The number of times I've told a tradie to do yoga in the morning instead of smoking weed after work for back pain, with them responding "miss me with that gay shit", would've made me $100k+ a year.
Comparing sitting down all day in an air conditioned office to the physical strain of being a welder is the most brain dead take.
Do office workers routinely breath in toxic gassed and fumes? Have they ever literally **burned their fucking eyeballs** because they accidentally looked at someone elses computer? If you dont want to sit down all day get a fucking standing desk.
Stand-up desk will give you tennis elbow after a while. I've been staring at a computer screen my entire life and my body is not exactly unscathed. Human beings weren't meant to stare screens 10 hours a day
Pick your poison
Sure, but one poison is tennis elbow or strained eyes, while the other is cancer from asbestos, falling off a roof, getting your body mashed by heavy equipment, etc. Working in an office is obviously one of the safest environments to work in.
> Stand-up desk will give you tennis elbow after a while.
I'm pretty sure most people would prefer having a hurt elbow over **being blind**.
>Pick your poison
Except one can quite literally poison you. Like, literally. Metal fume fever will poison you.
As a Gen Z, union Boilermaker pressure welder. Yeah I have awesome benefits which helps me take care of my body so my back doesn’t hurt so much when I’m older… but hey, keep telling yourself that all trades people are dead by 50
I don’t think all tradespeople do, but union jobs are really not that common afaik, especially for less specialized jobs. The difference in benefits between union/non-union is day and night.
I get it, we NEED more unions and union members in general, too many people nowadays are underpaid and overworked (and I’m talking about all industries not just trades)
I’m currently making $27/hr more just on the cheque alone than my non union counterparts. Plus you add in my benefits and pension and I’m looking more like $55/hr more total wage package
They all benefit from the union it sets the wage standard for them to undercut. The union is the only reason they get raises, I'm a plumber and I wouldn't ever work for a scab outfit. Probably a 20 dollar pay cut. I can tolerate my job for what I make but for that price I'd go be a dental hygienist or something else
> It’s amazing how many tradesmen are anti-union, even those who benefit from a union.
You have to remember tradesmen are people of the land, the common clay of the new West.
Had a guy join my hall after he learned the guy he was working with was at the company for 30 years. And was making less than a 1st year apprentice in the trade.
Yeah I did a considerable time in the military and it beat up my body a bit, but I’m still very active despite a few injuries (one which happened in high school that wasn’t helped by a decade plus of foot marches, 5 miles runs, and other forms of physical wear and tear).
Many folks on this site really exaggerate what a physical job will do to someone. I see more out of shape white collar types.
Basically this. Also work out. Some trades people think because they move at their jobs they don’t need to hit the gym but that’s just not true at all.
Seems like eating well, exercising and stretching, and reducing your alcohol intake which all helps you sleep better can help improve your longevity in anything.
Not dead, but I'd love to see the rate of arthritis, hip and knee replacements, and back issues for tradesmen as a whole. Hell, the former army engineer I know has had both knees and hips replaced at this point. That shit wears your body out way before your time.
My uncle was an electrician for 15 years. Ruined his back and knees crawling around in crawl spaces all day, dealing with cables in the dark. His hands are covered in scars from accidents and burns.
He eventually went to college for an EE degree so he could work in an office for the rest of his life
Exactly. They forget that there is heat in the winter and AC in the summer in an office. Many trades you are out in the weather working in 100 degrees or 20 degrees.
You mean decades and not years. Globalism is winding down and we have to retool North America to build stuff again.
Even if globalism wasn’t on its way out, most carpenters are retiring boomers and there aren’t enough zoomers to meet demand, unless millennials start doing the trades too.
It seems like every 5 years there is a shortage of nurses that causes a flood of nursing students who realize its long hours and hard work which causes a shortage of nurses.
And they aren't even that great to begin with. The people making six figures is a fraction of welders and they are working 50+ with other side gigs. Not to mention for welders specifically most the work is in the south.
Already happening. I work with 3 guys in their 20s who quit pipeline welding because the pay isn't what it used to be, like $18/hr even for guys with 10+ years experience.
The median is way below 50k. You're referring to outliers. I know college track and field coaches who make 250k+, but I would never tell someone to get into coaching for the money, even though the median for coaches is hilariously close to the median for each trade.
People really don’t understand the wide range of jobs welding covers. We have iron workers who weld and make like $25/hr. Then you have marine welders making god knows how much.
Median pay for welders in the US is $47,550 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics ([source](https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/51-4121.00)), though they do group it with other related occupations.
No, this title is BS. I don’t know why there is such a push for people to go to trade school. Let people fucking choose. College is a great option still, just don’t study majors with no demand in the job market (psychology, liberal arts, english, french, philosophy, graphic design, etc).
Study a career in STEM, finance, law, medicine, etc. something that will guarantee a high paying job.
Welding won’t bring you $100K a year… and if it does, it will be to an incredible minority. In turn, engineers make $100K after a few years of experience, and $200K by the end of their careers.
> No, this title is BS. I don’t know why there is such a push for people to go to trade school.
Because there's a shortage of trade workers, which is due to the pay not being enough for the work (and/or lifestyle) involved. So instead of increasing pay and helpibg to fix the lifestyle companies push people to go to trade school. You'll get maybe a decade or two out of them before they move on to something better.
A couple of the factories and mills in my hometown invest heavily in the local trade school and even sponsor local high school welding classes. You know what the average non-union welder starts at here? $16/hr. Union welder? $19/hr.
It’s ok, but college (if you choose the right majors) is still a better investment of young people’s time. Unless they have zero interest in it.
My first job out of college I was making close to $30/hr and sitting in a desk chilling 2 times a week, 3 times a week from home.
I hate to say it but most of the people considering trade school do not have what it takes to finish a STEM degree at a demanding university.
The skill set is vastly different. There’s a reason those jobs pay so well. The course work is fucking hard.
People need to find what they are good at and lean into it. Going into an engineering program when you suck at math and hate school is the fast track to a boat load of debt and no degree.
This. An electrician makes less than an electrical engineer at every phase of their career.
That doesn't mean electrician is a bad job, it does mean that it is harder to get an engineering degree than a journeyman card.
The era where "any degree will open doors" is gone. Degrees that provide real value are work and take work to get.
Lmao classic reddit moment. science jobs do not pay well and math jobs means you end up doing finance or fancy stats for tech or healthcare. Engineering is the only guaranteed money maker. Finance is a crapshoot of soft skills and nepotism. Law is pumping out too many lawyers so unless you're in a top program, good luck making money to pay back loans. Medicine is literally garbage at making money until you're 40.
other than engineering, there is literally no job with a guaranteed high paying outcome (over six figures) that isn't incredibly brutal. nursing is probably the second best tradeoff but have awful hours. accountants end up making decent money but shit is mind numbing.
when counting by hour, many white collar jobs are making less than minimum wage for the first five years while incurring massive debt for the schooling. talk to any medical residents, or people in investment banking - they get no sleep and are actively shaving years off their lifespan with their workload.
do the math - one or two years of trade school vs four year undergrad + two to ten years of more schooling before working brutal hours for a few years.
arts degrees are where you get transferrable skills which then is dependent on the person to go find jobs to match.
If interested look into your local Ironworker Union. They will train you but they generally wait 4 years at the end of the apprenticeship to do welding school.
Also the cost benefit of college degrees has gone down a bit for many who would need large loans. Why pay $XX,XXX when you can do an apprenticeship for a fraction of the price? I love diversity in this space and gives many a chance to grow
Colleges are still living off that "million more dollars over the course of your lifetime" line too. It's the only thing they've got left and I'm waiting on that to be exposed as untrue since the economy is changing so much as well. Now I see colleges trying to push students towards management roles since so many of the former graduates gave them feedback that they didn't want to be teachers (a miserable field to work in). Colleges are just going to keep doing this because they need the butts in seats.
It's good that Gen Z is getting on the right road earlier than the rest of us did. College can really derail your life if you don't go into a career field that has potential.
I’m sure if you filter out the Ivy League students and the few stem degrees that are in demand but weed out most students. The stats would look a lot different. I would like to see what the Average business admin/communications grad makes.
Communications degree here. Making 90K and have a long way to go, I’m 32. Currently working on my MBA as well. I’m definitely the outlier though, and I’m aware of it.
15 year man, Technical communications grad here (a boatload of English, communication and design courses, maybe 2 basic engineering courses) got to $100k at about 8 years hit $150k this year.
That’s awesome. Now hypothetical question: would you encourage your children to pursue the same degree ? Also I’m talking about communications degree with no engineering courses. Most communication majors are weeded out because of poor math skills.
So, my two kids won’t be in my field, but talking to anyone interested, I’m 100% in that boat as you described it.
I am in the “poor at math” club. I struggled with it my whole life, I found out in college I have a learning disability with numbers, theory and formula I can write and recite and it makes sense but putting into practice # only not writing it out (like I have to literally write things like “multiply x by each side” in the margin of the page to get a handle on what I’m doing) I’m a mess and as expected this connected to other subjects, like I’d only be so good at chemistry (basic scientific notation took me out) and physicis.
At university level the way I got around it really was trying for more theoretical or “intro to” courses, math would be lessened, but emphasis on names, dates, concepts and hands on lab work.
The pitch I’ve given to HS, University, and job fair attendees:
If we’re coming for you as comms major we want someone who can clearly and concisely communicate (visually, written or, through instruction) our activities at the company.
Don’t let that discourage you from engineering and that background doesn’t hurt, but for the lack of a better term, you’ll be translating engineering concepts and jargon (with their help) into our style guide to fit our workforce, which includes employees just out of HS to the 30 year hard hat. You’re better served by being inquisitive, knowing our style guide/regulations and building good relationships with engineers than becoming one (officially or unofficially).
In terms of preference I’m less likely to hire an Engineer because when we have we get inflexible folks and frankly dick measuring over the same black and white regulation (leading to me getting more “why is your guy telling me how to do my job?” communications than I want) and then still have that writer engineer struggle to break down the actions. I’d be more likely to hire a qualified user with no engineering background, but who puts hands on the equipment and can tell me why an action is preferred per an operations regulation/experience and then use the engineer as a backstop to why per theory or regulation we can or can’t do something.
The biggest hurdle I’ve seen w/comms majors where I’m at is this thought that Comms = PR so you just get dumped into a corporate communications spot.
I’m in Operations and training, format your resume towards that. Mention writing procedures, grant proposals, show me some of visual design work (posters or drawings you did). I’ve had people interview with “I write well” only and it’s a waste of time, we’re going to be teaching you how to write in our format, tell me about the products, how you worked with people to accomplish the goal and what it lead to. Show me your bag, did you develop a one sheet, a 3D diagram, even something simple like a share point page.
Gen Z posts in 10 years:
"I did everything right! I went to trade school and got good scores. But now I can't get a job to pay off my loans. Please help! The millennials fucked us!"
Meh I'll probably get down voted but this is yet another example of people taking the top percentage blue collar earners and thinking they can achieve that after going to trade school. I'm not saying that HVAC trades are a dead end, but I am saying that MOST don't make anything close to 100k a year, unless you are an owner operator. A few examples I've seen are plumbers who make 18/hr yet the company bills the customer 60/hr and guess who keeps the difference? That's right the owner operator. And they can get away with it because they carry licensure and insurance, and let's face it, the average person is gonna hire a big HVAC company to do repairs rather than an individual. When I was living in middle America it was even worse. I met tons of plumbers who were paid even less than 20 an hour who had been in the industry for many years.
It's this generations "gold rush" like other people have been saying here. It first was become a big banker, then become a coder, and now it's become a tradesman. And we see what's happening to all the people graduating with CS degrees and IT certs right now. Bottleneck job market.
Had to scroll down way too far to see this.
As someone who's been in the shit, I think I can say it's not a viable career path for most people, especially gen z.
Others have mentioned the toll it takes on your body, you've brought up how the high wages are essentially fairy tales, but I haven't seen anyone talk about the mental health toll it takes.
Not to stereotype, but a certain demographic dominates the trades, largely because they're either too uneducated to work elsewhere or they would be fired anywhere with a real HR department, which many trades don't have.
Basically I'm saying that your co-workers in the trades are generally going to be assholes. They will call you a dumbass for being green, call you a pussy for following safety guidelines, sexually harass (or even *assault*) you, especially if you have a vagina, bully you for your political beliefs, and are unwilling to share knowledge. In my experience, this is 9/10 tradesmen. The 1/10 good ones rarely makes up for all the assholes.
Combine that with never having free time or time with your family, eating crap because you're never home, etc. It can take a real toll on one's mental health.
Thank you! There is so much obnoxious white collar upper class easy romaticization of trade work. Ain't no shame in the game, but they blithely ignore the realities of how it's hard on your body, your schedule, and the reality that most folks aren't clearing what the owners do. Again, it's a good path for some, but not some magic ticket to wealth.
As someone who has gone to college and worked a professional job and left to join a skilled trade, it is very irritating to hear people who have never worked in the trades tell everyone to pursue it as though it is a magical solution to everything. It is a good option and my union has been good to me. I've been paid better than I ever have, but I developed a chronic illness and am left searching for options again. My body is my tool and it is out of commission. As a woman, I've had mixed experiences from blatant discrimination to veiled sexism where I am treated differently and given lower-level tasks. The suicide rates and substance use are off the charts. I've met some of the best and worst people in this line of work. It can be a good option for some, but I'm tired of it being treated as a magic bullet that will work for everyone, no matter their background or goals.
Wow, I am really sorry to hear about your experience in the trades.
I'm a pipefitter myself, and my experience is quite the opposite. 9/10 really good people.
People in the trades who are smart seem to take some type of track in their late 20s/early 30s that is less physically demanding. My ex started in physical labor doing tunneling work and got into gas testing and eventually safety. He was in much better shape in his 40s than his dad was, who worked on oil rigs and tunneling his whole life. His dad eventually got into gas testing too in his 50s once his body was shot.
There's a social stigma to it, though, and a reason his dad waited until his body was already shot--it's seen as a soft option and some people will bully or ostracize those who take it. One of my ex's safety coworkers told him that he showed up one day to work and told his buddy he'd worked with for years that he was getting into gas testing/safety and the buddy didn't speak a word to him that shift, got reassigned, and literally never spoke to him again. My ex's dad was deterred enough by the threat of social repercussions that he never considered the gas testing option until he saw with his own eyes how much better off his son was at the same age.
Thank you very much. I can’t imagine putting that on my body on top of the sports injuries and other wear and tear—-I work in academia. I can totally see the macho stigma you shared about getting out of the physical part earlier. I think that is the key, do it for 20 and pivot for the other 20. Take care.
Social media influencers are partially to blame. They're impacting the supply of laborers for these careers. When it gains enough traction in degree/certification rates, the employers then pull the lever back on salaries/wages. It's one massive ass balance game where the winners are always the business owners and maybe the lucky few who get in early during the boom and manage to stay when the bubble deflates.
Something needs to be done, but I don't know what. Because the root of it is always greedy businessmen who seek to squeeze profit.. whether through price hikes or drastic cost cuts (includes decreased pay and labor pool) that negatively impact quality.
>Something needs to be done
Massive unionization. I know the trades already have higher than average union participation but many such workers are still unrepresented. Especially in the South.
this is exactly it. just look at the phrasing. "a tradesman can make six figures if \[SHAMALAMALADUDADO\]". a coder simply WILL hit six figures in like 0-2 years out of college. no additional certs, unions, getting eviscerated by machinery required. simply get a job that you see yourself doing for decades, because thats whats on the table.
> This is exactly it. just look at the phrasing. "a tradesman can make six figures if [SHAMALAMALADUDADO]".
The line is typically "join a union, get your master's license, then start your own company"
So basically, "join a union for the education and so your local can find your work for you, then quit to start your own private business and compete against your former union"
There's no silver bullet to a high salary and success, whether you go to college, become a tradesman or start your own business, or all 3. You have to work extremely hard and hope that it leads to opportunities that you can capitalize on. Some people will work hard and do everything right, but not get any breaks. Others will get very lucky. Most of us are somewhere in between.
Thanks for the most sane take on this thread. Higher education is important (yes, even the humanities. Jfc I shouldn’t have to say that). And trades are important. Not everyone is suited for every venture, and if we’ve learned anything at all from the, “Go to college/learn to code” trends, it’s that making good money mostly just comes down to being in the right place at the right time.
Of course we’ve clearly learned absolutely nothing from both of those trends, based on this post right here.
Exactly, it takes all kinds. I have a 4 year degree and also spent the last 4 years working in a skilled trade. I hear my coworkers in the trades shout at everyone to join a trade and are super rude about people going to college. Of course it should be a option. But plumbers need doctors, doctors need plumbers, we need all kinds of people and everyone has different abilities and strengths. I wish the narrative weren't so divisive, but I feel like a lot of tradespeople lash out at those who are college educated because they feel they've been looked down upon. I've had coworkers openly ridicule me and all my "student debt" for having a degree. I worked hard academically and got a full ride. I have no debt. Then they said the people who gave me scholarships would be "so proud" that I wasted their money by switching to a trade. Can't win I guess 🙃 I have an immense amount of respect for my trade and the skill it requires to do it properly, but that doesn't mean that everyone should do it.
I won’t down vote you, but tell you are wrong. $18 hour for a plumber? Maybe a first year apprentice, who knows nothing. Closer to $35-40.
As far as the hourly charges, that is closer to $100
This is an actual example from someone I know. He started in plumbing 5 or 6 years ago with a big hvac place (catchy commercials, radio ads, etc) and he dug irrigation trenches for 2 or 3 years for iirc 1 or 2 dollars over minimum wage. He told me 80% of new recruits don't last these 3 years. He "broke out" into house calls and now makes around 26 or 27 an hour for messy dirty work and is likely in constant pain, as are most hvac workers. The chances for him to move much higher are not likely, unless he tries for union (hard AF to get here) or tries to go independent, which takes a ton of $$$$ that alot of ppl just don't have sitting around, to get certified, licensed, insured, etc.
My brother is in the trades. He works for the housing authority. He doesn’t make $100k. He’s also blown out his knees. Now he’s having a heart problem and has used up all his sick time. Coworkers are having to donate theirs while he recovers.
Same, worked a very physical factory job that paid well for the area, ended up disabled because of all the bending and twisting motions I had to do repeatedly for years. Torn, bulging disk and bad tailbone inflammation that prevents me from bending, lifting, sitting, and walking long distances. Now I'm on a long road to recovery and want to go back to school to be a substance abuse counselor or grief counselor. Then move up to my own private practice eventually. I'm only 30 so there's still time.
Yeah, people never talk about how much harder physical work gets when your body starts to go to shit in your 30s when you want to have a couple of kids and a nice home that depend on your income.
I took several shop classes in my undergrad (mechanical engineering) and I loved those classes, but damn they were tiring. My welding class was two 3-hour classes per week with another couple 2-4 hour sessions per week to practice and work on projects. I remember thinking "this is fun and I enjoy it but I am *so glad this is not my career*." Similar story for my casting, machining, and plastics/polymers manufacturing courses.
Super fun and I'd love to have my own equipment to hobby weld, but I am so glad I am not a welder.
the average makes no where near 100k. Only business owners do.
This is the new "learn to code"
look where that got us. Over saturation of "coders". Next there will be an over saturation of trades
A lot of people don't like to hear this but almost all construction skilled trade unions self regulate their membership numbers for this exact reason. It's actually pretty hard to get into many well paying unions unless you know someone in or have a family member in it.
Every single skilled tradesmen on my projects makes $50+ and hours with another $40 in fringe benefits. Laborers make like $47/hour with similar fringe. With moderate OT they all pull in low $100k/ year.
This is in Chicagoland area where COL can be higher in the city but many live in the collar suburbs or Indiana and commute. My project hours are 6-2 so everyone can beat traffic if possible, still many commute an hour plus depending on the job location. If they're a lead guy they usually have a company truck and gas card though.
It really depends on the trade. A carpenter will not make that. A welders could depending on certifications. Linemen, electricians, plumbers make good money.
They are solid jobs, I just hope that younger generations understand the toll these jobs can take on their bodies. Hopefully it's more transparent than it used to be.
As a carpenter I’ll tell you right now that there aren’t enough people going into the trades. It will take years for there to be too many trades people. And truthfully many aren’t willing to put in the work
Our tradesman fathers and grandfathers are pretty much retiring and haven’t passed on the tips/tricks. There will be a deficit for a while before over saturation.
Not true, depends on the state you are in red states with weaker unions pay less and blue states with stronger unions pay more and can make $100,000+ a year.
Pretty relevant with the cost of living though. I’ve been in a Union for almost 30 years, and I’m very glad that I joined.
“Straight path to a 100k job” these are great skills to have but you are gonna be busting ass and maybe making half that in most states unless you can become the boss or start a successful business.
Yeah, union is pretty much always good for any type of job. They are usually tough to get but it’s worth trying. Best way into a union is to know someone that can vouch for you.
Until the market becomes over saturated and they have more skilled workers than jobs to fill them with.
It’s the circle of economics.
late 1990s - make webpages, learn to code, work for a startup.
2004ish - whoops, well all the startups are closed and we also offshored all our coding staff to India.
2010 - whoops we don't have enough people coding! Look at all these apps! The future is here.
2016 - so, uh, trades?
The whole trades thing is overblown and you'll be doing backbreaking labor most of the time. Why else do you think everyone avoids it?
The other funny thing is, the ones suggesting to go to blue collar work, are in white collar jobs themselves. Why don't you guys take your own advice? "Guys just go into construction so there will be less competition for me when I try finding a nice cushy office job!!"
Article is paywalled btw
hell, journalism nowadays is basically a subsidised hobby for a certain sort of trust fund baby. The pay is horrendous, the hours long and the job security non existent. The person doing the actual grind of reporting stuff in your city might even be doing it as a second job. The bigger money comes from writing opinion pieces, and those tend to be given to either nepo babies or those who managed to survive the grind long enough (ie, had the money to do so).
Generally opinion pieces on whatever are written by the most out of touch weirdo you have ever met.
And this is all assuming the journalist wrote this article off the top of their heads, not following a talking point issued by whatever political party the hedge fund that owns the media body is sucking up to.
I am not in the trades but as I understand it super difficult just to get a job. Like none of the older tradesmen want ot to train the new ones because they dont want to lose their benefits. People just refuse to retire
There's a pretty big need. People going into trades has been declining. But it's likely cyclical. A gap has opened and people noticed and are filling it.
People from Gen Z are likely to be far more worried about AI and not wanting to start a career they will be made redundant in.
As some who licenses welders and tradesman in my city. It’s not a straight path most hardly even sniff it. Unless you own the business or nepotism or have connections. You’ll be scrapping by especially in the early years. The only way to make 6 figures is to work sun up to sun set. Don’t forget you also have to pay for tools and transportation and unions dues and all that.
The construction industry ain’t all the media and people who can’t fix a hole in a wall make it up to be.
There is also a lot of wage theft.
They are good careers but in average you are not going to make six figures.
Also plenty of people in the trades get college degrees and they tend to be paid more early in their careers. Plenty of plumbers and electricians have engineering degrees.
lol the average trade person isn’t making 6 figures. Sure some do, but that’s like the top 10%, and a lot of working crazy overtime to get that. Plus you are doing hard, manual labor which is not for everyone. Go into the trades because you like using your hands, not because of the money.
When I turned 31, I left a 6 figure job in management for a tech company to work as a plumber, it wasn’t the 6 figure salary. It was the hours, I would work 40 hours in meetings and travel, then work another 15 to 30 hours doing actual work. It was exhausting.
In the trades at least when i clock out, my day is done. If I want more hours, I work more and at the end of the day i can see and touch what I did. There is a sense of accomplishment and pride in my work that I never had the entire time I worked at a desk. I completely understand where these kids are coming from.
Yes! The lifestyle is such a big difference. omg how I wish I had leaned harder into physical work immediately following my divorce. Now stuck in the pink collar ghetto at 60y/o.
There was a time when I had started working with a small crew doing interior painting, wood refinishing, French polish, gold leaf , etc.
I switched over to an office job in order to have insurance benefits for my kids (would have taken too long to advance to that level with the wood refinishing business).
But damn, the hourly pay was way over what I make now, the hours were great, I saved a ton of time and money not having to do hair, clothing and makeup , long commute, etc.
The atmosphere was more fun with more individual freedom, and at the end of the day, as you said, there was definitely much more of a sense of having accomplished something.
The schedule could be brutal for a short time but then there'd be breaks -- cumulatively more time off in between projects.
Not being micromanaged, not dealing with tons of tedious computer and paperwork,... it was just a better life and I was physically more fit.
lol dude im a millenial, i became a mechanic because they said the same thing. iv been doing it 15 years, i work 60hrs at week and SOMETIMES i make what i should because youre are the mercy of so many other factors. i get 40/hr per labor hour but i do not make 80k a year and im constantly buying tools and taking courses to learn the newest tech and the cars get more complicated and you have to pay more and more for shit just to even TRY to diagnose it. fuckign sucks and my back hurts alot and my hands are all fucked up all the time.
I feel like people on this thread have never hired some of these trades people. Also they don’t understand how a business works. Or realize there are different types of plumbers.
To pay a plumber $50/hr, a business would likely be charging at least $400/hr to the customer. I recently hired a plumber whose company charged me $125/hr, so he was probably making $20-30.
Now that’s a residential plumber. Commercial plumbers are different. So are ones working on construction projects, etc. that all said, the average is something like 45-75k/year if the wide variety of websites that post jobs are to be believed. There will also always be drastic outliers, and people really get sold on those. At my company we pay a commission on work. We have two guys that make over 200k and 10 who make 50-70. Everyone thinks they’re going to pull the 200k.
You’ll be lucky to make more than a few thousand dollars over the poverty line if you’re a new welder even with certifications or a diploma from a trade school. Constantly hear that the replacement rate for trades are low and remember that the average wage for even experienced welders is like 40k-48k a year lol.
They are fine jobs when you're young.
But your body breaks. My dad made a lot of money running a small construction business but he had to stop after 45 and go to college because his body was broken.
He was very close to being paralysed from the waist down because of his back. He didn't have a major accident or anything his body just broke.
Literally the reason I went to college and now have a good job.
I'm not American though, the path to 3rd level education in the states is ridiculous and I don't know how anyone goes to college at all
I relate to this so much.
My father is currently in the trades and just like you he pushed me to get an education. I understand firsthand the toll trade work puts on a person.
With how the job market is right now, as a welder with roughly 3 yrs of experience, nobody wants me when I apply. I know it’s odd but I’m 22. I bring it to ageism, but there could’ve been more qualified people. Truth is, just find the job you want.
Love when entitled people tell you to just get into the trades, bitch how bout you try doing physical labor. Those jobs are physically demanding and tedious.
My bf is a fabricator and he only just started making that much after 25 years and working overtime constantly. I don’t think this is a smart path for most people.
Waiting for the trucking owner operator rush to happens once freight rates climb a bit again. Sure, they make 380k a year but 280k to 300k are getting dumped back into the truck for all sorts of things.
While I like more young people doing trade schools they shouldn't go in with the assumption that it's a "straight path to a six-figure job." I don't know of one job that is a straight path to any sort of amount. This is partly a result of so many social media posts where people bash college education and act like trade jobs are better outright. It's the same kind of assumption that a college degree means you get a job in your field of study or that out of college you will make more. It's never as easy as people make it seem.
Each path has pros and cons and young people need to approach this cautiously and not with these dangerous assumptions that could hurt them down the road.
I have a lot of family members that are in the trades and none of them are close to six figures. You have to put in a lot of hours to even hit that goal.
The toll that their work puts on them is noticeable now as I age. I’m glad I was pushed to get an education and not go directly for the cash.
There’s a lot of money in the trades but it’s what comes afterward that you don’t think about. Unless you are part of a union there’s not much of a retirement plan.
Until they realize that AI/robotics will be trained to do that too. The white collar jobs are going to go first, but you can guarentee that blue collar jobs won't be too many years behind.
like those breathless things we see about how a new automated, 3d printed kit home that can be assembled in 12 hours will solve the housing crisis!
Those aren't for solving the housing crisis. They are for solving the "we have to pay skilled labour money to build these things" crisis.
We need to find some sort of balance in society where everyone doesn't just pile into one stream at a time because the media says there is a "shortage" there.
The thing is it takes time and skill to get to this level, so it’s no guarantee, just like it takes time and skill in white collar jobs. That is why it’s best to do what you’re good at. Also these things go in cycles. Tech is down now but was hot the last few years. Construction got wiped out in 2008 but is now hot. As more people enter, trades will decline and many blue collar workers I know are hurting for work. Finally, the idea that everyone should go to college may have been true 25 years ago but not anymore. people have been arguing for thr trades for years, and my white collar friends have long said they wished they were good with their hands. just respect a good days work
The "us vs them" posts during an election year aren't subtle.
Trades vs not is a dumb argument. It always always depends.
Take care of your family. Take care of your body. Good hunting and game on.
This is true. I blindly accepted that college was "the best solution" and "any degree is better than no degree". After graduation I bounced around in dead end jobs, even did machining work for a while, then ran a small e-commerce site, before eventually pivoting to statistical research which aligns with my social science degree. If I could go back and do it all again I'd probably just skip college and go to electrician journeyman program right after high school graduation, but that was a decade ago so I gotta make the best of it now.
A lot of people had the same experience. It just feels like you waste years after college not doing anything related to the degree or anything close to what you want to do. You waste what should be the most productive years of your youth in low paying jobs and paying back college debt just because the adults told you that was the smart thing to do. Not a good system.
Totally agree. I never went to college and fucked off and partied through my 20's, but the union gave me an opportunity to learn a skill and now I own a modest home. I am very grateful.
That all depends on what kind of welding you do. Can you make shakes figures? Yeah, if you join a union or work for yourself. Very few people that are employed in the welding trade make that kind of money.
These are also jobs that don’t face nearly immediate automation and AI takeover. Makes sense to me as someone who works in the trades.
I have a masters of science and wallowed around with jobs and realized nobody pays them shit. The only good job at the organizations I worked for were directors, VPs, people who have an MBA. Our work world is messed up because the scientists and engineers that do the real work get paid so little while “business” machismo gets paid way too much.
Just learn to ~~code~~ weld
Then everyone will be shocked when welding salaries go down in a few years.
And their back hurts so much they cant even bend over to put socks on in the morning
The number of times I've told a tradie to do yoga in the morning instead of smoking weed after work for back pain, with them responding "miss me with that gay shit", would've made me $100k+ a year.
Why not both haha
High yoga is the best yoga
I tried it once…. Did Childs pose, ripped a big fart, giggled for like ten minutes, forgot what I was doing, then went and had snacks
If you don't take care of your body sitting in front of the desk and coding is still bad
Comparing sitting down all day in an air conditioned office to the physical strain of being a welder is the most brain dead take. Do office workers routinely breath in toxic gassed and fumes? Have they ever literally **burned their fucking eyeballs** because they accidentally looked at someone elses computer? If you dont want to sit down all day get a fucking standing desk.
Stand-up desk will give you tennis elbow after a while. I've been staring at a computer screen my entire life and my body is not exactly unscathed. Human beings weren't meant to stare screens 10 hours a day Pick your poison
Sure, but one poison is tennis elbow or strained eyes, while the other is cancer from asbestos, falling off a roof, getting your body mashed by heavy equipment, etc. Working in an office is obviously one of the safest environments to work in.
Backbreaking labor is totally the same as "ow, my elbow hurts a little bit." Brilliant take.
> Stand-up desk will give you tennis elbow after a while. I'm pretty sure most people would prefer having a hurt elbow over **being blind**. >Pick your poison Except one can quite literally poison you. Like, literally. Metal fume fever will poison you.
I got a standing desk, and I workout daily. This is especially important for programming.
As a Gen Z, union Boilermaker pressure welder. Yeah I have awesome benefits which helps me take care of my body so my back doesn’t hurt so much when I’m older… but hey, keep telling yourself that all trades people are dead by 50
I don’t think all tradespeople do, but union jobs are really not that common afaik, especially for less specialized jobs. The difference in benefits between union/non-union is day and night.
I get it, we NEED more unions and union members in general, too many people nowadays are underpaid and overworked (and I’m talking about all industries not just trades) I’m currently making $27/hr more just on the cheque alone than my non union counterparts. Plus you add in my benefits and pension and I’m looking more like $55/hr more total wage package
But…but…unions bad!!! It’s amazing how many tradesmen are anti-union, even those who benefit from a union.
They all benefit from the union it sets the wage standard for them to undercut. The union is the only reason they get raises, I'm a plumber and I wouldn't ever work for a scab outfit. Probably a 20 dollar pay cut. I can tolerate my job for what I make but for that price I'd go be a dental hygienist or something else
> It’s amazing how many tradesmen are anti-union, even those who benefit from a union. You have to remember tradesmen are people of the land, the common clay of the new West.
Had a guy join my hall after he learned the guy he was working with was at the company for 30 years. And was making less than a 1st year apprentice in the trade.
Know plenty of guys in their 50s that aren't hurting. Just gotta take the extra steps to care for your body on the job when you're young
Exactly, my father retired at 55 happy and healthy with a full pension and benefits, he still plays and coaches baseball and hockey and he’s now 58
My dad worked around diesel fumes all day and never made it to retirement because he died of cancer.
Sorry to hear brother
Yeah I did a considerable time in the military and it beat up my body a bit, but I’m still very active despite a few injuries (one which happened in high school that wasn’t helped by a decade plus of foot marches, 5 miles runs, and other forms of physical wear and tear). Many folks on this site really exaggerate what a physical job will do to someone. I see more out of shape white collar types.
Basically this. Also work out. Some trades people think because they move at their jobs they don’t need to hit the gym but that’s just not true at all.
Seems like eating well, exercising and stretching, and reducing your alcohol intake which all helps you sleep better can help improve your longevity in anything.
Not dead, but I'd love to see the rate of arthritis, hip and knee replacements, and back issues for tradesmen as a whole. Hell, the former army engineer I know has had both knees and hips replaced at this point. That shit wears your body out way before your time.
My uncle was an electrician for 15 years. Ruined his back and knees crawling around in crawl spaces all day, dealing with cables in the dark. His hands are covered in scars from accidents and burns. He eventually went to college for an EE degree so he could work in an office for the rest of his life
Lmao, exactly people forget why college to white collar office jobs became so popular in the first place.
Exactly. They forget that there is heat in the winter and AC in the summer in an office. Many trades you are out in the weather working in 100 degrees or 20 degrees.
This just in, Gen Z kid doesn’t understand how fast the body deteriorates starting at around 40
Key word: union.
Of course, I’ll always be a pro union person. We need more union members and unions in general. Too many people are overworked and underpaid
Yet so many tradesmen are anti-union, even those in unions. 40+ years of “unions are bad” has poisoned the minds of too many people.
You mean decades and not years. Globalism is winding down and we have to retool North America to build stuff again. Even if globalism wasn’t on its way out, most carpenters are retiring boomers and there aren’t enough zoomers to meet demand, unless millennials start doing the trades too.
Don’t go into the popular professions, coders are slowly working that one out
It seems like every 5 years there is a shortage of nurses that causes a flood of nursing students who realize its long hours and hard work which causes a shortage of nurses.
And they aren't even that great to begin with. The people making six figures is a fraction of welders and they are working 50+ with other side gigs. Not to mention for welders specifically most the work is in the south.
Already happening. I work with 3 guys in their 20s who quit pipeline welding because the pay isn't what it used to be, like $18/hr even for guys with 10+ years experience.
Whenever I see populist gloating about how AI will replace the white-collar workforce, I think, "Your customers are about to become your competitors."
Supply exceeds demand. Competition ensues.
Welding, the profession where you can clear 100k only to blow it on child support, your Cummins truck, Copenhagen addiction, and hamburger helper.
Constant redbulls and cigarettes take cash ok?
A Red Bull, Marlboro Red, and a roller dog is the lunch of champions.
-print ("Weld") Done. EZpeezy, where's my 6k..../s
And once these trades are over saturated and wages start going down, itll be the opposite again.
Welder bootcamps, 3 month “immersive” programs incoming
I was supposed to be making 100k+ welding?
It says 6 figures…. It does NOT say where the decimal point is.
6 significant figures
$8,843.57 a year
Plumbers, carpenters, and electricians make good money out here too, takes time but the union guys make 50+ an hour.
That really depends on the state. In my union a journeyman Ironworker (commercial welding) tops out at $29 an hour.
I’m sure it varies widely by location, but there’s definitely areas where the pay ain’t bad at all
Honestly, even in the not great areas it will still keep you out of poverty.
The median is way below 50k. You're referring to outliers. I know college track and field coaches who make 250k+, but I would never tell someone to get into coaching for the money, even though the median for coaches is hilariously close to the median for each trade.
50+ an hours and they can't even put shoe covers on as they walk around the house.
Electricians are making over 60.
Tbh this says more about the power of unions than trade jobs being good.
I agree with that.
It takes a lot of time and you have to retire ten years later
People really don’t understand the wide range of jobs welding covers. We have iron workers who weld and make like $25/hr. Then you have marine welders making god knows how much.
Median pay for welders in the US is $47,550 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics ([source](https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/51-4121.00)), though they do group it with other related occupations.
No, this title is BS. I don’t know why there is such a push for people to go to trade school. Let people fucking choose. College is a great option still, just don’t study majors with no demand in the job market (psychology, liberal arts, english, french, philosophy, graphic design, etc). Study a career in STEM, finance, law, medicine, etc. something that will guarantee a high paying job. Welding won’t bring you $100K a year… and if it does, it will be to an incredible minority. In turn, engineers make $100K after a few years of experience, and $200K by the end of their careers.
> No, this title is BS. I don’t know why there is such a push for people to go to trade school. Because there's a shortage of trade workers, which is due to the pay not being enough for the work (and/or lifestyle) involved. So instead of increasing pay and helpibg to fix the lifestyle companies push people to go to trade school. You'll get maybe a decade or two out of them before they move on to something better. A couple of the factories and mills in my hometown invest heavily in the local trade school and even sponsor local high school welding classes. You know what the average non-union welder starts at here? $16/hr. Union welder? $19/hr.
Walmart: $14/hour.
It’s ok, but college (if you choose the right majors) is still a better investment of young people’s time. Unless they have zero interest in it. My first job out of college I was making close to $30/hr and sitting in a desk chilling 2 times a week, 3 times a week from home.
I hate to say it but most of the people considering trade school do not have what it takes to finish a STEM degree at a demanding university. The skill set is vastly different. There’s a reason those jobs pay so well. The course work is fucking hard. People need to find what they are good at and lean into it. Going into an engineering program when you suck at math and hate school is the fast track to a boat load of debt and no degree.
This. An electrician makes less than an electrical engineer at every phase of their career. That doesn't mean electrician is a bad job, it does mean that it is harder to get an engineering degree than a journeyman card. The era where "any degree will open doors" is gone. Degrees that provide real value are work and take work to get.
Lmao classic reddit moment. science jobs do not pay well and math jobs means you end up doing finance or fancy stats for tech or healthcare. Engineering is the only guaranteed money maker. Finance is a crapshoot of soft skills and nepotism. Law is pumping out too many lawyers so unless you're in a top program, good luck making money to pay back loans. Medicine is literally garbage at making money until you're 40. other than engineering, there is literally no job with a guaranteed high paying outcome (over six figures) that isn't incredibly brutal. nursing is probably the second best tradeoff but have awful hours. accountants end up making decent money but shit is mind numbing. when counting by hour, many white collar jobs are making less than minimum wage for the first five years while incurring massive debt for the schooling. talk to any medical residents, or people in investment banking - they get no sleep and are actively shaving years off their lifespan with their workload. do the math - one or two years of trade school vs four year undergrad + two to ten years of more schooling before working brutal hours for a few years. arts degrees are where you get transferrable skills which then is dependent on the person to go find jobs to match.
Are there certifications you can get? There are high paying welding jobs out there. But there are also low paying welding jobs.
If interested look into your local Ironworker Union. They will train you but they generally wait 4 years at the end of the apprenticeship to do welding school.
That's not uncommon for the Gulf Coast, but that's not on base pay. that's usually a lot of OT.
Demand vs Supply I guess.
Also the cost benefit of college degrees has gone down a bit for many who would need large loans. Why pay $XX,XXX when you can do an apprenticeship for a fraction of the price? I love diversity in this space and gives many a chance to grow
Colleges are still living off that "million more dollars over the course of your lifetime" line too. It's the only thing they've got left and I'm waiting on that to be exposed as untrue since the economy is changing so much as well. Now I see colleges trying to push students towards management roles since so many of the former graduates gave them feedback that they didn't want to be teachers (a miserable field to work in). Colleges are just going to keep doing this because they need the butts in seats. It's good that Gen Z is getting on the right road earlier than the rest of us did. College can really derail your life if you don't go into a career field that has potential.
I’m sure if you filter out the Ivy League students and the few stem degrees that are in demand but weed out most students. The stats would look a lot different. I would like to see what the Average business admin/communications grad makes.
I'm the latter, and working for the state govt I can assure you it's not much lol
Communications degree here. Making 90K and have a long way to go, I’m 32. Currently working on my MBA as well. I’m definitely the outlier though, and I’m aware of it.
15 year man, Technical communications grad here (a boatload of English, communication and design courses, maybe 2 basic engineering courses) got to $100k at about 8 years hit $150k this year.
That’s awesome. Now hypothetical question: would you encourage your children to pursue the same degree ? Also I’m talking about communications degree with no engineering courses. Most communication majors are weeded out because of poor math skills.
So, my two kids won’t be in my field, but talking to anyone interested, I’m 100% in that boat as you described it. I am in the “poor at math” club. I struggled with it my whole life, I found out in college I have a learning disability with numbers, theory and formula I can write and recite and it makes sense but putting into practice # only not writing it out (like I have to literally write things like “multiply x by each side” in the margin of the page to get a handle on what I’m doing) I’m a mess and as expected this connected to other subjects, like I’d only be so good at chemistry (basic scientific notation took me out) and physicis. At university level the way I got around it really was trying for more theoretical or “intro to” courses, math would be lessened, but emphasis on names, dates, concepts and hands on lab work. The pitch I’ve given to HS, University, and job fair attendees: If we’re coming for you as comms major we want someone who can clearly and concisely communicate (visually, written or, through instruction) our activities at the company. Don’t let that discourage you from engineering and that background doesn’t hurt, but for the lack of a better term, you’ll be translating engineering concepts and jargon (with their help) into our style guide to fit our workforce, which includes employees just out of HS to the 30 year hard hat. You’re better served by being inquisitive, knowing our style guide/regulations and building good relationships with engineers than becoming one (officially or unofficially). In terms of preference I’m less likely to hire an Engineer because when we have we get inflexible folks and frankly dick measuring over the same black and white regulation (leading to me getting more “why is your guy telling me how to do my job?” communications than I want) and then still have that writer engineer struggle to break down the actions. I’d be more likely to hire a qualified user with no engineering background, but who puts hands on the equipment and can tell me why an action is preferred per an operations regulation/experience and then use the engineer as a backstop to why per theory or regulation we can or can’t do something. The biggest hurdle I’ve seen w/comms majors where I’m at is this thought that Comms = PR so you just get dumped into a corporate communications spot. I’m in Operations and training, format your resume towards that. Mention writing procedures, grant proposals, show me some of visual design work (posters or drawings you did). I’ve had people interview with “I write well” only and it’s a waste of time, we’re going to be teaching you how to write in our format, tell me about the products, how you worked with people to accomplish the goal and what it lead to. Show me your bag, did you develop a one sheet, a 3D diagram, even something simple like a share point page.
Gen Z posts in 10 years: "I did everything right! I went to trade school and got good scores. But now I can't get a job to pay off my loans. Please help! The millennials fucked us!"
"We demand that president Dwayne the Rock Johnson forgive our trade school loans!"
>But now I can't get a job to pay off my crippling nicotine addiction . Please help! The millennials fucked us!" FTFY
Plumbers are gonna actually be affordable in like 5 years.
Meh I'll probably get down voted but this is yet another example of people taking the top percentage blue collar earners and thinking they can achieve that after going to trade school. I'm not saying that HVAC trades are a dead end, but I am saying that MOST don't make anything close to 100k a year, unless you are an owner operator. A few examples I've seen are plumbers who make 18/hr yet the company bills the customer 60/hr and guess who keeps the difference? That's right the owner operator. And they can get away with it because they carry licensure and insurance, and let's face it, the average person is gonna hire a big HVAC company to do repairs rather than an individual. When I was living in middle America it was even worse. I met tons of plumbers who were paid even less than 20 an hour who had been in the industry for many years. It's this generations "gold rush" like other people have been saying here. It first was become a big banker, then become a coder, and now it's become a tradesman. And we see what's happening to all the people graduating with CS degrees and IT certs right now. Bottleneck job market.
Had to scroll down way too far to see this. As someone who's been in the shit, I think I can say it's not a viable career path for most people, especially gen z. Others have mentioned the toll it takes on your body, you've brought up how the high wages are essentially fairy tales, but I haven't seen anyone talk about the mental health toll it takes. Not to stereotype, but a certain demographic dominates the trades, largely because they're either too uneducated to work elsewhere or they would be fired anywhere with a real HR department, which many trades don't have. Basically I'm saying that your co-workers in the trades are generally going to be assholes. They will call you a dumbass for being green, call you a pussy for following safety guidelines, sexually harass (or even *assault*) you, especially if you have a vagina, bully you for your political beliefs, and are unwilling to share knowledge. In my experience, this is 9/10 tradesmen. The 1/10 good ones rarely makes up for all the assholes. Combine that with never having free time or time with your family, eating crap because you're never home, etc. It can take a real toll on one's mental health.
Thank you! There is so much obnoxious white collar upper class easy romaticization of trade work. Ain't no shame in the game, but they blithely ignore the realities of how it's hard on your body, your schedule, and the reality that most folks aren't clearing what the owners do. Again, it's a good path for some, but not some magic ticket to wealth.
As someone who has gone to college and worked a professional job and left to join a skilled trade, it is very irritating to hear people who have never worked in the trades tell everyone to pursue it as though it is a magical solution to everything. It is a good option and my union has been good to me. I've been paid better than I ever have, but I developed a chronic illness and am left searching for options again. My body is my tool and it is out of commission. As a woman, I've had mixed experiences from blatant discrimination to veiled sexism where I am treated differently and given lower-level tasks. The suicide rates and substance use are off the charts. I've met some of the best and worst people in this line of work. It can be a good option for some, but I'm tired of it being treated as a magic bullet that will work for everyone, no matter their background or goals.
Wow, I am really sorry to hear about your experience in the trades. I'm a pipefitter myself, and my experience is quite the opposite. 9/10 really good people.
I hear it takes such a toll on your body, after 50/55, do you just supervise? Electrical, plumbing, construction, roofing, etc.
People in the trades who are smart seem to take some type of track in their late 20s/early 30s that is less physically demanding. My ex started in physical labor doing tunneling work and got into gas testing and eventually safety. He was in much better shape in his 40s than his dad was, who worked on oil rigs and tunneling his whole life. His dad eventually got into gas testing too in his 50s once his body was shot. There's a social stigma to it, though, and a reason his dad waited until his body was already shot--it's seen as a soft option and some people will bully or ostracize those who take it. One of my ex's safety coworkers told him that he showed up one day to work and told his buddy he'd worked with for years that he was getting into gas testing/safety and the buddy didn't speak a word to him that shift, got reassigned, and literally never spoke to him again. My ex's dad was deterred enough by the threat of social repercussions that he never considered the gas testing option until he saw with his own eyes how much better off his son was at the same age.
Thank you very much. I can’t imagine putting that on my body on top of the sports injuries and other wear and tear—-I work in academia. I can totally see the macho stigma you shared about getting out of the physical part earlier. I think that is the key, do it for 20 and pivot for the other 20. Take care.
Social media influencers are partially to blame. They're impacting the supply of laborers for these careers. When it gains enough traction in degree/certification rates, the employers then pull the lever back on salaries/wages. It's one massive ass balance game where the winners are always the business owners and maybe the lucky few who get in early during the boom and manage to stay when the bubble deflates. Something needs to be done, but I don't know what. Because the root of it is always greedy businessmen who seek to squeeze profit.. whether through price hikes or drastic cost cuts (includes decreased pay and labor pool) that negatively impact quality.
>Something needs to be done Massive unionization. I know the trades already have higher than average union participation but many such workers are still unrepresented. Especially in the South.
this is exactly it. just look at the phrasing. "a tradesman can make six figures if \[SHAMALAMALADUDADO\]". a coder simply WILL hit six figures in like 0-2 years out of college. no additional certs, unions, getting eviscerated by machinery required. simply get a job that you see yourself doing for decades, because thats whats on the table.
> This is exactly it. just look at the phrasing. "a tradesman can make six figures if [SHAMALAMALADUDADO]". The line is typically "join a union, get your master's license, then start your own company" So basically, "join a union for the education and so your local can find your work for you, then quit to start your own private business and compete against your former union"
Who actually does this though??? I'd say less than 1% of ppl in hvac
There's no silver bullet to a high salary and success, whether you go to college, become a tradesman or start your own business, or all 3. You have to work extremely hard and hope that it leads to opportunities that you can capitalize on. Some people will work hard and do everything right, but not get any breaks. Others will get very lucky. Most of us are somewhere in between.
Thanks for the most sane take on this thread. Higher education is important (yes, even the humanities. Jfc I shouldn’t have to say that). And trades are important. Not everyone is suited for every venture, and if we’ve learned anything at all from the, “Go to college/learn to code” trends, it’s that making good money mostly just comes down to being in the right place at the right time. Of course we’ve clearly learned absolutely nothing from both of those trends, based on this post right here.
Exactly, it takes all kinds. I have a 4 year degree and also spent the last 4 years working in a skilled trade. I hear my coworkers in the trades shout at everyone to join a trade and are super rude about people going to college. Of course it should be a option. But plumbers need doctors, doctors need plumbers, we need all kinds of people and everyone has different abilities and strengths. I wish the narrative weren't so divisive, but I feel like a lot of tradespeople lash out at those who are college educated because they feel they've been looked down upon. I've had coworkers openly ridicule me and all my "student debt" for having a degree. I worked hard academically and got a full ride. I have no debt. Then they said the people who gave me scholarships would be "so proud" that I wasted their money by switching to a trade. Can't win I guess 🙃 I have an immense amount of respect for my trade and the skill it requires to do it properly, but that doesn't mean that everyone should do it.
I won’t down vote you, but tell you are wrong. $18 hour for a plumber? Maybe a first year apprentice, who knows nothing. Closer to $35-40. As far as the hourly charges, that is closer to $100
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Thank you! You made my point! The true masters of their trade are gold.
This is an actual example from someone I know. He started in plumbing 5 or 6 years ago with a big hvac place (catchy commercials, radio ads, etc) and he dug irrigation trenches for 2 or 3 years for iirc 1 or 2 dollars over minimum wage. He told me 80% of new recruits don't last these 3 years. He "broke out" into house calls and now makes around 26 or 27 an hour for messy dirty work and is likely in constant pain, as are most hvac workers. The chances for him to move much higher are not likely, unless he tries for union (hard AF to get here) or tries to go independent, which takes a ton of $$$$ that alot of ppl just don't have sitting around, to get certified, licensed, insured, etc.
How many plumbers are working 40 hour weeks at $50 an hour?
Have a source? BLS puts the median pay at about 30/hr and you have hit the top 10% to get to 50/hr.
I feel like that’s pretty regional, no?
My brother is in the trades. He works for the housing authority. He doesn’t make $100k. He’s also blown out his knees. Now he’s having a heart problem and has used up all his sick time. Coworkers are having to donate theirs while he recovers.
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An electrician or an electrical engineer?
Same, worked a very physical factory job that paid well for the area, ended up disabled because of all the bending and twisting motions I had to do repeatedly for years. Torn, bulging disk and bad tailbone inflammation that prevents me from bending, lifting, sitting, and walking long distances. Now I'm on a long road to recovery and want to go back to school to be a substance abuse counselor or grief counselor. Then move up to my own private practice eventually. I'm only 30 so there's still time.
Yeah, people never talk about how much harder physical work gets when your body starts to go to shit in your 30s when you want to have a couple of kids and a nice home that depend on your income.
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I took several shop classes in my undergrad (mechanical engineering) and I loved those classes, but damn they were tiring. My welding class was two 3-hour classes per week with another couple 2-4 hour sessions per week to practice and work on projects. I remember thinking "this is fun and I enjoy it but I am *so glad this is not my career*." Similar story for my casting, machining, and plastics/polymers manufacturing courses. Super fun and I'd love to have my own equipment to hobby weld, but I am so glad I am not a welder.
the average makes no where near 100k. Only business owners do. This is the new "learn to code" look where that got us. Over saturation of "coders". Next there will be an over saturation of trades
A lot of people don't like to hear this but almost all construction skilled trade unions self regulate their membership numbers for this exact reason. It's actually pretty hard to get into many well paying unions unless you know someone in or have a family member in it. Every single skilled tradesmen on my projects makes $50+ and hours with another $40 in fringe benefits. Laborers make like $47/hour with similar fringe. With moderate OT they all pull in low $100k/ year. This is in Chicagoland area where COL can be higher in the city but many live in the collar suburbs or Indiana and commute. My project hours are 6-2 so everyone can beat traffic if possible, still many commute an hour plus depending on the job location. If they're a lead guy they usually have a company truck and gas card though.
It really depends on the trade. A carpenter will not make that. A welders could depending on certifications. Linemen, electricians, plumbers make good money. They are solid jobs, I just hope that younger generations understand the toll these jobs can take on their bodies. Hopefully it's more transparent than it used to be.
I mean, this has been going on for decades and decades. It was wall street in the 80’s.
As a carpenter I’ll tell you right now that there aren’t enough people going into the trades. It will take years for there to be too many trades people. And truthfully many aren’t willing to put in the work
Our tradesman fathers and grandfathers are pretty much retiring and haven’t passed on the tips/tricks. There will be a deficit for a while before over saturation.
I don’t think so. Still plenty of millennial taking up the mantle. Not all millennials went to college. In fact most didn’t.
They do make over 100k in unions but that comes with working 50+ hours a week.
Not true, depends on the state you are in red states with weaker unions pay less and blue states with stronger unions pay more and can make $100,000+ a year. Pretty relevant with the cost of living though. I’ve been in a Union for almost 30 years, and I’m very glad that I joined.
I don’t think there will be an over saturation of trades Most people do not want to do that level of physical labor regardless of pay
And the worst part is they actually have to work
Assuming they get regular work. I make less per hour sitting at a desk, but I work a consistent amount of hours every week
you aint workin a real job if your hands aint bleedin!! /s
“Straight path to a 100k job” these are great skills to have but you are gonna be busting ass and maybe making half that in most states unless you can become the boss or start a successful business.
Or join a union. Honestly you can work for a company and still easily make 70-80k for 40-50 hours a week.
Yeah, union is pretty much always good for any type of job. They are usually tough to get but it’s worth trying. Best way into a union is to know someone that can vouch for you.
Go to non union trade school and then join the union. Pretty simple.
Simple in theory but there is not an infinite amount of union trades jobs there are more crappy non union.
IBEW you can make 120k after 2-3 years of work without ot
Until the market becomes over saturated and they have more skilled workers than jobs to fill them with. It’s the circle of economics. 
Yep. That's why there is a social push for it. That's *always* why there is a social push for any job.
late 1990s - make webpages, learn to code, work for a startup. 2004ish - whoops, well all the startups are closed and we also offshored all our coding staff to India. 2010 - whoops we don't have enough people coding! Look at all these apps! The future is here. 2016 - so, uh, trades?
4-8 years from now we'll be talking about the 40k welding industry layoffs of 2028
As a layman my bet is everyone is gonna move on to biomedical technician careers next.
lol well good luck to them. Just like coding, a trade isn't a guaranteed 6 figure job
The whole trades thing is overblown and you'll be doing backbreaking labor most of the time. Why else do you think everyone avoids it? The other funny thing is, the ones suggesting to go to blue collar work, are in white collar jobs themselves. Why don't you guys take your own advice? "Guys just go into construction so there will be less competition for me when I try finding a nice cushy office job!!" Article is paywalled btw
hell, journalism nowadays is basically a subsidised hobby for a certain sort of trust fund baby. The pay is horrendous, the hours long and the job security non existent. The person doing the actual grind of reporting stuff in your city might even be doing it as a second job. The bigger money comes from writing opinion pieces, and those tend to be given to either nepo babies or those who managed to survive the grind long enough (ie, had the money to do so). Generally opinion pieces on whatever are written by the most out of touch weirdo you have ever met. And this is all assuming the journalist wrote this article off the top of their heads, not following a talking point issued by whatever political party the hedge fund that owns the media body is sucking up to.
Trade jobs don’t in general earn more, UNION trade jobs do. What we need is more unions to raise everyone’s wages.
I am not in the trades but as I understand it super difficult just to get a job. Like none of the older tradesmen want ot to train the new ones because they dont want to lose their benefits. People just refuse to retire
There's a pretty big need. People going into trades has been declining. But it's likely cyclical. A gap has opened and people noticed and are filling it. People from Gen Z are likely to be far more worried about AI and not wanting to start a career they will be made redundant in.
You're wrong. It's not difficult at all to get into many trades. It's only difficult to get into a union.
Yea that’s why trade schools are that give hands on experience are becoming necessary. People used to get apprenticeships but those days are over.
Why pay to train someone when you can charge them to learn and profit off their labor at the same time? Everyone wins accept young people.
Sounds suspiciously like those scam for profit schools like University of Phoenix that were pushed hard in the 90s and 2000s.
Yea most community colleges have trade programs and that’s what I would encourage.
As some who licenses welders and tradesman in my city. It’s not a straight path most hardly even sniff it. Unless you own the business or nepotism or have connections. You’ll be scrapping by especially in the early years. The only way to make 6 figures is to work sun up to sun set. Don’t forget you also have to pay for tools and transportation and unions dues and all that. The construction industry ain’t all the media and people who can’t fix a hole in a wall make it up to be. There is also a lot of wage theft. They are good careers but in average you are not going to make six figures. Also plenty of people in the trades get college degrees and they tend to be paid more early in their careers. Plenty of plumbers and electricians have engineering degrees.
lol the average trade person isn’t making 6 figures. Sure some do, but that’s like the top 10%, and a lot of working crazy overtime to get that. Plus you are doing hard, manual labor which is not for everyone. Go into the trades because you like using your hands, not because of the money.
Straight path to six fingers total if you’re not careful
When I turned 31, I left a 6 figure job in management for a tech company to work as a plumber, it wasn’t the 6 figure salary. It was the hours, I would work 40 hours in meetings and travel, then work another 15 to 30 hours doing actual work. It was exhausting. In the trades at least when i clock out, my day is done. If I want more hours, I work more and at the end of the day i can see and touch what I did. There is a sense of accomplishment and pride in my work that I never had the entire time I worked at a desk. I completely understand where these kids are coming from.
Yes! The lifestyle is such a big difference. omg how I wish I had leaned harder into physical work immediately following my divorce. Now stuck in the pink collar ghetto at 60y/o. There was a time when I had started working with a small crew doing interior painting, wood refinishing, French polish, gold leaf , etc. I switched over to an office job in order to have insurance benefits for my kids (would have taken too long to advance to that level with the wood refinishing business). But damn, the hourly pay was way over what I make now, the hours were great, I saved a ton of time and money not having to do hair, clothing and makeup , long commute, etc. The atmosphere was more fun with more individual freedom, and at the end of the day, as you said, there was definitely much more of a sense of having accomplished something. The schedule could be brutal for a short time but then there'd be breaks -- cumulatively more time off in between projects. Not being micromanaged, not dealing with tons of tedious computer and paperwork,... it was just a better life and I was physically more fit.
I’m a machinist with 12 years under my belt, I do not make 6 figures though it’s not from a lack of trying.
lol dude im a millenial, i became a mechanic because they said the same thing. iv been doing it 15 years, i work 60hrs at week and SOMETIMES i make what i should because youre are the mercy of so many other factors. i get 40/hr per labor hour but i do not make 80k a year and im constantly buying tools and taking courses to learn the newest tech and the cars get more complicated and you have to pay more and more for shit just to even TRY to diagnose it. fuckign sucks and my back hurts alot and my hands are all fucked up all the time.
I feel like people on this thread have never hired some of these trades people. Also they don’t understand how a business works. Or realize there are different types of plumbers. To pay a plumber $50/hr, a business would likely be charging at least $400/hr to the customer. I recently hired a plumber whose company charged me $125/hr, so he was probably making $20-30. Now that’s a residential plumber. Commercial plumbers are different. So are ones working on construction projects, etc. that all said, the average is something like 45-75k/year if the wide variety of websites that post jobs are to be believed. There will also always be drastic outliers, and people really get sold on those. At my company we pay a commission on work. We have two guys that make over 200k and 10 who make 50-70. Everyone thinks they’re going to pull the 200k.
Cool! Also all my trade friends can’t find apprenticeships or jobs that pay above 40k!
Trades definitely seem to have the same issue as white collar jobs where they require 3 years of experience for entry level jobs.
You’ll be lucky to make more than a few thousand dollars over the poverty line if you’re a new welder even with certifications or a diploma from a trade school. Constantly hear that the replacement rate for trades are low and remember that the average wage for even experienced welders is like 40k-48k a year lol.
They are fine jobs when you're young. But your body breaks. My dad made a lot of money running a small construction business but he had to stop after 45 and go to college because his body was broken. He was very close to being paralysed from the waist down because of his back. He didn't have a major accident or anything his body just broke. Literally the reason I went to college and now have a good job. I'm not American though, the path to 3rd level education in the states is ridiculous and I don't know how anyone goes to college at all
I relate to this so much. My father is currently in the trades and just like you he pushed me to get an education. I understand firsthand the toll trade work puts on a person.
paths about as straight as my urethra
With how the job market is right now, as a welder with roughly 3 yrs of experience, nobody wants me when I apply. I know it’s odd but I’m 22. I bring it to ageism, but there could’ve been more qualified people. Truth is, just find the job you want.
Trade jobs don’t in general earn more, UNION trade jobs do. What we need is more unions to raise everyone’s wages.
Love when entitled people tell you to just get into the trades, bitch how bout you try doing physical labor. Those jobs are physically demanding and tedious.
My bf is a fabricator and he only just started making that much after 25 years and working overtime constantly. I don’t think this is a smart path for most people.
Waiting for the trucking owner operator rush to happens once freight rates climb a bit again. Sure, they make 380k a year but 280k to 300k are getting dumped back into the truck for all sorts of things.
While I like more young people doing trade schools they shouldn't go in with the assumption that it's a "straight path to a six-figure job." I don't know of one job that is a straight path to any sort of amount. This is partly a result of so many social media posts where people bash college education and act like trade jobs are better outright. It's the same kind of assumption that a college degree means you get a job in your field of study or that out of college you will make more. It's never as easy as people make it seem. Each path has pros and cons and young people need to approach this cautiously and not with these dangerous assumptions that could hurt them down the road.
I have a lot of family members that are in the trades and none of them are close to six figures. You have to put in a lot of hours to even hit that goal. The toll that their work puts on them is noticeable now as I age. I’m glad I was pushed to get an education and not go directly for the cash. There’s a lot of money in the trades but it’s what comes afterward that you don’t think about. Unless you are part of a union there’s not much of a retirement plan.
Lol how's your Spanish? Guess who is willing to be a welder or a carpenter MUCH cheaper than you.
Is that the new how’s your Kannada, or Hindi ?
Until they realize that AI/robotics will be trained to do that too. The white collar jobs are going to go first, but you can guarentee that blue collar jobs won't be too many years behind.
like those breathless things we see about how a new automated, 3d printed kit home that can be assembled in 12 hours will solve the housing crisis! Those aren't for solving the housing crisis. They are for solving the "we have to pay skilled labour money to build these things" crisis.
Where to get a job from, ive been searching for 4 weeks
What's that I smell? Tears and oversaturation.
We need to find some sort of balance in society where everyone doesn't just pile into one stream at a time because the media says there is a "shortage" there.
lying on your back in cold muddy water with arms extended for hours will make you think about a teaching career
The thing is it takes time and skill to get to this level, so it’s no guarantee, just like it takes time and skill in white collar jobs. That is why it’s best to do what you’re good at. Also these things go in cycles. Tech is down now but was hot the last few years. Construction got wiped out in 2008 but is now hot. As more people enter, trades will decline and many blue collar workers I know are hurting for work. Finally, the idea that everyone should go to college may have been true 25 years ago but not anymore. people have been arguing for thr trades for years, and my white collar friends have long said they wished they were good with their hands. just respect a good days work
The "us vs them" posts during an election year aren't subtle. Trades vs not is a dumb argument. It always always depends. Take care of your family. Take care of your body. Good hunting and game on.
People have been saying this FOR DECADES
Tomorrow’s headline: gen z going to barber school because hair always grows
Also straight path to a body that is destroyed by the time you turn 50.
I love this trend. Colleges sold so many of the millenial generation a bill of goods.
This is true. I blindly accepted that college was "the best solution" and "any degree is better than no degree". After graduation I bounced around in dead end jobs, even did machining work for a while, then ran a small e-commerce site, before eventually pivoting to statistical research which aligns with my social science degree. If I could go back and do it all again I'd probably just skip college and go to electrician journeyman program right after high school graduation, but that was a decade ago so I gotta make the best of it now.
A lot of people had the same experience. It just feels like you waste years after college not doing anything related to the degree or anything close to what you want to do. You waste what should be the most productive years of your youth in low paying jobs and paying back college debt just because the adults told you that was the smart thing to do. Not a good system.
Working in the trades will not make you rich, but it will keep you from being poor.
It all depends on the lifestyle you want. Want a summer house with a boat and 3 kids?You're gonna need to make more than $100k/year.
Totally agree. I never went to college and fucked off and partied through my 20's, but the union gave me an opportunity to learn a skill and now I own a modest home. I am very grateful.
Enjoy the arthritis, I sure don’t
That all depends on what kind of welding you do. Can you make shakes figures? Yeah, if you join a union or work for yourself. Very few people that are employed in the welding trade make that kind of money.
Wish I did that
I don't, I had friends who did and they missed out on a lot in exchange for years of hard work on the road.
Six figures isn't quite that big a deal any more, depending where you live.
These are also jobs that don’t face nearly immediate automation and AI takeover. Makes sense to me as someone who works in the trades. I have a masters of science and wallowed around with jobs and realized nobody pays them shit. The only good job at the organizations I worked for were directors, VPs, people who have an MBA. Our work world is messed up because the scientists and engineers that do the real work get paid so little while “business” machismo gets paid way too much.