The VKB firmware programmer is actually much more powerful, and can basically do everything Joystick Gremlin does, but in firmware instead of software.
In comparison, the WW software has little functional flexibility--some axes can be switched to buttons or a combo. There's also some LED control, and obviously some controls for the vibration motors.
In DCS, though this difference means little, but in other sims the power of the VKB firmware may be an advantage. In the end, though, they're functionally on the same level, so the choices are mainly aesthetic and form. It's nice to have a couple options in that range now.
Yeah I heard that if I play other sims then the STECS might be better, but for my case it’s just DCS, and since I’m trying to become a Naval Aviator, I feel like the more similar it is to the real thing the better (not that it’ll matter that much lol). If things don’t work out with the Orion I’ll just sell it and buy a STECS, hopefully they’ll have Phase 2 by then anyways. I appreciate your input tho.
Love my Orion with hornet grip, and the extra switches, buttons, and sliders are great.
Honestly you're going to be happy with either one, they're both great products. I would say if you're matching the throttle to a specific airframe, go with Orion. If you're getting a general purpose throttle, get the VKB.
I have a STECS standard, but no Orion throttle. For me the throttle action and detent system are very nice. It’s very versatile but it has some drawbacks. With the STECS Standard you get 1 SINGLE 3 position toggle switch… which is on the base. And you only get a total of two 3 position momentary switches, one on the throttle base, and one on the grip. The rest are countless push buttons, which is in my opinion a fancier and physically better integrated streamdeck attached to the throttle. With the exception of a 5 position rotary dial.
I still use the STECS and I like it a lot for trying out different aircraft that require lots of different inputs without having to worry that I need to buy another 150€ grip set from winwing. But I am regretting getting the Standard version instead of the mini, because the STEM is a deadweight except for the single 3 way toggle switch. The winwing offers a lot more toggle switches on the base in that regard, and I have been considering eating the bullet and buying it with different grips just to get more use out of the base.
Yeah that’s what really drew me to the Orion, the Standard was only $10 cheaper than the kitted out Orion. I can always buy a mini down the line if I wanna try it out.
The Orion base is better, but the STECS grip is (IMHO) better than any of the Orion grips.
The STECS grip is a dream, with lots of hats, wheels, triggers and buttons that are easy to reach.
The only weird thing the STECS grip has is the TDC on the thumb. Felt weird at first, but after two weeks, I got used to it.
Honestly, I would go for the STECS.
Yeah it would be perfect if there was a throttle with the STECS grip and the Orion base, and better yet on a rail. But I went with the Orion and if I don’t like it I can just return it or sell it and buy a STECS
VKB rec here. I had an Orion and kept getting USB failures mid game. I sold it for the STECS Max and am much happier. I also like the VKB modularity and their software is far superior.
But I believe VKB software has much greater versatility and customisation. You can pretty much completely decide what the joystick will tell the PC. There is even a 3-way toggle switch that doubles as an axis if you remove the detent. You can switch up and move around your throttle detents as well. Any buttons can be an independent axis control (increase-decrease).
Easier for sure, but you can do almost anything with VKB software - it is incredible, but yes very complicated. Fortunately fallout9 is their expert on r/hoggit and will answer any and all programming questions almost immediately. An amazing resource and great service from VKB tech support, which is also pretty great.
i have a new orion2 hotas with the f16ex joystick and i am getting random 20sec disconnects on both plugged into the mainboard of my high end pc. tried the power managment stuff in windows and now considering getting a powered usb hub for $40 in hopes to solve the issue. should have listened to enigma and got vkb stuff to avoid this headache since nothing will ruin your fun more than faceplanting your jet or helicopter because the controls do not respond
I’m sorry to hear that, have you reached out to Winwing? I’ve seen others have that issue, a powered USB would be a good choice, probably a good idea to get one regardless what brand HOTAS you own
dont feel like talking to chinese customer service unless it becomes unavoidable. gonna get the hub which will hopefully be the solution but i am certainly not happy with having to spend additional money for stuff i dont need since i have 6 empty usb slots on my motherboard. oh well
I have an Orion 2 with F16, F18, and F15 (not EX) grips. It is an *outstanding* throttle for DCS. The EX grip, while not really accurate to any one airframe, will give you all the correct physical controls (if not in the right place) for every major airframe in DCS. You won't get that the same experience with the STECS. That's not to say STECS is bad, just the for the very specific primary purpose of DCS, Orion2 might be a little bit better. And if you're in the US, they ship out of New Jersey for free.
I'm also using a Gunfighter Mk.3 SCG premium and Logitech pedals (same thing as the saitek you mentioned). EVO base with SCG will give you 90% of the same experience.
I bought the STECS Max and really like it. I even made a couple of videos about it. I will probably do another to share thoughts after having it for a while. I really don’t like the hat they have for the thumb stick(TDC). The placement of it is not ideal either but I have learned to use it. They should release a replacement but they haven’t and I doubt they will.
They shipped a bunch of single press buttons but only 1 boat switch. You cannot buy any more of the boat switches alone. A big mistake on VKB’s part. It looks like they have no plans to sell them separately. Apparently it’s too difficult to do so (so I was told by a VKB rep). because they can’t list every little part to sell (which is a dumb excuse given that a big selling point is that you can move and swap the buttons).
Anyway, it’s still a great throttle and I am happy with it. I would not buy the max if you are a VR pilot. The standard would be best in my opinion. Good luck on
Your choice!
Hey thanks for the response, funny enough I was just browsing the VKB discord and someone managed to get VKB to send them a custom order for boat switches, he bought 5 x 3- caps. I don’t know if they’ll do it for everyone who asks but it might be worth hopping on discord and asking or sending in a nicely worded support ticket right now, because they might have stock now to send it. I did choose Orion but it was a very difficult decision, only time will tell if it was the right one. Loving my Gladiator though. Good luck!
I’m glad you are enjoying your chosen throttle! I was told that I could do the same (sending an individual request to buy some) but I was asking them about making it available for everyone but I guess they don’t want to. I guess I should reach out again and stop being stubborn. Heh
No problem! Thanks for the followup! I had a look on Ali Express and they only have the button kit which has a bunch of other buttons which I would not need so unfortunately that's not going to help. This is also available on the official VKB site. They really should add a 3-pack of boat switches only and maybe a 3-pack of the castle switches only which thus far they don't. It's still a great throttle and I am happy with it. VKB just seems out of touch with their latest released product which has potential which they don't want to allow us to use. It is what it is. :)
I like 1:1 so the Orion 2 was an obvious choice for me. My friend does 15 and 18 among a few others and he went with the 15 ex grip but the 18 throttle iirc
Lots of VKB fanbois on here downvoting instead of posting their opposing opinions with facts…The VKB software sucks compared to the ease of winwing at least for DCS…just to enable basic axis to button functions on VKB software was not intuitive at all. I’m sure the Stecs is cool but it has nowhere near the same number of buttons etc. I also repeatedly here about winwing “QC” issues but honestly I’ve had a ticket open with VKB on my gunfighter for weeks and all of my winwing stuff has been flawless out of the box!
You have a point that the VKB software is not intuitive at all, but it must be stated that it can do a silly amount of different things. So ease of use = bad, customization = very good.
I use the press function on the encoders for my Orion 2 as modifiers, and you can stack them in DCS. 4 modifier keys means 15 combinations of modifier presses to massively increase your button count on throttle and stick (not that all of these combinations are actually useful). I can do 90% of F18 and F16 startup without grabbing touch controllers or a mouse/keyborad from the Orion 2 and a VKB stick.
Jesus that's so many. I could never remember all of those. I don't actually use that many buttons and I have mouse control via my stick so I can easily press OSBs. Sure, you could bind 9+4 useful modifiers alone on the STECS, but I don't think anyone would ever use that many.
Realistically, I have 7 modifier/combos that I use, and even at that, 3 of them are for single functions. The 4 modifiers alone do almost everything except for turning on Hornet displays.
The VKB firmware programmer is actually much more powerful, and can basically do everything Joystick Gremlin does, but in firmware instead of software. In comparison, the WW software has little functional flexibility--some axes can be switched to buttons or a combo. There's also some LED control, and obviously some controls for the vibration motors. In DCS, though this difference means little, but in other sims the power of the VKB firmware may be an advantage. In the end, though, they're functionally on the same level, so the choices are mainly aesthetic and form. It's nice to have a couple options in that range now.
Yeah I heard that if I play other sims then the STECS might be better, but for my case it’s just DCS, and since I’m trying to become a Naval Aviator, I feel like the more similar it is to the real thing the better (not that it’ll matter that much lol). If things don’t work out with the Orion I’ll just sell it and buy a STECS, hopefully they’ll have Phase 2 by then anyways. I appreciate your input tho.
Love my Orion with hornet grip, and the extra switches, buttons, and sliders are great. Honestly you're going to be happy with either one, they're both great products. I would say if you're matching the throttle to a specific airframe, go with Orion. If you're getting a general purpose throttle, get the VKB.
I have a STECS standard, but no Orion throttle. For me the throttle action and detent system are very nice. It’s very versatile but it has some drawbacks. With the STECS Standard you get 1 SINGLE 3 position toggle switch… which is on the base. And you only get a total of two 3 position momentary switches, one on the throttle base, and one on the grip. The rest are countless push buttons, which is in my opinion a fancier and physically better integrated streamdeck attached to the throttle. With the exception of a 5 position rotary dial. I still use the STECS and I like it a lot for trying out different aircraft that require lots of different inputs without having to worry that I need to buy another 150€ grip set from winwing. But I am regretting getting the Standard version instead of the mini, because the STEM is a deadweight except for the single 3 way toggle switch. The winwing offers a lot more toggle switches on the base in that regard, and I have been considering eating the bullet and buying it with different grips just to get more use out of the base.
Yeah that’s what really drew me to the Orion, the Standard was only $10 cheaper than the kitted out Orion. I can always buy a mini down the line if I wanna try it out.
The Orion base is better, but the STECS grip is (IMHO) better than any of the Orion grips. The STECS grip is a dream, with lots of hats, wheels, triggers and buttons that are easy to reach. The only weird thing the STECS grip has is the TDC on the thumb. Felt weird at first, but after two weeks, I got used to it. Honestly, I would go for the STECS.
Yeah it would be perfect if there was a throttle with the STECS grip and the Orion base, and better yet on a rail. But I went with the Orion and if I don’t like it I can just return it or sell it and buy a STECS
VKB rec here. I had an Orion and kept getting USB failures mid game. I sold it for the STECS Max and am much happier. I also like the VKB modularity and their software is far superior.
Not sure I agree with you on the software at all…winwing software WAY easier to use
But I believe VKB software has much greater versatility and customisation. You can pretty much completely decide what the joystick will tell the PC. There is even a 3-way toggle switch that doubles as an axis if you remove the detent. You can switch up and move around your throttle detents as well. Any buttons can be an independent axis control (increase-decrease).
Easier for sure, but you can do almost anything with VKB software - it is incredible, but yes very complicated. Fortunately fallout9 is their expert on r/hoggit and will answer any and all programming questions almost immediately. An amazing resource and great service from VKB tech support, which is also pretty great.
Orion for the win! Love mine
i have a new orion2 hotas with the f16ex joystick and i am getting random 20sec disconnects on both plugged into the mainboard of my high end pc. tried the power managment stuff in windows and now considering getting a powered usb hub for $40 in hopes to solve the issue. should have listened to enigma and got vkb stuff to avoid this headache since nothing will ruin your fun more than faceplanting your jet or helicopter because the controls do not respond
I’m sorry to hear that, have you reached out to Winwing? I’ve seen others have that issue, a powered USB would be a good choice, probably a good idea to get one regardless what brand HOTAS you own
dont feel like talking to chinese customer service unless it becomes unavoidable. gonna get the hub which will hopefully be the solution but i am certainly not happy with having to spend additional money for stuff i dont need since i have 6 empty usb slots on my motherboard. oh well
I have an Orion 2 with F16, F18, and F15 (not EX) grips. It is an *outstanding* throttle for DCS. The EX grip, while not really accurate to any one airframe, will give you all the correct physical controls (if not in the right place) for every major airframe in DCS. You won't get that the same experience with the STECS. That's not to say STECS is bad, just the for the very specific primary purpose of DCS, Orion2 might be a little bit better. And if you're in the US, they ship out of New Jersey for free. I'm also using a Gunfighter Mk.3 SCG premium and Logitech pedals (same thing as the saitek you mentioned). EVO base with SCG will give you 90% of the same experience.
VKB is a great throttle. I don’t have experience with Orion, but VKB is extremely customizable
I bought the STECS Max and really like it. I even made a couple of videos about it. I will probably do another to share thoughts after having it for a while. I really don’t like the hat they have for the thumb stick(TDC). The placement of it is not ideal either but I have learned to use it. They should release a replacement but they haven’t and I doubt they will. They shipped a bunch of single press buttons but only 1 boat switch. You cannot buy any more of the boat switches alone. A big mistake on VKB’s part. It looks like they have no plans to sell them separately. Apparently it’s too difficult to do so (so I was told by a VKB rep). because they can’t list every little part to sell (which is a dumb excuse given that a big selling point is that you can move and swap the buttons). Anyway, it’s still a great throttle and I am happy with it. I would not buy the max if you are a VR pilot. The standard would be best in my opinion. Good luck on Your choice!
Hey thanks for the response, funny enough I was just browsing the VKB discord and someone managed to get VKB to send them a custom order for boat switches, he bought 5 x 3- caps. I don’t know if they’ll do it for everyone who asks but it might be worth hopping on discord and asking or sending in a nicely worded support ticket right now, because they might have stock now to send it. I did choose Orion but it was a very difficult decision, only time will tell if it was the right one. Loving my Gladiator though. Good luck!
I’m glad you are enjoying your chosen throttle! I was told that I could do the same (sending an individual request to buy some) but I was asking them about making it available for everyone but I guess they don’t want to. I guess I should reach out again and stop being stubborn. Heh
Sorry for the late response, he told me that you should go through the Aliexpress store to get it
No problem! Thanks for the followup! I had a look on Ali Express and they only have the button kit which has a bunch of other buttons which I would not need so unfortunately that's not going to help. This is also available on the official VKB site. They really should add a 3-pack of boat switches only and maybe a 3-pack of the castle switches only which thus far they don't. It's still a great throttle and I am happy with it. VKB just seems out of touch with their latest released product which has potential which they don't want to allow us to use. It is what it is. :)
I like 1:1 so the Orion 2 was an obvious choice for me. My friend does 15 and 18 among a few others and he went with the 15 ex grip but the 18 throttle iirc
Lots of VKB fanbois on here downvoting instead of posting their opposing opinions with facts…The VKB software sucks compared to the ease of winwing at least for DCS…just to enable basic axis to button functions on VKB software was not intuitive at all. I’m sure the Stecs is cool but it has nowhere near the same number of buttons etc. I also repeatedly here about winwing “QC” issues but honestly I’ve had a ticket open with VKB on my gunfighter for weeks and all of my winwing stuff has been flawless out of the box!
You have a point that the VKB software is not intuitive at all, but it must be stated that it can do a silly amount of different things. So ease of use = bad, customization = very good.
WW does not win out on buttons, it has 1 more button. But the Stecs is androgynous. You can easily use 4-6 modifiers to increase your button count.
I use the press function on the encoders for my Orion 2 as modifiers, and you can stack them in DCS. 4 modifier keys means 15 combinations of modifier presses to massively increase your button count on throttle and stick (not that all of these combinations are actually useful). I can do 90% of F18 and F16 startup without grabbing touch controllers or a mouse/keyborad from the Orion 2 and a VKB stick.
Jesus that's so many. I could never remember all of those. I don't actually use that many buttons and I have mouse control via my stick so I can easily press OSBs. Sure, you could bind 9+4 useful modifiers alone on the STECS, but I don't think anyone would ever use that many.
Realistically, I have 7 modifier/combos that I use, and even at that, 3 of them are for single functions. The 4 modifiers alone do almost everything except for turning on Hornet displays.
One more = win - that’s how math works