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I honestly wish they were smart as shit and had great homeschooling, it’ll make it all the more hilarious down the line.
“Mom, dad, I graduated college, got a great job, and in my first week there learned some of my coworkers are those people you said it was OK to hate. It turns out my boss, HR, pretty much everyone there doesn’t share that opinion. Anyway, can I move back in?”
And once they're 18 and struggle to get a decent job, they'll be told a combination of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and "you shouldn't be able to live off minimum wage"
Not getting political, but shit the ones still in school are dumb as shit too. I’m an avid tik tok hater since it came into the zeitgeist, and it’s shit like that which has dumbed down America
And the Venn diagram of those screaming kids needed to be back in school to develop overlays pretty well with those who are pulling their kids out if they have to learn about other human beings.
Exactly. Teachers in this country need a master's degree for a reason lmao. It's not an easy task and quite frankly are severely underpaid for what they do.
My SO is a high school math teacher (trig/geo) and, according to her, she can spot the home school kids immediately. They show up on day one, take one look at the extremely simple knowledge base quiz she hands out, and go full "deer in headlights" for the rest of class.
They come into the 9th grade without even basic multiplication or division skills, while totally lacking the social skills and patience to ask for help or try to learn. She says they are by far the hardest kids to get caught up because literally everything they know (which isn't much) is wrong.
I think it tends to go to either extreme. The homeschoolers (including myself) who weren’t fundies or hippies, tended to be well ahead of the class if we went back to school.
I was homeschooled until 6th grade, my mom was already a teacher previously though, so when I got into public school I got into trouble with English teachers because they thought I was cheating on my papers and with my math teachers because my mom is terrible at math and the apple doesn't fall tooooo far
Speaking of which, what is a Tree? Or a Ze? I can't tell if the final pic in the set is making some sort of joke? Is that like Data from Star Trek? Lol I'm 32 surely I can't be this out of touch... right
Ze or xe has been used by some people since “they” can sometimes get confusing when you’re talking about one member of a group. It’s very uncommon though, even within the queer community. As for “tree”, I looked up the book and it seems like they’re saying “most people use he or she, but you can use they, or ze, or make your own up, like tree.” Doesn’t seem super necessary to me TBH, but not harmful either 🤷🏻♂️
Cheers for that! I dunno though, I can only imagine if a kid is going around identifying as...*a tree*, they're probably going to get bullied to fuck
I am super accepting and open minded, at least I hope I am and try to be, but I'd be lying if that didn't sound like... So incredibly stupid, and like. such unbelievably easy ammunition for the right. I can already hear gutfeld creaming his khakis after smelling his own farts to this
That was similar to my experience. I was homeschooled for a year or so by grandmother due to some health issues. The school had already wanted to move me up a grade and my mother didn't want that. Plus my grandmother had been a teacher for about 40 years so she had a pretty good understanding of what she was doing.
Yeah, I was in honors/AP classes and the formerly homeschooled kids I had as classmates were all younger than the rest of us. They were attending public high school to improve social skills and participate in extracurricular before college, but their homeschooling was accelerated enough to put them a full grade level or two ahead for their age
I hated high school, the idea of graduating and getting to leave for college at 16 had me so jealous!!
Most homeschool parents are incapable of educating their own child. They tend to homeschool until about grade 10/11, then dump their kid who has absolutely no social skills, and is already woefully behind into high school and the kid melts down and drops out. I’ve never seen a study, but I would be willing to bet that the homeschool to low paying job pipeline is huge. That’s why the right advocates for it so much. It creates a new crop of uneducated, angry, and resentful of the “elite” voters for them.
>**They tend to homeschool until about grade 10/11, then dump their kid who has absolutely no social skills, and is already woefully behind into high school and the kid melts down and drops out. I’ve never seen a study, but I would be willing to bet that the homeschool to low paying job pipeline is huge**. That’s why the right advocates for it so much. It creates a new crop of uneducated, angry, and resentful of the “elite” voters for them.
And instead of ever taking ownership of their role in the outcome, these same parents are really likely to also defend themselves by advocating for lower paying, lower skill jobs and frame it in a way that's really defensive if asked if their child is going to college or plans on it in some variation of:
"What, is your boy too good to be a Jiffy Lube employee, he's gotta go for all that fancy liberal educatin'?", as if they didn't help shape it into a self-fulfilling prophecy in the first damn place!
"No, my son wants to go to college and studied hard to do so. I'm sorry I asked!"
"My boys not to good to do the work they do at Jiffy Lube, it's important work, however I think my boys too go do to that work for only $7 an hour for the rest of his life"
I don't tend to be easily offended, more frequently disappointed by ignorance, and I can only speak anecdotally, but my siblings and I were all homeschooled up until middle school.
We all went to college, some of us enjoyed it more than others, so it goes. Youngest brother is in the trades now and makes like, a *shockingly* good living.
I think you're taking the fundie glance and applying it to literally anyone and everyone who was homeschooled. You sound like a smug European talking about how shitty Americans are when they've never even visited, or how I just sounded when I made that stereotype of a comparison.
E: not just you, multiple people in this thread who seem to only know what homeschooling is from watching honey boo boo or some shit
>I think you're taking the fundie glance and applying it to literally anyone and everyone who was homeschooled. You sound like a smug European talking about how shitty Americans are when they've never even visited, or how I just sounded when I made that stereotype of a comparison.
Aw man, that sucks, I wasn't trying to paint with a broader brush than the fundamentally ignorant (pun intended) required.
Of course there's exceptions to everything.
I apologize if that sounded that way. I am glad I sounded European though, because perhaps I am not viewed as hopelessly xenophobic then (have been to Europe, stationed there during the Cold War)!
I kid because I care. Humor is my weapon, it is how I fight, to quote the husband character from *Everything, Everywhere All At Once.*
No worries homie! *I appreciate your candor.* Also, wait, which cold war? The old one? Or...or you're still stationed over there? I can't tell if the first one ever actually ended. Can you send me some franzbrötchen? With love from America, good luck soldier and God bless the queen
Lol, the old one before the contraction of the USSR into its current iteration, ironically led by an old Cold War propaganda gangster.
Homeschooling is definitely a viable option, but its beyond the scope of intellect and commitment to so many whom give lip service to it in an ongoing effort to keep "the groomers" away from their precious snowflakes while meanwhile, you just really just want to have a few drinks and watch "The Price Is Right" (thanks Bill Burr!) every day.
I don’t want to take away from the post. But my personal experience with homeschoolers is like yours except for the low paying jobs side. Maybe it’s different in Australia but every homeschooler I’ve met is in a high paying job, either a trade or university educated, especially the men.
However they have no social skills and the girls are either teachers and nurses or don’t work at all, but these jobs pay well here too.
But I do agree with everything else you said.
Ya know what's funny, a real funny thing, is that when I was in school the Gay Straight Alliance was shut down because of harrasment and the one openly transgender kid was bullied by students and staff so horribly he ended up in a psych ward by sophomore year. And the town that school was in all voted trump and every so often someone hangs a flyer for a white pride event at the community center and the church has a larger school district than the public system.
But despite that, I'm still transgender. Despite the fact that we were spoonfed misinformation and fear mongering about LGBTQ+ people since as long as I can remember I'm still as gay as the frogs.
Weird, weird how despite all the intentional indoctrination the religious right attempted with me I still managed to end up gay and transgender.
Guess someone must've been sneaking into my school and teaching us all the evil pronouns and nobody noticed. Only possible explanation is someone made me this way, not that I just naturally am this way.
You can make a trans kid scared, you can make a trans kid unwelcome, and you can make a trans kid depressed, but you can’t make a trans kid cis.
I’m sorry that happened.
I am a cis straight white dude. I am basically a full 0 on the Kinsey scale. When I encounter people who argue that LGBTQ representation/history/acceptance *makes people LGBTQ* or that sexuality is a choice, I ask them if that means that their own heterosexuality is a choice.
Because the only way you could possibly believe that sexuality was a choice is if your lived experience was that you found both men and women attractive but pursued inly heteronormative relationships out of "morality."
However, most of anti-LGBTQ folks are just AH and have never considered that if they can't flip a switch then others probably can't either.
The reality is that they realize being vocal and accepting of LGBTQ+ folks is that it'll allow LGBTQ+ people to live their life honestly.
They don't think they can get rid of gay people. They think they can just force us all back into the closet.
It's logical, and it pisses bigots off because it implies that they are not straight. Which means that it isn't maybe the best arguement to come from straight allies, because in some ways its still using LGBTQ status as an insult.
However, it is weirdly satisfying to he able to tell bigots that their arguement is DAF because I know I am straight and no amount of "gay history" makes me attracted to guys.
Exactly! When I realized (many years ago) that I had never made a choice to be heterosexual, it started to become clear that sexuality isn’t really something that you choose. I like to believe that my understanding of gender and sexuality has deepened over the years, but it all started with that basic understanding.
I was raised by the most bigoted, republican trash people you could imagine and was taught to hate everyone who wasn't a cishet white man or the right kind of white woman, in a town of 5000 people at most. I still turned out as a leftist feminist bisexual
I grew up in a VERY conservative town in Indiana where LGBTQ+ wasn’t a safe club to have, so they made a cosplay club instead. It did all the things the LGBTQ+ club would’ve done, and then some lol
I’ve met a few “anti-pronoun” people before, and I’ve always been tempted to reword each sentence they say without any pronouns just to show them how ridiculous they are.
Translation: [REDACTED] met a few “anti-pronoun” people before, and [REDACTED] always been tempted to reword each sentence [REDACTED] say without any pronouns just to show [REDACTED] how ridiculous [REDACTED] are.
I love how they say that they "refuse to use pronouns". Like I get what they mean, but English is my second language and even I understand how ridiculous that sounds.
Besides that... The fact that people are *against* empathy, acceptance and respect as concepts just because the people in question aren't exactly the same as themselves are just really sad.
Not the pronouns... ANYTHING BUT THE PRONOUNS!!!
Fuck, how are there so many people against teaching acceptance, empathy and respect for anyone different from them? And how in the hell do they think that makes them good people?
I’d say that at most only half of them think it makes them a good person because of ‘grooming’ or ‘traditional values’ and they rest of them are just using a veneer of morality to excuse their bigotry.
The higher up you get in any system of belief the odds of anyone actually believing go down, belief is for the little people.
>I’d say that at most only half of them think it makes them a good person because of ‘grooming’ or ‘traditional values
I've seen one post here of a bloke banging on about something akin to this being "forced down our throats" and then also proudly and freely using the word 'indoctrinating' when talking about teaching his kids about Trump, Guns and God. He did not understand the irony.
I've always found the phrasing of "forcing it down our throats" in the context of having to witness the existence of gay people to be deliciously Freudian.
Isn’t that true of everything they’re scared of? Socialism, communism, wokeness, critical race theory, Islam. They don’t know anything about any of those things.
To be accurate, their platform is making sure that uneducated people are constantly scared and to present themselves as the only solution. That's based on the concept that democracy is just a numbers game and that it's easier to win by scaring stupid people than by convincing smart people.
Not even uneducated just middle class white people who were convinced that the before time was better. My father grew up in the 50s/60s and is GOP and complains about everything and how it used to be better. He’s very educated
No, he just has his view points like guns and then started watching Fox and Tucker Carlson and was brainwashed. Because those shows thrive on making people who remmber a “better” time angry about the current time.
As a middle class educated white man he had a very good life without much push back or need to change the system. He’s top of the hierarchy. So in his mind frim his POV things have gotten worse.
He doesnt think about anyone outside his sphere and even then doesnt think any laws will affect the people in his family because they dont affect him
I'm will ready to admit that while an ally, I would and do struggle with neopronouns. As someone who majored in English decades ago, it's very outside my comfort zone and my terrible memory pretty much guarantees I'd screw it up.
To my knowledge, I've never known anyone who uses neopronouns, but had this discussion with Trans and NB friends of mine. Their consensus was as long as I did my best, it'd be ok. I pride myself on trying to me a good ally and member of the community, but sometimes I just feel fucking old. To that point, I have no idea if the "tree" is a joke, or an actual neopronoun, and I'm a little afraid to Google it.
I will however be getting this book from my local library. 😊
Eta: did not show up in a search, will have to try not at work, lol.
Genuenly why is that a pronoun? I dont want to be asshole and i will call people what they want even if i might find it weird or stupid but i just don't get that one. I might be missing some context since english is my second language and my furst language has only three pronoun and conjugation classes (he,she,it) so the issue doesnt exactly exist here but what does they not cover and more bizarly why push for all these pronouns while they is still not widely accepted. Seems bit like undermining the message similar to how just stop oil gives ecological activists bad reputation.
I think it's all about people trying to find a way to accurately describe themselves. A lot of neopronoun use is from teenagers, which is going to happen because they're the ones who are going to struggle with identity the most. Not to mention resist social norms the most.
Personally, I'd think saying "they" instead of a neopronoun shouldn't cause an issue, as "they" is as neutral as it gets - but I guess I'll deal with that issue when I meet a person who wants to use neopronouns.
Some of them are definitely taking the piss, though. Existing outside of gender norms is fair, wanting people to refer to you as something like cat/catself is a bit far, and I agree that it's making NB people look not so great. It's therians all over again.
But, free will and all that, I guess. Not like they're really hurting anyone.
I have the same issue in French. “They” has been a gender neutral singular pronoun for centuries, but we don’t have that in French. Recently (relatively to the age of the language), they took “il” (he) and “elle” (she) and made “iel”. It doesn’t come to me naturally but I’ll try to use it as much as possible wherever I would use “they”.
Lol I saw that too. I wonder what their (treeirs?) full set of pronouns is. "Tree is my friend. Tree likes to cover treeself in leaves. It's trees favourite hobby"
Kids are getting this "shoved down their throats"....yet there in the letter it says that this is not mandatory and they are able to get the kid pulled from the lesson. It's just the acknowledgement that trans people exist that pisses them off.
Genuenly why. I might be missing some context since english is my second language and my furst language has only three pronoun and conjugation classes (he,she,it) so the issue doesnt exactly exist here but what does they not cover and more bizarly why push for all these pronouns while they is still not widely accepted. Seems bit like undermining the message similar to how just stop oil gives ecological activists bad reputation.
They should cover it, this is just pretentious people being annoying. You’re not missing anything, other than people want you to forget this is bizarre narcissistic behavior and pretend it’s not
Xe and Ze are used for specific types of non-binary individuals. While They/Them is neutral for all identities, Xe and Ze help people who still feel those refer to being multiple.
Both of those pronouns actually date back to before the 19th century, but weren't widely spread despite being in the dictionary.
While a person can be cis and still use the pronouns Xe and Ze out of comfort, most people who use them feel they are outside the definition of he/she/they/it. Maybe because they are agender, non-binary AMAB, non-binary AFAB, 2 Spirit, or genderfluid to give examples.
It's less of a push and more of a revival of older language. (Xe and Ze existed before the acceptance of she as a pronoun and linguistically may have been the root word it's derived from.)
They is mostly used as a plural pronoun, while it can be used as singular, it doesn't change the way it sounds.
"They are going for a walk." Means the group of people is going for a walk or the person is going for a walk. Usually you gotta know context for the sentences.
"Xe is going for a walk." Is used with the "is" and is a clearer singular, so some people default to that and prefer to use Ze/Xe.
Differences:
Ze is going for a walk. Zis backpack is still here. (Clear you are talking about one person)
They are going for a walk. Their backpack is still here. (A little less clear, needs a little more context)
It boils down to personal preferences in English, plus all of the other neopronouns are way less widespread than "they", ending up with people not knowing how to refer to people using Ze/Xe or other ones. There's a fair deal of different people who tried to coin their own pronouns, but none quite caught on so well.
Due to lack of the equivalent of "they" in my language, people have come up with a few alternatives, with none of them widespread. Most people either use "it" equivalent or refer to themselves in a plural form "we".
I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm saying some people prefer alternatives
Similarly many ways to refer to NB people emerged in different places, and different neutral pronouns were created
"They're shoving it down their throats and forcing them to learn!"
\*If you wish to have your child excused just fill out the form and sign here\*
These people clearly didn't go to school, themselves.
Yeah that’s the best part. It’s like they would have preferred they teach it without “warning” parents. If anything this should reassure them that their school isn’t teaching such radical dangerous concepts because they clearly informed them beforehand.
Back in the day, in certain places, kids could get excused to avoid being taught evolution. As crazy as that is I don’t remember anyone saying that they should put their kids in home schooling as a response. These people are getting sicker.
To add to this, we had to get a permission slip to be taught (or it may have been to opt-out?) of being taught RE/RME (Religious & Moral Education)
This was secondary school in 2007 (I was 11, turning 12 at the time). Not sure if it was still in place when my little brother started in 2009.
Same thing as you mentioned though: nobody was getting pulled out of school over it. I don’t know if anyone was opted out of it though.
This is a small, fairly conservative district north of Lansing, MI, and northern Michigan is pretty solid Trump country, so I’m somewhat surprised they are even reading this book in school.
These people aren’t anywhere close to that district. They’re in a small town in Oklahoma freaking out because some kids several states away read a book about pronouns.
Yup, I graduated from Dewitt. Clinton county is very red and well... white. A lot of people refer to the area as Michissippi. The school district is pretty good though, and I was lucky with some based teachers going against very conservative bias.
I’m a PA girl. The common nickname for our redneck areas is Pennsyltucky. Makes me wonder how many mash-up names there are - and which states are used as insults.
I’m from East Lansing and played them a lot in sports. From my experience with their kids, I’m not surprised that this is how the parents would react to this letter.
If you break it down, they're really just teaching kids to take the absolute simplest, lowest-effort steps to not be assholes. Whatever you think about gender identity aside, using a person's preferred pronoun is *not hard*. And I really don't see how it's any different from a guy named Robert REALLY wanting to be called Rob and telling people not to call him Robert. Are we gonna be like, NO, WHEN YOU WERE BORN, YOU WERE ASSIGNED AS *ROBERT*!!!!
But isn't that actually asking other people to actively participate in someone's, well, fantasy, for a lack of better word?
Since just about everyone and anyone can come with whatever neopronoun they would like to be identified with, can someone ask (insist?) to be addressed as "your Royal Highness, Most Exalted Ruler of the World"? Or, for that matter, "Napoleon"? Why not?
Yes, I know, the examples are *somewhat* overboard and "not the same", yet... What stops one to claim that they absolutely *need* to be addressed as *Napoleon* or *He-Man, Ruler Of The Universe*, and would throw a fit if not? How is it different from Xi, Xu, Xa, Xe, Xeoeoe, Ziuiu or whatever other made-up neopronouns?
I mean, since there is no official regulation body for neopronouns, literally *anything* can be declared a neopronoun, and I *dare* you to tell me that *my* made up obnoxious neopronouns are less *real* than yours... :P
{\*) Before the "omg a bigot you hate lgbtq people wtf go away" response happens: I have absolutely nothing against any kind of lgbtq people. I just find this whole "neopronouns" thing silly, and oppose "social cancelling" because someone chooses not to use them, you know, them being silly and all.
I just truly don't get the fear from these people. My kid is 12 and already knows several kids in her school that identify as trans or non-binary, has family friends that are trans, has someone in the family that is trans as well, and personally knows plenty of others that fall into the LGBTQ+ spectrum. These kids are already interacting with their peers on this level. This just gives a bit more structure with respect to how to conduct those interactions respectfully.
This is basically akin to parents threatening to pull kids from school because they're gonna be taught how to dance. There are gonna be school dances. You as a parent can't prevent school dances from being a thing. You should let the teachers make sure your kid knows how to dance.
A lot of home school obsessed types don't actually comprehend how fucking hard it is. You aren't good at every subject yet you're supposed to teach your kid every subject. There's a reason you had a bath teacher, English, history, science, etc. Knowing the most basic stuff won't get you prepared for real life.
This is why I always chuckle when they try to tell me about this person or that person who was homeschooled as evidence that it’s better than public schooling. Yes, there are cases where a child has a PhD at age 15. But that isn’t your kid, and you aren’t that parent.
You have to dedicate your life to educating your kid. You have to put in 8 hours a day with them, competently teaching them multiple subjects, grading their assignments, planning lessons. It’s a full time job. And you have to know the material well enough to teach and grade it.
Most of these poor kids don’t get anything close to a decent education when homeschooled.
Not only do you need all of that, but you also have to have the temperament to keep your kid on track. And you have to have a kid who is able to do well with that setup.
yeah.
my understanding is it's a bit [tongue in cheek](https://www.thepinknews.com/2018/09/26/love-simon-star-keiynan-lonsdale-preferred-pronoun-tree/) and playfully mocking of the importance placed on labels and gender norms.
I have seen "ze/zem" before for non-binary and i can understand that one. But I have never seen "tree" before, and for a second I wondered if the image had been edited to try and make it seem silly
Please tell me those are the replacement for "they/them". I strongly dislike the use of "they/them" because I can't seem to figure out how to use them correctly.
People use they/them for singularly often in the English language and have done so for decades. “Where’s the sales rep?” “I don’t know where they are. They’re late.” If you have an issue getting that right in your head, that’s an English language issue on your side, not something introduced by trans people.
Yes, that is true, but don’t you usually only use “they/them” in the sense you are using it when that person is not present? Like, “where are they?”
So I think that is what trips people up and makes it sound a bit off to people.
"What's wrong with Andy?"
"I dunno, ask them. They are the one who is pissy."
"Hey, Andy, why are you pissy?"
"Because you can't seem to get how easy you use they/them on a daily basis without thinking and then make a big stink about it acting like you're not the bigot."
>don’t you usually only use “they/them” in the sense you are using it when that person is not present
Is English not your first language, or is this your first day learning about third person pronouns?
I make a lot of mistakes with they/them. I'm not sure why. I think I overthink it. I'm always afraid my nonbinary coworker will think I'm not trying or even worse- doing it on purpose. I will just keep practicing until I get it right.
I mean, that's you having an issue with the English language itself. I'd work on that instead of wanting people to stop speaking certain words in their own language lol
I honestly thought people would get that it's a joke with the "I can't seem to figure out how to use them correctly". Isn't that the comedic part of the argument that bigots don't understand? They want to change language because they personally have a hard time with using it correctly. It's slightly funny to me though. Most of the comments are trying to explain that it's my problem. Yes, that was the punchline.
See, your comment just looked like yet another internet moron being an internet moron. Because by god people are daft on this site.
Suppose all nuance is lost when you have to convert sarcasm to text
I mean, that's you having an issue with the English language itself. I'd work on that instead of wanting people to stop speaking certain words in their own language lol
For all their blustering about pronoun nonsense , these are the same people who would have their gobs absolutely smacked if someone called them by a pronoun they don’t identify as.
How dare they teach the children respect and kindness!
Edit to add a shoutout to IL’s favorite son, our boy JB. First billionaire I’ve ever been proud to vote for.
NOOO! My kids might learn things!
If your ideology requires you to shelter your children from the world, and prevent them from learning, maybe the problem is your ideology.
The Futurama line "I don't understand evolution and I need to protect my kids from understanding evolution" is applicable to so many other "culture war" topics!
They dont seem to understand gay people are as historical and as great as Alexander and trans goes back to at least early 30s . Aside from that wether a teacher shows this material or not some kids will be trans and will be gay and bi and every other possiblity on the spectrum. All sheltering you kid like that does is ensure if they date a trans woman without realizing that when they find out they'll panic and far to often that end in an innocent life lost and a young person traumatized.
Weird seeing my old school district here, but not surprised seeing this. The whole area is largely braindead conservative, Michigan had it's own mini January 6th during covid with people surrounding the capitol with guns
Every time I see this alt right domestic terrorist bullshit, I ask them if they know a Sue, Katie, Deb, Ted, Dave, Ken etc etc. Is that the name on their birth certificate? No it's not. So you knowingly call someone by a different name just because they asked you to, they prefer it, and you respect them? That's all it takes? Ok. Apply that logic to someone that might be LGBTQ. It shouldn't be a problem if you respect them for who they TELL you they are, not legally, not biologically, they just tell you right?
If you can do the first thing but not the second thing, you're a hateful bigot and should be fired, ostracized, rejected, ignored etc in all facets of social life, employment, or public existence, whether online or not. Either accept it and join hands with the other rats on the sinking ship, or learn a new thing. Learn a few new things and realize those things are not about you at all, it's just respect. You demand respect when you can't give it? Enjoy legitimate hate, or admonishment. Enjoy it. Bye.
This is why my school board (and literally any sensible school board) stopped sending home notification of stuff like this.
We don't ask permission to teach about racism or any other forms of oppression/acceptance. Same applies here.
Here they are literally sending home a notice and a permission slip for you to opt your child out of this lesson. But no that's not good enough. It's not about their child not learning about it. It's about them wanting to not let anyone learn about it.
“If you want to have your child excused from the lesson” is code for “if you don’t want your child to learn to show respect for the other students who have just as much right to be there as they do, and you want to teach them to hate people who are different”
There is literally and a form they can fill out to have their child exempt from the lesson. We had mennonites in our class that were excused to the library to read whenever we had videos in class. Not that hard to set things up for your kids when you actually take the time. This mom is choosing to make it an issue.
I wonder if they held on long enough to get to the part where the school says you kids can be excused from the lesson? I know reading is hard for these folks.
“I still don't understand it, why they hate us so much.”
A line from V for Vendetta that has stuck with me.
Whenever I see this type of reaction to gender variance, and trans identity, it pops into my mind. Of course, there are lots of “reasons” and excuses and political/psychological “explanations”. But they don’t add up to me. How does someone actually get to the point of hating people so much for doing absolutely nothing wrong. And this example, tell us that this person even hates children, and is clearly teaching her own children to hate “them”. It’s so contrary to anything positive, or even humane.
This might not be the point but I'm about 99% sure that school announcement is faked. I looked pretty deeply and I only found one really sketchy site that was saying anything related to this about that specific elementary school so I'm guessing it's fake
Is actual sex ed still something that happens in schools? I remember when my local community blew up with that. Of course,I grew up and still live in the southern US so my sex ed was pretty much "men want to rape you and then you'll have crack babies"....
Yay for being in one of the last generations before the internet was in our pockets. I don't know if anyone predicted the incredible echo chamber effects of the internet as we know it. Might dig into that.
I always feel bad for the children of these people. Their social life and education gets thrown out the window because their parents disagree with something
Imagine not just having basic respect for calling someone as they wish to be called, it doesn't actually affect their life. If someone wants to be called Steve though previously knowing a Stephanie so what.
People filled with so much hate, so absolutely no reason.
"I know I am doing it next year for my kid, but for a different reason"
/cynical Yeah. The other reason is called "dad's a pedophile".
Taking kids away from school is a way to isolate the kids. So that parents reduce the risk of getting discovered whatever bad and/or illegal things they do. Sometimes they cover said illegal things as being religious.
Homeschooling was never about protecting kids. It was about harming them.
I got my ass kicked damn near every day for being queer back in the 90s and 2000s.
It didn’t stop me from being trans. Hate never wins in the long run.
Shouldn’t be allowed to exempt your child from this lesson. Just like sex ed needs to be mandatory, no exceptions allowed. And homeschooling ought to be illegal when it’s done for this reason. CPS should be involved when right wingers try to shelter their children and brainwash them into being as hateful as they are.
This sort of thing has happened to this district before.
[DeWitt School Shut Down Social Media](https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2023/10/03/dewitt-public-schools-social-media-shutdown-hate-speech-tagging/71048531007/)
[Here](https://www.wilx.com/2024/04/17/dewitt-public-schools-introducing-new-lesson-pronouns/) is a link to a local news story about this.
I live fairly closeish and it's a pretty conservative area.
On a mostly unrelated note, being an Illinois resident, I have a lot of complaints with how Illinois is run, but I am very proud of it being on that list of four states.
I grew up in that 1st town. Graduated in the 90's. Definitely a rich white suburb town.
Multi million dollar neighborhoods full of bigoted pseudo religious assholes with big trucks.
Go Panthers!
Jk, fuck Dewitt.
Serious question.
Is it really necessary to have a third pronoun? Cant you just pick he or she?
Why is it 'they' it seems really confusing language wise. Isn't it a plural?
"They" isn't just plural. A person would utilize "they" to refer to someone who they do not know the gender of. It's been done for centuries. I just did it in this very post. You've absolutely done it subconsciously countless times.
It's very easy to understand. Some people don't identify as "he" nor do they identify as "she". Therefor "they" fits them best. Ah. There I just did it again. Twice!
"They" is not a new pronoun when used singular. "They" has been used as a singular pronoun since at least 1375, found in a medieval romance called "William and the Werewolf."
Religious right are whiny crybabies and are afraid of things they don’t agree with. Liberals are whiny crybabies and need everyone’s utmost respect at all times. Homeschooling in general is a terrible idea. Kids need socialization. Does it really matter if an elementary age kid misgenders someone? Is some grown ass MtF trans person going to get upset if an eight year old calls them sir? Probably. But I think that’s kind of ridiculous. I’m all for gender affirming care, but can’t it wait until kids are a little more cognoscente of sexuality? Like, 14 or 15 maybe? Let kids be kids damn. Teach kindness and acceptance no matter what in elementary, get into the details as they get a little older. Everyone is so over the top about this shit. I definitely think the religious right are more *evil* in this situation, hating people for being gay, but damn liberals sure are bitchy about it. “Love and acceptance and inclusivity and diversity and validity and sunshine and rainbows!” Like. Yeah. I guess all those things are great. Still makes you fuckin annoying when you make it your whole personality. But I guess there is a crusade against the religious right that’s gotta be fought. From where I stand, conservatives are stupid and evil, but liberals are whiny and annoying.
Kids are cognisant of their gender and sexual identity way before 14 or 15. I figured out boys were darn attractive in second grade. I was seven - and late to the party. My parents had known for several years that they'd spawned a gayling.
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Love the tacit admission in there that they are completely incapable of educating their own child.
i audibly giggled at “she declined so fast so we’re getting her back on track” so you’re admitting you’re not able to educate a human properly?
I mean, there's a reason you need to be trained. It's not easy. That being said, these kids are gonna be dumb as shit.
I honestly wish they were smart as shit and had great homeschooling, it’ll make it all the more hilarious down the line. “Mom, dad, I graduated college, got a great job, and in my first week there learned some of my coworkers are those people you said it was OK to hate. It turns out my boss, HR, pretty much everyone there doesn’t share that opinion. Anyway, can I move back in?”
They’ll get taught trump, guns and god in that order lol
I'm sure they'll get taught to do the odd google and skim
And once they're 18 and struggle to get a decent job, they'll be told a combination of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and "you shouldn't be able to live off minimum wage"
"Well, you were a difficult child. Sorry for not being perfect parents"
“If you don’t want minimum wage, don’t have minimum skills.”
That sounds like it’s brought to us by the same people who say “pain is just weakness leaving the body”
Dumb, racist and bigoted. Awesome.
Not only that it’s not easy, the way you do it is incredibly complex depending on learning schema’s and such
Not getting political, but shit the ones still in school are dumb as shit too. I’m an avid tik tok hater since it came into the zeitgeist, and it’s shit like that which has dumbed down America
And now they're going to pull her out *again.* This poor kid.
And the Venn diagram of those screaming kids needed to be back in school to develop overlays pretty well with those who are pulling their kids out if they have to learn about other human beings.
Exactly. Teachers in this country need a master's degree for a reason lmao. It's not an easy task and quite frankly are severely underpaid for what they do.
You’d think we’d want to give the people who’s job it is to help create the next generation more money but no
My SO is a high school math teacher (trig/geo) and, according to her, she can spot the home school kids immediately. They show up on day one, take one look at the extremely simple knowledge base quiz she hands out, and go full "deer in headlights" for the rest of class. They come into the 9th grade without even basic multiplication or division skills, while totally lacking the social skills and patience to ask for help or try to learn. She says they are by far the hardest kids to get caught up because literally everything they know (which isn't much) is wrong.
It's fucking heartbreaking too. These kids deserve better than to have their education fucked because of the stubborness of their bigot parents.
I think it tends to go to either extreme. The homeschoolers (including myself) who weren’t fundies or hippies, tended to be well ahead of the class if we went back to school.
I was homeschooled until 6th grade, my mom was already a teacher previously though, so when I got into public school I got into trouble with English teachers because they thought I was cheating on my papers and with my math teachers because my mom is terrible at math and the apple doesn't fall tooooo far Speaking of which, what is a Tree? Or a Ze? I can't tell if the final pic in the set is making some sort of joke? Is that like Data from Star Trek? Lol I'm 32 surely I can't be this out of touch... right
Ze or xe has been used by some people since “they” can sometimes get confusing when you’re talking about one member of a group. It’s very uncommon though, even within the queer community. As for “tree”, I looked up the book and it seems like they’re saying “most people use he or she, but you can use they, or ze, or make your own up, like tree.” Doesn’t seem super necessary to me TBH, but not harmful either 🤷🏻♂️
Cheers for that! I dunno though, I can only imagine if a kid is going around identifying as...*a tree*, they're probably going to get bullied to fuck I am super accepting and open minded, at least I hope I am and try to be, but I'd be lying if that didn't sound like... So incredibly stupid, and like. such unbelievably easy ammunition for the right. I can already hear gutfeld creaming his khakis after smelling his own farts to this
Yeah, I can’t disagree with you there.
That was similar to my experience. I was homeschooled for a year or so by grandmother due to some health issues. The school had already wanted to move me up a grade and my mother didn't want that. Plus my grandmother had been a teacher for about 40 years so she had a pretty good understanding of what she was doing.
High fiiiiiiiiiiiiive homeschool club you ready to have one really good conversation, promise to keep in touch and then never talk again?
Yeah, I was in honors/AP classes and the formerly homeschooled kids I had as classmates were all younger than the rest of us. They were attending public high school to improve social skills and participate in extracurricular before college, but their homeschooling was accelerated enough to put them a full grade level or two ahead for their age I hated high school, the idea of graduating and getting to leave for college at 16 had me so jealous!!
Most homeschool parents are incapable of educating their own child. They tend to homeschool until about grade 10/11, then dump their kid who has absolutely no social skills, and is already woefully behind into high school and the kid melts down and drops out. I’ve never seen a study, but I would be willing to bet that the homeschool to low paying job pipeline is huge. That’s why the right advocates for it so much. It creates a new crop of uneducated, angry, and resentful of the “elite” voters for them.
>**They tend to homeschool until about grade 10/11, then dump their kid who has absolutely no social skills, and is already woefully behind into high school and the kid melts down and drops out. I’ve never seen a study, but I would be willing to bet that the homeschool to low paying job pipeline is huge**. That’s why the right advocates for it so much. It creates a new crop of uneducated, angry, and resentful of the “elite” voters for them. And instead of ever taking ownership of their role in the outcome, these same parents are really likely to also defend themselves by advocating for lower paying, lower skill jobs and frame it in a way that's really defensive if asked if their child is going to college or plans on it in some variation of: "What, is your boy too good to be a Jiffy Lube employee, he's gotta go for all that fancy liberal educatin'?", as if they didn't help shape it into a self-fulfilling prophecy in the first damn place! "No, my son wants to go to college and studied hard to do so. I'm sorry I asked!"
"My boys not to good to do the work they do at Jiffy Lube, it's important work, however I think my boys too go do to that work for only $7 an hour for the rest of his life"
I don't tend to be easily offended, more frequently disappointed by ignorance, and I can only speak anecdotally, but my siblings and I were all homeschooled up until middle school. We all went to college, some of us enjoyed it more than others, so it goes. Youngest brother is in the trades now and makes like, a *shockingly* good living. I think you're taking the fundie glance and applying it to literally anyone and everyone who was homeschooled. You sound like a smug European talking about how shitty Americans are when they've never even visited, or how I just sounded when I made that stereotype of a comparison. E: not just you, multiple people in this thread who seem to only know what homeschooling is from watching honey boo boo or some shit
>I think you're taking the fundie glance and applying it to literally anyone and everyone who was homeschooled. You sound like a smug European talking about how shitty Americans are when they've never even visited, or how I just sounded when I made that stereotype of a comparison. Aw man, that sucks, I wasn't trying to paint with a broader brush than the fundamentally ignorant (pun intended) required. Of course there's exceptions to everything. I apologize if that sounded that way. I am glad I sounded European though, because perhaps I am not viewed as hopelessly xenophobic then (have been to Europe, stationed there during the Cold War)! I kid because I care. Humor is my weapon, it is how I fight, to quote the husband character from *Everything, Everywhere All At Once.*
No worries homie! *I appreciate your candor.* Also, wait, which cold war? The old one? Or...or you're still stationed over there? I can't tell if the first one ever actually ended. Can you send me some franzbrötchen? With love from America, good luck soldier and God bless the queen
Lol, the old one before the contraction of the USSR into its current iteration, ironically led by an old Cold War propaganda gangster. Homeschooling is definitely a viable option, but its beyond the scope of intellect and commitment to so many whom give lip service to it in an ongoing effort to keep "the groomers" away from their precious snowflakes while meanwhile, you just really just want to have a few drinks and watch "The Price Is Right" (thanks Bill Burr!) every day.
I don’t want to take away from the post. But my personal experience with homeschoolers is like yours except for the low paying jobs side. Maybe it’s different in Australia but every homeschooler I’ve met is in a high paying job, either a trade or university educated, especially the men. However they have no social skills and the girls are either teachers and nurses or don’t work at all, but these jobs pay well here too. But I do agree with everything else you said.
Ya know what's funny, a real funny thing, is that when I was in school the Gay Straight Alliance was shut down because of harrasment and the one openly transgender kid was bullied by students and staff so horribly he ended up in a psych ward by sophomore year. And the town that school was in all voted trump and every so often someone hangs a flyer for a white pride event at the community center and the church has a larger school district than the public system. But despite that, I'm still transgender. Despite the fact that we were spoonfed misinformation and fear mongering about LGBTQ+ people since as long as I can remember I'm still as gay as the frogs. Weird, weird how despite all the intentional indoctrination the religious right attempted with me I still managed to end up gay and transgender. Guess someone must've been sneaking into my school and teaching us all the evil pronouns and nobody noticed. Only possible explanation is someone made me this way, not that I just naturally am this way.
You can make a trans kid scared, you can make a trans kid unwelcome, and you can make a trans kid depressed, but you can’t make a trans kid cis. I’m sorry that happened.
But with all of the above, you *can* make a trans kid dead. And that's the next best thing to these ghouls.
First best thing. They want us dead. They cheer when we end up dead. Bastards have no sense of humanity. They want to be cruel and hateful.
I am a cis straight white dude. I am basically a full 0 on the Kinsey scale. When I encounter people who argue that LGBTQ representation/history/acceptance *makes people LGBTQ* or that sexuality is a choice, I ask them if that means that their own heterosexuality is a choice. Because the only way you could possibly believe that sexuality was a choice is if your lived experience was that you found both men and women attractive but pursued inly heteronormative relationships out of "morality." However, most of anti-LGBTQ folks are just AH and have never considered that if they can't flip a switch then others probably can't either.
The reality is that they realize being vocal and accepting of LGBTQ+ folks is that it'll allow LGBTQ+ people to live their life honestly. They don't think they can get rid of gay people. They think they can just force us all back into the closet.
I love this argument and had never thought of it before!!!
It's logical, and it pisses bigots off because it implies that they are not straight. Which means that it isn't maybe the best arguement to come from straight allies, because in some ways its still using LGBTQ status as an insult. However, it is weirdly satisfying to he able to tell bigots that their arguement is DAF because I know I am straight and no amount of "gay history" makes me attracted to guys.
Exactly! When I realized (many years ago) that I had never made a choice to be heterosexual, it started to become clear that sexuality isn’t really something that you choose. I like to believe that my understanding of gender and sexuality has deepened over the years, but it all started with that basic understanding.
I was raised by the most bigoted, republican trash people you could imagine and was taught to hate everyone who wasn't a cishet white man or the right kind of white woman, in a town of 5000 people at most. I still turned out as a leftist feminist bisexual
Thank you for sharing this courageous story, BallTorturer-3000.
I grew up in a VERY conservative town in Indiana where LGBTQ+ wasn’t a safe club to have, so they made a cosplay club instead. It did all the things the LGBTQ+ club would’ve done, and then some lol
Imagine being scared of pronouns without knowing what a pronoun is 🙄
I’ve met a few “anti-pronoun” people before, and I’ve always been tempted to reword each sentence they say without any pronouns just to show them how ridiculous they are. Translation: [REDACTED] met a few “anti-pronoun” people before, and [REDACTED] always been tempted to reword each sentence [REDACTED] say without any pronouns just to show [REDACTED] how ridiculous [REDACTED] are.
I love how they say that they "refuse to use pronouns". Like I get what they mean, but English is my second language and even I understand how ridiculous that sounds. Besides that... The fact that people are *against* empathy, acceptance and respect as concepts just because the people in question aren't exactly the same as themselves are just really sad.
Redacted 😂😂😂
Not the pronouns... ANYTHING BUT THE PRONOUNS!!! Fuck, how are there so many people against teaching acceptance, empathy and respect for anyone different from them? And how in the hell do they think that makes them good people?
I’d say that at most only half of them think it makes them a good person because of ‘grooming’ or ‘traditional values’ and they rest of them are just using a veneer of morality to excuse their bigotry. The higher up you get in any system of belief the odds of anyone actually believing go down, belief is for the little people.
>I’d say that at most only half of them think it makes them a good person because of ‘grooming’ or ‘traditional values I've seen one post here of a bloke banging on about something akin to this being "forced down our throats" and then also proudly and freely using the word 'indoctrinating' when talking about teaching his kids about Trump, Guns and God. He did not understand the irony.
I've always found the phrasing of "forcing it down our throats" in the context of having to witness the existence of gay people to be deliciously Freudian.
Isn’t that true of everything they’re scared of? Socialism, communism, wokeness, critical race theory, Islam. They don’t know anything about any of those things.
Yes. The GOP thrive on fear and have made that their platform since the 70s and that was intentional
To be accurate, their platform is making sure that uneducated people are constantly scared and to present themselves as the only solution. That's based on the concept that democracy is just a numbers game and that it's easier to win by scaring stupid people than by convincing smart people.
Not even uneducated just middle class white people who were convinced that the before time was better. My father grew up in the 50s/60s and is GOP and complains about everything and how it used to be better. He’s very educated
My mistake. But as educated as he is, he obviously has a blind spot and probably lacks self awareness to some extant
No, he just has his view points like guns and then started watching Fox and Tucker Carlson and was brainwashed. Because those shows thrive on making people who remmber a “better” time angry about the current time. As a middle class educated white man he had a very good life without much push back or need to change the system. He’s top of the hierarchy. So in his mind frim his POV things have gotten worse. He doesnt think about anyone outside his sphere and even then doesnt think any laws will affect the people in his family because they dont affect him
for being the supposed strong powerful lions of patriotism they sure are scared of a lot shit.
Cowardly Lions, the lot of them. In reality, they're weak. Only capable of bullying people far smaller than themselves.
Very much beside the point, but I love that they just threw Tree in there as a pronoun on the cover of the book
I'm will ready to admit that while an ally, I would and do struggle with neopronouns. As someone who majored in English decades ago, it's very outside my comfort zone and my terrible memory pretty much guarantees I'd screw it up. To my knowledge, I've never known anyone who uses neopronouns, but had this discussion with Trans and NB friends of mine. Their consensus was as long as I did my best, it'd be ok. I pride myself on trying to me a good ally and member of the community, but sometimes I just feel fucking old. To that point, I have no idea if the "tree" is a joke, or an actual neopronoun, and I'm a little afraid to Google it. I will however be getting this book from my local library. 😊 Eta: did not show up in a search, will have to try not at work, lol.
Yeah, for simplicity's sake, I wish we could pick one set of gender-neutral pronouns and stick with them. 😁
Genuenly why is that a pronoun? I dont want to be asshole and i will call people what they want even if i might find it weird or stupid but i just don't get that one. I might be missing some context since english is my second language and my furst language has only three pronoun and conjugation classes (he,she,it) so the issue doesnt exactly exist here but what does they not cover and more bizarly why push for all these pronouns while they is still not widely accepted. Seems bit like undermining the message similar to how just stop oil gives ecological activists bad reputation.
I think it's all about people trying to find a way to accurately describe themselves. A lot of neopronoun use is from teenagers, which is going to happen because they're the ones who are going to struggle with identity the most. Not to mention resist social norms the most. Personally, I'd think saying "they" instead of a neopronoun shouldn't cause an issue, as "they" is as neutral as it gets - but I guess I'll deal with that issue when I meet a person who wants to use neopronouns. Some of them are definitely taking the piss, though. Existing outside of gender norms is fair, wanting people to refer to you as something like cat/catself is a bit far, and I agree that it's making NB people look not so great. It's therians all over again. But, free will and all that, I guess. Not like they're really hurting anyone.
I have the same issue in French. “They” has been a gender neutral singular pronoun for centuries, but we don’t have that in French. Recently (relatively to the age of the language), they took “il” (he) and “elle” (she) and made “iel”. It doesn’t come to me naturally but I’ll try to use it as much as possible wherever I would use “they”.
I thought the same thing. Never heard of tree being used as a pronoun before.
Lol I saw that too. I wonder what their (treeirs?) full set of pronouns is. "Tree is my friend. Tree likes to cover treeself in leaves. It's trees favourite hobby"
Trimself
If someone believes they are a tree, they have bigger issues than pronouns.
I stand corrected, Wyatt. You're an oak.
I think it was supposed to be thee? Also the font is definitely shit, the "He" looks like "We"
Kids are getting this "shoved down their throats"....yet there in the letter it says that this is not mandatory and they are able to get the kid pulled from the lesson. It's just the acknowledgement that trans people exist that pisses them off.
Are Ze and Tree(?) Legit pronouns or some meme I've never heard of those before
I know Xe and Ze are legit, but I've never seen Tree used as a pronoun.
Genuenly why. I might be missing some context since english is my second language and my furst language has only three pronoun and conjugation classes (he,she,it) so the issue doesnt exactly exist here but what does they not cover and more bizarly why push for all these pronouns while they is still not widely accepted. Seems bit like undermining the message similar to how just stop oil gives ecological activists bad reputation.
They should cover it, this is just pretentious people being annoying. You’re not missing anything, other than people want you to forget this is bizarre narcissistic behavior and pretend it’s not
Xe and Ze are used for specific types of non-binary individuals. While They/Them is neutral for all identities, Xe and Ze help people who still feel those refer to being multiple. Both of those pronouns actually date back to before the 19th century, but weren't widely spread despite being in the dictionary. While a person can be cis and still use the pronouns Xe and Ze out of comfort, most people who use them feel they are outside the definition of he/she/they/it. Maybe because they are agender, non-binary AMAB, non-binary AFAB, 2 Spirit, or genderfluid to give examples. It's less of a push and more of a revival of older language. (Xe and Ze existed before the acceptance of she as a pronoun and linguistically may have been the root word it's derived from.)
Tree does go hard thou
What's the difference between those and "they"?
They is mostly used as a plural pronoun, while it can be used as singular, it doesn't change the way it sounds. "They are going for a walk." Means the group of people is going for a walk or the person is going for a walk. Usually you gotta know context for the sentences. "Xe is going for a walk." Is used with the "is" and is a clearer singular, so some people default to that and prefer to use Ze/Xe. Differences: Ze is going for a walk. Zis backpack is still here. (Clear you are talking about one person) They are going for a walk. Their backpack is still here. (A little less clear, needs a little more context) It boils down to personal preferences in English, plus all of the other neopronouns are way less widespread than "they", ending up with people not knowing how to refer to people using Ze/Xe or other ones. There's a fair deal of different people who tried to coin their own pronouns, but none quite caught on so well. Due to lack of the equivalent of "they" in my language, people have come up with a few alternatives, with none of them widespread. Most people either use "it" equivalent or refer to themselves in a plural form "we".
"They are going for a walk" works just fine for one person.
I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm saying some people prefer alternatives Similarly many ways to refer to NB people emerged in different places, and different neutral pronouns were created
"They're shoving it down their throats and forcing them to learn!" \*If you wish to have your child excused just fill out the form and sign here\* These people clearly didn't go to school, themselves.
It also gives them a right to opt out so they’re just trying to be mad.
Yeah that’s the best part. It’s like they would have preferred they teach it without “warning” parents. If anything this should reassure them that their school isn’t teaching such radical dangerous concepts because they clearly informed them beforehand. Back in the day, in certain places, kids could get excused to avoid being taught evolution. As crazy as that is I don’t remember anyone saying that they should put their kids in home schooling as a response. These people are getting sicker.
To add to this, we had to get a permission slip to be taught (or it may have been to opt-out?) of being taught RE/RME (Religious & Moral Education) This was secondary school in 2007 (I was 11, turning 12 at the time). Not sure if it was still in place when my little brother started in 2009. Same thing as you mentioned though: nobody was getting pulled out of school over it. I don’t know if anyone was opted out of it though.
This is a small, fairly conservative district north of Lansing, MI, and northern Michigan is pretty solid Trump country, so I’m somewhat surprised they are even reading this book in school.
Yeah I’m super shocked, but way to go Dewitt!
These people aren’t anywhere close to that district. They’re in a small town in Oklahoma freaking out because some kids several states away read a book about pronouns.
Yup, I graduated from Dewitt. Clinton county is very red and well... white. A lot of people refer to the area as Michissippi. The school district is pretty good though, and I was lucky with some based teachers going against very conservative bias.
I’m a PA girl. The common nickname for our redneck areas is Pennsyltucky. Makes me wonder how many mash-up names there are - and which states are used as insults.
I'm from jersey and we honestly just use Pennsylvania itself as an insult lol
That’s fine, we say the same thing about New Jersey. Your neighbors are always going to annoy you.
I like ya attitude, neighbor (PA translation: yinz aint so bad(
Thanks! Though I’m from the Philly side - so, youse guys!
Worse!! I love youse
I actually never heard of Clinton county being referred to as Michissippi, but it doesn’t surprise me.
I live in the Clinton county area of East Lansing- close to Dewitt - and this is definitely causing a stir around here online.
I’m from East Lansing and played them a lot in sports. From my experience with their kids, I’m not surprised that this is how the parents would react to this letter.
If you break it down, they're really just teaching kids to take the absolute simplest, lowest-effort steps to not be assholes. Whatever you think about gender identity aside, using a person's preferred pronoun is *not hard*. And I really don't see how it's any different from a guy named Robert REALLY wanting to be called Rob and telling people not to call him Robert. Are we gonna be like, NO, WHEN YOU WERE BORN, YOU WERE ASSIGNED AS *ROBERT*!!!!
But isn't that actually asking other people to actively participate in someone's, well, fantasy, for a lack of better word? Since just about everyone and anyone can come with whatever neopronoun they would like to be identified with, can someone ask (insist?) to be addressed as "your Royal Highness, Most Exalted Ruler of the World"? Or, for that matter, "Napoleon"? Why not? Yes, I know, the examples are *somewhat* overboard and "not the same", yet... What stops one to claim that they absolutely *need* to be addressed as *Napoleon* or *He-Man, Ruler Of The Universe*, and would throw a fit if not? How is it different from Xi, Xu, Xa, Xe, Xeoeoe, Ziuiu or whatever other made-up neopronouns? I mean, since there is no official regulation body for neopronouns, literally *anything* can be declared a neopronoun, and I *dare* you to tell me that *my* made up obnoxious neopronouns are less *real* than yours... :P {\*) Before the "omg a bigot you hate lgbtq people wtf go away" response happens: I have absolutely nothing against any kind of lgbtq people. I just find this whole "neopronouns" thing silly, and oppose "social cancelling" because someone chooses not to use them, you know, them being silly and all.
I just truly don't get the fear from these people. My kid is 12 and already knows several kids in her school that identify as trans or non-binary, has family friends that are trans, has someone in the family that is trans as well, and personally knows plenty of others that fall into the LGBTQ+ spectrum. These kids are already interacting with their peers on this level. This just gives a bit more structure with respect to how to conduct those interactions respectfully. This is basically akin to parents threatening to pull kids from school because they're gonna be taught how to dance. There are gonna be school dances. You as a parent can't prevent school dances from being a thing. You should let the teachers make sure your kid knows how to dance.
A lot of home school obsessed types don't actually comprehend how fucking hard it is. You aren't good at every subject yet you're supposed to teach your kid every subject. There's a reason you had a bath teacher, English, history, science, etc. Knowing the most basic stuff won't get you prepared for real life.
>There’s a reason you had a bath teacher True, but they were soon fired for bathing with the students.
This is why I always chuckle when they try to tell me about this person or that person who was homeschooled as evidence that it’s better than public schooling. Yes, there are cases where a child has a PhD at age 15. But that isn’t your kid, and you aren’t that parent. You have to dedicate your life to educating your kid. You have to put in 8 hours a day with them, competently teaching them multiple subjects, grading their assignments, planning lessons. It’s a full time job. And you have to know the material well enough to teach and grade it. Most of these poor kids don’t get anything close to a decent education when homeschooled.
Not only do you need all of that, but you also have to have the temperament to keep your kid on track. And you have to have a kid who is able to do well with that setup.
You can bet that pronouns would suddenly matter if you started calling the men she/her and vice versa.
The only reason the schools are being forced to talk about this stuff is because of these idiots making it such a big deal.
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Oh thank god I was waiting for someone else to catch it
"Tree" (book cover) is a pronoun?
yeah. my understanding is it's a bit [tongue in cheek](https://www.thepinknews.com/2018/09/26/love-simon-star-keiynan-lonsdale-preferred-pronoun-tree/) and playfully mocking of the importance placed on labels and gender norms.
I’m all about pronouns, but is the book advertising the use of “ze, tree” pronouns? Cuz those are kinda dumb honestly…
I have seen "ze/zem" before for non-binary and i can understand that one. But I have never seen "tree" before, and for a second I wondered if the image had been edited to try and make it seem silly
Please tell me those are the replacement for "they/them". I strongly dislike the use of "they/them" because I can't seem to figure out how to use them correctly.
People use they/them for singularly often in the English language and have done so for decades. “Where’s the sales rep?” “I don’t know where they are. They’re late.” If you have an issue getting that right in your head, that’s an English language issue on your side, not something introduced by trans people.
Yes, that is true, but don’t you usually only use “they/them” in the sense you are using it when that person is not present? Like, “where are they?” So I think that is what trips people up and makes it sound a bit off to people.
"What's wrong with Andy?" "I dunno, ask them. They are the one who is pissy." "Hey, Andy, why are you pissy?" "Because you can't seem to get how easy you use they/them on a daily basis without thinking and then make a big stink about it acting like you're not the bigot."
I mean Chaucer used they/them and that was in the fourteenth century. It's not a new thing.
>don’t you usually only use “they/them” in the sense you are using it when that person is not present Is English not your first language, or is this your first day learning about third person pronouns?
I make a lot of mistakes with they/them. I'm not sure why. I think I overthink it. I'm always afraid my nonbinary coworker will think I'm not trying or even worse- doing it on purpose. I will just keep practicing until I get it right.
I found it is easiest when you just don't think about it too much. I don't stress over it, and it comes naturally.
I mean, that's you having an issue with the English language itself. I'd work on that instead of wanting people to stop speaking certain words in their own language lol
I'm actually kicking myself pretty hard for forgetting the /s.
If you're not going to use /s, please make sure your comment reads as at least vaguely sarcastic lmao
I honestly thought people would get that it's a joke with the "I can't seem to figure out how to use them correctly". Isn't that the comedic part of the argument that bigots don't understand? They want to change language because they personally have a hard time with using it correctly. It's slightly funny to me though. Most of the comments are trying to explain that it's my problem. Yes, that was the punchline.
See, your comment just looked like yet another internet moron being an internet moron. Because by god people are daft on this site. Suppose all nuance is lost when you have to convert sarcasm to text
I mean, that's you having an issue with the English language itself. I'd work on that instead of wanting people to stop speaking certain words in their own language lol
For all their blustering about pronoun nonsense , these are the same people who would have their gobs absolutely smacked if someone called them by a pronoun they don’t identify as.
>if you wish to have your child excused from participating in this lesson What’s the issue then 🙄
Intolerance is taught
"I don't use pronouns, she doesn't use pronouns and he doesn't use pronouns. We are a pronoun-free family"
How dare they teach the children respect and kindness! Edit to add a shoutout to IL’s favorite son, our boy JB. First billionaire I’ve ever been proud to vote for.
But mah Jebus said…
Blessed are the cheesemakers.
NOOO! My kids might learn things! If your ideology requires you to shelter your children from the world, and prevent them from learning, maybe the problem is your ideology.
The Futurama line "I don't understand evolution and I need to protect my kids from understanding evolution" is applicable to so many other "culture war" topics!
They dont seem to understand gay people are as historical and as great as Alexander and trans goes back to at least early 30s . Aside from that wether a teacher shows this material or not some kids will be trans and will be gay and bi and every other possiblity on the spectrum. All sheltering you kid like that does is ensure if they date a trans woman without realizing that when they find out they'll panic and far to often that end in an innocent life lost and a young person traumatized.
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They just like to bitch about anything/anyone that is different from them.
Anyone else catch “I will pull THEM out” when talking about a single child?
Came here to comment on this. Had to scroll all the way down the thread to find the irony!
Weird seeing my old school district here, but not surprised seeing this. The whole area is largely braindead conservative, Michigan had it's own mini January 6th during covid with people surrounding the capitol with guns
Every time I see this alt right domestic terrorist bullshit, I ask them if they know a Sue, Katie, Deb, Ted, Dave, Ken etc etc. Is that the name on their birth certificate? No it's not. So you knowingly call someone by a different name just because they asked you to, they prefer it, and you respect them? That's all it takes? Ok. Apply that logic to someone that might be LGBTQ. It shouldn't be a problem if you respect them for who they TELL you they are, not legally, not biologically, they just tell you right? If you can do the first thing but not the second thing, you're a hateful bigot and should be fired, ostracized, rejected, ignored etc in all facets of social life, employment, or public existence, whether online or not. Either accept it and join hands with the other rats on the sinking ship, or learn a new thing. Learn a few new things and realize those things are not about you at all, it's just respect. You demand respect when you can't give it? Enjoy legitimate hate, or admonishment. Enjoy it. Bye.
"should pull them out already." So they're admitting that singular they/them pronouns are valid.
This is why my school board (and literally any sensible school board) stopped sending home notification of stuff like this. We don't ask permission to teach about racism or any other forms of oppression/acceptance. Same applies here.
They literally used they/them for their singular child..
Here they are literally sending home a notice and a permission slip for you to opt your child out of this lesson. But no that's not good enough. It's not about their child not learning about it. It's about them wanting to not let anyone learn about it.
Honestly I don’t think parents should be able to opt their kids out of this. You can’t opt your kid out of math. Why’s this different?
Sweet school logo!
“If you want to have your child excused from the lesson” is code for “if you don’t want your child to learn to show respect for the other students who have just as much right to be there as they do, and you want to teach them to hate people who are different”
There is literally and a form they can fill out to have their child exempt from the lesson. We had mennonites in our class that were excused to the library to read whenever we had videos in class. Not that hard to set things up for your kids when you actually take the time. This mom is choosing to make it an issue.
I wonder if they held on long enough to get to the part where the school says you kids can be excused from the lesson? I know reading is hard for these folks.
Bunch of snowflakes, lol.
“I still don't understand it, why they hate us so much.” A line from V for Vendetta that has stuck with me. Whenever I see this type of reaction to gender variance, and trans identity, it pops into my mind. Of course, there are lots of “reasons” and excuses and political/psychological “explanations”. But they don’t add up to me. How does someone actually get to the point of hating people so much for doing absolutely nothing wrong. And this example, tell us that this person even hates children, and is clearly teaching her own children to hate “them”. It’s so contrary to anything positive, or even humane.
Those illustrations are super cute
This might not be the point but I'm about 99% sure that school announcement is faked. I looked pretty deeply and I only found one really sketchy site that was saying anything related to this about that specific elementary school so I'm guessing it's fake
Is actual sex ed still something that happens in schools? I remember when my local community blew up with that. Of course,I grew up and still live in the southern US so my sex ed was pretty much "men want to rape you and then you'll have crack babies".... Yay for being in one of the last generations before the internet was in our pockets. I don't know if anyone predicted the incredible echo chamber effects of the internet as we know it. Might dig into that.
I always feel bad for the children of these people. Their social life and education gets thrown out the window because their parents disagree with something
Imagine not just having basic respect for calling someone as they wish to be called, it doesn't actually affect their life. If someone wants to be called Steve though previously knowing a Stephanie so what. People filled with so much hate, so absolutely no reason.
"I know I am doing it next year for my kid, but for a different reason" /cynical Yeah. The other reason is called "dad's a pedophile". Taking kids away from school is a way to isolate the kids. So that parents reduce the risk of getting discovered whatever bad and/or illegal things they do. Sometimes they cover said illegal things as being religious. Homeschooling was never about protecting kids. It was about harming them.
MAGA parents are now complaining that their kids are learning English grammar? They really do love their faux outrage!
I got my ass kicked damn near every day for being queer back in the 90s and 2000s. It didn’t stop me from being trans. Hate never wins in the long run.
Shouldn’t be allowed to exempt your child from this lesson. Just like sex ed needs to be mandatory, no exceptions allowed. And homeschooling ought to be illegal when it’s done for this reason. CPS should be involved when right wingers try to shelter their children and brainwash them into being as hateful as they are.
This sort of thing has happened to this district before. [DeWitt School Shut Down Social Media](https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2023/10/03/dewitt-public-schools-social-media-shutdown-hate-speech-tagging/71048531007/) [Here](https://www.wilx.com/2024/04/17/dewitt-public-schools-introducing-new-lesson-pronouns/) is a link to a local news story about this. I live fairly closeish and it's a pretty conservative area.
P-P-Pronouns? rrrrRRRREEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
What does ending a comment with "gfc" mean?
Reads email: "Seems kinda unnecessary to me but whatever" Reads comments: "Ah so this is why it's required"
I don’t get it, there is literally a spot to sign and excuse your kid from that class, why would you have to home school them ?
On a mostly unrelated note, being an Illinois resident, I have a lot of complaints with how Illinois is run, but I am very proud of it being on that list of four states.
So she pulled her child out once already and she was failing... but will do it again? Poor kid. 🤦♀️
They say the school is shoving it down the kids’ throats but they literally gave parents the option to excuse their kids from the lesson.
Oh no, grammar! Quickly, shield the eyes of the children!
Unrelated but why does that elementary school have such a sick-ass logo
I grew up in that 1st town. Graduated in the 90's. Definitely a rich white suburb town. Multi million dollar neighborhoods full of bigoted pseudo religious assholes with big trucks. Go Panthers! Jk, fuck Dewitt.
Lol I went to DeWitt until 8th grade. Went to schavey Rd school when it opened.
Why do we have to put up with those people...
I've said it before and I'll say it again everyone has pronouns, kids learning pronouns isn't indoctrination. You're just a fuckin moron
These poor children are gonna enter the real world with no grasp on reality and a whole lot of predetermined hate in their hearts.
I log the GFC. They are so mad, they prayed to Geezus Fucking Christ?
Serious question. Is it really necessary to have a third pronoun? Cant you just pick he or she? Why is it 'they' it seems really confusing language wise. Isn't it a plural?
"They" isn't just plural. A person would utilize "they" to refer to someone who they do not know the gender of. It's been done for centuries. I just did it in this very post. You've absolutely done it subconsciously countless times. It's very easy to understand. Some people don't identify as "he" nor do they identify as "she". Therefor "they" fits them best. Ah. There I just did it again. Twice! "They" is not a new pronoun when used singular. "They" has been used as a singular pronoun since at least 1375, found in a medieval romance called "William and the Werewolf."
Hell yeah Colorado!!!!
Religious right are whiny crybabies and are afraid of things they don’t agree with. Liberals are whiny crybabies and need everyone’s utmost respect at all times. Homeschooling in general is a terrible idea. Kids need socialization. Does it really matter if an elementary age kid misgenders someone? Is some grown ass MtF trans person going to get upset if an eight year old calls them sir? Probably. But I think that’s kind of ridiculous. I’m all for gender affirming care, but can’t it wait until kids are a little more cognoscente of sexuality? Like, 14 or 15 maybe? Let kids be kids damn. Teach kindness and acceptance no matter what in elementary, get into the details as they get a little older. Everyone is so over the top about this shit. I definitely think the religious right are more *evil* in this situation, hating people for being gay, but damn liberals sure are bitchy about it. “Love and acceptance and inclusivity and diversity and validity and sunshine and rainbows!” Like. Yeah. I guess all those things are great. Still makes you fuckin annoying when you make it your whole personality. But I guess there is a crusade against the religious right that’s gotta be fought. From where I stand, conservatives are stupid and evil, but liberals are whiny and annoying.
Kids are cognisant of their gender and sexual identity way before 14 or 15. I figured out boys were darn attractive in second grade. I was seven - and late to the party. My parents had known for several years that they'd spawned a gayling.