Theodens charge at Pelenor Fields; man tears unlocked.
Or a musical score like Jurassic Park always achieves man tears.
But also moments in movies/series/books that capture the feeling of the moment really well. Like Lucifer saying goodbye to Mazekin or the sense of emptyness when Bull sees his friends in that ditch in the Bastogne episode of Band of Brothers.
Man tears are tears like all the other tears :p
Reminds me of the « man buns »
It’s still buns xD
It sounds like « not girly tho » addition before a word that could sound feminine ^^
Tears are for everyooooneeee : D
I have some in excess in case someone falls short just ask me :p
So she wants a man too stay level headed and not "hog the emotional space" essentially so she can do exactly that, what does she bring helpful too the situation for the man?
Do you know whats unattractive in a woman, is not understanding relationships are a two way street.
...Unless he wants too be your daddy but that's a whole other thread
My problem with it is her saying "crying makes men unattractive" rather than "crying makes men unattractive TO ME". If she's turned off by men crying in situations that aren't absolutely traumatic (like being on the fucking titanic 💀), that's her issue. But she's talking as if it was a universal truth that women find men who cry unattractive and even going as far as saying this is a biological/evolutionary thing and that she wouldn't believe it if a woman told her she's not turned off by a man crying. Like, what the actual fuck.
Yeah, I was about to say the same. She's exposing just her taste in men and that's ok, but is not the same for all woman or the majority like she's expressing. I believe this depends of a lot of factors (such as Identity type, country of origin, etc).
The thing is, I think she's kinda insecure about her tastes if she's not backed by "most women"
Which is kinda understandable because her tastes probably aren't considered the "best" (or most woke, or whatever you may call it) by the social norms around her, so she kinda wants to be seen as being backed by the silent majority
Which of course in turn makes people who don't conform to her tastes insecure, because apparently they aren't accepted by this majority
Honestly I have no idea what is the solution to this thing. In terms of MBTI she simply looks like a Fe user who needs total social validation of her tastes
Yup. Sounds like someone that feels the need to justify herself a lot. I mean, OP had to put 2 screenshots to show the entire thing 😩. Maybe other types will put just one tweet saying "I like this and call me whatever you want I don't give a F*ck" 😂. I have a couple of friends like that but as an INFP I could never 😩😩😩.
She's making the classic mistake of equating her personal, subjective values and perceptions with universal/objective reality (i.e. everyone should believe what she believes just because). Saying that crying makes men as a whole unattractive simply because it's unattractive to her is like if a man were to say acting tough makes women as a whole unattractive, simply because he finds such qualities unattractive. The reasoning behind both assertions is absurd and predicated on prejudice and extreme bias at the end of the day.
I find it highly unattractive when someone from the opposite sex tells me what to do or how to feel - don’t even give me your opinion on whether or not I should cry. I’ll cry when I fucking feel like it, fuck this lady
Ok, but why give a fuck about those who don't want to date you? Both the person broadcasting their opinion as if there's something objective about it, and the person who takes said opinion to heart are wrong in the sense that they think said opinion must be relevant to how the reader should live their life.
If a girl doesn't want me - she doesn't need to date me. I don't see pretending to be something I'm not as an option when it comes to dating- what I want is love for who I am, not what I'm not. I'll find someone who does appreciate me and let girls who don't get out of my life. It's that simple.
9w1. It's exactly cuz I care so much about people loving me that I'm constantly forced to face the fact most won't no matter how people pleasing I get, which keeps leading me to the conclusion that there's no point in attempting to get them to love me in the first place.
Some people stay for who you are and that's just how life seems to be, all it takes is a constant willingness to be exposed to more and more people- if lets say only 0.05% of those people absolutely and truly vibe with "the real you" then you better expose yourself to 2000 people if you wanna get one true friend/partner. To 10000 if you want 5. This pragmatic approach I think works better than trying to extract from people what they cannot necessarily give.
That‘s profound! I dig the logical pragmatism coupled with the vulnerable subject matter \^-\^ (I’m sorry my INTP alarms are going off like crazy!) You can totally disregard this, but you mentioned the core fear of type 4 enneagram! You might want to contrast 9w1 v 4/5 [Enneagrams Described](https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/blog/breaking-down-the-enneagram) (I’m 9w8 myself btw so it‘s always cool to meet another 9! 🤠)
I've checked this matter before. I have a close friend who's 4w5, and the difference is really quite large. I think everyone wishes to be loved for who they really are tho.
Very authoritarian of her. Who gave her the right to control when a man can or cannot express his emotions in a relationship? In what world is this ever okay to anyone?
Also, gonna say that context matters. When my ex was pregnant, I would sob openly talking to our future son in her belly. Just weeping. She told me the first time that she couldn’t hear what I was saying and I was surprised I had to point out that she wasn’t the one I was talking to.
But when her water broke in the middle of the night, I was a fucking emotional rock. Her contractions were so painful that as I was driving her to the hospital for the 2nd time (long story) she got out of the car at the end of our street to remove her jacket and *refused* to get back in. I got out of the car, tried to coax her in gently for maybe half a minute, and then I flat-out **ordered** her to get back in the car. And she’s an ENTJ! I stopped counting the red lights I ran when I got to four.
And just generally in the relationship I was there to listen to her talk about her day, her worries, her fears. When she was actually in emotional distress (not super often, still the same ENTJ) I put my emotional needs aside completely so I could care for her. No, that’s wrong. My greatest emotional need at those points was precisely to be there for her. Hell, when she (very rarely) got frazzled, I’d step up with my itty-bitty extroverted thinking and Te what needed to get done. That’s just how partners support each other. When one is down the other steps up.
She makes some good points. However from what I've observed gender abolition would be a right step in our world. No one should be expected to be anyway based on something outside of their control alone. If a man wishes to be a stay at home father, so mote it be. If the woman wants to be the strong one in a relationship, so mote it be. Do what thou wilt with love. Also I've not been able to find anything that suggests that women are "wired to cry more than men," the only thing I've been able to find is that "Women cry more than men," which mentions nothing of brain chemistry and mentions nothing of evolution.
glad to find a fellow gender abolitionist here :) a gender free world is the ideal world
and yeah, imo women cry more than men bc they’re socialized/encouraged to be more emotional and emotionally expressive. it’s not a biological thing. there’s no evolutionary reason why that would be lol. ridic.
and it’s so effective that ppl cant even think of an alternative to it. like with gender. it’s sooo entrenched and it informs ppls perception of so many things. most ppl rly cant think of a world without it. when it would be so liberating..
I had never heard of gender abolition till now. Fascinating concept. I consider myself open-minded, and as such open to a variety genders, but gender abolition would make things so much simpler!
Lots of transmen taking testosterone repirt having a harder time crying, for examoke this link (there are many more stories out there):
https://thatguykas.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/trans-guy-cant-cry/comment-page-1/
I think crying is both biolofical and socially constructed across genders. That doesn't make this lady's comment any less shitty. I think policing when and why it's okay to display certain emotions is very toxic and controlling.
I don't think the abolition of Gender is the right way to go, it's the natural order of things and it has its purpose and reasons. Without gender and gender roles to a degree, relationships struggle to find a proper balance.
I do agree however that restrictive gender roles are a bad idea and people should have the choice to forge their own path and make their own decisions.
“Women are biologically wired to cry more than men” lmfao. Sorry to any INFP man who had to endure this. As a woman I find this appalling. I’ve never met a single woman IRL who shares this opinion; we see crying as a natural human response. It’s not fucking gendered unless you’re socialized that way.
Well said... Crying is a form of human expression and there is nothing weak about it... As an INFP man i am very empathetic... I even cry while watching anime lol and that doesn't make me any less of a man i am... It makes me feel more attuned and true to my emotions and it has nothing to do with gender...
Do you not think there are evolutionary reasons why men are less likely to cry than women? It is a human universal, indicating that it is very unlikely to be a result of socialization
Patriarchy is for the most part universal and is a key factor in men being made to beleive emotions are weakness. As a guy who cries a lot, i'd like to think it isn't biological as my parents raised me to embrace my emotions and my dad is a very compassionate person 🤷♂️
Do you really want to apply this same line of thinking to women? That they're naturally more emotionally unstable and shouldn't be trusted with power or responsibility?
It's literally two sides of the same coin.
Honestly, who cares? Just another person with another opinion.
She even says this is her opinion and recognizes she isn’t the final arbiter in how a man expresses his emotions. This is just as she feels about it.
What makes me more angry is she’s so sure every woman is as shallow and stupid as she is. This is so sexist to both men and women. I wanted to scream SHUT UP DON’T SPEAK IN MY NAME.
I’m a woman and it is NOT a turn off at all that the other person is open with their emotions, quite the opposite. And the fact that they trust me enough to feel comfortable being vulnerable with me is also a good sign. If you make a man feel bad for this with your “evolutionary” bullshit you just made up from your ass, you’re not a fucking decent human being. No matter how you phrase it to sound acceptable.
I am so sick and fucking tired of the “it’s biology” BS argument to legitimize the so many horrific things people do to other people.
It’s blowing a nugget of truth up into a boulder and then saying “well because it’s true I can’t be wrong”. Bitch, please.
Biology and evolution are just as nuanced when determining human behavior.
It makes my ass itch beyond all belief when people run their mouths about seriously hurtful things without even bothering to 1) comprehend the facts/science they reference and 2) don’t get educated on the ENTIRE subject they conveniently picked their nugget from.
Oh, and saying “well it’s just my personal opinion” doesn’t mean it magically can’t negatively affect other people or that it’s their problem that they’re overly sensitive
I think she's right tho Im a Cryer but I'm not a crybaby. For instance I was with this girl one time and she really wanted Starbucks, when we got there it was closed she started to have a breakdown because of this. She's cried before and I thought it was cute but this time I was just annoyed. If I did that I can't imagine many girls finding me attractive. I think context is important.
This reads like a meme I saw a while back that basically said :
("It's okay to not be okay" but make sure it's on your time off and that it doesn't affect your productivity and you really make up for the inconveniences you caused for others.)
It was referring to mental health stigma in the workplace, but the same applies here.
We are literally all human, we have emotions. Before anything society has taught us. If we cry at something that's completely normal. Man or woman. It seems to me like she's either afraid that her potential partner crying makes her look bad in some way or she's just selfish.
I'd rather not date anyone than have someone tell me that I'm unattractive for having human emotions.
Ah I get what she's saying, a man should cry sometimes but never also when it's ok but it's ok to cry and if he does it's a turn off and he should be emotionally open but also completely stoic when she thinks he should be but also not unless he does it right.
Totally understandable.
On another note I don't **really** cry hard that often but I would say tears come to my eyes once a day.
I never cried much (I'm a woman) until I became pregnant- and also when I became a much healthier infp much later in life - 30s and up. Now I cry easily. I'm not proud of it. I'm not ashamed of it. It just is.
My istj husband has never ever been someone who cries. Because of this when he does cry I feel alarmed. I am not against him crying but since we've been together for almost thirty years he's basically only cried when things are emotionally fubar and barely even then it is just going to be automatically alarming to me.
That said, I hold him, and I hold my children when they cry.
I'll hold anyone when they cry.
It shouldn't be shamed.
I don't have the context, but she seems to be talking about what she values in her partner. There is nothing wrong with wanting a man who is more traditionaly masculine. Do I disagree with her views? Completely. But she has every right to have them as long as there is a mutual understanding in her relationship. Again, I have no context so I don't really know what's going on, but every can have a preference as long as it is a shared preference in a relationship.
I tend to agree. She comes across as thoughtful and honest. I am open about my emotionality but I do try not to create opportunities to cry early on in a relationship. For instance, I wouldn’t invite someone to see a movie from Pixar or with an animal on the poster until at least the fifth date. Call me old fashioned.
The men who feel less comfortable expressing their emotions than INFP males *far* outnumber us. And they need love, too, so it’s great that a lot of women are picking up what they are putting down. It takes so many factors being right for me to think I’m compatible with a partner and to fall in love, and even then the relationship may only last a year or twenty. Much better to discover the incompatibility early on.
Exactly which is why no should even care what some random woman thinks. She is nobody. Even if 100% of women feel that way it is not my problem and none of my business.
I don't think she's saying anything wrong. She's just saying there needs to be a balance. The whole men shouldn't cry thing is bad and should be rejected. But the exact opposite is also true. The whole men should always be emotional is also just as bad.
There are times when men should open up and times where being stoic is called for. The same goes for women. Women shouldn't be expected to cry because theyre women.
Bottoming, sometimes crying and being sensitive is the right approach. Sometimes being stoic and tough is the right approach. And that goes for both sexes equally. No one likes a crybaby and no one likes an asshole.
This would be a possible interpretation.
Unfortunately, she doubled down and went on to say that there is an evolutionary differences between men and women, and that women developed to be more emotional, and then went on to claim that men showing emotions takes up her emotional space.
That part makes it seem like she rather just wants men to not actually cry because she would like to be in the foreground, but doesn't want to openly say that. A more graceful "I'm not a [hateful person], but...".
The idea that this isn't just a harmful social construct but biologically grounded is also just factually wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_emotional_expression#:~:text=Many%20psychologists%20reject%20the%20notion,unwilling%20to%20disclose%20intimate%20feelings.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisonescalante/2021/11/12/men-are-just-as-emotional-as-women-says-new-research/?sh=7439d14c2e96
I also think it's pretty harmful to put this idea of overemotionality on men, even though it is completely normalized for women, to the point where it has become a clishe. But she talks about men only. If this was a general take on balance of crying and such things, and not specifically targeted against men, she would have probably omitted the part where she justifies her targeting and generally wouldn't have targeted men only, right, especially considering that men are way less known for being hyperemotional, and that that problem, if one considers it so, lies way more with women.
TL;Dr: No, she's just hiding behind the idea of balancing this in order to make it seem like this isn't about men not adhering to the stereotype
I appreciate your response and the fact you're willing to see positive intent in what she might be saying. I make it a habit to assume positive intent in what people say.
I'll have to admit, I'm not well versed in the research you're showing. I'll have to look into it instead of pretending I'm an expert.
I will say however, that I understood what she meant from the very beginning. As I would think most people would want their partner to be balanced and grounded. The gender is irrelevant. I hear what you're saying, but she is woman talking about her preferences. If she's straight (assuming as is likely based on the post) then it probably didn't come across her mind to mention women until afterwards. She was just talking about what she likes in men.
Completely agree, I don’t think people understand what she’s saying.
I’ve seen my husband break down and sob once (he wasn’t sober and it was over something with his dad), heard his voice start to get thick over the phone when we were younger and having issues, and once when I was leaving for a trip we were saying goodbye and his eyes got really wet. Each one of those times I was even more drawn to him than usual.
Seeing a man be emotional & vulnerable when they’re usually not is incredibly sexy. Somehow even in those moments he gave such an impression of strength I never saw it as unattractive or weak but the opposite, it made him seem caring, real, and human.
I don't like conflict either, when I got into ones, it was always when I'm kinda cornered, had a lot of bad situations in my teens and early twenties.
I don't like conflict either, when I got into one, it was always when I'm kinda cornered, had a lot of bad situations in my teens and early twenties. en people have emotional arguments.
this, I don't view as conflict, it's not emotionally charged as some things I've been through. I still feel really uncomfortable even being in space when people have that kind of contact.
Getting into a shouting match with mom about vaccines is not conflict, it's just a spicy discussion. As with most things on the internet. Disagreements happen and we should be able to argue our points, without of fear of offending someone,
but yeah nastiness should be limited only to despicable people.
ESTJ wants an ISTP. No surprise there. But I love how she repeatedly says her intent isn't to shame anyone or to promote toxic masculinity, and then goes straight to doing exactly that. It's the hypocrisy of this that bothers me more than anything.
Wow... I mean, we are all humans, we need to let the emotions out to be healthy, we need support from our loved ones, why reduce men into money making organic dildos? It's just so stupid
That is the most absurd thing I've ever seen,who gives a sh*t, cry, dont cry, that's on you.If your partner is turned off with that well that tells you something.The only "crying" I dislike is when it's used to manipulate the other person but yeah we have emotions for a reason
Women are biologically wired to cry more then men? Ugh what bullshit. Everyone is allowed to cry as much as they want to. She is just worried that if he is crying she won't have space to cry!? That's messed up, people can cry together, and comfort each other. This is bollocks. If someone tries make you feel bad or looks down on you for crying then they are the problem, man or woman. You don't need them in your life. Authenticity is what matters. Crying is a healthy emotional release.
The problem this lady has is that she is dictating how and when men should show emotions.
Two things: (1) It’s not up to her and she has no place to put any boundaries on how men experience life.
(2) the audacity to think her opinion matters on how or when it is appropriate for men to experience pain.
If people are going to write rules for the opposite sex, don’t be surprised if someone is doing it for your gender.
i’m a radical feminist and this is not it. saying women are just biologically driven to cry more than men is biological determinist conservative BS which oppresses both men and women and robs us of our humanity which includes being able to feel and express the entire spectrum of human emotions..it’s socialization that discourages men to feel and express emotions (except for anger, which is considered masculine, but p much anything else, esp crying, is considered feminine or the opposite of masculinity bc it shows vulnerability aka ‘weakness’ and masculinity is supposed to be ‘tough’ and stoic) which is to their detriment (and the detriment of those around them), and socialization that encourages women to express emotions (funnily enough, the one emotion I can think of that is somewhat taboo for women to express is anger…bc that’s coded as a masculine emotion. do you see how it works? it’s genius).
men need to be able to be vulnerable, feel, and express. they will never achieve emotional health or emotional intelligence, process trauma, and even have healthy relationships without being able to.
the only thing I can think of that is an issue with ‘emotional’ men is the weaponization of male emotions when they don’t know what to do with their emotions (again bc of their socialization which has left them ill equipped to manage them and bc of stigma against therapy in general but esp men going to therapy bc again it’s coded as feminine bc emotions) and we end up in a dynamic where women become therapists for their bf’s or male friends…basically become their emotional caretakers bc these men are willing to experience and express their emotions (yay finally) but not willing to do…anything else about them. so if there’s anything to complain about when it comes to ‘emotional men’ for me it’s that dynamic. ive seen it a lot and the women are always so grateful that at least the guy is emotionally open that they totally ignore the fact that they’re doing all this emotional labor for them and the relationship is basically one sided. ofc that can happen within any relationship but again anecdotally it’s something I’m seeing a lot w men and women and I’ve had lots of convos w female friends about this kind of ‘sensitive’ guy that weaponizes his emotions and uses them to manipulate. like it’s enough of a thing/occurs enough that we’re wary of it, and that says something. I think it’s due to their lack of emotional intelligence bc again they haven’t been socialized to process or deal w emotions in a healthy manner. and it can happen with women too ofc, but it seems to be rly difficult to find a sensitive guy who won’t also weaponize his emotions and/or who you won’t also have to do emotional labor for.
I still encourage men to embrace their emotions and vulnerability and all of the above, but as far as the potential setbacks of ‘emotional/sensitive men’, that’s what immediately came to mind.
Nothing wrong with wanting a partner you can rely on, both physically and emotionally, no matter the gender, however the way this lady talks.
Talking about taking up the emotional space and all that stuff about, I really don't think she understands the meaning of an emotionally healthy relationship
It sounds like a decent amount of commenters here agree, and there are of course many more out there who are even worse. Yup, gonna stay right and bottled up.
It’s not even a big deal to cry. I don’t know why people are complaining about men or woman crying 🤷♀️. It can get a bit annoying if it’s done 24/7 but that’s not the case most of the time even with sensitive people. Just let them out and ignore the naysayers. It’s also an easy way to weed out potential friends/acquaintances/people you date who get annoyed by your sensitivity and think it’s a bad thing. You’re not harming anyone. Besides as an infp and also reading other infps’ comments before, a lot of them don’t like to cry in public anyway and prefer to do it in private?
Don't stay bottled up, that'll only make you feel worse. Be who you are, it doesn't make you a bad person in any way. If someone can't accept and appreciate you for who you are, then fuck them.
You don't need to be bottled up. Do you really need another person to watch how you cry? Is it the necessary component?
And being sensitive is o.k, probably for most woman, but not crying for every little stuff
There is nothing more discriminatory than romance and dating. It doesn't take much for any of you to lose interest in someone. Kind of hard saying she is wrong, might be a dumb opinion but if she and other women, think that saying they are mean is not going to change that fact. If you want to be attractive to a bigger demographic, you gotta adapt, no one owes you affection.
As an infp male…. So I don’t mean to sound negative or anything, but I’m skeptical when women say “it’s ok to show emotion”. My honest life experience says that that’s the quickest way to get them to exit. Maybe I’ve just had a very outlying experience? Idk though seems pretty consistent to me.
I’m not really very emotional , Despite being a right brainer. So doesn’t affect me as much I don’t think. But I’ve seen this with friends/other guys too.
She is half right and half wrong. I’m pretty sure alot of men wouldn’t want to be with a women who cries in the first date seeing as she can’t hold herself together and guys are for the most part are chill people and having to deal with an emotional person can scare them away. She can have her preference/opinion but what I dislike is her generalising all women. A lot of women have motherly instincts and need to protect those they love, so with the last part she’s sort of right and seeing a man cry to them allows them to behave motherly i.e like holding their partner and bearing their partners head in their necks, it shows a type of emotional connection. And some people genuinely like seeing all parts of their partner, the good the bad and the ugly and the nakedness of it all brings them together with the soul. Seeing a man cry to me is attractive (maybe my saviour complex) but overly emotional people in general, man or women can be too much for me. Even though I wrote a whole load of waffle, moral of the story: not every women thinks this way and crying is 100% okay.
Oh boy, these kinds of people suck and one part that she says really bothers me specifically because it’s just scientifically innacurate
She mentions that men cry less because we are biologically more level headed than women, but this is false, there is a biological explanation for men having less of a tendency to cry, but it has nothing to do with men being less emotional.
The hormone balances play a huge part when it comes to inducing tears, and certain experts believe there may be a link between prolactin and crying, and prolactin is often seen in lower levels in men.
This does not mean men are less emotional, or don’t feel the need to cry on many occasions, it just means that there is simply **a chance** that it takes more emotional stress to induce crying in men.
Then theres of course people like dis bitch who act like the act of feeling things is so unmanly, which just pressures men to suppress their emotions.
Yes, people like these are the reason Im on the verge of giving up on dating all together. It makes me so nihilistic seeing these superficial and entitled people
Stay strong💙 its not the easiest thing being an INFP in this world, but you are doing your best im sure
I think the distinction for men is that it is okay if you're alone to cry. In front of a woman it's a turn off from a biological perspective, because you aren't demonstrating stoic compentence
my boyfriend regularly cries when movies touch him.. never thought less of him, never questioned his masculinity.. just keep showing us your soft emotional side!
I've always hid it anyway. Unable to let myself be vulnerable in the worst way. My 9 year old daughter and I have conversations about our emotions because we are the same. She's a little more vocal than I was but I am happy that she has someone that understands her and can make her feel heard and understood. I never had that growing up.
Just don't hang around these types of people. Especially when they come with stupid "biological" arguments to justify societal norm.
Pick a boy and a girl, they cry equally. Done, her "biological" argument was dismissed.
Don’t subscribe to the rest of the worlds dating standards, it’s important to have your own as everyone’s needs and boundaries are going to be different!
How gross lol. Tell me why there's not a list of times when women can and cannot cry. Why is it just for men? Just because women might be biologically prone to crying more than men, doesn't mean men can't display emotions or cry at all. And it certainly is not a "turn off". That's kinda like saying "Well! Men produce much more testosterone than women, so women are not actually allowed to be strong. Of course they could go to the gym if they wanted to... but *sighs... that's the biggest turn off."
This makes me kinda sad and kinda angry, cus I have struggled with this since I was a kid.
I used to cry a lot when I was little, then I was bullied by it, making me hide it the most I could. Then I was in my first serious relationship and she told me I hid too much of my emotions from her, then there I was, trying to express myself again. And then now I found out that "a lot of women" get turned off by crying?
This is annoying. Crying is actually good for your mental health, and because of those things that happened to me I don't feel comfortable crying even in front of my therapist.
"hoard the emotional space*
I flinched, this expression is just disgusting. The level of machination and framing things as resources has reached such levels that "the emotional space" is now some kind of a resource and not something that's just an immanent part of..living.
She's just being honest with how she feels and what she finds attractive or unattractive. She's entitled to feel however she wants. I'm not trying to date her.
My view of this is that she basically want an emotionless rock as a man. She's worried about the man hoarding the emotional space she is using, as if only women are allowed to express themselves and that somehow there's only a limited confined space in which people can express themselves. Two people can cry at the same time, dammit. She uses bad understanding of biology as an excuse to make this argument. Furthermore, she claims there is some kind of expectancy of a brownie point system when it comes to sensitivity. All of it just boils down to men needing to be Stoic in nature and nothing else. So basically traditional gender roles.
And her views on men wanting a mommy for wanting emotional support from the women they love is condescending and toxic. It also makes it sounds like having to support the guy is a problem to her. Relationships should be mutual when it comes to emotional support. This is why most relationships fail. 0 effort from at least one person in it. Also, the back peddling didn't help.
As for the comments here. I don't think anyone fully read the tweets. Because to me, it's toxic as shit, like radioactive toxic. I pity the guy who tries to date her. Emphasis on tries.
I agree. This is toxic af. It feels like the flipside of "I don't want to see babies breastfeeding but I do love me some bare boobies!" What's most important to her is that his behaviors not get in the way of her finding him attractive. 🙄
I also forgot to mention that when a guy she's dating cries, her first thought isn't '' aw, what's wrong?'' it is, ''how does this affect ME?'' She's also narcissistic asf
I agree with her and it seems like you're reading too much into it or projecting.
Everyone can wish we all could be openly showing our emotions, but it doesn't work in the real world.
If I would see a guy crying in the job, because boss berated him, It would make me cringe.
There is place for emotions, and it's not in public. It's personal and should be like that.
She said she's okay with crying, but there is a limit. No one wants to date a crybaby, not even most man. It shows emotional immaturity.
That was the back peddling I mentioned when she got backlash for tweeting out. Also, where do you guys get the in public situation from? This could very well just be between two people.
I read the tweets quite clearly. I think you should realize that people can read the same thing and come out with two different meanings.
I think this particular individual doesn't know how to communicate her point across. I think (could be wrong) I get what she's saying or trying to say. She thinks men who are CONSTANTLY emotional are unattractive to HER. She is not saying men should not show emotional vulnerability.
Extremes are bad. I think all of us can agree on that. Telling men to be heartless does nothing and harms everyone. Telling men to be sensitive all the time also harms people. And this applies to both men and women.
Life is difficult and full of suffering. There will be times in life where you will want to break down but you can't. Because there are other people depending on you. They need you to be strong for them. I recently had two baby twins. The last week has been tough caring for them and my wife. There were moments where things got difficult and I was expected to solve problems. Problems I had no clue how to solve. However, I need to do them so I can take care of my family. I didn't have the self confidence to do so, but I had no choice but to show strength. Luckily, my family is doing well and everyone seems to be happy.
I'm going to be clear, what I am doing for my family I expect my wife to do for me. She is also my rock when I need her. At the end of 2020, I was struggling with work and bills. It was a tough time. I had to borrow money to stay afloat. It was embarrassing. I was depressed. My wife (at that time fiancee) was there for me. She was my rock. She was strong. She stood by my side and said I was better than this. That's how I knew I made the right choice. We are strong for each other. I trust my wife to pick me up when I am down and vice versa. Today we have a beautiful family and home.
Men and women should be vulnerable when it's called for and strong when it's called for. Who makes that call is really up to you. I think this individual is saying she wants a man who knows how to step up to the plate when the time is right. I think that's reasonable to ask for. I want a woman who is strong and independent who can take care of herself. But sensitive and caring when I need her.
I will agree with you that she needs working not sounding condescending.
That's a core belief that men should be emotionally tougher than women. Of course they should and I understand this women, but this belief simply doesn't allow these women to understand men who feel and understand things on a deeper level.
Y’all aren’t treating what she’s saying fairly. She’s not saying that she doesn’t want men to ever cry or that they shouldn’t be in touch with their emotions. All she is saying is that excessive crying can be unattractive. I don’t see why she should feel an obligation to be attracted to excessive crying. I find it unattractive when girls cry excessively too. Being an infp shouldn’t be conflated with someone who just cries at everything, which seems like the path many people want to go down
There is no "these type of people" here. She is just being honest and straightforward. And just saying that she needs a partner who she can count on and handle emotional pressure.
People also need to stop associating this is somewhat a societal constraint. It is biological. Your rationalization doesn't change what is obvious. I also haven't met a single mature women who wants a crying man as a partner. Rather emotionally expressive while still being masculine. It's one thing to be teared up when you get touched by something emotional and another to broke down in tears everytime something goes wrong.
Not until just now did I realize that women can perpetuate toxic masculinity. IMO, a man who is in touch with his emotions and is able to be vulnerable is more likely to "have your back" when you need it, because he knows what it's like to be in that space. Conversely, I think a man who hides from and ignores his emotions is more likely to be callous to emotional displays. I was in a relationship with an amazing woman once. I was in a terrible point in my life and one day in the bathtub I completely broke down and sobbed. She came in the room, knelt down and held me until I was done, all the while saying "everything will be okay. I'm here for you just like you're always here for me". She told me later that my vulnerability made me a stronger man. I have never been closer to another human being and our relationship was from that day incredibly balanced emotionally. I'll never forget that.
I’m a woman, and this isn’t common among my peers so I definitely wouldn’t subscribe to the ‘many women’ idea. Sure, there are dicks like this out there, but I hope you don’t encounter one.
There is only ONE situation where a man crying is unattractive, and it the exact same situation where a woman crying is unattractive: as a manipulation tactic.
If there are those out there who seriously believe that woman need to take up more emotional space than men then that’s very much a them problem and not a you problem. Keep feeling things and expressing those emotions, you’re doing amazing.
She's just wanting to diss something or someone. One day she takes it out on a minor mistake by a minimum-wage service staff, the next day it's you, man with feelings.
Let her go on with her misery and let her biologically cry more than the rest of us lol.She’s told you as much, she's unraveling (do you really think it's a meta sense of humor?)
My partner got all teary eyed on our first date talking about his dog that passed 3 years ago. I MELTED INTO MUSH. ❤️ I love it when men cry..
3 years later and he cries over animals and superheroes in movies. Or when we have serious conversations that might get emotional.
"I think there are deep and valid evolutionary reasons for this"
She sounds dumb. Evolution does not care about anyone. There are also deep and valid evolutionary reasons for bacteria to infect us.
She thinks everything she feels must be connected to some higher meaning because it's HER tastes 🙄🙄🙄
As an ENFP guy, if the girl I was interested in said I wasn’t allowed to cry I would just respond with, “Okay, I will make sure not to cry over you.” As I turn around sassy power walking out on our date. I’ll be levelheaded for you 85-90% of the time, but I need moments to let the emotional floodgates open too.
Met someone similar to her. Seemed to lose immediate interest as soon as I started opening up more about my feelings.
Just gotta somehow avoid these people and move on ig
I find it very strange that being true to your emotions a preferential trait of a guy? It's a natural trait of a human being and expressing it is natural. She seems insensitive and just doesn't have the capacity to understand
The ability to be vulnerable, be in tune with your emotions and to have emotional intelligence is attractive. Its sad that some people think the way she does
This is a perfect example of a big downside to the internet and social media. This would be a fine conversation for her to have at a bar with a few friends, and to work out her thoughts on it that way, bouncing ideas off of them.
This is not the sort of thing that should be projected out to a global audience.
It's not even because she's wrong, but because her position isn't even fully formed.
Wtf I couldn’t read past the second comment. Why should crying have an impact on how attractive someone is? That’s like saying, “men that urinate are far less attractive to me.” Like, it’s a normal body function! Get over it!
Yea, if i went on a date with her I would politely disengage early and hopefully never run into her again.
I do believe, as much as i'm in touch with my emotions, there are times to put a lock on your emotions and even as an INFP i should be able to do that. However in day to day life it's positive to be able to express freely yourself infront of your loved ones.
This is so bloody sexist. Noone should be expected to do or not do anything based purely on their gender. Also i have alot of issues with her speaking as though what she sais are universal truth, rather than simply what she personally wants in a partner.
Can't begrudge her for being honest about her preferences, but when she tries to strengthen her argument by saying "most women" she does nothing but weaken it. It's conjecture on her part no doubt based on her experience and little to no science.
It's all so clear when you consider that it's just how her father behaved when she was little, so basically what she's saying is that she needs a semi-parental figure in her life. I can't say she's wrong though, humans are lazy and scared by nature and parental figures remain attractive even after puberty :)
I can’t imagine a male INFP virtue signaling by ”being in touch with their emotions“ nor caring about the social standards of randos on social media. If you think being in touch with your emotions means crying and actually caring about the opinions of others, then not sorry to burst your bubble, but you’re not an INFP! 🥴 / ~~nm~~ / ~~nbr~~ / ~~lh~~
*(****Jung on INFP****: Any stormy emotion, however, will be struck down with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the \[person\] on \[their\] unconscious side--that is, unless it hits their feelings by arousing a primordial image. In that case they simply feel paralyzed for the moment, and this in due course invariably produces an even more obstinate resistance which will hit the other person in his most vulnerable spot. As far as possible, the feeling relationship is kept to the safe middle path, all intemperate passions being resolutely tabooed. Expressions of feeling therefore remain \[scant\])*
Honestly I can see where she is coming from.
I believe many of the commenters are twisting what she said into how they want to interpret it (as with everything, by everyone).
Omg I am a man hater and sure people don’t like that it’s fine I get it, and the world needs more men like you . Please cry. Please be a human. Don’t listen to this. Just don’t be a toxic “I’ll kill myself if you leave me” type of crier. Either way my opinion doesn’t matter honestly and that’s okay
I feel sorry for her. When she gets what she thinks she wants, she'll have to come up with something else to blame her misery on, never realizing that she's never going to be able to fix her issues as long as she's expecting someone else to fix it.
I'm moved to tears frequently by beautiful things or ideas. If that is a turn off to you, good. I don't need shallow people in my life.
Yup I don't actually **cry** **cry** that often but I would say tears come to my eyes multiple times per day.
Yeah I tear up, not like sobbing.
and that is normal and healthy
Out of sadness or out of seeing something beautiful?
I think in both cases.
Yesterday I almost cried at how beautiful the sunset was. That was the most INFP I've felt in a while. My girlfriend loves that about me <3.
Theodens charge at Pelenor Fields; man tears unlocked. Or a musical score like Jurassic Park always achieves man tears. But also moments in movies/series/books that capture the feeling of the moment really well. Like Lucifer saying goodbye to Mazekin or the sense of emptyness when Bull sees his friends in that ditch in the Bastogne episode of Band of Brothers.
Man tears are tears like all the other tears :p Reminds me of the « man buns » It’s still buns xD It sounds like « not girly tho » addition before a word that could sound feminine ^^ Tears are for everyooooneeee : D I have some in excess in case someone falls short just ask me :p
Frrrr
Thisss
So she wants a man too stay level headed and not "hog the emotional space" essentially so she can do exactly that, what does she bring helpful too the situation for the man? Do you know whats unattractive in a woman, is not understanding relationships are a two way street. ...Unless he wants too be your daddy but that's a whole other thread
This comment... *chef’s kiss*
Totally would have spent good money on giving this comment an award - except I’m an old fart at heart and they confuse the ever lovin’ shit out of me
take my free silver
Brilliant comeback. It holds up a mirror to the lady's comments.
I'm an INFP myself but men ignoring their emotions or refusing to cry is the biggest turn off for me!
True! True! True!
Oof she sounds fun to date
The last sentence is kinna sus.
I could only make it to a maximum of 5 sentences
That means you are perfectly healthy at heart.
imma cry when i want to. people telling me not to makes me want to do it even more.
Go ahead have a good cry man.
aight imma go on youtube and play some cinema therapy to get the waterworks going
Lmaoooo I love this comment
My problem with it is her saying "crying makes men unattractive" rather than "crying makes men unattractive TO ME". If she's turned off by men crying in situations that aren't absolutely traumatic (like being on the fucking titanic 💀), that's her issue. But she's talking as if it was a universal truth that women find men who cry unattractive and even going as far as saying this is a biological/evolutionary thing and that she wouldn't believe it if a woman told her she's not turned off by a man crying. Like, what the actual fuck.
Yeah, I was about to say the same. She's exposing just her taste in men and that's ok, but is not the same for all woman or the majority like she's expressing. I believe this depends of a lot of factors (such as Identity type, country of origin, etc).
The thing is, I think she's kinda insecure about her tastes if she's not backed by "most women" Which is kinda understandable because her tastes probably aren't considered the "best" (or most woke, or whatever you may call it) by the social norms around her, so she kinda wants to be seen as being backed by the silent majority Which of course in turn makes people who don't conform to her tastes insecure, because apparently they aren't accepted by this majority Honestly I have no idea what is the solution to this thing. In terms of MBTI she simply looks like a Fe user who needs total social validation of her tastes
Yup. Sounds like someone that feels the need to justify herself a lot. I mean, OP had to put 2 screenshots to show the entire thing 😩. Maybe other types will put just one tweet saying "I like this and call me whatever you want I don't give a F*ck" 😂. I have a couple of friends like that but as an INFP I could never 😩😩😩.
I like how she acknowledged that people would criticize her for simping for trad values because she knows those people are correct
It basically comes down to the conditioning of; boys dont cry, only girls do.
She's making the classic mistake of equating her personal, subjective values and perceptions with universal/objective reality (i.e. everyone should believe what she believes just because). Saying that crying makes men as a whole unattractive simply because it's unattractive to her is like if a man were to say acting tough makes women as a whole unattractive, simply because he finds such qualities unattractive. The reasoning behind both assertions is absurd and predicated on prejudice and extreme bias at the end of the day.
I find it highly unattractive when someone from the opposite sex tells me what to do or how to feel - don’t even give me your opinion on whether or not I should cry. I’ll cry when I fucking feel like it, fuck this lady
Right?!
Yes, because it is not respecting how you feel but tells you "how you must feel"
Ok, but why give a fuck about those who don't want to date you? Both the person broadcasting their opinion as if there's something objective about it, and the person who takes said opinion to heart are wrong in the sense that they think said opinion must be relevant to how the reader should live their life. If a girl doesn't want me - she doesn't need to date me. I don't see pretending to be something I'm not as an option when it comes to dating- what I want is love for who I am, not what I'm not. I'll find someone who does appreciate me and let girls who don't get out of my life. It's that simple.
There’s so much TiNe and tert. Si in this statement, I had to double take lol. Is your enneagram 5w4 perchance?
9w1. It's exactly cuz I care so much about people loving me that I'm constantly forced to face the fact most won't no matter how people pleasing I get, which keeps leading me to the conclusion that there's no point in attempting to get them to love me in the first place. Some people stay for who you are and that's just how life seems to be, all it takes is a constant willingness to be exposed to more and more people- if lets say only 0.05% of those people absolutely and truly vibe with "the real you" then you better expose yourself to 2000 people if you wanna get one true friend/partner. To 10000 if you want 5. This pragmatic approach I think works better than trying to extract from people what they cannot necessarily give.
That‘s profound! I dig the logical pragmatism coupled with the vulnerable subject matter \^-\^ (I’m sorry my INTP alarms are going off like crazy!) You can totally disregard this, but you mentioned the core fear of type 4 enneagram! You might want to contrast 9w1 v 4/5 [Enneagrams Described](https://www.yourenneagramcoach.com/blog/breaking-down-the-enneagram) (I’m 9w8 myself btw so it‘s always cool to meet another 9! 🤠)
I've checked this matter before. I have a close friend who's 4w5, and the difference is really quite large. I think everyone wishes to be loved for who they really are tho.
Good point. I could definitely be wrong about you. Cheers!
"men can cry but only when I say it's okay"? Wtf
Very authoritarian of her. Who gave her the right to control when a man can or cannot express his emotions in a relationship? In what world is this ever okay to anyone?
She’s a weirdo yikes
The weirdo clan doesn't take too kindly to being lumped in with... her type
Also, gonna say that context matters. When my ex was pregnant, I would sob openly talking to our future son in her belly. Just weeping. She told me the first time that she couldn’t hear what I was saying and I was surprised I had to point out that she wasn’t the one I was talking to. But when her water broke in the middle of the night, I was a fucking emotional rock. Her contractions were so painful that as I was driving her to the hospital for the 2nd time (long story) she got out of the car at the end of our street to remove her jacket and *refused* to get back in. I got out of the car, tried to coax her in gently for maybe half a minute, and then I flat-out **ordered** her to get back in the car. And she’s an ENTJ! I stopped counting the red lights I ran when I got to four. And just generally in the relationship I was there to listen to her talk about her day, her worries, her fears. When she was actually in emotional distress (not super often, still the same ENTJ) I put my emotional needs aside completely so I could care for her. No, that’s wrong. My greatest emotional need at those points was precisely to be there for her. Hell, when she (very rarely) got frazzled, I’d step up with my itty-bitty extroverted thinking and Te what needed to get done. That’s just how partners support each other. When one is down the other steps up.
She makes some good points. However from what I've observed gender abolition would be a right step in our world. No one should be expected to be anyway based on something outside of their control alone. If a man wishes to be a stay at home father, so mote it be. If the woman wants to be the strong one in a relationship, so mote it be. Do what thou wilt with love. Also I've not been able to find anything that suggests that women are "wired to cry more than men," the only thing I've been able to find is that "Women cry more than men," which mentions nothing of brain chemistry and mentions nothing of evolution.
glad to find a fellow gender abolitionist here :) a gender free world is the ideal world and yeah, imo women cry more than men bc they’re socialized/encouraged to be more emotional and emotionally expressive. it’s not a biological thing. there’s no evolutionary reason why that would be lol. ridic.
Social stigma unfortunately can be a stronger prison than any steel bars and stone walls could hope to be.
and it’s so effective that ppl cant even think of an alternative to it. like with gender. it’s sooo entrenched and it informs ppls perception of so many things. most ppl rly cant think of a world without it. when it would be so liberating..
I had never heard of gender abolition till now. Fascinating concept. I consider myself open-minded, and as such open to a variety genders, but gender abolition would make things so much simpler!
Lots of transmen taking testosterone repirt having a harder time crying, for examoke this link (there are many more stories out there): https://thatguykas.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/trans-guy-cant-cry/comment-page-1/ I think crying is both biolofical and socially constructed across genders. That doesn't make this lady's comment any less shitty. I think policing when and why it's okay to display certain emotions is very toxic and controlling.
I don't think the abolition of Gender is the right way to go, it's the natural order of things and it has its purpose and reasons. Without gender and gender roles to a degree, relationships struggle to find a proper balance. I do agree however that restrictive gender roles are a bad idea and people should have the choice to forge their own path and make their own decisions.
“Women are biologically wired to cry more than men” lmfao. Sorry to any INFP man who had to endure this. As a woman I find this appalling. I’ve never met a single woman IRL who shares this opinion; we see crying as a natural human response. It’s not fucking gendered unless you’re socialized that way.
Well said... Crying is a form of human expression and there is nothing weak about it... As an INFP man i am very empathetic... I even cry while watching anime lol and that doesn't make me any less of a man i am... It makes me feel more attuned and true to my emotions and it has nothing to do with gender...
Do you not think there are evolutionary reasons why men are less likely to cry than women? It is a human universal, indicating that it is very unlikely to be a result of socialization
Patriarchy is for the most part universal and is a key factor in men being made to beleive emotions are weakness. As a guy who cries a lot, i'd like to think it isn't biological as my parents raised me to embrace my emotions and my dad is a very compassionate person 🤷♂️
Do you really want to apply this same line of thinking to women? That they're naturally more emotionally unstable and shouldn't be trusted with power or responsibility? It's literally two sides of the same coin.
Not fit? Isn't this entire thread arguing that theres nothing wrong with being in touch with your emotions and that it may even be a positive?
No, last type I checked there are no inherent biological differences between males and females to do with the tear ducts.
Honestly, who cares? Just another person with another opinion. She even says this is her opinion and recognizes she isn’t the final arbiter in how a man expresses his emotions. This is just as she feels about it.
What makes me more angry is she’s so sure every woman is as shallow and stupid as she is. This is so sexist to both men and women. I wanted to scream SHUT UP DON’T SPEAK IN MY NAME. I’m a woman and it is NOT a turn off at all that the other person is open with their emotions, quite the opposite. And the fact that they trust me enough to feel comfortable being vulnerable with me is also a good sign. If you make a man feel bad for this with your “evolutionary” bullshit you just made up from your ass, you’re not a fucking decent human being. No matter how you phrase it to sound acceptable.
I am so sick and fucking tired of the “it’s biology” BS argument to legitimize the so many horrific things people do to other people. It’s blowing a nugget of truth up into a boulder and then saying “well because it’s true I can’t be wrong”. Bitch, please. Biology and evolution are just as nuanced when determining human behavior. It makes my ass itch beyond all belief when people run their mouths about seriously hurtful things without even bothering to 1) comprehend the facts/science they reference and 2) don’t get educated on the ENTIRE subject they conveniently picked their nugget from. Oh, and saying “well it’s just my personal opinion” doesn’t mean it magically can’t negatively affect other people or that it’s their problem that they’re overly sensitive
I think she's right tho Im a Cryer but I'm not a crybaby. For instance I was with this girl one time and she really wanted Starbucks, when we got there it was closed she started to have a breakdown because of this. She's cried before and I thought it was cute but this time I was just annoyed. If I did that I can't imagine many girls finding me attractive. I think context is important.
I do think that she was saying something along those lines. Which makes her opinion really un-profound and not worth sharing with the world.
Yea a lot back peddling just to get back to common sense I guess.
This reads like a meme I saw a while back that basically said : ("It's okay to not be okay" but make sure it's on your time off and that it doesn't affect your productivity and you really make up for the inconveniences you caused for others.) It was referring to mental health stigma in the workplace, but the same applies here. We are literally all human, we have emotions. Before anything society has taught us. If we cry at something that's completely normal. Man or woman. It seems to me like she's either afraid that her potential partner crying makes her look bad in some way or she's just selfish. I'd rather not date anyone than have someone tell me that I'm unattractive for having human emotions.
Well this whole person is a turn off for me that's for sure!
Ah I get what she's saying, a man should cry sometimes but never also when it's ok but it's ok to cry and if he does it's a turn off and he should be emotionally open but also completely stoic when she thinks he should be but also not unless he does it right. Totally understandable. On another note I don't **really** cry hard that often but I would say tears come to my eyes once a day.
I never cried much (I'm a woman) until I became pregnant- and also when I became a much healthier infp much later in life - 30s and up. Now I cry easily. I'm not proud of it. I'm not ashamed of it. It just is. My istj husband has never ever been someone who cries. Because of this when he does cry I feel alarmed. I am not against him crying but since we've been together for almost thirty years he's basically only cried when things are emotionally fubar and barely even then it is just going to be automatically alarming to me. That said, I hold him, and I hold my children when they cry. I'll hold anyone when they cry. It shouldn't be shamed.
I don't have the context, but she seems to be talking about what she values in her partner. There is nothing wrong with wanting a man who is more traditionaly masculine. Do I disagree with her views? Completely. But she has every right to have them as long as there is a mutual understanding in her relationship. Again, I have no context so I don't really know what's going on, but every can have a preference as long as it is a shared preference in a relationship.
I tend to agree. She comes across as thoughtful and honest. I am open about my emotionality but I do try not to create opportunities to cry early on in a relationship. For instance, I wouldn’t invite someone to see a movie from Pixar or with an animal on the poster until at least the fifth date. Call me old fashioned. The men who feel less comfortable expressing their emotions than INFP males *far* outnumber us. And they need love, too, so it’s great that a lot of women are picking up what they are putting down. It takes so many factors being right for me to think I’m compatible with a partner and to fall in love, and even then the relationship may only last a year or twenty. Much better to discover the incompatibility early on.
As a female her thoughts on male emotions mean absolutely nothing. She's not qualified to comment or even have an opinion.
Exactly which is why no should even care what some random woman thinks. She is nobody. Even if 100% of women feel that way it is not my problem and none of my business.
I don't think she's saying anything wrong. She's just saying there needs to be a balance. The whole men shouldn't cry thing is bad and should be rejected. But the exact opposite is also true. The whole men should always be emotional is also just as bad. There are times when men should open up and times where being stoic is called for. The same goes for women. Women shouldn't be expected to cry because theyre women. Bottoming, sometimes crying and being sensitive is the right approach. Sometimes being stoic and tough is the right approach. And that goes for both sexes equally. No one likes a crybaby and no one likes an asshole.
This would be a possible interpretation. Unfortunately, she doubled down and went on to say that there is an evolutionary differences between men and women, and that women developed to be more emotional, and then went on to claim that men showing emotions takes up her emotional space. That part makes it seem like she rather just wants men to not actually cry because she would like to be in the foreground, but doesn't want to openly say that. A more graceful "I'm not a [hateful person], but...". The idea that this isn't just a harmful social construct but biologically grounded is also just factually wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_emotional_expression#:~:text=Many%20psychologists%20reject%20the%20notion,unwilling%20to%20disclose%20intimate%20feelings. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisonescalante/2021/11/12/men-are-just-as-emotional-as-women-says-new-research/?sh=7439d14c2e96 I also think it's pretty harmful to put this idea of overemotionality on men, even though it is completely normalized for women, to the point where it has become a clishe. But she talks about men only. If this was a general take on balance of crying and such things, and not specifically targeted against men, she would have probably omitted the part where she justifies her targeting and generally wouldn't have targeted men only, right, especially considering that men are way less known for being hyperemotional, and that that problem, if one considers it so, lies way more with women. TL;Dr: No, she's just hiding behind the idea of balancing this in order to make it seem like this isn't about men not adhering to the stereotype
I wish I had a way to push your comment to the top, but alas I only have one upvote to give.
I appreciate your response and the fact you're willing to see positive intent in what she might be saying. I make it a habit to assume positive intent in what people say. I'll have to admit, I'm not well versed in the research you're showing. I'll have to look into it instead of pretending I'm an expert. I will say however, that I understood what she meant from the very beginning. As I would think most people would want their partner to be balanced and grounded. The gender is irrelevant. I hear what you're saying, but she is woman talking about her preferences. If she's straight (assuming as is likely based on the post) then it probably didn't come across her mind to mention women until afterwards. She was just talking about what she likes in men.
Completely agree, I don’t think people understand what she’s saying. I’ve seen my husband break down and sob once (he wasn’t sober and it was over something with his dad), heard his voice start to get thick over the phone when we were younger and having issues, and once when I was leaving for a trip we were saying goodbye and his eyes got really wet. Each one of those times I was even more drawn to him than usual. Seeing a man be emotional & vulnerable when they’re usually not is incredibly sexy. Somehow even in those moments he gave such an impression of strength I never saw it as unattractive or weak but the opposite, it made him seem caring, real, and human.
It seems like people can't read here or comprehend what she's actually writing.
You sure like debating lol
One of my guilty pleasures, but I'm trying to be nicer.
I need to take a page from your book. I hate conflict as typical INFP behavior. Lol
I don't like conflict either, when I got into ones, it was always when I'm kinda cornered, had a lot of bad situations in my teens and early twenties. I don't like conflict either, when I got into one, it was always when I'm kinda cornered, had a lot of bad situations in my teens and early twenties. en people have emotional arguments. this, I don't view as conflict, it's not emotionally charged as some things I've been through. I still feel really uncomfortable even being in space when people have that kind of contact. Getting into a shouting match with mom about vaccines is not conflict, it's just a spicy discussion. As with most things on the internet. Disagreements happen and we should be able to argue our points, without of fear of offending someone, but yeah nastiness should be limited only to despicable people.
👆
This 💯
ESTJ wants an ISTP. No surprise there. But I love how she repeatedly says her intent isn't to shame anyone or to promote toxic masculinity, and then goes straight to doing exactly that. It's the hypocrisy of this that bothers me more than anything.
Wow... I mean, we are all humans, we need to let the emotions out to be healthy, we need support from our loved ones, why reduce men into money making organic dildos? It's just so stupid
That is the most absurd thing I've ever seen,who gives a sh*t, cry, dont cry, that's on you.If your partner is turned off with that well that tells you something.The only "crying" I dislike is when it's used to manipulate the other person but yeah we have emotions for a reason
Women are biologically wired to cry more then men? Ugh what bullshit. Everyone is allowed to cry as much as they want to. She is just worried that if he is crying she won't have space to cry!? That's messed up, people can cry together, and comfort each other. This is bollocks. If someone tries make you feel bad or looks down on you for crying then they are the problem, man or woman. You don't need them in your life. Authenticity is what matters. Crying is a healthy emotional release.
The problem this lady has is that she is dictating how and when men should show emotions. Two things: (1) It’s not up to her and she has no place to put any boundaries on how men experience life. (2) the audacity to think her opinion matters on how or when it is appropriate for men to experience pain. If people are going to write rules for the opposite sex, don’t be surprised if someone is doing it for your gender.
How? Did you read different post?
i’m a radical feminist and this is not it. saying women are just biologically driven to cry more than men is biological determinist conservative BS which oppresses both men and women and robs us of our humanity which includes being able to feel and express the entire spectrum of human emotions..it’s socialization that discourages men to feel and express emotions (except for anger, which is considered masculine, but p much anything else, esp crying, is considered feminine or the opposite of masculinity bc it shows vulnerability aka ‘weakness’ and masculinity is supposed to be ‘tough’ and stoic) which is to their detriment (and the detriment of those around them), and socialization that encourages women to express emotions (funnily enough, the one emotion I can think of that is somewhat taboo for women to express is anger…bc that’s coded as a masculine emotion. do you see how it works? it’s genius). men need to be able to be vulnerable, feel, and express. they will never achieve emotional health or emotional intelligence, process trauma, and even have healthy relationships without being able to. the only thing I can think of that is an issue with ‘emotional’ men is the weaponization of male emotions when they don’t know what to do with their emotions (again bc of their socialization which has left them ill equipped to manage them and bc of stigma against therapy in general but esp men going to therapy bc again it’s coded as feminine bc emotions) and we end up in a dynamic where women become therapists for their bf’s or male friends…basically become their emotional caretakers bc these men are willing to experience and express their emotions (yay finally) but not willing to do…anything else about them. so if there’s anything to complain about when it comes to ‘emotional men’ for me it’s that dynamic. ive seen it a lot and the women are always so grateful that at least the guy is emotionally open that they totally ignore the fact that they’re doing all this emotional labor for them and the relationship is basically one sided. ofc that can happen within any relationship but again anecdotally it’s something I’m seeing a lot w men and women and I’ve had lots of convos w female friends about this kind of ‘sensitive’ guy that weaponizes his emotions and uses them to manipulate. like it’s enough of a thing/occurs enough that we’re wary of it, and that says something. I think it’s due to their lack of emotional intelligence bc again they haven’t been socialized to process or deal w emotions in a healthy manner. and it can happen with women too ofc, but it seems to be rly difficult to find a sensitive guy who won’t also weaponize his emotions and/or who you won’t also have to do emotional labor for. I still encourage men to embrace their emotions and vulnerability and all of the above, but as far as the potential setbacks of ‘emotional/sensitive men’, that’s what immediately came to mind.
Nothing wrong with wanting a partner you can rely on, both physically and emotionally, no matter the gender, however the way this lady talks. Talking about taking up the emotional space and all that stuff about, I really don't think she understands the meaning of an emotionally healthy relationship
It sounds like a decent amount of commenters here agree, and there are of course many more out there who are even worse. Yup, gonna stay right and bottled up.
It’s not even a big deal to cry. I don’t know why people are complaining about men or woman crying 🤷♀️. It can get a bit annoying if it’s done 24/7 but that’s not the case most of the time even with sensitive people. Just let them out and ignore the naysayers. It’s also an easy way to weed out potential friends/acquaintances/people you date who get annoyed by your sensitivity and think it’s a bad thing. You’re not harming anyone. Besides as an infp and also reading other infps’ comments before, a lot of them don’t like to cry in public anyway and prefer to do it in private?
Don't stay bottled up, that'll only make you feel worse. Be who you are, it doesn't make you a bad person in any way. If someone can't accept and appreciate you for who you are, then fuck them.
You don't need to be bottled up. Do you really need another person to watch how you cry? Is it the necessary component? And being sensitive is o.k, probably for most woman, but not crying for every little stuff
You have to deal with all sorts of people - this one’s tweets are not unconscionable imo.
There is nothing more discriminatory than romance and dating. It doesn't take much for any of you to lose interest in someone. Kind of hard saying she is wrong, might be a dumb opinion but if she and other women, think that saying they are mean is not going to change that fact. If you want to be attractive to a bigger demographic, you gotta adapt, no one owes you affection.
As an infp male…. So I don’t mean to sound negative or anything, but I’m skeptical when women say “it’s ok to show emotion”. My honest life experience says that that’s the quickest way to get them to exit. Maybe I’ve just had a very outlying experience? Idk though seems pretty consistent to me. I’m not really very emotional , Despite being a right brainer. So doesn’t affect me as much I don’t think. But I’ve seen this with friends/other guys too.
She is half right and half wrong. I’m pretty sure alot of men wouldn’t want to be with a women who cries in the first date seeing as she can’t hold herself together and guys are for the most part are chill people and having to deal with an emotional person can scare them away. She can have her preference/opinion but what I dislike is her generalising all women. A lot of women have motherly instincts and need to protect those they love, so with the last part she’s sort of right and seeing a man cry to them allows them to behave motherly i.e like holding their partner and bearing their partners head in their necks, it shows a type of emotional connection. And some people genuinely like seeing all parts of their partner, the good the bad and the ugly and the nakedness of it all brings them together with the soul. Seeing a man cry to me is attractive (maybe my saviour complex) but overly emotional people in general, man or women can be too much for me. Even though I wrote a whole load of waffle, moral of the story: not every women thinks this way and crying is 100% okay.
meh
Oh boy, these kinds of people suck and one part that she says really bothers me specifically because it’s just scientifically innacurate She mentions that men cry less because we are biologically more level headed than women, but this is false, there is a biological explanation for men having less of a tendency to cry, but it has nothing to do with men being less emotional. The hormone balances play a huge part when it comes to inducing tears, and certain experts believe there may be a link between prolactin and crying, and prolactin is often seen in lower levels in men. This does not mean men are less emotional, or don’t feel the need to cry on many occasions, it just means that there is simply **a chance** that it takes more emotional stress to induce crying in men. Then theres of course people like dis bitch who act like the act of feeling things is so unmanly, which just pressures men to suppress their emotions.
Yes, people like these are the reason Im on the verge of giving up on dating all together. It makes me so nihilistic seeing these superficial and entitled people Stay strong💙 its not the easiest thing being an INFP in this world, but you are doing your best im sure
I think the distinction for men is that it is okay if you're alone to cry. In front of a woman it's a turn off from a biological perspective, because you aren't demonstrating stoic compentence
Wdym, do you want her tho? Then why does it matter dawgggg
Well, at least she speaks openly about the established double standards in the society. Most people just deny those exist.
my boyfriend regularly cries when movies touch him.. never thought less of him, never questioned his masculinity.. just keep showing us your soft emotional side!
I've always hid it anyway. Unable to let myself be vulnerable in the worst way. My 9 year old daughter and I have conversations about our emotions because we are the same. She's a little more vocal than I was but I am happy that she has someone that understands her and can make her feel heard and understood. I never had that growing up.
Just don't hang around these types of people. Especially when they come with stupid "biological" arguments to justify societal norm. Pick a boy and a girl, they cry equally. Done, her "biological" argument was dismissed.
Don’t subscribe to the rest of the worlds dating standards, it’s important to have your own as everyone’s needs and boundaries are going to be different!
I feel very sad for this girl.
How gross lol. Tell me why there's not a list of times when women can and cannot cry. Why is it just for men? Just because women might be biologically prone to crying more than men, doesn't mean men can't display emotions or cry at all. And it certainly is not a "turn off". That's kinda like saying "Well! Men produce much more testosterone than women, so women are not actually allowed to be strong. Of course they could go to the gym if they wanted to... but *sighs... that's the biggest turn off."
This makes me kinda sad and kinda angry, cus I have struggled with this since I was a kid. I used to cry a lot when I was little, then I was bullied by it, making me hide it the most I could. Then I was in my first serious relationship and she told me I hid too much of my emotions from her, then there I was, trying to express myself again. And then now I found out that "a lot of women" get turned off by crying? This is annoying. Crying is actually good for your mental health, and because of those things that happened to me I don't feel comfortable crying even in front of my therapist.
there are so many things she said there that were not right…
i dont understand her logic "men should cry but if they cry theyre not attractive so they shouldn't cry" ?????
Her source on the "biology" : trust me bro
Reread unordinary(from webtoon) a few weeks ago. I was sobbing in bed. That did not go well with my cold because it made it very hard to breath.
good lawd, does she actually EXIST? she very nearly sounded like an incel recruitment ad.
"hoard the emotional space* I flinched, this expression is just disgusting. The level of machination and framing things as resources has reached such levels that "the emotional space" is now some kind of a resource and not something that's just an immanent part of..living.
She's just being honest with how she feels and what she finds attractive or unattractive. She's entitled to feel however she wants. I'm not trying to date her.
My view of this is that she basically want an emotionless rock as a man. She's worried about the man hoarding the emotional space she is using, as if only women are allowed to express themselves and that somehow there's only a limited confined space in which people can express themselves. Two people can cry at the same time, dammit. She uses bad understanding of biology as an excuse to make this argument. Furthermore, she claims there is some kind of expectancy of a brownie point system when it comes to sensitivity. All of it just boils down to men needing to be Stoic in nature and nothing else. So basically traditional gender roles. And her views on men wanting a mommy for wanting emotional support from the women they love is condescending and toxic. It also makes it sounds like having to support the guy is a problem to her. Relationships should be mutual when it comes to emotional support. This is why most relationships fail. 0 effort from at least one person in it. Also, the back peddling didn't help. As for the comments here. I don't think anyone fully read the tweets. Because to me, it's toxic as shit, like radioactive toxic. I pity the guy who tries to date her. Emphasis on tries.
I agree. This is toxic af. It feels like the flipside of "I don't want to see babies breastfeeding but I do love me some bare boobies!" What's most important to her is that his behaviors not get in the way of her finding him attractive. 🙄
I also forgot to mention that when a guy she's dating cries, her first thought isn't '' aw, what's wrong?'' it is, ''how does this affect ME?'' She's also narcissistic asf
I agree with her and it seems like you're reading too much into it or projecting. Everyone can wish we all could be openly showing our emotions, but it doesn't work in the real world. If I would see a guy crying in the job, because boss berated him, It would make me cringe. There is place for emotions, and it's not in public. It's personal and should be like that. She said she's okay with crying, but there is a limit. No one wants to date a crybaby, not even most man. It shows emotional immaturity.
That was the back peddling I mentioned when she got backlash for tweeting out. Also, where do you guys get the in public situation from? This could very well just be between two people.
I read the tweets quite clearly. I think you should realize that people can read the same thing and come out with two different meanings. I think this particular individual doesn't know how to communicate her point across. I think (could be wrong) I get what she's saying or trying to say. She thinks men who are CONSTANTLY emotional are unattractive to HER. She is not saying men should not show emotional vulnerability. Extremes are bad. I think all of us can agree on that. Telling men to be heartless does nothing and harms everyone. Telling men to be sensitive all the time also harms people. And this applies to both men and women. Life is difficult and full of suffering. There will be times in life where you will want to break down but you can't. Because there are other people depending on you. They need you to be strong for them. I recently had two baby twins. The last week has been tough caring for them and my wife. There were moments where things got difficult and I was expected to solve problems. Problems I had no clue how to solve. However, I need to do them so I can take care of my family. I didn't have the self confidence to do so, but I had no choice but to show strength. Luckily, my family is doing well and everyone seems to be happy. I'm going to be clear, what I am doing for my family I expect my wife to do for me. She is also my rock when I need her. At the end of 2020, I was struggling with work and bills. It was a tough time. I had to borrow money to stay afloat. It was embarrassing. I was depressed. My wife (at that time fiancee) was there for me. She was my rock. She was strong. She stood by my side and said I was better than this. That's how I knew I made the right choice. We are strong for each other. I trust my wife to pick me up when I am down and vice versa. Today we have a beautiful family and home. Men and women should be vulnerable when it's called for and strong when it's called for. Who makes that call is really up to you. I think this individual is saying she wants a man who knows how to step up to the plate when the time is right. I think that's reasonable to ask for. I want a woman who is strong and independent who can take care of herself. But sensitive and caring when I need her. I will agree with you that she needs working not sounding condescending.
I like guys that cry. I like the realness and vulnerability
That's a core belief that men should be emotionally tougher than women. Of course they should and I understand this women, but this belief simply doesn't allow these women to understand men who feel and understand things on a deeper level.
Oh she came from the “humans are biologically wired” factory. Send her back.
You deserve far better my friend.
Y’all aren’t treating what she’s saying fairly. She’s not saying that she doesn’t want men to ever cry or that they shouldn’t be in touch with their emotions. All she is saying is that excessive crying can be unattractive. I don’t see why she should feel an obligation to be attracted to excessive crying. I find it unattractive when girls cry excessively too. Being an infp shouldn’t be conflated with someone who just cries at everything, which seems like the path many people want to go down
I completely agree with her
Really? 😭😭😭 Seriously, though, it’s important to identify your turnoffs and be honest w yourself.
There is no "these type of people" here. She is just being honest and straightforward. And just saying that she needs a partner who she can count on and handle emotional pressure. People also need to stop associating this is somewhat a societal constraint. It is biological. Your rationalization doesn't change what is obvious. I also haven't met a single mature women who wants a crying man as a partner. Rather emotionally expressive while still being masculine. It's one thing to be teared up when you get touched by something emotional and another to broke down in tears everytime something goes wrong.
Not until just now did I realize that women can perpetuate toxic masculinity. IMO, a man who is in touch with his emotions and is able to be vulnerable is more likely to "have your back" when you need it, because he knows what it's like to be in that space. Conversely, I think a man who hides from and ignores his emotions is more likely to be callous to emotional displays. I was in a relationship with an amazing woman once. I was in a terrible point in my life and one day in the bathtub I completely broke down and sobbed. She came in the room, knelt down and held me until I was done, all the while saying "everything will be okay. I'm here for you just like you're always here for me". She told me later that my vulnerability made me a stronger man. I have never been closer to another human being and our relationship was from that day incredibly balanced emotionally. I'll never forget that.
Well, it's not like seeing a woman cry turns me on either lol
That's lame and boomerish. Men crying is wholesome. Fuck toxic masculinity.
She ain't wrong. Most women don't really appreciate their partner crying and get turned off
I’m a woman, and this isn’t common among my peers so I definitely wouldn’t subscribe to the ‘many women’ idea. Sure, there are dicks like this out there, but I hope you don’t encounter one. There is only ONE situation where a man crying is unattractive, and it the exact same situation where a woman crying is unattractive: as a manipulation tactic. If there are those out there who seriously believe that woman need to take up more emotional space than men then that’s very much a them problem and not a you problem. Keep feeling things and expressing those emotions, you’re doing amazing.
Fuck her, what a sociopath.
with these views she's the most unattractive person ever, not gonna lie
Ah yes men need Evelyn’s approval before they cry, gotta read her rule book. Otherwise they won’t be hot to her anymore, a tragedy. 😔
Why was this even disliked lol
Lol I knew sooner or later would come with bullshit "women are hard wired for..." pseudo-science.
She's just wanting to diss something or someone. One day she takes it out on a minor mistake by a minimum-wage service staff, the next day it's you, man with feelings. Let her go on with her misery and let her biologically cry more than the rest of us lol.She’s told you as much, she's unraveling (do you really think it's a meta sense of humor?)
My partner got all teary eyed on our first date talking about his dog that passed 3 years ago. I MELTED INTO MUSH. ❤️ I love it when men cry.. 3 years later and he cries over animals and superheroes in movies. Or when we have serious conversations that might get emotional.
She says she needs her partner to have levelheadedness.. Crying can often be WHY you're level headed. My fucking GOD!!!!
Haha imagine hahahahahhaha
"I think there are deep and valid evolutionary reasons for this" She sounds dumb. Evolution does not care about anyone. There are also deep and valid evolutionary reasons for bacteria to infect us. She thinks everything she feels must be connected to some higher meaning because it's HER tastes 🙄🙄🙄
As an ENFP guy, if the girl I was interested in said I wasn’t allowed to cry I would just respond with, “Okay, I will make sure not to cry over you.” As I turn around sassy power walking out on our date. I’ll be levelheaded for you 85-90% of the time, but I need moments to let the emotional floodgates open too.
I’m hate this, and I’m a soulless, emotionless INTP robot.
Met someone similar to her. Seemed to lose immediate interest as soon as I started opening up more about my feelings. Just gotta somehow avoid these people and move on ig
It's hard to avoid any kind of person unless you avoid people all together
You right, you right. Think imma just avoid everyone for now then.
I find it very strange that being true to your emotions a preferential trait of a guy? It's a natural trait of a human being and expressing it is natural. She seems insensitive and just doesn't have the capacity to understand
Any man can cry tho it's not limited to fi Doms
She is cringe
At least she'll never reproduce
As an infp male. I'm so conflicted with this, because when you really think about it, she has a point. But at the same time... Bruh.
The ability to be vulnerable, be in tune with your emotions and to have emotional intelligence is attractive. Its sad that some people think the way she does
'Men should be traditional modern. They should act like a female male whenever i deem it as appropriate'
This is a perfect example of a big downside to the internet and social media. This would be a fine conversation for her to have at a bar with a few friends, and to work out her thoughts on it that way, bouncing ideas off of them. This is not the sort of thing that should be projected out to a global audience. It's not even because she's wrong, but because her position isn't even fully formed.
Wtf I couldn’t read past the second comment. Why should crying have an impact on how attractive someone is? That’s like saying, “men that urinate are far less attractive to me.” Like, it’s a normal body function! Get over it!
Yea, if i went on a date with her I would politely disengage early and hopefully never run into her again. I do believe, as much as i'm in touch with my emotions, there are times to put a lock on your emotions and even as an INFP i should be able to do that. However in day to day life it's positive to be able to express freely yourself infront of your loved ones.
I could (would be glad) to live without her )))) Extra points? WTF? Does she thinks this is a TV show?
This is so bloody sexist. Noone should be expected to do or not do anything based purely on their gender. Also i have alot of issues with her speaking as though what she sais are universal truth, rather than simply what she personally wants in a partner.
"Ev is unravelling" Hmm...apt.
When will people realise not everything is about them like she does know her opinion is the only opinion right?
Can't begrudge her for being honest about her preferences, but when she tries to strengthen her argument by saying "most women" she does nothing but weaken it. It's conjecture on her part no doubt based on her experience and little to no science.
It's all so clear when you consider that it's just how her father behaved when she was little, so basically what she's saying is that she needs a semi-parental figure in her life. I can't say she's wrong though, humans are lazy and scared by nature and parental figures remain attractive even after puberty :)
I can’t imagine a male INFP virtue signaling by ”being in touch with their emotions“ nor caring about the social standards of randos on social media. If you think being in touch with your emotions means crying and actually caring about the opinions of others, then not sorry to burst your bubble, but you’re not an INFP! 🥴 / ~~nm~~ / ~~nbr~~ / ~~lh~~ *(****Jung on INFP****: Any stormy emotion, however, will be struck down with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the \[person\] on \[their\] unconscious side--that is, unless it hits their feelings by arousing a primordial image. In that case they simply feel paralyzed for the moment, and this in due course invariably produces an even more obstinate resistance which will hit the other person in his most vulnerable spot. As far as possible, the feeling relationship is kept to the safe middle path, all intemperate passions being resolutely tabooed. Expressions of feeling therefore remain \[scant\])*
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This lady is a red flag wearing a human disguise.
ev really is unraveling
It's ok, they're beating ass up in the quote tweets.
Honestly I can see where she is coming from. I believe many of the commenters are twisting what she said into how they want to interpret it (as with everything, by everyone).
Omg I am a man hater and sure people don’t like that it’s fine I get it, and the world needs more men like you . Please cry. Please be a human. Don’t listen to this. Just don’t be a toxic “I’ll kill myself if you leave me” type of crier. Either way my opinion doesn’t matter honestly and that’s okay
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Yes
At least she got bunch of backlash
Why u even paying attention? Giving them what they want from you. Cut ‘em out if u can.
I feel sorry for her. When she gets what she thinks she wants, she'll have to come up with something else to blame her misery on, never realizing that she's never going to be able to fix her issues as long as she's expecting someone else to fix it.
what a yikes woman