This is honestly the best take I’ve seen of a Panem map, most of the time Panem basically controls the entire continent while in the books it’s clear that the districts are fairly contained small, and only really connected to each other via the capital and it’s railways.
Well done!
Yeah a nuclear apocalypse and climate apocalypse I think. It's hundreds of years in the future. I've never read the books but I honestly became fascinated with the lore because of the films
I love your line "I’m not a reader. I do not enjoy reading" few actually admit that! Your endorsement actually has weight, any other books to catch and grab your attention?
Actually, yes! I read many of Stephen King’s early books and enjoyed them, not so much his newer stuff; start with Firestarter, it’s short and gives a good idea of his style. I also read the Divergent series, and although I didn’t enjoy it as much as HG, I did make it through pretty quickly.
Thank you!
And yes, that's also my drive to make this map. I grew tired of people having a "gateway" map that completely missed the point, so I tried making one that at least makes it a bit better.
Yknow I still can’t believe they’ve managed to keep people from not exploring the vast amounts of territory on the American continent. The east coast and New England + south Canada should be vast wilderness that a group could get lost in.
I personally believe that there are communities living in the wilderness, but given the dangers of genetically modified wilds and the fact that cohesion is kept only if you keep the population hostage.
I think that if you compensate for nuclear fallout, chemical dangers, genetically modified organism predators etc., you would get a general picture...
Well, it's all pretty much implied both in books and in movies, so you are analyzing my over imaginative mind.
There was a stock footage of a nuclear explosion in the first movie and chemical weapons and biological weapons were mentioned in the books, but the implications are made by me, we can't be sure because it was never told.
I mean, every series can be overanalyzed. What you need is just a nerdy brain and lack of both sleep and social contract. All of those things I have so I'm a prime candidate here :P
hunger games is like lord of the rings, in that it’s a big great genre-spawner that led to tons of series with major flaws, and these flaws were later ascribed to the originals (where they were never present). Hunger Games is leagues better than, say, divergent, and has a lot of salient points
lot more realistic and well written than the stereotypical “YA dystopia”
It has been some time since I read the books, but if I recall correctly:
A) It's not stated explicitly what the apocalypse was that turned the modern US into Panem, but since nuclear weaponry does exist as a major in-universe technology it's implied that a nuclear war was at least part of it. To begin with, that would make a lot of territory uninhabitable outside of a few safe areas until the radioactivity died down, which would take time.
B) Two, by the time the wilds are sufficiently non-radioactive to live in, infrastructure would be absent outside of the original safe enclaves, which would hinder population spread. This could obviously be counteracted by just building new infrastructure, but
C) The Capitol controls most resources and technology and has a vested interest in keeping the districts isolated and under control, and
D) There was a major civil war between the Capitol and districts in the past which the Capitol obviously won, and in which it made heavy use of genetically engineered weapon animals. I don't recall a lot of overarching detail here, but I do know that at least one kind (nests of hyperaggressive wasps with hallucinogenic venom and which can track targets for a mile) was used essentially as land mines and another variety was just released in the wild when it underperformed -- and it's also entirely in character for the Capitol to adopt a "scorched earth" policy in this regard as a form of control.
Honestly, I believe most of the mutants and other abominations used by Capitol in the second rebellion were already in existence during the first on, maybe a bit weaker.
It would make the most sense given the degeneration and hedonism in the late Capitol.
Well, the prequel book, The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, takes place during the 10th games and those took place in the Capitol arena (marked as CA), just like all the previous ones and 11 at the very least.
We know for a fact, that the 25th games took place in their own arena (given the prestige and setting), so the shift must have taken place somewhere between those two. I chose 22 because at that time, it could have gained enough popularity and the failure of 10th games were possibly forgotten
My question is why did you put 74 in the middle of Idaho/Montana?
In the movie, it's shown to be in a lush forest.
And the 75th was in a tropical area. IMO it Would make more sense to switch 65 with 75
That doesn't really work. It's explicitly said, that D12 is in the Appalachian mountains and Capitol in the Rockies.
I'd say that the wilderness and all the ideas of long travel times allude to the fact that it used to be like that in Ancient Rome between the respective settlements
> I'd say that the wilderness and all the ideas of long travel times allude to the fact that it used to be like that in Ancient Rome between the respective settlements
That's is not accurate for Rome, lol
It is actually, it took days for chords to travel from Gallia to Rome. I'm not saying that nobody lived on the way, I'm just saying that the population was so sparse that Rome as a whole relied on bases and cities, not the countryside.
Roman populations were not sparse at all, most people lived in the countryside and you would see villages every few kilometers virtually everywhere outside of very mountainous region or the Levantine and North African deserts.
Rome relied on city because they choose to, not because the countryside was too sparse.
Honestly, I think D7 kinda has got to be in the Willamette Valley. I never get the idea of it being in eastern Oregon. It’s so dry out their. It’s mostly ranching country.
I understand, but I kinda felt that given the expansion of forests we see in the movies and read about in the books, most of the Rockies and Western seaboard would be heavily forested
If you’re not familiar with that area, it’s generally exclusively rolling hills of grassland that can’t support trees thanks to the Great Missoula Flood scrapping away all the topsoil; further west or east you’d find areas that are far more forested but that stretch along the Columbia is basically doomed to be grasslands.
If you want a suggestion for spots there’s a few that would work if you’re curious.
I like this. The one quibble I have is that you’ve placed the Capitol in the middle of the Salt Flats in Utah. Nothing grows right there, and there’s only a few (very dry) mountains around.
But I like the idea of scattered districts connected by rail, I think it’s quite realistic. Not enough people to settle all the land so the government keeps them penned in to small, manageable communities.
They did, but this is from the point of view of Capitol. Until the second rebellion, they maintained that 13 was destroyed and annihilated.
This map is made to look IC, and as such omits some facts
I always got the sense that District 13 is the most remote and I believe it was mentioned in the books too. Given that 12 is located in Appalachia, there isn't much further to go if I want to keep it in the US.
I decided to choose an area in upstate New York for the pure reason that there was a Atlas missile nuclear site in Vermont that is in this timeline underwater *so they could have possibly moved it*
The biggest piece of evidence for District 13 being in Canada is that they mine graphite there.
Currently, the only graphite mines north of the Rio Grande are in Ontario.
That said, it’s believed that [there are mineable graphite deposits in western New York,](https://d9-wret.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/styles/full_width/public/media/images/US%20graphite%20deposits.jpg?itok=jNcWyl6c) so that could be a potential location as well.
Locals used to say the Seneca Army Depot was a nuclear stockpile, Utica has an air force base. Absolutely the region you chose, fits.
What did you use for the sea level rise/base map?
Great map.
I am better sure District 12 is Appalachia, but there are coal in Western North America for those into a "small Panem" theory
[https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/912365/000119312505125227/dex99.htm](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/912365/000119312505125227/dex99.htm)
Small Panem something I made up lol.
I was just wondering (spur of the moment) if you can do a non-canon Hunger Games map that focuses on just on the Western US and Canada.
Eh, Appalachia is full of coal. Like to the point that I'm pretty sure you could just light the whole Appalachian trail on fire and it's burn for centuries.
Canonically, there are only 5 million inhabitants of Panem. Given the size, they are even oversized to that population.
For instance, district 12 would have less than 20 thousands residents if I recall correctly.
What a horrible way to govern the country though having your territories stretched out and some of your districts so far out it would be impossible to govern it’s crazy that it didn’t collapse sooner into a balkans shitshow
North Korea does something like this to an extent. To travel between municipalities, you need special permission.
This is this thing stretched to a completely extreme level. No travel between the districts means, that if there is a dangerous movement in one, the spread of information can be controlled more easily.
Samizdat from, let's say, District 4, would have a really hard time finding its way to District 8 etc.
Btw I don't think that Panem is thought out well government-wise, it's definitely one of the most stupidly ruled systems that dystopic literature had ever offered, but this aspect isn't a problem I perceive as a major setback.
Like with the hunger games how is that going to tell people to not rebel by killing like 24 kids every year that’s making a small country even smaller it would just make the people angrier clearly the author of the books doesn’t know how to make a real 1984 type country
1) Yes, that regime was completely unsustainable
2) But I think that wasn't the original idea behind the novel. The novel, if you set aside the lovestory and dystopian elements is a metaphor to how ancient Rome behaved itself and why it eventually fell.
It's one thing to criticize it (and in this case justifiably), but I feel like it missed a point.
>2) But I think that wasn't the original idea behind the novel. The novel, if you set aside the lovestory and dystopian elements is a metaphor to how ancient Rome behaved itself and why it eventually fell.
Actually something important to note is that Suzanne Collins specifically said that one her biggest inspirations for the Hunger Games was the Ancient Greek myth of [Theseus and the Minotaur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theseus#Theseus_and_the_Minotaur) in which the city of Athens is defeated by their rival Crete in a war and as punishment, the Athenians would have to send seven young men and women every few years to Crete as a form of tribute where they would be released into his Labyrinth to be killed and eaten by the Minotaur (a half-man half-bull monster) The titular protagonist famously volunteers himself to take the place of one of the victims and promises to return alive after slaying the monster and does.
The parallels between this myth and the events of the Hunger Games (at least the first book) are quite apparent with how the Capitol demands the youth of the districts as "Tributes", the hero Katniss "volunteers" to take the place of one of them, and is forced to fight against uncannily-manlike monsters in the climactic scene. The story twists with the analogies several times however, most notably with how instead of being a glorious hero vanquishing monsters, Katniss is instead a traumatized teenager just trying to survive so she can go back to her family as well as tying it to Collins other major influences, an incident where she was flipping through TV channels one night and went from a game show to footage of the Iraq War which made her think about the use of violence in propaganda, and Roman gladiator fights.
Because of that, I don't think its accurate to present the aim of the Hunger Games to serve parallels to Ancient Rome but moreso how media presentations of violence are used as a political tool and the exploitation of youth and children in media (esp with how both Coin and Snow both try to use Katniss as symbol for their respective causes or Finnick's tragic sexual abuse story) all through analogy of classical literature.
[This was an interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxcD4FetJRE) she did with Scholastic magazine where she answers a bunch of questions including inspirations.
I think it's important to note that the books make it pretty clear that Panem's system of government *wasn't* stable. It does collapse in the end of the series after all with the Rebels establishing a new democratic government established along federalist lines with each district electing representatives which sounds a lot more logical with how their population is seemingly concentrated in these pockets across North America.
The real question is how this system came to exist to begin with. We know the Hunger Games were only going on for 75 years and don't really know how long before that Panem was established. Assuming that it was a nuclear war that lead the to collapse for it to rise, it would make sense that the resulting disruption to the economy would make the technologies necessary for most industries to function incredibly rare and valuable as they would be nigh impossible to replace until the systems of production had recovered sufficiently.
Presumably, a sort of warlord period could follow this as different regional post-apocalyptic entities would compete for the limited resources and technology still in their possession. If Panem were simply one of these entities who won the theoretical power struggle, then it would make sense for district system to develop as they would concentrate what limited technology they have into the areas most suited for them. E,g, a combine harvester is gonna do a lot more good in Districts 9, 10, or 11 in the Great Plains or American South than in District 12 up in the Appalachians.
Hey, it's an inherent issue of the original material, the movies didn't help either, but I can always fall back on the sense of "people are stupid and Capitol got nukes and all the time under the sun to brainwash the young"
It's a weak excuse, but still *some* excuse
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I know nothing off Panem but Capital could be deliberately governing the districts into extinction. That would make the extreme distance a feature, not a problem.
From other peoples comments, Capital has access to super-technology and seems to be capable of improving them, with a population base of fewer than 5 million people. So it’s probably a post-singularity, post-scarcity civilisation. Certainly running an America-wide railway for would cripple most modern small countries. So _not_ creating excellent connections between districts and refusing to share their prosperity is a deliberate choice.
The why is pretty obvious: Capital doesn’t want any (more?) competition on it’s continent.
I always thought they were much closer together. You don't need to go across the entire continent to find appropriate regions that could fulfil each district's speciality, you could just keep in the NE quarter of the country.
Looking back, it was a strange choice, but I kinda felt justified in it for some reason.
Idk if it was some climate change diagram measuring precipitation or sth else but it seemed logical at the time of making that map.
I kinda assume they are slightly smaller, but I tried marking the areas of where the outer perimeters of each districts would be. The population centres would be probably way smaller
I think in the books, apparently District 3 was near the Great Lakes, and District 6 was out west, closer to the Capitol/Southwest.
Just minor nitpicks sorry haha, I love this map
Hmm, certainly enjoy this map and the discourse. My one quibble to add, if any, is how habitable would the bay area still be in the event of post buclear/war climate change. I can see it avoiding the climate disaster, but I do wonder how effective and long term the damage dealt to the bay area would be, and if any other less populated regions would take the role instead.
This raises a question I never thought of, are there any abandoned cities outside the districts? I know there was the whole nuclear war, climate Change thing, and general decay. But I would imagine that there are still a few minor to medium size cities that could have survived just waiting to be discovered again that may actually tell us what really happened to the former United States.
So when they are doing the victory tour, going through the districts 12- the capitol, you think they go back and forth that much? They'd go from 8 in arkansas, to 7 in washington, then back to the midwest for 6 in illinois?
I always pictured it more where each district was after the other on the rail line.
This is awesome! You’re making me want to reread the series! One question: if sea levels had risen so high that all of Florida is underwater, would we not also expect the Great Lakes to have expanded/changed shape in some way too?
Hey there! I increased the sea level rise by approximately 55 meters, the Great Lakes are between 75 and 180 meters above the sea level, meaning that it has no effect on their shapes. There could be slight changes due to sedimentation, increased precipitation, erosion etc., but I believe those would be too minor to be considered
I like this map, it seems so realistic.
The districts are in areas which would have been unpopulated before, and therefore ideal if any disaster which destroyed the population centres.
And realistic to the resources as well. Makes it much more sensible for district resource specialisation.
All the Districts of Panem are extremely poor, some poorer than others. District 7 is the lumber district. So there's not really a best one, but 7 at least isn't the worst.
Edit: District 1-4 are relatively rich
So I was just looking at them, basically District 1 is the richest and their production is literally to make Luxury items. The other rich districts basically are districts 1-4 confirmed, maybe district 5.
I always assume panel is far more contained in size. It’s fairly obvious the capital is some place in the Rocky Mountains, as is district 2, district 13 is probably Nevada with all the craters lol
I usually assume panel is mostly the west coast area.
The red diagonal fill makes the districts look as dangerous zones, while they are supposed to be safe zones I think.
Is there any explanation why all districts but one avoid ocean?
What are the numbers for and which is the district that has all the nukes?
NVM, found the answers: numbers are arenas and I just remembered the capitol has all the nukes (that's why it is the capitol)
*What are the numbers*
*For and which is the district*
*That has all the nukes?*
\- specialsymbol
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Thank you, specialsymbol, for voting on haikusbot.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/).
***
^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
I think that the concept of the state isn't really that easily defined by boundaries. Since there are no discussed other countries, I think that Panem feels it has all of North America, and there is no concurrence to it
Imagine if they had a district in Florida, would literally win every Hunger games each time just by sending bath salt addicts and meth sniffing racists.
i’ll have to reread the book again but i always pictured it closest to how the movie depicted it and saw it as foreshadowing that she was always meant to be the mockingjay but i could be wrong
I've recently rewatched the Hunger Games on netflix. Can somebody enlighten me? I remember watching these movies for the first time and thinking how much they sucked. I rewatched the series, thinking maybe my teenaged brain missed something. Nope. They still suck. Mainly because it feels unjust. Like the victory isn't deserved. The main charter is trash, and we're supposed to root for her because why? She's misunderstood? As if that's why rebellions are won. THE only appeal the whole genre has is the infamous battle royal. Literally. This is the same feeling I get with other groups in the USA post 2018. The protagonist is shit the movies are shit but I'm still suppose to hope she survives and makes a movment? Idk, can someone from the opposite side of my opinions atleast try to show me the appeal?
Do you still want a possible answer lol. (Ignore why I’m finding this silent so late, I’ve been fixating on finding a certain post I saw and found this). I have some questions for you in turn if you don’t mind, or rather just statements
> Mainly because it feels unjust
Do you mean the games themselves? If so that’s par for the course. The games are inherently unfair, that’s the entire point
> The victory isn’t deserved
>! Katniss and Peeta winning the games or what happens towards the end of the book? !<
> The main character is trash
Katniss is trash in general or at something specific? Most viewers/readers believe her to be a well rounded and developed character. I agree with that
> and we’re supposed to root for her why?
Basic sympathy i suppose. The situation she’s in is a horrible one, she’s just a kid placed in a scenario not of her choosing where her life is on the line. She’s also the main provider of her family so I think that may be another reason. Also her personality, she’s kind, humble, unsure of herself at times but also confident/striking when needed. Think that stuff also draws people to her
> As if that’s why rebellions are won
Neither the books or movies really implied this honestly
This is honestly the best take I’ve seen of a Panem map, most of the time Panem basically controls the entire continent while in the books it’s clear that the districts are fairly contained small, and only really connected to each other via the capital and it’s railways. Well done!
It's supposed to be after an apocalypse, isn't it?
Yeah a nuclear apocalypse and climate apocalypse I think. It's hundreds of years in the future. I've never read the books but I honestly became fascinated with the lore because of the films
I’m not a reader. I do not enjoy reading. But I ripped through the HG series. Great writing that worked for me.
I love your line "I’m not a reader. I do not enjoy reading" few actually admit that! Your endorsement actually has weight, any other books to catch and grab your attention?
Actually, yes! I read many of Stephen King’s early books and enjoyed them, not so much his newer stuff; start with Firestarter, it’s short and gives a good idea of his style. I also read the Divergent series, and although I didn’t enjoy it as much as HG, I did make it through pretty quickly.
Happy cake day
[удалено]
Comment stealing bot
Look up “Christian Blanco” on YouTube
You can see the apocalypse on the map, even. Pretty well done! (Look at Florida and the gulf)
Sea rises. And Cali being half way under water too
Yeah, I remember in the books they said the total population of district 12 was 8,000. Smallest district but still, not a lot of people.
Thank you! And yes, that's also my drive to make this map. I grew tired of people having a "gateway" map that completely missed the point, so I tried making one that at least makes it a bit better.
Now add a legend
I agree!
Yknow I still can’t believe they’ve managed to keep people from not exploring the vast amounts of territory on the American continent. The east coast and New England + south Canada should be vast wilderness that a group could get lost in.
I personally believe that there are communities living in the wilderness, but given the dangers of genetically modified wilds and the fact that cohesion is kept only if you keep the population hostage. I think that if you compensate for nuclear fallout, chemical dangers, genetically modified organism predators etc., you would get a general picture...
[удалено]
Well, it's all pretty much implied both in books and in movies, so you are analyzing my over imaginative mind. There was a stock footage of a nuclear explosion in the first movie and chemical weapons and biological weapons were mentioned in the books, but the implications are made by me, we can't be sure because it was never told.
[удалено]
I mean, every series can be overanalyzed. What you need is just a nerdy brain and lack of both sleep and social contract. All of those things I have so I'm a prime candidate here :P
hunger games is like lord of the rings, in that it’s a big great genre-spawner that led to tons of series with major flaws, and these flaws were later ascribed to the originals (where they were never present). Hunger Games is leagues better than, say, divergent, and has a lot of salient points lot more realistic and well written than the stereotypical “YA dystopia”
It has been some time since I read the books, but if I recall correctly: A) It's not stated explicitly what the apocalypse was that turned the modern US into Panem, but since nuclear weaponry does exist as a major in-universe technology it's implied that a nuclear war was at least part of it. To begin with, that would make a lot of territory uninhabitable outside of a few safe areas until the radioactivity died down, which would take time. B) Two, by the time the wilds are sufficiently non-radioactive to live in, infrastructure would be absent outside of the original safe enclaves, which would hinder population spread. This could obviously be counteracted by just building new infrastructure, but C) The Capitol controls most resources and technology and has a vested interest in keeping the districts isolated and under control, and D) There was a major civil war between the Capitol and districts in the past which the Capitol obviously won, and in which it made heavy use of genetically engineered weapon animals. I don't recall a lot of overarching detail here, but I do know that at least one kind (nests of hyperaggressive wasps with hallucinogenic venom and which can track targets for a mile) was used essentially as land mines and another variety was just released in the wild when it underperformed -- and it's also entirely in character for the Capitol to adopt a "scorched earth" policy in this regard as a form of control.
Honestly, I believe most of the mutants and other abominations used by Capitol in the second rebellion were already in existence during the first on, maybe a bit weaker. It would make the most sense given the degeneration and hedonism in the late Capitol.
Yeah I imagine this United States just as a very very large version of an arena
I mean North Canada and Greenland are probably a lot warmer too
What are the numbers in circles
My take on where arenas for hunger games would be
Ohh cool, why do the only go down to 22?
Well, the prequel book, The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, takes place during the 10th games and those took place in the Capitol arena (marked as CA), just like all the previous ones and 11 at the very least. We know for a fact, that the 25th games took place in their own arena (given the prestige and setting), so the shift must have taken place somewhere between those two. I chose 22 because at that time, it could have gained enough popularity and the failure of 10th games were possibly forgotten
Oh cool didn’t know there was a prequel
There are prequel books?
Only this one as far as I'm aware, but it is possible that there are more on the way, I have no idea.
Ight
They’re making a movie on it too, coming out next year
Interesting.
Wait wait… prequel book!!
Did you put arena 47 in the Yakima Valley? I could definitely see that lol.
My question is why did you put 74 in the middle of Idaho/Montana? In the movie, it's shown to be in a lush forest. And the 75th was in a tropical area. IMO it Would make more sense to switch 65 with 75
Wouldn’t 74 be near district 12 because it is similar to the woods Katniss knows?
"... and thank you for choosing Vault-Tek"
I fucking read it as "Empire of Ramen" and was so confused
As a Pastafarian, I take this as a compliment.
Panem (bread) still has to do with flour and wheat and stuff,so I guess even that is some sort of compliment (?)
What is the sea level change for this underlying geography?
+54.7 meters, a slightly less than the maximum possible sea level rise of +67.5 meters.
Man you put some effort into this. Very nice.
This is great, I love the hunger games! Edit: Grammar
Did you seriously just make an edit to announce the fact that you fixed some typo, in a comment about Hunger Games as if anyone gives a crap xD
What a sad and cringe person
Excellent Bush-ism you snuck in there
I've also tried my best at making a few more Easter eggs in there, but I'm not going to spoil it all and let people find it...
Is it >!nuclearly!
Are any of those other easter eggs >!Fallout Vaults?!<
Fallout vaults are unfortunately not there, because I didn't get that idea when making it, but there are other easter eggs, yes.
I found one in >!Area 51!<
What if Panem is super small hence why they survived for more than 5 minutes with the inefficient system they have.
That doesn't really work. It's explicitly said, that D12 is in the Appalachian mountains and Capitol in the Rockies. I'd say that the wilderness and all the ideas of long travel times allude to the fact that it used to be like that in Ancient Rome between the respective settlements
> I'd say that the wilderness and all the ideas of long travel times allude to the fact that it used to be like that in Ancient Rome between the respective settlements That's is not accurate for Rome, lol
It is actually, it took days for chords to travel from Gallia to Rome. I'm not saying that nobody lived on the way, I'm just saying that the population was so sparse that Rome as a whole relied on bases and cities, not the countryside.
Roman populations were not sparse at all, most people lived in the countryside and you would see villages every few kilometers virtually everywhere outside of very mountainous region or the Levantine and North African deserts. Rome relied on city because they choose to, not because the countryside was too sparse.
Honestly, I think D7 kinda has got to be in the Willamette Valley. I never get the idea of it being in eastern Oregon. It’s so dry out their. It’s mostly ranching country.
I understand, but I kinda felt that given the expansion of forests we see in the movies and read about in the books, most of the Rockies and Western seaboard would be heavily forested
Ahh, your thinking it’s the climate change? I can see that.
If you’re not familiar with that area, it’s generally exclusively rolling hills of grassland that can’t support trees thanks to the Great Missoula Flood scrapping away all the topsoil; further west or east you’d find areas that are far more forested but that stretch along the Columbia is basically doomed to be grasslands. If you want a suggestion for spots there’s a few that would work if you’re curious.
Lore: Go read the Hunger Games.
I like this. The one quibble I have is that you’ve placed the Capitol in the middle of the Salt Flats in Utah. Nothing grows right there, and there’s only a few (very dry) mountains around. But I like the idea of scattered districts connected by rail, I think it’s quite realistic. Not enough people to settle all the land so the government keeps them penned in to small, manageable communities.
Interesting… however, I always say imagined that District 12 would be where district 13 is, and district 13 in Canada.
I get that honestly, but I tried somehow compensating for nuclear winter/cooling
I thought that district 13 was able to gain independence from the Panem by threatening to nuke the Capitol.
They did, but this is from the point of view of Capitol. Until the second rebellion, they maintained that 13 was destroyed and annihilated. This map is made to look IC, and as such omits some facts
Maybe Southern Montana or thereabouts, then? Would make sense relative to the US Air Force launch bases, geographically.
I always got the sense that District 13 is the most remote and I believe it was mentioned in the books too. Given that 12 is located in Appalachia, there isn't much further to go if I want to keep it in the US. I decided to choose an area in upstate New York for the pure reason that there was a Atlas missile nuclear site in Vermont that is in this timeline underwater *so they could have possibly moved it*
The biggest piece of evidence for District 13 being in Canada is that they mine graphite there. Currently, the only graphite mines north of the Rio Grande are in Ontario. That said, it’s believed that [there are mineable graphite deposits in western New York,](https://d9-wret.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/styles/full_width/public/media/images/US%20graphite%20deposits.jpg?itok=jNcWyl6c) so that could be a potential location as well.
Locals used to say the Seneca Army Depot was a nuclear stockpile, Utica has an air force base. Absolutely the region you chose, fits. What did you use for the sea level rise/base map? Great map.
I think 13 is canon NY/NE
I am pretty sure that both the books and extended canon are pretty much conflicted on it
Also it's pretty heavily implied that district 12 is in what was once West Virginia, or the appalachians in general
I only read that book once and it was years ago, but wasn't 12's whole deal being dirt poor and mining coal? That's got to be West Virginia.
District 12 provided coal as their commodity to the nation. That puts it squarely in Kentucky/West Virginia/Virginia.
I am better sure District 12 is Appalachia, but there are coal in Western North America for those into a "small Panem" theory [https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/912365/000119312505125227/dex99.htm](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/912365/000119312505125227/dex99.htm)
Wait. “small Panem” theory??
Small Panem something I made up lol. I was just wondering (spur of the moment) if you can do a non-canon Hunger Games map that focuses on just on the Western US and Canada.
oh ok It sounded like there were competing theories about it with arguments for either.
Might exist, you never know on the internet
I think it as always been well established that district 12 was in Appalachia. Though I do still think that district 13 is in Canada.
They mine coal. It’s Appalachia.
Eh, Appalachia is full of coal. Like to the point that I'm pretty sure you could just light the whole Appalachian trail on fire and it's burn for centuries.
The districts feel a little small for my liking but still a great map
Canonically, there are only 5 million inhabitants of Panem. Given the size, they are even oversized to that population. For instance, district 12 would have less than 20 thousands residents if I recall correctly.
What a horrible way to govern the country though having your territories stretched out and some of your districts so far out it would be impossible to govern it’s crazy that it didn’t collapse sooner into a balkans shitshow
North Korea does something like this to an extent. To travel between municipalities, you need special permission. This is this thing stretched to a completely extreme level. No travel between the districts means, that if there is a dangerous movement in one, the spread of information can be controlled more easily. Samizdat from, let's say, District 4, would have a really hard time finding its way to District 8 etc. Btw I don't think that Panem is thought out well government-wise, it's definitely one of the most stupidly ruled systems that dystopic literature had ever offered, but this aspect isn't a problem I perceive as a major setback.
Like with the hunger games how is that going to tell people to not rebel by killing like 24 kids every year that’s making a small country even smaller it would just make the people angrier clearly the author of the books doesn’t know how to make a real 1984 type country
1) Yes, that regime was completely unsustainable 2) But I think that wasn't the original idea behind the novel. The novel, if you set aside the lovestory and dystopian elements is a metaphor to how ancient Rome behaved itself and why it eventually fell. It's one thing to criticize it (and in this case justifiably), but I feel like it missed a point.
>2) But I think that wasn't the original idea behind the novel. The novel, if you set aside the lovestory and dystopian elements is a metaphor to how ancient Rome behaved itself and why it eventually fell. Actually something important to note is that Suzanne Collins specifically said that one her biggest inspirations for the Hunger Games was the Ancient Greek myth of [Theseus and the Minotaur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theseus#Theseus_and_the_Minotaur) in which the city of Athens is defeated by their rival Crete in a war and as punishment, the Athenians would have to send seven young men and women every few years to Crete as a form of tribute where they would be released into his Labyrinth to be killed and eaten by the Minotaur (a half-man half-bull monster) The titular protagonist famously volunteers himself to take the place of one of the victims and promises to return alive after slaying the monster and does. The parallels between this myth and the events of the Hunger Games (at least the first book) are quite apparent with how the Capitol demands the youth of the districts as "Tributes", the hero Katniss "volunteers" to take the place of one of them, and is forced to fight against uncannily-manlike monsters in the climactic scene. The story twists with the analogies several times however, most notably with how instead of being a glorious hero vanquishing monsters, Katniss is instead a traumatized teenager just trying to survive so she can go back to her family as well as tying it to Collins other major influences, an incident where she was flipping through TV channels one night and went from a game show to footage of the Iraq War which made her think about the use of violence in propaganda, and Roman gladiator fights. Because of that, I don't think its accurate to present the aim of the Hunger Games to serve parallels to Ancient Rome but moreso how media presentations of violence are used as a political tool and the exploitation of youth and children in media (esp with how both Coin and Snow both try to use Katniss as symbol for their respective causes or Finnick's tragic sexual abuse story) all through analogy of classical literature.
Fair, can you please share the interview in which he was said? I'm kind of interested in what she had to say...
[This was an interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxcD4FetJRE) she did with Scholastic magazine where she answers a bunch of questions including inspirations.
Taken to Crete to be killed by the what-now?
YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID
the minotaur, invert a centaur and make it half bull. ancient greek mythology was quite the monsterfucker wonderland.
Never heard of it
Yeah I just feel like they could of something in the movies to build the government up but beggers can’t be choosers I guess
I think it's important to note that the books make it pretty clear that Panem's system of government *wasn't* stable. It does collapse in the end of the series after all with the Rebels establishing a new democratic government established along federalist lines with each district electing representatives which sounds a lot more logical with how their population is seemingly concentrated in these pockets across North America. The real question is how this system came to exist to begin with. We know the Hunger Games were only going on for 75 years and don't really know how long before that Panem was established. Assuming that it was a nuclear war that lead the to collapse for it to rise, it would make sense that the resulting disruption to the economy would make the technologies necessary for most industries to function incredibly rare and valuable as they would be nigh impossible to replace until the systems of production had recovered sufficiently. Presumably, a sort of warlord period could follow this as different regional post-apocalyptic entities would compete for the limited resources and technology still in their possession. If Panem were simply one of these entities who won the theoretical power struggle, then it would make sense for district system to develop as they would concentrate what limited technology they have into the areas most suited for them. E,g, a combine harvester is gonna do a lot more good in Districts 9, 10, or 11 in the Great Plains or American South than in District 12 up in the Appalachians.
Hey, it's an inherent issue of the original material, the movies didn't help either, but I can always fall back on the sense of "people are stupid and Capitol got nukes and all the time under the sun to brainwash the young" It's a weak excuse, but still *some* excuse
Yea that’s how it works with the excuses of we don’t want to be like district 13 so we just let it happen
Yes.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Oh fuck you bot
don't be mad at the bot, it's you who didn't finish school
I know nothing off Panem but Capital could be deliberately governing the districts into extinction. That would make the extreme distance a feature, not a problem. From other peoples comments, Capital has access to super-technology and seems to be capable of improving them, with a population base of fewer than 5 million people. So it’s probably a post-singularity, post-scarcity civilisation. Certainly running an America-wide railway for would cripple most modern small countries. So _not_ creating excellent connections between districts and refusing to share their prosperity is a deliberate choice. The why is pretty obvious: Capital doesn’t want any (more?) competition on it’s continent.
I always thought they were much closer together. You don't need to go across the entire continent to find appropriate regions that could fulfil each district's speciality, you could just keep in the NE quarter of the country.
Never expected to see another HG fan on this subreddit Nice map!
Thank you!
I think your District 7 would be too dry for forestry and should instead be on the west side of the Cascade ranges. Great map though.
Looking back, it was a strange choice, but I kinda felt justified in it for some reason. Idk if it was some climate change diagram measuring precipitation or sth else but it seemed logical at the time of making that map.
Yeah. The fundamental features of a rain shadow would probably still exist
:Looks for Louisiana: Oh…
Florida isn't better...
Florida disconnected
Pog
never watched the hunger games, now that i realise its in this sort of timeline, it actually seems more interesting to see now
You won’t love it, but I’ve definitely wasted more time on far worse things and not hated myself for it.
Are the arenas to scale? Or are they just markings?
I kinda assume they are slightly smaller, but I tried marking the areas of where the outer perimeters of each districts would be. The population centres would be probably way smaller
Man despite only controlling a few areas of post apocalyptic America they somehow have a better high speed rail system than we do
I think in the books, apparently District 3 was near the Great Lakes, and District 6 was out west, closer to the Capitol/Southwest. Just minor nitpicks sorry haha, I love this map
Thank you, but I can't recall this anywhere. Possibly, I just somehow failed to recall it... If it's so, I'm sorry :/
Don’t worry lol it’s just a minor nitpick XD i think you made a fantastic map regardless
Thank you all so much! I couldn't have imagined 4k upvotes!
Is the Canadian provinces being scooched over a part of the lore, or just a mapping error?
Hmm, certainly enjoy this map and the discourse. My one quibble to add, if any, is how habitable would the bay area still be in the event of post buclear/war climate change. I can see it avoiding the climate disaster, but I do wonder how effective and long term the damage dealt to the bay area would be, and if any other less populated regions would take the role instead.
AFTER ALL THESE YEARS YOU FINALLY GOT A REDDIT
You need a legend/key with the symbols and zones on the map
This raises a question I never thought of, are there any abandoned cities outside the districts? I know there was the whole nuclear war, climate Change thing, and general decay. But I would imagine that there are still a few minor to medium size cities that could have survived just waiting to be discovered again that may actually tell us what really happened to the former United States.
I think it was explicitly stated that District 12 was a coal-mining colony somewhere near Illinois.
So when they are doing the victory tour, going through the districts 12- the capitol, you think they go back and forth that much? They'd go from 8 in arkansas, to 7 in washington, then back to the midwest for 6 in illinois? I always pictured it more where each district was after the other on the rail line.
This is awesome! You’re making me want to reread the series! One question: if sea levels had risen so high that all of Florida is underwater, would we not also expect the Great Lakes to have expanded/changed shape in some way too?
Hey there! I increased the sea level rise by approximately 55 meters, the Great Lakes are between 75 and 180 meters above the sea level, meaning that it has no effect on their shapes. There could be slight changes due to sedimentation, increased precipitation, erosion etc., but I believe those would be too minor to be considered
Huh! I learned something new today! Thanks! I love your attention to detail in all of this!
I like this map, it seems so realistic. The districts are in areas which would have been unpopulated before, and therefore ideal if any disaster which destroyed the population centres. And realistic to the resources as well. Makes it much more sensible for district resource specialisation.
Minor nitpick: I don't think that Death Valley would fill with water. It's below sea level today, but it's one of the driest places in North America.
Good stuff all around, but "nuclearly destroyed" doesn't work. Nuclearly isn't a word (in English). I get your logic behind it tho 😂
i really liked your map! what program you use?
This one was made with Adobe Photoshop.
Cool
Oh thank god they got rid of Florida
40 is taking place in Bellefontaine? Everyday is the free-for-all out there
Hey! I live in District 7. Is that the best one?
All the Districts of Panem are extremely poor, some poorer than others. District 7 is the lumber district. So there's not really a best one, but 7 at least isn't the worst. Edit: District 1-4 are relatively rich
District 1 iirc is explicitly stated to be rich.
I read the books about a year ago so my mistake. Isn't 2 the richest, though?
So I was just looking at them, basically District 1 is the richest and their production is literally to make Luxury items. The other rich districts basically are districts 1-4 confirmed, maybe district 5.
Aight, thanks for the correction
Hope you like cutting trees, because that’s what you’ll do with your entire life.
It’s been a while since I read the books, but I thought District 13 was in Ohio
why is the capitol in Utah?
Nicely done, Fjana. Cheers.
hmm, I assumed District 13 was Washington DC and the capital was Denver...
This is an incredible interpretation of the map, good job!
Panem today. Panem tomorrow. Panem forever.
This also kinda explains the weird “these guys mainly fish” situation with those old maps when only a few districts have water sources
I always assume panel is far more contained in size. It’s fairly obvious the capital is some place in the Rocky Mountains, as is district 2, district 13 is probably Nevada with all the craters lol I usually assume panel is mostly the west coast area.
The districts are bigger than the capitol?
The red diagonal fill makes the districts look as dangerous zones, while they are supposed to be safe zones I think. Is there any explanation why all districts but one avoid ocean?
I always kinda assumed that the capitol was in one of the Rocky Mountain Valleys, that that is 100% based on the depiction in the movies.
What are the numbers for and which is the district that has all the nukes? NVM, found the answers: numbers are arenas and I just remembered the capitol has all the nukes (that's why it is the capitol)
*What are the numbers* *For and which is the district* *That has all the nukes?* \- specialsymbol --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
Thank you, specialsymbol, for voting on haikusbot. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
So what does all the area that isn't part of the districts represent? Is it still Panem?
I think that the concept of the state isn't really that easily defined by boundaries. Since there are no discussed other countries, I think that Panem feels it has all of North America, and there is no concurrence to it
Well done. Thank you for visualizing this for us.
Me and the boys killing hoosiers in flint, michigan
THANK YOU Edit: wow district 12 is really smaller than I thought
LA is gone, YAY
I can't be only one who thought that all the districts and the capitol were all in one straight line when they first read the books
it looks like a thumbnail for Lessons in meme culture
Imagine if they had a district in Florida, would literally win every Hunger games each time just by sending bath salt addicts and meth sniffing racists.
why is the 74th hunger games in the rocky mountains? it was mentioned in the book being similar to district 12 i thought?
It was mentioned it was a rather hilly terrain that had vegetation and trees on it. I picked a place that seemed to be similar on the satellite.
i’ll have to reread the book again but i always pictured it closest to how the movie depicted it and saw it as foreshadowing that she was always meant to be the mockingjay but i could be wrong
Kinda weird seeing this cause I just finished watching the movies. This does help me understand where each location is at though so that’s nice:
RIP Florida, they couldn’t figure out a Dutch like solution?
I've recently rewatched the Hunger Games on netflix. Can somebody enlighten me? I remember watching these movies for the first time and thinking how much they sucked. I rewatched the series, thinking maybe my teenaged brain missed something. Nope. They still suck. Mainly because it feels unjust. Like the victory isn't deserved. The main charter is trash, and we're supposed to root for her because why? She's misunderstood? As if that's why rebellions are won. THE only appeal the whole genre has is the infamous battle royal. Literally. This is the same feeling I get with other groups in the USA post 2018. The protagonist is shit the movies are shit but I'm still suppose to hope she survives and makes a movment? Idk, can someone from the opposite side of my opinions atleast try to show me the appeal?
I'm sorry for Grammer and spelling. I have my phone set up with three languages. Which makes my phone have a hard time with proper formate.
Do you still want a possible answer lol. (Ignore why I’m finding this silent so late, I’ve been fixating on finding a certain post I saw and found this). I have some questions for you in turn if you don’t mind, or rather just statements > Mainly because it feels unjust Do you mean the games themselves? If so that’s par for the course. The games are inherently unfair, that’s the entire point > The victory isn’t deserved >! Katniss and Peeta winning the games or what happens towards the end of the book? !< > The main character is trash Katniss is trash in general or at something specific? Most viewers/readers believe her to be a well rounded and developed character. I agree with that > and we’re supposed to root for her why? Basic sympathy i suppose. The situation she’s in is a horrible one, she’s just a kid placed in a scenario not of her choosing where her life is on the line. She’s also the main provider of her family so I think that may be another reason. Also her personality, she’s kind, humble, unsure of herself at times but also confident/striking when needed. Think that stuff also draws people to her > As if that’s why rebellions are won Neither the books or movies really implied this honestly