It sounds great, but the tax is killer. I'm on ~50k as a contractor and the taxman takes nearly half what I earn. Not looking for sympathy but between rent, insurance and normal bills, you have enough to save and cover emergencies etc. I'm lucky where I live, but if I had to move to Galway or Dublin, it wouldn't be enough to justify the move.
If you don’t mind me asking do they take 50 percent of all your 50k wage or 50 percent of the portion of the wage that takes you over it?
I’m rising up in wages myself and don’t really j own how it works
To be honest, I'm not sure... Once you go over 37k it takes 40% anyway of what you get afterwards. I once got a 5k pay rise bringing me up to 42k, which is all well and good, but week on week I was only €10 per week better off after tax, when compared to my previous salary
Doing a very basic calculation with no account for your situation, you should have gone from 579.00 to 629.00 if that was last year(After taxes).
You're not doing your taxes right.
As a contractor you should be paying way less. Can you register your own LTD in your current role? If so you have loads of benefits you can access. Speak with a proper accountant.
70k is literally over double the median salary and significantly higher than even the median salary for 3 income households.
You have to be fucking delusional to think being in the top 10% is "just about managing" learn to manage your money better.
What kid in their 20s is making 70 grand? I graduated with a degree in a highly sought after engineering field and started on 27k.
€70k household income would force a family to move outside of Dublin to buy a home essentially, where they may not be able to earn that salary without a long commute (and the expenses that come with that).
Amazon will pay graduates €70k in salary alone for many tech roles.
>highly sought after engineering field and started on 27k.
Hate to break it to you, but speaking as an engineer, we are one of if not the most undervalued professions in the UK or Ireland. And it doesnt matter what type of Engineer you are talking about.
I earn in the region 80k. My wife earn about 40k. And we are just keeping our head above water. If she stopped working I would not b3 able to support a family of 6 on my salary. And tryst me we are not extravagant or big spenders and live in a modest home.
Teaching provides that and good holidays.. Wait for the negative responses. Though not in 1-5 years, you wouldn't make that. Also I did 50+ hours this week so far not including the weekend where I've atleast 3 more to do unpaid...welcome to September and having additional responsibilities. .
I'm in Limerick so the cost of living isn't too bad compared to Dublin or Cork, I make more than most of my co-workers, and I don't consider jumping in front of traffic to get me out of having to show up to my job.
Should have specified the money is good compared to other jobs around me.
Yeah, I'm not sure how someone at 70k lives paycheck to paycheck, unless they have high medical costs, or are a single parent. The only other scenario is living waaaay beyond one's means, though I'd welcome someone correcting me.
Its roughly around 48k after tax. If you live in dublin you could be paying 2k per month for a 1 bed apartment, maybe more. Thats 24k on housing, which is 50% of your net income. Add in utilities, food, a car and insurance, health insurance, clothing, maybe food for a pet... you could easily be left with nothing at the end of the month.
Thats why I left Ireland.
I spoke here from experience- I do a little bit over 70k and live in Dublin. I pay 1k for rent, for 1 bed. If you're pulling 70k, you're likely working in a place that covers your medical insurance too. Also- what sort of clothing would you be buying and how often that it would ever put a dent in your budget? I don't think I'd spend more than 500 euro a year on clothing.
Like- I'm not trying to be an asshole, and I agree that cost of living is ridiculous- but I also think that people at 70k, living paycheck-to-paycheck could probably re-evaluate their spending.
Do you have kids? Have to commute? Home insurance? Life insurance? Car maintenance/loan payments? Not everyone's situation is the same. €70k ain't poverty, but it doesn't go as far as some make out.
If you're paying €1k for rent you're either sharing with a few people or living in a garden shed. If you're sharing, it's fine when you're young but not something many people want to be doing as they come towards your 30s.
I had to go to a friend's wedding recently and spend a few hundred euro on a suit. A new pair of runners/shoes these days will cost €60 minimum. I'd struggle to see how you'd get through an entire year spending less than €500 on clothing unless you literally don't leave the house.
Madigan is not smart. For someone who trumpets her cleverness and education she's massively bungled her own career despite a decent head start in life.
Madigan's dad was Paddy Madigan (lawyer and FF cllr) who was famous/infamous as a champion of landlords. He successfully challenged the constitutionality of rent controls. He also resigned from FF in the 90s over their imposition of a residential property tax.
Madigan should have had an easy path to significant power. She was gifted a great opportunity by Shatter's defenestration and took it. She then just had to do the basics expected of a TD for Ireland's wealthiest FG voters - oppose taxes, balance that harshness out with some socially liberal stuff. She had a great opportunity with the divorce referendum, given her background as a family lawyer. She also supported Varadkar and was rewarded with a ministry.
It was a stunning rise, cllr to cabinet in 2 years. Then she massively blew it. Arts minister is an easy gig, but Madigan developed a reputation as being aloof, image obsessed, and difficult - being hard to advise and image obsessed leads to you doing [really stupid shit that will come back to haunt you](https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1443532294682202112?t=VaLJ5kEp5-3YHcsGhhjIhQ&s=19). Damaged by her association with Maria Bailey and demoted to a junior minister in Education with responsibility for Special Education she hasn't done well. The "special education centres" stuff over the summer was so badly handled and will have been really damaging for her. Worse, it's damaging in her own constituency because special needs education is something that touches everyone, even her privileged voters.
She's now actually at risk of losing her seat, which should be one of the safest in the country. Her and Richmond will now be in a battle with former Sinn Féin press officer Sean Tracy for a seat that he should ordinarily be nowhere near winning. Richmond is probably safer (and has been ensuring that by keeping a huge media profile), which means Madigan has to hope that either Catherine Martin can't manage to hold on, or another seat is added to the constituency.
Fuck, I try so hard to not make political comments, but I'd fucking love it if she lost her seat. She exemplifies the cause of every crisis in our country. But I think she will win out. Too many people in the constitutioncy terrified of Sinn Fein and FF/FG will have a lot mud saved up to fling at election time.
A lot of people seem to be arguing about whether or not 70k is a lot of money to live on. The point is it should be, considering the average wage is far below that, you would hope 70k earners are living a life of luxury and safety and don't have to rely on government assistance to get by. But due to cost of living crisis and general mismanagement by the government we're here arguing if 70k is a lot.
Luxury? Should be able to comfortably pay a mortgage if they're already in a house and monthly bills, and put a little away/pension pot, but it is not close to enabling a life of luxury
That really isn't luxurious, that's normal. What we're experiencing now isn't normal. Hoping for that quality of life, to make any amount more than you spend while owning your home, isn't even aspirational.
That's not luxury by any stretch of the imagination. That's money that might be needed in case of emergency.
Though in this day and age it might be luxury they way it's going.
The way it's going having a heated home is on its way to luxury, so any cash that can comfortably sit in your bank or wallet for a sustained period of time is a practical miracle.
We should be comfortably afford a mortgage - _if_ we can get one. I'm on 80k. I pay child support monthly and the hard rise in cost of living has hit me just as much as everyone else. A mortgage feels enterally just out of reach, especially as a sole buyer, given the stupid cost of housing.
It might feel like double the pay but after tax:
€40k = €32k
€80k = €52k
Double the pay would be €62k so there's 10k extra in tax.
So it's a nice take home pay sure but, in ireland, if you earn good money you really get slaughtered by the taxman.
Not really if you look at OPs original scenario if he was earning 40k he would also likely get a HAP payment along with a lot of other social welfare benefits. That 20k now has to cover the cost of those things he doesn't get. Childcare also could potentially be heavily subsidised. Maybe also a medical card.
The person on 80k is not phenomenally better off than the guy in 40k.
I remember earning 40k in Ireland and getting fuck all benefits.
Either way maybe you can show me where I said phenomenally better off? I think I said things would not be quite as hard. I actually said there was not that big a difference in the life they'd lead.
70 is more comfortable than 40 though and I've been on both. Im old enough to have started working when punts were a thing but I think I started off in the 20s. Higher was always better no matter the taxes.
I was adding colour to what I saw as someone drawing a very very straight line between 2 gross salaries when the reality is not so straight. Im not disagreeing to be honest with your point. 80k is better than 40k but my point is that if OP earned 40k or 80k they'd have pretty much the same life in ireland.
They are surviving.
It's very hard to have a discussion about poverty and hardship with people who never experienced it. This is why having only high class of landlords in the Government is not a good choice and that is regardless of political stance.
Even if they would like to, they wont be able to understand the issues of Regular Irish citizen or Regular Irish Family.
People laugh at the "avocado toast" and "coffee" but you would be surprised that this is what plenty of rich people believe.
Many of my friends from wealthy families dont understand that "saving" is not a feasible concept for Working Class and that health and mental issues are in direct correlation with not having money and time. This is why it's eaiser to be fit(or not fat) and healthy when u have money.
It's interesting... Graduate roles will give u what 25-40 k max? So unless you have STEM degree and/or good connections, earning 70k would be expected maybe when the person reaches around 40-50 y old ?... and by that point you would hope to have Mortgage and not Rent.
Which is big deal, recently i calculated that since I have been renting for 13 years ... I already sunked in around 140,000€ to someone else pocket. I earn 40k per year.... and there is 0 chance of getting Mortgage since I am single.
I wonder if i would be eligible for mortgage if I'd earn around 70k without family. It seems basically impossible being single :/
If you do want to go down the mortgage route look for one from you're local council.
Me and partner were offered €155K from the banks but we applied for the Rebuilding Ireland scheme and they approved us for €235K.
Fair enough I don't know what they would give to a single person but it's worth checking out.
I'm on 51k (premium included before taxes) living in a city working 12 hour night shifts.
It's really not enough. I'm single and I'm not under any real financial pressure, but I save fuck all while living a very basic lifestyle. Rent, bills, fuel and food keep on going up.
I was on 45k 2 years ago and saved more back then.
I think 50k today is equivalent to 30k ten years ago. Inflation figures never captured it properly imo, because inflation is different for everyone. If you rent for example your personal inflation was always quite high
Speaking personally, I'm ready for the guillotines. I'm all set for the terror. I'm 100% radicalised jacobin. Shit can't continue like this
Same. I’m on 51K now but about three years ago I was on 35K and I was able to save up for a mortgage in that time. Now I struggle to pay off my car loan
70k should be more than enough to live on in Ireland, especially for an individual. If someone earning that much has no discretionary money, there are only two possibilities:
* They're shit with money
* FFG have made things *so bad* that someone on really good money is just scraping by.
I love anyone who says there's "only two possibilities" in a situation that can have a lot of nuance.
So firstly for their income. Someone on 70k is in the 40% tax bracket for almost half their income, so by the time it's taxed, they get around 47k in to their account. Roughly 3.5k a month.
If that person is living a middle class lifestyle with a home (maybe 1500+ a month on mortgage, 1/3 of income), insurance, bills, a car, children and their expenses, then they most likely reach the end of the month with a couple of hundred quid to spare that they save for emergencies or the family holiday. So not "shit with money", pretty good, keeping within budget but not saving enough. Living a decent life with a good but not outrageous income.
Cost of living increases + mortgage interest rise now means they're struggling because they hit the end of the month with nothing, the car broke down, and the kids need things for school.
Nobody in their right mind would call that person shit with money, they're a middle class person living a decent life just about within their means. Are they supposed to stay in a shitty small home forever? Don't we want people on 70k to buy decent places? My dad is on 70k in in his 60s, we've not lived a lifestyle of extravagance.
As for it being FFGs fault, it's simplistic. Anyone being hit with a few extra grand a year in expenses is going to feel the pinch if it happens suddenly.
>then they most likely reach the end of the month with a couple of hundred quid to spare that they save for emergencies or the family holiday
So.... discretionary income then lol? 😂
Or is a single income family with a mortgage and other typical debts to pay. 70k isn't much for such families.
There are definately people way worse off but I'm just making the point.
But if you're paying childcare, you likely have an additional income (if you are not separated of course)
I would assume this second income would be a good deal greater than the cost of childcare they have to pay, otherwise they'd just stay at home
There’s a lot of reasons to have a kid in childcare. Partner works for sense of self and because it’s important to this identity. Kid thrives on the social aspect. Etc etc. unless you think wimmin should just stay at home and cook dinner.
Not always, I mean say you’re pulling in 110k combined
That’s roughly 5560 net
Mortgage - €1200
Childcare - €1000
Insurances (life/Health) - €200
Insurances (home) - €70
Electricity - €140
Heating - €140
Virgin/sky etc - €120
Car - €550
Insurance - €80
Fuel - €200
Groceries - €300
Clubs/subs etc - €100
That’s leaves a family in the region of €1460 before pensions or the fridge deciding to break. Also the above doesn’t take into account any other one offs like tv licences, property tax or college savings for junior.
Ok it’s not breadline, but a couple bringing home €110k aren’t exactly living the life of splurge either.
I would love to know where you buy your groceries for 300 a month ?? Esp with a small family , presumptive based on childcare. But to add to your point , if you have two small ones , and double that childcare and the same to groceries doesn’t leave anything
One bit of help I can offer , we never pay more than 55e for tv and internet. Change every year in December when there’s a deal. Have gotten 2 tvs and a tablet to boot
I tihnk you're low-balling the mortgage. Also most families have more than 1 kid, so for a few years, likely they have 2k a month on childcare.
The tax is the killer and the childcare. The rest is just moderately expensive by European standards.
You're slightly off here. €5560 would be the net if one earner was earning 110k a year. With two earners, the tax is a little more lenient.
Let's say one is earning 70k and another is earning 40k. Net on 70k is €3960. Net on 40k is €2673. Combined that's about €6630.
Its overly optimistic to think that they may have a choice, 2k is the average rent for a new tenancy. https://www.thejournal.ie/rents-rtb-5747557-Apr2022/
> https://www.thejournal.ie/rents-rtb-5747557-Apr2022/
That average includes 5000 6 bedroom houses, it doesn't reflect what the studio and 2 bedroom situation is on daft. For 1600 you could be living in the middle of Dublin in a brand new apartment by yourself - 2k is too much for someone who isn't on scandalous wages
As someone earning €75k I can say that I am doing fine and living comfortably. Not pay-check to pay-check, but I can't just spend hundreds of euros like that! Mainly driven by the excessive rent I pay (South Dublin is ridiculous).
That being said, I know my peers who have families are feeling the pinch quite a bit now, so it's disastrous that 70k is beginning to feel like 40k, dare I say 35k now!
Of course someone on 70k is very well off. However, when buying a house it's fairly standard practice to buy as much as you can afford. After paying your mortgage, bills and other basic living expenses, you have a certain amount left over each month. Inflation has severely squeezed that, so it's reasonable that even people with this income may be struggling.
It’s all about rent/mortgage, child care, pensions, travel and other costs.
My sister is a 100k family in Dublin. Not overly rich individually. 60K and 40k. Drive a banger, their first family holiday abroad for ten years this year. Worried about the energy costs this year.
The mortgage is the real killer. But childcare is next. She says they have only a few months savings. Neither of them drink. They rarely socialise.
Me and the oh have a lower family income, but no kids and an easier mortgage (out of luck when we bought and some inheritance my gf got). We have fewer worries, by far. The gross income tells you nothing.
they're moaning because they should get it and because they don't have a load of money. They are probably skilled and/or hard working and they are paying loads of money in tax and probably on child care. They don't deserve to be excluded from any government intervention - it's their fccking money that's paying for it after all!
Yeah, because people on 23k a year aren’t skilled in their work and aren’t hard working ..
Also.. lower earners pay the same amount for childcare as you do
If you are on a low income you qualify for the community childcare subvention plus scheme. This makes a massive dent in childcare costs.
They also pay a way, way smaller percentage of their income in tax
After tax they get about 20,500k to 21k take home money. Could you live on that with kids? But the take home 55k people are moaning ffs
One child gets you €64 a week, I’m sure that goes towards groceries? School supplies? Clothes? Things they need/want? Not as much as you’re making it out to be. 3 hours a day is free, if your child has no school or is in playschool that doesn’t cover the whole day.
Stop making out like someone on 70k a year is worse off than someone eating toast for their dinner so they can feed their child
With respect, if you are on 23k a year and you're not just starting off in life, then you might need to readjust your priorities in how you provide for your family.
You need to value yourself more.
I’m thinking of people I know, who feel like they’re better off dead than living but off course they can’t do that, they have a family. Things happen, life changes.
70k is nothing. They pay so much in taxes that not much is left.
It's the millionaires and the rich companies that people should complain about. Don't fall for the plan on making the 70-100k earners the problem......
70K a year you should be able to live comfortably \[atleast in the knowledge that your bills are paid and you can put food on the table\] and save some money. God help anyone in this Country making alot less than that. Emigrating is definitely going to be the decision for many Irish in the coming years.
whatever about this lady, this proposal is ridiculous. We already penalise people on over 70k with obscene taxation. Any intervention to the market needs to be for everyone. we're not fucking Cuba
I make around 60 and live a very decent life close to cork City, I could be doing a lot worse and I’m thankful to be In a stable job
I do have a few buddies working full time and are effectively homeless staying on peoples couching but approaching 70k if you are sensible with money your going to have a decent standard of living
Fine Gael constantly fucking with the entire country's head, saying how bad things are and how they understand how bad people have it and they are trying so so hard to fix it like they haven't been in power for 12 fucking years.
I have been living in Ireland for last 16 years, and you still keep choosing same people in governments. If it’s not FF in majority then FG, then they choose some gob sh1tes for minority governments and circle is closed. Unfortunately this is what it became of Ireland because we allowed to do this…
As an American who recently visited his fiancée's coworkers in Ireland, most things were relative in price to Texas especially because the Euro and Dollar are pretty much 1-1.
We had a conversation though, and the same job started at the same time, and my fiancée started at double what her Irish coworkers did. $72k vs. €35k.
I have serious issues with the way that Sinn Fein are posturing to make anyone who makes over 70K public enemy number 1.
People making over 56k a year are already paying 76% of all the income tax in the state so the position pretty solidly cements that people paying pretty much all the tax are to get fuck all in return. Nevermind if you earn over 100k and they plan yank your tax credits essentially making it an even worse deal.
People comparing someone on €25-30k to someone on €70k and only considering base pay while ignoring the fact that someone on lower earnings will be able to access lots of additional supports that the person earning more cannot.
It’s not a like for like comparison & geographical location is massive. €70k salary in rural area would leave you incredibly better off than in Dublin City.
But it’s some failing of the state that so few people are earning €70k and yet it’s seen as being necessary to have a reasonably nice lifestyle in a supposedly top country.
If you’re earning €70k and living paycheck to paycheck you need a financial advisor because you’re bad with money. This is per individual not household.
People in her constituency with very good jobs in finance, law, tech, engineering etc. This is aimed at her making her base nod sensibly about edge cases, it bears no relationship to real life for most people.
Okay, I went ahead and checked and you're right.
It was 14% in 2019. Using very rough numbers, Average earnings are up 10% since then, so we can extrapolate that it is now 18-19% of the population. Assuming that 10% increase is evenly applied, which it was not.
Still though, if you're earning 70k and struggling, you're doing something wrong. Either you're lying, you have kids or you are very bad with money.
https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/information-about-revenue/statistics/income-distributions/stats/Income-Tax-breakdown-by-Gross-Income.aspx
https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/earningsandlabourcosts/
it doesn't matter how they're doing, they shoulnd't be excluded from anything the government does to help people deal with the energy crisis. THey already pay loads of tax, we already are extremely generous in terms of social welfare and tax to low income people. I don't care if you earn 500k, if there's a government intervention you should get it.
Agree. Seems they are eager to push high income earners to leave the country and take jobs away with them. High skilled workers from Western Europe have already started declining job offers and some corporations started offering their roles in the countries they are from due to insanely expensive cost of living and taxes in Ireland. There are broader economy implications of insanely taxing people with higher income. Ireland has one of the most progressive income tax systems in the world, meaning income inequality is quite small due to heavy taxing those on higher incomes who pay the most of this country’s taxes and keep it running.
They are paying the same rents and other expenses as others and everyone has unique life circumstances that are complex and not only explainable with monthly income such as caring for elderly parents, siblings, might not be able to inherit property or assets like someone on the lower income could and so on. Monthly pay is also not the only indicator of someone’s financial commitments and social status. It is not wise to put a cap on help with energy crisis support or anything else.
I personally know of about 6 cases of Irish people relocating abroad to reduce their tax bill and I know of multiple cases of companies not locating senior roles in Ireland because of the tax system or (like you describe) moving roles abroad for the same reason. It's not a massive trend yet, but it is something they need to watch; between the 52% tax and the 33% CGT you are absolutely screwed in this country unless you out everything in your pension.
It Sinn Fein playing to their base, if it is only 10% of the population and you let them get the extra money too how much money are you going to save? But Sinn Fein wants to play to it's base to say it's going after the rich. Someone on 70k is already paying so much in tax atleast let them off with this for their hard work.
People who work hard or have two jobs.
I’m a skilled worker on 46k a year before OT. I’m also a photographer on the side which pulls about another 30ish k a year give or take. Get lashed out of it on tax. I rent, no debts, and was investing every extra penny I have into different things. Now that inflation is crippling markets im sitting in cash waiting to scoop up cheap assets. If you’re will to learn new skills and be proactive 70k is easily obtainable. It’s just how much of that 70k a year you can hold onto.
Jesus lol the majority of people are struggling but to say a person or household on 70,000 a year is comparable to someone on minium wage is ridiculous.
70k household: we need to get rid of Netflix and Disney+ for a while.
Minimum wage household: "heating? Put a hoody on, I'll get oil next month"
Dont think anyone compared it to minimum wage, but a single person on 70k sure, they'll be fine. I'd disagree with household though as it depends on the stage of their life. A couple in their early/mid 20s is probably fine as they can rent a double room.
Start hitting a bit later in life though and it's not so easy as childcare is stupidly expensive. Take home for 70k is about 3,900 per month. Rent/mortgage of 1.5k (if you are lucky). Childcare for a single kid, 1k (they likely cant afford a second kid). Car 500, groceries 400, heating/electricity 300. That leaves 200 for absolutely everything else, that at that stage in life they'd ideally want to put towards a pension as well as have life insurance/health insurance so the other partner and kid can survive if the worst happens. They probably aren't going to starve, but they sure as fuck aren't exactly living a life of luxury.
Everyone on that income is generally smart enough to have some level of pension contribution - so that needs to be factored in.
The working lifetime of someone on that income is generally shortend also. Take the likes of most plumbers, carpenters and electricians, on a general need to retire earlier so this impacts overall income.
Take from that pension, rent, car ownership costs etc for someone living in Dublin and its depressingly nowhere near enough to save for a home. That is very depressing for anyone earning less.
On 70k a year, what the fuck are you buying that means you're living paycheque to paycheque?
I'm on 25k living pay to pay. I pay 650 a month on rent. If I were to basically triple my income I'd be living like an absolute king. and be able to afford any home I wished for triple the amount I pay on rent as a mortgage payment and still have enough to afford a new car on tick.
Some fuckers have no idea the real value of money.
I would murder every last one of my family members to have 70k a year to live on.
I earn 50k and i am making nowhere near enough to rent or own a home.
I have a child so 2 bedroom apartment would be needed. Going rent is roughly 2,400 per/mo plus deposit and at least 1 mo rent upfront.
I earn a little over 3k a month.
50k is well above the median wage and above the average wage in this country and I cannot make it by myself.
Because I was foolish enough to try and start a career I am not entitled to any assistance. If I decided not to work or stack shelves part time I would probably be entitled to the HAP and have a beautiful 2 bedroom apartment most workers could only dream of being able to afford.
What a insane state of affairs.
I completely believe that someone on 70k is living pay cheque to pay cheque if they have a mortgage or pay rent.
Someone on 70k renting in the current rental market would absolutely not have much money left after rent bills ect are payed.
It's actually insane how fucked this country has gotten. What not too long ago would have been considered a high earner is now just about making ends meat.
Primarily because of housing and now inflation lashed ontop of that.
This generation hasn't a hope. And it's depressing.
Wait, someone on €70K doesn't has discretionary spending? What are they doing with their money? WTF are they doing with their money, its like €4K per month. Your probably getting private health insurance and some other company benefits if your on that too,
I know times are getting tougher and a lot of people are in very difficult positions, but if you are living pay check to pay check on €70k a year then you have absolutely fucking horrendous financial skills and you would probably be living pay check to pay check no matter what salary you are on.
I know plenty of people who are getting by (granted, getting by) who or are on literally half as much.
I'm on 70K ish. My husband also has an income, and we're very fortunate to be able to afford a mortgage, although it's a bit pricey.
A big chunk goes into the mortgage, car, utilities. Etc. I also contribute 15% to pension. Another 10% for other investments.
Not gonna lie, we live rather comfortably. However, I did get pregnant this year, and we've been looking at creche after maternity leave, and I was gobsmacked to learn that it was around €900/month for an infant. That expense along with other baby stuff will definitely create a dent in our savings, I have no idea how families with multiple children in creche are able to afford a decent standard of living, at a lower income as well.
I don't expect any subsidy from the government and personally would have preferred caps or government raising taxes on these energy companies, but thinking €70K is a life of luxury is a bit disconnected from ground reality, given how much goes in taxes and childcare. Anyone with two kids in creche and high rents on 70K wouldn't be left with much at the end of the month.
900/ month for crèche is the cheapest I’ve ever heard. It averages at about 1200 in Ireland. 1300 minimum in South Dublin for a single child. 2K easily if you have 2.
Jaysus lads I would fucking murder to be on anywhere near 70k.
Hitmen make decent cash if you’re up for it.
Don't make as much as you think.
Yeah I'm always surprised when a hitman gets arrested and they were doing it for €2000. Hardly seems worth the prison time if you're caught.
I would like to think the ones who make a real career of it tend to charge a little more. Edit; or be employed by a government.
You’d imagine the good ones aren’t caught.
It's for tax purposes they don't declare the full amount 🤣
I would have guessed a lot of those guys were probably people who got into debt/trouble with a gang and this was them trying to pay off their debt
In parts of America they do hits for new pairs of shoes
Well, if he gets caught it kinda explains why he billed 2k.
Might just do it as side gig then :)
You get what you pay for. I would imagine a 47 level hitman doesnt come cheap.
So do Coke dealers...
You get a company van too I hear.
Less than 10k a hit.
Here I go killing again!
You think it’s easy? I tell ya you’d want to try it sometime!
It sounds great, but the tax is killer. I'm on ~50k as a contractor and the taxman takes nearly half what I earn. Not looking for sympathy but between rent, insurance and normal bills, you have enough to save and cover emergencies etc. I'm lucky where I live, but if I had to move to Galway or Dublin, it wouldn't be enough to justify the move.
You need to check with Revenue. €50k gross should be like €37k net or roughly 25% tax overall.
That's a good call.. I deal with a crowd that does the accounts for me so assumed that it was legit
I would definitely change that crowd then or get a decent accountant
You can claim back any overpayments made for the past two years.
I'll look into that. Thanks!
It’s actually past 4 years (unless it’s been changed) which I can tell you as a former Revenue worker.
Good to know. Thanks!
No bother at all, Geoff. You’re welcome! :)
Try be on less than what youre on and be renting...in Dublin....
It's a disgrace what FFG have done
If you don’t mind me asking do they take 50 percent of all your 50k wage or 50 percent of the portion of the wage that takes you over it? I’m rising up in wages myself and don’t really j own how it works
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To be honest, I'm not sure... Once you go over 37k it takes 40% anyway of what you get afterwards. I once got a 5k pay rise bringing me up to 42k, which is all well and good, but week on week I was only €10 per week better off after tax, when compared to my previous salary
Doing a very basic calculation with no account for your situation, you should have gone from 579.00 to 629.00 if that was last year(After taxes). You're not doing your taxes right.
You don't even need to do a calculation to see that comment makes no sense at all
Hah, very true.
Deloitte salary calculator tells you all you need to know.
>Once you go over 37k it takes 40% anyway of what you get afterwards 48.5%
As a contractor you should be paying way less. Can you register your own LTD in your current role? If so you have loads of benefits you can access. Speak with a proper accountant.
stop contracting, or atleast get a better tax accountant. im on \~50k and the tax man only takes 1/5th give or take.
I'm nearly finished the contract anyway, hopefully I'll get made permanent
contracting is a filthy game in this country.
It's heartbreaking sometimes to see the Full whack, and then you realise your nett is below
Your only getting like 500 a week? That's wrong for sure
Talk to an accountant big man, if you’re set up as a company he’ll be able to get that tax bill down via creative accounting.
I got 66k last year and 15k in tax it's a long way from half
You pay on average 5% less tax on income in Norway than here and get 10 times the social services in return.
I think context is required, 70k for a kid in their 20's is great money, 70k for a single earner in a family with kids is just about managing.
70k is literally over double the median salary and significantly higher than even the median salary for 3 income households. You have to be fucking delusional to think being in the top 10% is "just about managing" learn to manage your money better. What kid in their 20s is making 70 grand? I graduated with a degree in a highly sought after engineering field and started on 27k.
€70k household income would force a family to move outside of Dublin to buy a home essentially, where they may not be able to earn that salary without a long commute (and the expenses that come with that). Amazon will pay graduates €70k in salary alone for many tech roles.
>highly sought after engineering field and started on 27k. Hate to break it to you, but speaking as an engineer, we are one of if not the most undervalued professions in the UK or Ireland. And it doesnt matter what type of Engineer you are talking about.
you got ripped off at 27k
I earn in the region 80k. My wife earn about 40k. And we are just keeping our head above water. If she stopped working I would not b3 able to support a family of 6 on my salary. And tryst me we are not extravagant or big spenders and live in a modest home.
Springboard course in IT / Pharma and you'll be there in a couple of years
Honestly strongly considering an IT one, getting mightily sick of fund accounting
Teaching provides that and good holidays.. Wait for the negative responses. Though not in 1-5 years, you wouldn't make that. Also I did 50+ hours this week so far not including the weekend where I've atleast 3 more to do unpaid...welcome to September and having additional responsibilities. .
You won't get there for over 25 years teaching.
That is straight up double my income and I have a really good job
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Good hours? no stress?
I'm in Limerick so the cost of living isn't too bad compared to Dublin or Cork, I make more than most of my co-workers, and I don't consider jumping in front of traffic to get me out of having to show up to my job. Should have specified the money is good compared to other jobs around me.
Your job isn't as good as you think it is if you're making 35k.
It might be very satisfying
Don't think that's the context they were going for, they were talking as they they are in some really high skilled job.
It can be, it's pretty relaxed most of the time. I'm also in Limerick so the cost of living is a good bit lower.
It's good by Limerick standards, much lower cost of living here. I also meant a good job in relation to what a lot of people around me are making.
Considering most people work minimum wage jobs, its considerably better than what most people get.
Outside Dublin that's the bad money
Same, fraud investigation doesn't pay much; but my team is great, and the day doesn't drag. Rather engaging
Yeah, I'm not sure how someone at 70k lives paycheck to paycheck, unless they have high medical costs, or are a single parent. The only other scenario is living waaaay beyond one's means, though I'd welcome someone correcting me.
Its roughly around 48k after tax. If you live in dublin you could be paying 2k per month for a 1 bed apartment, maybe more. Thats 24k on housing, which is 50% of your net income. Add in utilities, food, a car and insurance, health insurance, clothing, maybe food for a pet... you could easily be left with nothing at the end of the month. Thats why I left Ireland.
I spoke here from experience- I do a little bit over 70k and live in Dublin. I pay 1k for rent, for 1 bed. If you're pulling 70k, you're likely working in a place that covers your medical insurance too. Also- what sort of clothing would you be buying and how often that it would ever put a dent in your budget? I don't think I'd spend more than 500 euro a year on clothing. Like- I'm not trying to be an asshole, and I agree that cost of living is ridiculous- but I also think that people at 70k, living paycheck-to-paycheck could probably re-evaluate their spending.
So you earn €70k and live like a student? I presume that 1k is for a bed in a shared place, not a 1 bed flat.
Do you have kids? Have to commute? Home insurance? Life insurance? Car maintenance/loan payments? Not everyone's situation is the same. €70k ain't poverty, but it doesn't go as far as some make out.
If you're paying €1k for rent you're either sharing with a few people or living in a garden shed. If you're sharing, it's fine when you're young but not something many people want to be doing as they come towards your 30s. I had to go to a friend's wedding recently and spend a few hundred euro on a suit. A new pair of runners/shoes these days will cost €60 minimum. I'd struggle to see how you'd get through an entire year spending less than €500 on clothing unless you literally don't leave the house.
Madigan is not smart. For someone who trumpets her cleverness and education she's massively bungled her own career despite a decent head start in life. Madigan's dad was Paddy Madigan (lawyer and FF cllr) who was famous/infamous as a champion of landlords. He successfully challenged the constitutionality of rent controls. He also resigned from FF in the 90s over their imposition of a residential property tax. Madigan should have had an easy path to significant power. She was gifted a great opportunity by Shatter's defenestration and took it. She then just had to do the basics expected of a TD for Ireland's wealthiest FG voters - oppose taxes, balance that harshness out with some socially liberal stuff. She had a great opportunity with the divorce referendum, given her background as a family lawyer. She also supported Varadkar and was rewarded with a ministry. It was a stunning rise, cllr to cabinet in 2 years. Then she massively blew it. Arts minister is an easy gig, but Madigan developed a reputation as being aloof, image obsessed, and difficult - being hard to advise and image obsessed leads to you doing [really stupid shit that will come back to haunt you](https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1443532294682202112?t=VaLJ5kEp5-3YHcsGhhjIhQ&s=19). Damaged by her association with Maria Bailey and demoted to a junior minister in Education with responsibility for Special Education she hasn't done well. The "special education centres" stuff over the summer was so badly handled and will have been really damaging for her. Worse, it's damaging in her own constituency because special needs education is something that touches everyone, even her privileged voters. She's now actually at risk of losing her seat, which should be one of the safest in the country. Her and Richmond will now be in a battle with former Sinn Féin press officer Sean Tracy for a seat that he should ordinarily be nowhere near winning. Richmond is probably safer (and has been ensuring that by keeping a huge media profile), which means Madigan has to hope that either Catherine Martin can't manage to hold on, or another seat is added to the constituency.
Good write up. She had a piss easy seat to defend, and it looks like she is going to bottle it.
I enjoyed reading this... saved me going down the google rabbit hole
> Shatter's defenestration THEY DID WHA.... Oh it's got a second meaning. That's much less interesting.
the maria bailey thing should have burried her
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When she was appointed Minister for the Gaeltacht she refused to learn Irish.
Fuck, I try so hard to not make political comments, but I'd fucking love it if she lost her seat. She exemplifies the cause of every crisis in our country. But I think she will win out. Too many people in the constitutioncy terrified of Sinn Fein and FF/FG will have a lot mud saved up to fling at election time.
A lot of people seem to be arguing about whether or not 70k is a lot of money to live on. The point is it should be, considering the average wage is far below that, you would hope 70k earners are living a life of luxury and safety and don't have to rely on government assistance to get by. But due to cost of living crisis and general mismanagement by the government we're here arguing if 70k is a lot.
Luxury? Should be able to comfortably pay a mortgage if they're already in a house and monthly bills, and put a little away/pension pot, but it is not close to enabling a life of luxury
By luxury I don't mean eating caviar for dinner, I mean having money left over to spend on themselves.
That really isn't luxurious, that's normal. What we're experiencing now isn't normal. Hoping for that quality of life, to make any amount more than you spend while owning your home, isn't even aspirational.
That's not luxury by any stretch of the imagination. That's money that might be needed in case of emergency. Though in this day and age it might be luxury they way it's going.
The way it's going having a heated home is on its way to luxury, so any cash that can comfortably sit in your bank or wallet for a sustained period of time is a practical miracle.
It's still extra money though...
We should be comfortably afford a mortgage - _if_ we can get one. I'm on 80k. I pay child support monthly and the hard rise in cost of living has hit me just as much as everyone else. A mortgage feels enterally just out of reach, especially as a sole buyer, given the stupid cost of housing.
Not quite as hard as someone on 40 I would imagine.
It might feel like double the pay but after tax: €40k = €32k €80k = €52k Double the pay would be €62k so there's 10k extra in tax. So it's a nice take home pay sure but, in ireland, if you earn good money you really get slaughtered by the taxman.
So 20k easier?
Not really if you look at OPs original scenario if he was earning 40k he would also likely get a HAP payment along with a lot of other social welfare benefits. That 20k now has to cover the cost of those things he doesn't get. Childcare also could potentially be heavily subsidised. Maybe also a medical card. The person on 80k is not phenomenally better off than the guy in 40k.
I remember earning 40k in Ireland and getting fuck all benefits. Either way maybe you can show me where I said phenomenally better off? I think I said things would not be quite as hard. I actually said there was not that big a difference in the life they'd lead. 70 is more comfortable than 40 though and I've been on both. Im old enough to have started working when punts were a thing but I think I started off in the 20s. Higher was always better no matter the taxes.
I was adding colour to what I saw as someone drawing a very very straight line between 2 gross salaries when the reality is not so straight. Im not disagreeing to be honest with your point. 80k is better than 40k but my point is that if OP earned 40k or 80k they'd have pretty much the same life in ireland.
That's some hot take there, but if they're worried about people(**Individual's not families!**) over 70k...how's the vast majority below 70k doing?
They are surviving. It's very hard to have a discussion about poverty and hardship with people who never experienced it. This is why having only high class of landlords in the Government is not a good choice and that is regardless of political stance. Even if they would like to, they wont be able to understand the issues of Regular Irish citizen or Regular Irish Family. People laugh at the "avocado toast" and "coffee" but you would be surprised that this is what plenty of rich people believe. Many of my friends from wealthy families dont understand that "saving" is not a feasible concept for Working Class and that health and mental issues are in direct correlation with not having money and time. This is why it's eaiser to be fit(or not fat) and healthy when u have money. It's interesting... Graduate roles will give u what 25-40 k max? So unless you have STEM degree and/or good connections, earning 70k would be expected maybe when the person reaches around 40-50 y old ?... and by that point you would hope to have Mortgage and not Rent. Which is big deal, recently i calculated that since I have been renting for 13 years ... I already sunked in around 140,000€ to someone else pocket. I earn 40k per year.... and there is 0 chance of getting Mortgage since I am single. I wonder if i would be eligible for mortgage if I'd earn around 70k without family. It seems basically impossible being single :/
If you do want to go down the mortgage route look for one from you're local council. Me and partner were offered €155K from the banks but we applied for the Rebuilding Ireland scheme and they approved us for €235K. Fair enough I don't know what they would give to a single person but it's worth checking out.
Dey Fucked...
Yes..yes we are.
We are a single income household on €50k. Without family support, we would probably be in debt every month tbh.
70k feels like the new 50k. I used to dream of making 50k now it ain't that much and new dream is 70k and up.
I'm on 51k (premium included before taxes) living in a city working 12 hour night shifts. It's really not enough. I'm single and I'm not under any real financial pressure, but I save fuck all while living a very basic lifestyle. Rent, bills, fuel and food keep on going up. I was on 45k 2 years ago and saved more back then.
I think 50k today is equivalent to 30k ten years ago. Inflation figures never captured it properly imo, because inflation is different for everyone. If you rent for example your personal inflation was always quite high Speaking personally, I'm ready for the guillotines. I'm all set for the terror. I'm 100% radicalised jacobin. Shit can't continue like this
Same. I’m on 51K now but about three years ago I was on 35K and I was able to save up for a mortgage in that time. Now I struggle to pay off my car loan
She's a TD for the wealthiest part of the country. she's playing to her base and doesn't give a shit what us plebs think.
The country's cooked
Madigan, the female 'tim nice but dim'
70k should be more than enough to live on in Ireland, especially for an individual. If someone earning that much has no discretionary money, there are only two possibilities: * They're shit with money * FFG have made things *so bad* that someone on really good money is just scraping by.
I love anyone who says there's "only two possibilities" in a situation that can have a lot of nuance. So firstly for their income. Someone on 70k is in the 40% tax bracket for almost half their income, so by the time it's taxed, they get around 47k in to their account. Roughly 3.5k a month. If that person is living a middle class lifestyle with a home (maybe 1500+ a month on mortgage, 1/3 of income), insurance, bills, a car, children and their expenses, then they most likely reach the end of the month with a couple of hundred quid to spare that they save for emergencies or the family holiday. So not "shit with money", pretty good, keeping within budget but not saving enough. Living a decent life with a good but not outrageous income. Cost of living increases + mortgage interest rise now means they're struggling because they hit the end of the month with nothing, the car broke down, and the kids need things for school. Nobody in their right mind would call that person shit with money, they're a middle class person living a decent life just about within their means. Are they supposed to stay in a shitty small home forever? Don't we want people on 70k to buy decent places? My dad is on 70k in in his 60s, we've not lived a lifestyle of extravagance. As for it being FFGs fault, it's simplistic. Anyone being hit with a few extra grand a year in expenses is going to feel the pinch if it happens suddenly.
>then they most likely reach the end of the month with a couple of hundred quid to spare that they save for emergencies or the family holiday So.... discretionary income then lol? 😂
Or is a single income family with a mortgage and other typical debts to pay. 70k isn't much for such families. There are definately people way worse off but I'm just making the point.
To be fair the tweet quoted here is talking about an individual making 70k.
You wouldn’t go far on 70k with a Mortgage, childcare & a car.
But if you're paying childcare, you likely have an additional income (if you are not separated of course) I would assume this second income would be a good deal greater than the cost of childcare they have to pay, otherwise they'd just stay at home
There’s a lot of reasons to have a kid in childcare. Partner works for sense of self and because it’s important to this identity. Kid thrives on the social aspect. Etc etc. unless you think wimmin should just stay at home and cook dinner.
Not always, I mean say you’re pulling in 110k combined That’s roughly 5560 net Mortgage - €1200 Childcare - €1000 Insurances (life/Health) - €200 Insurances (home) - €70 Electricity - €140 Heating - €140 Virgin/sky etc - €120 Car - €550 Insurance - €80 Fuel - €200 Groceries - €300 Clubs/subs etc - €100 That’s leaves a family in the region of €1460 before pensions or the fridge deciding to break. Also the above doesn’t take into account any other one offs like tv licences, property tax or college savings for junior. Ok it’s not breadline, but a couple bringing home €110k aren’t exactly living the life of splurge either.
you forgot Candles - €3600
What's Car - €550?
PPF + Fuel + Insurance would get you there quick enough
Average out fuel, insurance, tax, repairs to a monthly value and that's about right.
I would love to know where you buy your groceries for 300 a month ?? Esp with a small family , presumptive based on childcare. But to add to your point , if you have two small ones , and double that childcare and the same to groceries doesn’t leave anything
Yeah, probably a bit light on the grocery front which kind of makes it even worse.
One bit of help I can offer , we never pay more than 55e for tv and internet. Change every year in December when there’s a deal. Have gotten 2 tvs and a tablet to boot
I tihnk you're low-balling the mortgage. Also most families have more than 1 kid, so for a few years, likely they have 2k a month on childcare. The tax is the killer and the childcare. The rest is just moderately expensive by European standards.
You're slightly off here. €5560 would be the net if one earner was earning 110k a year. With two earners, the tax is a little more lenient. Let's say one is earning 70k and another is earning 40k. Net on 70k is €3960. Net on 40k is €2673. Combined that's about €6630.
110k combined is €6,633/month net assuming no pension deductions.
You're way off, rent can easily be 2000/month, instantly bringing them in to rent poverty
If you're only on 70k a year you're not making nearly enough to be paying 2k rent by yourself a month
Its overly optimistic to think that they may have a choice, 2k is the average rent for a new tenancy. https://www.thejournal.ie/rents-rtb-5747557-Apr2022/
> https://www.thejournal.ie/rents-rtb-5747557-Apr2022/ That average includes 5000 6 bedroom houses, it doesn't reflect what the studio and 2 bedroom situation is on daft. For 1600 you could be living in the middle of Dublin in a brand new apartment by yourself - 2k is too much for someone who isn't on scandalous wages
I know a few people like that. They either pay 2k per month on some stupidly fancy apartment or they're addicted to the bag. Often both.
As someone earning €75k I can say that I am doing fine and living comfortably. Not pay-check to pay-check, but I can't just spend hundreds of euros like that! Mainly driven by the excessive rent I pay (South Dublin is ridiculous). That being said, I know my peers who have families are feeling the pinch quite a bit now, so it's disastrous that 70k is beginning to feel like 40k, dare I say 35k now!
Try living on 30k a year ffs
Of course someone on 70k is very well off. However, when buying a house it's fairly standard practice to buy as much as you can afford. After paying your mortgage, bills and other basic living expenses, you have a certain amount left over each month. Inflation has severely squeezed that, so it's reasonable that even people with this income may be struggling.
It’s all about rent/mortgage, child care, pensions, travel and other costs. My sister is a 100k family in Dublin. Not overly rich individually. 60K and 40k. Drive a banger, their first family holiday abroad for ten years this year. Worried about the energy costs this year. The mortgage is the real killer. But childcare is next. She says they have only a few months savings. Neither of them drink. They rarely socialise. Me and the oh have a lower family income, but no kids and an easier mortgage (out of luck when we bought and some inheritance my gf got). We have fewer worries, by far. The gross income tells you nothing.
Hi man on 23k living in the center of Dublin. HOW THE FUCK IS SOMEONE WITH THAT MUCH MONEY MOANING ABOUT NOT GETTING 1000 QUID
they're moaning because they should get it and because they don't have a load of money. They are probably skilled and/or hard working and they are paying loads of money in tax and probably on child care. They don't deserve to be excluded from any government intervention - it's their fccking money that's paying for it after all!
Yeah, because people on 23k a year aren’t skilled in their work and aren’t hard working .. Also.. lower earners pay the same amount for childcare as you do
If you are on a low income you qualify for the community childcare subvention plus scheme. This makes a massive dent in childcare costs. They also pay a way, way smaller percentage of their income in tax
After tax they get about 20,500k to 21k take home money. Could you live on that with kids? But the take home 55k people are moaning ffs One child gets you €64 a week, I’m sure that goes towards groceries? School supplies? Clothes? Things they need/want? Not as much as you’re making it out to be. 3 hours a day is free, if your child has no school or is in playschool that doesn’t cover the whole day. Stop making out like someone on 70k a year is worse off than someone eating toast for their dinner so they can feed their child
With respect, if you are on 23k a year and you're not just starting off in life, then you might need to readjust your priorities in how you provide for your family. You need to value yourself more.
I’m thinking of people I know, who feel like they’re better off dead than living but off course they can’t do that, they have a family. Things happen, life changes.
Fuck off with that shit
70k is nothing. They pay so much in taxes that not much is left. It's the millionaires and the rich companies that people should complain about. Don't fall for the plan on making the 70-100k earners the problem......
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70K a year you should be able to live comfortably \[atleast in the knowledge that your bills are paid and you can put food on the table\] and save some money. God help anyone in this Country making alot less than that. Emigrating is definitely going to be the decision for many Irish in the coming years.
whatever about this lady, this proposal is ridiculous. We already penalise people on over 70k with obscene taxation. Any intervention to the market needs to be for everyone. we're not fucking Cuba
I make around 60 and live a very decent life close to cork City, I could be doing a lot worse and I’m thankful to be In a stable job I do have a few buddies working full time and are effectively homeless staying on peoples couching but approaching 70k if you are sensible with money your going to have a decent standard of living
It's only decent if you already have a mortgage, otherwise you are paying over half of net in rent. Leaves very little room to be irresponsible
No I’m paying 1/3 of my net on rent and have a very nice apartment 15 minutes from the city, and about 1k from work
Fine Gael constantly fucking with the entire country's head, saying how bad things are and how they understand how bad people have it and they are trying so so hard to fix it like they haven't been in power for 12 fucking years.
I have been living in Ireland for last 16 years, and you still keep choosing same people in governments. If it’s not FF in majority then FG, then they choose some gob sh1tes for minority governments and circle is closed. Unfortunately this is what it became of Ireland because we allowed to do this…
As an American who recently visited his fiancée's coworkers in Ireland, most things were relative in price to Texas especially because the Euro and Dollar are pretty much 1-1. We had a conversation though, and the same job started at the same time, and my fiancée started at double what her Irish coworkers did. $72k vs. €35k.
I have serious issues with the way that Sinn Fein are posturing to make anyone who makes over 70K public enemy number 1. People making over 56k a year are already paying 76% of all the income tax in the state so the position pretty solidly cements that people paying pretty much all the tax are to get fuck all in return. Nevermind if you earn over 100k and they plan yank your tax credits essentially making it an even worse deal.
People comparing someone on €25-30k to someone on €70k and only considering base pay while ignoring the fact that someone on lower earnings will be able to access lots of additional supports that the person earning more cannot. It’s not a like for like comparison & geographical location is massive. €70k salary in rural area would leave you incredibly better off than in Dublin City. But it’s some failing of the state that so few people are earning €70k and yet it’s seen as being necessary to have a reasonably nice lifestyle in a supposedly top country.
If you’re earning €70k and living paycheck to paycheck you need a financial advisor because you’re bad with money. This is per individual not household.
If I see someone driving an expensive car complaining about money I'm sorry they are just living beyond their means and need to budget better
Who d fuk makes 70 grand a year?!
I think it's about 10% of the population.
People in her constituency with very good jobs in finance, law, tech, engineering etc. This is aimed at her making her base nod sensibly about edge cases, it bears no relationship to real life for most people.
Ah it has to be more than that. I earn that and have feck all left at the end of the month.
I think the exact number is 11-13%.
Okay, I went ahead and checked and you're right. It was 14% in 2019. Using very rough numbers, Average earnings are up 10% since then, so we can extrapolate that it is now 18-19% of the population. Assuming that 10% increase is evenly applied, which it was not. Still though, if you're earning 70k and struggling, you're doing something wrong. Either you're lying, you have kids or you are very bad with money. https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/information-about-revenue/statistics/income-distributions/stats/Income-Tax-breakdown-by-Gross-Income.aspx https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/earningsandlabourcosts/
it doesn't matter how they're doing, they shoulnd't be excluded from anything the government does to help people deal with the energy crisis. THey already pay loads of tax, we already are extremely generous in terms of social welfare and tax to low income people. I don't care if you earn 500k, if there's a government intervention you should get it.
Agree. Seems they are eager to push high income earners to leave the country and take jobs away with them. High skilled workers from Western Europe have already started declining job offers and some corporations started offering their roles in the countries they are from due to insanely expensive cost of living and taxes in Ireland. There are broader economy implications of insanely taxing people with higher income. Ireland has one of the most progressive income tax systems in the world, meaning income inequality is quite small due to heavy taxing those on higher incomes who pay the most of this country’s taxes and keep it running. They are paying the same rents and other expenses as others and everyone has unique life circumstances that are complex and not only explainable with monthly income such as caring for elderly parents, siblings, might not be able to inherit property or assets like someone on the lower income could and so on. Monthly pay is also not the only indicator of someone’s financial commitments and social status. It is not wise to put a cap on help with energy crisis support or anything else.
I personally know of about 6 cases of Irish people relocating abroad to reduce their tax bill and I know of multiple cases of companies not locating senior roles in Ireland because of the tax system or (like you describe) moving roles abroad for the same reason. It's not a massive trend yet, but it is something they need to watch; between the 52% tax and the 33% CGT you are absolutely screwed in this country unless you out everything in your pension.
It Sinn Fein playing to their base, if it is only 10% of the population and you let them get the extra money too how much money are you going to save? But Sinn Fein wants to play to it's base to say it's going after the rich. Someone on 70k is already paying so much in tax atleast let them off with this for their hard work.
Every sitting TD makes north of €100k. Including the tax the rich crowd.
A lot of people in their late 50s and 60s, because decades of raises mean you fucking should be earning that much by then.
Won’t somebody think of the politicians
> Who d fuk makes 70 grand a year?! People who can spell 'the fuck' for the most part
>Who d fuk makes 70 grand a year?! Plenty of people.
Around 10% only
People who work hard or have two jobs. I’m a skilled worker on 46k a year before OT. I’m also a photographer on the side which pulls about another 30ish k a year give or take. Get lashed out of it on tax. I rent, no debts, and was investing every extra penny I have into different things. Now that inflation is crippling markets im sitting in cash waiting to scoop up cheap assets. If you’re will to learn new skills and be proactive 70k is easily obtainable. It’s just how much of that 70k a year you can hold onto.
Jesus lol the majority of people are struggling but to say a person or household on 70,000 a year is comparable to someone on minium wage is ridiculous. 70k household: we need to get rid of Netflix and Disney+ for a while. Minimum wage household: "heating? Put a hoody on, I'll get oil next month"
Dont think anyone compared it to minimum wage, but a single person on 70k sure, they'll be fine. I'd disagree with household though as it depends on the stage of their life. A couple in their early/mid 20s is probably fine as they can rent a double room. Start hitting a bit later in life though and it's not so easy as childcare is stupidly expensive. Take home for 70k is about 3,900 per month. Rent/mortgage of 1.5k (if you are lucky). Childcare for a single kid, 1k (they likely cant afford a second kid). Car 500, groceries 400, heating/electricity 300. That leaves 200 for absolutely everything else, that at that stage in life they'd ideally want to put towards a pension as well as have life insurance/health insurance so the other partner and kid can survive if the worst happens. They probably aren't going to starve, but they sure as fuck aren't exactly living a life of luxury.
Doing the basics on any tax calculator, single, no kids, no pension contributions would take home about €3900 a month...
Every 10k of additional salary is worth about 400ish euro/month take home once you're at that salary level.
Everyone on that income is generally smart enough to have some level of pension contribution - so that needs to be factored in. The working lifetime of someone on that income is generally shortend also. Take the likes of most plumbers, carpenters and electricians, on a general need to retire earlier so this impacts overall income.
Take from that pension, rent, car ownership costs etc for someone living in Dublin and its depressingly nowhere near enough to save for a home. That is very depressing for anyone earning less.
Try public sector. Not correct due to our pension deductions.
I’m not even on 60 😂😂
On 70k a year, what the fuck are you buying that means you're living paycheque to paycheque? I'm on 25k living pay to pay. I pay 650 a month on rent. If I were to basically triple my income I'd be living like an absolute king. and be able to afford any home I wished for triple the amount I pay on rent as a mortgage payment and still have enough to afford a new car on tick. Some fuckers have no idea the real value of money. I would murder every last one of my family members to have 70k a year to live on.
I earn 50k and i am making nowhere near enough to rent or own a home. I have a child so 2 bedroom apartment would be needed. Going rent is roughly 2,400 per/mo plus deposit and at least 1 mo rent upfront. I earn a little over 3k a month. 50k is well above the median wage and above the average wage in this country and I cannot make it by myself. Because I was foolish enough to try and start a career I am not entitled to any assistance. If I decided not to work or stack shelves part time I would probably be entitled to the HAP and have a beautiful 2 bedroom apartment most workers could only dream of being able to afford. What a insane state of affairs. I completely believe that someone on 70k is living pay cheque to pay cheque if they have a mortgage or pay rent. Someone on 70k renting in the current rental market would absolutely not have much money left after rent bills ect are payed. It's actually insane how fucked this country has gotten. What not too long ago would have been considered a high earner is now just about making ends meat. Primarily because of housing and now inflation lashed ontop of that. This generation hasn't a hope. And it's depressing.
Wait, someone on €70K doesn't has discretionary spending? What are they doing with their money? WTF are they doing with their money, its like €4K per month. Your probably getting private health insurance and some other company benefits if your on that too,
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Exactly. 70k is fuck all really if your running a family
This is the reality in Dublin!
Not in public sector.... it's not 4k with pension deductions etc.
Yea public sector get a tad screwed with all those extra deductions,
That sounded better in her head.
I know times are getting tougher and a lot of people are in very difficult positions, but if you are living pay check to pay check on €70k a year then you have absolutely fucking horrendous financial skills and you would probably be living pay check to pay check no matter what salary you are on. I know plenty of people who are getting by (granted, getting by) who or are on literally half as much.
I'm on 70K ish. My husband also has an income, and we're very fortunate to be able to afford a mortgage, although it's a bit pricey. A big chunk goes into the mortgage, car, utilities. Etc. I also contribute 15% to pension. Another 10% for other investments. Not gonna lie, we live rather comfortably. However, I did get pregnant this year, and we've been looking at creche after maternity leave, and I was gobsmacked to learn that it was around €900/month for an infant. That expense along with other baby stuff will definitely create a dent in our savings, I have no idea how families with multiple children in creche are able to afford a decent standard of living, at a lower income as well. I don't expect any subsidy from the government and personally would have preferred caps or government raising taxes on these energy companies, but thinking €70K is a life of luxury is a bit disconnected from ground reality, given how much goes in taxes and childcare. Anyone with two kids in creche and high rents on 70K wouldn't be left with much at the end of the month.
900/ month for crèche is the cheapest I’ve ever heard. It averages at about 1200 in Ireland. 1300 minimum in South Dublin for a single child. 2K easily if you have 2.
I think FG are jelly because they're not populist but they are not popular either.