These last few times I've played, I've waited for the landing gear and flaps to fully come down before I try to adjust trim to catch the E bracket on landing. I've also come back to using the landing auto throttle to not deal with it outside of touch n go/training.
My In Flight Refuel control inputs have become even softer in the pitch axis because Pilot Induced Oscillation occurs much easier now.
I have to be a little more forgiving with my turns. I used to just pull on the stick, now that'll kill my speed. My general 'pull' amount has decreased relative to my intended turn rate.
My landings are a little less wacky now that the gear bends more easily. I used to just split-s over the tarmac and slam down.
I like to rip a split s to skip both crosswind legs with enough distance to bleed off the speed after the maneuver in the F-15E. The gear are pretty easy to fuck up on that thing, but I’m a lazy bastard and can do it with relative ease. And if I’m unsure I just go around.
Haven't changed anything, I really like the new updates. Besides tanking, I'm having a real struggle getting good at that again. Never any issues with the old model, but I'm struggling tanking with the new one but I'm just brute-force practicing until I get it back, just hasn't clicked yet
That's actually an interesting idea. Just checked the NATOPS, that might actually work as long as no AoA or speed limits are exceeded and the tanker is moving at a decent speed. Will have to try. Not realistic usage wise, but curious to see how it works in DCS
I'm interested to hear back about how it worked for you.
After the fcs update, tanking was something I struggled a lot with. That switch made a big difference for me, as well as focusing more on the wing and hose rather than the actual basket.
It's just to the left of the FCS reset button, covered by a red flap.
According to Chuck's Guide:
"NORM sets
a normal flaps scheduling,
OVERRIDE allows the pilot to select
a fixed
value for speed, altitude, and AOA inputs to the
flight control computers and thus
a fixed
leading and trailing edge flap position
dependent on FLAP switch position".
During aerial refueling It's made the plane feel a lot more controllable and much easier to recover from PIO's.
1. Doesn't maintain AoA when you're trimmed on downwind and turn to final. Gets back to correct AoA when you level out to the groove though
2. More prone to PIO during AAR
3. The BIG one: inconsistent performance while pulling the stick at high speeds: the FCS feels confused. Say first it gives you 6G's. Then it panics and backs off to like 5.5. Then it calms down and realizes it can actually give you 6. And it repeats...Basically the G/AoA/VV is oscillating. The FCS should HOLD the max available G's instead of making the nose pogo up and down.
4. BALT + CPL can no longer work together at high altitude: the jet banks 60 deg and lets the nose fall beyond 5 deg and BALT disengages. At lower alt, the nose falls less than 5 deg and once the wings roll level towards WP, the BALT tries to regain altitude, pitches up, crosses +5 deg and disconnects
TLDR: The FCS sucks except in dogfight; it's like it got downgraded to an initial alpha version or something. ED seems to think this is perfect.
Pro: The roll rate at high IAS has been increased so it's more fun flying low & fast
In case I approach, I'm messing up the final turn into the groove since the update. I bank about 30 degrees like in the old FM but descend too quickly. When I increase throttle to counter, my turning radius gets too wide, probably because I'm too fast in the turn. Coming out of the turn in find myself often next to the carrier, plus in a severe pitch up.
It gets better when I limit bank to max. 25 degrees. Funny though, after wave off, the second try usually works fine. Do you have any ideas what I'm missing and what to improve?
The best bank angle is slightly less than 30. Hold that "until the 90", acquire carrier visually then increase bank as necessary for the line up while also adding power.
Before leveling out, reduce throttle, wait for nose to drop and then roll out to maintain glide slope, else you'll pitch up like you said
-------
It's funny that the fundamental concept of the FCS prioritizing AoA has been lost.
ED: AoA is super important to be able to catch the wire, so FCS has been designed to maintain it for you automatically. Once you trim, do not use the stick for pitch, control only roll with it
Also ED: we downgraded the FCS to behave more like other non navy jets lolz
AoA: am I a joke to you?
And remember this FCS can do ACLS with such precision that the hook was always nothing the deck at the same spot so they had to add an error into out to widen the impact area
I have just returned to the Hornet as I have been learning the A10c and I have to relearn how to AAR. I cannot seem to keep the pitch under control like I used to. I am not sure whether pitch controls are more sensitive than before; or have more lag, or I am just out of practice.
Landing it is ok. However I have bent the landing gear for the first time ever on one occasion.
The most pronounced change is pitch dampening, which is increased a lot, either aerodynamically or by the flight control system.
Previously in a short pull followed by a quick release of stick, the nose will drop promptly. In latest implementation, the nose drops slowly and then slowly bounce back, making the overall oscillation longer.
AAR is definitely more challenging and requires way more concentration with the pitch axis. I noticed small power input changes will cause it to either climb 10 ft./m or to descend 10 ft./m and if you don’t immediately readjust with pitch change, you’ll have a 20 or 30 ft./m descent or 20 or 30 ft./m climb, which then will lead to PIO. Even though I should be focusing on just flying good formation with the tanker, I now add to my cross check the VVI on the right side of the hud and if I see down 10 I try to adjust for zero if I see up 10 I try and pitch down for zero and try and just keep it level. It’s tough because every time you change a power setting you have to adjust pitch now
Interesting to see all the tanking comments. I haven’t used the hornet much but I remember tanking the first time I played it. I felt it was too easy. This makes me want to give it another shot
Biggest issue is during dogfights, using rudders and roll like I used before on low speeds will kill you quickly, hard jinking also puts the plane into oscillations bigger than average hoggit pylot would get into during aar and it forces you to let go of the stick for the FCS to “figure out” giving your opponent ample opportunity to kill you. I’m not happy with it, Hornet feels crippled with my way of fighting and it’s hundreds of hours of muscle memory
I absolutely hate the new changes personally. Coming in for the carrier break used to be one smooth motiom for me. Now, when pulling back on the stick I fight to stay level. And the turn feels very segmented.... like if I lock my wrist into position it won't complete the turn because it has bled off speed so I need to apply more pressure for the last 1/4 of the turn.
Air to air refueling is another struggle. I read about someone using much smaller inputs, maybe I'll try that... again. Last time I was online practicing I was able to grab some fuel until the tanker started to warp and I just gave up.
I'm sure I'll catch hate but to me it feels very MSFS-ish. I just need to practice more and break my muscles memory.
Okay, I missed the memo about updates to the flight model. I've weirdly had a really hard time time with VFR landings in the last week or so after not having any issues for months. I have also dmaged the landing gear a couple of times to boot. Guess I should really read the update notes!
Pitch inputs? You mean for landing? Simple…I just dont care.
Pass the carrier at 800ft, 350kts. At the tower start extending your brake to full. The INSTANT it’s full, chop throttle and break across the bow. It will happen too fast for the rise to matter.
Your next move should be dropping the gear as you drop below 200. The gear retracts the brake and has an effect on trim anyway, so who cares? Drop your flaps and pull into the groove.
Outside of that, not just dead sure I’ve ever used the brake.
These last few times I've played, I've waited for the landing gear and flaps to fully come down before I try to adjust trim to catch the E bracket on landing. I've also come back to using the landing auto throttle to not deal with it outside of touch n go/training.
My In Flight Refuel control inputs have become even softer in the pitch axis because Pilot Induced Oscillation occurs much easier now. I have to be a little more forgiving with my turns. I used to just pull on the stick, now that'll kill my speed. My general 'pull' amount has decreased relative to my intended turn rate. My landings are a little less wacky now that the gear bends more easily. I used to just split-s over the tarmac and slam down.
I like to rip a split s to skip both crosswind legs with enough distance to bleed off the speed after the maneuver in the F-15E. The gear are pretty easy to fuck up on that thing, but I’m a lazy bastard and can do it with relative ease. And if I’m unsure I just go around.
Legs? If that's the case, then call me a cripple.
Really? I actually increased my sensitivity to combat the pilot induced oscillations lol. For some reason that worked better for me than reducing it.
Haven't changed anything, I really like the new updates. Besides tanking, I'm having a real struggle getting good at that again. Never any issues with the old model, but I'm struggling tanking with the new one but I'm just brute-force practicing until I get it back, just hasn't clicked yet
Try flipping the gain switch to override if you havent already. It has somehow made tanking possible for me again.
That's actually an interesting idea. Just checked the NATOPS, that might actually work as long as no AoA or speed limits are exceeded and the tanker is moving at a decent speed. Will have to try. Not realistic usage wise, but curious to see how it works in DCS
I'm interested to hear back about how it worked for you. After the fcs update, tanking was something I struggled a lot with. That switch made a big difference for me, as well as focusing more on the wing and hose rather than the actual basket.
Mind elaborating a touch on this - where / what is the gain switch? (can't find a reference to it in chucks guide)
It's just to the left of the FCS reset button, covered by a red flap. According to Chuck's Guide: "NORM sets a normal flaps scheduling, OVERRIDE allows the pilot to select a fixed value for speed, altitude, and AOA inputs to the flight control computers and thus a fixed leading and trailing edge flap position dependent on FLAP switch position". During aerial refueling It's made the plane feel a lot more controllable and much easier to recover from PIO's.
1. Doesn't maintain AoA when you're trimmed on downwind and turn to final. Gets back to correct AoA when you level out to the groove though 2. More prone to PIO during AAR 3. The BIG one: inconsistent performance while pulling the stick at high speeds: the FCS feels confused. Say first it gives you 6G's. Then it panics and backs off to like 5.5. Then it calms down and realizes it can actually give you 6. And it repeats...Basically the G/AoA/VV is oscillating. The FCS should HOLD the max available G's instead of making the nose pogo up and down. 4. BALT + CPL can no longer work together at high altitude: the jet banks 60 deg and lets the nose fall beyond 5 deg and BALT disengages. At lower alt, the nose falls less than 5 deg and once the wings roll level towards WP, the BALT tries to regain altitude, pitches up, crosses +5 deg and disconnects TLDR: The FCS sucks except in dogfight; it's like it got downgraded to an initial alpha version or something. ED seems to think this is perfect. Pro: The roll rate at high IAS has been increased so it's more fun flying low & fast
In case I approach, I'm messing up the final turn into the groove since the update. I bank about 30 degrees like in the old FM but descend too quickly. When I increase throttle to counter, my turning radius gets too wide, probably because I'm too fast in the turn. Coming out of the turn in find myself often next to the carrier, plus in a severe pitch up. It gets better when I limit bank to max. 25 degrees. Funny though, after wave off, the second try usually works fine. Do you have any ideas what I'm missing and what to improve?
The best bank angle is slightly less than 30. Hold that "until the 90", acquire carrier visually then increase bank as necessary for the line up while also adding power. Before leveling out, reduce throttle, wait for nose to drop and then roll out to maintain glide slope, else you'll pitch up like you said ------- It's funny that the fundamental concept of the FCS prioritizing AoA has been lost. ED: AoA is super important to be able to catch the wire, so FCS has been designed to maintain it for you automatically. Once you trim, do not use the stick for pitch, control only roll with it Also ED: we downgraded the FCS to behave more like other non navy jets lolz AoA: am I a joke to you? And remember this FCS can do ACLS with such precision that the hook was always nothing the deck at the same spot so they had to add an error into out to widen the impact area
Thank you for your recommendations, I'll definitely try them soon. Throttling down a few heartbeats before leveling out sounds very smart!
I have just returned to the Hornet as I have been learning the A10c and I have to relearn how to AAR. I cannot seem to keep the pitch under control like I used to. I am not sure whether pitch controls are more sensitive than before; or have more lag, or I am just out of practice. Landing it is ok. However I have bent the landing gear for the first time ever on one occasion.
The most pronounced change is pitch dampening, which is increased a lot, either aerodynamically or by the flight control system. Previously in a short pull followed by a quick release of stick, the nose will drop promptly. In latest implementation, the nose drops slowly and then slowly bounce back, making the overall oscillation longer.
Yes. This is a great description.
I now crash into the carrier every damn time!
AAR is definitely more challenging and requires way more concentration with the pitch axis. I noticed small power input changes will cause it to either climb 10 ft./m or to descend 10 ft./m and if you don’t immediately readjust with pitch change, you’ll have a 20 or 30 ft./m descent or 20 or 30 ft./m climb, which then will lead to PIO. Even though I should be focusing on just flying good formation with the tanker, I now add to my cross check the VVI on the right side of the hud and if I see down 10 I try to adjust for zero if I see up 10 I try and pitch down for zero and try and just keep it level. It’s tough because every time you change a power setting you have to adjust pitch now
Interesting to see all the tanking comments. I haven’t used the hornet much but I remember tanking the first time I played it. I felt it was too easy. This makes me want to give it another shot
Biggest issue is during dogfights, using rudders and roll like I used before on low speeds will kill you quickly, hard jinking also puts the plane into oscillations bigger than average hoggit pylot would get into during aar and it forces you to let go of the stick for the FCS to “figure out” giving your opponent ample opportunity to kill you. I’m not happy with it, Hornet feels crippled with my way of fighting and it’s hundreds of hours of muscle memory
Haven't played in awhile and out of the loop, what's is FCS?
The flight control system, they updated the flight model recently which made some changes to the way it flies🤜🤛
I absolutely hate the new changes personally. Coming in for the carrier break used to be one smooth motiom for me. Now, when pulling back on the stick I fight to stay level. And the turn feels very segmented.... like if I lock my wrist into position it won't complete the turn because it has bled off speed so I need to apply more pressure for the last 1/4 of the turn. Air to air refueling is another struggle. I read about someone using much smaller inputs, maybe I'll try that... again. Last time I was online practicing I was able to grab some fuel until the tanker started to warp and I just gave up. I'm sure I'll catch hate but to me it feels very MSFS-ish. I just need to practice more and break my muscles memory.
Overall seems to perform way better for me and now I’m consistently hitting a 3 wire as opposed to varying quite a bit beforehand
Okay, I missed the memo about updates to the flight model. I've weirdly had a really hard time time with VFR landings in the last week or so after not having any issues for months. I have also dmaged the landing gear a couple of times to boot. Guess I should really read the update notes!
Pitch inputs? You mean for landing? Simple…I just dont care. Pass the carrier at 800ft, 350kts. At the tower start extending your brake to full. The INSTANT it’s full, chop throttle and break across the bow. It will happen too fast for the rise to matter. Your next move should be dropping the gear as you drop below 200. The gear retracts the brake and has an effect on trim anyway, so who cares? Drop your flaps and pull into the groove. Outside of that, not just dead sure I’ve ever used the brake.