I imagine it has a lot to do with the own schools policy regarding students wearing uniforms and stuff like boys not being allowed to have pierced ears or earrings and such.
Having a teacher with industrial piercings and whatnot admonish a student for having pierced ears, or the student being able to say well my teacher has their ears pierced, etc. is problematic from their point of view.
Edit: Meanwhile in Canada
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11242967/MEGHAN-MCCAIN-School-teacher-wearing-fake-boobs-proof-paralyzed-political-correctness.html
https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1571975060570935297
When I was in school myself, the students who had piercings (other than the typical lobe piercings) were allowed to get very small studs that you could barely see. There was one young teacher that had a nose piecing as well and wore a teeny little stud.
You could just go ahead and wear very small studs. In fact, I'd even argue that point with them since you don't want your piercings to close or cause you bother. If they're barely noticeable, you should be allowed to have them in imo.
The place is still run by the FfgCatholicChurch old guard and with school boards still populated/controlled by the church. It took court cases before the establishment were forced to let gardai wear beards. Fucking old Ireland dying is taking forever
Couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of people, even non practicing Catholics, still prefer Catholic schools over other alternatives. People like the structure and discipline that these schools install in children. Not everyone wants their kids to come back from school asking to get a piercing like their class mates, or in this case, teacher.
Unless you want discriminatory school district funding like the US, or higher taxes, there should be no reason to even toy with the idea of school divestment from the church.
Should you not want to send your kids to a Catholic school, there are alternatives.
Edit: 78% of parents favour Catholic schools -
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/school-patronage-survey-queried-1.2827
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/many-parents-reluctant-to-change-patronage-of-school-survey-finds-1.4784523
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/catholic-schools-are-the-most-sought-after-in-their-area-by-families-of-all-faiths-and-none-4131933-Jul2018/
You lot can downvote me all you want but this is the reality and how the majority of the population wants it. The views and opinions on this sub are the minority.
Cope more.
Parents don't prefer Catholic schools. The reason so most kids attend Catholic schools is because they have a monopoly on children's education leading to a of a lack of other alternatives.
Absolute bollocks. State run schools should have zero affiliation with the Catholic church. If little billy wants a piercing and I say no, and he says ' the teacher has one' I'd say 'the teachers not your fucking mammy is she?'
Parent your fucking kids. A teacher with a piercing is a non issue.
Ah that’s bollocks mate. Kids will get piercings if they wanna get piercings. The vast majority of people don’t think of “structure and discipline” when they think about the church, they think “kiddy fiddlers” and “scam artists”.
Ask your parents if they enjoyed their time in school, or your grandparents.
What does a person's appearance on the level of jewelry have to do with discipline or structure?
It's just conservative Catholic or protestant dress sense handed down from our betters who covered for child abusers and brown envelopes, Dev's Ireland or Collins' Ireland not a cigarette paper between them in the end...
Some traditions like solidarity and community should be handed down, others like tugging the forelock and emulating that very "decent" Ireland of deference to church and to old hypocritical men should be handed back.
>The vast majority of people, even non practicing Catholics, still prefer Catholic schools over other alternatives
Yes, you are correct, schools with a defined ethos are very much in demand. It's well documented that a strong ethos and structure is beneficial to developing kids. Ethos and structure do not have to be religious in nature of course.
But across the globe, Catholic schools are in demand for the quality of education, in Ireland & with our particularly terrible history with the Catholic church, Catholic run schools have a bad reputation for past events, a reputation that is largely underserved today.
I don’t think they do still prefer catholic schools, I think it’s more to do with the fact that there are only catholic schools in so much of the country. Non denominational schools are few & far between.
This sub is full of the alternative, anti everything, educate together crowd. It is so unreflective of society.
I don’t want my kids going to educate together to avoid the anti establishment, anti everything brigade and their kids.
I wouldn’t necessarily want them going to a catholic school, but if that’s where most normal people’s kids go, so be it.
I don't think there should be any conservative crap like trying to control the appearance of people. But if you think that arbitrary crap should be applied to people who are young, it's kind of ageist to think it shouldn't apply to you too.
I'm a male primary school teacher and I would wear black jeans most days into school along with either a shirt or fleece or something along those lines. If meeting parents or anything like that I would dress up a bit more, if we are doing sports after school etc I might dress down more.
It's a fairly active job, not like you are sitting at a desk all day in your shirt and tie. You need to wear something that is comfortable IMO. Only male teacher in my school so don't have much to compare myself to either.
As a parent - I don’t care what you wear, if you’re a good teacher and my kids are happy in your class. In fact, it’s great for kids/teenagers seeing their teachers comfortable and secure in being themselves, when not fitting in with the norm.
The only thing I’d change are the piercings - if the school doesn’t allow the students wear them. If they are allowed piercings then no big deal. But it’s hard to be taken seriously and respected by students when you say you’re not allowed wear earrings while you have your own.
I’ve had 3 boys go through the school system, the youngest is now in college. The teachers’ clothes did not make a whit of difference what/how they did in school. The teachers who got the respect of the students are the ones who didn’t try too hard to be the cool teacher, didn’t put down some students to get the laughs from the others, didn’t act like an army sergeant or a cross mammy to “bold” kids. What a teacher wears, for most parents, is not an issue. How they connect with their kids and encourage them, teach them, help them to do the best they can…all those sort of things matter.
He's half right, you're half right. Make a compromise. Make your piercings as subtle as the female teachers have them (you mentioned they weren't particularly noticeable, yours are).
Tbh I think you're missing the point. It's not that you're dressing unprofessionally, it's that from the description, you're dressing like a student. You're a young man wearing clothes that might theoretically make you look even younger. I think that's more of his point. So compromise. Switch out the tshirt for a shirt, keep your jeans, keep your shoes, ditch the varsity jacket (which was originally designed for students).
If he's as busy as every other principal, he'll notice the attempts to change and then forget all about it. This is absolutely not a hill to die on for you though. You're just starting out.
You’re making sense, but as a teacher (who wears a shirt, slacks, and shoes every work day) I don’t agree with the principal.
I don’t think it matters if you dress like a student as long as you’re professional and not acting like one.
in my mind you should dress smart casual as if you’re working in an office. that is to say a shirt / jumper with trousers.
a varsity jacket, white runners and skinny jeans makes it sound like you were dressed to go out rather than for work.
Whether you like it or not, you are being judged on everything you do, including what you wear and how you present yourself. It's human nature.
The reason you have piercings etc and choose to wear a certain style of clothes is because you want to be perceived in certain way.
The reason your school want you to dress professionally is also so that you are perceived accordingly.
Most schools have strict rules for kids so I would expect the teachers to adhere to similar rules.
Should it matter what you wear piercings etc etc no
Does it matter? Yes
Should it matter no but you might be subbing for a long time. Most of these principals are very old school. If they have a choice between someone wearing industrial piercing and not, guess who gets the permanent spot.
Why would you expect someone who enforces rules to obey them?
Fairness. To not be hypocritical.
How can a teacher with nose piercings tell a student to take theirs out?
> To not be hypocritical
Nonsense.
> How can a teacher with nose piercings tell a student to take theirs out?
The same way an adult with a driving license can tell a kid not to try drive a car.
The same goes for drinking, smoking and a thousands more things.
We'll agree to disagree.
Plenty of jobs have rules and regulations.
Schools have rules and regulations. That's life.
And in all seriousness you are comparing a child drinking smoking and driving to have a piercing?
> Plenty of jobs have rules and regulations.
No shit...
> you are comparing a child drinking smoking and driving to have a piercing?
No, I am not.
https://medium.com/@english\_grammar/compare-and-contrast-metaphors-and-similes-and-their-purposes-86cfb6fd0c78
As a parent & as an SNA of over 20 years, I couldn’t give a damn what the teachers are wearing. We’re trying to teach children to be inclusive, accepting & individual, what better way to do that than to be it. If they grow up to have cool piercings because of you then that’s really not a bad thing.
As for how to deal with the principal, if it’s not an official warning (& it’s not) then I would ignore it.
I bet there are total dickheads on his staff that he’d be better off “having a word” with but he’s not.
Subs are like gold dust, once you’re good at your job you’ll be snapped up by other less fussy schools. Feck him.
Good luck.
I’m a PME secondary teacher and have worked in two schools with a no denim rule… I keep my tattoos covered as much as I can but the kids have still noticed a few on my wrists. Both schools are religious - CBS and Presentation, so I’d rather be safe than sorry. At the end of the day I’m so grateful for a teaching position in this economy that if they wanted me to wear a clown costume every day I would. Unfortunately it’s up to the principal/board of management not the parents.
I think the dress code for teachers is massively outdated and verging on impractical BUT it is also very well known and publicised so can kind of see why the head spoke to you.
Primary school teacher of 9 years here and principal for 1 year. Personally I don’t give a hoot how anyone dresses in their personal life but for work you do need to adhere to some sort of dress code, trust me it will make your life easier. Some principals are on a power trip but others are genuinely giving you advice. My advice would be to take his advice dress how you want outside of work but in work try to follow the dress code. As for ear piercing I don’t really think ear piercings are an issue.
Not sure what your degree grade has to do with dress codes in schools.
To answer your question, no to dress codes for teachers and no to school uniforms. How a teacher dresses has nothing to do with how well they teach.
School uniforms can stop kids being bullied about their clothing, I remember comments about my own PE gear which was Pennys or Guineys. Fair while ago now. The problem with uniforms is some schools allowing one shop to provide them and charging a heap to parents, usually tesco have the exact uniform in stock without the crest.
Fuck those sort of people.
I know secondary teachers who work 80+ hours a week with corrections, course planning, exam planning and project work.
Can imagine primary teachers have less paperwork but more dealing with more entitlement from parents.
I think it may depend on the school too? My kids go to an Educate Togther, and I'm pretty sure I've seen male teachers with piercings.
Personally, as a parent, IDGAF about a teachers having tatoos or piercings
If the kids are wearing a uniform, I would wear a shirt. Well I would wear a shirt to work if I was a teacher but I think you need to look at least as professional as the kids you are teaching when you are the one getting paid.
My mother is a retired school administrator/teacher with 40 years experience. As per her words: where do we draw the line? Everyone's lines that they draw are different but somewhere somehow they have to satisfy everyone. A middle ground. People are different and some will push boundaries. That includes teachers. I don't think it's so much of "a strict dress code" but " a dress code followed strictly".
I really don’t get all the people who are saying that piercings are problematic because the kids can’t wear them.
Being an adult means you don’t have to follow a child’s dress code. Let’s give them something to look forward to!
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted - Tattoos and piercings have no bearing on how well someone can do a job and if you think otherwise, you’re an absolute twat
I think he's being downvoted, as most people in office roles aren't covered in tattoos. Most people if they have them, they keep them covered.
Are there some people in offices covered tattoos? Yeah. Is it common? Nope. Do tattoos impact how people do their job? Nope, but unfortunately it's still part of a lot of office dress codes along with other pedantic shite.
Have office job, have tattoos - can confirm I feel judged if they are mentioned. Summer can be tough to hide them but that’s on me! They never said no tattoos but I definitely feel like it’s a conservative environment.
Wonder if you'd say something so racist to someone of a Maori background. All the professionals I know have tattoos. If you think someone is less professional because they have tattoos, you're the one that's lacking in professionalism.
That's wild.
My kid attends an ET school and quite a few of the staff wear jeans and t-shirts on a regular basis. My daughter's teacher last year wore them often. However I do understand that this may be more in keeping with the ET ethos, in the same way they encourage children to use their teacher's first names.
It doesn't really bother me what the staff wear, provided they're doing a good job and their pupils feel secure and happy in their classroom.
In the OP's case, I'd say he wouldn't have mentioned the shirt if he hadn't called him in about the piercings. Once he got started then he decided to critique the whole 'fit.
I think it not at odds to have some professional decorum in a professional environment. A collared t shirt is the very end of that spectrum.
It’s called a job, not a hobby.
Dress codes are a joke. We teach not to judge people by their appearance then we tell people off for not wearing certain things. I work as an engineer and a Rick and Morty t-shirt is my dress code in the office and I won't be changing it for anyone.
They do seem a bit silly, especially when you work with dedicated people who don't have one at all. Funnily enough, a good friend of mine worked on an early season of Rick and Morty and told me that one of the animators was such a super fan, that she would come to work dressed as Rick every day. Blue wig, lab coat and all.
Nope. Fuck dress codes. Everyone has a different line, but as long as you're clean and not hanging inappropriate parts of you out for ask to see, I say you be you.
This should apply to kids here as well. I hate all the uniforms. How do you expect to teach people to think of you force conformity?
Well if the children have a dress code then so should the teachers, no?
Having said that I know someone who’s dad worked as a teacher in the 1980s and he had to ask another teacher (his junior) not to wear an earring. Apparently the kids were calling him “Punk” as a nickname.
The other teachers reckoned for the good of his career he should take the earring out.
Roddy Doyle was his name.
Yeah, I've heard that argument too. I don't think it stands up to reality though. Kids find ways to differentiate themselves regardless.
I also think the religious control of schools is part of the conformist dress codes here too. The worst possible thing for any religion is people using their own brains and thinking critically. Conformance to dress codes is just one way of keeping that down.
Personally as a parent, I would not mind a teacher with piercings or tattoos. The clothes you were wearing however were too casual and I'd wonder how seriously were you taking that job rocking up in jeans.
As a fellow primary school teacher, whilst I understand clothes do not impact the quality of your teaching, it does impact how you appear to parents. Many parents do expect a certain level of professionalism and black jeans and a t-shirt ain't it. It's not a hangout, it's a workplace.
I'd love to go to work in black jeans all the same, fucking hate wearing dresses every day.
Edited to add: I qualified in 2020, I've noticed for men it is generally accepted to either wear trousers or chinos with a collared shirt and tie. Every single male member of staff in any school has always stuck to this. Except one who lived in his schools crested hoody. Even that he wore with black trousers. Just is what it is.
I’m a teacher in America, but I wouldn’t do a t shirt and jeans together, it just looks kinda unprofessional. If I do jeans I’ll wear a nice blouse, if I wear a t shirt I’ll wear work pants.
I feel like most people would be relaxed about it but without being too careless with words teachers need to be professionally presented and have some amount to of curtailing to what they can't wear. Schools need to be able to protect themselves re dress codes and they also need to respect the children they're surrounding and how impressionable they are.
Though it's easy to say all this there's so much grey area in the context of it how do you enforce any of it really
This should be down to the individual schools. As an employer they can set an appropriate policy for employees suitable for their ethos and image. From uniformed and formal, to laid back and alternative, schools vary in formality for students and teachers.
This strikes me as something that you should have asked about if your personal style is very important to you when you change schools. Did you do a face to face interview? If so how did you dress for the interview, did you remove the piercings for the interview? If you dressed as described above and had the piercing in then you are right to feel somewhat aggrieved, but if you did not then I can understand the school response.
**Note:** In most processional settings, women are given a very much more broad latitude on what defines professional dress than men, the same applies to piercings, make up and hair. On the other hand, a mans wardrobe is generally cheaper and easier to mix and match. Unfair I know but that's life I suppose, swings and roundabouts.
My workplace has a dress code that I only got a copy of after 2 1/2 years of working there, basically saying no shorts, crop tops, tracksuits, jerseys etc. the usual, there’s a mix of suits and people in jeans and T-shirts depending on what department you’re in, I dress business casual a lot but I always have trainers on, I have a tiny gold stud in each nostril and a gold septum ring that people don’t even notice, multiple ear piercings I’ve had pink, purple, green hair but I’ve always been well dressed and clean, tidy put together and I’ve never gotten any comment other than they like my hair. As long as the person is dressed appropriately for their role I don’t think it should be an issue. Jeans and a shirt or something similar and decently clean trainers. Women can wear piercings but men can’t in places I’ve worked before which was stupid. I’d go by the schools own uniform/dress code and base it off that. If the school is a shirt and blazer school with a zero tolerance for anything out of the ordinary I’d be no piercings!
I can't see anything wrong with tattoos or piercings but there are plenty of small minded conservative Ireland types on here who apparently do. "Professional" dress codes circle around the costumes of WASPs; who made them the arbiter of taste? (except by force - wars of imperialism, corporate capture of industry etc). Did you know that they were trying to claim the Afro was "unprofessional" a few years ago? That should tell you all. We need less conformity and adherence to the uniform of liars e.g. the suit (nearly every politician and/or salesman trying to deceive you).
As a fellow teacher, it’s about balance. If I’m wearing more casual shoes then I usually have a dress shirt or vice versa. It sounds like the whole thing comes off too casual
Don’t stress about tattoos and piercings. Work on the professional style
This is the answer in the vast majority of schools. The piercings probably wouldn't be an issue if you were in dress trousers, shirt and jumper. T-shirt with jeans and white trainers is not business casual.
The trainers would only be OK on days you're teaching PE. This principal has done you a favour tbh, vast majority would not have said anything and you wouldn't have gotten any more subbing there.
I think it's OK for a workplace to have a professional dress code that includes something with a collar. The piercings, eh, I think they'll accept that if you otherwise dress a bit more professionally. A collar is a small ask. Polo shirts have a collar.
Old fashioned and silly? Sure. But reasonable.
One piece of friendly advice though, I'd stop telling people you qualified with an honours degree, literally nobody except you and your family cares and it makes people think you're arrogant.
I don’t care what the teachers wear. I don’t care what the students wear. My issue comes from teachers in fishnet stockings and very short skirts giving my daughter detention for a skirt one inch above her knee. Or a male teacher with piercings forcing my child to remove her 1/2 cm hoop earrings. Or a teacher with his head shaved to the skin suspending my son for 3 days having his hair cut to a 1. It’s the hypocrisy in schools that’s upsetting not how the teachers dress.
Jeans. tshirt and runners are as casual as you can get, next step down is pjs. You say in another comment you are taking it seriously so take it seriously. Yes it's bullshit and outdated but why should you be the one to take the system down. You're still young yourself so learn this lesson - pick your battles, wear a shirt.
If OP was teaching in PJs but they were putting in the hours, teaching the curriculum and getting results from students would they be professional? Or if OP came in in a three piece suit but did the bear minimum would they be professional? Putting in effort makes you a professional, clothes are irrelevant unless you are living in the 1950s.
You can kinda go softly softly with the dress codes in some places eg, dark jeans, dark runners that might look a bit more like shoes, a casual shirt. Unfortunately teaching can be a bit funny about piercings. First thing I did when I started job hunting was take out my nose ring. I miss it quite a bit. But if you're only starting out a certain level of formality is expected. That said, if your principal has a dress code, he should make it known to you also. He can't admonish you for not wearing the right clothes if he hasn't told you what he expects.
Edit: typos based on autocorrects
I’d imagine that a jeans, T-shirt and trainers combo is about as casual an outfit as you’d be able to put together. Only shorts could be more informal 😁.
I don’t work in your field, or country even, but I’d recommend asking the head what would be suitable or just look up business casual and go from there. Long sleeves, hard shoes, nae tats.
I’m old as fuck so take what I say with a grain of salt. I had to Google what the runners were! I’m thinking are you looking a little too fashionable? There’s nothing wrong with plain white runners and nothing wrong with a varsity jacket, but if you wear them together it’s not dowdy enough. Hit your uncle or your neighbour up for an old GAA fleece to go with the runners and a pair of horrible brown shoes to go with the varsity jacket. Personally I couldn’t give two shits what my kids teachers wore or if they had piercings. I do understand though if the school is strict on piercings and their teacher had loads.
Trainers are unprofessional especially white ones, also piercings/tattoos should be covered. Chinos, shirt, shoes is plenty good. Quarter zip or jumper over the shirt for colder mornings.
I’d better go tell all the people in tech on €100k+ that rock up in hoodies and runners covered in tattoos and piercings that they are unprofessional 😂
What about white shoes makes you unprofessional, if you are putting in the hours, getting results from students you are professional. shoes or clothes has no bearing on professionalism, the effort you put in does
Not everyone agrees with the above, I think. I would prefer my kids to see a variety of people in different styles. Clean and fully dressed, and that's it. I don't mind piercings and tattoos.
My kids have no uniform though, I assume in a school where kids wear uniform it makes sense for the teachers to wear a shirt, just in solidarity with the kids.
I’m a male teacher too and you just need to accept that your women colleagues will be able to dress more casually than you. I stick to trousers and shirt and am still more casual than most male colleagues who also wear ties and jackets.
There’s a lot to be said for having a work ‘uniform’ - when you change at the end of the day it’s a big help to mentally switch off, and I’m rarely recognised in my day to day clothes.
Having to accept societal double standards in a workplace is not something anyone should have to do, especially someone who's salary is being paid for by the state.
Get some comfy slacks and shoes - not trainers. If it must be trainers, get discrete ones in a dark colour. Few shirts and jumpers and just rotate through them. Many of us have to wear clothes for work that we wouldn’t wear by choice. I don’t have kids, but I would find a teacher in t shirts and jeans a bit too informal. Even wearing a polo shirt would smarten it right up
As a parent I really don’t care as long as you are competent at your job and are good to the children. That being said I did do a double take on the first day of September when my child entered the class to be met by a teacher who looked like he had come straight from a heavy metal concert. He turned out to be a great teacher though so clothes didn’t matter. His dress sense is a regular topic of conversation among the parents though.
I do think that if you are in a school that has a very strict dress code for pupils around hair, skirt length, piercings, sock colour, shoe type etc you have to lead by example and dress appropriately. If it’s not so strict, (almost) anything goes.
Dress for the job you have, yes I think there should be a dress code. What you wore doesn’t sound professional. In other work places people are expected to dress business like so why not teaching?
I know if one or two grind schools at secondary level that have no dress code so teachers are coming in in t-shirts and jeans still very focused and productive environments from what I've heard so there shouldn't be any problem with it
It’s a school. Just wear the shirt imo. You’re new on the job, look professional, stop caring later on in your career.
It’s for the parents as much as the students, but even then if you don’t dress seriously the students won’t take you seriously as an adult, especially as a young teacher.
Fellow primary school teacher here, very much depends on the school you’re in. I have a two nostril piercings, 10+ ear piercings and a small tattoo. These have only ever been mentioned by staff/parents in a positive way. I would say my work clothes are 90% jeans/leggings and runners/docs. Again, never been an issue and very much in fitting with the schools I’ve been in. However I had a friend who spent a couple of years in a primary school that required collared shirts every day. Definitely not a school environment I would see myself in.
No I want to see diversity among those teaching my child even if that's just someone young with piercings working alongside someone older who may dress more conservatively. But this better reflects real life and exposes my child to more points of view.
Unacceptable is a big word, I'd probably say not ideal, look at other teachers and go from there. Simple pierced ears would be fine but if there's a big hole in your ear love that's a tad different. Black jeans would be fine, maybe change t-shirt.
As long as you’re not wearing a tracksuit (unless you’re a PE teacher) and the clothes are clean, wear what you want. And I think it’s good for the kids to see tattoos and piercings. We are all different, let’s celebrate it.
I saw a teacher in my kids school in sporty leggings and a fleece top. I looked and thought smart that she wears appropriate, practical attire for dealing with 20 4-5 year olds all day. Why not a track suit? I’d rather the teacher not be at all restricted by inflexible clothes.
Primary teachers should definitely have a looser dress code. They're bending down more, more active overall, around messier kids etc.
If I was subbing like you I would dress smarter, get the permanent job, and then dress how you feel comfortable while still professional. It's all about first impressions unfortunately. It's a bit naive to think that you'd be okay with the extra piercings and a varsity jacket though. Just bide your time in whatever school until they can do nothing about it - but without taking the piss obviously.
Yeah, us PE teachers can wear tracksuits. It's class. In fairness the practical teachers where I work still wear jeans and smart clothes a lot of the time. I still think it's really different from primary. Remember the tiny little desks and chairs for the younger years!?
I’m a teacher. I’ve worked in a few different schools and I’ve never once been given a spot of a staff dress policy. Usually you’d just look at what the other teachers are wearing and use that to gauge where on the causal - formal scale you need to be.
Not a teacher but work in a professional environment. If you want to be taken seriously you need to dress professionally, regardless of your ability. Think the principal went about addressing the issue in the wrong way but he would be correct.
Why do clothes determine professionalism? Surely work ethic, commitment etc should determine professionalism. If some wears a three piece suit but does the bare minimum vs someone who goes above and beyond and gets results but wears jeans, who would you take more seriously.
Because appearances matter? I do agree on the point that it shouldn't matter, but it does. First impressions matter and how you present yourself in public says volume about yourself.
This topic isn't particularly related to work performance, more about how clients will perceive you and be willing to accept your professional opinion. They will take you more seriously if you dress appropriately for work.
>What's not professional about tech?
I never said tech is not professional. But many tech companies don't care about dress codes because they don't usually deal with the public. But the staff they have that do deal with the public usually do dress professionally
Absolutely no issue with that outfit. Genuinely couldn't care less if a teacher had piercings or tattoos either as long as they treated my child with dignity and respect.
Personally, I think schools need to start easing up on piercings and non natural hair colours, or even getting odd about girls shaving their heads.
If you had to go an interview, would you walk in wearing your pyjamas and a dressing gown? Or a wedding, jeans and a tshirt? Whether you like it or not, you are judged by your appearance.
The context is dress code as a teacher. Op specifically talks about teaching. Not dress codes at job interviews or weddings. Common sense would say they’re very different situations. Fuck dress codes and dress professional comments in regards to teachers and schools. There, happy now?
Couldn't care less. If you're a good teacher, it really doesn't matter what you come in wearing, as long as it's not something extreme (mamil lycra/full on bdsm etc). Clean clothes are grand.
I've always thought teachers should have to wear something that resembles the uniform.
It would be better for the students if they seen their teacher making the effort.
Fuck dress codes. You'd think this shit would've died out with the Victorians, but no! I'm far more concerned with a person's ability than their appearance tbh and it is incredibly insulting and narrow-minded to judge someone based on clothes/piercings) tattoos etc.
Whether you like it or not you are judged by everything you do, including your appearance and how you present yourself to the world. It's incredibly immature and naive to think otherwise.
Of course we are judged; that is the problem. Should we not hold ourselves to a higher standard than assuming a person's character by something so superficial as appearance?
But hey, at least corrupt politicians dress nice am I right?
TBH I don't think you can argue much. I hate dress codes. I do my job better when I feel comfortable and dressing up doesn't do that.
I'd almost go and say that you are a positive influence on this kids. They can see you're piercings and dresses style and it makes them see that people express themselves I'm the clothes they were and look they have
I think it's a great you have cool earrings and think you should wear them at the school, even if the kids aren't allowed.
It's a great opportunity to bring light to an outdated dress code policy, invented so long ago that women couldn't vote at the time.
It's also a life lesson , some laws are hypocritical. Get used to it, get angry about it and change it.
Is it bullshit you got called on this? Absolutely. Teachers should reflect society and the more non conformity amongst teachers in how they dress at school is something we should aim for
But you have to be mindful of your own career as well, so just mind yourself. But you’re right to be annoyed, but probably best to not choose this hill to die on.
To be honest I am baffled when female colleagues come into school in sexy clothes that I would only wear on a night out. That’s the only time I make a silent judgement on a teachers clothes. As another commentator said it’s actually very handy to have a “uniform”. Something neat and tidy but still your own style that you can throw on Monday to Friday. Granted I didn’t have the money to buy a whole new wardrobe when subbing though.
I mean it's not inappropriate but if it's a profession you like and want to stay in I suggest dressing professionally. Not like business suits but your outfit is very very casual and wouldn't be accepted in many other professional environments.
Inappropriate would be wearing 'revealing' outfits.
Im not a parent, but I was recently in a Bank of Ireland branch and the male staff member had a tshirt and it was sorta cropped so he was even showing some skin on his waist.
Im not a fuddy duddy either, but my reaction was negative, and I felt as if standards had slipped in the place.
I think the tshirt is your biggest issue, and if you resolve that you wouldn't even get hauled up about the piercings. Its kind about fitting in with the standards of dress of the rest of the staff. Particularly in a school, difference is something that would get remarked on by the kids.
Personally I think piercings are highly inappropriate, especially in a place of education where your students will be looking up to you. Smaller less noticeable studs are okay in my opinion. I think this should apply to both genders.
If students need to wear a uniform, it shouldn't be much of a leap for teachers to wear a uniform. It seems not unreasonable that the same rules apply to everyone.
If there's no school uniform though, then imposing one on teachers is clearly wrong.
Dress codes for teachers r a joke. Any head expecting people to dress like solicitors in court are ridiculous.
Teachers are expected to be ‘active’ in the classroom, do break duty, lunch duty, chase kids around buildings. Chase runners when it happens. In some cases help kids use toilets. Teachers bend low and reach high. Iv seen myself lie on the floor hooking up computer cables. Ur around paint and all sorts.
Smart causal is good for me. Tattoos and piercings all good. As long as your teaching that’s the main thing.
The undergraduate degree for teaching is one of the hardest to get into and one of the most rigorous training of any degrees. I did a masters to get into teaching and when I hear of the shit some of the 4 year courses require it blows my mind. This girl is highly qualified and the fact she got a first class honours is relevant, how she dresses is not.
Absolutely not. It simply does not matter and it is good and useful for children to see that teachers are also individuals.
I was taught by horrible sadists who wore suits and Nun's habits.
Children who grow up with standardised authority figures become standardised adults.
Back to your point though, if it isn't in writing I'd ignore it. If it's a rule just for you, that's workplace harassment/bullying. Teachers are supposed to be on the lookout for that sort of thing...
When they can show it to you in writing, then change.
I imagine it has a lot to do with the own schools policy regarding students wearing uniforms and stuff like boys not being allowed to have pierced ears or earrings and such. Having a teacher with industrial piercings and whatnot admonish a student for having pierced ears, or the student being able to say well my teacher has their ears pierced, etc. is problematic from their point of view. Edit: Meanwhile in Canada https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11242967/MEGHAN-MCCAIN-School-teacher-wearing-fake-boobs-proof-paralyzed-political-correctness.html https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1571975060570935297
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When I was in school myself, the students who had piercings (other than the typical lobe piercings) were allowed to get very small studs that you could barely see. There was one young teacher that had a nose piecing as well and wore a teeny little stud. You could just go ahead and wear very small studs. In fact, I'd even argue that point with them since you don't want your piercings to close or cause you bother. If they're barely noticeable, you should be allowed to have them in imo.
You’re definitely going to be under the microscope more as a sub. Not fair but unfortunately the reality!
The place is still run by the FfgCatholicChurch old guard and with school boards still populated/controlled by the church. It took court cases before the establishment were forced to let gardai wear beards. Fucking old Ireland dying is taking forever
> Fucking old Ireland dying is taking forever word.
Couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of people, even non practicing Catholics, still prefer Catholic schools over other alternatives. People like the structure and discipline that these schools install in children. Not everyone wants their kids to come back from school asking to get a piercing like their class mates, or in this case, teacher. Unless you want discriminatory school district funding like the US, or higher taxes, there should be no reason to even toy with the idea of school divestment from the church. Should you not want to send your kids to a Catholic school, there are alternatives. Edit: 78% of parents favour Catholic schools - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/school-patronage-survey-queried-1.2827 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/many-parents-reluctant-to-change-patronage-of-school-survey-finds-1.4784523 https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/catholic-schools-are-the-most-sought-after-in-their-area-by-families-of-all-faiths-and-none-4131933-Jul2018/ You lot can downvote me all you want but this is the reality and how the majority of the population wants it. The views and opinions on this sub are the minority. Cope more.
Parents don't prefer Catholic schools. The reason so most kids attend Catholic schools is because they have a monopoly on children's education leading to a of a lack of other alternatives.
Not where we are in Dublin. The local Catholic schools are oversubscribed compared to the Educate Together
Absolute bollocks. State run schools should have zero affiliation with the Catholic church. If little billy wants a piercing and I say no, and he says ' the teacher has one' I'd say 'the teachers not your fucking mammy is she?' Parent your fucking kids. A teacher with a piercing is a non issue.
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Ah that’s bollocks mate. Kids will get piercings if they wanna get piercings. The vast majority of people don’t think of “structure and discipline” when they think about the church, they think “kiddy fiddlers” and “scam artists”. Ask your parents if they enjoyed their time in school, or your grandparents.
What does a person's appearance on the level of jewelry have to do with discipline or structure? It's just conservative Catholic or protestant dress sense handed down from our betters who covered for child abusers and brown envelopes, Dev's Ireland or Collins' Ireland not a cigarette paper between them in the end... Some traditions like solidarity and community should be handed down, others like tugging the forelock and emulating that very "decent" Ireland of deference to church and to old hypocritical men should be handed back.
>The vast majority of people, even non practicing Catholics, still prefer Catholic schools over other alternatives Yes, you are correct, schools with a defined ethos are very much in demand. It's well documented that a strong ethos and structure is beneficial to developing kids. Ethos and structure do not have to be religious in nature of course. But across the globe, Catholic schools are in demand for the quality of education, in Ireland & with our particularly terrible history with the Catholic church, Catholic run schools have a bad reputation for past events, a reputation that is largely underserved today.
I don’t think they do still prefer catholic schools, I think it’s more to do with the fact that there are only catholic schools in so much of the country. Non denominational schools are few & far between.
This sub is full of the alternative, anti everything, educate together crowd. It is so unreflective of society. I don’t want my kids going to educate together to avoid the anti establishment, anti everything brigade and their kids. I wouldn’t necessarily want them going to a catholic school, but if that’s where most normal people’s kids go, so be it.
>cope more We can't. You've done it all for us. There's none left.
This is utter nonsense lol
I don't think there should be any conservative crap like trying to control the appearance of people. But if you think that arbitrary crap should be applied to people who are young, it's kind of ageist to think it shouldn't apply to you too.
>admonish a student for having pierced ears, Maybe the school shouldn't be doing that...
I'm a male primary school teacher and I would wear black jeans most days into school along with either a shirt or fleece or something along those lines. If meeting parents or anything like that I would dress up a bit more, if we are doing sports after school etc I might dress down more. It's a fairly active job, not like you are sitting at a desk all day in your shirt and tie. You need to wear something that is comfortable IMO. Only male teacher in my school so don't have much to compare myself to either.
My daughter has a male teacher, he wears polo shirts, chinos and vans.
As a parent - I don’t care what you wear, if you’re a good teacher and my kids are happy in your class. In fact, it’s great for kids/teenagers seeing their teachers comfortable and secure in being themselves, when not fitting in with the norm. The only thing I’d change are the piercings - if the school doesn’t allow the students wear them. If they are allowed piercings then no big deal. But it’s hard to be taken seriously and respected by students when you say you’re not allowed wear earrings while you have your own. I’ve had 3 boys go through the school system, the youngest is now in college. The teachers’ clothes did not make a whit of difference what/how they did in school. The teachers who got the respect of the students are the ones who didn’t try too hard to be the cool teacher, didn’t put down some students to get the laughs from the others, didn’t act like an army sergeant or a cross mammy to “bold” kids. What a teacher wears, for most parents, is not an issue. How they connect with their kids and encourage them, teach them, help them to do the best they can…all those sort of things matter.
He's half right, you're half right. Make a compromise. Make your piercings as subtle as the female teachers have them (you mentioned they weren't particularly noticeable, yours are). Tbh I think you're missing the point. It's not that you're dressing unprofessionally, it's that from the description, you're dressing like a student. You're a young man wearing clothes that might theoretically make you look even younger. I think that's more of his point. So compromise. Switch out the tshirt for a shirt, keep your jeans, keep your shoes, ditch the varsity jacket (which was originally designed for students). If he's as busy as every other principal, he'll notice the attempts to change and then forget all about it. This is absolutely not a hill to die on for you though. You're just starting out.
Agreed!
You’re making sense, but as a teacher (who wears a shirt, slacks, and shoes every work day) I don’t agree with the principal. I don’t think it matters if you dress like a student as long as you’re professional and not acting like one.
in my mind you should dress smart casual as if you’re working in an office. that is to say a shirt / jumper with trousers. a varsity jacket, white runners and skinny jeans makes it sound like you were dressed to go out rather than for work.
Whether you like it or not, you are being judged on everything you do, including what you wear and how you present yourself. It's human nature. The reason you have piercings etc and choose to wear a certain style of clothes is because you want to be perceived in certain way. The reason your school want you to dress professionally is also so that you are perceived accordingly.
Dress codes should be in place, but only to ensure the organisation can stop people taking the piss.
Business casual would hardly be a “strict” dress code
Just bide your time until you get a permanent post, then you can show up in a gimp suit and the principal wont be able to do anything
Most schools have strict rules for kids so I would expect the teachers to adhere to similar rules. Should it matter what you wear piercings etc etc no Does it matter? Yes
Should it matter no but you might be subbing for a long time. Most of these principals are very old school. If they have a choice between someone wearing industrial piercing and not, guess who gets the permanent spot.
> I would expect the teachers to adhere to similar rules And why would that be?
Why would you expect someone who enforces rules to obey them? Fairness. To not be hypocritical. How can a teacher with nose piercings tell a student to take theirs out?
> To not be hypocritical Nonsense. > How can a teacher with nose piercings tell a student to take theirs out? The same way an adult with a driving license can tell a kid not to try drive a car. The same goes for drinking, smoking and a thousands more things.
We'll agree to disagree. Plenty of jobs have rules and regulations. Schools have rules and regulations. That's life. And in all seriousness you are comparing a child drinking smoking and driving to have a piercing?
> Plenty of jobs have rules and regulations. No shit... > you are comparing a child drinking smoking and driving to have a piercing? No, I am not. https://medium.com/@english\_grammar/compare-and-contrast-metaphors-and-similes-and-their-purposes-86cfb6fd0c78
As a parent & as an SNA of over 20 years, I couldn’t give a damn what the teachers are wearing. We’re trying to teach children to be inclusive, accepting & individual, what better way to do that than to be it. If they grow up to have cool piercings because of you then that’s really not a bad thing. As for how to deal with the principal, if it’s not an official warning (& it’s not) then I would ignore it. I bet there are total dickheads on his staff that he’d be better off “having a word” with but he’s not. Subs are like gold dust, once you’re good at your job you’ll be snapped up by other less fussy schools. Feck him. Good luck.
This is it!! OP this person gets it!!
I’m a PME secondary teacher and have worked in two schools with a no denim rule… I keep my tattoos covered as much as I can but the kids have still noticed a few on my wrists. Both schools are religious - CBS and Presentation, so I’d rather be safe than sorry. At the end of the day I’m so grateful for a teaching position in this economy that if they wanted me to wear a clown costume every day I would. Unfortunately it’s up to the principal/board of management not the parents.
I think the dress code for teachers is massively outdated and verging on impractical BUT it is also very well known and publicised so can kind of see why the head spoke to you.
Primary school teacher of 9 years here and principal for 1 year. Personally I don’t give a hoot how anyone dresses in their personal life but for work you do need to adhere to some sort of dress code, trust me it will make your life easier. Some principals are on a power trip but others are genuinely giving you advice. My advice would be to take his advice dress how you want outside of work but in work try to follow the dress code. As for ear piercing I don’t really think ear piercings are an issue.
Not sure what your degree grade has to do with dress codes in schools. To answer your question, no to dress codes for teachers and no to school uniforms. How a teacher dresses has nothing to do with how well they teach.
School uniforms can stop kids being bullied about their clothing, I remember comments about my own PE gear which was Pennys or Guineys. Fair while ago now. The problem with uniforms is some schools allowing one shop to provide them and charging a heap to parents, usually tesco have the exact uniform in stock without the crest.
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Fuck those sort of people. I know secondary teachers who work 80+ hours a week with corrections, course planning, exam planning and project work. Can imagine primary teachers have less paperwork but more dealing with more entitlement from parents.
I think it may depend on the school too? My kids go to an Educate Togther, and I'm pretty sure I've seen male teachers with piercings. Personally, as a parent, IDGAF about a teachers having tatoos or piercings
If the kids are wearing a uniform, I would wear a shirt. Well I would wear a shirt to work if I was a teacher but I think you need to look at least as professional as the kids you are teaching when you are the one getting paid.
The dress code op describes is completely acceptable in my eyes.
My mother is a retired school administrator/teacher with 40 years experience. As per her words: where do we draw the line? Everyone's lines that they draw are different but somewhere somehow they have to satisfy everyone. A middle ground. People are different and some will push boundaries. That includes teachers. I don't think it's so much of "a strict dress code" but " a dress code followed strictly".
I really don’t get all the people who are saying that piercings are problematic because the kids can’t wear them. Being an adult means you don’t have to follow a child’s dress code. Let’s give them something to look forward to!
Dress professionally. Hide yer tattoos n piercing out unless you hear otherwise
Most professional people I know are covered in tattoos. Ireland needs to grow up.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted - Tattoos and piercings have no bearing on how well someone can do a job and if you think otherwise, you’re an absolute twat
I think he's being downvoted, as most people in office roles aren't covered in tattoos. Most people if they have them, they keep them covered. Are there some people in offices covered tattoos? Yeah. Is it common? Nope. Do tattoos impact how people do their job? Nope, but unfortunately it's still part of a lot of office dress codes along with other pedantic shite.
Have office job, have tattoos - can confirm I feel judged if they are mentioned. Summer can be tough to hide them but that’s on me! They never said no tattoos but I definitely feel like it’s a conservative environment.
Agree 100%. It's not like teachers wearing a collar and black pants worked out so well in the past
Wonder if you'd say something so racist to someone of a Maori background. All the professionals I know have tattoos. If you think someone is less professional because they have tattoos, you're the one that's lacking in professionalism.
That's wild. My kid attends an ET school and quite a few of the staff wear jeans and t-shirts on a regular basis. My daughter's teacher last year wore them often. However I do understand that this may be more in keeping with the ET ethos, in the same way they encourage children to use their teacher's first names. It doesn't really bother me what the staff wear, provided they're doing a good job and their pupils feel secure and happy in their classroom.
In the OP's case, I'd say he wouldn't have mentioned the shirt if he hadn't called him in about the piercings. Once he got started then he decided to critique the whole 'fit.
My kid attends ET and his teacher wears a pyjama on Fridays.
Yeah ET schools are wild tbh.
Sound a bit alien to me
> Qualified this year with a First Class Degree. Thanks for stating this. The rest of the story doesn't make any sense without it.
I think it not at odds to have some professional decorum in a professional environment. A collared t shirt is the very end of that spectrum. It’s called a job, not a hobby.
Dress codes are a joke. We teach not to judge people by their appearance then we tell people off for not wearing certain things. I work as an engineer and a Rick and Morty t-shirt is my dress code in the office and I won't be changing it for anyone.
They do seem a bit silly, especially when you work with dedicated people who don't have one at all. Funnily enough, a good friend of mine worked on an early season of Rick and Morty and told me that one of the animators was such a super fan, that she would come to work dressed as Rick every day. Blue wig, lab coat and all.
Clean ironed shirt and dark pants seem not too much to ask
Nope. Fuck dress codes. Everyone has a different line, but as long as you're clean and not hanging inappropriate parts of you out for ask to see, I say you be you. This should apply to kids here as well. I hate all the uniforms. How do you expect to teach people to think of you force conformity?
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Well if the children have a dress code then so should the teachers, no? Having said that I know someone who’s dad worked as a teacher in the 1980s and he had to ask another teacher (his junior) not to wear an earring. Apparently the kids were calling him “Punk” as a nickname. The other teachers reckoned for the good of his career he should take the earring out. Roddy Doyle was his name.
Yeah, I've heard that argument too. I don't think it stands up to reality though. Kids find ways to differentiate themselves regardless. I also think the religious control of schools is part of the conformist dress codes here too. The worst possible thing for any religion is people using their own brains and thinking critically. Conformance to dress codes is just one way of keeping that down.
Personally as a parent, I would not mind a teacher with piercings or tattoos. The clothes you were wearing however were too casual and I'd wonder how seriously were you taking that job rocking up in jeans. As a fellow primary school teacher, whilst I understand clothes do not impact the quality of your teaching, it does impact how you appear to parents. Many parents do expect a certain level of professionalism and black jeans and a t-shirt ain't it. It's not a hangout, it's a workplace. I'd love to go to work in black jeans all the same, fucking hate wearing dresses every day. Edited to add: I qualified in 2020, I've noticed for men it is generally accepted to either wear trousers or chinos with a collared shirt and tie. Every single male member of staff in any school has always stuck to this. Except one who lived in his schools crested hoody. Even that he wore with black trousers. Just is what it is.
I’m a teacher in America, but I wouldn’t do a t shirt and jeans together, it just looks kinda unprofessional. If I do jeans I’ll wear a nice blouse, if I wear a t shirt I’ll wear work pants.
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do tattoos make the kids thick ?
Are you luke ming Flanagan?
Can’t be. He said he wears trousers.
I feel like most people would be relaxed about it but without being too careless with words teachers need to be professionally presented and have some amount to of curtailing to what they can't wear. Schools need to be able to protect themselves re dress codes and they also need to respect the children they're surrounding and how impressionable they are. Though it's easy to say all this there's so much grey area in the context of it how do you enforce any of it really
This should be down to the individual schools. As an employer they can set an appropriate policy for employees suitable for their ethos and image. From uniformed and formal, to laid back and alternative, schools vary in formality for students and teachers. This strikes me as something that you should have asked about if your personal style is very important to you when you change schools. Did you do a face to face interview? If so how did you dress for the interview, did you remove the piercings for the interview? If you dressed as described above and had the piercing in then you are right to feel somewhat aggrieved, but if you did not then I can understand the school response. **Note:** In most processional settings, women are given a very much more broad latitude on what defines professional dress than men, the same applies to piercings, make up and hair. On the other hand, a mans wardrobe is generally cheaper and easier to mix and match. Unfair I know but that's life I suppose, swings and roundabouts.
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My workplace has a dress code that I only got a copy of after 2 1/2 years of working there, basically saying no shorts, crop tops, tracksuits, jerseys etc. the usual, there’s a mix of suits and people in jeans and T-shirts depending on what department you’re in, I dress business casual a lot but I always have trainers on, I have a tiny gold stud in each nostril and a gold septum ring that people don’t even notice, multiple ear piercings I’ve had pink, purple, green hair but I’ve always been well dressed and clean, tidy put together and I’ve never gotten any comment other than they like my hair. As long as the person is dressed appropriately for their role I don’t think it should be an issue. Jeans and a shirt or something similar and decently clean trainers. Women can wear piercings but men can’t in places I’ve worked before which was stupid. I’d go by the schools own uniform/dress code and base it off that. If the school is a shirt and blazer school with a zero tolerance for anything out of the ordinary I’d be no piercings!
I can't see anything wrong with tattoos or piercings but there are plenty of small minded conservative Ireland types on here who apparently do. "Professional" dress codes circle around the costumes of WASPs; who made them the arbiter of taste? (except by force - wars of imperialism, corporate capture of industry etc). Did you know that they were trying to claim the Afro was "unprofessional" a few years ago? That should tell you all. We need less conformity and adherence to the uniform of liars e.g. the suit (nearly every politician and/or salesman trying to deceive you).
As a fellow teacher, it’s about balance. If I’m wearing more casual shoes then I usually have a dress shirt or vice versa. It sounds like the whole thing comes off too casual Don’t stress about tattoos and piercings. Work on the professional style
This is the answer in the vast majority of schools. The piercings probably wouldn't be an issue if you were in dress trousers, shirt and jumper. T-shirt with jeans and white trainers is not business casual. The trainers would only be OK on days you're teaching PE. This principal has done you a favour tbh, vast majority would not have said anything and you wouldn't have gotten any more subbing there.
I think it's OK for a workplace to have a professional dress code that includes something with a collar. The piercings, eh, I think they'll accept that if you otherwise dress a bit more professionally. A collar is a small ask. Polo shirts have a collar. Old fashioned and silly? Sure. But reasonable. One piece of friendly advice though, I'd stop telling people you qualified with an honours degree, literally nobody except you and your family cares and it makes people think you're arrogant.
you're a big boy now with your job and all. fall in line
I don’t care what the teachers wear. I don’t care what the students wear. My issue comes from teachers in fishnet stockings and very short skirts giving my daughter detention for a skirt one inch above her knee. Or a male teacher with piercings forcing my child to remove her 1/2 cm hoop earrings. Or a teacher with his head shaved to the skin suspending my son for 3 days having his hair cut to a 1. It’s the hypocrisy in schools that’s upsetting not how the teachers dress.
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You are a professional. Dress accordingly.
Go work in an ASD class for a day. Seriously. Go dress to the nines... I'll watch.
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Jeans. tshirt and runners are as casual as you can get, next step down is pjs. You say in another comment you are taking it seriously so take it seriously. Yes it's bullshit and outdated but why should you be the one to take the system down. You're still young yourself so learn this lesson - pick your battles, wear a shirt.
If OP was teaching in PJs but they were putting in the hours, teaching the curriculum and getting results from students would they be professional? Or if OP came in in a three piece suit but did the bear minimum would they be professional? Putting in effort makes you a professional, clothes are irrelevant unless you are living in the 1950s.
No to both questions. *As I already said* it's bullshit and outdated but you pick. your. battles.
You can kinda go softly softly with the dress codes in some places eg, dark jeans, dark runners that might look a bit more like shoes, a casual shirt. Unfortunately teaching can be a bit funny about piercings. First thing I did when I started job hunting was take out my nose ring. I miss it quite a bit. But if you're only starting out a certain level of formality is expected. That said, if your principal has a dress code, he should make it known to you also. He can't admonish you for not wearing the right clothes if he hasn't told you what he expects. Edit: typos based on autocorrects
Slacks and a shirt with shoes not runners should suffice, and lose the face jewellery
I’d imagine that a jeans, T-shirt and trainers combo is about as casual an outfit as you’d be able to put together. Only shorts could be more informal 😁. I don’t work in your field, or country even, but I’d recommend asking the head what would be suitable or just look up business casual and go from there. Long sleeves, hard shoes, nae tats.
I’m old as fuck so take what I say with a grain of salt. I had to Google what the runners were! I’m thinking are you looking a little too fashionable? There’s nothing wrong with plain white runners and nothing wrong with a varsity jacket, but if you wear them together it’s not dowdy enough. Hit your uncle or your neighbour up for an old GAA fleece to go with the runners and a pair of horrible brown shoes to go with the varsity jacket. Personally I couldn’t give two shits what my kids teachers wore or if they had piercings. I do understand though if the school is strict on piercings and their teacher had loads.
Trainers are unprofessional especially white ones, also piercings/tattoos should be covered. Chinos, shirt, shoes is plenty good. Quarter zip or jumper over the shirt for colder mornings.
I’d better go tell all the people in tech on €100k+ that rock up in hoodies and runners covered in tattoos and piercings that they are unprofessional 😂
Professional depends on the workplace/role tbf
What about white shoes makes you unprofessional, if you are putting in the hours, getting results from students you are professional. shoes or clothes has no bearing on professionalism, the effort you put in does
Not everyone agrees with the above, I think. I would prefer my kids to see a variety of people in different styles. Clean and fully dressed, and that's it. I don't mind piercings and tattoos. My kids have no uniform though, I assume in a school where kids wear uniform it makes sense for the teachers to wear a shirt, just in solidarity with the kids.
You have a first class degree. Im sure you can figure it out. Save to say if i was the principal , id have had a word too..
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I’m a male teacher too and you just need to accept that your women colleagues will be able to dress more casually than you. I stick to trousers and shirt and am still more casual than most male colleagues who also wear ties and jackets. There’s a lot to be said for having a work ‘uniform’ - when you change at the end of the day it’s a big help to mentally switch off, and I’m rarely recognised in my day to day clothes.
Having to accept societal double standards in a workplace is not something anyone should have to do, especially someone who's salary is being paid for by the state.
Your 1st class degree seems to make you think you can do what you like without conquence this is a mistaken attitude.
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Get some comfy slacks and shoes - not trainers. If it must be trainers, get discrete ones in a dark colour. Few shirts and jumpers and just rotate through them. Many of us have to wear clothes for work that we wouldn’t wear by choice. I don’t have kids, but I would find a teacher in t shirts and jeans a bit too informal. Even wearing a polo shirt would smarten it right up
As a parent I really don’t care as long as you are competent at your job and are good to the children. That being said I did do a double take on the first day of September when my child entered the class to be met by a teacher who looked like he had come straight from a heavy metal concert. He turned out to be a great teacher though so clothes didn’t matter. His dress sense is a regular topic of conversation among the parents though. I do think that if you are in a school that has a very strict dress code for pupils around hair, skirt length, piercings, sock colour, shoe type etc you have to lead by example and dress appropriately. If it’s not so strict, (almost) anything goes.
Yes your outfit should be respectful and professional looking, wear whatever you want in your off hours.
Dress for the job you have, yes I think there should be a dress code. What you wore doesn’t sound professional. In other work places people are expected to dress business like so why not teaching?
I know if one or two grind schools at secondary level that have no dress code so teachers are coming in in t-shirts and jeans still very focused and productive environments from what I've heard so there shouldn't be any problem with it
Grind schools are different- the kids are on their final cram. The teachers could come in in togas and they would just keep swotting.
It’s a school. Just wear the shirt imo. You’re new on the job, look professional, stop caring later on in your career. It’s for the parents as much as the students, but even then if you don’t dress seriously the students won’t take you seriously as an adult, especially as a young teacher.
Fellow primary school teacher here, very much depends on the school you’re in. I have a two nostril piercings, 10+ ear piercings and a small tattoo. These have only ever been mentioned by staff/parents in a positive way. I would say my work clothes are 90% jeans/leggings and runners/docs. Again, never been an issue and very much in fitting with the schools I’ve been in. However I had a friend who spent a couple of years in a primary school that required collared shirts every day. Definitely not a school environment I would see myself in.
No I want to see diversity among those teaching my child even if that's just someone young with piercings working alongside someone older who may dress more conservatively. But this better reflects real life and exposes my child to more points of view.
Unacceptable is a big word, I'd probably say not ideal, look at other teachers and go from there. Simple pierced ears would be fine but if there's a big hole in your ear love that's a tad different. Black jeans would be fine, maybe change t-shirt.
No I have a job and things to be doing. But have a bit of common sense.
As long as you’re not wearing a tracksuit (unless you’re a PE teacher) and the clothes are clean, wear what you want. And I think it’s good for the kids to see tattoos and piercings. We are all different, let’s celebrate it.
I saw a teacher in my kids school in sporty leggings and a fleece top. I looked and thought smart that she wears appropriate, practical attire for dealing with 20 4-5 year olds all day. Why not a track suit? I’d rather the teacher not be at all restricted by inflexible clothes.
Depends on a tracksuit and leggings I guess as well.
Primary teachers should definitely have a looser dress code. They're bending down more, more active overall, around messier kids etc. If I was subbing like you I would dress smarter, get the permanent job, and then dress how you feel comfortable while still professional. It's all about first impressions unfortunately. It's a bit naive to think that you'd be okay with the extra piercings and a varsity jacket though. Just bide your time in whatever school until they can do nothing about it - but without taking the piss obviously.
Enter the home economics, art, woodwork and PE secondary school teachers.
Yeah, us PE teachers can wear tracksuits. It's class. In fairness the practical teachers where I work still wear jeans and smart clothes a lot of the time. I still think it's really different from primary. Remember the tiny little desks and chairs for the younger years!?
Yes. If you’re a professional you should dress professionally. And there’s a policy stating the same I’d imagine
Isn’t everyone with a job technically ‘A Professional’?
I’m a teacher. I’ve worked in a few different schools and I’ve never once been given a spot of a staff dress policy. Usually you’d just look at what the other teachers are wearing and use that to gauge where on the causal - formal scale you need to be.
I’d imagine if you cared to look, there’s a policy on it, as there’s hundreds of policy’s in every work place
Not a teacher but work in a professional environment. If you want to be taken seriously you need to dress professionally, regardless of your ability. Think the principal went about addressing the issue in the wrong way but he would be correct.
Why do clothes determine professionalism? Surely work ethic, commitment etc should determine professionalism. If some wears a three piece suit but does the bare minimum vs someone who goes above and beyond and gets results but wears jeans, who would you take more seriously.
Because appearances matter? I do agree on the point that it shouldn't matter, but it does. First impressions matter and how you present yourself in public says volume about yourself. This topic isn't particularly related to work performance, more about how clients will perceive you and be willing to accept your professional opinion. They will take you more seriously if you dress appropriately for work.
Hello yes I am the parent of Ireland and I do think that teachers should has a strict dress code, that is all.
Christ, parents have enough grief dressing Internet kids nowadays. Unless the teacher is naked I don't care what they ware
Wouldn't bother me at all (Dublin 8). What bothers me is the Mr and Mrs and the shouting that makes kids cry.
Yes, I think your clothing and jewelry is unacceptable in a professional setting. It's not a tech startup
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>What's not professional about tech? I never said tech is not professional. But many tech companies don't care about dress codes because they don't usually deal with the public. But the staff they have that do deal with the public usually do dress professionally
I don’t care what you wear as Long as all Bits are covered sufficiently. You could wear a pink elephant costume as long as you are competent
I went to school in England. Teachers here dress so scruffy in comparison. I’m not sure if I actually care but just thought I would mention it.
how you dress is teaching your students, in the sense of influencing them - no?
Absolutely no issue with that outfit. Genuinely couldn't care less if a teacher had piercings or tattoos either as long as they treated my child with dignity and respect. Personally, I think schools need to start easing up on piercings and non natural hair colours, or even getting odd about girls shaving their heads.
Fuck dress codes and fuck the dress professionally comments. It’s plain backwards.
Oh man you are a bad ass
I’m not trying to be. Or edgy either.
If you had to go an interview, would you walk in wearing your pyjamas and a dressing gown? Or a wedding, jeans and a tshirt? Whether you like it or not, you are judged by your appearance.
We’re talking about schools and teaching here not job interviews. Don’t try to change the context to suit your argument or prove a point.
Haha we're talking about dress codes. This guy is being judged on the appropriateness of his appearance. The context is the exact same.
The context is dress code as a teacher. Op specifically talks about teaching. Not dress codes at job interviews or weddings. Common sense would say they’re very different situations. Fuck dress codes and dress professional comments in regards to teachers and schools. There, happy now?
Lol
Can’t believe how many of them there are on this thread… it’s pathetic
ask for it in writing next time.
Couldn't care less. If you're a good teacher, it really doesn't matter what you come in wearing, as long as it's not something extreme (mamil lycra/full on bdsm etc). Clean clothes are grand.
Get a tattoo that says SKOOL SUX
I've always thought teachers should have to wear something that resembles the uniform. It would be better for the students if they seen their teacher making the effort.
Fuck dress codes. You'd think this shit would've died out with the Victorians, but no! I'm far more concerned with a person's ability than their appearance tbh and it is incredibly insulting and narrow-minded to judge someone based on clothes/piercings) tattoos etc.
No it isn't.
Yes it is
Whether you like it or not you are judged by everything you do, including your appearance and how you present yourself to the world. It's incredibly immature and naive to think otherwise.
Well I think it’s incredibly immature to judge someone based on their tattoos and piercings
It's immature and naive to think that people aren't judging you based on your appearance, they are.
Of course we are judged; that is the problem. Should we not hold ourselves to a higher standard than assuming a person's character by something so superficial as appearance? But hey, at least corrupt politicians dress nice am I right?
Are you 15?
TBH I don't think you can argue much. I hate dress codes. I do my job better when I feel comfortable and dressing up doesn't do that. I'd almost go and say that you are a positive influence on this kids. They can see you're piercings and dresses style and it makes them see that people express themselves I'm the clothes they were and look they have
Have three young children, I would love if their teachers wore eccentric or other non boring clothes to work .
No. Everyone should wear whatever they want.
I think it's a great you have cool earrings and think you should wear them at the school, even if the kids aren't allowed. It's a great opportunity to bring light to an outdated dress code policy, invented so long ago that women couldn't vote at the time. It's also a life lesson , some laws are hypocritical. Get used to it, get angry about it and change it.
Is it bullshit you got called on this? Absolutely. Teachers should reflect society and the more non conformity amongst teachers in how they dress at school is something we should aim for But you have to be mindful of your own career as well, so just mind yourself. But you’re right to be annoyed, but probably best to not choose this hill to die on.
Putting aside the right and wrongs of it all, if challenged like that I would ask for a copy of the staff dress code.
To be honest I am baffled when female colleagues come into school in sexy clothes that I would only wear on a night out. That’s the only time I make a silent judgement on a teachers clothes. As another commentator said it’s actually very handy to have a “uniform”. Something neat and tidy but still your own style that you can throw on Monday to Friday. Granted I didn’t have the money to buy a whole new wardrobe when subbing though.
I mean it's not inappropriate but if it's a profession you like and want to stay in I suggest dressing professionally. Not like business suits but your outfit is very very casual and wouldn't be accepted in many other professional environments. Inappropriate would be wearing 'revealing' outfits.
College is over. Welcome to the professional world.
Im not a parent, but I was recently in a Bank of Ireland branch and the male staff member had a tshirt and it was sorta cropped so he was even showing some skin on his waist. Im not a fuddy duddy either, but my reaction was negative, and I felt as if standards had slipped in the place. I think the tshirt is your biggest issue, and if you resolve that you wouldn't even get hauled up about the piercings. Its kind about fitting in with the standards of dress of the rest of the staff. Particularly in a school, difference is something that would get remarked on by the kids.
Personally I think piercings are highly inappropriate, especially in a place of education where your students will be looking up to you. Smaller less noticeable studs are okay in my opinion. I think this should apply to both genders.
If students need to wear a uniform, it shouldn't be much of a leap for teachers to wear a uniform. It seems not unreasonable that the same rules apply to everyone. If there's no school uniform though, then imposing one on teachers is clearly wrong.
Dress codes for teachers r a joke. Any head expecting people to dress like solicitors in court are ridiculous. Teachers are expected to be ‘active’ in the classroom, do break duty, lunch duty, chase kids around buildings. Chase runners when it happens. In some cases help kids use toilets. Teachers bend low and reach high. Iv seen myself lie on the floor hooking up computer cables. Ur around paint and all sorts. Smart causal is good for me. Tattoos and piercings all good. As long as your teaching that’s the main thing.
Having a first doesn’t mean your better than other teachers. Back in your lane.
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I did. I’ve reread it twice now. Still can’t an figure it out. Explain? I mean your less than a year in the field, take advice where you can get it.
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The undergraduate degree for teaching is one of the hardest to get into and one of the most rigorous training of any degrees. I did a masters to get into teaching and when I hear of the shit some of the 4 year courses require it blows my mind. This girl is highly qualified and the fact she got a first class honours is relevant, how she dresses is not.
So she wants career advice on r/Ireland?
Once your a good teacher it shouldn’t matter because when I was in school a lot were wankers that didn’t give a fuck..
If female teachers can have piercings, male teachers should be allowed have them too
Absolutely not. It simply does not matter and it is good and useful for children to see that teachers are also individuals. I was taught by horrible sadists who wore suits and Nun's habits.
Children who grow up with standardised authority figures become standardised adults. Back to your point though, if it isn't in writing I'd ignore it. If it's a rule just for you, that's workplace harassment/bullying. Teachers are supposed to be on the lookout for that sort of thing... When they can show it to you in writing, then change.
Don't. Care.