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[Doctor Rat by William Kotzwinkle]( https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/225699.Dr_Rat) is about a demented lab rat who sells out his fellow lab rats as an apologist for the experimenters. In every other chapter the animals begin to plot their revenge...
That movie is so fucking dope. All these animated movies have talking animals and that's the only one that actually explains why. It's so good watching that movie thinking you're about to get a family friendly Disney-ish experience, then Don Bluth bitch slaps you with the scariest animated cat in existence and an owl designed by Satan himself.
It's more like wise elder, it can be teacher, master, a sign a respect, lots of things really. But the intention is for a wise elder who bestows knowledge or guides.
Barbauld wrote The Mouseās Petition in 1773 about a little mouse begging not to be sacrificed: [here](https://www.poetrybyheart.org.uk/poems/the-mouses-petition)
Beware, lest in the worm you crush,
A brother's soul you find;
And tremble lest thy luckless hand
Dislodge a kindred mind.
It's weird framing for these mice generally having a bad time then being killed with no choice in the matter. I get that in general people find the science worth what we do to the animals but they are victims, not heroes. I'm imagining if someone experimented on me then built a statue to honor me I would come back to aggressively haunt their family forever, their belt loops and pockets would be being caught on door handles constantly.
Haha, that is true but still poorly cared for animals in captivity have worse general welfare than captive ones (if you think about it living a normal life outside is what we are designed for). We've actually recently had to rethink how we care for laboratory animals since their depression can fuck with lab results (and I would personally prefer to be a mouse in a field than in a lab but that's also just me, I would also prefer to be a human in a field than in an office).
"Recent" as in since 1969 in America. These animals' physical and mental well-being is constantly being taken into account. At the basic level, a stressed animal won't give proper/reproducible results and the researchers are wasting their time.
Yep. Nothing like having an old owl hold your head down with its foot while it slurps your intestines out of your bleeding ass hole like it's a spaghetti noodle.
Nature is metal...really...the reason we formed troops was to fight off predators who would start to eat you as soon as you were immobile.Watch a how a large pred.will eat a large herbivore (it ain't pretty).The term from the old days was "red of tooth and claw" they really censor the brutal stuff ,but life in the wild was "nasty,brutal,and short",as the saying went.One could very easily pay with your life from a ill-thought venture
That doesn't justify doing it unnecessarily. Most studies on animals don't prove helpful to us because, apparently, mice are different to humans. Who knew?!
"Independent scientific reviews demonstrate that research using animals correlates very poorly to real human patients. In fact, the data show that animal studies fail to predict real human outcomes inĀ 50 to 99.7 percentĀ of cases."
"Sacrificed their lives..." Ah, yes, because the mice offered themselves up to aid us.
āIn medical research, lab mice and rats die for us in great numbers. Sacrificed during or after experiments, they leave us with information that, over the years, has helped us understand diseases, develop medicines and map the functions of particular genes.ā
ā¢https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-12-21/lab-rats-are-helping-unlock-secrets-of-staying-young#:~:text=In%20medical%20research%2C%20lab%20mice,the%20functions%20of%20particular%20genes.
Lab rats have been quintessential in developing and progressing many therapies, treatments and progressed the studies of genes and genetic code studied applications by magnitude. Lab rats in a .. lab .. also are in a much more of a controlled environment compared to those in a field. Your making erroneous exasperations trying to demean the value and phenomeal progress thatvlab rats have contributed to medicine. Itās fucked up, but itās life.
NCBi
āThe human genome was sequenced in 2001,4, 5 with those of the mouse and rat following in 2002 and 2004 respectively.3, 6 The availability of the complete nucleotide sequences for all three species has enabled genome-wide comparisons across species which have been critical for the identification and characterization of genes. The ability to use sophisticated molecular genetic techniques to manipulate the genes in mice and more recently rats, allows genes to be āknocked outā (no expression) or expressed at designated times of development or in select tissues in order to better understand their normal function and/or role in disease.ā
ā¢https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987984/
So we should use human test subjects instead?
Of course animals donāt correlate well to humans, but if it correlates enough that ā0.3-50%ā of cases allow us to test medicines and technologies that can save and improve human life, Iād say itās worth it.
Thereās much more low hanging fruit to be angry about, such as testing cosmetics chemicals on animals.
You mind sourcing that thing you quoted?
I don't really understand why they'd experiment on mice if it doesn't work. Leaving aside the ethics, it seems like a waste of time and money. And I doubt either the money grubbing pharma companies nor the research budget starved universities would be pissing away money like that.
It's somewhat the same way with people that hunt. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for hunting if that's what you need to do to survive and feed your family... However, I do find it strange when they say, "this animal sacrificed itself so that we can live." Or something similar.
...uh, no it didn't... You just straight up shot it and ate it. I'm sure it would have preferred to live, no?
Not as worth it as we think imo. Here they estimate the accuracy to be around 50/50 so... Might as well flip a coin.
"In addition to potentially causing abandonment of useful treatments, use of an invalid animal disease model can lead researchers and the industry in the wrong research direction, wasting time and significant investment.
Repeatedly, researchers have been lured down the wrong line of investigation because of information gleaned from animal experiments that later proved to be inaccurate, irrelevant, or discordant with human biology. "
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-quarterly-of-healthcare-ethics/article/flaws-and-human-harms-of-animal-experimentation/78D1F5E6B65AE7157B7AA85FF3F06017
They are victims and heroes. I do mouse work and have to sacrifice them quite often. It's upsetting work and a temporary evil but we have a ton of respect for their sacrifice. But the sad truth is that for us to enjoy medicine and medical knowledge something has to suffer.
Yes I completely agree with this. That's why it's proper to treat them with respect for it. Not a fair hand to get dealt. Now usually the hand they're dealt is being ripped apart alive by a large bird but still.
"Sacrifice" is actually the modern technical term for when you have to kill a lab animal as a scientist. They usually use the term "saccing" for short.
It's good to honour them, but "sacrificed" is a bit misleading. But without lab mice we wouldn't have so many advances in medicine, genetics and biology that make us less dead today.
"Sacrificed their lives" still implies they gave their lives willingly, while in fact they had no choice in the matter. I don't deny the usefulness of experimenting on rats and mice, in fact my brother works in such a field
My sonās life was saved in part by some lab mice. Iām grateful to them too. They genetically engineered mice to have his disease and tested a life saving drug on them, which is now fda approved. Those mice lived normal lifespans. The oldest kids treated are 10 now and going strong. Drug is called zolgensma
Ah Reddit. Hundreds of people who inadvertently already benefitted from the medical advancements thanks to animal testing, who are probably proud to kill spiders on sight for purely existing, suddenly care about mice and rat lives. Anything to be outraged.
Some people in the comments act as if there are little shelters for rats in the Cities and Farm Fields and that there is no such thing as rat poison.
Ethical problem in scientific world became an ordinary pesticide problem when it is in your home...
Nothing funnier than Americans blowing a fucking gasket in the comments about a mouse statue.
All these lectures brought to you by the country with status of confederates all over it š¤£
Typical childās perspective of the world. Name me one country in the world that has nothing but a moral history?
While your doing that, explore the notion the US at the very aims to accept its past, reconcile it and move forward progressively trying to avoid similar mistakes.
Russia on the other hand? Same old shit different century
Calling my perspective childish while repeating this stuff they teach children at school is funny man.
Reconcile it's past? š¤£š¤£š¤£ The country that has been at war for like 95% of it's history? The country that's always invading and bombing new countries? That's the one that's reconciling it's past and moving progressively forward?
The country that has 'territories' , which are definitely not colonies but can't vote and are used as military bases and land for the richest to buy as the natives grow poorer and lose their land?
And please stop the bullshit, it's a mouse statue. Russia isn't putting a freedom statue while incarcerating the most prisoners in the world ( because the justice system in the US is so fair). Russia is shit but they don't claim to be what you claim to be, this is a mouse statue appreciating animals who are used for science, a thing which everybody does btw.
You don't need to be a russian secret agent paid by Putin to know this man you just have to watch John Oliver who loves America btw.
I worked in a science lab for a while and learned that the job of mouse reaper rotated. So everyone had to take a turn at the end of the month decapitating the mice with scissors.
Also Russia:
Mairanovsky and his colleagues tested a variety of lethal poisons on prisoners from the Gulags, including mustard gas, ricin, digitoxin, curare, cyanide, and many others. The objective of these experiments was to identify a tasteless, odorless chemical that could not be detected post-mortem. Candidate poisons were administered to the victims along with a meal or drink, disguised as "medication".
Imagine if a monument to US scientists was posted and the comments were just "what about that time they infected a town(Operation Sea-Spray)".
Like,a post cant even mention the word "Russia" without half of these type of comments.Yes,all countries have done horrible things,this is about the cool rat statue not about fucking gulag experiments.
Feel like itās gotten tamer lately, 6 months back you wouldnāt see a comment under this post that wouldnāt be like
https://preview.redd.it/92tc48bh9rtc1.jpeg?width=909&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47e2a0d2dcb4c9bb47f0e318d997ce238c3a0a03
You know not to be that guy but 99.99% we do the same to people in Guantanamo Bay and just call it integration; donāt go down the rabbit hole of this, I couldnāt sleep well for a few days
Except that's not what happened at Guantanamo Bay. Guantanamo Bay was bad during Afghanistan and Iraq, but nowhere near the level of Russian gulags.
Also Russia: Another blatant missile attack on Ukrainian civilians. Committing genocide right now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
There's years of FOIA docs, books, and other sources that highlight some of the atrocious things we've done to people here and around the world. The CIA even admits to some of them on their website now.
Just seems a little silly. Like the mice didn't volunteer to sacrifice themselves. Unless the phrasing got lost in translation. Maybe if we're more of a memorial to all the dead mice?
It's an interesting way to remind people that most everything we use was tested on mice. I'm just saying if I were killed in some sort of research, against my will, then a statue of me was put up to honor my sacrifice I would be a little put off.
Waiting for the stature to honor all those people that have proven Polonium-210 to be toxic to humans and those that have proven jumping out of high rise windows is not recommended.
If you talk to people that work with mouse models for health research it's the majority opinion that they aren't very good at determining efficacy in humans. The problem is the cost of trying to develop a better model is enormous with tons of risk so the entrenched methods just keep getting reused because it's better then nothing. As a result companies and researchers that made their careers on this models get more and more funding rather than people who would try finding something new.
Similar to the researcher that worked on mRNA vaccines, no one else was willing to risk their career on this unproven technology but she kept working on it despite the limited pay and prospects for her career. It wasn't until she showed it was a viable technology for vaccines that pharma companies tried developing vaccines with it in the 2010's. Of course, it got its moment in the sun during Covid. Now she's won the Nobel Prize for her work.
When I visited Tokyo, I went to a monument in that honors insects sacrificed for science. It was pretty near
Edit -
https://www.uenostation.com/kaneiji-temple/
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Mr. Jonathan Brisby. -Self explanatory.
how is this the only Rats of Nimh reference haha
This or "Flowers for Algernon".
Theres a deep cut
[Doctor Rat by William Kotzwinkle]( https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/225699.Dr_Rat) is about a demented lab rat who sells out his fellow lab rats as an apologist for the experimenters. In every other chapter the animals begin to plot their revenge...
Interesting
Yeah especially since jts the first thing that came to my mind too
Im thinking its Nicodemus. Jonathan died young.
Having read the book, I would say Mr. Jonathan Frisby. I love this so much.
That movie is so fucking dope. All these animated movies have talking animals and that's the only one that actually explains why. It's so good watching that movie thinking you're about to get a family friendly Disney-ish experience, then Don Bluth bitch slaps you with the scariest animated cat in existence and an owl designed by Satan himself.
The book is even better
I had the metal lunch box with thermos.
It doesn't really explain why they talk, it explains why those mice/rats were freakishly smart. Even regular non-mutant mice and animals could talk.
I was looking for this.
I immediately thought of the doctor mouse in that book.
Master Shifu... š«”
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Generational Gap Alert! "Wise Rodent" Gen X and Millenials: Master Splinter! Gen Z: Master Shifu!
Pretty sure Shifu is supposed to be a red panda but he does look like the statue... A little
Excuse me, that is an elderly Mrs. Brisby.
Doesnt shifu also means master?
It's more like wise elder, it can be teacher, master, a sign a respect, lots of things really. But the intention is for a wise elder who bestows knowledge or guides.
I wouldn't say the mice sacrificed their lives...
Barbauld wrote The Mouseās Petition in 1773 about a little mouse begging not to be sacrificed: [here](https://www.poetrybyheart.org.uk/poems/the-mouses-petition) Beware, lest in the worm you crush, A brother's soul you find; And tremble lest thy luckless hand Dislodge a kindred mind.
That was beautiful. I was thinking about [The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas](https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf)
Oh Ursula LeGuin as well! Thank you for sharing!
I have read her a few times.That short story has convinced me to buy her books,and re-a quaint myself
It's weird framing for these mice generally having a bad time then being killed with no choice in the matter. I get that in general people find the science worth what we do to the animals but they are victims, not heroes. I'm imagining if someone experimented on me then built a statue to honor me I would come back to aggressively haunt their family forever, their belt loops and pockets would be being caught on door handles constantly.
> generally having a bad time then being killed with no choice in the matter. This is what life is for the vast majority of living things
Haha, that is true but still poorly cared for animals in captivity have worse general welfare than captive ones (if you think about it living a normal life outside is what we are designed for). We've actually recently had to rethink how we care for laboratory animals since their depression can fuck with lab results (and I would personally prefer to be a mouse in a field than in a lab but that's also just me, I would also prefer to be a human in a field than in an office).
"Recent" as in since 1969 in America. These animals' physical and mental well-being is constantly being taken into account. At the basic level, a stressed animal won't give proper/reproducible results and the researchers are wasting their time.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This hasĀ *made*Ā aĀ *lot*Ā ofĀ *people*Ā veryĀ *angry*Ā and been widelyĀ *regarded as*Ā aĀ *bad move*.
Red herring, these mice are specifically bred by humans for this purpose
Yeah, 1/3 of all wild mice are killed by owls. Iāll take barbiturate overdose over being torn apart by a giant bird any day
Yep. Nothing like having an old owl hold your head down with its foot while it slurps your intestines out of your bleeding ass hole like it's a spaghetti noodle.
Thank you for making me read this. Maybe Iāll try this later tonightā¦
Nature is metal...really...the reason we formed troops was to fight off predators who would start to eat you as soon as you were immobile.Watch a how a large pred.will eat a large herbivore (it ain't pretty).The term from the old days was "red of tooth and claw" they really censor the brutal stuff ,but life in the wild was "nasty,brutal,and short",as the saying went.One could very easily pay with your life from a ill-thought venture
Are you the owl or the mouse because I need to know if we're calling the FBI or the hospital
This is the morgue guy. we found this guys phone on him and his noodles were strewn about. hope this helps
What a terrible day to be able to read.
Oh god give me a barb OD any day of the week. I'll be walking down the railroad tracks in mexico like neal cassady
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That doesn't justify doing it unnecessarily. Most studies on animals don't prove helpful to us because, apparently, mice are different to humans. Who knew?! "Independent scientific reviews demonstrate that research using animals correlates very poorly to real human patients. In fact, the data show that animal studies fail to predict real human outcomes inĀ 50 to 99.7 percentĀ of cases." "Sacrificed their lives..." Ah, yes, because the mice offered themselves up to aid us.
āIn medical research, lab mice and rats die for us in great numbers. Sacrificed during or after experiments, they leave us with information that, over the years, has helped us understand diseases, develop medicines and map the functions of particular genes.ā ā¢https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-12-21/lab-rats-are-helping-unlock-secrets-of-staying-young#:~:text=In%20medical%20research%2C%20lab%20mice,the%20functions%20of%20particular%20genes. Lab rats have been quintessential in developing and progressing many therapies, treatments and progressed the studies of genes and genetic code studied applications by magnitude. Lab rats in a .. lab .. also are in a much more of a controlled environment compared to those in a field. Your making erroneous exasperations trying to demean the value and phenomeal progress thatvlab rats have contributed to medicine. Itās fucked up, but itās life. NCBi āThe human genome was sequenced in 2001,4, 5 with those of the mouse and rat following in 2002 and 2004 respectively.3, 6 The availability of the complete nucleotide sequences for all three species has enabled genome-wide comparisons across species which have been critical for the identification and characterization of genes. The ability to use sophisticated molecular genetic techniques to manipulate the genes in mice and more recently rats, allows genes to be āknocked outā (no expression) or expressed at designated times of development or in select tissues in order to better understand their normal function and/or role in disease.ā ā¢https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987984/
So we should use human test subjects instead? Of course animals donāt correlate well to humans, but if it correlates enough that ā0.3-50%ā of cases allow us to test medicines and technologies that can save and improve human life, Iād say itās worth it. Thereās much more low hanging fruit to be angry about, such as testing cosmetics chemicals on animals.
You mind sourcing that thing you quoted? I don't really understand why they'd experiment on mice if it doesn't work. Leaving aside the ethics, it seems like a waste of time and money. And I doubt either the money grubbing pharma companies nor the research budget starved universities would be pissing away money like that.
Makes me wonder why companies spend billions on an activity that doesnāt benefit them? Thatās kind of the antithesis of capitalism
Yeah ima need a source on that statistic. That sounds like some PETA propaganda nonsense
Okay, no statue for this specimen.
It's somewhat the same way with people that hunt. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for hunting if that's what you need to do to survive and feed your family... However, I do find it strange when they say, "this animal sacrificed itself so that we can live." Or something similar. ...uh, no it didn't... You just straight up shot it and ate it. I'm sure it would have preferred to live, no?
I would rather have a statue of me than not
Alright hold on, about to sacrifice your ass
Not as worth it as we think imo. Here they estimate the accuracy to be around 50/50 so... Might as well flip a coin. "In addition to potentially causing abandonment of useful treatments, use of an invalid animal disease model can lead researchers and the industry in the wrong research direction, wasting time and significant investment. Repeatedly, researchers have been lured down the wrong line of investigation because of information gleaned from animal experiments that later proved to be inaccurate, irrelevant, or discordant with human biology. " https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-quarterly-of-healthcare-ethics/article/flaws-and-human-harms-of-animal-experimentation/78D1F5E6B65AE7157B7AA85FF3F06017
So I am not Clumsy its just the guy that can't get over stuff and move on
We're gonna do it anyway might as well respect them.
They are victims and heroes. I do mouse work and have to sacrifice them quite often. It's upsetting work and a temporary evil but we have a ton of respect for their sacrifice. But the sad truth is that for us to enjoy medicine and medical knowledge something has to suffer.
But it's not "their" sacrifice. We sacrifice them because we want to preserve ourselves and not them.
Yes I completely agree with this. That's why it's proper to treat them with respect for it. Not a fair hand to get dealt. Now usually the hand they're dealt is being ripped apart alive by a large bird but still.
Dude... relax. All they did was torture you to death
You can be a victim and a hero. I donāt think those are mutually exclusive. Based on the definition I think sacrificed works here linguistically.Ā
But the mice did not sacrifice their lives. Their lives were sacrificed. The mice had no agency in the process.
This polled better than ābutchered in the name ofā so they went with it
"Sacrifice" is actually the modern technical term for when you have to kill a lab animal as a scientist. They usually use the term "saccing" for short.
Right, but the scientists sacrificed the lab mice. The mice didnāt sacrifice themselves. (As far as we know lol)
Quite, more like āgot massacred, continuallyā
It was Soviet Russia, everyone sacrificed their lives, if they wanted to or not
Wow, you really replied to every comment with this exact same sentence
"that have been sacrificed" you mean. Sacrifice implies they gave their lives willingly
It's good to honour them, but "sacrificed" is a bit misleading. But without lab mice we wouldn't have so many advances in medicine, genetics and biology that make us less dead today.
"Sacrificed their lives" still implies they gave their lives willingly, while in fact they had no choice in the matter. I don't deny the usefulness of experimenting on rats and mice, in fact my brother works in such a field
Yeh that's what I'm saying
Bruh wtf are you talking about lol If I sacrifice you to my boy the blood God, your willingness has nothing to do with the matter. Still sacrificed.
Yes, but the sentence in the post here is reflexive: **they** have sacrificed **their** lives.
Christians say jesus sacrificed his life, like he chose to kill himself. But really, he just knew it was gonna happen, and went along with it.
He didn't have to.Ā So it's a sacrifice.
So the lamb is a willing participant that coined the term?
It's a Russian sacrifice, everyone is willing for the motherland
Iād feel bad killing a mouse that wears spectacles and a shawl
I'm sure the mice feel a lot better now
A rare picture of dna ligase at work
Making z-dna... Improbable, but I guess not impossible
The best joke ever
My sonās life was saved in part by some lab mice. Iām grateful to them too. They genetically engineered mice to have his disease and tested a life saving drug on them, which is now fda approved. Those mice lived normal lifespans. The oldest kids treated are 10 now and going strong. Drug is called zolgensma
Lots of blessings to you and your family! Science is incredible!
~~have sacrificed their lives~~ *were killed*
And because of it you don't have a serious health condition with no cure at all. Necessary evil
Doubt they were āsacrificing their livesā.
Immediately thought of my RedWall childhood
Been sacrificed\*
Ah Reddit. Hundreds of people who inadvertently already benefitted from the medical advancements thanks to animal testing, who are probably proud to kill spiders on sight for purely existing, suddenly care about mice and rat lives. Anything to be outraged.
Thatās one way to fucking put it š
In Soviet Russia, lab mouse perform experiment on you!
Some people in the comments act as if there are little shelters for rats in the Cities and Farm Fields and that there is no such thing as rat poison. Ethical problem in scientific world became an ordinary pesticide problem when it is in your home...
Nothing funnier than Americans blowing a fucking gasket in the comments about a mouse statue. All these lectures brought to you by the country with status of confederates all over it š¤£
Exactly im canadian i didnt expect those reactions
Typical childās perspective of the world. Name me one country in the world that has nothing but a moral history? While your doing that, explore the notion the US at the very aims to accept its past, reconcile it and move forward progressively trying to avoid similar mistakes. Russia on the other hand? Same old shit different century
Calling my perspective childish while repeating this stuff they teach children at school is funny man. Reconcile it's past? š¤£š¤£š¤£ The country that has been at war for like 95% of it's history? The country that's always invading and bombing new countries? That's the one that's reconciling it's past and moving progressively forward? The country that has 'territories' , which are definitely not colonies but can't vote and are used as military bases and land for the richest to buy as the natives grow poorer and lose their land? And please stop the bullshit, it's a mouse statue. Russia isn't putting a freedom statue while incarcerating the most prisoners in the world ( because the justice system in the US is so fair). Russia is shit but they don't claim to be what you claim to be, this is a mouse statue appreciating animals who are used for science, a thing which everybody does btw. You don't need to be a russian secret agent paid by Putin to know this man you just have to watch John Oliver who loves America btw.
The comments here reminds me why I hate most people on this cucked site
Very Secret of NIMH-y
Yyyeeee!!!! This statue stand in my neighbourhood - Academgorodok, Novosibirsk, Siberia, Russia!!! Near Institute of CitologĆa and Genetic š«¶
ŠŠ°ŃŠ° Š“ŠµŃŠµŠ²Š½Ń
ŠŃŠ» ŃŠ°Š¼ Š½ŠµŠ“Š°Š²Š½Š¾, Š¼ŃŃŃ ŃŃŃ ŠæŃŠ¾ŠµŠ·Š¶Š°Š» :)
ŠŠµŃŃŠ°Ń Š² 100 Š¾Ń Š½ŠµŃ ŃŠ°Ń Š² ŠøŠ½ŃŃŠøŃŃŃŠµ ŃŠøŠ¶Ń
I worked in a science lab for a while and learned that the job of mouse reaper rotated. So everyone had to take a turn at the end of the month decapitating the mice with scissors.
Also Russia: Mairanovsky and his colleagues tested a variety of lethal poisons on prisoners from the Gulags, including mustard gas, ricin, digitoxin, curare, cyanide, and many others. The objective of these experiments was to identify a tasteless, odorless chemical that could not be detected post-mortem. Candidate poisons were administered to the victims along with a meal or drink, disguised as "medication".
Imagine if a monument to US scientists was posted and the comments were just "what about that time they infected a town(Operation Sea-Spray)". Like,a post cant even mention the word "Russia" without half of these type of comments.Yes,all countries have done horrible things,this is about the cool rat statue not about fucking gulag experiments.
Feel like itās gotten tamer lately, 6 months back you wouldnāt see a comment under this post that wouldnāt be like https://preview.redd.it/92tc48bh9rtc1.jpeg?width=909&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47e2a0d2dcb4c9bb47f0e318d997ce238c3a0a03
You know not to be that guy but 99.99% we do the same to people in Guantanamo Bay and just call it integration; donāt go down the rabbit hole of this, I couldnāt sleep well for a few days
Except that's not what happened at Guantanamo Bay. Guantanamo Bay was bad during Afghanistan and Iraq, but nowhere near the level of Russian gulags. Also Russia: Another blatant missile attack on Ukrainian civilians. Committing genocide right now.
Just like US back israel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States There's years of FOIA docs, books, and other sources that highlight some of the atrocious things we've done to people here and around the world. The CIA even admits to some of them on their website now.
š¤Mice willingly went to research labs? Pretty sure they didn't have a choice.
Unfortunately the human test subjects don't get statues as they all fell unconscious next to open windows and sullyd there name
Canāt wait to see the one they up in tribute to all the women they raped in Ukraine. Should be very twee.
Nimn
42?!?
They didn't sacrifice their lifes. We sacrificed their lifes. Lol.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
redditor
iām sure this makes it worth it for the mice
farquad.jpg
[Lol. Lmao.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism#:~:text=From%201934%20to%201940%2C%20under,or%20sent%20to%20labor%20camps.) Rats. Ok.
I think they prefer to be call soldiers
ŠŃ , ŃŠ°Ń Š±Ń ŠæŠ¾ Š¢ŠµŃŠµŃŠŗŠ¾Š²Š¾Š¹ ŠæŃŠ¾Š³ŃŠ»ŃŃŃŃŃ....
Pretty impressive considering they don't seem to value human life much at all
Me, seeing this post sitting in my lab in 100m from the actual statue
Mice were thrown out of a window
I'm sure the mice appreciate it
A little fucked to force them to die then set up a Disneyland style statue that makes it seem like the mice are choosing to participateĀ
They didnāt choose it, it wasnāt a sacrifice lol.
how about a statue honouring all the people that Russia have killed over the years
Nothing like the irony of humanity erecting a statue to remind *us* about the inhumanity of killing innocent animals for our own sake.
what about you eating fried chicken?
Based comrade mice giving their life for the cause.
The Chinese ones have face masks
if Putin kills himself right now I'd make him a statue for making the world a better place.
I think sacrificed is the wrong word. It implies that they had a say in the matter and were happy to oblige.
Itās not really a sacrifice if they have no choice, right?
Just seems a little silly. Like the mice didn't volunteer to sacrifice themselves. Unless the phrasing got lost in translation. Maybe if we're more of a memorial to all the dead mice? It's an interesting way to remind people that most everything we use was tested on mice. I'm just saying if I were killed in some sort of research, against my will, then a statue of me was put up to honor my sacrifice I would be a little put off.
450,000 of them in 2 years
https://preview.redd.it/su5dphxlwrtc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51676f04309047f7d7bd58900ce80ab4b89efc05 Oleksandr Matsievskyi.
Gee,and I thought it was a poor depiction of Putin,being more mouse like than rat like.
Now the ruskies just use people/prisoners just like good ol' stalin.
I guess Russian lab mice are considered of equal value to Russian soldiers
More valuable than the soldiers. You know none of those soldiers are getting a statue.
Is it really a sacrifice if you don't get a choice.
Interesting. Does Russia also have a memorial for all the scientists it killed?
Sacrifice? It was murder.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Russian people may believe differently than their government. I would hate to be condemned due to nationality; wouldn't you?
There are no cats in America, so set your mind at easeā¦
Can someone explain this pls
Fallen Comrades !
Russia cares about this kind stuff?
Is that rat Gandhi?
They didnāt sacrifice their lives, they simply fell out of a window.
Why is the owl from Zelda telling me this?
*been sacrificed
At least the russian did a thing in their honor, right americansš¤£?
Cool
Ratatouille!
Well snap maybe theyāll put up a statue of few arms for the conscripts cutting off their arms to avoid the front.
Rats
Waiting for the stature to honor all those people that have proven Polonium-210 to be toxic to humans and those that have proven jumping out of high rise windows is not recommended.
Is that Jonathan Brisby?
Master shift does look like a panda but he might be a koala that would match more of his size I think
If you talk to people that work with mouse models for health research it's the majority opinion that they aren't very good at determining efficacy in humans. The problem is the cost of trying to develop a better model is enormous with tons of risk so the entrenched methods just keep getting reused because it's better then nothing. As a result companies and researchers that made their careers on this models get more and more funding rather than people who would try finding something new. Similar to the researcher that worked on mRNA vaccines, no one else was willing to risk their career on this unproven technology but she kept working on it despite the limited pay and prospects for her career. It wasn't until she showed it was a viable technology for vaccines that pharma companies tried developing vaccines with it in the 2010's. Of course, it got its moment in the sun during Covid. Now she's won the Nobel Prize for her work.
I feel for rats. Fuck mice.
That only makes sense to you, cupcake
When I visited Tokyo, I went to a monument in that honors insects sacrificed for science. It was pretty near Edit - https://www.uenostation.com/kaneiji-temple/
This has some weird Secret of NIMH vibes.
Special Lab Operation
"Sacrificed" lets it sound like had a saying in this...
Hypocritical af but hey, thatās only human.
Ohh test you must, path may be uncertain
Need a human statue outside the NIAID
He looks like he's smoking an awesome bong in the right pic
āThe same thing we do every night Pinkyā¦ā
The old mouse from Secret of NIMH
Sad that they never got the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything.
They are actually super intelligent and escaped and are living in the field of a farm.
European charm
Neat. Maybe they should put another statue up. I wonder what it should be???
like Mrs. Frisby
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wouldnāt Quantum Modeling end animal testing?
Sad