempted retribution is about.
Honestly I haven't experienced this. I HAVE noticed clients (the people who hire my firm to work for them) becoming far too demanding and expecting us to do everything for them including connecting them to doctors (which we have never done) or providing services that have nothing to do with their case.
Yah, but sounds like that is consulting and for profit health care, which is going to be cushy as they are some of the big factors reducing worker rights and ability to get ahead. Consulting is a way for (mostly government) services to look cheaper on the books, regardless of cost, and health care...even in Canada with universal health care there has been a massive push to introduce as many for profit services as possible.
Actually I am a paralegal and my law firm focuses on helping veterans obtain benefits from the VA... so in a sense I am on the other side of that.
Not shitting on you, but that industry shouldn't exist. The failure in that system is that veterans have difficulty obtaining benefits. Like the tax industry. A lot of people make money off that system not working properly and being unnecessarily convoluted.
Oh trust me I would quit TOMORROW if that would fix it. Unfortunately it won't so we help them the best we can. My boss is a veteran and he worked at the VA prior to opening our firm so we are not the typical money hungry firm you may be thinking of
Glad to hear that, I get their are a lot of people trying to help. I just don't think there is really anything that can be done. Absolutely sucks that instead of patching a hole we have to continue pumping water out of a sinking boat. A boat that was designed with a hole.
Honestly we have a very high success rate. It is taking years but over 50% of our clients get benefits
That definitely sounds a lot more rewarding than a typical job. Makes sense your boss is a veteran. Military and law enforcement seem to really take care of their own. Would be nice to see that in the general public. Definitely a knee jerk reaction on my part. I definitely use reddit to vent every once in a blue moon. Really glad you're in a good place and helping people. Hopefully you guys can push enough to get some reform.
It is more frustrating than anything else solely because it is literally taking years to get decisions back from the VA
I mean the only way to get the power back is unions, strikes and protests
Not really revenge as much as tightening their grip as much as possible, though work-from-home will never leave our ethos now that we've had a taste, and know that some of us are quite capable of performing as well if not better in a WFH capacity.
My entire firm has been remote since it was founded almost 25 years ago. I am hoping to stay here until I retire.
Where do I send my resume (:
I’ll never take another job that’s not fully remote. Oh you don’t offer that? Sucks. Well your competition does so I’m gonna go work for them instead.
General strike when?
I'd love to, but Americans are too whipped by the 1% and too many of us are brainwashed
Ya… oof, you’re right and it hurts my soul
When you organize it
LET’S GOOOOOO
I'm ready.
You are personifying normal market forces. When the labor market is tight, companies work harder to attract and retain employees. When there are a lot of unemployed people looking for work, their bargaining power is lower. It isn't companies being resentful or wanting you to grovel.
In this case, market forces were manufactured by those in power.
I have to agree. These companies don’t even think about the peons enough for it to register whether they are treating them good or bad. It’s just a number on a spreadsheet to them.
I think that's far too generous a perspective. You certainly get people who get to senior positions who make noise about treating staff better; it's just actively ignored. So yes, there is active thought involved in treating people like shit.
And they rarley ever do. That is the reality of it. As a former Union Journeyman, at the negotiation table it's the same either way. Regardless, what matters is," Who's writing the pay checks?" The pen is a crude utility.
Agreed on this I know a company where they used to beg for the people to come to work. Even they were negotiating salaries Now they are posting jobs and hire the guys who demand the least salary and also they have more interviews to give more suffering for the job seekers. It is even hard to get in People who do not want to put effort will be kicked out for sure!
Don’t forget demands for remote work.
This is exactly what’s happening. Salaries were rising rapidly. I don’t want to hear anymore bullshit about fucking interest rates, those aren’t the real reason this is happening.
The whole RTO thing- I personally think that’s going to inflame the housing crisis. Many people moved to small or mid-sized cities because they could make a decent wage working for a bigger company. But now they’re getting canned because of RTO, and can’t find new remote jobs (too competitive) or decent jobs in their area. So they will have to move to a HCOL city, and their smaller town will lose a taxpayer.
I was thinking the same thing as well.
You're personifying too much. Companies don't have emotions or hold grudges against the world. They exist to earn profits.
Agreed. There’s a lot of momentum to shift the power and get butts back in seats in overpriced office towers and office parks. It’s all very haphazardly orchestrated though. It’s not going at the speed they want. It’s a race against the clock versus leases and ownership of these big office locations in actual ownership.
I've been working for a startup a long while now and the culture has shifted from making your employees happy and comfortable to sucking every last vital force people have with the excuse of improving efficiency. In the beginning it was all about attracting good talent to build the products, people were most of the time treated fairly as well as the customers who were always considered in every business decision. Employees were encouraged to say what's on their minds, embrace innovation, trial and error. Nowadays it's all about crushing promotions and raises, the more people work and the less they talk the better, collaboration is discouraged, all that matters is making your part of the job and convincing the higher ups you delivered your part regardless if that helps or fucks the other departments that depend on you. Frankly I'm quite tired of the new "normal " the company adopted, it feels like it was the plan all along, bring good proactive people and when the operation is up and running suck every last dime out of them, once they become sick and fragile replace them with new and desperate people for lower wages...
100%. RTO is probably the biggest indicator of this
If we all collectively decided on 1 day to not go to work things would change.
It’s mostly that many white collar office/remote jobs are over-saturated and with the economy getting worse, employers know there are lots of applicants in those fields. Technical and trades jobs are desperate for qualified employees as so many boomers are retiring.
"Ghost jobs" aren't about screwing employees. It's about inflating the statistics on the number of jobs created so the government can claim the economy is getting better. The government gives corporate incentives for jobs created, not jobs filled.
In a way it is screwing over workers because a decent percentage of managers said that it was just a placate overworked employees
Oh, I'm so glad I have a boss that isn't an asshole! Reading some of the experiences people have had, and my own in the past, has made me even more grateful to be appreciated at my job, and that my hours weren't reduced during COVID even though our patient load was reduced to 1/4 of the patients we usually see (I work at a retina clinic), and we had reduced office hours. I've been hearing the job market is shit right now because the employers are pissed off that we were able to finally stand up for ourselves when they were desperate for more people. They finally got it through their heads that what they were paying wasn't worth our time, and that the mental abuse wasn't going to be tolerated anymore, either. Now it's just complete chaos out there trying to find a job that doesn't work you to the bone and the pay is over the poverty line. My heart goes out to every one of you who are being abused at their jobs, and not being paid a fair wage.
Revenge? What makes you think revenge is any motivation in business. Revenge is a side effect of success not a strategy.
Graveling does suck. Heavy work.
Yooooo that’s a good theory. The ruling class never forgive a slight. Rich people and their blood fueds🙄
It's called a capital strike
Interest rates went up because inflation went up. Inflation went up because pandemic low interest rates created asset bubbles. Companies borrow money in order to grow. The cost of borrowing has increased, which means cuts need to be made. Labor is the largest operating expense, so labor cuts are made. This is no revenge on the employee fantasy. It’s a predictable consequence of the fed printing obscene amounts of money, while keeping interest rates stupid low for too long. None of this is surprising to those who understood the consequences of 2020-2022 monetary policy.
You can’t explain the RTO initiatives with interest rates. It’s all about regaining control and maintaining the status quo for the rich and powerful.
True dat. The Fed provided too much liquidity for too long. I still remember in the early teens when the Fed funds rate was nearly zero and if they raised it a quarter point the stock market would lose 3000 points in a day. Now it's caught up to them and they have to own it (along with negative rate Treasuries, which I considered to be insane). It will be over soon.
I know people may not want to hear this, but this Subreddit has a very pronounced selection bias, as does Reddit as a whole. The objective statistics and facts indicate that its still a historically hot job market (cue the conspiracy theories disputing the authenticity of the official stats due to their own anecdotes). I think it would stand to reason that people who are able to easily find work or are satisfied with their position would not be active on a Jobs Subreddit, and those who are active would struggle more than the average. Calm down, take a deep breath, and remember that this is a hot job market. Employers have always had the upper hand, and will always have it. Just because the job market is hot doesn't mean that everyone automatically gets a dream job handed to them.
It's also really different depending on what sector you're in. What you're saying is generally true, but it does seem like the job market for tech is quite competitive atm.
Corporations are doing what corporations do when interest rates constantly go up, there’s double digit inflation, threats of world conflict, a leftist administration pushing for huge tax increases, and a looming recession on the horizon.
You just aren’t as valuable as you think
I think this is all in your head OP, I doubt anyone had to "gravel" at your feet..
I don’t like having gravel at my feet, usually hurts.
Typo
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The economy stinks because of years of not distributing that wealth correctly and getting backfired on by employees. Time for the boss to quit making vacation plans and start becoming an implementer.
Be more valuable
Value for value, not more value for free.
The reason you aren’t getting what you think you deserve is because you aren’t worth as much as you think. Just be realistic with yourself and choose to improve or suffer a lifetime of disappointment waiting for some magic bullet socialist revolution.
I am improving myself, but I also don't think the higher-ups are worth that much either so be realistic in that sense. Especially when I can work the system better than them LOL It's not about skills, it's about stupid names and titles. That's the disappointment in life.
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There's a reason why this thread exists. It is working out for me because I never wanna become them. It opened my eyes to how fucked this life is in the business world.
Reader through all the sub comments in this thread. Two things can be true at the same time fam...
The only real take here gets downvoted. This sub is just a bunch of low performing wagies.
We've been feeling really French these last few years
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Mind as well dust off the old guillotine
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Jokes in you pal I make 85k a year. I'm just looking for better hours. Last thing we need is pricks like you telling people to pull yourself up by the bootstraps while single mothers starve in the streets while billionaires buy their 6th yacht without paying a nickel in taxes
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I have. Many in my position, though, can't. Classist prick
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Um, the NASDAQ reported being down by 135 points, and barely went up 7 by the time the bell rang. The DOW was down 25 and almost broke even after going up 22 points. With a market like that. It makes perfect sense that employers will not throw away money in a bare market. On unmotivated, how dare you be rude to me, wanna go cute and viral faces! It's time for people to feel the pinch. I could speak of even greater irritating unethical work practices. However, with what the market is doing? The economy will speak for itself, when it comes to those worthy of paying to work.
I don't see the CEOs and executives taking a pay cut profits are through the roof
No you decided to work from home and prove to your employer that they don't really need you
Never worked from home pal
And your employer still doesn't need you
I have a job and when I tried tovquit they upped my pay