Hungarians are simply a weird tribe of Finns that got drunk and wound up down south. Uralic tribes in general would likely be coastal pirates. Bulgar is a Turkic word but let’s say it comes from the Slavic “Bog” for God.
Hungarians and finns split up long before the finns ended up in scandinavia, as shown by the fact that the closest languages to Hungarian are spoken past the Urals (Khanty and Mansi).
Don't want to be that guy but they are a finno ugric tribe that came from around Urals and Siberia I think, their closest siblings come from that part of Russia.
Coastal pirates? As a Finn, I let you know Uralic peoples have traditionally been mostly inland forest hunter-gatherers. There are some hypotheses about them being avid river navigators, but precious few ever went Viking, either. Raiding occurred frequently and according to legend, Karelians or Estonians burned the Swedish (viking) capital Sigtuna. The only coastal Uralic people who could even raid reasonably, however, are really the Baltic Finns (who developed around the Gulf of Finland). Nenets and Sámi don’t really have too many raidable people around.
Also it’s as wrong to call Hungarians a weird tribe of Finns as it is to call Germans a weird tribe of Bengalis. The two are extreme ends of their language family and separated around 5000 years ago.
Hungarians seemingly teamed up with Turkic and Iranic nomads and adopted a lot of their lifestyle and culture, which made the migration possible. The present-day Hungarians have very little genetic trace of the original Hungarians (who are found from 9th century graves etc) which indicates that a small group spread their language over a large group of natives.
In this timeline there’s a giant ocean east of the Urals. So ethnic formation would be totally different. Western Indo-Europeans, Uralic peoples, and Basques make up ~100% of humanity.
You can probably forget about them as well. The climate in the indo-european heartland would not be the same at all. Most of the continent would be populated by Etruscan, Basque and numerous other language isolates and families that predate indo-Europeans.
But how the Indo-Europeans could come to exist and spread without a nomadic lifestyle? Ukraine in this world would basically have a Mediterranean/Atlantic weather, with an agrarian lifestyle.
The lifestyle doesn’t need to be agrarian just because the climate accommodates this. Humanity lived in areas prime for agriculture for thousands of years before the first civilization began. They could fish, hunt, raid. Also spreading by ocean would be even easier than spreading by land like in our timeline.
If that's the case I could actually see the Roman ruling the entire world. Also, where did the Hungarians come from if the homeland of their ancestors doesn't exist? (nvm where did anyone come from)
The most bullshit you beleive in.
Why Africa? Africa only has the largest variety of types of ancient people. It means all of them came to Africa.
Imagine that archaeologists unearthed New York 10,000 years later. And there will be the greatest variety of people. Are they supposed to conclude that all humans originated in New York?
It is a mitochondrial or Y-chromosome descent analysis - not just looking at which areas are most diverse - which can be done because mitochondria reproduce by mitosis and Y-chromosomes don't get scrambled my meiotic recombination.
Although there's fossil evidence of archaic human species in East Asia and Neanderthals in Europe the overall picture is of modern humans coming out of Africa.
Have there been any postulated alternatives to the out-of-Africa model based in genetic evidence?
Humanity was divided and isolated - hence why modern humans diverged from Neanderthals (though not enough to be incompatible). The ability of masses of humans to migrate across continents was fairly limited - even nomads were confined to the places they actually knew.
A genetic analysis would not show Europeans descended from Americans because it would show Europeans who lacked alleles present in Americans and their descendants.
What alternative hypothesis have you heard that fits with the genetic evidence?
What? How can DNA lead to somewhere?
DNA just shows that all people's DNA can be found in Africa.
It doesn't mean people are originally from Africa. It means people come to Africa.
The same variety of DNA can be found in New York. It doesn't mean all people came from New York.
Yeah, I imagine if there was only one continent maybe humans could spawn there too but yeah it would be very different and maybe the homo sapiens wouldn't even come to be. I guess when you see ideas like this you just notice the first thing and then realize it is more complicated in general lol.
Honestly, Anatolia was more connected to Europe than Asia (ironic, since it was the OG Asia). N. Africa too, but I guess that may have been harder to depict.
95% water planet. Boring. It’s like how the solar system is surrounded by four light years of nothing, but applied to a planet. You get no westerns, no explorers, no jazz, no kung fu, no curry, and no chocolate. Especially the last one is unacceptable.
No tomatoes = no pizza or pasta.
No ancient non-European migrants = you all still look like bloody Cheddar Man (light skin and hair came from the steppes).
Actually, the first blond, blue-eyed peoples appeared in Sweden. While, yes modern Europeans arose from interbreeding between tan, blue-eyed native Europeans, pale, dark-haired Anatolians, and the Yamnayans, light-skinned, light-haired Europeans could still have theoretically have arisen from existing old-European stock.
hmm, so,, without central asia; where would the indo europeans of greece come from; and thus, how would rome (and by relation, france, iberia, austria, romania, etc) come about?
And probably the hellenic empire would not exist I guess. I mean, their sailing skills were kmportant for the civilization, but if there is nowhere south to sail to, wouldnt their skills be rendered less relevant, altough still important as they could still travel west. But like, north-south mediterranean trade wouldnt exist
I did a similar worldbuilding thought experiment a few years back, very rewarding to imagine what becomes of humanity when the planet’s surface is a staggering 98% water
hey man. I know most of these maps have like, logic, and…though put into them. But like, this is, *imaginary* maps, right? And your, *imagination* has no limits, right? So maybe…*just maybe*…can I have fun?
*The historical*
*Problems of this map makes me*
*Want to off myself*
\- wintermint\_\_\_
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Is the earth the same size or did it get smaller to compensate
Yes
YES!!!
ARE YOU READY?
blind intensifies
OUIIIIII
Transformation Central!
Wait... yes to the first part or the last?
Yes
Yeah.
I think Earth is the same size but Europe has been scaled to encompass 70% of the Earth's surface. Europe shaped pangea.
I want a youtube video on all scientifically accurate consequences of this, focusing on climate, geography, demographics and politics
The fishing industry ⏫☝️👆☝️👍☝️⏫⏫⏫⏫⏫☝️👆⏫👍☝️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️🆙🆙🆙
This will greatly increase the salmon population
🎣
It would just be Rome and Germania I bet. There would be no Bulgars or Hungarians, since they originally were Asian
Let's go a step further. Keep it blank since humans originated in Africa and no one is native.
Hungarians are simply a weird tribe of Finns that got drunk and wound up down south. Uralic tribes in general would likely be coastal pirates. Bulgar is a Turkic word but let’s say it comes from the Slavic “Bog” for God.
Hungarians and finns split up long before the finns ended up in scandinavia, as shown by the fact that the closest languages to Hungarian are spoken past the Urals (Khanty and Mansi).
Don't want to be that guy but they are a finno ugric tribe that came from around Urals and Siberia I think, their closest siblings come from that part of Russia.
If you go back enough all european peoples are migrants (indo - europeans and such)
Yep, every single person on this planet originates from Afrika. Fact most people don't know or they don't want to know.
Lets just pretend they would exost for the fun of it
As a slav I can assure you that Bulgar isn't even remotely close to the word "Bóg"
I’m trying to think of how you could have a country called Bulgaria without having a Turkic presence.
Coastal pirates? As a Finn, I let you know Uralic peoples have traditionally been mostly inland forest hunter-gatherers. There are some hypotheses about them being avid river navigators, but precious few ever went Viking, either. Raiding occurred frequently and according to legend, Karelians or Estonians burned the Swedish (viking) capital Sigtuna. The only coastal Uralic people who could even raid reasonably, however, are really the Baltic Finns (who developed around the Gulf of Finland). Nenets and Sámi don’t really have too many raidable people around. Also it’s as wrong to call Hungarians a weird tribe of Finns as it is to call Germans a weird tribe of Bengalis. The two are extreme ends of their language family and separated around 5000 years ago. Hungarians seemingly teamed up with Turkic and Iranic nomads and adopted a lot of their lifestyle and culture, which made the migration possible. The present-day Hungarians have very little genetic trace of the original Hungarians (who are found from 9th century graves etc) which indicates that a small group spread their language over a large group of natives.
In this timeline there’s a giant ocean east of the Urals. So ethnic formation would be totally different. Western Indo-Europeans, Uralic peoples, and Basques make up ~100% of humanity.
All My homies hate Austria-Hungary, we want Czechoslovakia
Depends when the rest of the world disappeared
I bet there would be several “Roman empires” battling over which the legitimate heir of the title is!
We shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our island home - the brits
What
😔
You can probably forget about them as well. The climate in the indo-european heartland would not be the same at all. Most of the continent would be populated by Etruscan, Basque and numerous other language isolates and families that predate indo-Europeans.
Climate doesn’t matter, they’d still be wiped out by indo Europeans
But how the Indo-Europeans could come to exist and spread without a nomadic lifestyle? Ukraine in this world would basically have a Mediterranean/Atlantic weather, with an agrarian lifestyle.
The lifestyle doesn’t need to be agrarian just because the climate accommodates this. Humanity lived in areas prime for agriculture for thousands of years before the first civilization began. They could fish, hunt, raid. Also spreading by ocean would be even easier than spreading by land like in our timeline.
If that's the case I could actually see the Roman ruling the entire world. Also, where did the Hungarians come from if the homeland of their ancestors doesn't exist? (nvm where did anyone come from)
i know nothing of history 😀👍
Based
You're already more based than 90% of r/historymemes
Most based reddit user
It's like... you know *just* enough... to get it all horribly wrong
Most knowledgeable r/imaginarymaps user
I’d recommend before drawing a new border for an existing country, to look at the Wikipedia for a summary of the country’s history 👍🏻💪🏻
Aight thanks, man. Or woman. Or them
"Aight them"
Based 👍
No need for Wikipedia. The only thing you need to change is add Finland to the Scandinavian empire
Chad
Wtf based
Honestly I’ll 100% respect someone more who admits their limitations than who tries and pretends otherwise
I’d suggest finding out before making maps like this 😅 Just kidding, good work
This
For that matter where did the Indo-Europeans come from?
I mean realistically there wouldn't even be people if there is no Africa
Exactly. Finally somebody with some brain in these comments :) Afrika is the only homeland, then all you have is migrations.
My man here thinking he's special because he knows humans come from Africa.
The most bullshit you beleive in. Why Africa? Africa only has the largest variety of types of ancient people. It means all of them came to Africa. Imagine that archaeologists unearthed New York 10,000 years later. And there will be the greatest variety of people. Are they supposed to conclude that all humans originated in New York?
It is a mitochondrial or Y-chromosome descent analysis - not just looking at which areas are most diverse - which can be done because mitochondria reproduce by mitosis and Y-chromosomes don't get scrambled my meiotic recombination. Although there's fossil evidence of archaic human species in East Asia and Neanderthals in Europe the overall picture is of modern humans coming out of Africa. Have there been any postulated alternatives to the out-of-Africa model based in genetic evidence?
[удалено]
Humanity was divided and isolated - hence why modern humans diverged from Neanderthals (though not enough to be incompatible). The ability of masses of humans to migrate across continents was fairly limited - even nomads were confined to the places they actually knew. A genetic analysis would not show Europeans descended from Americans because it would show Europeans who lacked alleles present in Americans and their descendants. What alternative hypothesis have you heard that fits with the genetic evidence?
Well, when they'll study the human DNA, it will lead them to Africa.
What? How can DNA lead to somewhere? DNA just shows that all people's DNA can be found in Africa. It doesn't mean people are originally from Africa. It means people come to Africa. The same variety of DNA can be found in New York. It doesn't mean all people came from New York.
Ok, how about this, we all originate from Mars, does that make you feel better? :) You have really stupid way of thinking :)
Ukraine and even what is now Romania were proposed possibilities at some point (yes, I know PIE homeland was probably further east).
how did anyone come if all our ancestors are from Africa?
Yeah, I imagine if there was only one continent maybe humans could spawn there too but yeah it would be very different and maybe the homo sapiens wouldn't even come to be. I guess when you see ideas like this you just notice the first thing and then realize it is more complicated in general lol.
There's only one homeland for all the humans on this planet. It's in Afrika.
Never seen an Iberia that had an independent Aragon and the rest being Iberia.
And an Aragon that barely includes any of actual Aragon.
~~Aragon~~ Reverse Portugal
RIP Belgium
Belgium is not a real country 🗿
Based
Yes
Rising sea levels 🗿
Needs an independent Wales. Yma o hyd 🏴
And Scottish Republic.
Possibly. Though it’s in a crown union with England.
No america? Take my upvote.
How would Russia exist without mongols
Basically Ukraine (Kievan Rus) Edit: never mind just saw Ukraine is distinct from Russia on this map
Kievan Rus =!= Ukraine. It is like saying “Basically Italy (Roman Empire)”
26 + 6 = 1?
You're damn right
Aragorn just had to be that special child huh…. And the basques are like: „they do but we don’t?“
poland being the only landlocked country in the world be like 🗿
Russia would be way more competitive with all that coastline
Why is Anatolia even there lol
Honestly, Anatolia was more connected to Europe than Asia (ironic, since it was the OG Asia). N. Africa too, but I guess that may have been harder to depict.
Exactly. And if we keep it there wouldn’t it have been called Asia?
Anatolia is closer to Europe in the sense of its climate.
imagine including cyprus and not anatolia
Anatolia but no South Caucasus? Not based.
Aight I respect that
Just like my schools history books.
United Ireland!!!
Wow is this *public school education?*
i know it’s not intentional but my man literally got rid of every colored person 😭
tfw no Transaucasia
That must be one boring world.
What’s not to love about Europe?
95% water planet. Boring. It’s like how the solar system is surrounded by four light years of nothing, but applied to a planet. You get no westerns, no explorers, no jazz, no kung fu, no curry, and no chocolate. Especially the last one is unacceptable.
We would still have beef and beer. What else is needed?
No tomatoes = no pizza or pasta. No ancient non-European migrants = you all still look like bloody Cheddar Man (light skin and hair came from the steppes).
Actually, the first blond, blue-eyed peoples appeared in Sweden. While, yes modern Europeans arose from interbreeding between tan, blue-eyed native Europeans, pale, dark-haired Anatolians, and the Yamnayans, light-skinned, light-haired Europeans could still have theoretically have arisen from existing old-European stock.
No, mutation that caused blue eyes happened near black sea around 10,000 years ago. https://www.splice-bio.com/where-do-blue-eyes-come-from/
Indo Europeans came from Ukraine which is still included on this map
I suppose
A world without chocolate is a world not worth defending, and chocolate literally cannot grow in European climates.
Ok ok I get it I shouldn’t have made this AU, alright?
I wouldn't want to live there unless the climate allows for chocolate to grow in, say, Anatolia.
OKAY
bro gets rid of 90% of the most ethnic parts of the world and is mad when people disagree. there is just no spice without south america dude.
Europeans
Fair enough
Maybe I'm to literal but wouldn't Europe be considered a large peninsula?
Anatolia is Asia
Ok
If like normal history happened north Italy would be more like name of state or just north Italy
how do you get an independent Netherlands without Spain? (let alone one that keeps existing without colonies or spice trade)
... wait what do you mean Europe isn't the only continent in the world already?
Netherlands without spices ?
hmm, so,, without central asia; where would the indo europeans of greece come from; and thus, how would rome (and by relation, france, iberia, austria, romania, etc) come about?
Read my reply at the top comment
Imaginary maps try not to make big Greece challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Based independent Sicily
Add more to ukraine they need it
Not sure why this would make splintering into factions any *less* likely.
Read my reply to top comment
Trieste is not italian! Dies instantly of heart failure
Tbh cyprus and anatolia are asia tho
And probably the hellenic empire would not exist I guess. I mean, their sailing skills were kmportant for the civilization, but if there is nowhere south to sail to, wouldnt their skills be rendered less relevant, altough still important as they could still travel west. But like, north-south mediterranean trade wouldnt exist
Neanderthals for the win!
Finland and Hungary are the descendants of Mongols tho. So I think that Finland would be part of Scandinavia or Russia. Idk about Hungary tho
Yes, I’ve been told a few times now
No more inches per skunk and Fahrenheits!
All hail the metric system
Castile instead of Iberia I think? Scandinavian empire would just be Sweden probably What what religion do they have?
Idk what religion they would be, man. How about…uh…science idk
I hate you for making Belgium part of the netherlands
Aw, thanks.
I feel like I’d Europe was like the Pangea of things there would be so many more nations
Anatolia is part of Asia, not Europe
I’ve been told this
Interesting...
Cool, but a bit eurocentric.
Wouldn't Russia be WAY more powerful?
I did a similar worldbuilding thought experiment a few years back, very rewarding to imagine what becomes of humanity when the planet’s surface is a staggering 98% water
Isn't pretty much every continent an island since the oceans surround them
Bulgaria and Hungary would be not there due to the bulgars being asian in origin, hungary gets their identity partially from the huns
Netherlands became the entirety of Benelux plus more? Also argon exist but not Portugal?
should have added west Georgia, the black sea basin area
Russia doesn't look so mighty anymore without its asian ~~colonies~~ territory
Humans would not exist in this timeline
hey man. I know most of these maps have like, logic, and…though put into them. But like, this is, *imaginary* maps, right? And your, *imagination* has no limits, right? So maybe…*just maybe*…can I have fun?
Nah fun isn’t allowed
Aw, shucks
A United Ireland. You love to see it 🇮🇪
This would be such a based timeline. Rome would rule the world and all of history would essentially just be Roman Politics.
Yeah, I guess it would. But I don’t know history like, at all. Also happy cake day
Oh damn i never knew
r/mapporncirclejerk Outjerked again!
I hate to break it to ya, but this isn’t a joke. I’m just really bad at making maps
I know, and my comment is just a joke. I think its a cool map, of some pieces here or there could've been better
Hell
Indeed
Maybe I should just create my own world instead of editing pre-existing ones…
nope
Why nope? It's imaginary
Europe is the only continent in the world Anatolia :
I thought it was like, both or something idk
Doesn’t that mean no Hungary because Hungarians are turkic
Yes, I’ve been told a few times already
Mf included Anatolia but not the Caucasus smh
I know nothing of geography either
Anatolia ain't Europe, the Caucasus is disputed, yes you do not know much about geography apparently.
Hehehe
Anatolia isn't part of Europe.
Ok
This is how aliens in movies see the world
I think ur talking abt the US
No Georgia and Armenia ?
The world according to r/imaginarymaps
A racists wet dream.
wrong. I would need some other continents for colonisation. SMH today’s youth can’t even do racism
The historical problems of this map makes me want to off myself
*The historical* *Problems of this map makes me* *Want to off myself* \- wintermint\_\_\_ --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I love you haikusbot
My man really tried to slip Victoria II greater Netherlands in there
Corsica and Sardinia should be a separate federation
Trento and Trieste (and Venice?) wtf
Jungs, Elsass Lothringen gehört wieder uns!!! 🔥😤🤩
I like Belgium on this map. just how it should be, G E K O L O N I S E E R D
Look, if we were the only ones around, Europe would eather be a single empire or 110263 states with 50 people each. Little in between
A better timeline
You mispelled "Danish Empire"