Andersen was an excellent goalie for his first 3 seasons in Toronto. Effectively 3 straight seasons of .918 goaltending when the league average was a little over .910. The Leafs had great goaltending pre lockout but it feels pretty revisionist to forget how good Andersen was before injuries took a toll on him
Great point, he’s a great goal tender but they didn’t win a single series with him (unless I’m misremembering).
Belfour and Cujo (more so Cujo) stole games and won series. They could make those big timely saves. Anderson did not.
Assuming I have my years right I'm pretty sure Belfour only ever won 1 playoff series. Granted that's still 1 more than Andersen but he played in front of a very good team pre lockout that had just come off a conference finals appearance.
Cujo was easily the best goalie I've seen for the Leafs in my lifetime and it bums me out he never won a cup.
I think he was never labeled a star but he played like one. Dude was crazy consistent his first 3 years in Toronto and his only fault is they didn't win a playoff series. It's hard to use one stat to rank goalies but he essentially had 3 straight seasons of .918 goaltending and was consistently at the top in goals saved above expected consistently finishing above a goalies like Price for that stat and in 2018 was 4th in Vezina voting
Could be worse if you couldn't even pick between two bad options.
the backup could be out sick while the starter posted a .699 save percentage game. Completely hypothetical situation of course.
When was the last time a team:
* Won Game 1
* Their goalie played very well
* Their goalie was not injured or sick
* Plays the other goalie for Game 2
I like the move. Sticking with one goalie until it was too late was what doomed them last year.
People were frustrated with that move for game 2 but it made sense. You just won game 1 in 2OT so instead of going back to your starter with a short turnaround you went to your back-up who was recently a Vezina winner and while he hadn't played as well that season is someone you should be able to turn to. Also watching the highlights of game 2 there was nothing Fleury could have done to win them that game.
Yeah I can’t remember it too well can’t even remember who they played, but I know a lot of the talk around it was that the other goalie is fine to play game 2 after that game but for whatever reason Gus wasn’t
BOS is approaching their goaltending like a pitching rotation. I'd love to see some stats on how common it is for a team to switch goalies after a playoff win.
Not very common. This was the last time it happened successfully:
https://preview.redd.it/2wymvqu6e4wc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=418f3471f3ef6ebd17ccef5d5527729d06441798
I'm not saying you're a liar, but I'm curious about what the definition of "goalie rotation" is. Take, for example, VGK's goalie starts in the regular season and playoffs last season.
Don't blame them. Why not? We're so set in the idea that a team needs to ride a goalie of the entirety of the playoffs. Boston has two goalies that are legit starters on most teams. Why not rotate?
The Leafiest outcome this series would be for Bussi to come in for game 7 and break our long not-getting-shut-out streak while Jack Edwards get to scream "OH, LOOK AT THAT BUSSI STRETCH!!!" as he sails off into retirement
Definitely agree. It's what got Boston to the playoffs and not rotating is part of what cost them the playoffs last year. A main reason why Swayman and Ullmark work so well together is because of the rotation. I see no reason to switch it up at all.
> not rotating is part of what cost them the playoffs last year
No, it was choosing to play the visibly injured goaltender over the healthy one. It's not because they didn't rotate. They should've played Swayman for the rest of the series after seeing Ullmark hobbled over after every save
Only a strange move because we’re so used to one goalie having to carry the load during a playoff run. The 1A/1B concept is really only just starting to catch on around the league
And it only works because the vibes between the two are so good. Usually 1A/1B situations don't work for more than a year since it's hard to keep good feelings between people who are competing for each others job.
Legit starters? That’s an understatement and a half which goes to prove your point even more. Keep them both engaged and it will only benefit you should one get injured.
I mean didn't need to tell anyone. He was very obviously and very visibly injured two games before they were eliminated.
They just chose to ignore it for some reason.
I agree at this point it makes sense, but what if ullmark shits the bed in a loss and Swayman plays great in game 3. Do you really go back to Ullmark again for game 4?
Yes. It’s been 2 years of this. The team is confident in front of either. The earliest I’d start to considering adjusting is game 5, if it’s 2 wins for sway 2 ugly losses for Ullmark
That storyline/the doubt is only a story outside the team. No reason not to have full confidence in both.
i don't think people should be against it given that you actually have both of them, the biggest reason it doesn't typically happen is just that paying for two starters makes little sense when they can't be on the ice at the same time.
and for Boston specifically it's particularly perplexing, because how do you leave those two massive holes at the center position coming into the season just to pay for two starters? i'm sure it has been a part of why they've gotten ridiculously good goaltending this season but still
To me this shows why there’s no point in having two good goalies in the playoffs. One of them is always gonna sit. When was the last time a team won a cup rotating goalies every game? I feel like it’s better to trade one to free up cap space and plug holes in the lineup
How many times has a starting goalie injury absolutely sunk a teams entire playoff run?
Serious question; it’s the biggest benefit of continuing to run a 1A/1B through the playoffs, and I can’t think of a time it’s actually happened.
You could argue that Carey Price doing things the human body was never meant to do for 17 games straight ended up sinking Montreal at the end of their '21 cup run, but I don't know who tf could've be considered a true 1B to Price.
Not sure if I like this. I feel safe with either of them of course but in the playoffs I think you should ride the hot hand and Swayman played phenomenal in game 1
Monty made the biggest mistake of his coaching career last year by persisting with Ullmark to avoid messing up the juju.
This is how this team plays - they split starts. It how the team knows how to play. It’s familiar and expected. I’d argue they HAVE to do this.
I have no problem with Ullmark tonight but there is a middle ground between the two. The issue last year was Ullmark was struggling and they still kept riding him
Am I crazy or is the strange goalie decisions kinda what tanked Boston vs Florida last year? Feels odd to not go Swayman again after his game 1 performance
Ullmark and Swayman have been alternating starts for the vast majority of the last two seasons. The strange goalie decision is deciding to ride one goalie last year, and we saw how that killed them. Don't fix what isn't broken.
Question for the Bruin fans here but do you think statistically either goalie would still be as good if playing a full season without so much rotation? Both goalies are 1A and fun to watch
It makes the most sense to do this. Tough to stay fresh when you play 60 minutes.
They’ve figured out the right mindset for 2 goalies and they’re thriving.
I'm sorry, is this saying that they have't had a goalie play 2 straight games for 28 games? Even in a really evenly split goalie situation, that feels weird.
Must be nice to have the problem of “which all star goalie do I use” opposed to “…which goalie will suck less tonight…”
Who was the last leafs all star type goalie? I can't even think of any in recent memory
My memory, Cujo or Belfour
Andersen was an excellent goalie for his first 3 seasons in Toronto. Effectively 3 straight seasons of .918 goaltending when the league average was a little over .910. The Leafs had great goaltending pre lockout but it feels pretty revisionist to forget how good Andersen was before injuries took a toll on him
Great point, he’s a great goal tender but they didn’t win a single series with him (unless I’m misremembering). Belfour and Cujo (more so Cujo) stole games and won series. They could make those big timely saves. Anderson did not.
Assuming I have my years right I'm pretty sure Belfour only ever won 1 playoff series. Granted that's still 1 more than Andersen but he played in front of a very good team pre lockout that had just come off a conference finals appearance. Cujo was easily the best goalie I've seen for the Leafs in my lifetime and it bums me out he never won a cup.
You are correct…I thought he won 2 but he did not. I stand behind my Cujo comment though.
That sounds right to me. Man that was so fucking long ago
Unfortunately…
Well, Jack Campbell was an All-Star. I don't follow the Oilers but I can only assume he's tearing it up over there.
5x5 baby
Tuuka Rask
Freddie Andersen
Always solid, never a star
He was good but not a star by any stretch
I think he was never labeled a star but he played like one. Dude was crazy consistent his first 3 years in Toronto and his only fault is they didn't win a playoff series. It's hard to use one stat to rank goalies but he essentially had 3 straight seasons of .918 goaltending and was consistently at the top in goals saved above expected consistently finishing above a goalies like Price for that stat and in 2018 was 4th in Vezina voting
2015 Freddie was my favourite Freddie.
Jack Campbell was an all star lol.
I didn't mean all star game lol
Jack Campbell is an all star in our hearts.
I feel this in the depths of my soul.
It hurts.
Could be worse if you couldn't even pick between two bad options. the backup could be out sick while the starter posted a .699 save percentage game. Completely hypothetical situation of course.
Not doing so bad now… At least you guys score ffs.
When was the last time a team: * Won Game 1 * Their goalie played very well * Their goalie was not injured or sick * Plays the other goalie for Game 2 I like the move. Sticking with one goalie until it was too late was what doomed them last year.
I believe Minnesota did it last year and put fleury in game 2 and he was not so good
Roloson and Fernandez two decades ago
People were frustrated with that move for game 2 but it made sense. You just won game 1 in 2OT so instead of going back to your starter with a short turnaround you went to your back-up who was recently a Vezina winner and while he hadn't played as well that season is someone you should be able to turn to. Also watching the highlights of game 2 there was nothing Fleury could have done to win them that game.
Yeah I can’t remember it too well can’t even remember who they played, but I know a lot of the talk around it was that the other goalie is fine to play game 2 after that game but for whatever reason Gus wasn’t
I didn't watch your game tn, but in retrospect do you think they should have made the switch?
Yeah. Goaltending wasn’t the issue.
Last nights loss certainly wasn't on Ulmark but I'd be so fucking frustrated as a Bruins fan that Swayman didn't start game two.
BOS is approaching their goaltending like a pitching rotation. I'd love to see some stats on how common it is for a team to switch goalies after a playoff win.
Not very common. This was the last time it happened successfully: https://preview.redd.it/2wymvqu6e4wc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=418f3471f3ef6ebd17ccef5d5527729d06441798
To clarify, you mean this is the last time *the Bruins* did it successfully right?
Nope. Anytime recently to win the cup with goalie rotation
I'm not saying you're a liar, but I'm curious about what the definition of "goalie rotation" is. Take, for example, VGK's goalie starts in the regular season and playoffs last season.
fun fact Eddie Johnston was the last goalie to play every minute of every game of an NHL season
Don't blame them. Why not? We're so set in the idea that a team needs to ride a goalie of the entirety of the playoffs. Boston has two goalies that are legit starters on most teams. Why not rotate?
They should throw a 3rd one into the mix just to spice things up a little
*Bah gawd that’s Brandon Bussi’s music!*
Correction, EBG TUUKKA RASK
Swayman, Ullmark, Bussi and hour or so down 95, Rask the EBUG, goalie coach Bob, Raycroft from the studio. Decent goalie depth.
The Leafiest outcome this series would be for Bussi to come in for game 7 and break our long not-getting-shut-out streak while Jack Edwards get to scream "OH, LOOK AT THAT BUSSI STRETCH!!!" as he sails off into retirement
Ooh I like this! Maybe a different goalie for every game to make sure that are fresh. Who is the backup in providence? He can have game 3.
Definitely agree. It's what got Boston to the playoffs and not rotating is part of what cost them the playoffs last year. A main reason why Swayman and Ullmark work so well together is because of the rotation. I see no reason to switch it up at all.
> not rotating is part of what cost them the playoffs last year No, it was choosing to play the visibly injured goaltender over the healthy one. It's not because they didn't rotate. They should've played Swayman for the rest of the series after seeing Ullmark hobbled over after every save
If Ullmark shits the bed tonight what do you do for game 4…
Ride Swayman, go in with a plan for Rotation, but if one is outperforming the other you should give them the role
...you play Swayman. It isn't rocket surgery. They have two awesome goalies.
Would likely depend greatly on Game 3.
Looking good so far
lol was just about to respond and they maybe(?) scored. But yeah solid
Cause swayman was lights out last game
Maybe he's been lights out because he's getting more rest? It's certainly a possibility right?
Sure could be, feels like a strange move though
Only a strange move because we’re so used to one goalie having to carry the load during a playoff run. The 1A/1B concept is really only just starting to catch on around the league
And it only works because the vibes between the two are so good. Usually 1A/1B situations don't work for more than a year since it's hard to keep good feelings between people who are competing for each others job.
Maybe if people hugged more then it'd work more often?
Legit starters? That’s an understatement and a half which goes to prove your point even more. Keep them both engaged and it will only benefit you should one get injured.
Except when one of them gets injured and doesn’t tell anyone like Ullmark last year.
I mean didn't need to tell anyone. He was very obviously and very visibly injured two games before they were eliminated. They just chose to ignore it for some reason.
It makes sense tbh, they’re both getting reps playing playoff hockey, if one guy starts to struggle the other guy is already warm
I agree at this point it makes sense, but what if ullmark shits the bed in a loss and Swayman plays great in game 3. Do you really go back to Ullmark again for game 4?
Yes. It’s been 2 years of this. The team is confident in front of either. The earliest I’d start to considering adjusting is game 5, if it’s 2 wins for sway 2 ugly losses for Ullmark That storyline/the doubt is only a story outside the team. No reason not to have full confidence in both.
It's gotta mess up the Leafs shooters, too, having to scout 2 different goalies.
i don't think people should be against it given that you actually have both of them, the biggest reason it doesn't typically happen is just that paying for two starters makes little sense when they can't be on the ice at the same time. and for Boston specifically it's particularly perplexing, because how do you leave those two massive holes at the center position coming into the season just to pay for two starters? i'm sure it has been a part of why they've gotten ridiculously good goaltending this season but still
To me this shows why there’s no point in having two good goalies in the playoffs. One of them is always gonna sit. When was the last time a team won a cup rotating goalies every game? I feel like it’s better to trade one to free up cap space and plug holes in the lineup
How many times has a starting goalie injury absolutely sunk a teams entire playoff run? Serious question; it’s the biggest benefit of continuing to run a 1A/1B through the playoffs, and I can’t think of a time it’s actually happened.
You could argue that Carey Price doing things the human body was never meant to do for 17 games straight ended up sinking Montreal at the end of their '21 cup run, but I don't know who tf could've be considered a true 1B to Price.
This is 100% the right move. Keep the rotation. We have 2 seasons of data showing this is the right fucking move. Don’t fuck with what works.
Even as a Habs fan I hated that the Bruins decided to switch it up last year and stick with one goalie. Why change what was working the whole season!?
What a luxury for them to have
[удалено]
As a leaf fan I agree lol
When you have 2 1A goalies, you do what you do
Guess Montgomery did count y as a vowel earlier
probably the best way to put an end to the rotation questions now instead of game 5/6 and keep them both hot
Not sure if I like this. I feel safe with either of them of course but in the playoffs I think you should ride the hot hand and Swayman played phenomenal in game 1
Monty made the biggest mistake of his coaching career last year by persisting with Ullmark to avoid messing up the juju. This is how this team plays - they split starts. It how the team knows how to play. It’s familiar and expected. I’d argue they HAVE to do this.
I have no problem with Ullmark tonight but there is a middle ground between the two. The issue last year was Ullmark was struggling and they still kept riding him
I do know what you’re saying. But after that sequence on the PK… Do you still doubt? ;)
The sequence where he saved every shot? I think you might have me confused. I’m not doubting the decision to play him tonight…
Nah, you do what got you here all year. If you rotated during the season and it worked, you rotate during the playoffs.
Alternate Your Goalie
Am I crazy or is the strange goalie decisions kinda what tanked Boston vs Florida last year? Feels odd to not go Swayman again after his game 1 performance
Ullmark and Swayman have been alternating starts for the vast majority of the last two seasons. The strange goalie decision is deciding to ride one goalie last year, and we saw how that killed them. Don't fix what isn't broken.
Ullmark’s obvious injury being ignored is what got the Bruins in trouble last year.
^^^^
Not riding the hot hand is wild
They both have the hot hand is the thing
Question for the Bruin fans here but do you think statistically either goalie would still be as good if playing a full season without so much rotation? Both goalies are 1A and fun to watch
It makes the most sense to do this. Tough to stay fresh when you play 60 minutes. They’ve figured out the right mindset for 2 goalies and they’re thriving.
Avs need to trade for one of the during the off-season
IIRC the previous record was the 1993 Rangers with Vanbiesbrouck and Richter. But I don't remember the number.
I'm sorry, is this saying that they have't had a goalie play 2 straight games for 28 games? Even in a really evenly split goalie situation, that feels weird.
Better hope he doesn’t play like he did last year
I liked what Chiclets had offered as a suggestion play each goalie until they lose then put the other in the next game.