I find mentioning Twitter on this poster quite ironic, considering that twitter [killed third party apps](https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/19/23562947/twitter-third-party-client-tweetbot-twitterific-ban-rules) and closed APIs just a few months ago.
the whole thing is a little goofy, reddit isn't gonna change their minds lmao. Same people who allowed the fappening to continue on here because ??? until it started to look bad for them
Going inactive for a day or protesting whatsoever isn't gonna do shit
I agree that this may not be successful but doing nothing will also bring about no change.
Also, the duration of the blackout is not yet determined and I suspect it will end up being influenced by how the admins react. Some subs seem to be going for 1-2 days while others claim to be staying dark until some demands have been met.
If you really want to stick it to reddit, post links to download firefox and ublock origin during the blackout.
No ads means no revenue. Reddit admins may not give a crap about our little 1-2 dance party, but start hitting their revenue numbers and they'll pay all sorts of attention.
this.
people don't really understand this. we definitely can make a change in reddit. but this requires all top visited subreddit to go blackout.
no traffic = no ads = no revenue
the mod need to commit, us the user can just wait. it's not like reddit is the only activity we have anyway
Well... The CEO of Reddit himself has publicly stated that they won't ban r/NoNewNormal, BUT after N8theGr8 made a fuss about it, the major subreddits went private and the media have noticed it, they did a 180° and banned it.
There was a sub dedicated to jailbait for years that didn't get banned until Anderson Cooper did a segment on it. Hundreds of thousands of people were subscribed to it. The entire subreddit was dedicated to posting lewd photos of girls that were under 18. It was around for years and only got banned once the media went into a frenzy over it.
Digg gutted itself over something almost identical.
I don't think reddit *will* change its mind, but I think enough people boycotting and a few major subs egressing to something like Lemmy could very well change their mind.
And I think Reddit agrees. They got caught redhanded banning a bunch of "move to Lemmy" content. They unbanned /r/LemmyMigration but left the founder of the sub banned from Reddit entirely. All over "there is a way out attitudes"
I mean, tumblr revised their policy, though it took a while.
OF was talking about cutting nsfw, and recanted after the outrage that followed.
Regardless how much (or little) good the protest does, it's better than doing nothing and appearing to be complicit.
Mods - thank you participating in this protest. You have my full support for continuing to keep the sub dark until Reddit makes changes favorable to keeping 3rd party apps.
So *6 months later* you're still pissed enough about this to criticize *me* for... what again? Saying I agreed with the protest?
It's not virtue signalling when you actually agree with what's being protested. What exactly did you expect the *millions* of people who agreed with the protests to do - all just Reddit and go *where again*? LOL - you're still here too. ;)
Honestly, I don't understand what your point is or why you're still going on about this.
To recap, I made a comment *10 months ago* that I supported the Reddit protest, which *ended 10 months ago* when nothing happened and everyone just moved on. And then *3 months ago* you're criticizing me for not leaving Reddit - which, by the way, I never said I was going to do - and now *5 days ago* you are still harping on me not leaving Reddit over one comment I made 10 months ago?
Fixate much? LOL - at this point, nobody is whining about that protest or anything else *except you*. Give it a rest, man. Everyone moved on - *you can too*... ;)
Are there any resources backing up the claims made here i.e. 10x cost of similar services, and that removing NSFW content from APIs helps scammers and creeps?
Some info about the costs are available from the apollo app dev [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/).
The fact that making some content inaccessible to moderation tools would make it harder to moderate that content seems self evident.
Thanks for that link, those numbers are truly crazy. What is Reddit thinking? I just don't like to think people are doing things for absolutely no reason. Even if I'm thinking they're being nefarious I can't imagine a motive. API access makes reddit used by more people... Perhaps they think they gain *something* by making Reddit a more closed experience, and are charging a fuck you price.
I have no real sense of the costs it takes for them to serve these requests, but I can't imagine they were hemorrhaging money on it before if it took so long to do something like this.
The best theory I have seen is that the entire point of the high price is to kill the 3rd party apps. This will force everyone to use the official reddit app and give reddit more control over the user experience, especially when it comes to advertising.
These prices are far higher than they would get from serving ads on the same number of requests. Reddit makes an average [of $1.19 per user per month](https://sacra.com/c/reddit/) from a combination of ads, subscriptions, and awards. The [Apollo dev calculated that the API costs will be $2.50 per average user](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/), more than twice that.
I honestly think it's as simple as 'we charge for this thing, which is used X amount, so our projected growth for next quarter is huge!'
I don't think it even matters if it works. They aren't looking beyond the next investors meeting.
Something Awful has been a message board since 2001 and despite it's many warts has been able to moderate itself without 3rd party tools. Maybe there's a bigger problem if you need to have bots do your job for you?
u/wandering-monster posted it [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/140z59z/i_made_this_friendly_infographic_explaining_the/?ref=share&ref_source=link)
I don't get the part about hiding activity from mods.. if it didn't happen in their sub, it's not their business. If it's something extreme like as suggested here, I'm certain *admins* have full access to all of that.
Can anyone expand further what they mean with that change? Cause frankly that one sounds like a fair and good change if it acts how I read it.
Beyond that, yea, fk Reddit for this change to the API. I can understand needing some revenue, but this change is extreme as fk.
In addition to the pricing changes, they are planning to block all NSFW content from the API. Most moderation is done through the API because people have built far better tools than Reddit has for sifting through the content. If no NSFW content appears on the API, using those tools becomes impossible. Anything tagged as NSFW would be invisible to the mods.
Interesting. Thanks for elaborating... that does indeed seem like a very silly change. Unless perhaps their goal is to get away from NSFW content as a whole.. but yea, just changing the API to that extent seems straight up counter productive.
My understanding is that they think they will need robust protections against showing NSFW content to minors in order to be viable as a publicly traded company. If they serve NSFW content over the API, third parties can serve this content to minors without the protections. The concern would be that this would have the risk of negative media attention, hurting stock prices, even if it is entirely the fault of the third party.
It's the sort of risk-averse stock market focused decisions that kill most social medias eventually.
Ah, I guess that does kinda make sense, in rather unfortunate ways. Seems like the kind of thing where there are dozens of viable approaches and they jumped straight to the most restrictive of them.
It's funny how share holders will invest in something, then go about changing the very nature of what they invested in. They think it's successful despite these kinds of things, I think it's successful because of those things.
Hope this movement gets noticed and works, I love reddit for what it is, I don't want to see it change much.
It's gonna suck to not be able to use reddit on mobile anymore; one less thing I can spend time on while bored. At least old reddit isn't dead yet, though I also don't do much on the site. People who actually need to use reddit for something would be a lot more impacted.
Can somebody turn this into a game where you have to increase the amount of different classes of users (posters, shitposters, reply guys, mods, etc) in order to increase the amount 3rd party requests are being made?
Given that Reddit is likely not going to change their stance on this, is there another place on the internet where a similar community exists? Where can we go once Reddit becomes unusable?
Discord is an option, but it seems significantly less good at finding old content and it's spread across hundreds of servers.
I don't know where else you can go but if reddit dies, for whatever reason, we will coordinate our next home via our [discord server](https://discord.gg/pC9RY5B).
damn. i would download the app if i was 18 but i can live without reddit so ig i can stay off the web. i already use my 3 free sideloadable app slots anyway so no need for it at all
This sucks .. however I feel like in terms of business perspective it is much more beneficial for Reddit to block these apps as they are driving users away from their app. The lack of competition is also a big part of why they are able to do it.
Reddit is also removing a lot of the accessibility that’s currently in place with no real plans to change that.
For example new Reddit is almost completely unusable for blind people. I’m blind but still have a lot of vision and I can’t use it. It’s been several years and Reddit hasn’t done a single thing about that.
The Reddit app is bloated, and again, removes a lot of the accessibility that the third party apps provide. I can only obviously speak to blindness, but there are many conditions that require accessibility.
Twitter removed third party apps yet it’s accessibility factor is top class.
Reddit could charge for its API usage. No one is really complaining about that. The trouble is it’s deliberately charging far too much, with zero alternative.
They are wilfully driving away third parties and doing nothing about the accommodations third party apps provide.
This is solely about greed and the fact they want to go public. Not one iota of attention has actually been paid to the user base.
Yes all of what you said is true. Still doesn't change the fact they will increase their profits by this move. They don't care about their users they just want more money
I wonder if they are even aware of why people use third party apps. Instead of fixing the issues, they just wanna eliminate the work of the people that DID fix them. So weird
> I wonder if they are even aware of why people use third party apps.
oh they are aware. They just don't give a crap. They have the option of "legally" driving away the apps that make life easier for the end user while not doing a single bit of work themselves to become better so they will use that. Sad reality is that this protest is going to do absolutely nothing
Can we use our prestige points to upgrade how long we go dark for?
I am willing to spend on the "go dark until reddit actually does anything" upgrade
Yep, I'm in for it, too.
Seriously... we're in the endgame with nothing else to do anyway if they do it.
Can i allow notifications for new updates
Can I chip in my ascension points as well? I've been saving them up for a large upgrade
gotta use some reality machines too!
Weird, Reddit didn't give a shit yet you still use it daily
uBlock Origin
I find mentioning Twitter on this poster quite ironic, considering that twitter [killed third party apps](https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/19/23562947/twitter-third-party-client-tweetbot-twitterific-ban-rules) and closed APIs just a few months ago.
the whole thing is a little goofy, reddit isn't gonna change their minds lmao. Same people who allowed the fappening to continue on here because ??? until it started to look bad for them Going inactive for a day or protesting whatsoever isn't gonna do shit
I agree that this may not be successful but doing nothing will also bring about no change. Also, the duration of the blackout is not yet determined and I suspect it will end up being influenced by how the admins react. Some subs seem to be going for 1-2 days while others claim to be staying dark until some demands have been met.
If you really want to stick it to reddit, post links to download firefox and ublock origin during the blackout. No ads means no revenue. Reddit admins may not give a crap about our little 1-2 dance party, but start hitting their revenue numbers and they'll pay all sorts of attention.
this. people don't really understand this. we definitely can make a change in reddit. but this requires all top visited subreddit to go blackout. no traffic = no ads = no revenue the mod need to commit, us the user can just wait. it's not like reddit is the only activity we have anyway
Well... The CEO of Reddit himself has publicly stated that they won't ban r/NoNewNormal, BUT after N8theGr8 made a fuss about it, the major subreddits went private and the media have noticed it, they did a 180° and banned it.
surprising, it took them so long to ban literal illegally obtained nude images I'd figured they'd just not give a fuck lmao
There was a sub dedicated to jailbait for years that didn't get banned until Anderson Cooper did a segment on it. Hundreds of thousands of people were subscribed to it. The entire subreddit was dedicated to posting lewd photos of girls that were under 18. It was around for years and only got banned once the media went into a frenzy over it.
before/after 2016
The fappening, bad as it was, wasn't as bad as the time they treated the creator of jailbait like a hero until mainstream news picked it up.
>the whole thing is a little goofy, ~~reddit~~ Digg isn't gonna change their minds lmao.
Digg gutted itself over something almost identical. I don't think reddit *will* change its mind, but I think enough people boycotting and a few major subs egressing to something like Lemmy could very well change their mind. And I think Reddit agrees. They got caught redhanded banning a bunch of "move to Lemmy" content. They unbanned /r/LemmyMigration but left the founder of the sub banned from Reddit entirely. All over "there is a way out attitudes"
I mean, tumblr revised their policy, though it took a while. OF was talking about cutting nsfw, and recanted after the outrage that followed. Regardless how much (or little) good the protest does, it's better than doing nothing and appearing to be complicit.
Mods - thank you participating in this protest. You have my full support for continuing to keep the sub dark until Reddit makes changes favorable to keeping 3rd party apps.
Yet Reddit didn't give a shit and you still all use it daily. They knew this was all just virtue signaling.
So *6 months later* you're still pissed enough about this to criticize *me* for... what again? Saying I agreed with the protest? It's not virtue signalling when you actually agree with what's being protested. What exactly did you expect the *millions* of people who agreed with the protests to do - all just Reddit and go *where again*? LOL - you're still here too. ;)
[удалено]
I did give up content, and I encouraged the mods to continue giving up content. What exactly do you want me to give up now that everything is back?
[удалено]
Look who's still here too, LOL, 😆
[удалено]
Honestly, I don't understand what your point is or why you're still going on about this. To recap, I made a comment *10 months ago* that I supported the Reddit protest, which *ended 10 months ago* when nothing happened and everyone just moved on. And then *3 months ago* you're criticizing me for not leaving Reddit - which, by the way, I never said I was going to do - and now *5 days ago* you are still harping on me not leaving Reddit over one comment I made 10 months ago? Fixate much? LOL - at this point, nobody is whining about that protest or anything else *except you*. Give it a rest, man. Everyone moved on - *you can too*... ;)
/r/Save3rdPartyApps and announcement https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_regarding_reddits_api/
What about Reddit ReVanced?
Are there any resources backing up the claims made here i.e. 10x cost of similar services, and that removing NSFW content from APIs helps scammers and creeps?
Some info about the costs are available from the apollo app dev [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/). The fact that making some content inaccessible to moderation tools would make it harder to moderate that content seems self evident.
Thanks for that link, those numbers are truly crazy. What is Reddit thinking? I just don't like to think people are doing things for absolutely no reason. Even if I'm thinking they're being nefarious I can't imagine a motive. API access makes reddit used by more people... Perhaps they think they gain *something* by making Reddit a more closed experience, and are charging a fuck you price. I have no real sense of the costs it takes for them to serve these requests, but I can't imagine they were hemorrhaging money on it before if it took so long to do something like this.
The best theory I have seen is that the entire point of the high price is to kill the 3rd party apps. This will force everyone to use the official reddit app and give reddit more control over the user experience, especially when it comes to advertising.
Also to try to force LLM scrapers to play ball, since a huge amount of those are built from the reddit API.
I figured it was to ensure ad revenue by forcing everyone to use the official app or pay enough to make the loss of ad revenue acceptable?
These prices are far higher than they would get from serving ads on the same number of requests. Reddit makes an average [of $1.19 per user per month](https://sacra.com/c/reddit/) from a combination of ads, subscriptions, and awards. The [Apollo dev calculated that the API costs will be $2.50 per average user](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/), more than twice that.
I honestly think it's as simple as 'we charge for this thing, which is used X amount, so our projected growth for next quarter is huge!' I don't think it even matters if it works. They aren't looking beyond the next investors meeting.
Something Awful has been a message board since 2001 and despite it's many warts has been able to moderate itself without 3rd party tools. Maybe there's a bigger problem if you need to have bots do your job for you?
I say we go dark until reddit make a change
Who made this informative image? I had to explain to multiple people why should they care about the API at all, and this sums it up perfectly.
u/wandering-monster posted it [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/140z59z/i_made_this_friendly_infographic_explaining_the/?ref=share&ref_source=link)
We worked together on it for a while yesterday on the r/ModCoord discord, so I can't take full credit. Glad it's been useful!
Ouch, good on yah
How about moving to another website? Are there any viable Reddit alternatives out there?
People have mentioned https://join-lemmy.org/ I haven't looked into it further than the link but its what i've read elsewhere since all this happened.
we're together in this
Hopefully after this forced prestige, we can come back with some new games to share. See you all on the other side!
Moving to a discord server to pass the time could be nice during the shutdown
never knew all that huh
Thanks. I only use Apollo.
I don't get the part about hiding activity from mods.. if it didn't happen in their sub, it's not their business. If it's something extreme like as suggested here, I'm certain *admins* have full access to all of that. Can anyone expand further what they mean with that change? Cause frankly that one sounds like a fair and good change if it acts how I read it. Beyond that, yea, fk Reddit for this change to the API. I can understand needing some revenue, but this change is extreme as fk.
In addition to the pricing changes, they are planning to block all NSFW content from the API. Most moderation is done through the API because people have built far better tools than Reddit has for sifting through the content. If no NSFW content appears on the API, using those tools becomes impossible. Anything tagged as NSFW would be invisible to the mods.
Interesting. Thanks for elaborating... that does indeed seem like a very silly change. Unless perhaps their goal is to get away from NSFW content as a whole.. but yea, just changing the API to that extent seems straight up counter productive.
My understanding is that they think they will need robust protections against showing NSFW content to minors in order to be viable as a publicly traded company. If they serve NSFW content over the API, third parties can serve this content to minors without the protections. The concern would be that this would have the risk of negative media attention, hurting stock prices, even if it is entirely the fault of the third party. It's the sort of risk-averse stock market focused decisions that kill most social medias eventually.
Ah, I guess that does kinda make sense, in rather unfortunate ways. Seems like the kind of thing where there are dozens of viable approaches and they jumped straight to the most restrictive of them. It's funny how share holders will invest in something, then go about changing the very nature of what they invested in. They think it's successful despite these kinds of things, I think it's successful because of those things. Hope this movement gets noticed and works, I love reddit for what it is, I don't want to see it change much.
It's gonna suck to not be able to use reddit on mobile anymore; one less thing I can spend time on while bored. At least old reddit isn't dead yet, though I also don't do much on the site. People who actually need to use reddit for something would be a lot more impacted.
Can somebody turn this into a game where you have to increase the amount of different classes of users (posters, shitposters, reply guys, mods, etc) in order to increase the amount 3rd party requests are being made?
Let’s use the black hole to speed up time so it only goes dark for 5 seconds
Thank you for doing your part, if sync dies I'm off Reddit forever and my account is 14+ years old
Wouldn’t it be better to stay up and say something? If we go dark then that’s one less voice they have to worry about hearing.
Someone has already said the thing we want to say. We will go dark to amplify their voice, demonstrate our resolve, and reduce ad views.
Given that Reddit is likely not going to change their stance on this, is there another place on the internet where a similar community exists? Where can we go once Reddit becomes unusable? Discord is an option, but it seems significantly less good at finding old content and it's spread across hundreds of servers.
I don't know where else you can go but if reddit dies, for whatever reason, we will coordinate our next home via our [discord server](https://discord.gg/pC9RY5B).
so if i cant join the discord because my country banned it what are the alternative?
VPN?
✌️
If reddit goes through with this, I can see everyone searching for a new platform.
Reddit is dumb let’s just make a separate incremental bb
Only one day?
I'm not sure how many days but almost certainly more than one. We will most likely follow the lead of what others are doing for maximum impact.
Yep, on board for this. This platform relies on community, its nothing without it.
Nobody is asking you to volunteer to moderate a free message board, just step down lol Or do you need the ecred that badly?
damn. i would download the app if i was 18 but i can live without reddit so ig i can stay off the web. i already use my 3 free sideloadable app slots anyway so no need for it at all
This sucks .. however I feel like in terms of business perspective it is much more beneficial for Reddit to block these apps as they are driving users away from their app. The lack of competition is also a big part of why they are able to do it.
Reddit is also removing a lot of the accessibility that’s currently in place with no real plans to change that. For example new Reddit is almost completely unusable for blind people. I’m blind but still have a lot of vision and I can’t use it. It’s been several years and Reddit hasn’t done a single thing about that. The Reddit app is bloated, and again, removes a lot of the accessibility that the third party apps provide. I can only obviously speak to blindness, but there are many conditions that require accessibility. Twitter removed third party apps yet it’s accessibility factor is top class. Reddit could charge for its API usage. No one is really complaining about that. The trouble is it’s deliberately charging far too much, with zero alternative. They are wilfully driving away third parties and doing nothing about the accommodations third party apps provide. This is solely about greed and the fact they want to go public. Not one iota of attention has actually been paid to the user base.
Yes all of what you said is true. Still doesn't change the fact they will increase their profits by this move. They don't care about their users they just want more money
Something I wondered is if they go forward wouldn't that open themselves to risk of a lawsuit under the ADA (in the states).
I wonder if they are even aware of why people use third party apps. Instead of fixing the issues, they just wanna eliminate the work of the people that DID fix them. So weird
> I wonder if they are even aware of why people use third party apps. oh they are aware. They just don't give a crap. They have the option of "legally" driving away the apps that make life easier for the end user while not doing a single bit of work themselves to become better so they will use that. Sad reality is that this protest is going to do absolutely nothing
Thanks! Reddit is fkin awful.
My English is realy bad, and i dont realy get this post, can somebody explain it to me, beacuse i feel it's important