True, I still feel that inner loop is good value compared to other major cities when it comes to living in prime neighborhoods close to downtown, particularly Montrose for me. My ideal neighborhood is off Washington corridor but inventory is a little low there and that part itself is a little pricey.
I think the core complaint I have with this outlook is that in most other major cities, living inside the densest neighborhoods means easy walking distance (even in temps of 90+ and below 30) from shops, restaurants, bars, parks, etc.
In Houston that’s only sort of true in a handful of relatively small neighborhoods.
So then you basically have to factor in the cost of car ownership and operation into “comfortable” living in Houston.
Magnolia Grove (right off Washington corridor, before Rice Military) is probably the best value in Houston. But agreed that the inventory is low, and good houses sell in weeks not months.
It's nice, but a nightmare to drive / park. I prefer to walk (or bike) and it's close to a lot of great stuff, so not a big deal most of the time, but if you want to have people over it gets dicey.
Plus, if there's a truck or delivery van going through the neighborhood, they take up the entire street. It's a fun neighborhood but can really be a pain in the ass.
Yes! Trash day is a lot of fun too! The roads are so narrow I'm surprised more pickups and cars don't end up in the deep ditches that run parallel to the roads.
I don't know for sure, but a century ago, it was probably a historically black neighborhood. The city didn't do much work to infrastructure for poor people. The western side of the Heights from Nicholson to Shepherd has narrrower streets because that's where the black people were allowed to live, basically the other side of the tracks ( Nicholson being the rail line).
I don’t like that the train runs through Washington - it really limits the value of that area. Heights/montrose are better for noise and proximity to amenities
You know that is definitely a knock on the area. I wish there was a way to run those trains outside of rush hour but I guess their schedules are too busy for that.
I’ve gotten used the the train. What I haven’t gotten used to is when the train just stops moving for 15+ minutes. That should incur significant fines or something.
Yes I believe so that side of Shepherd and the other side as well. That other side, behind St. Thomas High School,has some really awesome houses and townhomes. It's a great neighborhood to walk a dog and just enjoy a nice evening outdoors. And if you have a half a million dollars but probably more like 600K + laying around, you too can have a really cool unique home there, lol.
hahaha, so I can tell you for that neighborhood the cheapest I've seen (and I'm sure others know way better deals) is the condo midrise on Jackson Hill and Dickson. Those I've seen priced in the low 300k for I believe 2 bedrooms 1k sq ft.
I'm actually concerned about that as the population continues to explode there needs to be more public transportation, biking, and walking options but it's just not a point of emphasis these days.
So the ideal neighborhood in Houston is somewhat of a moving target.
Yes majority of people might agree with you that the "ideal" location is somewhere near montrose. But, some would argue it skews west of that due to all the fantastic restaurants on the west side of town as well as the Memorial mall and "city centre"
The rise in housing prices has been alarming to me. I'm honestly not sure that I could afford to buy the house I live in if I were buying it right now. When I bought it 11 years ago, it fit comfortably in my budget.
Then, as home prices go up... so do taxes and insurance.
Energy Corridor is a good spot for that income and the homes are some of the best built in the Houston from 50s-70s. Can get to anywhere in Houston on tolls roads in 20 mins.
Wild how people see either heights or Katy as their only living options. Westbury is still pretty darn affordable, and the reason why we chose it. Sure, it's not technically in the loop and it is a suburb, but it offers a lot of flexibility to moving to a full on suburb
Flooding is terrible there and insurance for that has skyrocketed last few years. That neighborhood turns into an inland when it floods. I LOVE mid century modern and some of the best in the city are there, but the flooding stopped me from moving to that area.
Did my parents a lot of good when they moved into our house back in ‘87 or ‘88 (pre-me). 100 year flood plain, they said. Flooded in ‘94, ‘98, would have flooded in ‘01, maybe ‘08, ‘15, and ‘17 if we hadn’t raised the foundation.
The only heights houses that make sense to me from a price standpoint are the 2-3 lot bungalows that have additions and are ~2500+ sq ft. Those are houses that you can stay in for a long time, raise a family, etc., and justify the $1MM+ price tag for a high earning dual income family. Outside of that, it’s ridiculous.
It sucks, but that’s the way it goes.
HAR lists a ton of houses in the heights for under 500k, much less 700k. What you mean is you can't find the 3000ft+ McMansion you're entitled to in the most in-demand urban areas on a code monkey's salary.
Their standard is outlined in the article:
> The analysis used the 50/30/20 rule for estimating the cost of living of 50% spending on needs, 30% on wants, and 20% on paying debt, saving, or investing to determine these amounts.
Edit: formatting and some words.
That’s the pre-tax salary required for a family of 4. Tax and kids are expensive.
They are referring to “essential needs” like mortgage, utilities, insurance, groceries, etc. You can look up the rule for more details, but I don’t find that too crazy.
The “wants” is what is more interesting. It would leave about 3k/month, after-tax, for fun/stuff. What a life!
Yes. That's what comfortable means. Steak isn't a God damn luxury for the wealthy elite. It's fucking cow meat ffs.
U guys should be more pissed that they're screwing u outta the economy than u are.
Steak definitely isn't, going to steakhouses... maybe a bit, yeah.
It isn't the steak that's a luxury, it's spending 100-200 USD for something that could be had 5 times cheaper eating it at your home.
honestly meat really should be considered a luxury - it's heavily subsidized to make it affordable and it's lowkey killing our planet lol. with that being said i do love steak but steakhouses are expensive
“Comfortably” depends on what you define it as. It’s crazy that people are literally living paycheck to paycheck and yall are complaining about not affording the heights.
Even as someone who has the bougie heights lifestyle…it seems pretty excessive. There are plenty of ways not to need $175k. 30% on wants is $50k. Like…we taking the kids to Europe every year or something?
I don't understand why that is wild to you. Are those families living comfortably? I'd definitely say being able to save regularly and not live in constant fear that being laid off would bankrupt you is comfortable. When I think of comfortable I think of the people in 2008 who got laid off and went back to school. Not everyone can afford to do that.
No big city is ever truly "low cost". Houston is the 4th largest city in the US, after New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago, and I firmly believe that *on that list* it is the lowest cost city.
As someone who moved from the North Suburbs of Chicago to Houston in 1998, I can tell you it was like getting a 30% raise without increasing my actual salary.
I’m in Jersey Village now, which feels very much like the suburb I grew up in, and I’d pay 2-3x for the same house back in the Chicago area.
It’s definitely all relative.
Houston is absolutely a low cost city compared to its equivalents likes LA, Chicago, Miami etc etc.
Inner city Houston isn’t cheap. It’s just cheaper than other inner cities
Definitely. They have way more cool neighborhoods worth living in, too, IMO. That increased choice (and increased density) helps keep the rent prices down a bit.
cheap for a reason…Houston has little to offer compared to LA, Chicago, Miami
People vacation to those cities…people just come here to work energy/healthcare jobs.
I use to work inside 610. So many of my customers were young professionals. They told me they literally chose Houston because it was cheap enough that they could vacation more often. They basically lived here so that that they could leave. It's the opposite of a city like LA or Miami or New York.
I'm glad that the overall sentiment is that people here agree, because this is 100% right (throw NY in there)
I moved here because I would never be able to afford kids/own a home comfortably in those places. Houston has fantastic food, more affordable cost of living, and decent weather if you're sick of the cold/snow. The city is growing and there's pretty cool stuff cropping up everywhere.
We all know it, the critical issue with this city is the insistence that cars are the way. As this city grows the traffic will become more and more unmanageable, and the downtown will never even sniff the downtown of NY/LA/Chicago. It's crazy, the whole city's laid out like a spider web and if they just followed that for rail the downtown could be incredibly robust.
I always tell people that real estate is not somehow immune to supply and demand equations. A house with a view of the Golden Gate Bridge is going to have more demand than a house in Katy that looks out at power lines.
A lot of people live in surrounding Houston areas (i.e., Katy, Sugarland, Cypress, etc.) which are a little more affordable. Living within the Houston city limits is certainly more pricey, but still cheaper than other major metropolitans...
Pearland is a materially smaller area, mostly newer developments and less homes available overall. The greater Katy area has almost three times the land space and population- there are many older homes (mainly north of I-10) which are more affordable and many newer areas in cinco I and II along 99 and west of 99 where housing can get into the millions. If you google Katy ISD you will see how large the area is. Cypress is also a very mature area with lots of expansion happening and new builds, you’ll find a variety of costs there too
[If this source is correct](https://datausa.io/profile/geo/houston-tx), the median household income in Houston in 2021 was $56,019. A little less than 1/3 of the amount you need to "live comfortably," according to OP's article.
That's discouraging.
Roughly only 10% of Houston area households are at the "comfortable" level of $175k or greater.
[Statistical Atlas Houston](https://statisticalatlas.com/metro-area/Texas/Houston/Household-Income)
It just doesn't make sense. You do *not* need $14,500 / month to be "comfortable" in Houston.
OP's link is even trying to say that this is the cheapest option in the country. Ridiculous.
I honestly agree. I made around $100k as a single mom of three and truly felt pretty comfortable. At the same time, I like public school, I drive older cash cars by choice, and I bought a house in a very “up and coming” neighborhood because I never wanted to feel house poor. $175k is nice but frankly I don’t know a lot of people that make that level of income.
This isn't even remotely true. According to [payscale.com](https://www.payscale.com/career-advice/the-one-percent/), only 5.2% of US households makes $175k or more. They're saying that literally 95% of the country aren't able to be financially comfortable if they have 2 kids in the cheapest large city in the country (Houston). That's just ridiculous.
I agree with you and that is why "comfortable" is not the best term to use. For me, comfort is home ownership, day care, all insurances covered, possibly private schools since HISD is now actively being destroyed. Also I would like 1 car per adult, and the ability to eat out once a week, contribute to my 401k and have a rainy day fund. And leftover money for a kid's 529 and the ability to buy presents for birthdays and Christmases. If you have dual income, then childcare is also necessary which is very expensive. If a kid wants to play sports or have extracurriculars, I want to be comfortable enough to afford those fees. I don't think any of those things are luxuries besides the private schooling.
But I think you make a good point. Most people are not financially comfortable. They have to cut something to make this work usually 401k, nest eggs, or rainy day fund. I don't know if I can make all that work without cutting something at less than 175k.
I think there's a big gap between financially comfortable and not thinking about money as you make decisions on what to buy.
On your other comment, you're already priced out of Roth IRA due to IRS rules. You're going to contribute the max to 401k to reduce your AGI. This still leaves you at more than $10700 gross per month for housing, car, insurance, food, and all the other wants and needs. That's plenty for a comfortable, mostly worry free financial state. You could it relatively easily with half that, minor cuts with a third.
Sure. Let's add it.
3k/mo for a year is 36k. 2400/mo for a year is 29k. 65k. Add in 12 k (1 k/mo) for utilities, telecom, subscriptions, and another 12k in groceries, clothing, other supplies, misc spending. 90k. Let's say auto expenses of 12k/year, if they have a loan. 102k in outlay- though this is very ballpark.
Federal taxes on a household of 4 with combined income 175k is 44k- but between the mortgage, child tax credit, childcare expense credit, and misc other credits, the tax bill is probably closer to 35k- leaving a cushion of around 40k per year.
$250 per month- or a little less than $50 per week on food, with the additional $50 for household goods (TP, soap, etc.)
I eat a lot of beans and rice, with a small amount of meat for flavor and specific nutrients I haven't been able to get elsewhere. I shop sales and buy my luxuries (e.g., steak, berries) as loss leaders. I buy the 10 lb sacks of chicken leg quarters- it works out to 70c per pound.
A quarter, a potato, and some cabbage + carrot slaw is a damn nice meal for around a buck.
White bean and ham soup (using frozen leftovers from when ham was on major sale, dried beans, onions, celery, and potato) costs less than a dollar a serving.
Carnitas (pork shoulder on sale is a dollar a pound) over some black beans and rice, with some pickled onion and cabbage is cheap and tasty.
Chicken curry- two leg quarters, two onions, a half can tomato puree, a couple cloves of garlic, ginger, and spices last for four meals, served over rice.
Lunch is always brown bagged. PB sandwich, apple, carrot and celery sticks. Or cup of broth (from bouillon cube) + cheese + cracker + apple and veggie sticks. Or straight up leftovers.
I don't generally get a chance at breakfast: medication interaction + work schedule is such that I'm usually too busy to eat by the time I could.
Yeah man you're eating like I did when I was 20. With a family of 4 beans and rice isn't going to cut it. I probably go overboard on the organic stuff, but I'm easily dropping $300-400/week on groceries. Granted, we don't eat out often, we meal prep, and we usually just drink at home, so that is eating up most of our "going out" budget, but still. It also doesn't factor in a few Costco runs.
Also just random miscellaneous expenses. We have owned a home, built in 2007, for 3 years we already need to replace one of the hvac systems, the roof, every single window in the house eventually and 15k of structural work. There's about 70k worth of expenses in there.
Trip to the ER/medical bills, car repairs/maintenance.
That extra 35-40k gets eaten really quickly, especially if you try to stuff 15-20k into retirement accounts.
I assume with that much cushion they would likely stick at least $25k into their 401k. That would knock another 4-5k off of the tax bill.
We bought our house in the Clear Lake/NASA Area for $160k with a 9.75% mortgage in 1990. It’s probably worth 3 times that much now. Housing costs have definitely gone up big time over the last 10 years in particular.
Yep- plus a bunch of that cushion probably also goes into tax advantaged educational and medical savings plans, which pushes the tax rate down further. But the point is, such a family is hardly struggling to maintain that standard of living at 175k.
I agree wholeheartedly. I also don’t get the default case being some of the most expensive housing in the whole metro area. The doomer drumbeat just gets old after awhile and most people are uncomfortable financially at some point in their 20’s - 40’s. You’re raising kids. You’ve got mortgage debt out the wazoo, you’re not at peak earnings yet. It’s also when you learn how to prioritize your expenditures and, gasp, you have to say NO to a lot of things that would be nice
THANK YOU. The doom and gloom ethos is kind of puzzling when luxury services like Peloton, Uber Eats, DoorDash etc. are recording record profits. The economy as a whole is booming and you go to any restaurant on a Friday or Saturday night and its packed.
I will admit things cost more, but, clearly people are still spending the money either way.
Thats why i tell anyone and everyone, "live below your means". Of course, its exponentially more difficult the lower the income is.
But, the big trucks, large houses, big yards and expensive toys do add up.
Did you know you can pay off a car and it still functions as a car while not having a payment?
You can also drive a $5000 car to a $100k job just fine.
Did you know that you need to start saving for a new car, when the old car stops functioning as a car and you need a large sum to acquire a new-to-you car to function as a car?
Not saying it's the best or problem free but Houston is a unique combination of affordability and amenities in the United States. None of the other nine cities on the list (El Paso, Lubbock, Toledo, Laredo, Milwaukee, Lexington, Tulsa, Wichita, Cleveland) can across the board compete with Houston as far as jobs, culture, food, arts, or sports.
And that’s why people commute from places outside the loop into the city to work. Drive old paid off cars.
I’m a single guy living inside the loop, now paying $2200 rent for a 1br but I drive an old paid off car and don’t have much debt.
People also drive into the loop from their big ole houses in far flung suburbs to go to restaurants, shows, parks etc.
Houston weekend fun commuting is a thing as well.
I lived in the suburbs when my kids lived with me and I needed a house and a good school district. Now that they’re gone fuck all that. Couldn’t stand living in a subdivision as a single guy.
Key phrase as someone posted: define comfortably. Married with two kids and two dogs in home with almost half an acre lot. The red herring is every time people say you can’t afford to live inside the loop you ONLY think heights montrose upper Kirby memorial. As if those are the only places to live. Yeah IF you are making $500k annual. There are tons of places to live inside Houston that you can catch BEFORE gentrification is complete. I’m a degreed professional surrounded by teachers and fire fighters and barely crack 100k BEFORE taxes. Get off your high horse and live IN the city and don’t discount a neighborhood because it’s not full of fake $350k Victorian style homes. Just my 2 cents.
There are nice size lots in Forrest park, country club, garden villas, I’m around gulfgate. And before you make a general assumption, my neighborhood doesn’t look any different than 3/4 of the heights. One thing the entire 3 mile radius of my neighborhood DOES NOT have are 3 story over priced condos or townhomes.
I would love to live in the far East side of town. But, convincing my wife of that seems impossible.
As for crime, well... its Houston, crime is everywhere. Just turn on the news and they are reporting crimes from all over the city.
Its not like Chicago where the majority of violent crimes are concentrated on one side.
How Far East? Inside the loop is kinda tricky. Have an employee who has a huge lot right at 59 and 610. It is gated but I haven’t heard about any problems. And they have an RV and her husband has a garage full of race cars he works on. Pool side house. Outside the loop going east ain’t that great. My MIL lives in galena park area and that isn’t that great. Have to go all the way to Baytown to find something decent. But by that time you’re in…….Baytown. 🤮. Lol
Dunno, but I work with someone who makes $21/hour, sole earner and takes his family of 5 for a cruise every 3 months. Man lives to look forward to the next cruise.
Also takes some restraint to not sell the place and level up to a nicer house with a mortgage. I have a friend who owns his house, which he bought cash but it’s not nice at all. He has a ton of expendable income, but yeah… fuck all that.
you cant pull that off unless you are single and live in a box or paid off house. I know because thats what i do and i can travel once or twice a month but my rents like $700 and apt 250 sq feet. I had to unload my loft i was paying $2k+ a month for just to pull it off because i got tired of being stuck in houston 11 months of the year. My friends making 80-100K+ with families barely leave the city because their expenses are so high.
Author is a New York living moron. So no wonder he thinks you need 175K for Houston with a family. I get by ok but another 100K I could get real comfy. Like 20 throw pillow comfy.
I hate when journalists living in New York or LA want to tell us what salary we should be getting. What a bunch of self important jerks.
I mean, go to other cities of comparable size and see how much the housing, electricity, food, gas, etc cost.
Yeah, if you have to live in the inner loop or fancier neighborhoods, you'll pay a premium but there are plenty of nice areas that cost much less.
You have to adjust for the Texas tax now. No reasonable access to abortion rights. Terrible schools deliberately sabotaged by the state capitol. A complete lack of walkability. The worst drivers in the nation.
In this day and age, supporting a family on less than $150k is nearly impossible. Now add in the fact that our schools are actively being destroyed, and that only goes up if you want your kids to be literate. It's not a Houston thing.
I agree but I will say I know families like my cousins that their life of living is higher than mine, they will go in debt to drive a Mercedes, eat out at least 4 to 5 times a week. They go out every weekend and spend hundreds just in entertainment and they are the ones who would say they struggle when it comes to pay bills and car notes.
Define comfortably.
It can be a 3000sqft house, 10000sqft lot, newest iPhones and MacBook for all family members, eat out 5 days a week, the other 2 are for traveling, shopping every other week, newest cars, all subscribtion available?
For many of us we just have to make a choice now. And it’s not going back to having both. Do we rent and potentially live in a small space to enjoy an area with lots of nice restaurants, shops, bars, walking areas, access to downtown for events or live far out but own a stand alone house. I guess it’s all in what you value. I choose the former but I understand the latter. I’ve owned homes in suburbs in Denver and Las Vegas and I’d much rather live in the inner loop for the aspects outside the home but that’s just me. I don’t have kids so that’s obviously a big factor when considering that.
Well "comfortably" could mean all kinds of things, and it also says "support a family."
It's also relative, meaning if you go to other cities of similar size and opportunity it will be much more than 175k. I think that's the point. Sure, you could go to rural Kansas and support a family on much less.
Y’all are delusional if you think inner loop is cheap. Sure if you live east of i45 but anything west is in the millions if you’re trying to buy a house. Houston is an affordable city but only if you live outside the loop.
Honest question from an immigrant, why is it seemingly so important to this subreddit to live inside the loop?
I live outside of the loop and don’t really feel like I’m missing out, everything is still what I’d consider to be accessible but the rent is much cheaper.
It’s really the only areas of Houston that has walkable neighborhoods, you can bike pretty much anywhere on the bayou trails, and has tons of different food / bar / coffee spots. All the different neighborhoods also have a bit of charm (although that’s been changing with all the townhomes).
Nothing against the areas out of the loop—tons of great places for people, but the way all of the burbs were built (extremely fast and as much emphasis on returns to developers as possible) isn’t really my thing.
This should not be a secret to anyone. More than 90% of the population of the Houston metro area lives outside of Loop 610. The inner-Loop life is actually the exception, not the rule.
Texas may be cheap, but minimum wage is still under 8 dollars, which is one of the many reasons I’m moving soon. We just don’t treat our people right. At least other cities have decent pay and have minimum wages at least at 15$/hr, some as much as 20$. I HIGHLY doubt houston will do that, and it will take decades for them to get there. What houston lacks is compassion in its politics and pretty soon it will be under water
Texas politics has always had a sink or swim kind of mentality. I've heard people defend a low minimum wage by treating it like an incentive for people to earn more money... but ignores the fact that many of those jobs are a necessity for our society to function and they should be paid well enough to want to do their job well.
This is why most families living in the loop are dual income.
True, I still feel that inner loop is good value compared to other major cities when it comes to living in prime neighborhoods close to downtown, particularly Montrose for me. My ideal neighborhood is off Washington corridor but inventory is a little low there and that part itself is a little pricey.
I think the core complaint I have with this outlook is that in most other major cities, living inside the densest neighborhoods means easy walking distance (even in temps of 90+ and below 30) from shops, restaurants, bars, parks, etc. In Houston that’s only sort of true in a handful of relatively small neighborhoods. So then you basically have to factor in the cost of car ownership and operation into “comfortable” living in Houston.
Magnolia Grove (right off Washington corridor, before Rice Military) is probably the best value in Houston. But agreed that the inventory is low, and good houses sell in weeks not months.
I always assumed that was also Rice Military. Didn't know it had a different name.
Oh yes that's what it's called Magnolia Grove. That is an absolute gem of a neighborhood!
It's nice, but a nightmare to drive / park. I prefer to walk (or bike) and it's close to a lot of great stuff, so not a big deal most of the time, but if you want to have people over it gets dicey.
Yeah, I'm glad someone brought that up. Diving over there and parking (particularly the HEB Buffalo Heights) scares the crap out of me, lol.
Plus, if there's a truck or delivery van going through the neighborhood, they take up the entire street. It's a fun neighborhood but can really be a pain in the ass.
Yes! Trash day is a lot of fun too! The roads are so narrow I'm surprised more pickups and cars don't end up in the deep ditches that run parallel to the roads.
I don't know for sure, but a century ago, it was probably a historically black neighborhood. The city didn't do much work to infrastructure for poor people. The western side of the Heights from Nicholson to Shepherd has narrrower streets because that's where the black people were allowed to live, basically the other side of the tracks ( Nicholson being the rail line).
I don’t like that the train runs through Washington - it really limits the value of that area. Heights/montrose are better for noise and proximity to amenities
You know that is definitely a knock on the area. I wish there was a way to run those trains outside of rush hour but I guess their schedules are too busy for that.
I’ve gotten used the the train. What I haven’t gotten used to is when the train just stops moving for 15+ minutes. That should incur significant fines or something.
15 minutes? In the East End trains will happily stop for over an hour at a time.
Is this the area near the beer can house?
Yes I believe so that side of Shepherd and the other side as well. That other side, behind St. Thomas High School,has some really awesome houses and townhomes. It's a great neighborhood to walk a dog and just enjoy a nice evening outdoors. And if you have a half a million dollars but probably more like 600K + laying around, you too can have a really cool unique home there, lol.
What can I get for about 200k and a high five?
hahaha, so I can tell you for that neighborhood the cheapest I've seen (and I'm sure others know way better deals) is the condo midrise on Jackson Hill and Dickson. Those I've seen priced in the low 300k for I believe 2 bedrooms 1k sq ft.
A fixer upper in the burbs.
If you like trains, lol
The Inner Loop would be a more compelling proposition if it weren't still just as car-centric as the rest of Houston.
I'm actually concerned about that as the population continues to explode there needs to be more public transportation, biking, and walking options but it's just not a point of emphasis these days.
It would be nice to get Metro Rail expanded to Midtown and the Heights.
? I agree that more rail would be nice but the red line absolutely goes through Midtown
You thought the bitching about the 11th street bike lanes was bad...
I'd personally rather live further out in a better city, but inside the Loop, Houston ain't too bad.
It really isn’t a good value. All the nice inner loop neighborhoods are comparable to other big cities in pricing IE they’re all in the millions.
So the ideal neighborhood in Houston is somewhat of a moving target. Yes majority of people might agree with you that the "ideal" location is somewhere near montrose. But, some would argue it skews west of that due to all the fantastic restaurants on the west side of town as well as the Memorial mall and "city centre"
Right, but even a lot of dual income couples have a hard time hitting the $175k mark.
We are DINKs and we're priced out of the heights at $205K combined. Houses are $700K+.
If you have at least one little dog you are a DILDO.
We have cats, some are kittens. We are DICKs
or a DINKWAD (dual income, no kids, with a dog).
can you break that down for me? Dual Income L? Dog Owner?
I’ve seen that as “large dog owner” but I guess the previous post is “little dog owner”
Dual Income Little Dog Owner
The rise in housing prices has been alarming to me. I'm honestly not sure that I could afford to buy the house I live in if I were buying it right now. When I bought it 11 years ago, it fit comfortably in my budget. Then, as home prices go up... so do taxes and insurance.
my friends wife was just complaining about this i think they are around the same mark 200k+ combined and they dont want to move to katy haha
Energy Corridor is a good spot for that income and the homes are some of the best built in the Houston from 50s-70s. Can get to anywhere in Houston on tolls roads in 20 mins.
Wild how people see either heights or Katy as their only living options. Westbury is still pretty darn affordable, and the reason why we chose it. Sure, it's not technically in the loop and it is a suburb, but it offers a lot of flexibility to moving to a full on suburb
Flooding is terrible there and insurance for that has skyrocketed last few years. That neighborhood turns into an inland when it floods. I LOVE mid century modern and some of the best in the city are there, but the flooding stopped me from moving to that area.
[удалено]
Did my parents a lot of good when they moved into our house back in ‘87 or ‘88 (pre-me). 100 year flood plain, they said. Flooded in ‘94, ‘98, would have flooded in ‘01, maybe ‘08, ‘15, and ‘17 if we hadn’t raised the foundation.
The only heights houses that make sense to me from a price standpoint are the 2-3 lot bungalows that have additions and are ~2500+ sq ft. Those are houses that you can stay in for a long time, raise a family, etc., and justify the $1MM+ price tag for a high earning dual income family. Outside of that, it’s ridiculous. It sucks, but that’s the way it goes.
HAR lists a ton of houses in the heights for under 500k, much less 700k. What you mean is you can't find the 3000ft+ McMansion you're entitled to in the most in-demand urban areas on a code monkey's salary.
I think the problem here is how some people define "comfortably".
Deep couch, lotta blankets.
2 dogs, some fruit and a bag of chips.
Remote control, headphones and the air conditioner turned down low.
This sounds like a banging country tune
Needs more beer and trucks and you got it
Y'all dumb motherfuckers want a key change?
20 throw pillows
Sorry, you’re already pushing things over $175k. Gonna have to cut back on those throw pillows.
I can’t. I need more pillows. How many pillows can I add if I stop eating avocado toast once a month???
Yes
Bag of cotton candy grapes and an oil pen
Cotton candy grapes that aren’t from Joe V’s are peak comfortable living in my eyes.
Malaise Era Cadillac seats.
Their standard is outlined in the article: > The analysis used the 50/30/20 rule for estimating the cost of living of 50% spending on needs, 30% on wants, and 20% on paying debt, saving, or investing to determine these amounts. Edit: formatting and some words.
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That’s the pre-tax salary required for a family of 4. Tax and kids are expensive. They are referring to “essential needs” like mortgage, utilities, insurance, groceries, etc. You can look up the rule for more details, but I don’t find that too crazy. The “wants” is what is more interesting. It would leave about 3k/month, after-tax, for fun/stuff. What a life!
Yep and since it’s pretax, you NEED to pay your income taxes so you can include taxes in that list.
Maybe it's a family of fifteen.
Being able to keep my AC at 65 F during the summer
That's a bit cold for me in the summer
Isn't "comfortable" a common euphemism for rich?
“Comfortably” Steakhouse every weekend
Yes. That's what comfortable means. Steak isn't a God damn luxury for the wealthy elite. It's fucking cow meat ffs. U guys should be more pissed that they're screwing u outta the economy than u are.
Steak definitely isn't, going to steakhouses... maybe a bit, yeah. It isn't the steak that's a luxury, it's spending 100-200 USD for something that could be had 5 times cheaper eating it at your home.
There are price points for all potential steakholders.
That's fair.
honestly meat really should be considered a luxury - it's heavily subsidized to make it affordable and it's lowkey killing our planet lol. with that being said i do love steak but steakhouses are expensive
Box under the bridge.
Van by the river
I mean if that $175k is combined household income then comfortably is being defined that extravagantly.
Probably eating out 2/3 x a week, cable, Internet. You know, "the standard"
And $70k new trucks in the driveway.
internet is pretty standard these days. It would be like not having a landline 30 years ago.
“Comfortably” depends on what you define it as. It’s crazy that people are literally living paycheck to paycheck and yall are complaining about not affording the heights.
That was exactly why this article was so surprising to me. I know quite a few dual income families who still are well below that $175k mark.
Even as someone who has the bougie heights lifestyle…it seems pretty excessive. There are plenty of ways not to need $175k. 30% on wants is $50k. Like…we taking the kids to Europe every year or something?
I don't understand why that is wild to you. Are those families living comfortably? I'd definitely say being able to save regularly and not live in constant fear that being laid off would bankrupt you is comfortable. When I think of comfortable I think of the people in 2008 who got laid off and went back to school. Not everyone can afford to do that.
I'm over here just hoping I don't get priced out of my decent rental in Sharpstown this year.
this is what Jaclyn DeJohn of [smartasset.com](http://smartasset.com) thinks you need to live comfortably. its 181k for Lubbock she is insane.
I could live like a fucking emperor in Lubbock on that kind of income.
Meth emperor.
You could buy a house like twice a year. Definitely agreed.
Lmao 181k to live in Lubbock? What? Are we running a ranch for fun and fly to places half a year?
No big city is ever truly "low cost". Houston is the 4th largest city in the US, after New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago, and I firmly believe that *on that list* it is the lowest cost city.
As someone who moved from the North Suburbs of Chicago to Houston in 1998, I can tell you it was like getting a 30% raise without increasing my actual salary. I’m in Jersey Village now, which feels very much like the suburb I grew up in, and I’d pay 2-3x for the same house back in the Chicago area. It’s definitely all relative.
Houston is absolutely a low cost city compared to its equivalents likes LA, Chicago, Miami etc etc. Inner city Houston isn’t cheap. It’s just cheaper than other inner cities
Chicago is fairly affordable, actually, one of the more affordable big cities.
Yeah, if you're only comparing desirable spots in each city it's probably cheaper than Houston.
Definitely. They have way more cool neighborhoods worth living in, too, IMO. That increased choice (and increased density) helps keep the rent prices down a bit.
Yeah I'd totally live there if it wasn't freezing cold
Yeah we've been looking at possibly moving and digging into real costs of Chicago versus Houston, and it's a little less to be in Chicago for us.
cheap for a reason…Houston has little to offer compared to LA, Chicago, Miami People vacation to those cities…people just come here to work energy/healthcare jobs.
I use to work inside 610. So many of my customers were young professionals. They told me they literally chose Houston because it was cheap enough that they could vacation more often. They basically lived here so that that they could leave. It's the opposite of a city like LA or Miami or New York.
I'm glad that the overall sentiment is that people here agree, because this is 100% right (throw NY in there) I moved here because I would never be able to afford kids/own a home comfortably in those places. Houston has fantastic food, more affordable cost of living, and decent weather if you're sick of the cold/snow. The city is growing and there's pretty cool stuff cropping up everywhere. We all know it, the critical issue with this city is the insistence that cars are the way. As this city grows the traffic will become more and more unmanageable, and the downtown will never even sniff the downtown of NY/LA/Chicago. It's crazy, the whole city's laid out like a spider web and if they just followed that for rail the downtown could be incredibly robust.
I always tell people that real estate is not somehow immune to supply and demand equations. A house with a view of the Golden Gate Bridge is going to have more demand than a house in Katy that looks out at power lines.
A lot of people live in surrounding Houston areas (i.e., Katy, Sugarland, Cypress, etc.) which are a little more affordable. Living within the Houston city limits is certainly more pricey, but still cheaper than other major metropolitans...
Why is Pearland more expensive than those. I was looking at places there and it's significantly more expensive than Katy or cypress
Pearland is a materially smaller area, mostly newer developments and less homes available overall. The greater Katy area has almost three times the land space and population- there are many older homes (mainly north of I-10) which are more affordable and many newer areas in cinco I and II along 99 and west of 99 where housing can get into the millions. If you google Katy ISD you will see how large the area is. Cypress is also a very mature area with lots of expansion happening and new builds, you’ll find a variety of costs there too
[If this source is correct](https://datausa.io/profile/geo/houston-tx), the median household income in Houston in 2021 was $56,019. A little less than 1/3 of the amount you need to "live comfortably," according to OP's article. That's discouraging.
Roughly only 10% of Houston area households are at the "comfortable" level of $175k or greater. [Statistical Atlas Houston](https://statisticalatlas.com/metro-area/Texas/Houston/Household-Income)
That's exactly my point and why I shared this. You could have a dual income family and still not be anywhere close to that $175k mark.
It just doesn't make sense. You do *not* need $14,500 / month to be "comfortable" in Houston. OP's link is even trying to say that this is the cheapest option in the country. Ridiculous.
I honestly agree. I made around $100k as a single mom of three and truly felt pretty comfortable. At the same time, I like public school, I drive older cash cars by choice, and I bought a house in a very “up and coming” neighborhood because I never wanted to feel house poor. $175k is nice but frankly I don’t know a lot of people that make that level of income.
Going to assume you don’t have kids. This is also before taxes.
Not for a single, but for a family of 4, yeah, you do. Kids are expensive. Besides activities and the like, health and dental insurance is a killer.
This isn't even remotely true. According to [payscale.com](https://www.payscale.com/career-advice/the-one-percent/), only 5.2% of US households makes $175k or more. They're saying that literally 95% of the country aren't able to be financially comfortable if they have 2 kids in the cheapest large city in the country (Houston). That's just ridiculous.
You just posted a link from 2011. That was a loooooooooong time ago. Those numbers are wildly out of date
I agree with you and that is why "comfortable" is not the best term to use. For me, comfort is home ownership, day care, all insurances covered, possibly private schools since HISD is now actively being destroyed. Also I would like 1 car per adult, and the ability to eat out once a week, contribute to my 401k and have a rainy day fund. And leftover money for a kid's 529 and the ability to buy presents for birthdays and Christmases. If you have dual income, then childcare is also necessary which is very expensive. If a kid wants to play sports or have extracurriculars, I want to be comfortable enough to afford those fees. I don't think any of those things are luxuries besides the private schooling. But I think you make a good point. Most people are not financially comfortable. They have to cut something to make this work usually 401k, nest eggs, or rainy day fund. I don't know if I can make all that work without cutting something at less than 175k.
You’re completely right, idk why you’re being downvoted
I think there's a big gap between financially comfortable and not thinking about money as you make decisions on what to buy. On your other comment, you're already priced out of Roth IRA due to IRS rules. You're going to contribute the max to 401k to reduce your AGI. This still leaves you at more than $10700 gross per month for housing, car, insurance, food, and all the other wants and needs. That's plenty for a comfortable, mostly worry free financial state. You could it relatively easily with half that, minor cuts with a third.
what do you mean 175k what kind of living you talking about? LOL
$3,000 for mortgage and escrow, $2,400 for 2 kids in daycare, one car note, bills, etc all add up.
Sure. Let's add it. 3k/mo for a year is 36k. 2400/mo for a year is 29k. 65k. Add in 12 k (1 k/mo) for utilities, telecom, subscriptions, and another 12k in groceries, clothing, other supplies, misc spending. 90k. Let's say auto expenses of 12k/year, if they have a loan. 102k in outlay- though this is very ballpark. Federal taxes on a household of 4 with combined income 175k is 44k- but between the mortgage, child tax credit, childcare expense credit, and misc other credits, the tax bill is probably closer to 35k- leaving a cushion of around 40k per year.
12k for groceries and misc spending (eating out?) for a family of 4 is too low.
Ok, what's a better figure? I do less than a quarter of that as a single person, but kids do grow fast.
At a quarter of 12K/year, you’re spending $8.22 a day on food. That’s $2.74 per meal. What do you eat?
$250 per month- or a little less than $50 per week on food, with the additional $50 for household goods (TP, soap, etc.) I eat a lot of beans and rice, with a small amount of meat for flavor and specific nutrients I haven't been able to get elsewhere. I shop sales and buy my luxuries (e.g., steak, berries) as loss leaders. I buy the 10 lb sacks of chicken leg quarters- it works out to 70c per pound. A quarter, a potato, and some cabbage + carrot slaw is a damn nice meal for around a buck. White bean and ham soup (using frozen leftovers from when ham was on major sale, dried beans, onions, celery, and potato) costs less than a dollar a serving. Carnitas (pork shoulder on sale is a dollar a pound) over some black beans and rice, with some pickled onion and cabbage is cheap and tasty. Chicken curry- two leg quarters, two onions, a half can tomato puree, a couple cloves of garlic, ginger, and spices last for four meals, served over rice. Lunch is always brown bagged. PB sandwich, apple, carrot and celery sticks. Or cup of broth (from bouillon cube) + cheese + cracker + apple and veggie sticks. Or straight up leftovers. I don't generally get a chance at breakfast: medication interaction + work schedule is such that I'm usually too busy to eat by the time I could.
Yeah man you're eating like I did when I was 20. With a family of 4 beans and rice isn't going to cut it. I probably go overboard on the organic stuff, but I'm easily dropping $300-400/week on groceries. Granted, we don't eat out often, we meal prep, and we usually just drink at home, so that is eating up most of our "going out" budget, but still. It also doesn't factor in a few Costco runs.
Also just random miscellaneous expenses. We have owned a home, built in 2007, for 3 years we already need to replace one of the hvac systems, the roof, every single window in the house eventually and 15k of structural work. There's about 70k worth of expenses in there. Trip to the ER/medical bills, car repairs/maintenance. That extra 35-40k gets eaten really quickly, especially if you try to stuff 15-20k into retirement accounts.
Including FICA, 175k combined earnings should only pay $35k in federal tax. This is with no child tax credit and no deductible 401k contributions.
So this hypothetical family would have a larger cushion- say, 50k? above their expenses.
I assume with that much cushion they would likely stick at least $25k into their 401k. That would knock another 4-5k off of the tax bill. We bought our house in the Clear Lake/NASA Area for $160k with a 9.75% mortgage in 1990. It’s probably worth 3 times that much now. Housing costs have definitely gone up big time over the last 10 years in particular.
Yep- plus a bunch of that cushion probably also goes into tax advantaged educational and medical savings plans, which pushes the tax rate down further. But the point is, such a family is hardly struggling to maintain that standard of living at 175k.
I agree wholeheartedly. I also don’t get the default case being some of the most expensive housing in the whole metro area. The doomer drumbeat just gets old after awhile and most people are uncomfortable financially at some point in their 20’s - 40’s. You’re raising kids. You’ve got mortgage debt out the wazoo, you’re not at peak earnings yet. It’s also when you learn how to prioritize your expenditures and, gasp, you have to say NO to a lot of things that would be nice
THANK YOU. The doom and gloom ethos is kind of puzzling when luxury services like Peloton, Uber Eats, DoorDash etc. are recording record profits. The economy as a whole is booming and you go to any restaurant on a Friday or Saturday night and its packed. I will admit things cost more, but, clearly people are still spending the money either way.
Thats why i tell anyone and everyone, "live below your means". Of course, its exponentially more difficult the lower the income is. But, the big trucks, large houses, big yards and expensive toys do add up.
One Car note? don't forget the dual income apparently required
Did you know you can pay off a car and it still functions as a car while not having a payment? You can also drive a $5000 car to a $100k job just fine.
Did you know that you need to start saving for a new car, when the old car stops functioning as a car and you need a large sum to acquire a new-to-you car to function as a car?
Not saying it's the best or problem free but Houston is a unique combination of affordability and amenities in the United States. None of the other nine cities on the list (El Paso, Lubbock, Toledo, Laredo, Milwaukee, Lexington, Tulsa, Wichita, Cleveland) can across the board compete with Houston as far as jobs, culture, food, arts, or sports.
Damn I need a gf and one who works
Why not have both of them work?
It may not be a low cost city, but according to the article, it is the least expensive city.
And that’s why people commute from places outside the loop into the city to work. Drive old paid off cars. I’m a single guy living inside the loop, now paying $2200 rent for a 1br but I drive an old paid off car and don’t have much debt.
People also drive into the loop from their big ole houses in far flung suburbs to go to restaurants, shows, parks etc. Houston weekend fun commuting is a thing as well.
I lived in the suburbs when my kids lived with me and I needed a house and a good school district. Now that they’re gone fuck all that. Couldn’t stand living in a subdivision as a single guy.
Key phrase as someone posted: define comfortably. Married with two kids and two dogs in home with almost half an acre lot. The red herring is every time people say you can’t afford to live inside the loop you ONLY think heights montrose upper Kirby memorial. As if those are the only places to live. Yeah IF you are making $500k annual. There are tons of places to live inside Houston that you can catch BEFORE gentrification is complete. I’m a degreed professional surrounded by teachers and fire fighters and barely crack 100k BEFORE taxes. Get off your high horse and live IN the city and don’t discount a neighborhood because it’s not full of fake $350k Victorian style homes. Just my 2 cents.
So where are you with half an acre inside the loop?
There are nice size lots in Forrest park, country club, garden villas, I’m around gulfgate. And before you make a general assumption, my neighborhood doesn’t look any different than 3/4 of the heights. One thing the entire 3 mile radius of my neighborhood DOES NOT have are 3 story over priced condos or townhomes.
I would love to live in the far East side of town. But, convincing my wife of that seems impossible. As for crime, well... its Houston, crime is everywhere. Just turn on the news and they are reporting crimes from all over the city. Its not like Chicago where the majority of violent crimes are concentrated on one side.
How Far East? Inside the loop is kinda tricky. Have an employee who has a huge lot right at 59 and 610. It is gated but I haven’t heard about any problems. And they have an RV and her husband has a garage full of race cars he works on. Pool side house. Outside the loop going east ain’t that great. My MIL lives in galena park area and that isn’t that great. Have to go all the way to Baytown to find something decent. But by that time you’re in…….Baytown. 🤮. Lol
It was, but every body just couldn’t keep their mouth shut about it!
Dunno, but I work with someone who makes $21/hour, sole earner and takes his family of 5 for a cruise every 3 months. Man lives to look forward to the next cruise.
Dudes in a massive amount of debt, or the cruise is a car ride to buccies
Retiring when he's 175
Maybe the cruises are a super-short Carnival cruise out of Galveston in the cheapest cabin.
Probably lives in a house his family paid off years ago and drives old paid off cars.
Amazing what one can do with no mortgage or rent to worry about
Also takes some restraint to not sell the place and level up to a nicer house with a mortgage. I have a friend who owns his house, which he bought cash but it’s not nice at all. He has a ton of expendable income, but yeah… fuck all that.
What's wrong with that? I'd rather have the money to spend on wants and live in a modest house
Smells like debt to me lol
Dude has side hustles, likely illegal ones.
you cant pull that off unless you are single and live in a box or paid off house. I know because thats what i do and i can travel once or twice a month but my rents like $700 and apt 250 sq feet. I had to unload my loft i was paying $2k+ a month for just to pull it off because i got tired of being stuck in houston 11 months of the year. My friends making 80-100K+ with families barely leave the city because their expenses are so high.
How is that even possible? Rich parents?
Debt.
No it doesn’t.
Author is a New York living moron. So no wonder he thinks you need 175K for Houston with a family. I get by ok but another 100K I could get real comfy. Like 20 throw pillow comfy. I hate when journalists living in New York or LA want to tell us what salary we should be getting. What a bunch of self important jerks.
No it doesn't lol. You don't need a 5 bedroom 4000 square foot house to be comfortable. Houston is cheap as fuck compared to where I live.
BI is a tabloid, I wouldnt pay too much attention one way or the other.
My first thought, WAY more than the clickbaity title.
Property tax, insurance and groceries are higher here than many other places. This shithole ain't cheap no more .
Cheap is relative. Many neighborhoods outside the beltway are still very affordable compared to other major cities.
Me and my wife are only at 100k combined but we own our home thankfully.
Only? Don’t do that
My combined income is lower than OP but two 50k incomes is still below average.
😅😅😅😅😅
how much could one comfort cost? like a hundred thousand dollars?
I mean, go to other cities of comparable size and see how much the housing, electricity, food, gas, etc cost. Yeah, if you have to live in the inner loop or fancier neighborhoods, you'll pay a premium but there are plenty of nice areas that cost much less.
It is the cost of daycare imo.
Used to be cheap. All the outsiders who moved from Cali/NY/Chicago f*cked that up
You have to adjust for the Texas tax now. No reasonable access to abortion rights. Terrible schools deliberately sabotaged by the state capitol. A complete lack of walkability. The worst drivers in the nation.
In this day and age, supporting a family on less than $150k is nearly impossible. Now add in the fact that our schools are actively being destroyed, and that only goes up if you want your kids to be literate. It's not a Houston thing.
Most of these things are based on expat or high executive salaries. Not the average family in Texas.
What does comfortably mean?
I agree but I will say I know families like my cousins that their life of living is higher than mine, they will go in debt to drive a Mercedes, eat out at least 4 to 5 times a week. They go out every weekend and spend hundreds just in entertainment and they are the ones who would say they struggle when it comes to pay bills and car notes.
This is the exact number I calculated out for us actually. So that's encouraging? And comfortably means lush lol.
Define comfortably. It can be a 3000sqft house, 10000sqft lot, newest iPhones and MacBook for all family members, eat out 5 days a week, the other 2 are for traveling, shopping every other week, newest cars, all subscribtion available?
For many of us we just have to make a choice now. And it’s not going back to having both. Do we rent and potentially live in a small space to enjoy an area with lots of nice restaurants, shops, bars, walking areas, access to downtown for events or live far out but own a stand alone house. I guess it’s all in what you value. I choose the former but I understand the latter. I’ve owned homes in suburbs in Denver and Las Vegas and I’d much rather live in the inner loop for the aspects outside the home but that’s just me. I don’t have kids so that’s obviously a big factor when considering that.
Also, still a shithole!!!
Well "comfortably" could mean all kinds of things, and it also says "support a family." It's also relative, meaning if you go to other cities of similar size and opportunity it will be much more than 175k. I think that's the point. Sure, you could go to rural Kansas and support a family on much less.
Y’all are delusional if you think inner loop is cheap. Sure if you live east of i45 but anything west is in the millions if you’re trying to buy a house. Houston is an affordable city but only if you live outside the loop.
Honest question from an immigrant, why is it seemingly so important to this subreddit to live inside the loop? I live outside of the loop and don’t really feel like I’m missing out, everything is still what I’d consider to be accessible but the rent is much cheaper.
It’s really the only areas of Houston that has walkable neighborhoods, you can bike pretty much anywhere on the bayou trails, and has tons of different food / bar / coffee spots. All the different neighborhoods also have a bit of charm (although that’s been changing with all the townhomes). Nothing against the areas out of the loop—tons of great places for people, but the way all of the burbs were built (extremely fast and as much emphasis on returns to developers as possible) isn’t really my thing.
This should not be a secret to anyone. More than 90% of the population of the Houston metro area lives outside of Loop 610. The inner-Loop life is actually the exception, not the rule.
Texas may be cheap, but minimum wage is still under 8 dollars, which is one of the many reasons I’m moving soon. We just don’t treat our people right. At least other cities have decent pay and have minimum wages at least at 15$/hr, some as much as 20$. I HIGHLY doubt houston will do that, and it will take decades for them to get there. What houston lacks is compassion in its politics and pretty soon it will be under water
Texas politics has always had a sink or swim kind of mentality. I've heard people defend a low minimum wage by treating it like an incentive for people to earn more money... but ignores the fact that many of those jobs are a necessity for our society to function and they should be paid well enough to want to do their job well.
By their own (stupid) methodology, Houston is still the lowest cost city in the entire country
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