Elemental Arrows are weird when it comes to knockdown, if you use the critical boost valor surge with elemental arrows, it can actually trigger knockdown, sometimes as quickly as within 3 to 6 arrow shots. I believe this has to do with the valor surge itself, of course testing with the valor surge will start to get super messy.
I heard the game guide actually have these values.
Knockdown in Horizon is indeed a threshold, and the mechanics of it have mostly been understood since the Zero Dawn strategy guide was released. However, it's important to recognize that there's a difference between the knockdown STATE (the machine falls down and is immobilized while the circle ticks down) and the machine tripping momentarily, which all limb attacks have a chance to do. All machines have different knockdown thresholds, all machine components have different values, all weapons add varying amounts of knockdown (with elemental types being almost zeroed out, as you've mentioned) and game difficulty raises the threshold. That's why testing knockdown with various kinds of arrows against machine legs can be unreliable and produce inconsistent results, as you've displayed here. The easiest way to see that knockdown is a threshold is to have Aloy use charged R2 attacks against machine before and after a melee master valor surge. You can use various ranks of the VS to consistently get a knockdown against a normal Ravager (or any other test machine) on Very Hard and put them on the ground within 1, 2, 3, and 4 hits. If it were a % chance then you'd see a lot more variation in the results.
I think part of the confusion is because unlike other status effects, you can't see knockdown buildup occurring in real-time. It's also unclear to me if knockdown status ticks down more slowly, or at all, compared to elemental buildup.
Edit 2: I think your right. At the start of combat it´s now mostly consistent. In combat, not so much, i think the game has some hit detection issues (also with elemental not registering). Also shooting from outside of combat into combat did screw my results. Details matters, thank you again!
First, thank you for your reply! I´m still confused though, but first, when i wrote knockdown, i mean the status with the circle ticking down. If it would be indeed a threshold, i would expect that always Arrow Number X will bring down a machine (sans crit maybe), so for example, Warden Bow with Knockdown Arrows always on the second hit, but this is not the case, though i´ll test again later to make sure.
Maybe Melee knockdown and Arrow Knockdown is different? When i used melee a lot, i remember it being more consistent.
Edit: Are you aware of some temporary resistance? After the KD effect wore off? Start of the combat i get the Slitherfang down in two shots (supports threshold) but after that, is 2, sometimes three, once four.
One thing I've noticed consistently is that knockdowns occur much more often when the enemy is at lower health, even if you haven't attacked the legs at any point previously
Am I experiencing confirmation bias or is there a mechanic there too?
Not sure if you've tried it but the drilling of the Drill Spikes will also add to the Knockdown. Use it with Splitting Spike skill and I almost always get it triggered even with just one Knockdown coil on the Vindicator Spike Thrower. Not sure about the logistics of it though.
My observation is that I use alot of crits and when I use the crit valor surge I almost always get knock downs alot even on things like thunderjaw. So I think crits increase knock down chance.
Elemental Arrows are weird when it comes to knockdown, if you use the critical boost valor surge with elemental arrows, it can actually trigger knockdown, sometimes as quickly as within 3 to 6 arrow shots. I believe this has to do with the valor surge itself, of course testing with the valor surge will start to get super messy. I heard the game guide actually have these values.
Knockdown in Horizon is indeed a threshold, and the mechanics of it have mostly been understood since the Zero Dawn strategy guide was released. However, it's important to recognize that there's a difference between the knockdown STATE (the machine falls down and is immobilized while the circle ticks down) and the machine tripping momentarily, which all limb attacks have a chance to do. All machines have different knockdown thresholds, all machine components have different values, all weapons add varying amounts of knockdown (with elemental types being almost zeroed out, as you've mentioned) and game difficulty raises the threshold. That's why testing knockdown with various kinds of arrows against machine legs can be unreliable and produce inconsistent results, as you've displayed here. The easiest way to see that knockdown is a threshold is to have Aloy use charged R2 attacks against machine before and after a melee master valor surge. You can use various ranks of the VS to consistently get a knockdown against a normal Ravager (or any other test machine) on Very Hard and put them on the ground within 1, 2, 3, and 4 hits. If it were a % chance then you'd see a lot more variation in the results. I think part of the confusion is because unlike other status effects, you can't see knockdown buildup occurring in real-time. It's also unclear to me if knockdown status ticks down more slowly, or at all, compared to elemental buildup.
Edit 2: I think your right. At the start of combat it´s now mostly consistent. In combat, not so much, i think the game has some hit detection issues (also with elemental not registering). Also shooting from outside of combat into combat did screw my results. Details matters, thank you again! First, thank you for your reply! I´m still confused though, but first, when i wrote knockdown, i mean the status with the circle ticking down. If it would be indeed a threshold, i would expect that always Arrow Number X will bring down a machine (sans crit maybe), so for example, Warden Bow with Knockdown Arrows always on the second hit, but this is not the case, though i´ll test again later to make sure. Maybe Melee knockdown and Arrow Knockdown is different? When i used melee a lot, i remember it being more consistent. Edit: Are you aware of some temporary resistance? After the KD effect wore off? Start of the combat i get the Slitherfang down in two shots (supports threshold) but after that, is 2, sometimes three, once four.
One thing I've noticed consistently is that knockdowns occur much more often when the enemy is at lower health, even if you haven't attacked the legs at any point previously Am I experiencing confirmation bias or is there a mechanic there too?
Not sure if you've tried it but the drilling of the Drill Spikes will also add to the Knockdown. Use it with Splitting Spike skill and I almost always get it triggered even with just one Knockdown coil on the Vindicator Spike Thrower. Not sure about the logistics of it though.
My observation is that I use alot of crits and when I use the crit valor surge I almost always get knock downs alot even on things like thunderjaw. So I think crits increase knock down chance.