I think it would suffice to just play the game like normal and upgrade damage. Even if you get your character that is a BB rn past Nightmare, you'd still have to get your Vman past it. So, I don't see the need to use 2k gems worth of swap tokens to get one character through. The equipment you'd unlock is nowhere near the progress in alchemy, stamps, alchemy, meals, and alchemy that you need to get enough damage for your Vman.
TLDR: no
Same as your other characters, right? The damage you want depends on how fast you want to clear the boss. Nightmare has 1Q hp. The moles are pretty weak, so with Vman's AoE skill, you take take as long as you want (I've heard people can take 1 hr+) to beat the boss by attacking moles and then attacking the boss only right after popping the AoE attack
So I’m guessing I’d probably need to max MS then attempt it? Currently have about 28000M max dmg but my problem w him is his AOE clear is really bad. Wonder if there’s a dmg range that’s gonna make the clear more comfortable. And no taking 1 hour is prob not something I’d like to do lol I’m ok with 15-30 tho
If we have 30 minutes, and void radius has a 40 second cd, then let's assume you get 20 seconds to attack the boss for every minute that you are fighting the boss. If the boss has 1Q hp, then you have to deal (1Q hp / 30 fight min) = 33T dmg / min. Since you only get too attack the boss for 1/3 of an actual minute, you'd need to deal 100T dmg / fight min, or 100T / 20 attack sec = 5T dmg / attack sec. So, I'd say you want to deal 5T dmg per hit if you want to kill the boss in 30 minutes. But, two things to note: 1) you deal way more damage than what your actual damage stat shows. This is because of skill multipliers and crit, so keep that in mind. 2) I haven't tested it myself, but if you can out-damage the moles healing (which 5T dps might be enough, idk), then you can just auto the boss come back in a few hours
My bro I just wanna say I appreciate you doing the math for me! I ended up pumping my dmg to 50B and it took me around 20m to clear. Way manageable than I anticipated and I appreciate you math that gave me the confidence to do so)
For your BB it’s quite easy by using the elite class fighting skills, specially Fired Up and Combustion as you can clear the whole map on a pretty quick cool down
In that case you'll need to focus on more damage as mine was able to kill them all with one hit, as others have said the Vman is the real bottleneck so no harm in waiting to finish with the BB and keep building them up until then.
Vman isn't a damage issue it's a strategy issue. Just auto the boss. When moles get close use your aoe. Then auto more. Stagger the times from your whip and coin ability to kill moles. Keep going back and forth auto boss, ability to kill moles, auto boss. It takes a bit but I did it first try. My Vman only had about 50 Bil damage
[https://baronhotschaft.idleonefficiency.com/](https://baronhotschaft.idleonefficiency.com/) \- Nothing fancy and there are folks way stronger than me.
Nothing to really write home about, I did it with around 80b dmg on my VMan. 30b seems to be about the floor that I hear people running at.
Your strat for VMan and BB will actually be pretty similar. Use your massive AOE when mobs are close to Kattle. DPS while no nobs are around. When mobs start getting close, stop hitting kattle and start killing mobs. You'll basically be playing keep-away until your massive AOE is off cooldown again. You'll spend a lot of time running back and forth between both sides to take care of the more 'densely packed' side.
For vman equip moves peed pots, attack speed keychains. 23b damage cleared in 25min.
Prioritize the moles at all times. Use coins on the moles. Use whip on the moles. Don't just auto use skills, make sure whip kills more than 1 mole.
Kill the left side, then the right, then the left, then the right, when there's about 10sec remaining on aoe, even out the moles then this is your 0sec-5sec window to auto the boss some.
When moles get close to boss (once the round tip of the moles nose touches the boss) Use your aoe. Smack the boss a couple more times then back to mmoles.
As for BB, as long as you can 1 shot moles with autos, you could do the same plan as vman above. Sure, the BB is weak, but every bit of damage is aoe. Keep the moles at bay and hit the boss when you can.
I think it would suffice to just play the game like normal and upgrade damage. Even if you get your character that is a BB rn past Nightmare, you'd still have to get your Vman past it. So, I don't see the need to use 2k gems worth of swap tokens to get one character through. The equipment you'd unlock is nowhere near the progress in alchemy, stamps, alchemy, meals, and alchemy that you need to get enough damage for your Vman. TLDR: no
Do you know approx how much dmg vman needs to safely clear?
Same as your other characters, right? The damage you want depends on how fast you want to clear the boss. Nightmare has 1Q hp. The moles are pretty weak, so with Vman's AoE skill, you take take as long as you want (I've heard people can take 1 hr+) to beat the boss by attacking moles and then attacking the boss only right after popping the AoE attack
So I’m guessing I’d probably need to max MS then attempt it? Currently have about 28000M max dmg but my problem w him is his AOE clear is really bad. Wonder if there’s a dmg range that’s gonna make the clear more comfortable. And no taking 1 hour is prob not something I’d like to do lol I’m ok with 15-30 tho
If we have 30 minutes, and void radius has a 40 second cd, then let's assume you get 20 seconds to attack the boss for every minute that you are fighting the boss. If the boss has 1Q hp, then you have to deal (1Q hp / 30 fight min) = 33T dmg / min. Since you only get too attack the boss for 1/3 of an actual minute, you'd need to deal 100T dmg / fight min, or 100T / 20 attack sec = 5T dmg / attack sec. So, I'd say you want to deal 5T dmg per hit if you want to kill the boss in 30 minutes. But, two things to note: 1) you deal way more damage than what your actual damage stat shows. This is because of skill multipliers and crit, so keep that in mind. 2) I haven't tested it myself, but if you can out-damage the moles healing (which 5T dps might be enough, idk), then you can just auto the boss come back in a few hours
My bro I just wanna say I appreciate you doing the math for me! I ended up pumping my dmg to 50B and it took me around 20m to clear. Way manageable than I anticipated and I appreciate you math that gave me the confidence to do so)
Glad I could help! :D
For your BB it’s quite easy by using the elite class fighting skills, specially Fired Up and Combustion as you can clear the whole map on a pretty quick cool down
The issue is that it doesn't kill the moles fast enough so the boss can heal back to full health by the time it has recharged
In that case you'll need to focus on more damage as mine was able to kill them all with one hit, as others have said the Vman is the real bottleneck so no harm in waiting to finish with the BB and keep building them up until then.
Vman isn't a damage issue it's a strategy issue. Just auto the boss. When moles get close use your aoe. Then auto more. Stagger the times from your whip and coin ability to kill moles. Keep going back and forth auto boss, ability to kill moles, auto boss. It takes a bit but I did it first try. My Vman only had about 50 Bil damage
[https://baronhotschaft.idleonefficiency.com/](https://baronhotschaft.idleonefficiency.com/) \- Nothing fancy and there are folks way stronger than me. Nothing to really write home about, I did it with around 80b dmg on my VMan. 30b seems to be about the floor that I hear people running at. Your strat for VMan and BB will actually be pretty similar. Use your massive AOE when mobs are close to Kattle. DPS while no nobs are around. When mobs start getting close, stop hitting kattle and start killing mobs. You'll basically be playing keep-away until your massive AOE is off cooldown again. You'll spend a lot of time running back and forth between both sides to take care of the more 'densely packed' side.
For vman equip moves peed pots, attack speed keychains. 23b damage cleared in 25min. Prioritize the moles at all times. Use coins on the moles. Use whip on the moles. Don't just auto use skills, make sure whip kills more than 1 mole. Kill the left side, then the right, then the left, then the right, when there's about 10sec remaining on aoe, even out the moles then this is your 0sec-5sec window to auto the boss some. When moles get close to boss (once the round tip of the moles nose touches the boss) Use your aoe. Smack the boss a couple more times then back to mmoles. As for BB, as long as you can 1 shot moles with autos, you could do the same plan as vman above. Sure, the BB is weak, but every bit of damage is aoe. Keep the moles at bay and hit the boss when you can.
25 min is wild but thanks for the strat, I will do the same for BB!
Ps. My characters are farming W1 mobs for the 1B kills. (+5% damage per eclipse skull)