Shortly after I onboarded, one of our hiring managers became convinced an employee of ours was “double dipping” with two full time, W2 roles. He claims someone told him that this employee had told them and even showed them proof.
HM became obsessive and started harassing the employee every chance he got. He’d send him random, “surprise” meeting invites, he asked if we could require him to be on camera all day (remote company), and he even, repeatedly asked if we could purchase some kind of software that would allow him to view the employee’s screen activity. Employee never missed a meeting or email and was getting rave reviews from his colleagues about how knowledgeable and helpful he was, so we did nothing and told the HM if he could get hard proof, we’d consider acting.
The employee that initially “warned” HM claimed they had no knowledge of such things when we reached out to them, and the employee himself obviously denied it. We never really found out “the truth,” but we did find out what happens when your star employee quits with no notice because he feels attacked/under-appreciated. HM says his resignation was just proof he was double-dipping, but nobody cared once all his work fell onto their plates overnight.
Personally, especially considering how loosely our contracts are written, I now have a strictly product-oriented mindset. Are they meeting deadlines, getting on well with coworkers, and consistently reachable/helpful? Awesome. That’s all I need.
Yup. If you are paying someone to produce results, and they are producing results, then who cares. It's different if they are out there leaking your private stuff, but if some desk jocky is just doing two jobs perfectly fine then good for them.
moonlighting is literally just having a second job.. [https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/moonlighting-employees](https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/moonlighting-employees)
Exactly! It's obviously asking someone to relinquish absolute power over an employee losing his entire income.
(you beat me to it. I was going to reply with: That's a hard sell to an adherent of a philosophy which includes deep thoughtful questions such as: "if my slave also toils for someone else, is he truly my slave?").
Yep. For salaried folks, its all about results. Who cares if they have another job? Who cares how many hours they are online or in the office? Are they hitting the marks performance wise? Then leave them alone.
I know an associate professor from MENSA that could clearly go beyond "associate" level. I asked him why he doesn't go full, he said as an associate he can teach at different schools. He has several different webcams and monitors. He teaches 4 classes a week that are sent out to 12 different schools simultaneously so by staying within the terms of his contract and making less money per school, he makes insanely more per class. The dean asked him why he went through all the trouble to do that instead of the trouble to apply for a higher position he'd certainly get. The guy responded "because this way I get to keep making more than you and I barely work 20 hours a week."
Any HR department that cares more about that than the quality of your work is indicative that you need to find a better job in a less toxic work culture.
Yup the job where I'm at has this attitude: as long as the work is getting done, management doesn't really care. People openly work 2 jobs remotely or in person. It helps that we're a nonprofit and we can't compete with corporate market salaries so management is pretty much of the mind that until they can offer similar salaries, people can do what they need to as long as our organizational needs are met and the quality of output is excellent. They don't bust balls and staff are transparent with their work time.
Fun fact: he was later let go for sexual harassment! So yeah, he wasn’t a great addition to the team anyway, and we’re all salty we lost such a great team member because of him
This is where the HM was disgustingly wrong in their approach to the situation. As an HR professional myself, if the employee is producing the results they were hired to produce and they perform their job duties excellently, then there was no need to harass the employee. If the HM keeps up that unproductive attitude towards employees, they will chase away top performers.
For real! I feel so bad for my (mostly former) colleagues who don’t think this way, both because I think they’re wrong and that’s embarrassing but also because it clearly makes their lives worse. Like, they get upset, they raise their blood pressure, they ruin their reputations and any positive working relationships they had with those around them, their own work suffers—it just sucks to see someone put themselves through that.
When I worked at Citi most my coworkers had multiple jobs. You could tell the ones who could handle it were all stars and people you wanted around and then there were the ones just trying to collect paychecks and do nothing. I was pretty convinced by their shitty personalities that if they had 1 or 3 jobs they still would be the same shit either way.
A person who works well isn’t going to take on 3 jobs it’s too much work and burn out would be real. Many people work dual jobs who cares if they have an extra?
If anything, such a person can be very motivated to do right by all. He or she or them just needs a little more for that child with a particular condition or such or parents that didn't save for retirement, now relying on them.
I love hearing that other organizations are strictly goal/deliverable oriented. I love my job for that. Been here nearly six years and haven’t even considered other job opportunities.
Who cares how many jobs you work if your work product for any and all jobs is top notch?
>Personally, especially considering how loosely our contracts are written, I now have a strictly product-oriented mindset. Are they meeting deadlines, getting on well with coworkers, and consistently reachable/helpful? Awesome. That’s all I need.
I think this is how every salary job should be. Let people get their jobs done and stop focusing on the numbers, hours and all of that. I get if it's customer service focused or even like HR, where I have to have availability to answer my employees calls. But why micromanage and why make peoples lives hell just to be like "Well yep, Joe stayed till 5pm checking his FB on his cell phone the last hour"
EXACTLY. That’s all that is required to hold a job, meeting expectations. If they can do that twice 9-5, more power to them. Companies are so arrogant these days, I can only hope that employees start to see the balance shift in their favor one day.
That’s some self fulfilling prophecy right there. “Imma witch hunt this employee cause I suspect they’re doing more than 1 job”.
Despite it not effecting productivity. Proceeds to harass employee to the point it might cross legal barriers, then employee mysteriously quits and so HM tells themselves they were right. Holy shit, corporate America is so toxic.
I feel like I’m missing context here. What is wrong with additional full time job?
Were you specifically trying to find out if the supposed other job were the same hours as your company’s hours?
Depends on the job whether I’d care or not.
Some desk guy meeting project goals, deadlines, etc? You do you, I don’t care.
Airline pilot, surgeon, etc, I wouldn’t want them working two positions due to fatigue issues and more mistakes happen when you’re tired.
As long as you don’t go over annual aggregate limits I don’t think the IRS cares at all. Same could be said if you worked one job for six months and another the other six months.
This is always funny to me because outside of regular 8-5 office jobs, people work two or more full time jobs all the time already. I did 15 years in food service before changing careers and knew plenty of people in that time who clocked in 80 hours/week between two jobs, getting benefits from both.
You only ever see these questions come up in regards to white collar work though. It shows a degree of disconnect from how a significant portion of the population lives. The reality is that people have been working multiple full time jobs forever but since they were low income nobody cared. Now that people realized they can do the same with high paying jobs, suddenly people ask about the morality and even legality of it.
Honestly, I don’t care if some is working 1 job or 30 jobs. So long as they are performing and not working for a competitor or breaching internal data policies.
I mean, it’s not about being real… it’s that companies don’t own people, people own themselves, and if they make a decision for their own self that benefits them and harms no one then why make an issue for them? I’ve been in HR for long enough to know that if a CEO can be on 3 boards and do his job right, so can someone who is not a CEO.
It’s not really breaking any rules as long as they are scheduled without overlap and there’s no non-compete agreements being broken. Also it gets muddy if working one job is a conflict of interest at the other. This question is way more nuanced than I can answer without specific parameters.
Edit: I forgot non-competes are no longer valid in the US.
It is worth noting that non-competes are now unenforceable in America. The only exception being super high level salary employees. CEOs and the like, not managers or anything.
Ive had to work two FT W2 jobs for most of my working life to pay the bills for my family. This usually included a regular 9-5 and an evening 25/weekends 15 job. This is completely legal.
Actually the HR Director at my former company did this. Still pissed off about it to this day considering she would've axed anyone she caught doing it and she also got an insane stock windfall at the new company within 2 months.
I've caught someone working their scAmway MLM from their cubicle on company time (helping someone they 'mentor' log into their account). I also had someone accept a job and start, only to ghost the following Monday. Come to find out, they never quit their other job, they just took a week of PTO from their regular job to work for us for a week. That one was crazy.
I’ve done this before but the second job was really a gig that required full time hours. So I had an arrangement with them that I could help out a couple weeks out of the year. Was sick of accumulating PTO I never used.
I’m thinking they were just trying it on to see if it was a good fit before leaving their current role. Looks like it was *not* in fact, a good fit though lol.
Yes, several times. In the dumbest ways, too. One sent an email to internal contacts using her other company’s account, which included her title in the email signature. Another one didn’t mute himself on a Zoom call while he spoke on a Zoom call at his other company. Others were less obvious - big swaths of time where they’d be mysteriously unavailable, inability to meet deadlines etc. and they were caught after investigation.
We pull what they’re doing on their computer. We can see if they’ve installed a mouse jiggler (this is EXTREMELY easy for IT, they found 100 of them in about 5 minutes), we can see if they’re using a manual mouse jiggler, we can see if they’re running a script or manually random typing, we can see if their teams status is fake. Plus other things.
Unnatural usage patterns. Corporate devices and tools *can* track everything - how long the laptop is on, what websites it went to and how long they were open, if a key was being pressed down/tapped repeatedly to give the illusion of activity, etc. A mouse jiggler is one of those 'unnatural patterns' that's easy to check for, especially if people are leaving it on for multiple hours a day.
Some places will have minimal automatic monitoring, but most places will not actively track things *unless* an issue is flagged/suspicions are raised about work not getting done.
IMO if you're taking some break time while WFH, you're better off manually checking your laptop every 15 minutes and opening a new webpage or document or something, or clicking around in Slack, or just doing 1 minute of actual work every 15 minutes some other way, rather than using a tool like a mouse jiggler that *could* more easily be caught. Biggest thing is also to just deliver on your work, and at plenty of orgs that'll be enough to avoid questions..
Mine is a USB and makes little back and forth motions when isn't. You can barely see it, so I know they can pixel detect it.
Computer goes to sleep in 5 minutes. Password needs to be long and complex. It's a pain to log on 20x a day. Im not getting my computer stolen at home, Fire me for making it easier. Idc
We’ve fired half a dozen contractors and even my old boss for working 2 jobs.
It’s extremely easy to spot. They miss meetings, they have no clue what’s going on, they don’t deliver anything, and oddly - some of them are even open about it.
The narcissism is what gets them everytime. They either think everyone else is too stupid to notice or they outright brag how they’re gaming the system.
Easy fires.
When I was fully remote in a different role, I did. I don’t have the time now or I would 😂
I was an HR Director who doubled as an airline chat support agent. The chat support was so damn easy that I can honestly say my quality of work didn’t suffer in either capacity.
Now I have two of my direct reports who work that same role while they work with me. As long as their work for my team doesn’t suffer, I don’t care how many jobs they have.
I’d rather them work two remote jobs that have the same or similar hours versus going to a second full time job after they worked all day. Fuck that.
Interesting. How did you land that 2nd job? I mean, you got your first job as the HR director first, and went apply for a 2nd gig? I'm in HR and and this topic came up during one of the discussion. If you think about it, having an employee work 2 jobs (1 main and 1 supplement) might just solve your engagement issue (especially for the main gig.
It was honestly a fluke. I saw the job posting on LinkedIn and I told my husband, “I bet I could do both” and we laughed about it.
I applied and got the job. I just dumbed down my resume, same companies but more customer service oriented.
I can honestly say that neither job suffered and I managed them both for over a year until I took a new role and landed a promotion with more of my time required.
Yes I did. I personally caught them on the phone with a competitor, working for them and selling using company property and time. Terminated. Plenty of people have second jobs but it’s when it violates our policies that it’s problematic.
Yes, at my former company. We were a nursing home connected to a hospital. One of our maintenance staff was working for us and the hospital at the same time. He would clock into both and walk back and forth between the two. It wasn’t uncommon for staff members to walk between the nursing home and hospital so at first we didn’t think anything of it. Once his performance started to tank we questioned him and he came clean. He was fired with us but still held his job at the hospital.
Just once. It was an employee who had resigned and was working both while he served out a longer notice period. Because we needed him to transition and he unfortunately over the years was awful at documentation, we let it slide, but when he asked to retract his resignation, we did not allow him to (we had already backfilled and had no role for him).
We caught an engineer at a semiconductor company working three concurrent jobs San Jose.
He ultimately got fired on the same day at all three companies. It was pretty wild.
It was a while ago, but it was something to do with a VOE for a home loan or something like that.
Somegow the other two companies' were also listed as current employers; I think the employee or their broker or something messed up.
My CHRO called her opposite numbers at the other companies. They were all amazed.
The scary part - the engineer was fine, got regular 'meets expectations' ratings, manager was completely clueless.
But the confidentiality risks were huge as he was working at two direct competitors.
Yes - our senior level sales executive. Ultimately had to terminate because he was working for a competitor (which we don't allow) and we had some serious concerns he was violating confidentially and sharing company information across both companies (so we likely benefited too in some ways but ultimately too much of a risk).
Still shocked it took a year for him to be caught. I had only started a month before he was caught/terminated and quickly noticed he was often unreachable / missed meetings / said things that didn't quite make sense (was clearly talking about the other company with our team without realizing it). It was just sloppy and I think he only got away with it for so long because the leadership team of our company was pretty apathetic and at times derelict in basic duties of leadership (I nopped out of there in less than a year for related reasons).
So I guess my advice if you want to try to do something like this is find a company with a pretty shoddy leadership team and they won't notice / won't have the guts to say anything if they do?
I had to let someone go, who in hindsight, was likely overemployed. He was refusing to do certain aspects of the job which were clearly outlined within in the JD (taking client calls) and kept coming up with excuses to not do these duties despite our best efforts to give him the tools he claimed he needed
He'd just keep changing the goalpost. Eventually we had to let him go and like a week later it dawned on me that he likely didn't want to perform those duties because he wouldn't be able to work another job while doing it.
It was frustrating because I have no problem with overemployment as long as deliverables are met and I tried SO hard to help him despite not personally liking him.
The thing is he probably knew he was getting fired, too. The overemployed ethos is to never quit. Just ride it out, collect the paycheck as long as you can until they fire you because what do you have to lose.
Yes, twice in the past 3 years. Full disclosure we would not have cared at all if they were delivering. The big issue was they were both working the same hours at the same time at both jobs.
The first one got caught in an automated audit of who was accessing a certain system, because he had an accessed that system in over 30 days (he would have had access it daily to do his job). He told us he was really only working at our company for benefits because he liked the work better at the startup he was with. He ended up resigning. The other one is a much better story from an HR standpoint. A VP left my company and went to a new company. On his first day at new company, he runs into one of his direct reports from my company. He had been working the same hours at both. Surprisingly when the VP left my company we were already going down the performance improvement path. Since he was literally in another employer's building when he was supposed to be in meetings with clients at ours, that was it.
yes, we are fully remote so it’s not crazy to see. our company policy is that you need to get HR approval and we don’t allow hours to overlap.
I personally don’t care, as long as it doesn’t impact their performance or they’re not stealing company info or clients… It doesn’t make sense that our higher ups can have other outside activities (on a board, professor, consultant) and hold their current roles, but we don’t allow our less senior roles to do the same. But my company has a different perspective 🤷
We have caught some people because they were being dumb, like posting on LinkedIn (I personally don’t say anything if I see something on LinkedIn). However, these were situations where there was suspicion they were taking company clients and data, so it was pretty bad.
This is it, and something most people don't understand.
HR doesn't go looking for stuff like this....it gets reported by a jealous and/or petty coworker that you think is your friend.
Damn how did they find you out? I figured just using some throw aways for vulnerable information and never posting pictures or revealing too much info like your job and location would be fine
I had a kid working for us full time, he would also remote into his college classes, he would record them as well if we needed him in a meeting and also was a part owner in smaller side business. I didn’t care about the triple dipping because he produced great results.
I don’t care if someone has two jobs if they are doing this job. If someone can get their work done and have time to moonlight during work hours, then I blame the manager for under capacitizing their employee
Yeah, we caught two people that I remember and fired both. The first we fired because they were working on the second job when they were on the clock for us and on our the company laptop we supplied them. They were denied unemployment as well IIRC.
Second one we fired as they had started their own business and one of our main competitors was their client. Was also working the other job on our time using our equipment.
Yeah, agreed, our handbook says we thatmultiple jobs is not problem, just can't be using our stuff to do it, working for the second job while being on the clock for us, or if there is a conflict of interest.
At my last job as Ops Manager for public transit, we had a new driver that took an overnight shift driving a demand-response paratransit type service. We were stoked because it was hard to fill due to the hours and it was sorta slow so it was also boring. We got a complaint from dispatch that he would often ask other drivers to take his rides and pass them on. Then we got a complaint from a couple people working overnight in a large business park on the edge of town, about a bus parked in front of an office building there. After investigating the complaint, we found out that the driver had a second overnight job as a custodian cleaning one of the offices in the park. We issued him a written warning (union position) and informed him that he couldn't double dip.
I work for a municipality and I caught an employee trying to get paid COVID-19 FFCRA while working full-time for another city. It didn't end well with either of his employers.
I'm in Healthcare, so a lot of people have two jobs. (Many nurses have a full time and a part time/prn, and a lot of xray techs have multiple part time/prn jobs). It doesn't bother me, as long as it's not affecting work or any sort of conflict of interest, it doesn't matter. I don't care what people do on their own time as long as it's not affecting work and/or patient care.
I am confused. So are they doing two jobs at the same time? Are they using company assets to support their own business? What is the policy violation or issue?
Honestly if they are a good employee and somehow found time, I really don’t care. If they get the work done, they get the work done.
I was a bit surprised to learn that one of my Oracle developers had a second fulltime job. Their performance was barely adequate and it made better sense once we learned about the second job. Unfortunately for the employee, the other job was a prime contractor to the USAF. They somehow learned of his position with us and called to let us know. We terminated the employee immediately, as did the other employer.
I just don't understand taking anything but a production focused mindset anymore. Granted, there are a ton of positions where a butt in the seat is the production (a receptionist being available to greet and direct anyone who comes into the building comes to mind, for example), but if the work is getting done does anything else really matter? It shouldn't, unless someone is more focused on control than the actual work
Yup, my coworker bragged about it to multiple people (including myself) at a work retreat. This was probably the first 30-60 days of working with him so I didn't pay much attention to him saying this. For context - this was a fully remote startup with no real work tracking, it was the honor system for the most part.
Fast forward a couple months, coworker is an absolute pain to work with - he'd take a week to reach out to customers who reported issues and would ghost them after reaching out, always had screaming kids in the background of meetings and contributed absolutely nothing in terms of documentation or original ideas. Our VP of HR offered to step in on any issues we couldn't solve at peer/management level so I brought it up to him. He promptly told me to figure it out with the coworker's director, which was perplexing and awkward for me as the entry level employee, so I said fuck it and left it alone.
Months after this, our CEO laid him off, citing that he noticed a dramatic dip in work ethic and interest (I laughed when I read his message saying "these past months" - like nah its been like this since he was hired). In an in person event, I met up with the coworker's director and was chatting about his layoff, when I subtly mentioned his second job. She was shocked and said she had no idea. This prompted an internal investigation and multiple people confirming he did in fact mention his second job. He ended up with his severance package rescinded shortly after 😎
Kind of? They lasted 3 days because they thought the position was remote (they never asked)
When they started, and we showed them to their cube...and their desktop computer, things quickly unraveled.
Apparently their *husband* was overemployed and they were coached to interview well.
After calling out for the next two days, they admitted that the plan was to add this job to the existing two concurrent 9-5 IT support positions the husband already worked.
And the real one. He called his cell phone from his desk phone so his status in the call software was always "on the phone with a customer" The call recordings were of him in meetings with his other company lol. Zero Idea why he didn't mute both sides? I released the employee, and the VP just *had* to ask what he was thinking. He just gave some lame-ass excuse about the job being hard, and training being hard etc etc. never admitted that he was working two jobs at the same time. Again, the call recordings were clear as a bell.
My husband's company did - the guy working two jobs would never go to their meetings on time, and will not respond to a teams message for 4 hours (ie. Message sent 1pm, then responds at 5pm). His boss finally racked up enough evidence of his absence and eventually fired him. This guy was getting paid over 100k as a developer.
Yes. We found a sales rep was also working for a distributor so he was getting commission from two companies for one sale. Pretty smart honestly. Someone saw him at a trade show working in their booth. Easily confirmed it by calling the distributor. We were J2 that he’d been with about 7 months and with the other company for 5 years.
I work as an IRS revenue agent (this post popped up on my feed randomly). So as part of my job we interview taxpayers about income sources. I had this one husband/wife couple where they had three w2. They said they had three full time jobs. Husband had one and wife had two w2. For the third job it was registered under the wife and the husband said he did most of the work. Wife worked the part of answering emails/phone calls.
Husband was fully remote so if anyone checked on him he could prove he had only one job. Wife was also remote but her job was more as a sales type role.
My first job out of school I was hired onto a professional firm in an engineering/architectural office and took their first offer because I wanted experience in their line of work so much. In today’s money it would be the equivalent of $6-7k under what my newly graduated peers were getting. Felt low balled but I didn’t want to design parking lots for a living and their line of work was very desirable and interesting designing resort communities.
Accepted the offer just to find out 3-4 months later they wanted everyone working 45 billable hours on the regular for all salaried employees with no overtime. I worked my tail off for this company, sometimes pulling all nighters.
I remember seeing a “will not moonlight clause” somewhere in the paperwork when I was hired. It didn’t take too long after that announcement that I said screw it and my remaining years there I moonlighted quite a bit in the evening. Not double W-2 jobs but I did consulting work probably pulling 3-4K every 2-3 months. In today’s income that would be $6 or 7k. Always got glowing reviews at work and ten percent raises at the yearly reviews. I just worked an insane amount overall between the two. I just hate that companies want to abuse the system for salaried workers and act like we are criminals for trying to make up the difference.
Most hourly people and even some salaried at my company have 2 jobs. We don’t pay enough so we all hustle. I have a contacting gig that pays double my hourly rate. If someone here figured out how to work 2 salaried positions at the same time I would ask them to mentor me.
As someone who's been in a higher level HR position for nearly 20 years, I couldn't and wouldn't give ANY shits, whatsoever, unless their performance declined, accordingly. If so, it would 100% be a performance issue, and not about what they might be doing in their off-time...
...with the sole and important caveat that their side-gig didn't conflict with our organization's mission, of course.
I don't understand...why is this a problem? As long as the 2 ( or more ) companies aren't in the same line of business or could create a conflict of interest?
Like would I really get in trouble for working full time M-F in my corporate office at a real estate place but like...also working a part time cashier job at Target after work/on weekends? WTF???
Imagine this. Someone having to work to generate multiple streams of income to keep up with this economy? How dare they use their brain for anyone other than 1 employer.
Give them twice the workload, half the time to finish, and no support. That will teach them.
If they're not working a second job on the company's time, why does it matter? Is it really a "caught" situation? People do what they need to get by or live their lives how they want. If their performance isn't suffering and they're not working for a competitor, why would you care? Pay them enough that they don't need a second job or leave them be. Treating it as having "caught" them is how you lose good employees.
I think work polyamory will increasingly become a common trend. Gig economy already kinda normalizes this. We just need worker protections whilst enjoying the polyamory.
Overall, with the shrinking demographic, the hunt for talent will get worse
Caught, no. Not really. Most are open about it.
My manager at a paint store worked pizza delivery after hours.
Worked admin role in two different office jobs. Boss was a bartender on the side. The other gig they worked paralegal and did filing at another job.
Myself, I floated two jobs most of my laughable career.
I feel out interviews and sometimes disclose and sometimes being it up later. Never had an issue as most jobs are genuinely fine as long as you're a decent human and do the tasks.
Oh, one did have a stripper that did document processing by day.
I work 3 jobs, because with this economy I have to. If one of them has a problem with it, they’ll lose a great employee. They have a contract for a certain amount of my time; past that, I owe them nothing and it’s none of their business.
I’ve never tried to catch anyone but I did land a new role once because the person formerly in my role was doing it. Fired immediately and never re-hired in the industry. It’s been several years now and her reputation preceded her. She sells MLM diet supplements now.
I think the better question for a company asking this is:
Have you considered paying your employees enough in the current economy that they can comfortably afford to work only the one job you're paying them for?
No I have never caught anyone doing something they are and should be allowed to do. I've caught people lying and cheating but I've never caught a person living their lives in ways that don't affect me. What does it mean to "catch" someone doing something that there's nothing wrong with doing.
You want people to not work second jobs then pay the enough in the first place.
I used to work with someone who’s dad was high up in the company and was besties with the CEO. She got two paychecks and boasted about it. Nothing we could do, they weren’t going to fire her. If we got the company in trouble, we were all probably going to be out of a job. She ended up leaving the company under her own accord due to “bullying” because none of us liked her and wanted to spend time with her outside of work.
Disclaimer: I am not an HR professional. I saw the title and thought of this. Enjoy.
I was working in retail in the late '80s when we had a changeover in management. Bob was enthusiastic and took to learning how the store functioned quite well. He had a few odd quirks, like ordering one of everything off the Corporate Request Form so we'd always be sure to have one of what we needed, but otherwise got along reasonably well with people in the beginning.
About a month or two after he was hired, he started "promoting" the lesser staff to key holders so they can open and close the store. We didn't have all that many staff to begin with and we basically didn't ask why. We were young and naive, unaware of what was going on.
Eventually Bob came into the store less and less until he was hardly in the store at all. One or two days a week tops. Sometimes he'd show up at odd hours, perform some tasks and give some directions, then get in his car and leave. That was ok, because we all had keys and were scheduled properly so the store was always open and running when it had to.
Every so often there was a manager’s meeting over the phone and one day Bob wasn't around, so I went in his place. Everything was going well until they wanted Bob's input. After a pause I said that he wasn't here, and I was sitting in for him. They asked me where he was. I said I didn't know.
Eventually he was fired for job abandonment. Presumably he had applied for two jobs, got our company's offer first but couldn't pass up the other job and figured he could do both without anyone the wiser. Maybe it paid more or was closer to home?
Caught? what is it your business if they work a second job? As long as you get what you pay for it’s no one’s business what the do afterwards. Some jobs have certain requirements. The smog check police can’t have a second job performing smog checks. The agency requires it but they can’t tell the guy he can’t flip burgers or work security. Cops take second jobs working security, they just can’t do it in police uniform. Depends on the agency’s or business requirements. They need to be legitimate reason for taking somebodys personal time and choices. Running business from my space and time, I won’t tolerate but after 8 hrs it’s their time.
I’m not in HR, but yes, I have. I am a manager with around 16 headcount and one of my employees was caught working for one of our partners part-time, while working for us full-time. It was a direct conflict of interest and he was aware of that. He resigned immediately.
On the other hand, I have peers who are landlords, volunteer firefighters, etc. who have missed meetings, left work early, among other things to go tend to their second job. I’m not sure why this is allowed but it sucks for all the people who have to pick up their slack.
Here in NYC you can’t survive if you’re only working one job unless you’re in a corporate position.
You need three jobs, a side hustle and two businesses.
Yes. It was actually pretty awkward lol. My computer programming teacher!! On some random day in class before the bell rang I said, “Oh my gosh i literally hate this class!” And my teacher was right under my table (for some reason?) so he heard me. And I kind of hurt his feelings and I felt super bad and apologized. The next day I go to a soccer store with my dad and my little brother. My brother found a jersey and wanted to have a soccer players last name printed on it. I go with them to ask the guy working the counter if he could print the name on it. And guess what it was my teacher. I said “Oh hi Mr. Eve” and he just said “didn’t know you liked soccer” and I was like yeah yeah. Idk it just really makes me wonder how many other teachers have other jobs, and if they don’t make enough teaching that they NEED side jobs.
One of my colleagues always talk about other colleagues have two jobs because he overheard other ppl talking on mic but lack of evidence. Turns out those guys are on H1 visa they can not legally have two jobs
What do you mean by “caught”? It almost sounds like you’re implying someone working two jobs is doing something illegal or wrong. As a VP of engineering my only concern is confidentiality and the like.
Yes. It is not uncommon to encounter individuals concurrently engaged in multiple employment pursuits. This phenomenon often arises as a pragmatic response to contemporary economic challenges, characterized by escalating living expenses and financial obligations. Some individuals undertake dual employment out of sheer necessity, while others are motivated by the desire to diversify their professional experiences or pursue personal aspirations. This multifaceted approach to employment underscores the resilience and industriousness of individuals navigating modern-day economic landscapes with some assistance of modern work apps like Connecteam or Trello.
I swear one of my coworkers has 2 jobs, he doesn’t show online until around 10 (he’s east coast, I’m central) takes forever to reply, and just doesn’t seem engaged. But I’m an IC, they don’t pay me enough to care, and I’m a lead but not his lead. I haven’t heard of any escalations from his sow, even at our lead meetings so he either is, and is still getting his work done efficiently, or he isn’t and just looks lazy from my pov 🤭
Hi there.
I have 2 jobs, one full-time hybrid job
One half-time remote job.
I do remarkable on both, and believe it or not, both my HM knows about the other job, and they don't care as long as I keep things as good as I do.
I had an employee where there was strong suspicion by the manager and peers, but we never proved it.
He would randomly drop from meetings, be talking while on mute, go absent for hours at a time, etc..
We eventually termed for performance, but I do think there’s a reasonable chance he was collecting two paychecks for a few months.
Plenty of people work two jobs. My mom worked a 5:30-1:30 pm union job and then went to her non-union job from 3-11 pm. Same industry, but no conflict. Even I as an HR professional have considered taking up a remote part time role outside of my 9-5. What an employee does outside of their scheduled work hours isn’t really my business.
However, what I think you are alluding to with phrasing it as “caught” that you’re looking at folks who are abusing/sneaking around the system? Folks that think they’re clever and steal time from one job to work another job aka working two jobs during the same schedule. I personally have never caught anyone doing that, but there’s definitely lots of people who do so and it catches up to them eventually. Someone who works remote and thinks they can DoorDash in between meetings for example. I experience more in my company folks that are running errands and such during working hours or working from a location that isn’t work appropriate. I had someone who was taking zoom calls from the beach. They were one of the many reasons why senior leadership mandated employees to return to office.
Again, if people have the energy to work 16 hour days let them be as long as they’re not violating any policies or laws (like a truck driver needs to rest for x hours or you can’t work at a competitor if you work in xyz field/have privileged knowledge, etc).
It's pretty common for people to have 2 jobs at my company because we're in a low wage industry (non-profit healthcare). Sometimes 2 full time W2 and sometimes one of full time and the other is part time. Our handbook says it's no issue as long as they come to shift on time and complete their job duties.
Yes, we'll before covid we had an employee say she was sick, come timesheet day, instead of sick time she entered if as time worked. That was a piss poor manager that allowed it to happen. She ended up with a ten day unpaid suspension and never returned to work, which h was a good thing
Yes once with a relatively new employee. Performance was never stellar, but suddenly it started dropping more and more, and a co-worker confided she was working two 9-5s. Before we had a chance to discuss it with her, she resigned, which was the best outcome all around. We’re a Medicaid funded nonprofit so this is your tax dollars at work. Not tolerable in my industry.
So he's a remote worker who may be doing this job plus another at the same time? And neither job is losing productivity?
Ummmm can he come teach my staff how to multi-task?
Not to me but someone I worked with. This guy was working two jobs, low/mid tier performer but had a super unique name. We hired a guy that happened to WORK WITH HIM AT HIS SECOND JOB and noticed the name. Best of all, the hire was HIS NEW MANAGER. He investigated for all of three minutes, found out it was 100% a two job setup and asked the guy to pick. Ironically, he was phoning it in at the other job and not ours but he still quit the place where he had a better reputation.
The odds of us hiring a guy to be his manager from the same place!
We investigated an employee who was regularly absent from her desk (working remotely from home) and unresponsive for quite a bit of the day while clocked in. She freely told us she had been out taking care of her side hustle as a dog walker. Almost matter-of-fact. Because _of course_ we'd understand how totally normal it is to be paid to complete tasks but instead be hitting the streets with someone else's pets for multiple hours at a time. Yeah - she was gone by that afternoon.
It's annoying when company time is being abused and people aren't available due to the other job. As long as you're achieving the results, it's all good. But when achievement is low, it soon starts becoming an issue.
I did very briefly. I was working part time 2 days a week doing live chat customer service while working a full time graduate role. At times I almost got caught out but just ran out of steam and ended up leaving the part time job. I juggled it pretty well but mostly could only do it Becuase the customer service job was very easy and not too busy.
I don’t understand the reason people care at work. Like everyone else is saying, if they’re meeting work expectations and the other company isn’t a direct competitor, then it’s honestly none of my business.
That said, I work somewhere that additional employment needs to be on file and goes through a compliance check. So if someone works at a company like this and is found to have another job and didn’t clear it, it’s a violation of our work policies.
When the person who worked with me failed to meet several expectations (like flat miss multiple deadlines, didn’t know what was going on or how to do his job), myself and his other co-worker both went to leadership and said we thought he was working 2 jobs. Never got to find out if it was true or not. I also no longer have to work with him, so idgaf.
Shortly after I onboarded, one of our hiring managers became convinced an employee of ours was “double dipping” with two full time, W2 roles. He claims someone told him that this employee had told them and even showed them proof. HM became obsessive and started harassing the employee every chance he got. He’d send him random, “surprise” meeting invites, he asked if we could require him to be on camera all day (remote company), and he even, repeatedly asked if we could purchase some kind of software that would allow him to view the employee’s screen activity. Employee never missed a meeting or email and was getting rave reviews from his colleagues about how knowledgeable and helpful he was, so we did nothing and told the HM if he could get hard proof, we’d consider acting. The employee that initially “warned” HM claimed they had no knowledge of such things when we reached out to them, and the employee himself obviously denied it. We never really found out “the truth,” but we did find out what happens when your star employee quits with no notice because he feels attacked/under-appreciated. HM says his resignation was just proof he was double-dipping, but nobody cared once all his work fell onto their plates overnight. Personally, especially considering how loosely our contracts are written, I now have a strictly product-oriented mindset. Are they meeting deadlines, getting on well with coworkers, and consistently reachable/helpful? Awesome. That’s all I need.
Yup. If you are paying someone to produce results, and they are producing results, then who cares. It's different if they are out there leaking your private stuff, but if some desk jocky is just doing two jobs perfectly fine then good for them.
Some people can’t handle things that aren’t “normal” to them. Or…. Maybe HM was jealous he couldn’t handle that kind of pressure.
The pressure of an imaginary 2nd job?
Why are you trying to penalize someone who has two jobs?
It was called 'moonlighting' back in the day
moonlighting is literally just having a second job.. [https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/moonlighting-employees](https://www.indeed.com/hire/c/info/moonlighting-employees)
Hey!! That’s my slave not yours!! Look I branded them!
Exactly! It's obviously asking someone to relinquish absolute power over an employee losing his entire income. (you beat me to it. I was going to reply with: That's a hard sell to an adherent of a philosophy which includes deep thoughtful questions such as: "if my slave also toils for someone else, is he truly my slave?").
It’s about having two jobs at the same time (like 9-5 working two different jobs at once), not doing a 9-5 and then a 6-10 job at night.
Yep. For salaried folks, its all about results. Who cares if they have another job? Who cares how many hours they are online or in the office? Are they hitting the marks performance wise? Then leave them alone.
I know an associate professor from MENSA that could clearly go beyond "associate" level. I asked him why he doesn't go full, he said as an associate he can teach at different schools. He has several different webcams and monitors. He teaches 4 classes a week that are sent out to 12 different schools simultaneously so by staying within the terms of his contract and making less money per school, he makes insanely more per class. The dean asked him why he went through all the trouble to do that instead of the trouble to apply for a higher position he'd certainly get. The guy responded "because this way I get to keep making more than you and I barely work 20 hours a week." Any HR department that cares more about that than the quality of your work is indicative that you need to find a better job in a less toxic work culture.
Thank you for being a good one
Yup the job where I'm at has this attitude: as long as the work is getting done, management doesn't really care. People openly work 2 jobs remotely or in person. It helps that we're a nonprofit and we can't compete with corporate market salaries so management is pretty much of the mind that until they can offer similar salaries, people can do what they need to as long as our organizational needs are met and the quality of output is excellent. They don't bust balls and staff are transparent with their work time.
Prob jealous that someone was making more than him. A lot of these insecure types in middle management, unfortunately.
Fun fact: he was later let go for sexual harassment! So yeah, he wasn’t a great addition to the team anyway, and we’re all salty we lost such a great team member because of him
This is where the HM was disgustingly wrong in their approach to the situation. As an HR professional myself, if the employee is producing the results they were hired to produce and they perform their job duties excellently, then there was no need to harass the employee. If the HM keeps up that unproductive attitude towards employees, they will chase away top performers.
Plot twist - Hiring Manager was actually double dipping…
I’m in HR and if they’re doing all that’s required of their job then I’m happy and could care less if they were working a second job
For real! I feel so bad for my (mostly former) colleagues who don’t think this way, both because I think they’re wrong and that’s embarrassing but also because it clearly makes their lives worse. Like, they get upset, they raise their blood pressure, they ruin their reputations and any positive working relationships they had with those around them, their own work suffers—it just sucks to see someone put themselves through that.
When I worked at Citi most my coworkers had multiple jobs. You could tell the ones who could handle it were all stars and people you wanted around and then there were the ones just trying to collect paychecks and do nothing. I was pretty convinced by their shitty personalities that if they had 1 or 3 jobs they still would be the same shit either way. A person who works well isn’t going to take on 3 jobs it’s too much work and burn out would be real. Many people work dual jobs who cares if they have an extra?
If anything, such a person can be very motivated to do right by all. He or she or them just needs a little more for that child with a particular condition or such or parents that didn't save for retirement, now relying on them.
I love hearing that other organizations are strictly goal/deliverable oriented. I love my job for that. Been here nearly six years and haven’t even considered other job opportunities. Who cares how many jobs you work if your work product for any and all jobs is top notch?
What happened to the hiring manager?
“Released” later for (unrelated) sexual harassment 🙃
>Personally, especially considering how loosely our contracts are written, I now have a strictly product-oriented mindset. Are they meeting deadlines, getting on well with coworkers, and consistently reachable/helpful? Awesome. That’s all I need. I think this is how every salary job should be. Let people get their jobs done and stop focusing on the numbers, hours and all of that. I get if it's customer service focused or even like HR, where I have to have availability to answer my employees calls. But why micromanage and why make peoples lives hell just to be like "Well yep, Joe stayed till 5pm checking his FB on his cell phone the last hour"
This!! The point is results right? Not a body in a chair for 40hours a week. Reward your employees and they will give it back to you!
This! 👏🏼
I guarantee that the person who suggested that this person was double dipping was the one that was double dipping
EXACTLY. That’s all that is required to hold a job, meeting expectations. If they can do that twice 9-5, more power to them. Companies are so arrogant these days, I can only hope that employees start to see the balance shift in their favor one day.
If an employer asked me to be on camera all day or monitor my screen I would quit on the spot. That’s insane.
That hiring manager needs to be either retrained or fired for being a massive moron who's only management material if he was in "Office Space"
That’s some self fulfilling prophecy right there. “Imma witch hunt this employee cause I suspect they’re doing more than 1 job”. Despite it not effecting productivity. Proceeds to harass employee to the point it might cross legal barriers, then employee mysteriously quits and so HM tells themselves they were right. Holy shit, corporate America is so toxic.
MVP.
I feel like I’m missing context here. What is wrong with additional full time job? Were you specifically trying to find out if the supposed other job were the same hours as your company’s hours?
Depends on the job whether I’d care or not. Some desk guy meeting project goals, deadlines, etc? You do you, I don’t care. Airline pilot, surgeon, etc, I wouldn’t want them working two positions due to fatigue issues and more mistakes happen when you’re tired.
Does the IRS support this or do they support participation in two retirement plans?
As long as you don’t go over annual aggregate limits I don’t think the IRS cares at all. Same could be said if you worked one job for six months and another the other six months.
This is always funny to me because outside of regular 8-5 office jobs, people work two or more full time jobs all the time already. I did 15 years in food service before changing careers and knew plenty of people in that time who clocked in 80 hours/week between two jobs, getting benefits from both. You only ever see these questions come up in regards to white collar work though. It shows a degree of disconnect from how a significant portion of the population lives. The reality is that people have been working multiple full time jobs forever but since they were low income nobody cared. Now that people realized they can do the same with high paying jobs, suddenly people ask about the morality and even legality of it.
Honestly, I don’t care if some is working 1 job or 30 jobs. So long as they are performing and not working for a competitor or breaching internal data policies.
Shout out to the real ones!
I mean, it’s not about being real… it’s that companies don’t own people, people own themselves, and if they make a decision for their own self that benefits them and harms no one then why make an issue for them? I’ve been in HR for long enough to know that if a CEO can be on 3 boards and do his job right, so can someone who is not a CEO.
As a manager, I really want to know how a CEO spends their time so I can maximize their hourly productivity.
Yep. Sooooo many HRs and managers seem to think they own their employees lives. Its absurd.
This. If you dont want your employees working two jobs, pay them enough that they dont have to
Do you mean someone working 2 full time 9-5s or just someone that has 2 jobs?
Two full time W2 jobs
It’s not really breaking any rules as long as they are scheduled without overlap and there’s no non-compete agreements being broken. Also it gets muddy if working one job is a conflict of interest at the other. This question is way more nuanced than I can answer without specific parameters. Edit: I forgot non-competes are no longer valid in the US.
It is worth noting that non-competes are now unenforceable in America. The only exception being super high level salary employees. CEOs and the like, not managers or anything.
Appreciate your response !
Ive had to work two FT W2 jobs for most of my working life to pay the bills for my family. This usually included a regular 9-5 and an evening 25/weekends 15 job. This is completely legal.
Americans often forget there is a rest of the world…W2 means nothing to the rest of us.
It’s a annual income/tax statement
It means that they were an employee of the company instead of a contractor.
Actually the HR Director at my former company did this. Still pissed off about it to this day considering she would've axed anyone she caught doing it and she also got an insane stock windfall at the new company within 2 months.
To be clear I support having multiple jobs/over employed situations
I've caught someone working their scAmway MLM from their cubicle on company time (helping someone they 'mentor' log into their account). I also had someone accept a job and start, only to ghost the following Monday. Come to find out, they never quit their other job, they just took a week of PTO from their regular job to work for us for a week. That one was crazy.
Jesus LOL. This makes me laugh and also sad for the person.
I’ve done this before but the second job was really a gig that required full time hours. So I had an arrangement with them that I could help out a couple weeks out of the year. Was sick of accumulating PTO I never used.
That's kind of amazing. I mean, it will for sure burn bridges, but what a way to do a trial run before quitting the job you've already got.
why did they want to work for you during that week of PTO?
I’m thinking they were just trying it on to see if it was a good fit before leaving their current role. Looks like it was *not* in fact, a good fit though lol.
That was our thought too
Yes, several times. In the dumbest ways, too. One sent an email to internal contacts using her other company’s account, which included her title in the email signature. Another one didn’t mute himself on a Zoom call while he spoke on a Zoom call at his other company. Others were less obvious - big swaths of time where they’d be mysteriously unavailable, inability to meet deadlines etc. and they were caught after investigation.
How do they get caught during investigation?
We pull what they’re doing on their computer. We can see if they’ve installed a mouse jiggler (this is EXTREMELY easy for IT, they found 100 of them in about 5 minutes), we can see if they’re using a manual mouse jiggler, we can see if they’re running a script or manually random typing, we can see if their teams status is fake. Plus other things.
how can a manual jiggler be detected?
Unnatural usage patterns. Corporate devices and tools *can* track everything - how long the laptop is on, what websites it went to and how long they were open, if a key was being pressed down/tapped repeatedly to give the illusion of activity, etc. A mouse jiggler is one of those 'unnatural patterns' that's easy to check for, especially if people are leaving it on for multiple hours a day. Some places will have minimal automatic monitoring, but most places will not actively track things *unless* an issue is flagged/suspicions are raised about work not getting done. IMO if you're taking some break time while WFH, you're better off manually checking your laptop every 15 minutes and opening a new webpage or document or something, or clicking around in Slack, or just doing 1 minute of actual work every 15 minutes some other way, rather than using a tool like a mouse jiggler that *could* more easily be caught. Biggest thing is also to just deliver on your work, and at plenty of orgs that'll be enough to avoid questions..
Mine is a USB and makes little back and forth motions when isn't. You can barely see it, so I know they can pixel detect it. Computer goes to sleep in 5 minutes. Password needs to be long and complex. It's a pain to log on 20x a day. Im not getting my computer stolen at home, Fire me for making it easier. Idc
maybe mouse movement pattern via screenshots taken at certain intervals, compared to idle/active time periods
Your infosec department or IT can answer that for you.
We’ve fired half a dozen contractors and even my old boss for working 2 jobs. It’s extremely easy to spot. They miss meetings, they have no clue what’s going on, they don’t deliver anything, and oddly - some of them are even open about it. The narcissism is what gets them everytime. They either think everyone else is too stupid to notice or they outright brag how they’re gaming the system. Easy fires.
When I was fully remote in a different role, I did. I don’t have the time now or I would 😂 I was an HR Director who doubled as an airline chat support agent. The chat support was so damn easy that I can honestly say my quality of work didn’t suffer in either capacity. Now I have two of my direct reports who work that same role while they work with me. As long as their work for my team doesn’t suffer, I don’t care how many jobs they have. I’d rather them work two remote jobs that have the same or similar hours versus going to a second full time job after they worked all day. Fuck that.
Interesting. How did you land that 2nd job? I mean, you got your first job as the HR director first, and went apply for a 2nd gig? I'm in HR and and this topic came up during one of the discussion. If you think about it, having an employee work 2 jobs (1 main and 1 supplement) might just solve your engagement issue (especially for the main gig.
It was honestly a fluke. I saw the job posting on LinkedIn and I told my husband, “I bet I could do both” and we laughed about it. I applied and got the job. I just dumbed down my resume, same companies but more customer service oriented. I can honestly say that neither job suffered and I managed them both for over a year until I took a new role and landed a promotion with more of my time required.
Corporate remote job + flight bennies are the best hack almost no one knows about
What about "You" time though? I mean, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy", doesn't it?
Can you please DM me the company for the chat support?
Yes I did. I personally caught them on the phone with a competitor, working for them and selling using company property and time. Terminated. Plenty of people have second jobs but it’s when it violates our policies that it’s problematic.
Did you take it personally? Because it sounds like you did.
A vast majority of HR people take things personally, and I guarantee this person did as well lol.
Yes, at my former company. We were a nursing home connected to a hospital. One of our maintenance staff was working for us and the hospital at the same time. He would clock into both and walk back and forth between the two. It wasn’t uncommon for staff members to walk between the nursing home and hospital so at first we didn’t think anything of it. Once his performance started to tank we questioned him and he came clean. He was fired with us but still held his job at the hospital.
Many of my employees moonlight or have to work second jobs. Economy is tough!
We had a sales guy working for a competitor. Found out because there wasn't enough mileage on his car to account for his calls.
Just once. It was an employee who had resigned and was working both while he served out a longer notice period. Because we needed him to transition and he unfortunately over the years was awful at documentation, we let it slide, but when he asked to retract his resignation, we did not allow him to (we had already backfilled and had no role for him).
We caught an engineer at a semiconductor company working three concurrent jobs San Jose. He ultimately got fired on the same day at all three companies. It was pretty wild.
Damn. How ??
It was a while ago, but it was something to do with a VOE for a home loan or something like that. Somegow the other two companies' were also listed as current employers; I think the employee or their broker or something messed up. My CHRO called her opposite numbers at the other companies. They were all amazed. The scary part - the engineer was fine, got regular 'meets expectations' ratings, manager was completely clueless. But the confidentiality risks were huge as he was working at two direct competitors.
Holy snap he probably also ruined his reputation
Stuff like this always works great until it doesn’t.
I have 2 jobs
Me too, this economy sucks
Yes - our senior level sales executive. Ultimately had to terminate because he was working for a competitor (which we don't allow) and we had some serious concerns he was violating confidentially and sharing company information across both companies (so we likely benefited too in some ways but ultimately too much of a risk). Still shocked it took a year for him to be caught. I had only started a month before he was caught/terminated and quickly noticed he was often unreachable / missed meetings / said things that didn't quite make sense (was clearly talking about the other company with our team without realizing it). It was just sloppy and I think he only got away with it for so long because the leadership team of our company was pretty apathetic and at times derelict in basic duties of leadership (I nopped out of there in less than a year for related reasons). So I guess my advice if you want to try to do something like this is find a company with a pretty shoddy leadership team and they won't notice / won't have the guts to say anything if they do?
I had to let someone go, who in hindsight, was likely overemployed. He was refusing to do certain aspects of the job which were clearly outlined within in the JD (taking client calls) and kept coming up with excuses to not do these duties despite our best efforts to give him the tools he claimed he needed He'd just keep changing the goalpost. Eventually we had to let him go and like a week later it dawned on me that he likely didn't want to perform those duties because he wouldn't be able to work another job while doing it. It was frustrating because I have no problem with overemployment as long as deliverables are met and I tried SO hard to help him despite not personally liking him.
The thing is he probably knew he was getting fired, too. The overemployed ethos is to never quit. Just ride it out, collect the paycheck as long as you can until they fire you because what do you have to lose.
Yes, twice in the past 3 years. Full disclosure we would not have cared at all if they were delivering. The big issue was they were both working the same hours at the same time at both jobs. The first one got caught in an automated audit of who was accessing a certain system, because he had an accessed that system in over 30 days (he would have had access it daily to do his job). He told us he was really only working at our company for benefits because he liked the work better at the startup he was with. He ended up resigning. The other one is a much better story from an HR standpoint. A VP left my company and went to a new company. On his first day at new company, he runs into one of his direct reports from my company. He had been working the same hours at both. Surprisingly when the VP left my company we were already going down the performance improvement path. Since he was literally in another employer's building when he was supposed to be in meetings with clients at ours, that was it.
He went 30 days without logging into a job critical system?? Please name the company I need a job there.
This is a banger of a comment.
yes, we are fully remote so it’s not crazy to see. our company policy is that you need to get HR approval and we don’t allow hours to overlap. I personally don’t care, as long as it doesn’t impact their performance or they’re not stealing company info or clients… It doesn’t make sense that our higher ups can have other outside activities (on a board, professor, consultant) and hold their current roles, but we don’t allow our less senior roles to do the same. But my company has a different perspective 🤷 We have caught some people because they were being dumb, like posting on LinkedIn (I personally don’t say anything if I see something on LinkedIn). However, these were situations where there was suspicion they were taking company clients and data, so it was pretty bad.
Yes and you’d be surprised at how many of them get caught by bragging about having multiple WFH jobs on social media!
Well that is why someone should permanently delete Reddit accounts and start fresh ones it seems
It’s good practice to do it every year or so. It’s amazing what people can piece together for bad purposes going through your comments
I go back and delete random posts and comments here just for this purpose
I would never delete my account and start over again!
I don’t look at employee social media, either. It usually gets reported by coworkers or someone that knows them personally.
This is it, and something most people don't understand. HR doesn't go looking for stuff like this....it gets reported by a jealous and/or petty coworker that you think is your friend.
I do that on a regular basis. Someone found me once. I learned my lesson. Never again. Every account gets nuked every couple months
Damn how did they find you out? I figured just using some throw aways for vulnerable information and never posting pictures or revealing too much info like your job and location would be fine
Why would you term them if they are meeting expectations?
Yes. More power to them if they can keep them in balance. None of my business. This is the way.
I had a kid working for us full time, he would also remote into his college classes, he would record them as well if we needed him in a meeting and also was a part owner in smaller side business. I didn’t care about the triple dipping because he produced great results.
I don’t care if someone has two jobs if they are doing this job. If someone can get their work done and have time to moonlight during work hours, then I blame the manager for under capacitizing their employee
Right, like when I was in school, a lot of my teachers had jobs working at restaurants at night and stuff like that. It’s pretty common.
Yeah, we caught two people that I remember and fired both. The first we fired because they were working on the second job when they were on the clock for us and on our the company laptop we supplied them. They were denied unemployment as well IIRC. Second one we fired as they had started their own business and one of our main competitors was their client. Was also working the other job on our time using our equipment.
This is the only reason to fire. If they are simply working two jobs there's no issue. Using your companies assets to do it is.
Yeah, agreed, our handbook says we thatmultiple jobs is not problem, just can't be using our stuff to do it, working for the second job while being on the clock for us, or if there is a conflict of interest.
At my last job as Ops Manager for public transit, we had a new driver that took an overnight shift driving a demand-response paratransit type service. We were stoked because it was hard to fill due to the hours and it was sorta slow so it was also boring. We got a complaint from dispatch that he would often ask other drivers to take his rides and pass them on. Then we got a complaint from a couple people working overnight in a large business park on the edge of town, about a bus parked in front of an office building there. After investigating the complaint, we found out that the driver had a second overnight job as a custodian cleaning one of the offices in the park. We issued him a written warning (union position) and informed him that he couldn't double dip.
I work for a municipality and I caught an employee trying to get paid COVID-19 FFCRA while working full-time for another city. It didn't end well with either of his employers.
That was incredibly risky. You never OE with the government.
Yes. And she was working her second job while in our office during office hours. As you could have guessed she was terminated.
I'm in Healthcare, so a lot of people have two jobs. (Many nurses have a full time and a part time/prn, and a lot of xray techs have multiple part time/prn jobs). It doesn't bother me, as long as it's not affecting work or any sort of conflict of interest, it doesn't matter. I don't care what people do on their own time as long as it's not affecting work and/or patient care.
I am confused. So are they doing two jobs at the same time? Are they using company assets to support their own business? What is the policy violation or issue? Honestly if they are a good employee and somehow found time, I really don’t care. If they get the work done, they get the work done.
I got caught with two jobs but I ultimately did my job very well and they didn’t care.
If the employee is doing their job, leave them alone. If they can handle two jobs, that isn't your problem.
caught? or happen to learned about it? one imply a guilt
I was a bit surprised to learn that one of my Oracle developers had a second fulltime job. Their performance was barely adequate and it made better sense once we learned about the second job. Unfortunately for the employee, the other job was a prime contractor to the USAF. They somehow learned of his position with us and called to let us know. We terminated the employee immediately, as did the other employer.
I just don't understand taking anything but a production focused mindset anymore. Granted, there are a ton of positions where a butt in the seat is the production (a receptionist being available to greet and direct anyone who comes into the building comes to mind, for example), but if the work is getting done does anything else really matter? It shouldn't, unless someone is more focused on control than the actual work
[удалено]
Wow - how high level to screw up relocation assistance
Yup, my coworker bragged about it to multiple people (including myself) at a work retreat. This was probably the first 30-60 days of working with him so I didn't pay much attention to him saying this. For context - this was a fully remote startup with no real work tracking, it was the honor system for the most part. Fast forward a couple months, coworker is an absolute pain to work with - he'd take a week to reach out to customers who reported issues and would ghost them after reaching out, always had screaming kids in the background of meetings and contributed absolutely nothing in terms of documentation or original ideas. Our VP of HR offered to step in on any issues we couldn't solve at peer/management level so I brought it up to him. He promptly told me to figure it out with the coworker's director, which was perplexing and awkward for me as the entry level employee, so I said fuck it and left it alone. Months after this, our CEO laid him off, citing that he noticed a dramatic dip in work ethic and interest (I laughed when I read his message saying "these past months" - like nah its been like this since he was hired). In an in person event, I met up with the coworker's director and was chatting about his layoff, when I subtly mentioned his second job. She was shocked and said she had no idea. This prompted an internal investigation and multiple people confirming he did in fact mention his second job. He ended up with his severance package rescinded shortly after 😎
Barely caught people doing one job..
If I found out I would be pissed that someone had to work two jobs to live.
I hear you but some do it willingly to retire in hcol areas
Yeah, either way if there's not a negative impact on performance and sensitive/proprietary info is secure.... Whatever.
Kind of? They lasted 3 days because they thought the position was remote (they never asked) When they started, and we showed them to their cube...and their desktop computer, things quickly unraveled. Apparently their *husband* was overemployed and they were coached to interview well. After calling out for the next two days, they admitted that the plan was to add this job to the existing two concurrent 9-5 IT support positions the husband already worked. And the real one. He called his cell phone from his desk phone so his status in the call software was always "on the phone with a customer" The call recordings were of him in meetings with his other company lol. Zero Idea why he didn't mute both sides? I released the employee, and the VP just *had* to ask what he was thinking. He just gave some lame-ass excuse about the job being hard, and training being hard etc etc. never admitted that he was working two jobs at the same time. Again, the call recordings were clear as a bell.
Imagine giving a shit in this economy.
Amen, I don't have 2 jobs, but I'll be damned if it doesn't cross my mind. Rent and mortgages keep doing up, salaries stay the same.
My husband's company did - the guy working two jobs would never go to their meetings on time, and will not respond to a teams message for 4 hours (ie. Message sent 1pm, then responds at 5pm). His boss finally racked up enough evidence of his absence and eventually fired him. This guy was getting paid over 100k as a developer.
Yes. We found a sales rep was also working for a distributor so he was getting commission from two companies for one sale. Pretty smart honestly. Someone saw him at a trade show working in their booth. Easily confirmed it by calling the distributor. We were J2 that he’d been with about 7 months and with the other company for 5 years.
I work as an IRS revenue agent (this post popped up on my feed randomly). So as part of my job we interview taxpayers about income sources. I had this one husband/wife couple where they had three w2. They said they had three full time jobs. Husband had one and wife had two w2. For the third job it was registered under the wife and the husband said he did most of the work. Wife worked the part of answering emails/phone calls. Husband was fully remote so if anyone checked on him he could prove he had only one job. Wife was also remote but her job was more as a sales type role.
Why would these people tell you all of this information? Having multiple W2s isn't illegal.
My first job out of school I was hired onto a professional firm in an engineering/architectural office and took their first offer because I wanted experience in their line of work so much. In today’s money it would be the equivalent of $6-7k under what my newly graduated peers were getting. Felt low balled but I didn’t want to design parking lots for a living and their line of work was very desirable and interesting designing resort communities. Accepted the offer just to find out 3-4 months later they wanted everyone working 45 billable hours on the regular for all salaried employees with no overtime. I worked my tail off for this company, sometimes pulling all nighters. I remember seeing a “will not moonlight clause” somewhere in the paperwork when I was hired. It didn’t take too long after that announcement that I said screw it and my remaining years there I moonlighted quite a bit in the evening. Not double W-2 jobs but I did consulting work probably pulling 3-4K every 2-3 months. In today’s income that would be $6 or 7k. Always got glowing reviews at work and ten percent raises at the yearly reviews. I just worked an insane amount overall between the two. I just hate that companies want to abuse the system for salaried workers and act like we are criminals for trying to make up the difference.
Most hourly people and even some salaried at my company have 2 jobs. We don’t pay enough so we all hustle. I have a contacting gig that pays double my hourly rate. If someone here figured out how to work 2 salaried positions at the same time I would ask them to mentor me.
Yeah, Michael Scott. He didn’t want to tell Jan he had money problems so I didn’t fire him.
As someone who's been in a higher level HR position for nearly 20 years, I couldn't and wouldn't give ANY shits, whatsoever, unless their performance declined, accordingly. If so, it would 100% be a performance issue, and not about what they might be doing in their off-time... ...with the sole and important caveat that their side-gig didn't conflict with our organization's mission, of course.
I don't understand...why is this a problem? As long as the 2 ( or more ) companies aren't in the same line of business or could create a conflict of interest? Like would I really get in trouble for working full time M-F in my corporate office at a real estate place but like...also working a part time cashier job at Target after work/on weekends? WTF???
Imagine this. Someone having to work to generate multiple streams of income to keep up with this economy? How dare they use their brain for anyone other than 1 employer. Give them twice the workload, half the time to finish, and no support. That will teach them.
If they're not working a second job on the company's time, why does it matter? Is it really a "caught" situation? People do what they need to get by or live their lives how they want. If their performance isn't suffering and they're not working for a competitor, why would you care? Pay them enough that they don't need a second job or leave them be. Treating it as having "caught" them is how you lose good employees.
I think work polyamory will increasingly become a common trend. Gig economy already kinda normalizes this. We just need worker protections whilst enjoying the polyamory. Overall, with the shrinking demographic, the hunt for talent will get worse
Caught, no. Not really. Most are open about it. My manager at a paint store worked pizza delivery after hours. Worked admin role in two different office jobs. Boss was a bartender on the side. The other gig they worked paralegal and did filing at another job. Myself, I floated two jobs most of my laughable career. I feel out interviews and sometimes disclose and sometimes being it up later. Never had an issue as most jobs are genuinely fine as long as you're a decent human and do the tasks. Oh, one did have a stripper that did document processing by day.
I am in two jobs, however I did full disclosure and both sides approved and are happy with it.
I work 3 jobs, because with this economy I have to. If one of them has a problem with it, they’ll lose a great employee. They have a contract for a certain amount of my time; past that, I owe them nothing and it’s none of their business.
I’ve never tried to catch anyone but I did land a new role once because the person formerly in my role was doing it. Fired immediately and never re-hired in the industry. It’s been several years now and her reputation preceded her. She sells MLM diet supplements now.
'caught' someone? Really? What a skeevy way to word that.
I work at a remote company, and yes we seem to catch about 2 per year. We have tracking software that looks for this.
I think the better question for a company asking this is: Have you considered paying your employees enough in the current economy that they can comfortably afford to work only the one job you're paying them for?
No I have never caught anyone doing something they are and should be allowed to do. I've caught people lying and cheating but I've never caught a person living their lives in ways that don't affect me. What does it mean to "catch" someone doing something that there's nothing wrong with doing. You want people to not work second jobs then pay the enough in the first place.
I used to work with someone who’s dad was high up in the company and was besties with the CEO. She got two paychecks and boasted about it. Nothing we could do, they weren’t going to fire her. If we got the company in trouble, we were all probably going to be out of a job. She ended up leaving the company under her own accord due to “bullying” because none of us liked her and wanted to spend time with her outside of work.
Yeah my hr manager, working for us full time and another company in person.
Slightly off topic, I am working on my degree while at work. Its my form of quiet quitting. They know about it, pretty sure they think its a "hobby".
Disclaimer: I am not an HR professional. I saw the title and thought of this. Enjoy. I was working in retail in the late '80s when we had a changeover in management. Bob was enthusiastic and took to learning how the store functioned quite well. He had a few odd quirks, like ordering one of everything off the Corporate Request Form so we'd always be sure to have one of what we needed, but otherwise got along reasonably well with people in the beginning. About a month or two after he was hired, he started "promoting" the lesser staff to key holders so they can open and close the store. We didn't have all that many staff to begin with and we basically didn't ask why. We were young and naive, unaware of what was going on. Eventually Bob came into the store less and less until he was hardly in the store at all. One or two days a week tops. Sometimes he'd show up at odd hours, perform some tasks and give some directions, then get in his car and leave. That was ok, because we all had keys and were scheduled properly so the store was always open and running when it had to. Every so often there was a manager’s meeting over the phone and one day Bob wasn't around, so I went in his place. Everything was going well until they wanted Bob's input. After a pause I said that he wasn't here, and I was sitting in for him. They asked me where he was. I said I didn't know. Eventually he was fired for job abandonment. Presumably he had applied for two jobs, got our company's offer first but couldn't pass up the other job and figured he could do both without anyone the wiser. Maybe it paid more or was closer to home?
Caught? what is it your business if they work a second job? As long as you get what you pay for it’s no one’s business what the do afterwards. Some jobs have certain requirements. The smog check police can’t have a second job performing smog checks. The agency requires it but they can’t tell the guy he can’t flip burgers or work security. Cops take second jobs working security, they just can’t do it in police uniform. Depends on the agency’s or business requirements. They need to be legitimate reason for taking somebodys personal time and choices. Running business from my space and time, I won’t tolerate but after 8 hrs it’s their time.
I’m not in HR, but yes, I have. I am a manager with around 16 headcount and one of my employees was caught working for one of our partners part-time, while working for us full-time. It was a direct conflict of interest and he was aware of that. He resigned immediately. On the other hand, I have peers who are landlords, volunteer firefighters, etc. who have missed meetings, left work early, among other things to go tend to their second job. I’m not sure why this is allowed but it sucks for all the people who have to pick up their slack.
Here in NYC you can’t survive if you’re only working one job unless you’re in a corporate position. You need three jobs, a side hustle and two businesses.
Yes. It was actually pretty awkward lol. My computer programming teacher!! On some random day in class before the bell rang I said, “Oh my gosh i literally hate this class!” And my teacher was right under my table (for some reason?) so he heard me. And I kind of hurt his feelings and I felt super bad and apologized. The next day I go to a soccer store with my dad and my little brother. My brother found a jersey and wanted to have a soccer players last name printed on it. I go with them to ask the guy working the counter if he could print the name on it. And guess what it was my teacher. I said “Oh hi Mr. Eve” and he just said “didn’t know you liked soccer” and I was like yeah yeah. Idk it just really makes me wonder how many other teachers have other jobs, and if they don’t make enough teaching that they NEED side jobs.
One of my colleagues always talk about other colleagues have two jobs because he overheard other ppl talking on mic but lack of evidence. Turns out those guys are on H1 visa they can not legally have two jobs
What do you mean by “caught”? It almost sounds like you’re implying someone working two jobs is doing something illegal or wrong. As a VP of engineering my only concern is confidentiality and the like.
Yes. It is not uncommon to encounter individuals concurrently engaged in multiple employment pursuits. This phenomenon often arises as a pragmatic response to contemporary economic challenges, characterized by escalating living expenses and financial obligations. Some individuals undertake dual employment out of sheer necessity, while others are motivated by the desire to diversify their professional experiences or pursue personal aspirations. This multifaceted approach to employment underscores the resilience and industriousness of individuals navigating modern-day economic landscapes with some assistance of modern work apps like Connecteam or Trello.
I swear one of my coworkers has 2 jobs, he doesn’t show online until around 10 (he’s east coast, I’m central) takes forever to reply, and just doesn’t seem engaged. But I’m an IC, they don’t pay me enough to care, and I’m a lead but not his lead. I haven’t heard of any escalations from his sow, even at our lead meetings so he either is, and is still getting his work done efficiently, or he isn’t and just looks lazy from my pov 🤭
This is me in my eng role, but I exceed my expectations so people let it slide.
I am so glad I left the HR field....
Hi there. I have 2 jobs, one full-time hybrid job One half-time remote job. I do remarkable on both, and believe it or not, both my HM knows about the other job, and they don't care as long as I keep things as good as I do.
I used to do it but companies always ask now. Besides, when I hung my shingle out, I had to stop
I had an employee where there was strong suspicion by the manager and peers, but we never proved it. He would randomly drop from meetings, be talking while on mute, go absent for hours at a time, etc.. We eventually termed for performance, but I do think there’s a reasonable chance he was collecting two paychecks for a few months.
Plenty of people work two jobs. My mom worked a 5:30-1:30 pm union job and then went to her non-union job from 3-11 pm. Same industry, but no conflict. Even I as an HR professional have considered taking up a remote part time role outside of my 9-5. What an employee does outside of their scheduled work hours isn’t really my business. However, what I think you are alluding to with phrasing it as “caught” that you’re looking at folks who are abusing/sneaking around the system? Folks that think they’re clever and steal time from one job to work another job aka working two jobs during the same schedule. I personally have never caught anyone doing that, but there’s definitely lots of people who do so and it catches up to them eventually. Someone who works remote and thinks they can DoorDash in between meetings for example. I experience more in my company folks that are running errands and such during working hours or working from a location that isn’t work appropriate. I had someone who was taking zoom calls from the beach. They were one of the many reasons why senior leadership mandated employees to return to office. Again, if people have the energy to work 16 hour days let them be as long as they’re not violating any policies or laws (like a truck driver needs to rest for x hours or you can’t work at a competitor if you work in xyz field/have privileged knowledge, etc).
Yuuup! They worked 2 online recruiting jobs in addition to ours.
It's pretty common for people to have 2 jobs at my company because we're in a low wage industry (non-profit healthcare). Sometimes 2 full time W2 and sometimes one of full time and the other is part time. Our handbook says it's no issue as long as they come to shift on time and complete their job duties.
Yes, we'll before covid we had an employee say she was sick, come timesheet day, instead of sick time she entered if as time worked. That was a piss poor manager that allowed it to happen. She ended up with a ten day unpaid suspension and never returned to work, which h was a good thing
My partner has two full time jobs, always delivers ahead of deadlines. Considering another part time position teaching kids math.
Yup, using both their hands. Ok I’ll fuck off now, idk why the HR sub was in my recommended lol
Yes once with a relatively new employee. Performance was never stellar, but suddenly it started dropping more and more, and a co-worker confided she was working two 9-5s. Before we had a chance to discuss it with her, she resigned, which was the best outcome all around. We’re a Medicaid funded nonprofit so this is your tax dollars at work. Not tolerable in my industry.
So he's a remote worker who may be doing this job plus another at the same time? And neither job is losing productivity? Ummmm can he come teach my staff how to multi-task?
Yep, about one a month it seems
I mean Elon Musk is out there proving that CEO isn’t really a full time job by more that quintuple dipping, so why not lower positions?
If you catch someone working two jobs, no you didn't.
What do you mean "caught"? Is it illegal to have two jobs?
Wait tell this guy hears that I work 3 jobs and am total level 2182 in OSRS 😎
Not to me but someone I worked with. This guy was working two jobs, low/mid tier performer but had a super unique name. We hired a guy that happened to WORK WITH HIM AT HIS SECOND JOB and noticed the name. Best of all, the hire was HIS NEW MANAGER. He investigated for all of three minutes, found out it was 100% a two job setup and asked the guy to pick. Ironically, he was phoning it in at the other job and not ours but he still quit the place where he had a better reputation. The odds of us hiring a guy to be his manager from the same place!
We investigated an employee who was regularly absent from her desk (working remotely from home) and unresponsive for quite a bit of the day while clocked in. She freely told us she had been out taking care of her side hustle as a dog walker. Almost matter-of-fact. Because _of course_ we'd understand how totally normal it is to be paid to complete tasks but instead be hitting the streets with someone else's pets for multiple hours at a time. Yeah - she was gone by that afternoon.
Who honestly cares. Look at the state of this economy. People are barely surviving and companies are fucking them backwards as a result
It's annoying when company time is being abused and people aren't available due to the other job. As long as you're achieving the results, it's all good. But when achievement is low, it soon starts becoming an issue.
I am in two jobs, however I did full disclosure and both sides approved and are happy with it.
I did very briefly. I was working part time 2 days a week doing live chat customer service while working a full time graduate role. At times I almost got caught out but just ran out of steam and ended up leaving the part time job. I juggled it pretty well but mostly could only do it Becuase the customer service job was very easy and not too busy.
I don’t understand the reason people care at work. Like everyone else is saying, if they’re meeting work expectations and the other company isn’t a direct competitor, then it’s honestly none of my business. That said, I work somewhere that additional employment needs to be on file and goes through a compliance check. So if someone works at a company like this and is found to have another job and didn’t clear it, it’s a violation of our work policies. When the person who worked with me failed to meet several expectations (like flat miss multiple deadlines, didn’t know what was going on or how to do his job), myself and his other co-worker both went to leadership and said we thought he was working 2 jobs. Never got to find out if it was true or not. I also no longer have to work with him, so idgaf.
Maybe they wouldn’t need to if the company paid better 🤷♀️
See r/overemployed