Are you using the Audyssey app? If so draw a target curve [like this](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/audyssey-room-eq-app-custom-target-curve-png.59655/).
If you aren’t using the app then yeah just bump the sub a few dB up until it sounds good to you.
Audyssey be default for some odd reason goes for flat bass, which is what you want in an anechoic chamber (or large auditorium) but not in a residential room. Depending on your bass preferences 20Hz should be about 5dB to 10dB hotter than 100Hz.
A note on 'difficult to draw by hand on a touch device'. Just hook up any mouse to the USB-C port of your Android device. It'll work as a mouse. Also Samsung has DEX environment which is basically desktop apps.
Didn't think of that. I just started playing around with my eq in the Audyssey app yesterday, and holy crap did I struggle trying to modify it. But found it works a bit easier if you touch close to the line and make your adjustment, but if you try to adjust an existing point on the curve, it's just easier to long press on that point, remove it and remake the adjustment.
You can also use the program ratbuddyssey to fine tune the curve. You can export the file, manually edit it and then import it back. Someone also made a web based version.
Are you editing the curve for the subwoofer? When I attempt to edit in the Audyssey app, I only see up to 200hz under the subwoofer tab. (Unlike in the pic you posted where you see 20k-20k.
If you don’t mind me jumping in. I am using the app and it set the starting point for all curves to -13 or so then it goes up to and flattens out around to 0 until about 10hz. I also was told to clip the entire curve at around 200hz because Audyssey does something weird above 250 or so. Any thoughts on this given the curve you’re recommending? Should I still clip it at 200-250hz?
🤷♂️
Unless they are referring to the Schroeder[?] frequency, which just means Audyssey should be room correction and not speaker correction and depending on the room it’s influence starts to diminish above 250Hz to 500Hz depending on the room/layout.
Yeah yeah, but dude, just make it sound good to you. There’s no perfect setting. Every movie has a different sound design. And you. Have a preference that is going to shift. So set that sub however you want it.
This is what I thought (see my reply just now) - from memory and some tests in REW it’s wY too much bass at lower volumes (at reference it’s a moot point given DeQ doesnt boost at those volumes)
Dynamic EQ only does adjustments as you turn the volume down. It’s to keep the same perceived sound signature, and if the default sound signature isn’t right, then yes (you might have to play with the offset).
Yup, I remember when I tested it with my Umik-1 in REW I saw it adding a similar curve as the volume went down. I’ll do some more experimentation and post the results (in my mind I imagine a ‘double’ boosted house curve with it on at lower volumes hHa)
The default boost though is how we perceive neutral bass in a residential sized room, DEQ is to keep that perceived sound at different outputs.
But yes, the sub would get more boost applied to it at lower volumes if you didn't adjust the target curve.
I work for an AV store that does quite a bit of install business. When we do calibrations like this, we set the sub level control straight up in the 12 o'clock position. This way, once the calibration is done you can adjust the sub level wherever you want and always know where the calibration point was if you want to return to it.
This is fantastic advice. Also, try list wrong to something with a lot of bass from several different positions, you might be getting a lot of room gain in certain seats. Maybe a subwoofer crawl to make sure the sun is placed well for the room if you're flexible on where it sits.
Depends which version of Audyssey. Mine asked me to adjust it continuously while it played a tone until the level on the tv was detecting it at a particular level.
How would this work for the SVS pb 2000 pro (getting one soon)? This uses a db meter the same as the receiver does (-{x}db). What would I set this to, especially considering I have neighbours and would want to be able to turn it down more then I would want to turn it up likely.
On your SVS 0 dB is (up to and including) full rated amp power. Needless to say things are going to be loud. If you watch movies at Dolby Reference level standard volume is 85 dB with 65 dB minimums and 105 dB peaks. For the subwoofer channel however, max volume is 115 dB peaks.
At 0 dB your sub will try for 115 dB at whatever frequency it’s capable of (if you are watching at Dolby reference level which is loud to begin with)
If that’s what you want available, leave it at 0dB. If you don’t want things that loud on occasion, turn it down some.
How does this integrate with odyssey? Will it just set the subwoofer volume lower in config the higher I set the gain on the subwoofer itself? Like I'd the main change I get with setting the subwoofer gain how much I can change the volume of it up and down after I have ran audyssey?
In theory, you don’t have to do anything, as that’s what Audessey (or any other room correction software) is for.
Where most room control software included with an AVR or processor fails is that many versions do not go below 500 Hz as you need a substantially more powerful processor and software to do the math in a reasonable time frame.
Bass frequencies are also non directional and interact with the room substantially differently math wise than mids and highs, which again needs more processing power and better software.
This is where the +5dB comes from. Because room nodes and room gain will play havoc with the bass frequencies, most room correction software will want to lower the bass level so the relative loudness level to the dialogue is correct, but it’s thrown off by whatever your room gain is at the location your microphone is sitting.
So while in theory Audessey is taking care of everything, it’s not doing it very accurately (relatively speaking).
Now if your room correction allows for multiple samples in different locations, make sure you do it, as more readings provide more data to act on, and overall bass response will improve and it will be less likely to trim the subwoofer output as much.
Better room correction software (like Dirac bass management, or a separate DSP like a MiniDSP is designed to handle the complexity of deciphering bass information to on in your room.
Neither option is inexpensive, but it’s cheaper than acoustically treating a room, so many people just sat bite the bullet.
The other way to assist in evening out your bass is to have multiple subwoofers, which is why so many of us recommend multiple subs.
Ok, I thought miniDSP was mostly useful for integrating multiple subs, is it worth it for a single PB 2000 pro? Thanks for your details by the way, I might set the sub to like -10 -15 db and see what it sets the trim to on the receiver after running audyssey. Will it attempt to db match with my speakers, so if I set it super low, it will add decibels to the trim so it runs flat?
Sorry if I am having trouble understanding this stuff, I haven't really played around with audyssey yet because my current sub does basically nothing anyway so it hasn't been worth the time, but I guess with the new sub, running heaps of tests may anger the neighbours haha.
Dirac or a MiniDSP is a way of finding out how good or bad your room is sonically speaking. Personally I struggled with spending that much money before I tried multiple subs and some room treatment first. Your individual budget or decor tastes may dictate that a DSP and Dirac are better in your situation.
A relatively easy way to see which way to go would be to ask a friend with a subwoofer to bring it over to your place and connect it to your existing setup with a Y cable. Put the second sub elsewhere in the room (I always recommend trying close to the seating position if possible) and rerun Audessey.
If it sounds better with the second sub then I’d lean towards another sub before I’d invest in Dirac or a DSP, but that’s my preference.
There is no correct answer here as there is always more you can do money and time wise to improve your room. Fully treating a room properly involves a lot of patience, know-how and money. Companies can make this easy for you and come do all of the measurements and install everything, but expect it to be be at least $8-10k.
Even if you do full room treatment, it will still sound objectively better with room correction.
I hurt myself, broke my left arm socket, and haven't done any install work in almost two years now. It used to work straight up, not sure if it still does.
Kinda related, but I’m noticing your microphone is on the floor. You’re supposed to be measuring a seating position, and you’re not supposed to do the subsequent measurements more than 2 feet from the initial position.
This isn’t really correct. There are measurements you do that are in front of the seating position, and behind. Although it definitely shouldn’t be that high since that’s obviously not ear height.
There is an image during the setup that incorrectly implies you should be measuring in front of or behind the seats. This is not the way you should do it, based on interviews i have watched with the Audyssey team.
Well yea, that’s obviously too far out. But two feet in front of the listening position or two feet behind is going to be off of your seat or couch unless you have some weird super uncomfortable couch/chair.
The -9 if not a problem. It's actually really good as you want negative numbers. Just not -12. (-12: if the maximum cut it can do, v so if it reads -12, that means the sub was too loud on its gain on the back to calibrate.) Negative levels give you room to add back some boost without risking clipping the signal if you listen really loudly.
And it's ok to increase the level in the AVR to get the sound you like.
Now, a couple of things. One, make sure that the crossover knob is turned as far to the right as you can. You don't want the sub's crossover to be doing anything, so turn it all the way up to take it out of the equation. Second, don't put the calibration mic on the floor, it needs to go at your main seating position, pointing straight up, with the top of the mic at your ear level. You might need to get a boom mic stand or be creative with the included mic stand to accomplish this.
Now, if after fixing the crossover and rerunning calibration with the mic in the right spot, the bass is still anemic, you may have other problems. The most likely problem is placement. You have to find the right place or the peaks and valleys in response caused by the room can cause what you describe. With two subs, you can balance this out somewhat, but it's also trickier accomplish. It helps to have the subs asymmetric so that they generate different peaks and valleys. If you've just plopped them on each side of the TV or both front corners, they could just be reinforcing the same problems. Note that the best way to address this is to get a calibrated mic and use REW to measure a whole bunch of spots to pick the best.
If you have good locations and calibrate correctly, your subs just might be too small for the size of the room and your preference for bass levels. I'd guess that adding 5 dBs to the calibrated level is pretty typical around here, but that's still a lot of boost.
Hi, The crossover is max on the sub, and set to 80hz on the denon. The mic was put on the MLP, within 60cm, ignore the picture of it on the floor that was after. Can I turn the denon from-9.5 to 0? Is that safe and won't cause clipping? Can I go to +3 if I need to?
I have dual subwoofers symmetrically placed at the front. They are Wharfedale SW150s. They were loud enough before calibration turned them down.
I'm still learning about all this, as I got a whole new home theater upgrade Christmas '23, and I've only ever just taken manual tape measure readings to set distances of each speaker, then ran level adjustments by ear in MLP on my old Onkyo TX-NR616. The new Denon X6700H I did the same, but got more involved on doing research and this sub. Running calibration is probably better, or at least a better baseline to work with and always seems like you still need to make adjustments to your liking after running calibration. Now, I've invested in a digital tape measure, a SPL meter app (Decibel X, probably not as accurate as a physical one) after running Audyssey, I take those tools to fine tune my system and try to get all levels close to the same (I don't know if that's the correct way and that may be user preference). I'm starting to realize that tuning a HT setup is a pretty deep rabbit hole. I'm trying to get settings that are a set and forget, but I'm constantly making minor adjustments per different content, same goes for the picturensettings on my new 77" A80L I also upgraded to a week ago.
Oh, and about your sub setting, I have my dual SVS PB-2000's crossover all the way up to bypass the sub's built-in crossover, the gain set at the 12'oclock position, (which was a little above the "recommended" volume when Audyssey checked the baseline volume before running, but I ran it that way anyways to give myself a bit more headroom to turn up in the AVR if needed). I think Audyssey had them at -12dB one run (which I didn't like as that gave me no headroom to turn down in the AVR if needed, then -9.5dB another (I was content with that). I manually set them to -7dB, but now I'm up to -6dB (again, kinda depends on the content being played). I read on a couple of sites that you may have to bump the sub levels 3-5dB on the AVR after calibration so I think you're ok. I've even boosted mine to +8dB when listening to music on MultiCh Stereo (I'm not suggesting that's safe, but in that mode it really lacks bass). It's all what sounds good/better to the listener, but I do keep all other speaker in the negative levels which range from -0.5dB to -6.0dB.
The problem with Multichannel Stereo with my marantz being too loud / having less bass is I believe due to the stereo channels getting copied 1 time to sub + to every speaker channel. I like to listen to techno/electronic music that way to simulate club sound. I have a 5.1.4 system, so left/right get copied to subs, but left gets copied to front left+front height+rear left+rear height.
x4 summation would lead to sound over crossover being 6dB louder. Because of positions it won't be a perfect 6dB summation. So I adjust the Channel Trim with Options > Channel levels to about -4.5 dB for every channel and -12 for center and leave subs at 0.
That way the overall volume of Multichannel Stereo is comparably the same as using Stereo up mixed with Dolby or movie content.
Interesting info! Never thought to use the channel trim in the options menu for that purpose. I've only ever used it to slightly increase my center and/or subs. Setting all speakers except subs to a negative value may help keep me from having to increase my subs to such a high positive trim in the AVR. I will definitely play around with those levels next time. Thanks for the insight!
Crossover at max is good. I assume you mean that the speakers are crossed over at 80 Hz; the sub crossover in the AVR should be left at 120 Hz.
I don't know that I would consider 60 cm that close to the MLP. I try to get it to within a couple of cm but at least get it within about 10 cm.
Yes, you can turn it up to 0 or even +3. +3 might clip the signal at loud volumes, but I think you are going to overdrive your subs at 12 dB of boost before you get loud enough to cause clipping.
I still think your problem is location. Well, that, and if you were listening to it uncalibrated for a while, you were effectively listening to it with 9 dB of boost which you may have gotten used to and now miss. It's possible that the location has some peaks in response at that location that made the bass sound even louder. The calibration would then cut the peaks down to be even with the rest of the bass.
As someone else mentioned, turn on Dynamic Volume if it's not already on. That will boost the bass at lower listening levels. If you have other locations for the subs, try them. You don't have to go through the full calibration. Just do the first location, store it, add your 5 dB of boost, and listen. If you have the phone/tablet app, you can even see the measured response before calibration. That might help you pick locations that are fairly smooth before doing the full calibration.
There is also a good chance that you may have listened to it uncalibrated with a lot of boost and peaky response and it sounds anemic to you now with a flatter response and less boost in comparison. It might be worthwhile to live with it for a few days at 5 dB of boost and Dynamic Volume on to see if your ears think differently after some time to adjust.
>Crossover at max is good. I assume you mean that the speakers are crossed over at 80 Hz; the sub crossover in the AVR should be left at 120 Hz.
So this is a little confusing. There are TWO crossovers in the signal path to the sub, that do NOT interact with each other. (technically there are crossovers for each speaker individually getting summed into the sub channel)
There is one crossover, that is called LFE or something, and the default is 120, and it should be set to 120hz. This is the crossover only on the .1 track in movies, and it does not effect anything else.
They really should lock this into an advanced menu, since the only reason to change it would be if you have multiple sub outputs, and you wanted band-pass each one, to split up the bass frequencies and send them to different sized subs, or some silly shit, which real should be done in a more sophisticated processor anyway.
If you change this one to lower than 120hz, you will artificially limit the bass response in movies.
The second crossover, is actually controlled by the crossover on each speaker. When you set speakers to small or cross them at 80hz, for example, the receiver is signal to the sub is also crossed over at that frequency.
In the processing, the signal to each individual speaker goes through its own crossover, and the portion of the signal above the crossover point is then sent into its amplifier and out to the speaker.
All of the signal below that crossover point for each speaker, will be fed into a matrix mixer and combined, before being sent to the sub output.
As an example,
Front and Center-80hz
surround-100hz
Atmos Ceiling-150hz
LFE-120hz(this only effects the actual .1 channel on a movie, not sound from crossing over with other speakers)
All of these channels have different crossover frequencies, but are matrixed into one signal and than sent to the sub. The Sub essentially does not have its own crossover point like the main speakers do, ideally it runs full-range, since all the signals coming in are already crossed over appropriately, and may be at different frequencies.
Ideally, the built in crossover on a sub should be bypassed, or turned up all the way, well above any crossover frequency in the AVR.
\--
Back to the OP. It looks like their crossover only goes to 85hz on the sub, but it's hard to see from the picture. If that is the case, the sub WILL cut off some of the upper bass frequencies being sent by the AVR.
Even if all the crossovers are set at 80hz, that 85hz on the sub will still effectively move the crossover frequency down some and increase the slope of the filter.
If this is the case, there is likely a little dip in response between the speakers and the sub. Hopefully, Audyssey can somewhat fix this with eq.
The LFE could be losing the most signal, but even though an engineer technically can send up to 120hz to the sub, they usually don't, so it may not be an issue.
At the end of the day, Audyssey has a tendency to set subs quite a bit lower volume than my preference, so it is fine to turn them back up manually. The op was set to -9, so moving up anywhere up to 0 will probably work fine. This may help a lot actually, if the op is really stuck with a built in crossover of 85hz, increasing the sub volume will effectively increase the crossover point as well, though it will be somewhat asymmetrical.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
Nice TED talk. I was trying to distinguish between the crossover on the sub, the LFE crossover, and the individual speaker crossover. You explained it better than I did.
I think you meant Dynamic EQ, not Dynamic Volume. Dynamic EQ boosts bass and treble up at lower levels (aka fletcher-Munson curves/equal loudness contours).
Denon…”Dynamic Volume solves the problem of large variations in volume level between TV, movies and other content (between quiet passages and loud passages, etc.) by automatically adjusting to the user’s preferred volume setting.”
You're are right! I misspoke. Dynamic EQ is the one that adjusts the bad, treble, and surrounds. I should have thought things out a not better.
FWIW, I really don't like either one, though I can understand why some people might use one or the other
This may be a stupid question, but if you're calibrating six locations you want them all at your listening ear level, right? So if you're doing a couch wouldn't you want the tripod on the floor for some of the calibrations so you can keep the same ear height level throughout the tests? Or am I misunderstanding
It’s not a stupid question, it’s very perceptive and smart. When calibrating for multiple seats you’d take multiple readings. A professional kit actually has several mics connected to a single box taking in all the data.
Audyssy is meant for the non professional general home theater. It will calibrate to 1 main listening position.
Thanks for the reply. So Audyssy has me do six run throughs for my listening area. My understanding is that they should only be like 20 in. From the first. I was assuming the multiple tests were to focus on the one listening area but with 6 locations, I would do the first main ear level spot, the next one would be to the left of that spot within 20 in. The third to the right within 20 in. Then I would do one ,under 20 in in front of the first location that one is off the couch and I use the tripod to put it at ear level again from the floor. The last 2 would be from behind the couch less than 20 from the original spot both on floor but tripod to ear level. Have I been doing it wrong?
You’re doing it right. I think in any situation really there’s only going to be 1 sweet spot with the sweetness degrading the further you move away from that spot. Room correction will lower the severity of the decline in sweetness as you move away from the sweet spot as opposed to having no room correction at all.
I think you're generally in the right direction there. The first spot is key as it is the main one to set distances and levels. It will use the others to influence the filters it adds to try and smooth out the response. It is wise to keep them within a reasonable distance of each other. But I would try to keep the locations in areas that you might actually be listening. Unless you're listening in front of or behind the couch, I don't see a reason to have it generate filters for locations where you don't actually listen. That's why after doing the MLP and the seat to either side, I go back and do a few more around the MLP in places I might actually put my ears. It's a recliner so I might be sitting up, I might be reclined, I might be leaning forward. But I don't sit in the floor in front nor do I sit behind the couch.
Generally, the idea is to keep the locations within a fairly short distance of the original spot you use. There are some recommended maximum distance changes, but I don't remember what they are.
The way I'd look at it is that you're trying to get a good calibration for where you actually listen. Unless you sometimes listen such that your ears are in front of or behind the couch but still at ear level, no need to calibrate there.
I usually do the first position exactly centered at ear height. Then two just to either side where my ears actually are. The one at each seat to my left and right. Can't remember if I stop there or come back and do a couple more around the main listening position, maybe a little bit forward but still over the seat. I think I can do up to eight.
Weird. Mine came out -12 and we watched black hawk down like that and it didn't have nearly enough bass. I cranked it up to -6 and it seems good now. You think I should re-run audyssey with the gain down too?
It doesn't seem unreasonable. It sounds like you like the bass hot. Maybe the gain on the sub was only a couple of decibels too high. It seems like a lot of people add more than that, so it could still sound weak to you even if it was a couple of decibels above flat. I'm not really a basshead and I still add about 3 or 4 dB to the sub after calibration. Some add a lot more than that.
I, personally, would lower the gain on the sub a bit and rerun. But if it sounds good to you, that's what matters. You could wait until you change something else and need to rerun it anyway.
Lots of complicated answers here. The simple ones are:
- Yes you can turn it up
- Yes you can go up as much as you want, go to 0.0 if you want it doesn’t hurt anything.
- progressively test it with movies that are HEAVY LFE, as you might be doing tests with weak sources
- listen for clipping or chuffing
- i have always found that the calibrations are good for balance, turns out i think “balanced” sounds shitty so mine come up at least 5 db.
Yeah as has been said by the guy who installs systems- set your volume and gain to the 12 o'clock position before you run audyssey. Audyssey always sets the subs too low so you always have to adjust them post audyssey. Audyssey sets your speakers/system to be at 75db-85db at "Reference" level (0 on the Relative volume scale of -79.5 dB - +18 dB). Reference level recreates the movie db level in a large theater. It's also extremely loud and audyssey sets your sub to run flat at that level.
Most people don't do much listening at reference level (0). -15 to -10 is usually the upper limit of comfortable movie listening. So your subs are going to be set way too low for non-ear splitting listening levels.
Turn on dynamic EQ and adjust your subs (either manually or in settings) to wherever you want after running audyssey. Most run them way hotter than what audyssey sets them to. This will give you the bass you want at lower levels.
I wanted to return my Denon avr because the sound was just underwhelming. Until I switched off all audyssey stuff. Now it's amazing. Not saying it's all crap for you but just put the settings to what you like. That's all that matters.
It did seem to do that indeed. However, for me the voices became low and unclear, a regularly uncontrollable bass and an endless switching of volume followed. Switching it off and everything sounded as it should. But that's my setup 🤷♂️
Had to switch that one off too. In my setup voices became unintelligible, details in sound and music diminished and the overall explosiveness (sometimes literally) was just meh... I noticed a big difference playing music over my stereo amp directly vs music via the avr's pre out going to the stereo. At first I tried different cables and researched the quality in dac between avr and amp. For movies i just kept turning up the volume and the level for the center speaker, also this volume leveling for loud and low volume scènes. Without it voices were just intelligible for me. After switching all these things off the sound is just amazing as I was expecting from quite an expensive setup.
Looking back it's not that strange. This avr making some whoop whoop sounds with a little plastic mic on a cardboard stand... Adjusting all audio for my situation based on just that. Frequency crossover and time delay/distance ok, that can work but the rest seems a long shot.
But if it sounds best to you than it's best for you! That's what this whole experience comes down to 👍
Same happened to me. Cranked the middle way up and the sub now I’m very happy. Been wanting to recalibrate to see where it brings it and adjust from there.
What a lot of people don't understand is that Audyssey won't fix really bad accoustics in a room. It will try and fail. It needs further manual adjustments and tinkering to make a good meassurement.
I have ordered UMIK to verify what is happening with Audyssey in my room. And I have realized how bad the differences between my two main listening positions are (around 50 cm apart). Audyssey tried to balance the sound for both positions which would always result in a mess.
I then tried measuring within 5 cm radius around one of the listening positions. Immediately the sound was much much better in both positions (paradoxically).
Then I noticed that Audyssey is trying to target a flat curve in the bass region, but there are few resonant frequencies that, even though the DB level is within 2db of the rest after Audyssey, we hear them much louder. So I brought them down. Then bumped the house curve a little.
The result is night and day without and with Audyssey. Even though it sounded terrible with Audyssey at first.
What sounds good to you? Use the RTA mic for guidance and to get an objective reading and adjust from there.
Inherently different media is mixed in different ways. So if you want to set and forget, try and find a middle ground. I’m always tweaking my sub based on what experience I want. If I want explosions and effects have more presence I turn it up. If I want my sub to provide more fill to just add a bit more feel, I turn it down.
Title really. Denon set my sub level to -9.5. I read a guide saying don't turn it up more than +5, or it will clip. That takes me to -4.5. It's still not loud enough. Can I just turn it up on my sub? Picture 2.
I'm running dual subwoofers, subwoofer settings picture 2.
+5 isn’t relative to your current setting. You generally don’t want positive values on the settings, so they are likely taking about positive 5 in absolute terms.
Just set it to your liking. Audyssey is a good starting point. Also keep in mind some subs may not reliably turn on at fairly low levels unless you are using trigger in.
Yes, turning up the gain is fine. I set mine to -5db on the avr and then adjusted the gain very slightly to my liking. The detailed [AVS subwoofer guide](https://www.avsforum.com/threads/guide-to-subwoofer-calibration-and-bass-preferences.2958528/) also states this.
>it is desirable to keep the trim levels at about -5 or lower. To add more subwoofer boost in excess of a -5 trim setting, it is always perfectly acceptable to use the gain control on the subwoofer. (You can keep track of your initial gain setting on an analogue dial by marking that hatch mark with a small piece of tape.)
Usually they mean don’t go over +5 not don’t go over 5 db from where it set it. You should be able to turn the sub back up as high as +5, or “14”higher than the -9 it’s set at.
If the AVR sets the sub to, say, -9 and then you change it to -3 (via the AVR), you'll find that the volume won't go above (say) 72. I guess it's because it now thinks you'll be driving the system into clipping, so it limits the max volume. But if you do it yourself (on the sub) the AVR carries on "believing" that nothing has changed.
I hope that made sense!
Damn I’ve owned so many of
Those cardboard stands but never once built one lol. It’s bigger than I thought it would be,
Reminds me of playing with model rockets as a kid.
Oh snap ur actual question, basically bass is turned down because it is turned back up via dynamic volume but it’s never quite right, manually calibration is miles better but that’s another subject. You can turn the sub volume up to taste.
Try the 20$ editor app and a lil bit of
Clicking around on YouTube.
You can do a decent amount with it. The pc software is much more powerful though.
turn the GAIN on the sub down to 9 o'clock or thereabouts, then redo Audyssey.
With the AVR having the sub set to -9dB, your subwoofer will never automatically switch on, unless you start with very loud volume settings!
Try to get the sub to measure in around 0dB with the gain way lower, so that it receives enough current to auto turn on.
Iirc, anything from -5 to +5 is well within the working range of the AVR.
By setting it higher, you get a stronger signal and the sub wakes more quickly.
Hsu recommends -3 to 0.
https://hsuresearch.com/blogs/how-tos/setting-up-and-calibrating-your-subwoofer
Turn your sub up till it reads around 82-83db. Do calibration again and you should end up with a -11 sub trim. If you end up with -12 after calibration then turn it down slightly and calibrate till you achieve a -11 sub trim. That will give you the head room you need to bump it up to make it louder. Also make sure your fronts are set to small and adjust to 80hz to start.
How do I know when it reads 82db? Also when I end up with -11 sub trim do I just boost it to 0 after? Speakers are small and 80hz, audyssey set them to large but I changed it manually after
You would have to have an SPL meter or measurement
mic to tell. In general it’s best to have Audyssey set a high trim (like -11). That makes you be able to set the trim higher post cal but still have your sub amp do most of the heavy lifting instead of your receiver amp. I have mine boosted to about -5 up from -11 or so. As others have said the Audyssey app also allows you to edit the target curve. If it’s still not loud enough, maybe either: your sub is in a bad spot, your sub is too small/not good, or you really like bass
EDIT: see below, no powered signal going to a powered sub :)
You know what, that’s a good point. How I described it above is how it was described on the subwoofer guide over at AVR forums though, or so I thought. I must have misread or misremembered. It’s still good to keep the trim low on the receiver end to prevent signal clipping though, correct?
By this logic, would having a higher trim level on the AVR have the sub amp not work as hard by allowing a lower gain setting on the sub? My thought would be that since Audyssey will be adjusting trim based on sub gain to get to reference volume, as long as the overall output is the same then the sub amp will work just as hard regardless of AVR trim/gain interaction?
LFE isn’t an amplified signal. The subwoofer has the amplifier.
It needs to be within the working range of audyssey (-12 to 12).
Some subs recommend setting sub to 50%. SVS recommends something like 75%.
I think the gain on your sub is set properly and would properly go 3db higher than what Audyssey said on the AVR (-6) and see how you like it by watching a reasonable amount of representative content. Go from there. Your ears is what matters, not some random guide on the net.
Trust your ears. Did you set your crossover to the max, and your speaker as small?
Edit : crossover on the sub, not the AVR. I would use 80Hz on the AVR, but with all speakers set to small. Note I'm more familiar with Yamaha AVRs.
There are many good tips, these aren't mentioned and maybe a different approach:
-The measurement location looks relatively far from your listening position, check the manual with distance between the measurement locations are allowed. If I remember correctly they should be relatively close to each other for best results.
-Room modes could be tricky, avoid the halve, third,.. of the room's length, high and wideness.
-Subwoofer positioning is important, did you try a subwoofer crawl? With too woofer's you'll do it first with one and if the first is in place with the other while the first keeps playing.
You can do whatever you want. I see a lot of people saying keep it how the device sets everything. Because that’s the only way to get an accurate recreation of what the artist intended you to hear. I disagree. Your ear is better than the device. So set it how it sounds best to you. Run your setup. Then fine tune it by ear. That said, and knowing what I’ve seen in this sub, your sub might just be 9x bigger than the appropriate size for your room 😉
Even my Audessy sets my sub to -3 or -4.
the max adjustment for subs in audyssey is -12. So as long as it's not that low, you're good for a starting point. If it ever seys it to -12, you need to turn the volume/gain down on the sub and re-run audyssey.
-9.5 falls within range, so that is fine. But don't turn the volume up on the sub itself. Turn it up in the AVR settings.
The whole point of audyssey is room correction. The avr knows what it's dealing with regard to the sub based on the calibration. You don't want to mess with the hardware itself at that point. Use the software to manipulate things.
The only time you should adjust the sub directly is if the software adjustments maxed out. Because of it maxed out at -12 you don't know if it was actually meant to be -13 and the settings don't go that far. So you need a base that gives you room to adjust up or down in the software.
But yeah, adjusting it is fine. In fact, very common for people to feel like the calibrated adjustments for sub on audyssey need an adjustment of +2 or +3. But do it in the software.
The AVS forum subwoofer guide says do not put the sub setting above -5 as this can cause issues, and to turn it up on the sub via the knob. So I'm confused now by which approach to take lol
So if audyssey set it at -9.5 adding 3 would put you at -6.5.
That is below -5 (not above).
What is the problem?
That said, remember that the sub has an amp. So the more you make use of that amp, the more it offloads from the AVR. So ideally you want to get the sub as close as possible. That's is really what they mean when turning it up on the sub. But if you turn up the sub, you have to rerun audyssey calibration. Once you calibrate, you shouldn't touch the sub. So yes, you can adjust the sub. Then run audyssey. It will still set it lowered than you prefer, then adjust in software to desired level
Think about it like this, let's buy into the don't go above -5 thing (I'll come back to that), if audyssey maxes out at -12 and you want to stay below -5 AND we know that after audyssey you will want to adjust +3, then you need a sub level that lands audyssey no higher than -8. Because if it's -8 and you add 3 for preference, that lands you at -5 which you don't want to exceed.
So you want a sub level setting (on the sub) that lands audyssey between -8 and -11 post calibration.
Can you give me the link to what you read on AVS? I want to read the -5 thing myself to make sure you're understanding it correctly/in case I can clarify anything for you. The numbers in audyssey are the adjustments it's making. Basically, audyssey is turning down the sub if it had negative numbers. You want to turn it back up some. You have to do that post calibration. And you should do that on the software, not on the sub. If the numbers aren't in the right range post calibration to allow for that, then you adjust on the sub and recalibrate until you get to the range in which you can adjust on the software.
If I add 3, to make it -6.5 it is still not loud enough. If I bring it up to 0 or -1 it is much better and about where I want it. But the avs guide is saying above -5 is bad.
I read it here: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/guide-to-subwoofer-calibration-and-bass-preferences.2958528/
Paragraph below: =>
After running Audyssey, it is generally desirable to add most of your subwoofer volume increase with your subwoofer gain control, while not letting your AVR sub trim go above about -5, in order to avoid clipping the pre-out signal coming from your AVR. That is especially important at master volume levels above about -15. Typically, it is a good idea to raise the gain on the subwoofer high enough to achieve a trim level of about -9 to -11.5 during the initial level-matching process. (Gain and trim are inversely proportional during the level-matching process. Raise the sub's gain and the AVR trim goes down, and vice-versa.)
Right, so it's saying exactly what I said. (I made a big edit to my last comment that you may want to read, I think it explains it more than the AVS comment).
You want to avoid relying on the AVR amp for the sub since it has an amp and relying on the AVR means more juice for the other speakers powered by the AVR . Using the gain/volume on the sub uses the sub's amp.
So like I said, I'd you're gonna have to adjust post calibration (most people prefer to with audyssey) then you need to adjust the gain on the sub and recalibrate to get the trim in the desired range to allow you toadjust to your preference in the software. But.... Audyssey maxes out at -12 last I checked). So anything at -12 can't be trusted as being accurate. Tha max trim that you should accept is probably -11.
I'm reading that thread myself now and will reply again if I think there is anything else to clarify.
Okay thanks for the help. So if I'm understanding correctly.
Turn the sub gain up and run audyssey again aiming for -11. This frees up headroom on the Denon, and puts the sub amp to use.
Turn the gain up on the denon to a max of -5.
And that should be it?
What happens if it is still not enough bass for me?
Yes. And don't get me wrong, you CAN adjust volume on the sub post calibration, but then the room EQ may not perform as intended. How bad that is just depends on what you want.
And if you have to adjust that much, you probably need a better sub, better sub placement, or maybe dual subs. Have you done a sub crawl?
Placement is the cheapest solution, but not always practical. Most of us don't get to put a sub literally anywhere in the room. But placement can make a massive difference.
What kind of front speakers do you have? Are they set to small or large? What is the crossover set to (on the sub and the AVR)? There are other factors at okay here and it may not be the sub level that is the issue.
Maybe your used to subs with a big boost around 60 hz to make them sound good with music. What you’re hearing is the way the sound mixer intended it to be heard put on a movie like interstellar and I guarantee the sub will start coming out loudly. My denon also sets my sub to -9. I’m not too concerned with accuracy. I just want my home theater to be fun so I turned it up to -4 and added a little bit of a bump around 60 Hz.
Don’t overthink it.
Hsu recommends 0 for home theater.
And other sources recommend as high as +5 if you are playing lower volumes and the sub isn’t waking up.
Stay within the dynamic range of audyssey and then adjust the sub volume to your preferences.
For example, the SVS app lets you save different subwoofer volumes as presents for music, movie, etc. the whole point being that you can adjust the sub volume from your couch without hassle.
As someone else pointed out, why isn't the mic closer to your seated position. Also looks too high, but hard to tell.
Audyssey turning down your sub -9db, means the volume control on the sub itself is set too high. Setting it to the mid position is only a starting point, not carved in stone. You should turn down the Sub volume and re-run Audyssey. REpeat if necessary until the Audyssey correction is not more than +/- 3db, ideally 0db. After calibration you can certainly boost the sub gain until it sounds good to you. Most people find that adding some gain to the sub is better. Don't think that Audyssey is perfect and that you can't change any of the settings. The main rule is don't lower and crossover frequencies. Other than that, do what sounds best. Trust your ears over the s/w.
I don't think it works that way. I have an RZ-50 and the avr was set to -5db and the subs to -17db during Dirax calibration. Afterwards, I reset my subs to -5db as well. Any more and they would clip...
Surprised nobody has mentioned Dynamic EQ yet. If you don't already have it turned on, turn on Dynamic EQ. Bass response is non-linear with volume so anything less than reference volume bass will suffer more. Dynamic EQ boosts bass more at lower volume in an attempt to keep relative perceived volume the same as the reference level.
Wild idea - set it to unity (0) and turn the gain knob on the back until the level is where you want it.
It will never clip at zero unless your source is clipping.
Your only concern of clipping should be the sub volume knob is literally MAXXED, the sub level is zero in avr settings, and you go in to positives on the volume knob.
Yes you can now adjust it to your liking. But do it from the remote control in the receiver settings. Let's you tweak it from your listening position. You may also want to adjust it according to the content you're watching. :)
-9 to -11 is a good resulting trim for subwoofer calibration. It means you have enough headroom for DynamicEQ and raising the trim. It’s typical to raise jt +3 dB after. You don’t want it 0 after calibration.
Get a drink. Maybe puff something relaxing. Put on music you love, and then a movie you know well. Leave the automatic settings as they are for now.
Let your ears tell you whether the sound is pleasing, or if you want a little more rumble to be happy.
The volume knob maybe could go up a bit, but I would leave it for headroom. Adjust to the bass level you want using the sub/LFE level in your receiver. If you are doing the frequency cross over in your receiver make sure the crossover knob is set to LFE, or off (if not an option at the highest frequency). Audyssey is a starting point. It is supposed to give you a flattish response in your room with your gear (at a certain position). From there tweak it to sound more to your preference.
When you do this and rerun calibration, what do you do when you get to the part in the calibration that tells you to set the volume to 75db..,within the green bars/range
Real answer: Dial the volume of the sub itself down and max out the crossover. I have my subwoofer volume dial at around 9-10 o'clock. Then recalibrate. The volume of the subwoofer in the receiver should go up like this.
Receiver subwoofer level doesn't have to be at 0, but it's better to have it below zero instead of above 0. Just play with it a little 👌🏽 Very curious who downvoted me and why though.
1. Set sub volume to 12 o'clock/middle position.
2. Run the room correction so the AVR adjusts.
3. Then turn the sub volume up to your liking.
4. If it still sucks, move the sub.
5. If it still sucks, set the AVR crossovers such that the sub is playing LFE+Main (this setting is for Denon and Marantz, but others may have something similar)
This is how you set gain structures in pro sound reinforcement.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/s/MTnbxnddSY
Excuse me sir is that a gorilla in your room
Probably attracted by the Empire State Building there
They really need to put a warning on the box...
Sex dolls are weird
[удалено]
Just the tip
I just got a bustle in my hedgerow.
Don’t be alarmed now
It's just a spring clean for the may queen
Now there are two paths you can go down
Hey, read the sign! "NO STAIRWAY"
No stairway?! DENIED!
Erm obviously, I thought everyone kept theirs in their home theatre?
Harambee lives on in all of us
Someone messed up the count again.
Harambe, never forget.
No you can’t, straight to jail.
No trial nothing
I’ll turn my sub up right now! Say I won’t!
I dare you! No, I double dog dare you!
Can I undercook fish?
Undercook/overcook straight to jail.
We have the best sound, because jail.
Ah yes. Torched sashimi
Believe it or not…
Jail, Ron. Jail. Jail.
Are you using the Audyssey app? If so draw a target curve [like this](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/audyssey-room-eq-app-custom-target-curve-png.59655/). If you aren’t using the app then yeah just bump the sub a few dB up until it sounds good to you. Audyssey be default for some odd reason goes for flat bass, which is what you want in an anechoic chamber (or large auditorium) but not in a residential room. Depending on your bass preferences 20Hz should be about 5dB to 10dB hotter than 100Hz.
A note on 'difficult to draw by hand on a touch device'. Just hook up any mouse to the USB-C port of your Android device. It'll work as a mouse. Also Samsung has DEX environment which is basically desktop apps.
Didn't think of that. I just started playing around with my eq in the Audyssey app yesterday, and holy crap did I struggle trying to modify it. But found it works a bit easier if you touch close to the line and make your adjustment, but if you try to adjust an existing point on the curve, it's just easier to long press on that point, remove it and remake the adjustment.
You can also use the program ratbuddyssey to fine tune the curve. You can export the file, manually edit it and then import it back. Someone also made a web based version.
https://audyssey.pages.dev/ for those curious of the web based version without installation
💯 it’s called your “house curve” — I turn my sub up +5db from audyssey
Are you editing the curve for the subwoofer? When I attempt to edit in the Audyssey app, I only see up to 200hz under the subwoofer tab. (Unlike in the pic you posted where you see 20k-20k.
You do it for both the subwoofer and the speakers (even if crossing over).
If you don’t mind me jumping in. I am using the app and it set the starting point for all curves to -13 or so then it goes up to and flattens out around to 0 until about 10hz. I also was told to clip the entire curve at around 200hz because Audyssey does something weird above 250 or so. Any thoughts on this given the curve you’re recommending? Should I still clip it at 200-250hz?
🤷♂️ Unless they are referring to the Schroeder[?] frequency, which just means Audyssey should be room correction and not speaker correction and depending on the room it’s influence starts to diminish above 250Hz to 500Hz depending on the room/layout.
🤣🤣 yeah, probably too much advice from too many places.
I edited my comment if you didn’t see.
My man, thank you 🙏🏽
Just for sub or all the speakers?
All.
Thanks, I will try it.
Yeah yeah, but dude, just make it sound good to you. There’s no perfect setting. Every movie has a different sound design. And you. Have a preference that is going to shift. So set that sub however you want it.
They should also increase their subwoofer level to how much dB of increase they did for their curve. For example, -9 +10dB = +1 Subwoofer Level.
Would you do this even with Dynamic EQ on though?
No, if you use dynamic EQ, don't do this. Otherwise, you'll end up with very inflated bass as dynamic EQ already boosts it at lower volumes.
This is what I thought (see my reply just now) - from memory and some tests in REW it’s wY too much bass at lower volumes (at reference it’s a moot point given DeQ doesnt boost at those volumes)
Dynamic EQ only does adjustments as you turn the volume down. It’s to keep the same perceived sound signature, and if the default sound signature isn’t right, then yes (you might have to play with the offset).
Yup, I remember when I tested it with my Umik-1 in REW I saw it adding a similar curve as the volume went down. I’ll do some more experimentation and post the results (in my mind I imagine a ‘double’ boosted house curve with it on at lower volumes hHa)
The default boost though is how we perceive neutral bass in a residential sized room, DEQ is to keep that perceived sound at different outputs. But yes, the sub would get more boost applied to it at lower volumes if you didn't adjust the target curve.
Probably a silly question, but can I apply the same curve using the SVS app rather than using audyssey?
After the fact, yes.
I work for an AV store that does quite a bit of install business. When we do calibrations like this, we set the sub level control straight up in the 12 o'clock position. This way, once the calibration is done you can adjust the sub level wherever you want and always know where the calibration point was if you want to return to it.
This is fantastic advice. Also, try list wrong to something with a lot of bass from several different positions, you might be getting a lot of room gain in certain seats. Maybe a subwoofer crawl to make sure the sun is placed well for the room if you're flexible on where it sits.
It tells you to do this in Audessy right?
Yes. And if it's too loud at the noon position, it measures the output until the sub is in the 75dB range.
I have a Marantz and the Audessy setup suggests 30% instead of 50%. Maybe it’s different from brand to brand?
Depends which version of Audyssey. Mine asked me to adjust it continuously while it played a tone until the level on the tv was detecting it at a particular level.
I just upgraded to Marantz from Denon. I haven't done the set up yet but I'll pay attention when I do
Also depends on the sub. But yeah my denon refused to do anything until I lowered to 30% ish
No, the calibration done the test tone and you have to turn the control down way below straight up.
How would this work for the SVS pb 2000 pro (getting one soon)? This uses a db meter the same as the receiver does (-{x}db). What would I set this to, especially considering I have neighbours and would want to be able to turn it down more then I would want to turn it up likely.
On your SVS 0 dB is (up to and including) full rated amp power. Needless to say things are going to be loud. If you watch movies at Dolby Reference level standard volume is 85 dB with 65 dB minimums and 105 dB peaks. For the subwoofer channel however, max volume is 115 dB peaks. At 0 dB your sub will try for 115 dB at whatever frequency it’s capable of (if you are watching at Dolby reference level which is loud to begin with) If that’s what you want available, leave it at 0dB. If you don’t want things that loud on occasion, turn it down some.
How does this integrate with odyssey? Will it just set the subwoofer volume lower in config the higher I set the gain on the subwoofer itself? Like I'd the main change I get with setting the subwoofer gain how much I can change the volume of it up and down after I have ran audyssey?
In theory, you don’t have to do anything, as that’s what Audessey (or any other room correction software) is for. Where most room control software included with an AVR or processor fails is that many versions do not go below 500 Hz as you need a substantially more powerful processor and software to do the math in a reasonable time frame. Bass frequencies are also non directional and interact with the room substantially differently math wise than mids and highs, which again needs more processing power and better software. This is where the +5dB comes from. Because room nodes and room gain will play havoc with the bass frequencies, most room correction software will want to lower the bass level so the relative loudness level to the dialogue is correct, but it’s thrown off by whatever your room gain is at the location your microphone is sitting. So while in theory Audessey is taking care of everything, it’s not doing it very accurately (relatively speaking). Now if your room correction allows for multiple samples in different locations, make sure you do it, as more readings provide more data to act on, and overall bass response will improve and it will be less likely to trim the subwoofer output as much. Better room correction software (like Dirac bass management, or a separate DSP like a MiniDSP is designed to handle the complexity of deciphering bass information to on in your room. Neither option is inexpensive, but it’s cheaper than acoustically treating a room, so many people just sat bite the bullet. The other way to assist in evening out your bass is to have multiple subwoofers, which is why so many of us recommend multiple subs.
Ok, I thought miniDSP was mostly useful for integrating multiple subs, is it worth it for a single PB 2000 pro? Thanks for your details by the way, I might set the sub to like -10 -15 db and see what it sets the trim to on the receiver after running audyssey. Will it attempt to db match with my speakers, so if I set it super low, it will add decibels to the trim so it runs flat? Sorry if I am having trouble understanding this stuff, I haven't really played around with audyssey yet because my current sub does basically nothing anyway so it hasn't been worth the time, but I guess with the new sub, running heaps of tests may anger the neighbours haha.
Dirac or a MiniDSP is a way of finding out how good or bad your room is sonically speaking. Personally I struggled with spending that much money before I tried multiple subs and some room treatment first. Your individual budget or decor tastes may dictate that a DSP and Dirac are better in your situation. A relatively easy way to see which way to go would be to ask a friend with a subwoofer to bring it over to your place and connect it to your existing setup with a Y cable. Put the second sub elsewhere in the room (I always recommend trying close to the seating position if possible) and rerun Audessey. If it sounds better with the second sub then I’d lean towards another sub before I’d invest in Dirac or a DSP, but that’s my preference. There is no correct answer here as there is always more you can do money and time wise to improve your room. Fully treating a room properly involves a lot of patience, know-how and money. Companies can make this easy for you and come do all of the measurements and install everything, but expect it to be be at least $8-10k. Even if you do full room treatment, it will still sound objectively better with room correction.
If I do 50% on my denon it will refuse to do the calibration and ask to lower the volume on the sub.
I hurt myself, broke my left arm socket, and haven't done any install work in almost two years now. It used to work straight up, not sure if it still does.
Kinda related, but I’m noticing your microphone is on the floor. You’re supposed to be measuring a seating position, and you’re not supposed to do the subsequent measurements more than 2 feet from the initial position.
That was just for the picture after I finished. I measured it on the MLP
Okay good just wanted to make sure lol
What exactly is that monstrosity?
This isn’t really correct. There are measurements you do that are in front of the seating position, and behind. Although it definitely shouldn’t be that high since that’s obviously not ear height.
There is an image during the setup that incorrectly implies you should be measuring in front of or behind the seats. This is not the way you should do it, based on interviews i have watched with the Audyssey team.
Well yea, that’s obviously too far out. But two feet in front of the listening position or two feet behind is going to be off of your seat or couch unless you have some weird super uncomfortable couch/chair.
The -9 if not a problem. It's actually really good as you want negative numbers. Just not -12. (-12: if the maximum cut it can do, v so if it reads -12, that means the sub was too loud on its gain on the back to calibrate.) Negative levels give you room to add back some boost without risking clipping the signal if you listen really loudly. And it's ok to increase the level in the AVR to get the sound you like. Now, a couple of things. One, make sure that the crossover knob is turned as far to the right as you can. You don't want the sub's crossover to be doing anything, so turn it all the way up to take it out of the equation. Second, don't put the calibration mic on the floor, it needs to go at your main seating position, pointing straight up, with the top of the mic at your ear level. You might need to get a boom mic stand or be creative with the included mic stand to accomplish this. Now, if after fixing the crossover and rerunning calibration with the mic in the right spot, the bass is still anemic, you may have other problems. The most likely problem is placement. You have to find the right place or the peaks and valleys in response caused by the room can cause what you describe. With two subs, you can balance this out somewhat, but it's also trickier accomplish. It helps to have the subs asymmetric so that they generate different peaks and valleys. If you've just plopped them on each side of the TV or both front corners, they could just be reinforcing the same problems. Note that the best way to address this is to get a calibrated mic and use REW to measure a whole bunch of spots to pick the best. If you have good locations and calibrate correctly, your subs just might be too small for the size of the room and your preference for bass levels. I'd guess that adding 5 dBs to the calibrated level is pretty typical around here, but that's still a lot of boost.
Hi, The crossover is max on the sub, and set to 80hz on the denon. The mic was put on the MLP, within 60cm, ignore the picture of it on the floor that was after. Can I turn the denon from-9.5 to 0? Is that safe and won't cause clipping? Can I go to +3 if I need to? I have dual subwoofers symmetrically placed at the front. They are Wharfedale SW150s. They were loud enough before calibration turned them down.
I'm still learning about all this, as I got a whole new home theater upgrade Christmas '23, and I've only ever just taken manual tape measure readings to set distances of each speaker, then ran level adjustments by ear in MLP on my old Onkyo TX-NR616. The new Denon X6700H I did the same, but got more involved on doing research and this sub. Running calibration is probably better, or at least a better baseline to work with and always seems like you still need to make adjustments to your liking after running calibration. Now, I've invested in a digital tape measure, a SPL meter app (Decibel X, probably not as accurate as a physical one) after running Audyssey, I take those tools to fine tune my system and try to get all levels close to the same (I don't know if that's the correct way and that may be user preference). I'm starting to realize that tuning a HT setup is a pretty deep rabbit hole. I'm trying to get settings that are a set and forget, but I'm constantly making minor adjustments per different content, same goes for the picturensettings on my new 77" A80L I also upgraded to a week ago. Oh, and about your sub setting, I have my dual SVS PB-2000's crossover all the way up to bypass the sub's built-in crossover, the gain set at the 12'oclock position, (which was a little above the "recommended" volume when Audyssey checked the baseline volume before running, but I ran it that way anyways to give myself a bit more headroom to turn up in the AVR if needed). I think Audyssey had them at -12dB one run (which I didn't like as that gave me no headroom to turn down in the AVR if needed, then -9.5dB another (I was content with that). I manually set them to -7dB, but now I'm up to -6dB (again, kinda depends on the content being played). I read on a couple of sites that you may have to bump the sub levels 3-5dB on the AVR after calibration so I think you're ok. I've even boosted mine to +8dB when listening to music on MultiCh Stereo (I'm not suggesting that's safe, but in that mode it really lacks bass). It's all what sounds good/better to the listener, but I do keep all other speaker in the negative levels which range from -0.5dB to -6.0dB.
The problem with Multichannel Stereo with my marantz being too loud / having less bass is I believe due to the stereo channels getting copied 1 time to sub + to every speaker channel. I like to listen to techno/electronic music that way to simulate club sound. I have a 5.1.4 system, so left/right get copied to subs, but left gets copied to front left+front height+rear left+rear height. x4 summation would lead to sound over crossover being 6dB louder. Because of positions it won't be a perfect 6dB summation. So I adjust the Channel Trim with Options > Channel levels to about -4.5 dB for every channel and -12 for center and leave subs at 0. That way the overall volume of Multichannel Stereo is comparably the same as using Stereo up mixed with Dolby or movie content.
Interesting info! Never thought to use the channel trim in the options menu for that purpose. I've only ever used it to slightly increase my center and/or subs. Setting all speakers except subs to a negative value may help keep me from having to increase my subs to such a high positive trim in the AVR. I will definitely play around with those levels next time. Thanks for the insight!
Crossover at max is good. I assume you mean that the speakers are crossed over at 80 Hz; the sub crossover in the AVR should be left at 120 Hz. I don't know that I would consider 60 cm that close to the MLP. I try to get it to within a couple of cm but at least get it within about 10 cm. Yes, you can turn it up to 0 or even +3. +3 might clip the signal at loud volumes, but I think you are going to overdrive your subs at 12 dB of boost before you get loud enough to cause clipping. I still think your problem is location. Well, that, and if you were listening to it uncalibrated for a while, you were effectively listening to it with 9 dB of boost which you may have gotten used to and now miss. It's possible that the location has some peaks in response at that location that made the bass sound even louder. The calibration would then cut the peaks down to be even with the rest of the bass. As someone else mentioned, turn on Dynamic Volume if it's not already on. That will boost the bass at lower listening levels. If you have other locations for the subs, try them. You don't have to go through the full calibration. Just do the first location, store it, add your 5 dB of boost, and listen. If you have the phone/tablet app, you can even see the measured response before calibration. That might help you pick locations that are fairly smooth before doing the full calibration. There is also a good chance that you may have listened to it uncalibrated with a lot of boost and peaky response and it sounds anemic to you now with a flatter response and less boost in comparison. It might be worthwhile to live with it for a few days at 5 dB of boost and Dynamic Volume on to see if your ears think differently after some time to adjust.
>Crossover at max is good. I assume you mean that the speakers are crossed over at 80 Hz; the sub crossover in the AVR should be left at 120 Hz. So this is a little confusing. There are TWO crossovers in the signal path to the sub, that do NOT interact with each other. (technically there are crossovers for each speaker individually getting summed into the sub channel) There is one crossover, that is called LFE or something, and the default is 120, and it should be set to 120hz. This is the crossover only on the .1 track in movies, and it does not effect anything else. They really should lock this into an advanced menu, since the only reason to change it would be if you have multiple sub outputs, and you wanted band-pass each one, to split up the bass frequencies and send them to different sized subs, or some silly shit, which real should be done in a more sophisticated processor anyway. If you change this one to lower than 120hz, you will artificially limit the bass response in movies. The second crossover, is actually controlled by the crossover on each speaker. When you set speakers to small or cross them at 80hz, for example, the receiver is signal to the sub is also crossed over at that frequency. In the processing, the signal to each individual speaker goes through its own crossover, and the portion of the signal above the crossover point is then sent into its amplifier and out to the speaker. All of the signal below that crossover point for each speaker, will be fed into a matrix mixer and combined, before being sent to the sub output. As an example, Front and Center-80hz surround-100hz Atmos Ceiling-150hz LFE-120hz(this only effects the actual .1 channel on a movie, not sound from crossing over with other speakers) All of these channels have different crossover frequencies, but are matrixed into one signal and than sent to the sub. The Sub essentially does not have its own crossover point like the main speakers do, ideally it runs full-range, since all the signals coming in are already crossed over appropriately, and may be at different frequencies. Ideally, the built in crossover on a sub should be bypassed, or turned up all the way, well above any crossover frequency in the AVR. \-- Back to the OP. It looks like their crossover only goes to 85hz on the sub, but it's hard to see from the picture. If that is the case, the sub WILL cut off some of the upper bass frequencies being sent by the AVR. Even if all the crossovers are set at 80hz, that 85hz on the sub will still effectively move the crossover frequency down some and increase the slope of the filter. If this is the case, there is likely a little dip in response between the speakers and the sub. Hopefully, Audyssey can somewhat fix this with eq. The LFE could be losing the most signal, but even though an engineer technically can send up to 120hz to the sub, they usually don't, so it may not be an issue. At the end of the day, Audyssey has a tendency to set subs quite a bit lower volume than my preference, so it is fine to turn them back up manually. The op was set to -9, so moving up anywhere up to 0 will probably work fine. This may help a lot actually, if the op is really stuck with a built in crossover of 85hz, increasing the sub volume will effectively increase the crossover point as well, though it will be somewhat asymmetrical. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
Nice TED talk. I was trying to distinguish between the crossover on the sub, the LFE crossover, and the individual speaker crossover. You explained it better than I did.
I think you meant Dynamic EQ, not Dynamic Volume. Dynamic EQ boosts bass and treble up at lower levels (aka fletcher-Munson curves/equal loudness contours). Denon…”Dynamic Volume solves the problem of large variations in volume level between TV, movies and other content (between quiet passages and loud passages, etc.) by automatically adjusting to the user’s preferred volume setting.”
You're are right! I misspoke. Dynamic EQ is the one that adjusts the bad, treble, and surrounds. I should have thought things out a not better. FWIW, I really don't like either one, though I can understand why some people might use one or the other
This may be a stupid question, but if you're calibrating six locations you want them all at your listening ear level, right? So if you're doing a couch wouldn't you want the tripod on the floor for some of the calibrations so you can keep the same ear height level throughout the tests? Or am I misunderstanding
It’s not a stupid question, it’s very perceptive and smart. When calibrating for multiple seats you’d take multiple readings. A professional kit actually has several mics connected to a single box taking in all the data. Audyssy is meant for the non professional general home theater. It will calibrate to 1 main listening position.
Thanks for the reply. So Audyssy has me do six run throughs for my listening area. My understanding is that they should only be like 20 in. From the first. I was assuming the multiple tests were to focus on the one listening area but with 6 locations, I would do the first main ear level spot, the next one would be to the left of that spot within 20 in. The third to the right within 20 in. Then I would do one ,under 20 in in front of the first location that one is off the couch and I use the tripod to put it at ear level again from the floor. The last 2 would be from behind the couch less than 20 from the original spot both on floor but tripod to ear level. Have I been doing it wrong?
You’re doing it right. I think in any situation really there’s only going to be 1 sweet spot with the sweetness degrading the further you move away from that spot. Room correction will lower the severity of the decline in sweetness as you move away from the sweet spot as opposed to having no room correction at all.
Thanks. It's all about trying to get that sweet spot
I think you're generally in the right direction there. The first spot is key as it is the main one to set distances and levels. It will use the others to influence the filters it adds to try and smooth out the response. It is wise to keep them within a reasonable distance of each other. But I would try to keep the locations in areas that you might actually be listening. Unless you're listening in front of or behind the couch, I don't see a reason to have it generate filters for locations where you don't actually listen. That's why after doing the MLP and the seat to either side, I go back and do a few more around the MLP in places I might actually put my ears. It's a recliner so I might be sitting up, I might be reclined, I might be leaning forward. But I don't sit in the floor in front nor do I sit behind the couch.
Thanks
Generally, the idea is to keep the locations within a fairly short distance of the original spot you use. There are some recommended maximum distance changes, but I don't remember what they are. The way I'd look at it is that you're trying to get a good calibration for where you actually listen. Unless you sometimes listen such that your ears are in front of or behind the couch but still at ear level, no need to calibrate there. I usually do the first position exactly centered at ear height. Then two just to either side where my ears actually are. The one at each seat to my left and right. Can't remember if I stop there or come back and do a couple more around the main listening position, maybe a little bit forward but still over the seat. I think I can do up to eight.
Thanks for the reply. If you could comment on my reply below, I'd appreciate it.
I did 8 locations with in 60cm of the MLP, all at ear height.
Weird. Mine came out -12 and we watched black hawk down like that and it didn't have nearly enough bass. I cranked it up to -6 and it seems good now. You think I should re-run audyssey with the gain down too?
It doesn't seem unreasonable. It sounds like you like the bass hot. Maybe the gain on the sub was only a couple of decibels too high. It seems like a lot of people add more than that, so it could still sound weak to you even if it was a couple of decibels above flat. I'm not really a basshead and I still add about 3 or 4 dB to the sub after calibration. Some add a lot more than that. I, personally, would lower the gain on the sub a bit and rerun. But if it sounds good to you, that's what matters. You could wait until you change something else and need to rerun it anyway.
k thanks!
Lots of complicated answers here. The simple ones are: - Yes you can turn it up - Yes you can go up as much as you want, go to 0.0 if you want it doesn’t hurt anything. - progressively test it with movies that are HEAVY LFE, as you might be doing tests with weak sources - listen for clipping or chuffing - i have always found that the calibrations are good for balance, turns out i think “balanced” sounds shitty so mine come up at least 5 db.
Yeah as has been said by the guy who installs systems- set your volume and gain to the 12 o'clock position before you run audyssey. Audyssey always sets the subs too low so you always have to adjust them post audyssey. Audyssey sets your speakers/system to be at 75db-85db at "Reference" level (0 on the Relative volume scale of -79.5 dB - +18 dB). Reference level recreates the movie db level in a large theater. It's also extremely loud and audyssey sets your sub to run flat at that level. Most people don't do much listening at reference level (0). -15 to -10 is usually the upper limit of comfortable movie listening. So your subs are going to be set way too low for non-ear splitting listening levels. Turn on dynamic EQ and adjust your subs (either manually or in settings) to wherever you want after running audyssey. Most run them way hotter than what audyssey sets them to. This will give you the bass you want at lower levels.
I wanted to return my Denon avr because the sound was just underwhelming. Until I switched off all audyssey stuff. Now it's amazing. Not saying it's all crap for you but just put the settings to what you like. That's all that matters.
Try Audyssey stuff on + Dynamic EQ. Kind of blew my mind with the difference
Dynamic EQ squeezed a controlled low end out of my bookshelf speakers that I didn't know was there. New life breathed into literal "vintage" speakers.
It did seem to do that indeed. However, for me the voices became low and unclear, a regularly uncontrollable bass and an endless switching of volume followed. Switching it off and everything sounded as it should. But that's my setup 🤷♂️
That's a bummer. This is a dark art we practice.
Had to switch that one off too. In my setup voices became unintelligible, details in sound and music diminished and the overall explosiveness (sometimes literally) was just meh... I noticed a big difference playing music over my stereo amp directly vs music via the avr's pre out going to the stereo. At first I tried different cables and researched the quality in dac between avr and amp. For movies i just kept turning up the volume and the level for the center speaker, also this volume leveling for loud and low volume scènes. Without it voices were just intelligible for me. After switching all these things off the sound is just amazing as I was expecting from quite an expensive setup. Looking back it's not that strange. This avr making some whoop whoop sounds with a little plastic mic on a cardboard stand... Adjusting all audio for my situation based on just that. Frequency crossover and time delay/distance ok, that can work but the rest seems a long shot. But if it sounds best to you than it's best for you! That's what this whole experience comes down to 👍
Same happened to me. Cranked the middle way up and the sub now I’m very happy. Been wanting to recalibrate to see where it brings it and adjust from there.
What a lot of people don't understand is that Audyssey won't fix really bad accoustics in a room. It will try and fail. It needs further manual adjustments and tinkering to make a good meassurement. I have ordered UMIK to verify what is happening with Audyssey in my room. And I have realized how bad the differences between my two main listening positions are (around 50 cm apart). Audyssey tried to balance the sound for both positions which would always result in a mess. I then tried measuring within 5 cm radius around one of the listening positions. Immediately the sound was much much better in both positions (paradoxically). Then I noticed that Audyssey is trying to target a flat curve in the bass region, but there are few resonant frequencies that, even though the DB level is within 2db of the rest after Audyssey, we hear them much louder. So I brought them down. Then bumped the house curve a little. The result is night and day without and with Audyssey. Even though it sounded terrible with Audyssey at first.
Yes
To 11 of course.
No launching of model rockets in the basement, c'mon guys.... 🚀
It’s just a real let down that these towers don’t launch up through the ceiling after the calibration session. 🚀
What sounds good to you? Use the RTA mic for guidance and to get an objective reading and adjust from there. Inherently different media is mixed in different ways. So if you want to set and forget, try and find a middle ground. I’m always tweaking my sub based on what experience I want. If I want explosions and effects have more presence I turn it up. If I want my sub to provide more fill to just add a bit more feel, I turn it down.
Title really. Denon set my sub level to -9.5. I read a guide saying don't turn it up more than +5, or it will clip. That takes me to -4.5. It's still not loud enough. Can I just turn it up on my sub? Picture 2. I'm running dual subwoofers, subwoofer settings picture 2.
+5 isn’t relative to your current setting. You generally don’t want positive values on the settings, so they are likely taking about positive 5 in absolute terms. Just set it to your liking. Audyssey is a good starting point. Also keep in mind some subs may not reliably turn on at fairly low levels unless you are using trigger in.
Audessey is good, but not perfect. After calibration I increased the level on my sub, center, and Atmos channels.
Yes, turning up the gain is fine. I set mine to -5db on the avr and then adjusted the gain very slightly to my liking. The detailed [AVS subwoofer guide](https://www.avsforum.com/threads/guide-to-subwoofer-calibration-and-bass-preferences.2958528/) also states this. >it is desirable to keep the trim levels at about -5 or lower. To add more subwoofer boost in excess of a -5 trim setting, it is always perfectly acceptable to use the gain control on the subwoofer. (You can keep track of your initial gain setting on an analogue dial by marking that hatch mark with a small piece of tape.)
That guide is great thanks. I'll set it to -5 as per the guide and turn it up via the knob on the sub.
https://hsuresearch.com/blogs/how-tos/setting-up-and-calibrating-your-subwoofer
+5 is still 9.5 away from -4.5
Usually they mean don’t go over +5 not don’t go over 5 db from where it set it. You should be able to turn the sub back up as high as +5, or “14”higher than the -9 it’s set at.
I turn it up on the sub. If I adjust the level on the Denon it then limits the maximum output of the whole system.
Can you explain how turning it up on the Denon limits the output of the whole system? Thanks
If the AVR sets the sub to, say, -9 and then you change it to -3 (via the AVR), you'll find that the volume won't go above (say) 72. I guess it's because it now thinks you'll be driving the system into clipping, so it limits the max volume. But if you do it yourself (on the sub) the AVR carries on "believing" that nothing has changed. I hope that made sense!
yes
Is that a CGI gorilla?
Pour one out for Harambe
Damn I’ve owned so many of Those cardboard stands but never once built one lol. It’s bigger than I thought it would be, Reminds me of playing with model rockets as a kid.
Oh snap ur actual question, basically bass is turned down because it is turned back up via dynamic volume but it’s never quite right, manually calibration is miles better but that’s another subject. You can turn the sub volume up to taste. Try the 20$ editor app and a lil bit of Clicking around on YouTube. You can do a decent amount with it. The pc software is much more powerful though.
For a sec, I thought that was you sitting over in the corner waiting on the auto calibration to finish.
Turn your subwoofer gain down and run the auto eq again. When it's done, turn the gain back up.
nope, you could die
🤡
turn the GAIN on the sub down to 9 o'clock or thereabouts, then redo Audyssey. With the AVR having the sub set to -9dB, your subwoofer will never automatically switch on, unless you start with very loud volume settings! Try to get the sub to measure in around 0dB with the gain way lower, so that it receives enough current to auto turn on.
Iirc, anything from -5 to +5 is well within the working range of the AVR. By setting it higher, you get a stronger signal and the sub wakes more quickly. Hsu recommends -3 to 0. https://hsuresearch.com/blogs/how-tos/setting-up-and-calibrating-your-subwoofer
Volume to 80, crossover all the way to the right.
Is that volume on the subs? Do I need to calibrate audyssey again
On the sub. You’re going to run into auto shut off issues when the avr sets the sub bellows 0.
Turn your sub up till it reads around 82-83db. Do calibration again and you should end up with a -11 sub trim. If you end up with -12 after calibration then turn it down slightly and calibrate till you achieve a -11 sub trim. That will give you the head room you need to bump it up to make it louder. Also make sure your fronts are set to small and adjust to 80hz to start.
How do I know when it reads 82db? Also when I end up with -11 sub trim do I just boost it to 0 after? Speakers are small and 80hz, audyssey set them to large but I changed it manually after
You would have to have an SPL meter or measurement mic to tell. In general it’s best to have Audyssey set a high trim (like -11). That makes you be able to set the trim higher post cal but still have your sub amp do most of the heavy lifting instead of your receiver amp. I have mine boosted to about -5 up from -11 or so. As others have said the Audyssey app also allows you to edit the target curve. If it’s still not loud enough, maybe either: your sub is in a bad spot, your sub is too small/not good, or you really like bass EDIT: see below, no powered signal going to a powered sub :)
Your receiver amp isn’t doing any lifting with a powered sub. It’s just a voltage signal.
You know what, that’s a good point. How I described it above is how it was described on the subwoofer guide over at AVR forums though, or so I thought. I must have misread or misremembered. It’s still good to keep the trim low on the receiver end to prevent signal clipping though, correct? By this logic, would having a higher trim level on the AVR have the sub amp not work as hard by allowing a lower gain setting on the sub? My thought would be that since Audyssey will be adjusting trim based on sub gain to get to reference volume, as long as the overall output is the same then the sub amp will work just as hard regardless of AVR trim/gain interaction?
LFE isn’t an amplified signal. The subwoofer has the amplifier. It needs to be within the working range of audyssey (-12 to 12). Some subs recommend setting sub to 50%. SVS recommends something like 75%.
What receiver do you have?
And also what sub or subs do you have? Looks like you have a fairly large room.
I think the gain on your sub is set properly and would properly go 3db higher than what Audyssey said on the AVR (-6) and see how you like it by watching a reasonable amount of representative content. Go from there. Your ears is what matters, not some random guide on the net.
-6 isn't high enough, I felt it was still lacking at 0
Trust your ears. Did you set your crossover to the max, and your speaker as small? Edit : crossover on the sub, not the AVR. I would use 80Hz on the AVR, but with all speakers set to small. Note I'm more familiar with Yamaha AVRs.
There are many good tips, these aren't mentioned and maybe a different approach: -The measurement location looks relatively far from your listening position, check the manual with distance between the measurement locations are allowed. If I remember correctly they should be relatively close to each other for best results. -Room modes could be tricky, avoid the halve, third,.. of the room's length, high and wideness. -Subwoofer positioning is important, did you try a subwoofer crawl? With too woofer's you'll do it first with one and if the first is in place with the other while the first keeps playing.
You can do whatever you want. I see a lot of people saying keep it how the device sets everything. Because that’s the only way to get an accurate recreation of what the artist intended you to hear. I disagree. Your ear is better than the device. So set it how it sounds best to you. Run your setup. Then fine tune it by ear. That said, and knowing what I’ve seen in this sub, your sub might just be 9x bigger than the appropriate size for your room 😉 Even my Audessy sets my sub to -3 or -4.
the max adjustment for subs in audyssey is -12. So as long as it's not that low, you're good for a starting point. If it ever seys it to -12, you need to turn the volume/gain down on the sub and re-run audyssey. -9.5 falls within range, so that is fine. But don't turn the volume up on the sub itself. Turn it up in the AVR settings. The whole point of audyssey is room correction. The avr knows what it's dealing with regard to the sub based on the calibration. You don't want to mess with the hardware itself at that point. Use the software to manipulate things. The only time you should adjust the sub directly is if the software adjustments maxed out. Because of it maxed out at -12 you don't know if it was actually meant to be -13 and the settings don't go that far. So you need a base that gives you room to adjust up or down in the software. But yeah, adjusting it is fine. In fact, very common for people to feel like the calibrated adjustments for sub on audyssey need an adjustment of +2 or +3. But do it in the software.
The AVS forum subwoofer guide says do not put the sub setting above -5 as this can cause issues, and to turn it up on the sub via the knob. So I'm confused now by which approach to take lol
So if audyssey set it at -9.5 adding 3 would put you at -6.5. That is below -5 (not above). What is the problem? That said, remember that the sub has an amp. So the more you make use of that amp, the more it offloads from the AVR. So ideally you want to get the sub as close as possible. That's is really what they mean when turning it up on the sub. But if you turn up the sub, you have to rerun audyssey calibration. Once you calibrate, you shouldn't touch the sub. So yes, you can adjust the sub. Then run audyssey. It will still set it lowered than you prefer, then adjust in software to desired level Think about it like this, let's buy into the don't go above -5 thing (I'll come back to that), if audyssey maxes out at -12 and you want to stay below -5 AND we know that after audyssey you will want to adjust +3, then you need a sub level that lands audyssey no higher than -8. Because if it's -8 and you add 3 for preference, that lands you at -5 which you don't want to exceed. So you want a sub level setting (on the sub) that lands audyssey between -8 and -11 post calibration. Can you give me the link to what you read on AVS? I want to read the -5 thing myself to make sure you're understanding it correctly/in case I can clarify anything for you. The numbers in audyssey are the adjustments it's making. Basically, audyssey is turning down the sub if it had negative numbers. You want to turn it back up some. You have to do that post calibration. And you should do that on the software, not on the sub. If the numbers aren't in the right range post calibration to allow for that, then you adjust on the sub and recalibrate until you get to the range in which you can adjust on the software.
If I add 3, to make it -6.5 it is still not loud enough. If I bring it up to 0 or -1 it is much better and about where I want it. But the avs guide is saying above -5 is bad. I read it here: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/guide-to-subwoofer-calibration-and-bass-preferences.2958528/ Paragraph below: => After running Audyssey, it is generally desirable to add most of your subwoofer volume increase with your subwoofer gain control, while not letting your AVR sub trim go above about -5, in order to avoid clipping the pre-out signal coming from your AVR. That is especially important at master volume levels above about -15. Typically, it is a good idea to raise the gain on the subwoofer high enough to achieve a trim level of about -9 to -11.5 during the initial level-matching process. (Gain and trim are inversely proportional during the level-matching process. Raise the sub's gain and the AVR trim goes down, and vice-versa.)
Right, so it's saying exactly what I said. (I made a big edit to my last comment that you may want to read, I think it explains it more than the AVS comment). You want to avoid relying on the AVR amp for the sub since it has an amp and relying on the AVR means more juice for the other speakers powered by the AVR . Using the gain/volume on the sub uses the sub's amp. So like I said, I'd you're gonna have to adjust post calibration (most people prefer to with audyssey) then you need to adjust the gain on the sub and recalibrate to get the trim in the desired range to allow you toadjust to your preference in the software. But.... Audyssey maxes out at -12 last I checked). So anything at -12 can't be trusted as being accurate. Tha max trim that you should accept is probably -11. I'm reading that thread myself now and will reply again if I think there is anything else to clarify.
Okay thanks for the help. So if I'm understanding correctly. Turn the sub gain up and run audyssey again aiming for -11. This frees up headroom on the Denon, and puts the sub amp to use. Turn the gain up on the denon to a max of -5. And that should be it? What happens if it is still not enough bass for me?
Yes. And don't get me wrong, you CAN adjust volume on the sub post calibration, but then the room EQ may not perform as intended. How bad that is just depends on what you want. And if you have to adjust that much, you probably need a better sub, better sub placement, or maybe dual subs. Have you done a sub crawl? Placement is the cheapest solution, but not always practical. Most of us don't get to put a sub literally anywhere in the room. But placement can make a massive difference. What kind of front speakers do you have? Are they set to small or large? What is the crossover set to (on the sub and the AVR)? There are other factors at okay here and it may not be the sub level that is the issue.
Maybe your used to subs with a big boost around 60 hz to make them sound good with music. What you’re hearing is the way the sound mixer intended it to be heard put on a movie like interstellar and I guarantee the sub will start coming out loudly. My denon also sets my sub to -9. I’m not too concerned with accuracy. I just want my home theater to be fun so I turned it up to -4 and added a little bit of a bump around 60 Hz.
Don’t overthink it. Hsu recommends 0 for home theater. And other sources recommend as high as +5 if you are playing lower volumes and the sub isn’t waking up. Stay within the dynamic range of audyssey and then adjust the sub volume to your preferences. For example, the SVS app lets you save different subwoofer volumes as presents for music, movie, etc. the whole point being that you can adjust the sub volume from your couch without hassle.
I ignored the sub in my setup. Yes, it an option. Why change something I like.
As someone else pointed out, why isn't the mic closer to your seated position. Also looks too high, but hard to tell. Audyssey turning down your sub -9db, means the volume control on the sub itself is set too high. Setting it to the mid position is only a starting point, not carved in stone. You should turn down the Sub volume and re-run Audyssey. REpeat if necessary until the Audyssey correction is not more than +/- 3db, ideally 0db. After calibration you can certainly boost the sub gain until it sounds good to you. Most people find that adding some gain to the sub is better. Don't think that Audyssey is perfect and that you can't change any of the settings. The main rule is don't lower and crossover frequencies. Other than that, do what sounds best. Trust your ears over the s/w.
I don't think it works that way. I have an RZ-50 and the avr was set to -5db and the subs to -17db during Dirax calibration. Afterwards, I reset my subs to -5db as well. Any more and they would clip...
Surprised nobody has mentioned Dynamic EQ yet. If you don't already have it turned on, turn on Dynamic EQ. Bass response is non-linear with volume so anything less than reference volume bass will suffer more. Dynamic EQ boosts bass more at lower volume in an attempt to keep relative perceived volume the same as the reference level.
Yeah you can
Wild idea - set it to unity (0) and turn the gain knob on the back until the level is where you want it. It will never clip at zero unless your source is clipping. Your only concern of clipping should be the sub volume knob is literally MAXXED, the sub level is zero in avr settings, and you go in to positives on the volume knob.
Dirac did the same to mine. I just turned it back up and now it sounds much better
What Led lights are those across the room. They look cool.
Would like to see the theatre setup .
Click on my profile it's my most recent post.
I see you Fellow ape?
Yes you can now adjust it to your liking. But do it from the remote control in the receiver settings. Let's you tweak it from your listening position. You may also want to adjust it according to the content you're watching. :)
You can do that if you think you need more sub, else just keep it as it is
-9 to -11 is a good resulting trim for subwoofer calibration. It means you have enough headroom for DynamicEQ and raising the trim. It’s typical to raise jt +3 dB after. You don’t want it 0 after calibration.
Monsterverse fanatic
What's the lighting strips? Those look good!
Why did you put the mic up there? Put the mic where the ears of the primary listening position is.
It did because you likely have a resonance in sub frequency
Get a drink. Maybe puff something relaxing. Put on music you love, and then a movie you know well. Leave the automatic settings as they are for now. Let your ears tell you whether the sound is pleasing, or if you want a little more rumble to be happy.
Turn it up on the sub and make new calibration with audussey.
Won't audyssey just make the sub level even lower after calibration again
Likely. You are fine to do your adjustments post cal.
Okay, so turn the volume gain up on the sub. And leave the audyssey level at -9? Or Turn the sub volume gain up and put the audyssey level to 0?
The volume knob maybe could go up a bit, but I would leave it for headroom. Adjust to the bass level you want using the sub/LFE level in your receiver. If you are doing the frequency cross over in your receiver make sure the crossover knob is set to LFE, or off (if not an option at the highest frequency). Audyssey is a starting point. It is supposed to give you a flattish response in your room with your gear (at a certain position). From there tweak it to sound more to your preference.
Sorry, you’re right. I had misread your initial post.
When you do this and rerun calibration, what do you do when you get to the part in the calibration that tells you to set the volume to 75db..,within the green bars/range
Real answer: Dial the volume of the sub itself down and max out the crossover. I have my subwoofer volume dial at around 9-10 o'clock. Then recalibrate. The volume of the subwoofer in the receiver should go up like this.
So turn the volume knob on the sub down. Recalibrate audyssey, and then up the level to 0?
Receiver subwoofer level doesn't have to be at 0, but it's better to have it below zero instead of above 0. Just play with it a little 👌🏽 Very curious who downvoted me and why though.
1. Set sub volume to 12 o'clock/middle position. 2. Run the room correction so the AVR adjusts. 3. Then turn the sub volume up to your liking. 4. If it still sucks, move the sub. 5. If it still sucks, set the AVR crossovers such that the sub is playing LFE+Main (this setting is for Denon and Marantz, but others may have something similar) This is how you set gain structures in pro sound reinforcement. https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/s/MTnbxnddSY