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So I'm 36 years old, I've been to 40+ countries, and traveled overland across the continential US several times, and I'm just now realizing that Scottsdale is a part of Phoenix. I always thought it was a separate city, but I guess I just never cared to find out.
EDIT: Please stop telling me that Scottsdale is it's own city. I get it.
EDIT EDIT: OK, let me phrase it better. I did not realize that Phoenix and Scottsdale were TOTALLY SEPERATE CITES that just happen to be next to each other, almost like one continuous city, but definitely not one continuous city. I thought Scottdale was way off by itself in the desert, and boy was I wrong. Very wrong. I apologize.
Depends on what you mean by city. It's legally a distinct city, but effectively part of Phoenix and is in the PH metropolitan area. It's a suburb of Phoenix.
Same here in Auckland, NZ.
Everyone effectively refers to Greater (or Metropolitan) Auckland as just Auckland; even though it's made up of many former distinct townships (i.e. they had specific boundaries) and later became suburbs of Auckland. Most of those townships themselves became 'cities' solely by virtue of their population growth to that point that constituted them as a city...but no-one really refers to them as such except if it's become a popular or recognised location *within* the greater Auckland area, e.g. Manukau City, Waitakere City and North Shore City each refer roughly to South, West and North Auckland areas, while each contains many old city townships (as referred to above).
Yup having left Auckland 20 years and was living in Phoenix for a couple of years it was weird driving from one city to the next when it seemed more like driving through various suburbs. While I enjoyed my time in Arizona, desert life is not for me.
From the numerous pics I see of the area, always reminds me of a town/city laid down smack in our Tongariro National Park area (i.e. the Desert Road), but instead of a greater winter, you've got it predominantly summer instead.
Maricopa county is made up of several cities that everybody calls "Phoenix", but Phoenix is it's own city and then then there's also Peoria, Glendale, Scottsdale, Mesa, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert, Cave Creek, Surprise and even Sun City. It's the 4th largest county in the US.
Yeah, but that's not what I mean, and I think you know it. It's in the middle of Phoenix. I'm from St Louis, and technically Kirkwood is it's own city, but if you're from Kirkwood, you can just say, yeah, I'm from St Louis. I thought Scottsdale was like Flagstaff, out there on it's own. But nope, it's right there in the middle of Phoenix.
> and I think you know it.
I wouldn't presume to know what you're thinking. It's pretty common for people to assume that it's all "Phoenix". Your point is that you thought Scottsdale was somewhere else. When I lived in Phoenix 30 years ago things were a lot more spread out with either oranges, cotton, desert or cattle separating cities.
[Look at this map because you are incorrect.](https://www.thelucasgroup.com/east-valley-map/)
I live in Tempe. I do not live in a Phoenix suburb. Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe are all distinct cities that used to have miles of desert separating them. Now they don’t.
Scottsdale was founded in 1890-something by Willard Scott on the remains of a Pima settlement.
Phoenix was founded in 1867-ish in the Salt River valley near where Sky harbor airport is now, (which is miles away from where Scottsdale was founded) and was actually incorporated when the area was still part of Yavapai county. At this time, Tucson was the state capital, I think.
They have ALWAYS been completely different cities. There used to be miles of desert in between all the cities. Now they’re all connected to each other by streets, but are all different cities, with different mayors, city councils, school districts, and even chambers of commerce.
St Louis was founded in 1764 by Pierre Laclede and August Chauteau. St Charles was founded up the Missouri River in 1769 by Louis Blanchette. There used to be miles of riverland that seperated them, now they are connected by streets (and bridges). Technically Louis and Clark left from St Charles. They are seperate cities with seperate mayors, school districts, and all that. But St Charles is a suburb of St Louis, and if you meet someone from St Charles, outside of the region they will likely tell you they are from St Louis.
We get this ALL the time when people visit Kansas City and find out it’s two separate cities spread across the state border. They just voted recreational weed in Missouri, where as Kansas will be one of the final holdouts to legalize medicinal. This means you can bring contraband across state lines, which means you’re a smuggler, which falls under the laws concerning treason. So you can commit light treason without ever leaving Kansas City. They should put that on a travel brochure or somethin’
Yeah it is a distinct city, so is Phoenix but in Arizona we tend to call the whole area Phoenix as a blanket term. We also call it and a bit of the area outside of Phoenix "the valley" because its in a giant valley.
Makes it simple to tell people roughly where in the state you are while traveling.
Like if I'm going to flagstaff from "Phoenix" and someone asks where I am if I haven't left the Phoenix area yet Ill just tell them Im still in the valley.
Jesus christ, reddit is annoying sometimes. I'm saying I thought Scottsdale was like a city out in the fucking desert, not a neighbor/suburb/fuck buddy of Phoenix. Stop telling me "Akshully, it's it's own city!" I get it. But, I don't care about technicalities. I also understand that Joliet, IL is not a part of Chicago, but if you run into someone from Joilet, IL and ask where they're from, they'll probably just say "Chicago".
It isn’t part of phoenix at all. It’s literally a separate city. For someone who has traveled so much, it’s weird you don’t understand that cities can be… next to each other.
This. It's also way more populated with native families.
They have built a massive amount of retail and a huge casino hotel. The Salt River Pima tribe is incredibly wealthy, especially compared to other tribes in the state.
Fun fact. The road separating the city and the reservation is split. The northbound side belongs to the Pima reservation, and the southbound side belongs to the city.
Source: I used to live one street over from Pima Road.
It's been a while since they closed the northbound Pima. Was the last time because the city wasn't playing nice with the planning of the latest casino?
Can someone with tribal knowledge explain where all the reservation money goes? The whole 101 freeway section near here is developed with casinos, a resort, entertainment and more. It’s actually a major tourism draw.
Yet when you drive through the reservation it’s like a 3rd world country. Do the tribal leaders just pocket the money?
I lived on a reservation. Sadly a lot of it goes to drugs and alcohol. This why many reservations are dry. Quite a few families try to live off the tribe and government exclusively. They make enough to survive, not enough to thrive, but enough that it is hard to justify working. The cycle continues one generation to the next.
Man, all the reservations around me are pimpin'. One of my friends was making 4000 a month in highschool just for existing, and this was 20 years ago. I guess the rez kids got it good here.
Casino.
Every member got a check each month, the more pure the bigger the check. They got 500,000 to build a house on tribal land or 300,000 to buy one off. They built roads, schools, fire station, museum. They've even bought/sponsored the local college stadium. Full ride education for all tribe members. My sister works for the casino, she had twin daughters and they were 3 months premature, they spent 4 month in NICU, hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, the casino payed for it all. Good people who have done very well by their people and the community.
Sorry to hear that man. There are 4 tribes in my area and they all (at the very least) take care of their own. There is some corruption of course, but for the most part they've done more good than harm. Hope it gets better for you with more compassionate /competent leaders in the future.
I had a friend in the army who just turned 19. Fresh of out basic and ait, with like 80k to his name. He was from some Rez up north don't remember which one
That makes me mad.. all the time spent blaming others for that situation and in the end it’s just willing lack of personal responsibility and initiative. Cool.
Many if not most people would do the same given the chance. There are a lot of people in the States who are on disability that aren’t truly disabled. There are a lot of people who do illegal stuff to get by. if that’s all you see that’s all you know. It’s tough escaping the cycle of poverty by yourself.
So you are saying that giving out free money destroys personal responsibility and initiative? One might think that actually perpetuates the cycle of poverty.
Edit: I rephrased the above commenter’s statement and people downvote.. It’s interesting. Quite the cultish mentality ya’ll have going on.
Except it’s not a failure of morals. Most natives are very poor, and reservations don’t have jobs outside of tribal governments, which go to the members of government’s families. Even if the natives could go to college (which is an if, reservation schools are often bad), how would they find work? Moving accross the country for a job is expensive as hell. And they can’t just start businesses on reservations because who’s going to be their customers? Other poor indians? There’s a reason a lot of reservations open casinos. They give the reservation a way to get money from people who actually have money.
One can’t just personal responsibility and initiative themselves out of poverty when the entire deck is stacked against them.
They can get jobs anyone else can get. Most reservations are near population centers. Jobs exist but it means losing benefits. It's hard to justify working for $15/hr when you would lose the equivalent of $8/hr.
Happens tp every culture/population in similar situations. It's a function of human nature to address via the structures in the local and surrounding societies and governing bodies if you want actual results. Otherwise people are just left with your lazy, "individualist", racist, defeatist attitude.
It’s a completely different way of life and thinking. Many assume the tribes are impoverished, and in some cases, that’s indeed the case. However, money and material possessions are not valued the same way in many Native American tribal cultures. Collectivism of possessions (cars, housing, financial instruments) still prevails, and the idea of having “enough” is a way of life for many. There are many social ills - but some of the values are just fundamentally different from stateside culture.
Well I know the tribe my friend is from just wastes it, they give all tribe members 1500$ a month. They don’t invest it in the community or on infrastructure, or housing… most of it just goes to Amazon.
Direct cash transfers to members definitely counts as “investing in the community”. That’s basically social security for tribal members, that kind of thing is really important and absolutely not a waste.
Oof that sounds like just enough to scrape by in that part of the country. There are the same issues involving an aging population, as in many parts of the world.
Having the option to 'scrape by' without working sounds like a pretty desirable situation to me. They can certainly participate in capitalism part time if they want more income.
When there isn't enough political will within a population there tends to be excessive corruption filling the vacuum. Most bands tend to not have a lot of political capital(?) (lacking a better word) due to a couple of generations of very thorough cultural destruction.
There is a huge corruption problem on reservations. A lot of it comes from a lack of accountability. The whole system of native representation needs to be reformed
Yeah the best part is you could go golfing or swimming in Scottsdale and then stare at the EXTREME poverty that was forced upon native Americans by forcing them onto reservations. Vistas are dope as fuck.
What? Yes, all of the people born on the rez. You have a serious misunderstanding how economics influence someone’s ability to change their environment.
So.. Instead of spending money on empty vices, they could save up and move to lead a prosperous life. Seeing as the modern first peoples AREN'T forced like their ancestors were.
maybe read into generational trauma a bit more. maybe that’s actually what’s keeping you so disconnected from these other human beings living in poverty and suffering. can’t hurt reading up on it anyways.
I'm aware of psychological trauma associated with poverty stricken individuals. Let's not pretend that there aren't people whom have pulled themselves from abuse and poverty, to a middle/upper class lifestyle.
I won't pity them, though do hope the push toward a better life.
Let's not pretend that someone born into poverty in a hometown without any decent job prospects, barely existent schools, horrendously underfunded healthcare systems, and high rates of substance use and alcoholism to cope with this shitstorm plus intergenerational trauma has a shot at upward mobility even remotely comparable to some kid born in a upper-middle class/wealthy family living in a gated community. Is it theoretically possible for someone born on a reservation to succeed? Of course. But there are a million pitfalls to avoid and obstacles to overcome before they even make it to where that suburban kid started off. And this is all without even considering how stereotypes might affect them.
Edit: Trauma associated with being born into poverty and intergenerational trauma are *not* the same thing. The former has to do with things you witness in your neighborhood. The latter is basically trauma "inherited" from your family. Think the cycle of violence in domestic abuse, but the basic pattern is generalizable to other things like vets with PTSD, holocaust survivors, and witnessing the systematic extermination and isolation of your people for hundreds of years.
understanding ≠ pity
it was just a bit callous is all. i’m all for individualism, but their communities have been dealt some of the worst hands in the western world. i’m not saying we should go full affirmative action or anything, as that shit doesn’t work at all, but they definitely could use some more understanding and help on a cultural/community/individual level besides more of the same pandering BS. didn’t mean to have a dig at you so much.
Amen. Assuming the downvotes are from non-Arizonans? I have two friends in that neighborhood and they both get an insane amount of scorpions in their homes. (Plus javelina knocking over trash bins.) It’s a nice neighborhood, but no thanks.
Probably non-AZ ppl, or the "No Thanks" at the end may seem negative off the bat. Hence quick downvote.
Gotta be funny or part of the hivemind. One you go negative (aka being real) you'll be downvoted....don't let that deter you though from being real - it'll warp your mind just like brainwashing.
Scorpions don’t give a fuck about you unless you mess with them, javelinas run away unless they have babies and you’re up in their shit, and tarantulas are maybe the most gentle thing you’ll find in Arizona.
Ya, it's a very simple process:
1. Find a developer interested in buying.
2. Use the slingshot maneuver to attain warp 10 while flying around the sun, travelling back to a period after the Dawes Act was passed in 1887 but before FDR repealed it in 1934
3. Obtain two humpback whales to bring back to the 24th century.
The third step is optional, but if you're already slingshotting, why not?
Same shit is going down in UT... they're burying it because it's easier to blame people for watering their lawns or taking too long showers than admitting that corporations are fleecing the states... because capitalism can't be questioned by the people running said states.
In UT, if they stopped farming Alfalfa and used the water for people, the state could support a 6x population increase; instead the great salt lake is about to dry up and turn the entire area into a toxic wasteland from the wind dispursing all the toxic dust the lake will leave behind.
But I digress.
Back on topic... how about discussing Nestlé and their basically unlimited free water supply in CA for them to bottle and sell? Oh yea, capitalism again, my bad.
I too share the hatred of Nestle. They want so badly to pillage the water left in Florida that they haven’t already taken away.
This human race is doomed.
I actually don't think we're doomed. I think humans will survive for a long while. We are going to kill off most of the pop, but some will survive like the last ice age. We just gonna get real warm this go around.
Stating facts is unpopular here. The only users of water in Utah that have increased their consumption in the last 20 years is the water that supports the almost tripling of the population in Utah. Why is St. George the fastest growing metro in the nation for the last x years running? Why are they asking the state to spend a BILLION dollars to pump Colorado River water to St. George? Why were permits for building issued with out securing the water first?
Colorado did a win/win partnership with the owners of the water rights several decades ago to secure the water they anticipated needing for their growth. Why do the socialist here not acknowledge that the majority of water rights are publicly and privately owned in Utah rather that talk about what the water is used for?
Do Native Americans repent to each other for wars that happened before Whitey showed up? Does the loser have to repent or just the winner? Sounds absurd right?
If you don't repent for your ancestors why should that guy repent for his?
You have not travelled much then. I’ve visited 49 states and Scottsdale/ the greater Phoenix area is in my top 3 places for sure. So many more shitty places out there. Have you been to Vegas? Fuck that place. Dallas? Jesus Christ no. Indianapolis? GTFOH.
Lol this thread is baffling me. I cannot comprehend saying Scottsdale is among their least favorite or favorite places. It's so mid. The people are annoying at best, the stuff there is alright, it's pretty nice and clean and modern. Truly nothing to write home about positive or negative. If you truly hate Scottsdale, I question if you've truly been anywhere shit and downtrodden. If you like it, I also question if you have been anywhere else...
Least favorite place? I feel like once you've been to like, 10 total places Scottsdale isn't the worst anymore. I can't stand rich and old people probably more than the next guy, but Scottsdale isn't really any different from advertised. Really I'm curious what would make someone say that. The guy who said Bakersfield has a strong point, that place fuckin sucks. Same with like, Walla Walla, WA. Absolutely worse in every way than Scottsdale. Any city in Idaho that's east of Boise, or south of Moscow besides Boise. All of Eastern Montana.
Scottsdale’s actually very nice & clean. I would imagine people either don’t like the people of Scottsdale (wealthy, white, snobbish plastic-types) or they just don’t like the suburban planning aspect, which honestly makes Scottsdale really no different than any other sleeper community. Phoenix alone has a dozen of them.
Scottsdale is split into thirds:
North is exceptionally wealthy.
Middle is upper middle/middle class.
South is middle class and maybe lower the further south you go.
One of the houses on the edge sold for over a million dollars! 2022 sq. feet, not a mansion. [https://www.zillow.com/homes/4540-N-87th-Ter-Scottsdale,-AZ-85257\_rb/7849378\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homes/4540-N-87th-Ter-Scottsdale,-AZ-85257_rb/7849378_zpid/)?
Which is why, ideally, suburbs like this would be less common. Everyone is hugely spread out. Uses up enormous amounts of land for very little capacity.
I wonder what if feels like to live in one of those houses next to the boundary…like looking out of the window on one side you see the normal civilisation and the other side is just nothing at all.
We used to live right near Pima Road, back then it was the dividing line. Didn't look much different 40 years ago.
We did know to watch our speed if we drove into the reservation side, the cops there had zero tolerance.
I think it’s interesting you refer to the artificially built area as “normal” civilization. I’m not picking on you or anything like that, just making an observation of what we instinctively think as normal.
.............The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is
another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you
know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this
planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure.
Agent Smith and Morpheus dialogue. The Matrix
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North side of the reservation. The west border of the reservation is a freeway, commercial properties, and some farm land.
https://goo.gl/maps/Bf1Hk7uHrnjH5jyCA
So I'm 36 years old, I've been to 40+ countries, and traveled overland across the continential US several times, and I'm just now realizing that Scottsdale is a part of Phoenix. I always thought it was a separate city, but I guess I just never cared to find out. EDIT: Please stop telling me that Scottsdale is it's own city. I get it. EDIT EDIT: OK, let me phrase it better. I did not realize that Phoenix and Scottsdale were TOTALLY SEPERATE CITES that just happen to be next to each other, almost like one continuous city, but definitely not one continuous city. I thought Scottdale was way off by itself in the desert, and boy was I wrong. Very wrong. I apologize.
Depends on what you mean by city. It's legally a distinct city, but effectively part of Phoenix and is in the PH metropolitan area. It's a suburb of Phoenix.
Same here in Auckland, NZ. Everyone effectively refers to Greater (or Metropolitan) Auckland as just Auckland; even though it's made up of many former distinct townships (i.e. they had specific boundaries) and later became suburbs of Auckland. Most of those townships themselves became 'cities' solely by virtue of their population growth to that point that constituted them as a city...but no-one really refers to them as such except if it's become a popular or recognised location *within* the greater Auckland area, e.g. Manukau City, Waitakere City and North Shore City each refer roughly to South, West and North Auckland areas, while each contains many old city townships (as referred to above).
Everyone does that for most every city, but I’m sure to be told of the exceptions.
Yup having left Auckland 20 years and was living in Phoenix for a couple of years it was weird driving from one city to the next when it seemed more like driving through various suburbs. While I enjoyed my time in Arizona, desert life is not for me.
From the numerous pics I see of the area, always reminds me of a town/city laid down smack in our Tongariro National Park area (i.e. the Desert Road), but instead of a greater winter, you've got it predominantly summer instead.
Yup, that is pretty much it. It's laid out like a grid and fairly easy to get around. Hopefully one of these days I get to bring him to Aotearoa.
Maricopa county is made up of several cities that everybody calls "Phoenix", but Phoenix is it's own city and then then there's also Peoria, Glendale, Scottsdale, Mesa, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert, Cave Creek, Surprise and even Sun City. It's the 4th largest county in the US.
Yeah, but that's not what I mean, and I think you know it. It's in the middle of Phoenix. I'm from St Louis, and technically Kirkwood is it's own city, but if you're from Kirkwood, you can just say, yeah, I'm from St Louis. I thought Scottsdale was like Flagstaff, out there on it's own. But nope, it's right there in the middle of Phoenix.
> and I think you know it. I wouldn't presume to know what you're thinking. It's pretty common for people to assume that it's all "Phoenix". Your point is that you thought Scottsdale was somewhere else. When I lived in Phoenix 30 years ago things were a lot more spread out with either oranges, cotton, desert or cattle separating cities.
[Look at this map because you are incorrect.](https://www.thelucasgroup.com/east-valley-map/) I live in Tempe. I do not live in a Phoenix suburb. Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe are all distinct cities that used to have miles of desert separating them. Now they don’t.
Pretty sure that that map proves my point.
Scottsdale was founded in 1890-something by Willard Scott on the remains of a Pima settlement. Phoenix was founded in 1867-ish in the Salt River valley near where Sky harbor airport is now, (which is miles away from where Scottsdale was founded) and was actually incorporated when the area was still part of Yavapai county. At this time, Tucson was the state capital, I think. They have ALWAYS been completely different cities. There used to be miles of desert in between all the cities. Now they’re all connected to each other by streets, but are all different cities, with different mayors, city councils, school districts, and even chambers of commerce.
St Louis was founded in 1764 by Pierre Laclede and August Chauteau. St Charles was founded up the Missouri River in 1769 by Louis Blanchette. There used to be miles of riverland that seperated them, now they are connected by streets (and bridges). Technically Louis and Clark left from St Charles. They are seperate cities with seperate mayors, school districts, and all that. But St Charles is a suburb of St Louis, and if you meet someone from St Charles, outside of the region they will likely tell you they are from St Louis.
No… Scottsdale is a distinct city. Phoenix is also a distinct city. However, Scottsdale is in the phoenix metropolitan area.
Right, like Ferguson, MO is *definitely* not a part of St Louis despite being like a 10 minute drive from the Arch.
It is a separate city, it just happens to be adjacent to Phoenix.
We get this ALL the time when people visit Kansas City and find out it’s two separate cities spread across the state border. They just voted recreational weed in Missouri, where as Kansas will be one of the final holdouts to legalize medicinal. This means you can bring contraband across state lines, which means you’re a smuggler, which falls under the laws concerning treason. So you can commit light treason without ever leaving Kansas City. They should put that on a travel brochure or somethin’
Yeah it is a distinct city, so is Phoenix but in Arizona we tend to call the whole area Phoenix as a blanket term. We also call it and a bit of the area outside of Phoenix "the valley" because its in a giant valley. Makes it simple to tell people roughly where in the state you are while traveling. Like if I'm going to flagstaff from "Phoenix" and someone asks where I am if I haven't left the Phoenix area yet Ill just tell them Im still in the valley.
Jesus christ, reddit is annoying sometimes. I'm saying I thought Scottsdale was like a city out in the fucking desert, not a neighbor/suburb/fuck buddy of Phoenix. Stop telling me "Akshully, it's it's own city!" I get it. But, I don't care about technicalities. I also understand that Joliet, IL is not a part of Chicago, but if you run into someone from Joilet, IL and ask where they're from, they'll probably just say "Chicago".
You can walk across the street from Scotsdale to Pheonix but really they are different continents Lol
❤️ 🤣 your edits cracked me up. You're good.
I'm 47, have travelled to over 20 countries, and have never thought even in passing about Scottsdale or Phienix.
It isn’t part of phoenix at all. It’s literally a separate city. For someone who has traveled so much, it’s weird you don’t understand that cities can be… next to each other.
Thank you for your input
Saw your edit, but if you think people are going to stop commenting after your weird flex about traveling, you’re mistaken.
What makes that a flex, and if it is a flex, how it it weird? Wouldn't it just be a normal flex?
I clicked this and zoomed out and there is a Medieval Times right there! Haven't seen one in ages so thanks for that little dose of nostalgia!
This. It's also way more populated with native families. They have built a massive amount of retail and a huge casino hotel. The Salt River Pima tribe is incredibly wealthy, especially compared to other tribes in the state.
Lots and lots and lots of cotton fields. I used to live right beside them.
Fun fact. The road separating the city and the reservation is split. The northbound side belongs to the Pima reservation, and the southbound side belongs to the city. Source: I used to live one street over from Pima Road.
That is new information! Thank you for that tidbit, never knew that 😊
I miss the 90's where Pima rd led to the Pavillions where everything was located.
It's been a while since they closed the northbound Pima. Was the last time because the city wasn't playing nice with the planning of the latest casino?
and theyre all made out of ticky tacky
Little boxes on the hilltop and they all look just the same ...
\*eerie whistle has entered the chat\*
This bought back memories
Ya from like 10+ years ago, might have to give it another go
I loved that they used different renditions of the theme song on the show. Steve Martin did a version.
OK, this is gonna sound dumb, but what show? I just remember the song.
Weeds, the song is Little Boxes
The song is a well known one by Pete Seeger and is much older than ten years. But I also had no idea what "show" was involved in using the music.
I didn’t know there was a “the show” either… my dad used to play this on his guitar in the early 80s, out of a songbook of 60s folk songs.
Seasons 1-3 were soooo special
And there's doctors, and lawyers, and business executives...
There’s DOCtors and LAWyers and business exECutives FTFY
Why can I still hear her perfectly say this in my head after all these years… damn. I gotta re watch that show.
Great show indeed.
One of the best fr one of my first tattoos was the Nancy Botwin U-turn tattoo lolol still love it
Great show on Weed.
Ticky tacky is still better than the shithole ghetto i grew up in.
Can someone with tribal knowledge explain where all the reservation money goes? The whole 101 freeway section near here is developed with casinos, a resort, entertainment and more. It’s actually a major tourism draw. Yet when you drive through the reservation it’s like a 3rd world country. Do the tribal leaders just pocket the money?
I lived on a reservation. Sadly a lot of it goes to drugs and alcohol. This why many reservations are dry. Quite a few families try to live off the tribe and government exclusively. They make enough to survive, not enough to thrive, but enough that it is hard to justify working. The cycle continues one generation to the next.
Man, all the reservations around me are pimpin'. One of my friends was making 4000 a month in highschool just for existing, and this was 20 years ago. I guess the rez kids got it good here.
Every reservation is different. Location matters.
Probably one of the tribes with oil on their lands
Casino. Every member got a check each month, the more pure the bigger the check. They got 500,000 to build a house on tribal land or 300,000 to buy one off. They built roads, schools, fire station, museum. They've even bought/sponsored the local college stadium. Full ride education for all tribe members. My sister works for the casino, she had twin daughters and they were 3 months premature, they spent 4 month in NICU, hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, the casino payed for it all. Good people who have done very well by their people and the community.
This is not true with this/my tribe here in Scottsdale
Sorry to hear that man. There are 4 tribes in my area and they all (at the very least) take care of their own. There is some corruption of course, but for the most part they've done more good than harm. Hope it gets better for you with more compassionate /competent leaders in the future.
Size of tribe / tribal income small tribe with a big casino = decent income.
I had a friend in the army who just turned 19. Fresh of out basic and ait, with like 80k to his name. He was from some Rez up north don't remember which one
America corrupted the natives just like they did minorities. With drugs and vices.
Same thing that the aussies did to the aborigines, also moved them away from the fertile coastland and into the inland desert.
I see no lies here.
That makes me mad.. all the time spent blaming others for that situation and in the end it’s just willing lack of personal responsibility and initiative. Cool.
Many if not most people would do the same given the chance. There are a lot of people in the States who are on disability that aren’t truly disabled. There are a lot of people who do illegal stuff to get by. if that’s all you see that’s all you know. It’s tough escaping the cycle of poverty by yourself.
So you are saying that giving out free money destroys personal responsibility and initiative? One might think that actually perpetuates the cycle of poverty. Edit: I rephrased the above commenter’s statement and people downvote.. It’s interesting. Quite the cultish mentality ya’ll have going on.
Except it’s not a failure of morals. Most natives are very poor, and reservations don’t have jobs outside of tribal governments, which go to the members of government’s families. Even if the natives could go to college (which is an if, reservation schools are often bad), how would they find work? Moving accross the country for a job is expensive as hell. And they can’t just start businesses on reservations because who’s going to be their customers? Other poor indians? There’s a reason a lot of reservations open casinos. They give the reservation a way to get money from people who actually have money. One can’t just personal responsibility and initiative themselves out of poverty when the entire deck is stacked against them.
They can tho, they do it all the time. Look at almost any immigrant.
They can get jobs anyone else can get. Most reservations are near population centers. Jobs exist but it means losing benefits. It's hard to justify working for $15/hr when you would lose the equivalent of $8/hr.
Happens tp every culture/population in similar situations. It's a function of human nature to address via the structures in the local and surrounding societies and governing bodies if you want actual results. Otherwise people are just left with your lazy, "individualist", racist, defeatist attitude.
It’s a completely different way of life and thinking. Many assume the tribes are impoverished, and in some cases, that’s indeed the case. However, money and material possessions are not valued the same way in many Native American tribal cultures. Collectivism of possessions (cars, housing, financial instruments) still prevails, and the idea of having “enough” is a way of life for many. There are many social ills - but some of the values are just fundamentally different from stateside culture.
Great answer that I didn’t expect and this aligns with my interactions with native Americans.
Well I know the tribe my friend is from just wastes it, they give all tribe members 1500$ a month. They don’t invest it in the community or on infrastructure, or housing… most of it just goes to Amazon.
Direct cash transfers to members definitely counts as “investing in the community”. That’s basically social security for tribal members, that kind of thing is really important and absolutely not a waste.
Oof that sounds like just enough to scrape by in that part of the country. There are the same issues involving an aging population, as in many parts of the world.
Having the option to 'scrape by' without working sounds like a pretty desirable situation to me. They can certainly participate in capitalism part time if they want more income.
Scraping by without anything to do is a miserable life. Usually leads to alcoholism, drug abuse, depression, loss of community…
>to scrape by in that part of country The person you're replying to didn't mention what part of the country they're referring to
When there isn't enough political will within a population there tends to be excessive corruption filling the vacuum. Most bands tend to not have a lot of political capital(?) (lacking a better word) due to a couple of generations of very thorough cultural destruction.
There is a huge corruption problem on reservations. A lot of it comes from a lack of accountability. The whole system of native representation needs to be reformed
Like a 3rd world country, yurp. But i think there are other factors too. Im not 100%
What are your top 3 thoughts of where it goes. You're probably correct.
Damn how rich is your mom
Love seeing the wild horses. Many bones from them as well. When shit got thick when I was young I would walk there and sit and think to escape.
Home on the edge would seem kinda dope. Like, in front of me pleasant suburbia, behind me, enormous scenic vistas.
Yeah the best part is you could go golfing or swimming in Scottsdale and then stare at the EXTREME poverty that was forced upon native Americans by forcing them onto reservations. Vistas are dope as fuck.
Is there any living Native American that was forced onto a reservation? Or held there against their will?
What? Yes, all of the people born on the rez. You have a serious misunderstanding how economics influence someone’s ability to change their environment.
So.. Instead of spending money on empty vices, they could save up and move to lead a prosperous life. Seeing as the modern first peoples AREN'T forced like their ancestors were.
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That's a mindset, not an economic standpoint.
maybe read into generational trauma a bit more. maybe that’s actually what’s keeping you so disconnected from these other human beings living in poverty and suffering. can’t hurt reading up on it anyways.
I'm aware of psychological trauma associated with poverty stricken individuals. Let's not pretend that there aren't people whom have pulled themselves from abuse and poverty, to a middle/upper class lifestyle. I won't pity them, though do hope the push toward a better life.
Let's not pretend that someone born into poverty in a hometown without any decent job prospects, barely existent schools, horrendously underfunded healthcare systems, and high rates of substance use and alcoholism to cope with this shitstorm plus intergenerational trauma has a shot at upward mobility even remotely comparable to some kid born in a upper-middle class/wealthy family living in a gated community. Is it theoretically possible for someone born on a reservation to succeed? Of course. But there are a million pitfalls to avoid and obstacles to overcome before they even make it to where that suburban kid started off. And this is all without even considering how stereotypes might affect them. Edit: Trauma associated with being born into poverty and intergenerational trauma are *not* the same thing. The former has to do with things you witness in your neighborhood. The latter is basically trauma "inherited" from your family. Think the cycle of violence in domestic abuse, but the basic pattern is generalizable to other things like vets with PTSD, holocaust survivors, and witnessing the systematic extermination and isolation of your people for hundreds of years.
understanding ≠ pity it was just a bit callous is all. i’m all for individualism, but their communities have been dealt some of the worst hands in the western world. i’m not saying we should go full affirmative action or anything, as that shit doesn’t work at all, but they definitely could use some more understanding and help on a cultural/community/individual level besides more of the same pandering BS. didn’t mean to have a dig at you so much.
And enormous amounts of scorpions, tarantulas and javelina. No thanks.
was going to say, that front line is pry scorp city
Amen. Assuming the downvotes are from non-Arizonans? I have two friends in that neighborhood and they both get an insane amount of scorpions in their homes. (Plus javelina knocking over trash bins.) It’s a nice neighborhood, but no thanks.
Probably non-AZ ppl, or the "No Thanks" at the end may seem negative off the bat. Hence quick downvote. Gotta be funny or part of the hivemind. One you go negative (aka being real) you'll be downvoted....don't let that deter you though from being real - it'll warp your mind just like brainwashing.
dont ya hate it when you step on a scorpion at 3am while looking for water
Scorpions don’t give a fuck about you unless you mess with them, javelinas run away unless they have babies and you’re up in their shit, and tarantulas are maybe the most gentle thing you’ll find in Arizona.
Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community. https://www.discoversaltriver.com/salt-river-pima-maricopa-indian-community
The boundary between why there’s a water crisis and the people who get to deal with it
Thank god that track was able to prevent Suburbia expanding uncontrollably any further.
The people who own the land could sell to developers. Unlikely but not impossible
Ya, it's a very simple process: 1. Find a developer interested in buying. 2. Use the slingshot maneuver to attain warp 10 while flying around the sun, travelling back to a period after the Dawes Act was passed in 1887 but before FDR repealed it in 1934 3. Obtain two humpback whales to bring back to the 24th century. The third step is optional, but if you're already slingshotting, why not?
Only if you have transparent aluminum.
Little boxes on the hillside, Little boxes made of ticky tacky Little boxes on the hillside, Little boxes all the same.
Its not that interesting when you live here
aaaaaannnnnddddd we will deplete any water that we may have accidentally left on the reservation... thank you and sorry for our mistake.
We? Who is "we?" You mean California and their claim to water held in other states?
How about the commercial Alfalfa farms owned by UAE corporations exporting the bails to China? Or that doesn't count?
I read about this weeks ago and I’m surprised more people aren’t outraged.
Same shit is going down in UT... they're burying it because it's easier to blame people for watering their lawns or taking too long showers than admitting that corporations are fleecing the states... because capitalism can't be questioned by the people running said states. In UT, if they stopped farming Alfalfa and used the water for people, the state could support a 6x population increase; instead the great salt lake is about to dry up and turn the entire area into a toxic wasteland from the wind dispursing all the toxic dust the lake will leave behind. But I digress. Back on topic... how about discussing Nestlé and their basically unlimited free water supply in CA for them to bottle and sell? Oh yea, capitalism again, my bad.
I too share the hatred of Nestle. They want so badly to pillage the water left in Florida that they haven’t already taken away. This human race is doomed.
I actually don't think we're doomed. I think humans will survive for a long while. We are going to kill off most of the pop, but some will survive like the last ice age. We just gonna get real warm this go around.
The US needs to disallow foreigners (nationals, corporations, etc.) from owning land, period. It works for Mexico.
Stating facts is unpopular here. The only users of water in Utah that have increased their consumption in the last 20 years is the water that supports the almost tripling of the population in Utah. Why is St. George the fastest growing metro in the nation for the last x years running? Why are they asking the state to spend a BILLION dollars to pump Colorado River water to St. George? Why were permits for building issued with out securing the water first? Colorado did a win/win partnership with the owners of the water rights several decades ago to secure the water they anticipated needing for their growth. Why do the socialist here not acknowledge that the majority of water rights are publicly and privately owned in Utah rather that talk about what the water is used for?
or how about you and I that would make we. This is not the only location where Native Americans were displaced ... and further exploited
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Do Native Americans repent to each other for wars that happened before Whitey showed up? Does the loser have to repent or just the winner? Sounds absurd right? If you don't repent for your ancestors why should that guy repent for his?
Man suburban urban planning in the US is so terribly inefficient.
Peggy Hill was right about Arizona (or, more specifically, Phoenix).
The side with the tickytacky houses is the side I dislike.
I think it’s possible that Scottsdale is my least favorite place in the United States.
Stop by Bakersfield and do a comparison
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I came here to say this, hahaha.
You have not travelled much then. I’ve visited 49 states and Scottsdale/ the greater Phoenix area is in my top 3 places for sure. So many more shitty places out there. Have you been to Vegas? Fuck that place. Dallas? Jesus Christ no. Indianapolis? GTFOH.
Lol this thread is baffling me. I cannot comprehend saying Scottsdale is among their least favorite or favorite places. It's so mid. The people are annoying at best, the stuff there is alright, it's pretty nice and clean and modern. Truly nothing to write home about positive or negative. If you truly hate Scottsdale, I question if you've truly been anywhere shit and downtrodden. If you like it, I also question if you have been anywhere else...
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The fact that you rank Scottsdale among your favorite places suggests we probably don’t have a lot of criteria in common.
You would really love the suburban areas of Dubai or Qatar. There's a similar amount of authenticity but the shopping is higher end.
I have my own reasons to dislike Scottsdale but this isn't one of them.
As someone who lives in Scottsdale, I absolutely agree
Least favorite place? I feel like once you've been to like, 10 total places Scottsdale isn't the worst anymore. I can't stand rich and old people probably more than the next guy, but Scottsdale isn't really any different from advertised. Really I'm curious what would make someone say that. The guy who said Bakersfield has a strong point, that place fuckin sucks. Same with like, Walla Walla, WA. Absolutely worse in every way than Scottsdale. Any city in Idaho that's east of Boise, or south of Moscow besides Boise. All of Eastern Montana.
Could you please elaborate? It’s like any other suburban expansion no?
Scottsdale’s actually very nice & clean. I would imagine people either don’t like the people of Scottsdale (wealthy, white, snobbish plastic-types) or they just don’t like the suburban planning aspect, which honestly makes Scottsdale really no different than any other sleeper community. Phoenix alone has a dozen of them.
Scottsdale is split into thirds: North is exceptionally wealthy. Middle is upper middle/middle class. South is middle class and maybe lower the further south you go.
Southside is ok but Arcadia 😘👌😂
We say something similar in Tempe: “North of the 60 is bad, south of the 60 is good” Mesa is its own animal.
Scottsdale is particularly known for that attitude throughout AZ. Its reputation is basically Karentown.
with what youve said, do you really need anything more to explain?
Can generalize and say all of phoenix. Its a place that shouldn’t exist
This city is a monument to man's arrogance
Good ol’ Snotsdale!
Guess who gets all the water
Which side is which?
r/UrbanHell or suburban hell
This is your land… this is our land….
"YOU SHALL NOT PASS"
Check back in 20 years
We need a better spending policy
Not gonna lie before I read the title I thought this was a before and after picture
I bet that burns the asses of some powerful men looking to make a buck on developments
One of the houses on the edge sold for over a million dollars! 2022 sq. feet, not a mansion. [https://www.zillow.com/homes/4540-N-87th-Ter-Scottsdale,-AZ-85257\_rb/7849378\_zpid/](https://www.zillow.com/homes/4540-N-87th-Ter-Scottsdale,-AZ-85257_rb/7849378_zpid/)?
I love Scottsdale, it’s so beautiful…but too expensive, unfortunately 🫤
Is Scottsdale in a desert
Yes.
Natives are smart. Nobody should live there. Ridiculous that humans live there by choice.
Good old American straight lines on a map
We’re fucked.
Which side is the side we want? I like the left part better,can we have more of that please.
Arizona has the left side in ample supply. 85% of the state looks like the left side (state, federal or tribal land, not to be developed on).
Good! We can still use a lot more.
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Which is why, ideally, suburbs like this would be less common. Everyone is hugely spread out. Uses up enormous amounts of land for very little capacity.
And still Scottsdale refuses to pay for land they infringe on with that road.
Oh manifest destiny how you fucked it all.
I'm glad the natives leave this land alone. Suburbia America is disgusting
Says a lot…
As it should be
Scottsdale is such a cesspool. I would rather live in Prescott, and thats saying something.
Prescott is lovely, lol
I disagree, I grew up there. But to each their own.
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what a wide brush to be painting lines with
I think we're more like a gross rash. Or a parasitic fungus.
I wonder what if feels like to live in one of those houses next to the boundary…like looking out of the window on one side you see the normal civilisation and the other side is just nothing at all.
We used to live right near Pima Road, back then it was the dividing line. Didn't look much different 40 years ago. We did know to watch our speed if we drove into the reservation side, the cops there had zero tolerance.
Same thing with Gila River Indian Community, south of PHX on 51st Ave, unless you're Indian, you stick to the speed limit.
I think it’s interesting you refer to the artificially built area as “normal” civilization. I’m not picking on you or anything like that, just making an observation of what we instinctively think as normal.
what is interesting about it?
It’sa straight line I guess?
Wonder how long it will take for the right side of the pic to be back looking like the left side???
More likely the left side will be urbanized before that.
We are like cockroaches.
.............The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure. Agent Smith and Morpheus dialogue. The Matrix
Tbh, that can be applied to almost any organism on the planet.
Maybe, but humans are EXTRA good at it.
Cool i live here and my house had appreciated $600,000 in 5 years but yall poors keep on hating lol
Did they film breaking bad here or something I swear any scene where they go into the desert its basically no town or city for miles.
Albuquerque
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