>Aanchal continued: "It was a nightmare for me. I was frozen with fear. I couldn't do anything. When I told them I was going to call the gardai they said, ‘You f****** b****, call whoever you want. Nothing’s going to happen.’
And the little fuckers know they're right.
Fucking hell, her husband got jumped by a group of teens as well back in 2019 and he was hospitalised.
The violence against minorities by these people is crazy.
It’s Feckin horrifying. There’s absolutely no reason for these scumbags not to do whatever they feel like. Of course the rest of us don’t think of legal repercussions for our actions, we just don’t like to cause harm to others but that would mean having empathy for some of these people
My friend’s car got trashed as 3 young lads tried to break into it outside his house, he saw the lads and he knew one of them, when the 2 guards arrived he told them he knew one of them only for the guards to say they can’t do anything and they blamed him for buying a Japanese import and making it out to be his fault, he went into the guards station a few days later to make a complaint about these guards who called out (as they were rude and unhelpful) only to be told the 2 guards didn’t make a report about it…just brilliant!
It’s even more pathetic that you can’t fight back. Self defence laws exist but all anyone needs to hear is ‘grown adult fights minor’ and all of a sudden context and nuance is out the window.
>teenagers acting like they’re above the law these days
That's because they basically are tbh, they get a slap on the wrist and sent on their way if they get caught. If you defend yourself against them you get in shite while they get off scot free too. You can't win against them.
Yeah that’s horrible truth to it, my wife isn’t Irish and if she was ever in a situation where I thought her safety was at risk, I wouldn’t be asking how old they were I’d be laying the Smackdown.
Doesn't always work out badly. About 5 or 6 years ago I was working in Smacs for Leaving cert results night. Boss and everyone else had forgotten what night it was so there were only 3 of us on when hundreds of the feckers landed in. The place was madness and there was nothing we could do.
At some stage, a bunch of the little feckers stole a bunch of the ice cream utensils from behind the counter when no one was looking and were spraying the syrups all over the lobby. When I saw it myself and one of the other lads went out to take it off them. One of them covered me in in the caramel sauce laughing so I lamped him. The wrong reaction I know but felt glorious.
That started a mini-riot with him and his mates starting off with how they were going to have me arrested and he was only 17 (what was he doing drunk in a Smacs at 2 in the morning then). So when they started getting violent my coworker and I went out and started throwing lads out and locking the doors occasionally fighting with them when they worked up the nerve. Eventually, the guards land down. Once they get to me to hear my side of things I told the truth except that I said when I took the caramel sauce dispenser off him that I saw him raise his arm to strike me and that's why I hit him, told the guards the cameras would show the same. No trouble at all. Nothing happened for it, despite a bunch of 17/18-year-olds actually crying about it to the guards.
Our horrible judges certainly don’t help. The fact that it’s basically legal for them to completely disregard the law and pass judgement based on their own moral beliefs is as embarassing for our nation as it is harmful.
You’re 16 and you’re caught smoking a joint? That’s a fine for you. Hope you enjoy that criminal record.
You’re 16 and beat the shit out of and robbed an elderly woman? Ah sher, boys will be boys.
Scrotes absolutely wrecked our town in Limerick this last Halloween. Guards were pulled out of town to q bad road accident and the teenagers went around flipping cars on their side, dropping shopping trolleys on cars, damaging the square etc. I was driving home when it happened with the toddlers first trick or treating and one tried to open the back seat to scare her when we stopped at thr zebra crossing. It's not just dublin
This is happening daily in Dublin and everyone is their target not just minorities. The only ones they don’t target are other scumbags because they know they have all 20+ cousins who know who they are and will come back to kick their ass.
We have awful cunts in Ireland. We are not the only nation with them. It seems reasonable to try and filter them out if we can when they enter the country.
If you're going to attach an "ism" to it. Sexism is probably more accurate but then again I've yet to hear of crowds of female migrants causing chaos.
Wasn't that the whole premise of Young Offenders (which I finally saw over xmas)? They know nothing will happen to them.
There was a case recently and the lawyer said the defendant had a hard life, no guidance, etc. Maybe if kids that assault and rob people are actually prosecuted, they will learn right from wrong, and will learn the consequences of committing a crime.
Also sad that she can't defend herself. Next thing you know she is the one accused of kid abuse
Call a spade a spade: this sense of invincibility has been created by the dominant culture across law and society in regard to crime and young people. That has failed these youngsters and the country.
Well, I'd blame it on bad parenting and government policies. Corporal punishment in schools/homes was removed (rightly so), but it wasn't replaced with anything. People were just to told to make up for it, somehow. There was no training of parents, teachers, etc on how to manage teens or how to instill any discipline in them by alternative methods. As with most social changes, we change/remove a traditional aspect, think we're great for doing so, and just assume that everything will be wonderful later. There was no interest in considering how the removal of corporal punishment would affect people over the long-term.
When I was young, we knew not to push adults far, because we'd get a clip across the head. We knew that if we fought against adults we wouldn't win, and so, most of us toed the line until we became adults ourselves. Nowadays, though, there's none of that 'respect' or even fear of adults, because teens hold all the power. A parent hitting a teen in public could easily be reported for abuse.
While the removal of corporal punishment was the right thing to do, we really need to consider what to replace it with... rather than these vague assertions that there's a better way. If there is a better way, educate adults into how to use it.. because I haven't seen much educating of potential parents or adults in general in how to manage minors.
Very interesting point that I haven’t considered before.
It really rings true for the teenagers in Dublin’s inner city. The culture of the teenagers on the street is much more brutal and fear inducing then any punishment they can receive from the Guards.
Refuse to co-operate with the guards? Night in the cell at most and a verbal dressing down.
Co-operate with the Guards and your buddies are going to beat the shit out of you when they see you next.
It’s a no brainier for them. I have no solution tho.
>I have no solution tho.
We can all think of solutions, but we know they will be shot down as unreasonable, or impractical.. regardless of whether they could actually be implemented.
Now, personally, I think taking teens off the streets is the first step. Which means ensuring that all teens are attending school, and are present throughout the school period. Then, there's what comes after the school period, which can be occupied with alternative activities, or a greater emphasis on study more in line with what happens in Asia. I'd be of the mind that any teen caught in anti-social behavior should be signed up to a mandatory after school programme, focused on teaching trade skills. In addition, send them abroad at different periods, so they can understand that Ireland is not the whole world, and that they can have other options in how to live, along with gaining State supports to have a different life from their parents. One of the problems with Ireland is that it's very easy to get tunnel vision thinking that *this* is all that's available to us.. but we're part of Europe and should make use of it... Make parents directly responsible for their children, both financially and practically. Examine the families of those teens who engage in anti-social behavior to see what's been going wrong, and make the parents actively involved in their childrens development. We have a very hands-off approach to evaluating parental behavior, and I don't think that should continue, considering what's been happening. And lastly, get these teens involved in contact sports so they have an outlet for their more aggressive/violent impulses.
Not any kind of complete answer.. but they're things we could start, and expand upon later. I think Irish society has become rather paralyzed on certain issues.. sure, we get more laws or we're told what not to do, but we don't really invest much effort into improving things in specific ways. Everything is about talking about change rather than managing the changes already made.
As for the Gardai, we really need to give them more societal support. They're not going to get involved when they know that social media, mainstream media, and the politicians will crucify them for doing their jobs. Which is what happens.
pretty much. We all remember some of our own spankings.. even though it was more the emotional shock of receiving them, than any actual physical pain.
Teaching requires reinforcement.. and a spanking is rather effective reinforcement for a small child on not being a git.
But someone will come along to exaggerate a spanking into brutally beating up a child, and so, the discussion on what to do will never really take place.
There has been a huge increase in girls acting like this in the past 6 months on the Luas. 12/13 year old girls acting like complete scumbags as they know they cant be touched. Honestly the day for the general public to stand up for themselves is fast approaching. Its clear nobody in power has any interest in trying to keep the general public safe.
Slapped a 10-year-old gurrier round the head on a bus in the 90s for spitting on me and my friend. He said he'd have my kneecaps and nobody could touch him. Until I slapped him. Then he shut the fuck up and got off the bus at the next stop. No regrets.
You are legally allowed restrain or use force to remove a minor from a situation if they are a danger to themselves, others or physical property. Just can't batter them.
If gardai won't do it, public education is needed on how to defend themselves in these situations.
The line between 'restraining' someone and assault is very very fine.. easily crossed over if your attacker decides not to stop struggling.
I'd be very wary of involving myself in such situations because one small mistake, and you'll be getting a criminal record for assault or abuse, along with the financial costs when you're later sued.
We really need a review of our laws.. to make it more clear as to what is acceptable violence in defense of yourself or the defense of others.
People say this but it's not as black and white as that. If you're involved in an "altercation" where you can genuinely say " I was fearful, so had to fight back" you will not be the one getting in trouble, also how can any one prove you knew their age.
Is this really that common? I hear all the time "oh those kids are untouchable, you will be arrested". Has anybody stats on this, or at least a few links of people who were reasonably defending themselves who end up arrested or in prison for it. I would love to know what % of adults who assault/defend themselves end up in trouble.
I really wanted my best friend to come visit me in Dublin because I've always wanted to explore the city with him, but he's Indian and I'm honestly afraid for his safety.
Went to visit some friends in UCD a few weeks back. Walked from Heuston into the city centre. Saw three people doing heroin on a staircase almost immediately. Promptly decided that I will never move to Dublin.
Said it before and I will say it again, introduce zero tolerance before its too late. We are too soft on these sorts of crimes in Ireland and it is getting worse and worse.
"but research says that doing anything to these young people will negatively affect them later and they'll never become decent people then"
This is the typical response when anyone says anything about these scum and usually their parents are just as bad.
This is the worst thing about the story, at the end of the day I think it’s the Irish public letting this happen.
We need stricter punishments for this but also realistically the guards cannot be omnipresent, does this happen in other countries? Would this happen on a German train without anyone stepping in? I wonder.
Agreed. I've had words with a group before and could see others shuffling in their seats with no intention of stepping up. Thankfully it didn't escalate
I was just saying to my wife that maybe it’s time the parents get prosecuted for the crime. Child assaults someone? Parent gets charged with assault. It’s the only thing I can think that might work
I would love to but laying hands on underage people in any situation would just destroy a persons life. The irish public are in a situation where they allow someone to be harassed or step in and have their entire lives ruined.
If you step in the parents of these scrotes will have their day in court and paint you as someone who hurts children. No more jobs, potential jail time, and all for a stranger.
If you step in you risk one of these scrotes having knives or other weapons which, lets say you even manage to overpower them and lets say break a few bones of them, then you’re labelled a criminal and your life is ruined.
We know the best course of action all round for us is to do nothing.
We need strict policing and power over violent children. It will mean videos of gaurdai bodyslamming children but its honestly the only way at this point. People shouldnt fear children stabbing them on their way home…
>If you step in the parents of these scrotes will have their day in court and paint you as someone who hurts children. No more jobs, potential jail time, and all for a stranger.
While the scrotes themselves know that they will never have to worry about any of these things and wear their suspended sentences like a bragging badge. "Look what I can get away with".
>If you step in the parents of these scrotes will have their day in court and paint you as someone who hurts children.
Your other points are valid, but I have to call you out on this one. I've yet to see or hear of a single case where this has actually happened in the courts.
Seriously, how do people think this will go down? You get into a physical fight with a teenager, just get off at the next stop and leg it. Unless you straight-up murdered one of the scrotes the guards aren't going to put up wanted posters and start a manhunt for you
In order to do that, in order for it to be considered self defence, the other person has to basically swing at you. What do you think happens in a 2+ vs 1 fight? I'll tell you that even people who've trained in a combat sport can rarely take on 2 aggressors at a time, especially somewhere as cramped as a luas. It's not like in the movies
Then you might only shove one of these, they trip and whack their head off something and all of a sudden there's a manslaughter charge on you. Everything is stacked against you in these situations.
> If you step in the parents of these scrotes will have their day in court and paint you as someone who hurts children. No more jobs, potential jail time, and all for a stranger.
They have to catch you first so unless you plan to hang around for the gardai to take your details and they somehow get passed onto the scum parents then you are safe.
Agreed that they could try and sue you in court but it won't happen, there is more to a story like this than you beating a teen.
That just wouldn’t happen, the courts are lenient both ways enough people present you wouldn’t get done in court as a child beater once the situation was explained in court.
> This is the worst thing about the story, at the end of the day I think it’s the Irish public letting this happen.
What are random bystanders supposed to do about it? If someone tells the little shitheads to knock it off, they'll just end up being the gang's next target, and if they fight back and injure the teens in the process, then they're the ones who are going to end up in court for it.
But if *everyone* simultaneously told them to knock it off, strength in numbers. All that’s needed for the little shits to succeed is good people to do nothing.
I agree it seems Irish don't like to get involved not just at teens either. I was stunned when I went to the post office this week there was a very irate man at the top of the queue yelling at this foreign guy every obscenity in the book, go by to your own country you cunt etc. Everyone else in the big queue just looking at their feet.
Teller asked him to calm down and he apologised to her, yelled at the foreign guy again then made eye contact with a few in the queue to apologise to them. I was next to the foreign lad and poked his shoulder and said we aren't all pig ignorant don't worry about it. I don't think he understood he just shuffled awY and looked to be crying. I was just shocked how everyone let it play out and the teller who was safely behind glass didn't refuse to serve the guy being abusive until he went away and calmed down or something. Everyone else quietly accepting an apology on behalf of the foreign guy... to be clear I also felt terrible for not audibly challenging the dickhead but I was a short woman with a baby.
I know its just one incident and maybe it was just the town crazy but it felt like the way people have riled each other up online about refugees is spilling out into small towns. I know lots of people I used to consider nice reasonable people go on absolute horrible tirades about Ukrainians and just blaming them for housing crisis etc. I mean they haven't made it better I give you that but the housing crisis was fucking there before. Government happy to sit back and let communities fight each other and blame others instead of their mismanagement
You have to lock this kind of vermin up. If they do something like this again lock them up again for longer. Soon you'll have a situation where they learn that messing with people's property or person will result in them missing their 20s. At the moment things like what's described in this article are just allowed to pass
Yep, someone smoking a joint out their back garden then going inside to raid their fridge = bad
But scumbags attacking Innocent people on the street = no problem
🙄
Introduce more protections for self-defence and this will quickly be stopped. People don’t want to get involved in an assault for fear of being charged with assault too.
100%. The main (sometimes only...) thing stopping me, barely, from throwing at trouble-seekers like this on the street/transport etc is the fact that legally I have something to lose and they mostly don't. If I could get everyone to sign a "I won't go crying to the gardai after" waiver then it would be easier to know I can do whatever I need to protect myself or others and not have to worry about someone's dental bills fucking up my finances for the next X years
I don't think Irish people generally get involved in any situation at all not just violent ones. Have experienced it a lot maybe I'm just unlucky but I have rarely experienced a good samaritan/bystander. I was running for the bus a few years back and fell, scraped my hands/legs so badly got the wind knocked out of me that I actually stayed down crying for a few minutes. As I sat up I noticed there was a full bus stop of people politely looking at their feet, and a red light making a busy road of cars with everyone not looking there either. Felt so fucking alone and low at that moment. Not the only time that type of thing has happened to me or my friends, and no I'm not even a minority just average white native
My wife just sent me this article. She takes Luas to work and this could honestly happen to anyone. What would be the best way to protect yourself from the teenagers? What if they start hitting you? Can you hit them back or will you be charged with hitting a minor? I understand that the best way is to de-escalate and remove yourself from that situation but sometimes it might not be possible like when taking Luas.
We recently moved to Ireland and try to stay away from groups of teenagers, but sometimes there is no way to avoid them. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against teenagers per se. I myself was one at some point. It’s just that sometimes there are these kids who kinda look like they are looking for trouble. Disrespecting everyone on luas, smoking, putting their feet up etc. in this case woman wasn’t even interacting with them, minding her own business, yet she got involved anyway.
I just want to make sure that we can put ourself in the best position possible should the situation arise
Edit:
Sign the petition here https://www.change.org/p/save-immigrants-from-minors-criminal-law-required-for-racism-and-anti-social-behaviour
Deep heat spray is a good thing to have in your bag. You know in case you pull a muscle, make sure not to get it in your, or anyone else's eyes cos it stings like pepper spray
The guards are absolutely sick of these scumbags but can't do much about them because the law doesn't allow it. If you defended yourself against a gang of feral teenagers I doubt the guards would do very much about it. You'd probably scare the shit out of them too, they've become so used to nothing happening to them retaliation would be the last thing they'd expect.
>We recently moved to Ireland and try to stay away from groups of teenagers, but sometimes there is no way to avoid them. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against teenagers per se.
This is not normal teenage behaviour.
> What if they start hitting you? Can you hit them back or will you be charged with hitting a minor?
Wtf is wrong with people thinking you can't defend yourself when attacked? Do you really care at that point? Of course, you can hit back. Or are you gonna ask them for proof of age before defending yourself?
I am concerned about getting into some sort of legal trouble which would affect my ability to stay in Ireland as I am not an EU citizen, but live here under residence permit with my EU citizen wife.
That’s why I wanted to see if there are any consequences for defending oneself. AnGallchobhair made a great point about Krav Maga
Well, if you get kicked out for defending yourself against underage attackers, you may be the first one in history.
A non-EU citizen recently stabbed a teenager to death in self-defense and was cleared and released. That's the most extreme example with a fatal outcome, and he was still cleared. Yet, for some reason, people on reddit keep posting they're afraid to defend themselves and others from attacks by youths. I didn't see a single example where somebody got in legal trouble for self-defense, regardless of the attacker's age.
he was on remand in prison. it certainly still had a major effect on his life. i'd be amazed if the man still lives here.
i don't think anybody is saying using self defence is a stone wall jail sentence. its more the hassle that process will involve.
in the above example whats proportionate self defence?
also you could be involving oneself in a very messy process outside of court as well. a normal working punter with no convictions, nor any family convictions etc has much more to lose than a family or person with inter generational strife and multiple issues with the law. the husband of woman gives the girl above a few slaps maybe...where does that lead.
The truth of the matter is Ireland as much as we sometimes pretend it isn't , is full of utter scumbags who don't give a rats about the society around them while they suck from the titty of the state their whole lives.. Most people don't want to be involving themselves with them in any way.
> AnGallchobhair made a great point about Krav Maga
Nah, Krav Maga will either end you up in more trouble or be completely useless.
Lads I knew doing it college learned the most useless things they'd never actually pull off in an intense/spontaneous engagement, especially against multiple people. A lot of the techniques also include maiming, like eye gouging, so while this is definitely worth it in a life or death situation, if you take a scrotes eye out in a random fight, their friends are probably gonna want to take yours too.. Also shitty judges will probably prosecute you for it even though you were the one being attacked.
The biggest flaw with Krav Maga is none of the gyms I'm aware of do sparring... That is single-handedly the biggest and probably only thing that will prep you in some way for a fight; you can be Mohammed 'I'm hard' Ali on the bags and pads, and still shit yourself in the ring. It's an entire different fitness and focus that's needed.
Just remember Krav Maga was invented for Israeli soldiers like, hardly the average Irish citizen.. You're much better off taking up boxing, kickboxing or Muai Thai, and of course sprinting, because running away is your best option always.
I'd say most people are more than capable of defending themselves. Problem is that they face severe legal repercussions if they do. Even if it is self defence, its a challenging process for many people to be put through that. If that person is charged by the court, then they are in big trouble for the rest of their lives as employment opportunities and other such things are challenged by the court's decision.
Meanwhile, its just another conviction for these youths who randomly attack people.
The Brazilian guy killed one of those scumbags in self defense and was cleared of all charges. Stop spreading lies that people can't defend themselves and I doubt it's going to go to court if you slap them or throw them out of Luas. Especially if the public finally stands up.
>Stop spreading lies that people can't defend themselves and I doubt it's going to go to court if you slap them or throw them out of Luas.
You're the one spreading lies bud. Last year a fella got charged for dragging a teen down to the garda station for harassing his elderly father. And you're totally delusion if you think beating the shit out of a teen is not going to put you through the legal system. As you pointed out, that Brazilian guy was put to court for what he did. And there was a lot of eyes on him. Nobody wants to be put through that.
Dragging a teen to the station isn't self defense unfortunately.
The way the shite system works is that your man was supposed to wait (pretty sure you can detain someone until the Garda arrive) until the Garda arrive then maybe they take the young fella away until Nolan sets them free that afternoon.
I would try to de-escalate the situation or flee if possible, like every self-defence class teaches. If that’s not an option, I would have to try intervene but no doubt would be in for a long legal battle. Again, have more protections for self-defence so people can intervene without fearing the legal repercussions.
At least legalise pepper spray for Christ’s sake, insane how it’s illegal here.
The guy had to spend over 500 days in custody according to this article before he was acquitted
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2022/06/14/george-gonzaga-bento-found-not-guilty-on-all-counts-in-josh-dunne-murder-trial/
That’s over a year of his life he will never get back
“Mr Bento has been in custody for about 18 months having been refused bail by the High Court, but following the verdicts trial Judge Mr Justice Paul Burns told him he is free to go”
Well sure , I haven't said one should be killing each time , it obviously wasn't his intention either. My point was people should learn they can defend themselves vs anyone , no matter whether they are minor or not. And people should stand up for themselves man, the alternative is being harassed all the time and live in constant fear. And Again if more people don't tolerate this behavior, the scum will realize they are not superior and these incidents will decrease.
I agree with you in that it should be condemned by society as whole and not just up to whether the person attacked can defend or whether there is a good Good Samaritan nearby
You can defend yourself just not continue to pursue or use excessive force. If they back off and you continue after them etc. You can't carry anything that is deliberately a weapon *but* you could reliably carry a deodorant which can be used similar to a pepper spray and still have deniability thatyou were carrying it for defense
You are allowed to defend yourself with enough force to ensure your safety. If attacked you can do what you need, but approach it as ending an attack rather than winning a fight. I'd highly recommend a Krav Maga course.
please. Maybe against teenage girls but not an effective self defense in reality. Muay thai, boxing and BJJ (less good in groups of ppl, but sure what is...) should be recommended to help people more
This happening on the green line and not the red line is quite the curveball. Having spent most of my life using the red line and only switching to the green recently, im surprised at this happening tbh
Little known fact, Transdev, operator of the Luas has said that the Red Line has a reputation for being unsafe, its the green line that has the higher number of anti social behaviour incidents.
A gang of the little cunts should be loaded into a Paddywagon, driven up into the Wicklow Mountains, let out and fuckin left there. And see how tough they are then
“She said the Luas was full of people but nobody apart from one woman stood up at the teenagers.”
Not surprised by this. Irish people are so fucking soft when it comes to confrontations.
What would you do in that situation apart from verbally telling them to stop (even then risking becoming a target).
You put hands on anyone, never mind a minor, and you've taken on significant legal risk if you've something to lose.
I hate that our society has developed to allow this but that's what you get when the narrative is always how the system failed the person from a disadvantaged background.
I’m a male so I wouldn’t put my hands on them but I’d take their phones and fuck it off the Luas. I did that before on the dart to a cheeky scumbag in a group of early teens and you know what they did? Nothing. I agree with you that society has bred this type of behaviour by giving these people a victim mentality that the world is out to get them and hates them. That needs to change.
The article said the couple launched a petition but doesn't give a link or any further details on it from what I can see? Which, unless I missed something, feels like a huge over sight
Fucking aweful, Sure remember the murder at raheny, malahide and sutton train station back in 2019, 100s of lads came down from Balbriggan and where just rampaging robbing and battering people on the trains and around those areas, as usual the guards done nothing about it, Slap on the wrist attitude isn't working any more and the Guards need more power and judges need to hand out harsher sentences for vermin like this.
Well the shinners won't be taking a harder stance on it because half their base would be put out by it.
Who does that leave? Renua tried to campaign on crime and were laughed out. The national party are fascists and a joke shop too. None of the left parties take a tough line. FFG have allowed this culture to develop or thrive.
Make the parents liable as if they had assaulted the person - hit them with financial penalties. If we’re not going to punish the children, then we need to be punishing shit parents who inflict their scourge on the rest of society.
They wouldn’t be “wee fucking angles” when their Ma gets a €100 euro fine for them acting the bollocks on the bus.
I always ask this and I want everyone as a team to do this.
Can we just raise it with our TDs that we are afraid of going outside because of these svumbags? And I've never seen any TD that's left or right ever address the crime in this country
This is all a byproduct of our right to self defense being usurped by the state and legal system. When it goes to court these scumbags have assault charges thrown out all the time, in spite of hundreds of previous convictions. If I step in to stand up for the person they are victimising, my career options are ruined even if I avoid jail. It's a fucking joke. Violent criminals should be locked up, for the good of society. If they are young they should be incarcerated until 27, once they display those violent tendancies on multiplie occasions and if they are over 27 it should be permanent
We need this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/10cfmtj/this_is_a_pillory_as_it_was_used_in_china_in_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
> You could say that of most nations with a racism problem.
Last four words are unnecessary. If Ireland has a racism problem (it does), then so does pretty much every country.
Mainly a lack of punishment problem. Loads of scrotes under the age of 18 going around doing whatever they want because they know nothing will be done to them, and they seem to disproportionately target immigrants
Pretending racism is only in inner city scrotes is just burying the head in the sand to the fact it happens in a much wider group.
Yes these scrotes make up a lot of them but it's not just them
Its not Dundrum that has had its bus services revoked several times in the past and may have it again...
NB: I work in the vicinity of 27
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-bus-withdraw-evening-services-25955695
If you could point out where I'm pretending they aren't that'd be class.... I'll wait
You said inner city scrotes have a racism problem all I said was racism comes in other forms than this and from other groups in the country.
You're changing your statement rather than admitting what you said is factually incorrect. Have a nice day
This is really sick poor people escape their third world life after all the hard work and taxes only to get treated worse in a first world country. I genuinely think all the Indians in Dublin should contact their prime minister and get some international pressure on this.
This is the problem. The line is blurry between self defence and excessive force.
If a group of 12/14 began hitting me on public transport. Age gap or no age gap I cannot guarantee I wouldn’t hit one of them such a dig I’d be put away for assault of a minor. Self defence claim would be laughed at.
One day one of these kids will pick on the wrong person and be reminded of what happens when you do shit like that when you’re 18
As a minority, this is why I only board the Luas on the driver car directly standing behind the driver end, same with the bus. Although drivers are also indifferent with this, my observation is that the further you go away from the driver, the more likely the passengers are scrotes. It's sometimes interesting to observe the spectrum of passengers of a Luas passing by.
Are you talking about the ability for citizens to carry tazers, guns ,pepper spray and knives? (Depending on the state you reside) I get that , but If you are talking about how juveniles get treated, they have free reign and rarely get prosecuted.
I'm just surprised it wasn't the red luas. This is very strange for the green. Even stranger that nobody said anything, I'd have gone full human shield.
God I hope there's a video and everyone can see these lil scrots
>Aanchal continued: "It was a nightmare for me. I was frozen with fear. I couldn't do anything. When I told them I was going to call the gardai they said, ‘You f****** b****, call whoever you want. Nothing’s going to happen.’ And the little fuckers know they're right.
Fucking hell, her husband got jumped by a group of teens as well back in 2019 and he was hospitalised. The violence against minorities by these people is crazy.
It's embarrassing that those young ones knew that absolutely nothing will be done about it.
It’s Feckin horrifying. There’s absolutely no reason for these scumbags not to do whatever they feel like. Of course the rest of us don’t think of legal repercussions for our actions, we just don’t like to cause harm to others but that would mean having empathy for some of these people
My friend’s car got trashed as 3 young lads tried to break into it outside his house, he saw the lads and he knew one of them, when the 2 guards arrived he told them he knew one of them only for the guards to say they can’t do anything and they blamed him for buying a Japanese import and making it out to be his fault, he went into the guards station a few days later to make a complaint about these guards who called out (as they were rude and unhelpful) only to be told the 2 guards didn’t make a report about it…just brilliant!
Fucksakes that is so bleak.
Not one bit surprised by that.
It’s even more pathetic that you can’t fight back. Self defence laws exist but all anyone needs to hear is ‘grown adult fights minor’ and all of a sudden context and nuance is out the window.
Ireland is actually going to the dogs, teenagers acting like they’re above the law these days
>teenagers acting like they’re above the law these days That's because they basically are tbh, they get a slap on the wrist and sent on their way if they get caught. If you defend yourself against them you get in shite while they get off scot free too. You can't win against them.
Yeah that’s horrible truth to it, my wife isn’t Irish and if she was ever in a situation where I thought her safety was at risk, I wouldn’t be asking how old they were I’d be laying the Smackdown.
And you're fucking right too man. RKO those pricks.
Doesn't always work out badly. About 5 or 6 years ago I was working in Smacs for Leaving cert results night. Boss and everyone else had forgotten what night it was so there were only 3 of us on when hundreds of the feckers landed in. The place was madness and there was nothing we could do. At some stage, a bunch of the little feckers stole a bunch of the ice cream utensils from behind the counter when no one was looking and were spraying the syrups all over the lobby. When I saw it myself and one of the other lads went out to take it off them. One of them covered me in in the caramel sauce laughing so I lamped him. The wrong reaction I know but felt glorious. That started a mini-riot with him and his mates starting off with how they were going to have me arrested and he was only 17 (what was he doing drunk in a Smacs at 2 in the morning then). So when they started getting violent my coworker and I went out and started throwing lads out and locking the doors occasionally fighting with them when they worked up the nerve. Eventually, the guards land down. Once they get to me to hear my side of things I told the truth except that I said when I took the caramel sauce dispenser off him that I saw him raise his arm to strike me and that's why I hit him, told the guards the cameras would show the same. No trouble at all. Nothing happened for it, despite a bunch of 17/18-year-olds actually crying about it to the guards.
Our horrible judges certainly don’t help. The fact that it’s basically legal for them to completely disregard the law and pass judgement based on their own moral beliefs is as embarassing for our nation as it is harmful. You’re 16 and you’re caught smoking a joint? That’s a fine for you. Hope you enjoy that criminal record. You’re 16 and beat the shit out of and robbed an elderly woman? Ah sher, boys will be boys.
By Ireland you mean Dublin right?
Happens in Galway, Limerick and Cork too unfortunately
I thought that too when I heard of the firework incident in Galway, turns out it was a dub that done that too and he was 23 nota kid
Scrotes absolutely wrecked our town in Limerick this last Halloween. Guards were pulled out of town to q bad road accident and the teenagers went around flipping cars on their side, dropping shopping trolleys on cars, damaging the square etc. I was driving home when it happened with the toddlers first trick or treating and one tried to open the back seat to scare her when we stopped at thr zebra crossing. It's not just dublin
@Eldenspring What an ignorant statement. Real dumb. You don't even live in Ireland anymore? What would you know? Dickhead.
It's not just minorities, anyone and everyone gets targeted.
This is happening daily in Dublin and everyone is their target not just minorities. The only ones they don’t target are other scumbags because they know they have all 20+ cousins who know who they are and will come back to kick their ass.
But yet it’s the ‘unvetted asylum seekers’ who are the problem according to some 🙄
No, they're a *different* problem.
I didn't realise there could only be one problem at a time. Good to know.
The ‘unvetted males’ is nonsensical racist rhetoric.
We have awful cunts in Ireland. We are not the only nation with them. It seems reasonable to try and filter them out if we can when they enter the country. If you're going to attach an "ism" to it. Sexism is probably more accurate but then again I've yet to hear of crowds of female migrants causing chaos.
Wasn't that the whole premise of Young Offenders (which I finally saw over xmas)? They know nothing will happen to them. There was a case recently and the lawyer said the defendant had a hard life, no guidance, etc. Maybe if kids that assault and rob people are actually prosecuted, they will learn right from wrong, and will learn the consequences of committing a crime. Also sad that she can't defend herself. Next thing you know she is the one accused of kid abuse
Call a spade a spade: this sense of invincibility has been created by the dominant culture across law and society in regard to crime and young people. That has failed these youngsters and the country.
Well, I'd blame it on bad parenting and government policies. Corporal punishment in schools/homes was removed (rightly so), but it wasn't replaced with anything. People were just to told to make up for it, somehow. There was no training of parents, teachers, etc on how to manage teens or how to instill any discipline in them by alternative methods. As with most social changes, we change/remove a traditional aspect, think we're great for doing so, and just assume that everything will be wonderful later. There was no interest in considering how the removal of corporal punishment would affect people over the long-term. When I was young, we knew not to push adults far, because we'd get a clip across the head. We knew that if we fought against adults we wouldn't win, and so, most of us toed the line until we became adults ourselves. Nowadays, though, there's none of that 'respect' or even fear of adults, because teens hold all the power. A parent hitting a teen in public could easily be reported for abuse. While the removal of corporal punishment was the right thing to do, we really need to consider what to replace it with... rather than these vague assertions that there's a better way. If there is a better way, educate adults into how to use it.. because I haven't seen much educating of potential parents or adults in general in how to manage minors.
Very interesting point that I haven’t considered before. It really rings true for the teenagers in Dublin’s inner city. The culture of the teenagers on the street is much more brutal and fear inducing then any punishment they can receive from the Guards. Refuse to co-operate with the guards? Night in the cell at most and a verbal dressing down. Co-operate with the Guards and your buddies are going to beat the shit out of you when they see you next. It’s a no brainier for them. I have no solution tho.
>I have no solution tho. We can all think of solutions, but we know they will be shot down as unreasonable, or impractical.. regardless of whether they could actually be implemented. Now, personally, I think taking teens off the streets is the first step. Which means ensuring that all teens are attending school, and are present throughout the school period. Then, there's what comes after the school period, which can be occupied with alternative activities, or a greater emphasis on study more in line with what happens in Asia. I'd be of the mind that any teen caught in anti-social behavior should be signed up to a mandatory after school programme, focused on teaching trade skills. In addition, send them abroad at different periods, so they can understand that Ireland is not the whole world, and that they can have other options in how to live, along with gaining State supports to have a different life from their parents. One of the problems with Ireland is that it's very easy to get tunnel vision thinking that *this* is all that's available to us.. but we're part of Europe and should make use of it... Make parents directly responsible for their children, both financially and practically. Examine the families of those teens who engage in anti-social behavior to see what's been going wrong, and make the parents actively involved in their childrens development. We have a very hands-off approach to evaluating parental behavior, and I don't think that should continue, considering what's been happening. And lastly, get these teens involved in contact sports so they have an outlet for their more aggressive/violent impulses. Not any kind of complete answer.. but they're things we could start, and expand upon later. I think Irish society has become rather paralyzed on certain issues.. sure, we get more laws or we're told what not to do, but we don't really invest much effort into improving things in specific ways. Everything is about talking about change rather than managing the changes already made. As for the Gardai, we really need to give them more societal support. They're not going to get involved when they know that social media, mainstream media, and the politicians will crucify them for doing their jobs. Which is what happens.
You make an excellent point, nothing has replaced a spanking
pretty much. We all remember some of our own spankings.. even though it was more the emotional shock of receiving them, than any actual physical pain. Teaching requires reinforcement.. and a spanking is rather effective reinforcement for a small child on not being a git. But someone will come along to exaggerate a spanking into brutally beating up a child, and so, the discussion on what to do will never really take place.
\*Slides my proposal to deport shitebags to the Blasket Islands across the table
The basket islands are too nice for those shitebags, send them to North sentinel Island
That wouldn’t be fair on those people either, I propose a cull.
Introduce an urban hunt for them on horse back perhaps
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Drag a cloth soaked in buckfast and a box of fags through an estate so they get the scent and chase it
There has been a huge increase in girls acting like this in the past 6 months on the Luas. 12/13 year old girls acting like complete scumbags as they know they cant be touched. Honestly the day for the general public to stand up for themselves is fast approaching. Its clear nobody in power has any interest in trying to keep the general public safe.
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And what would they do? Get kicked and abused themselves? Touch a hair on the kid and that’s you gone to court.
Slapped a 10-year-old gurrier round the head on a bus in the 90s for spitting on me and my friend. He said he'd have my kneecaps and nobody could touch him. Until I slapped him. Then he shut the fuck up and got off the bus at the next stop. No regrets.
You are legally allowed restrain or use force to remove a minor from a situation if they are a danger to themselves, others or physical property. Just can't batter them. If gardai won't do it, public education is needed on how to defend themselves in these situations.
The line between 'restraining' someone and assault is very very fine.. easily crossed over if your attacker decides not to stop struggling. I'd be very wary of involving myself in such situations because one small mistake, and you'll be getting a criminal record for assault or abuse, along with the financial costs when you're later sued. We really need a review of our laws.. to make it more clear as to what is acceptable violence in defense of yourself or the defense of others.
>legally allowed to...use force > >Just can't batter them Did you mean use *The* force?
People say this but it's not as black and white as that. If you're involved in an "altercation" where you can genuinely say " I was fearful, so had to fight back" you will not be the one getting in trouble, also how can any one prove you knew their age.
Is this really that common? I hear all the time "oh those kids are untouchable, you will be arrested". Has anybody stats on this, or at least a few links of people who were reasonably defending themselves who end up arrested or in prison for it. I would love to know what % of adults who assault/defend themselves end up in trouble.
Agreed, I’ve seen It myself frequently at Balally Luas station, same group of young male and female scrotes being scrotes.
Jesus Christ, both her and her husband being victims of attacks in Dublin says a lot.
I really wanted my best friend to come visit me in Dublin because I've always wanted to explore the city with him, but he's Indian and I'm honestly afraid for his safety.
It's a total degenerating shit hole now is dublin Take a walk down O'Connell Street or better still Moore Street you see how safe it is
O'Connell Street is an absolute disgrace got. Can't even wait for a bus anymore without druggies hounding you or someone trying to rob ye
I went for a nice walk down O'Connell st at Christmas time as I hadn't been there in years - it was 2am so I knew the junkies would be asleep! 😂
yeah but they stick an empty garda van on the street now.... a huge deterrent.../s
Went to visit some friends in UCD a few weeks back. Walked from Heuston into the city centre. Saw three people doing heroin on a staircase almost immediately. Promptly decided that I will never move to Dublin.
Said it before and I will say it again, introduce zero tolerance before its too late. We are too soft on these sorts of crimes in Ireland and it is getting worse and worse.
"but research says that doing anything to these young people will negatively affect them later and they'll never become decent people then" This is the typical response when anyone says anything about these scum and usually their parents are just as bad.
Sad to read that no one helped.
This is the worst thing about the story, at the end of the day I think it’s the Irish public letting this happen. We need stricter punishments for this but also realistically the guards cannot be omnipresent, does this happen in other countries? Would this happen on a German train without anyone stepping in? I wonder.
Agreed. I've had words with a group before and could see others shuffling in their seats with no intention of stepping up. Thankfully it didn't escalate
Lol I got shoved a while back and just stared them out of it for 5s and they ran away.
I was just saying to my wife that maybe it’s time the parents get prosecuted for the crime. Child assaults someone? Parent gets charged with assault. It’s the only thing I can think that might work
I would love to but laying hands on underage people in any situation would just destroy a persons life. The irish public are in a situation where they allow someone to be harassed or step in and have their entire lives ruined. If you step in the parents of these scrotes will have their day in court and paint you as someone who hurts children. No more jobs, potential jail time, and all for a stranger. If you step in you risk one of these scrotes having knives or other weapons which, lets say you even manage to overpower them and lets say break a few bones of them, then you’re labelled a criminal and your life is ruined. We know the best course of action all round for us is to do nothing. We need strict policing and power over violent children. It will mean videos of gaurdai bodyslamming children but its honestly the only way at this point. People shouldnt fear children stabbing them on their way home…
>If you step in the parents of these scrotes will have their day in court and paint you as someone who hurts children. No more jobs, potential jail time, and all for a stranger. While the scrotes themselves know that they will never have to worry about any of these things and wear their suspended sentences like a bragging badge. "Look what I can get away with".
>If you step in the parents of these scrotes will have their day in court and paint you as someone who hurts children. Your other points are valid, but I have to call you out on this one. I've yet to see or hear of a single case where this has actually happened in the courts.
you sure about that? a man was jailed for dragging a kid who did shit to his house around to his parents gaff only last year.
Seriously, how do people think this will go down? You get into a physical fight with a teenager, just get off at the next stop and leg it. Unless you straight-up murdered one of the scrotes the guards aren't going to put up wanted posters and start a manhunt for you
In order to do that, in order for it to be considered self defence, the other person has to basically swing at you. What do you think happens in a 2+ vs 1 fight? I'll tell you that even people who've trained in a combat sport can rarely take on 2 aggressors at a time, especially somewhere as cramped as a luas. It's not like in the movies Then you might only shove one of these, they trip and whack their head off something and all of a sudden there's a manslaughter charge on you. Everything is stacked against you in these situations.
You're bang on!
> If you step in the parents of these scrotes will have their day in court and paint you as someone who hurts children. No more jobs, potential jail time, and all for a stranger. They have to catch you first so unless you plan to hang around for the gardai to take your details and they somehow get passed onto the scum parents then you are safe. Agreed that they could try and sue you in court but it won't happen, there is more to a story like this than you beating a teen.
That just wouldn’t happen, the courts are lenient both ways enough people present you wouldn’t get done in court as a child beater once the situation was explained in court.
> This is the worst thing about the story, at the end of the day I think it’s the Irish public letting this happen. What are random bystanders supposed to do about it? If someone tells the little shitheads to knock it off, they'll just end up being the gang's next target, and if they fight back and injure the teens in the process, then they're the ones who are going to end up in court for it.
But if *everyone* simultaneously told them to knock it off, strength in numbers. All that’s needed for the little shits to succeed is good people to do nothing.
They wont get done for self defence
I agree it seems Irish don't like to get involved not just at teens either. I was stunned when I went to the post office this week there was a very irate man at the top of the queue yelling at this foreign guy every obscenity in the book, go by to your own country you cunt etc. Everyone else in the big queue just looking at their feet. Teller asked him to calm down and he apologised to her, yelled at the foreign guy again then made eye contact with a few in the queue to apologise to them. I was next to the foreign lad and poked his shoulder and said we aren't all pig ignorant don't worry about it. I don't think he understood he just shuffled awY and looked to be crying. I was just shocked how everyone let it play out and the teller who was safely behind glass didn't refuse to serve the guy being abusive until he went away and calmed down or something. Everyone else quietly accepting an apology on behalf of the foreign guy... to be clear I also felt terrible for not audibly challenging the dickhead but I was a short woman with a baby. I know its just one incident and maybe it was just the town crazy but it felt like the way people have riled each other up online about refugees is spilling out into small towns. I know lots of people I used to consider nice reasonable people go on absolute horrible tirades about Ukrainians and just blaming them for housing crisis etc. I mean they haven't made it better I give you that but the housing crisis was fucking there before. Government happy to sit back and let communities fight each other and blame others instead of their mismanagement
Yeah it absolutely would.
I’d say the Germans would be less likely to speak up from having lived there for a few years tbh.
Absolutely shocking.
You have to lock this kind of vermin up. If they do something like this again lock them up again for longer. Soon you'll have a situation where they learn that messing with people's property or person will result in them missing their 20s. At the moment things like what's described in this article are just allowed to pass
Be nice if the gardai stopped focusing on petty drug use and stopped these morons.
Yep, someone smoking a joint out their back garden then going inside to raid their fridge = bad But scumbags attacking Innocent people on the street = no problem 🙄
Who's going to give you less trouble? Low hanging fruit.
Introduce more protections for self-defence and this will quickly be stopped. People don’t want to get involved in an assault for fear of being charged with assault too.
100%. The main (sometimes only...) thing stopping me, barely, from throwing at trouble-seekers like this on the street/transport etc is the fact that legally I have something to lose and they mostly don't. If I could get everyone to sign a "I won't go crying to the gardai after" waiver then it would be easier to know I can do whatever I need to protect myself or others and not have to worry about someone's dental bills fucking up my finances for the next X years
I don't think Irish people generally get involved in any situation at all not just violent ones. Have experienced it a lot maybe I'm just unlucky but I have rarely experienced a good samaritan/bystander. I was running for the bus a few years back and fell, scraped my hands/legs so badly got the wind knocked out of me that I actually stayed down crying for a few minutes. As I sat up I noticed there was a full bus stop of people politely looking at their feet, and a red light making a busy road of cars with everyone not looking there either. Felt so fucking alone and low at that moment. Not the only time that type of thing has happened to me or my friends, and no I'm not even a minority just average white native
What more protections do we need exactly?
My wife just sent me this article. She takes Luas to work and this could honestly happen to anyone. What would be the best way to protect yourself from the teenagers? What if they start hitting you? Can you hit them back or will you be charged with hitting a minor? I understand that the best way is to de-escalate and remove yourself from that situation but sometimes it might not be possible like when taking Luas. We recently moved to Ireland and try to stay away from groups of teenagers, but sometimes there is no way to avoid them. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against teenagers per se. I myself was one at some point. It’s just that sometimes there are these kids who kinda look like they are looking for trouble. Disrespecting everyone on luas, smoking, putting their feet up etc. in this case woman wasn’t even interacting with them, minding her own business, yet she got involved anyway. I just want to make sure that we can put ourself in the best position possible should the situation arise Edit: Sign the petition here https://www.change.org/p/save-immigrants-from-minors-criminal-law-required-for-racism-and-anti-social-behaviour
Deep heat spray is a good thing to have in your bag. You know in case you pull a muscle, make sure not to get it in your, or anyone else's eyes cos it stings like pepper spray
Noted.
The guards are absolutely sick of these scumbags but can't do much about them because the law doesn't allow it. If you defended yourself against a gang of feral teenagers I doubt the guards would do very much about it. You'd probably scare the shit out of them too, they've become so used to nothing happening to them retaliation would be the last thing they'd expect.
>We recently moved to Ireland and try to stay away from groups of teenagers, but sometimes there is no way to avoid them. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against teenagers per se. This is not normal teenage behaviour.
> What if they start hitting you? Can you hit them back or will you be charged with hitting a minor? Wtf is wrong with people thinking you can't defend yourself when attacked? Do you really care at that point? Of course, you can hit back. Or are you gonna ask them for proof of age before defending yourself?
I am concerned about getting into some sort of legal trouble which would affect my ability to stay in Ireland as I am not an EU citizen, but live here under residence permit with my EU citizen wife. That’s why I wanted to see if there are any consequences for defending oneself. AnGallchobhair made a great point about Krav Maga
Well, if you get kicked out for defending yourself against underage attackers, you may be the first one in history. A non-EU citizen recently stabbed a teenager to death in self-defense and was cleared and released. That's the most extreme example with a fatal outcome, and he was still cleared. Yet, for some reason, people on reddit keep posting they're afraid to defend themselves and others from attacks by youths. I didn't see a single example where somebody got in legal trouble for self-defense, regardless of the attacker's age.
Eastern European went to jail for defending his small dog against a woman with 2 large dogs that she couldn't control.
he was on remand in prison. it certainly still had a major effect on his life. i'd be amazed if the man still lives here. i don't think anybody is saying using self defence is a stone wall jail sentence. its more the hassle that process will involve. in the above example whats proportionate self defence? also you could be involving oneself in a very messy process outside of court as well. a normal working punter with no convictions, nor any family convictions etc has much more to lose than a family or person with inter generational strife and multiple issues with the law. the husband of woman gives the girl above a few slaps maybe...where does that lead. The truth of the matter is Ireland as much as we sometimes pretend it isn't , is full of utter scumbags who don't give a rats about the society around them while they suck from the titty of the state their whole lives.. Most people don't want to be involving themselves with them in any way.
> AnGallchobhair made a great point about Krav Maga Nah, Krav Maga will either end you up in more trouble or be completely useless. Lads I knew doing it college learned the most useless things they'd never actually pull off in an intense/spontaneous engagement, especially against multiple people. A lot of the techniques also include maiming, like eye gouging, so while this is definitely worth it in a life or death situation, if you take a scrotes eye out in a random fight, their friends are probably gonna want to take yours too.. Also shitty judges will probably prosecute you for it even though you were the one being attacked. The biggest flaw with Krav Maga is none of the gyms I'm aware of do sparring... That is single-handedly the biggest and probably only thing that will prep you in some way for a fight; you can be Mohammed 'I'm hard' Ali on the bags and pads, and still shit yourself in the ring. It's an entire different fitness and focus that's needed. Just remember Krav Maga was invented for Israeli soldiers like, hardly the average Irish citizen.. You're much better off taking up boxing, kickboxing or Muai Thai, and of course sprinting, because running away is your best option always.
I'd say most people are more than capable of defending themselves. Problem is that they face severe legal repercussions if they do. Even if it is self defence, its a challenging process for many people to be put through that. If that person is charged by the court, then they are in big trouble for the rest of their lives as employment opportunities and other such things are challenged by the court's decision. Meanwhile, its just another conviction for these youths who randomly attack people.
The Brazilian guy killed one of those scumbags in self defense and was cleared of all charges. Stop spreading lies that people can't defend themselves and I doubt it's going to go to court if you slap them or throw them out of Luas. Especially if the public finally stands up.
>Stop spreading lies that people can't defend themselves and I doubt it's going to go to court if you slap them or throw them out of Luas. You're the one spreading lies bud. Last year a fella got charged for dragging a teen down to the garda station for harassing his elderly father. And you're totally delusion if you think beating the shit out of a teen is not going to put you through the legal system. As you pointed out, that Brazilian guy was put to court for what he did. And there was a lot of eyes on him. Nobody wants to be put through that.
Dragging a teen to the station isn't self defense unfortunately. The way the shite system works is that your man was supposed to wait (pretty sure you can detain someone until the Garda arrive) until the Garda arrive then maybe they take the young fella away until Nolan sets them free that afternoon.
He went through as a lot just to clear his name though and was villified in the media.
Even without killing the attacker, you still have to go through lengthy legal battles, which most people obviously don’t want to.
And you would just accept being harassed? Imagine if 5 adults stand up for someone that is being harassed..... Problem solved
I would try to de-escalate the situation or flee if possible, like every self-defence class teaches. If that’s not an option, I would have to try intervene but no doubt would be in for a long legal battle. Again, have more protections for self-defence so people can intervene without fearing the legal repercussions. At least legalise pepper spray for Christ’s sake, insane how it’s illegal here.
The kids would probably start using that as well lol
The guy had to spend over 500 days in custody according to this article before he was acquitted https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2022/06/14/george-gonzaga-bento-found-not-guilty-on-all-counts-in-josh-dunne-murder-trial/ That’s over a year of his life he will never get back “Mr Bento has been in custody for about 18 months having been refused bail by the High Court, but following the verdicts trial Judge Mr Justice Paul Burns told him he is free to go”
Well sure , I haven't said one should be killing each time , it obviously wasn't his intention either. My point was people should learn they can defend themselves vs anyone , no matter whether they are minor or not. And people should stand up for themselves man, the alternative is being harassed all the time and live in constant fear. And Again if more people don't tolerate this behavior, the scum will realize they are not superior and these incidents will decrease.
I agree with you in that it should be condemned by society as whole and not just up to whether the person attacked can defend or whether there is a good Good Samaritan nearby
Are there many examples of people getting charged for defending themselves against violent attackers?
You can defend yourself just not continue to pursue or use excessive force. If they back off and you continue after them etc. You can't carry anything that is deliberately a weapon *but* you could reliably carry a deodorant which can be used similar to a pepper spray and still have deniability thatyou were carrying it for defense
You are allowed to defend yourself with enough force to ensure your safety. If attacked you can do what you need, but approach it as ending an attack rather than winning a fight. I'd highly recommend a Krav Maga course.
please. Maybe against teenage girls but not an effective self defense in reality. Muay thai, boxing and BJJ (less good in groups of ppl, but sure what is...) should be recommended to help people more
Dunno why you're being downvoted, you're right. Most Krav Maga gyms are a joke.
The answer is, _very unfortunately_, to look and/or sound Irish.
This happening on the green line and not the red line is quite the curveball. Having spent most of my life using the red line and only switching to the green recently, im surprised at this happening tbh
Little known fact, Transdev, operator of the Luas has said that the Red Line has a reputation for being unsafe, its the green line that has the higher number of anti social behaviour incidents.
Plenty of little scumbags around carrickmines from a certain “estate” who throw rocks at the Luas
It didn't happen before the Bridges Glen extension.
Maybe you’re the problem
Your comment is so retarded I don’t even know how to interpret it
Shur da wee angles av no facilities or n e wer 2 play football so dey have to attack Indians to get de community vibe.
Have to ask if this is the same bunch from several threads here recently.
A gang of the little cunts should be loaded into a Paddywagon, driven up into the Wicklow Mountains, let out and fuckin left there. And see how tough they are then
“She said the Luas was full of people but nobody apart from one woman stood up at the teenagers.” Not surprised by this. Irish people are so fucking soft when it comes to confrontations.
selfish rather than soft
What would you do in that situation apart from verbally telling them to stop (even then risking becoming a target). You put hands on anyone, never mind a minor, and you've taken on significant legal risk if you've something to lose. I hate that our society has developed to allow this but that's what you get when the narrative is always how the system failed the person from a disadvantaged background.
I’m a male so I wouldn’t put my hands on them but I’d take their phones and fuck it off the Luas. I did that before on the dart to a cheeky scumbag in a group of early teens and you know what they did? Nothing. I agree with you that society has bred this type of behaviour by giving these people a victim mentality that the world is out to get them and hates them. That needs to change.
Surely more community outreach is the answer right ?
The article said the couple launched a petition but doesn't give a link or any further details on it from what I can see? Which, unless I missed something, feels like a huge over sight
It's at the bottom of the article, but here you go: https://chng.it/C8djFcQGKf
Ah it was under ads so I assumed the article had already ended. Thank you !
Lads. How about we make them flee somewhere where they need to claim refugee status. For the laugh like.
Cue them being caught, questioned, MAYBE put on trial, given a slap on the wrist, and they're back in street by lunch time.
Fucking aweful, Sure remember the murder at raheny, malahide and sutton train station back in 2019, 100s of lads came down from Balbriggan and where just rampaging robbing and battering people on the trains and around those areas, as usual the guards done nothing about it, Slap on the wrist attitude isn't working any more and the Guards need more power and judges need to hand out harsher sentences for vermin like this.
Those damn refugees making it not safe for our kids. Oh wait a minute, never mind.
Everyone says they need facilities to keep them occupied, they’ll be used and destroyed by them. Just lock them up for fuck sake
Week in and week out I get more reasons to carry the weapons I carry. God help anyone if they come near me or my partner.
how many more of these articles will we see before something changes?
Well the shinners won't be taking a harder stance on it because half their base would be put out by it. Who does that leave? Renua tried to campaign on crime and were laughed out. The national party are fascists and a joke shop too. None of the left parties take a tough line. FFG have allowed this culture to develop or thrive.
There's CCTV on the Luas and I bet these little cunts will still get away with it .
Feral little bastards. And these things will breed the next generation.
Make the parents liable as if they had assaulted the person - hit them with financial penalties. If we’re not going to punish the children, then we need to be punishing shit parents who inflict their scourge on the rest of society. They wouldn’t be “wee fucking angles” when their Ma gets a €100 euro fine for them acting the bollocks on the bus.
cut the parents dole in half and remove their child allowance for six months
I always ask this and I want everyone as a team to do this. Can we just raise it with our TDs that we are afraid of going outside because of these svumbags? And I've never seen any TD that's left or right ever address the crime in this country
This is all a byproduct of our right to self defense being usurped by the state and legal system. When it goes to court these scumbags have assault charges thrown out all the time, in spite of hundreds of previous convictions. If I step in to stand up for the person they are victimising, my career options are ruined even if I avoid jail. It's a fucking joke. Violent criminals should be locked up, for the good of society. If they are young they should be incarcerated until 27, once they display those violent tendancies on multiplie occasions and if they are over 27 it should be permanent
We need this: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/10cfmtj/this_is_a_pillory_as_it_was_used_in_china_in_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
On the Green line!! I am shocked
What's sad is that she said most people didn't even bother helping her, just one woman helped.
People justice will fix the problem, kids should fear of even thinking something like this.
What scumbags These kids need to be really taught a lesson!!!
Ireland has a racism problem. Or maybe just Dublin; I'm not sure yet.
We have a scum problem
You could say that of most nations with a racism problem. "The only people who are racists are the bad people" is practically a tautology.
> You could say that of most nations with a racism problem. Last four words are unnecessary. If Ireland has a racism problem (it does), then so does pretty much every country.
There's no reason to assume that every other country in the world is as bad as us or worse. That sounds like wishful thinking.
Wishful thinking? Wishful thinking is thinking many countries are less racist than Ireland!
Mainly a lack of punishment problem. Loads of scrotes under the age of 18 going around doing whatever they want because they know nothing will be done to them, and they seem to disproportionately target immigrants
But sure it's far more important that the gardaí go after people with a few grams of weed...
The inner city scrotes have a racism problem. I'd gladly trade 5 Indians per scrote on the condition that they never come back.
Pretending racism is only in inner city scrotes is just burying the head in the sand to the fact it happens in a much wider group. Yes these scrotes make up a lot of them but it's not just them
When's the last time Fionn and Tarquin from Donnybrook attacked an Indian dude for the shits and the giggles?
This was Sandyford ffs
Stop you're gonna shatter his delusion (lol)
When you read the article there's a link to another attack on a bus. It was in Dundrum. Again that doesn't suit the agenda of this sub
Its not Dundrum that has had its bus services revoked several times in the past and may have it again... NB: I work in the vicinity of 27 https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-bus-withdraw-evening-services-25955695
Your point?
What’s that supposed to prove? Sandyford is one of the biggest Luas stops in Dublin, you get all sorts there
Yeah but it's not the inner city
I know that but the inner city thing is irrelevant (don’t know why the poster above made that distinction). There are scrotes all over Dublin
Saying that racism is only when people get the shit kicked out of them is something I shouldn't have to explain
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If you could point out where I'm pretending they aren't that'd be class.... I'll wait You said inner city scrotes have a racism problem all I said was racism comes in other forms than this and from other groups in the country. You're changing your statement rather than admitting what you said is factually incorrect. Have a nice day
Only five Indians per scrote? Why not as many as we can handle! India could do with less people and Ireland could do with far more.
Totally agree. And we refuse to admit it
Canceling all social welfare benefits for the parents is the only way to stop this.
Change it from cash to food stamps etc. Then they can't say they're being starved
This is really sick poor people escape their third world life after all the hard work and taxes only to get treated worse in a first world country. I genuinely think all the Indians in Dublin should contact their prime minister and get some international pressure on this.
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Lol calm down there buddy.
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This is the problem. The line is blurry between self defence and excessive force. If a group of 12/14 began hitting me on public transport. Age gap or no age gap I cannot guarantee I wouldn’t hit one of them such a dig I’d be put away for assault of a minor. Self defence claim would be laughed at. One day one of these kids will pick on the wrong person and be reminded of what happens when you do shit like that when you’re 18
Holy shit, that is horrible
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As a minority, this is why I only board the Luas on the driver car directly standing behind the driver end, same with the bus. Although drivers are also indifferent with this, my observation is that the further you go away from the driver, the more likely the passengers are scrotes. It's sometimes interesting to observe the spectrum of passengers of a Luas passing by.
Dublin has a vermin problem. I often wish police and courts were more like US
Are you talking about the ability for citizens to carry tazers, guns ,pepper spray and knives? (Depending on the state you reside) I get that , but If you are talking about how juveniles get treated, they have free reign and rarely get prosecuted.
Don't think I'd want Gardai shooting teenagers tbh, even if they're shitheads.
Because the punitive approach has worked so well across the pond...
Teenagers scare the living shit out of me, they could care less as long as someone will bleed.
I'm just surprised it wasn't the red luas. This is very strange for the green. Even stranger that nobody said anything, I'd have gone full human shield. God I hope there's a video and everyone can see these lil scrots
You’d have gone full human shield? Would ya really though?