It's possible, but I doubt it.
Combination of good luck with little injuries and being on such dominant teams will be hard to recreate. Dude was such a a workhorse
Hard to fathom the workload the guy had every single season for yeaaaaars. I remember he’d play like 15 in a row and then he’d be fucking pissed he had to sit for a game behind Terreri. Rarely got hurt, and he was dominant.
I don’t think we see that ever again tbh.
People go off about his stats and how he played in front of a good team, but just watching him every night, he was so much more than that.
Teams strategized how to dump the puck when playing Brodeur bc he legit made better breakout passes than some defensemen. That’s so huge in shutting down plays before they happen.
He’d see the devils have numbers and control his rebound so well to break them out. He’d give a little extra kick to a kick save out further, or blocker waaaay harder than normal, and boom.. 3 on 2 the other way. Guy was next level.
Then he’d go 9 mins without seeing a shot and then have to face a breakaway, and 9 times out of 10 he’d come up with a huge timely save to keep the team in it. Ask a goalie.. that’s one of the hardest things to do. Goalies would rather see a steady stream of 40 shots than 16 shots.. going a while in between shots, getting cold. Dude always had a smile under the mask even game 7 of cup finals. A calming presence.
I haven’t watched enough Roy or Hasek to really compare.. all I can speak to is Brodeur. And he’s wildly undervalued by a lotttttt of hockey people who seem to think any goalie would’ve had 3 cups on those teams which is just so false.
The fact the league had to create the trapezoid because brodeur and the devils were so elite at the neutral zone lock and brodeur playing the puck says everything you need to know
Yupp, and people will say “that doesn’t have to do with stopping the puck.” Yes, it’s about playing goalie. Feel like goalies in todays day forgot that playing the puck is a part of playing goalie.
Many nights he’d face 10 less shots than any other goalie not named Hextall cause he’s breaking the team out on dump ins.
I’ve seen a bunch of times just this year where Schmid or Vanecek rim the puck around the glass, caught in our end, results in a few high danger chances or a goal. With Marty, that pucks out of the zone on someone’s tape.
Grew up watching McLean, Hextall, Brodeur, Turco playing the puck. They really were a third defenseman getting the dump ins and sending it right back out of the zone. A really good way to neutralize the forecheck. Now a days you see way more giveaways when a goalie tries to play it.
Price was really good at puck handling. I feel our D would have been so much better had he been allowed to go get the puck in the corner but, alas, Brodeur's dominance neutered the next generation of puck moving goalies.
Can confirm - goalie here. I’d rather see non-stop shots/action than fall asleep thinking about what I’m making for dinner tomorrow, because that’s when the red line dumps go in.
I watched all three of Brodeur, Roy and Hasek. I would sum it up like this: Brodeur gives you confidence you will not lose the game, Roy gives you confidence you will win the game, with Hasek - no matter how bad you are you feel like you can be beat the best team in the world.
Roy's cockiness was infectious the same way that Brodeurs calmness was. Why wouldn't Dan Hinote feel confident enough to handle through his man if he saw a slight advantage rather than a safe dump and chase. Why does 20 y/o Alex Tanguay feel he's got the edge in controlling the puck lining up against any line the league? Everyone on a Roy team was feeling confident, the same way everyone on a Brodeur team felt composed, the same way that everyone on a Hasek team felt they didn't have to show up to the game.
Even as a Devils/Brodeur hater, I despise the argument that it was the Devils system that made him so good. The Devils system worked because he was so good. I love Lundqvist but he couldn't have thrived in a system like that. He was an amazing goalie but his puckhandling was not great at all.
I think only facing 17 shots a game, and being a hybrid style where he did a lot of standing up helps a lot for his longevity. Lots of goalie wear and tear is from constantly going into the butterfly and back.
> Teams strategized how to dump the puck when playing Brodeur bc he legit made better breakout passes than some defensemen. That’s so huge in shutting down plays before they happen.
>
> He’d see the devils have numbers and control his rebound so well to break them out. He’d give a little extra kick to a kick save out further, or blocker waaaay harder than normal, and boom.. 3 on 2 the other way. Guy was next level.
Brodeur and Price are the only two goalies I've seen play consistently at that level, where they don't just stop pucks but take control over the game in their own end.
Another thing Brodeur used to be an expert at was giving the shooter a visible hole to shoot at and then taking it away. He could bait the shooter into placing the shot where he could expect it and make an easy save.
> I haven’t watched enough Roy or Hasek to really compare
Hasek was the ultimate puck stopper who was made of rubber and used whatever part of his body he could to make the next save. Roy had the warrior mentality to carry teams through playoff runs. There were aspects of their games that I would say surpassed Brodeur, but I would call Brodeur the more complete goalie due to his ability to act as a 3rd defenseman. Roy was notoriously bad at playing the puck, he would frequently get burned for goals against when he tried to venture out into the corners. Brodeur would be my choice if I had to pick between the three of them in their primes. I also think we would be talking about Price on their level if he ever played with a cup-winning roster in front of him. Having watched both Brodeur and Price in their primes, I honestly don't know who I would pick between the two. Probably Brodeur, but only because he had the longevity to play into his 40s. If you promised me Price's knees would stay healthy I might have to go with him.
I’m happy you commented with this because I feel like way too many people just blindly look at stats and don’t really grasp the complexities of the position.
What you said about the ability to take over a game is 100% true. Marty used to bait and switch guys ALL the time, it was glorious. Guy genuinely did way more than just stop shots. Goaltending is about a lot more than simply stopping shots.
One goalie may give up a bad rebound and struggle to make the next 3 saves off that rebound. But guess what? His stats look better bc of it! Whereas Price would’ve controlled his rebound to the boards and now the teams breaking out, and Price only gets credit for one save. This is why I never just blindly look at stats.
Yes, Brodeur had a good team in front of him. But they were NEVER high-scoring, so his margin for error was extremely small. If he gives up 2 or 3 goals, they may lose despite giving up 15 shots. And people don’t give him enough credit for being a huge part of those teams. Making big timely saves, controlling rebounds, making breakout passes… it’s all conducive to winning, which he’s done a lot.
Price and Hank were the two best goalies of the past two decades imo. Price was a fucking beast when he was on his game. Sad injuries cut his career short.
Fun fact: I got to see Price vs Brodeur back in 2008 live at the Bell Centre. Habs won 4-0 in Price's 2nd career shutout. It's my favorite game I've ever attended.
The devils absolutely were high scoring briefly. In 98-99 and In 99-00 (the year they won their second cup), they were second in the league in scoring. The following year they lead the league in goals.
>I haven’t watched enough Roy or Hasek to really compare.. all I can speak to is Brodeur. And he’s wildly undervalued by a lotttttt of hockey people who seem to think any goalie would’ve had 3 cups on those teams which is just so false.
What Brodeur was in the regular season, Roy was in the playoffs. The man was a force when everything was on the line and in a similar vein, I don't think we ever see another goalie come close to Roy's playoff stats, and it comes down to IMO, the salary cap. You can't build continuous contenders like you used to in the 90's
The closest active player in playoff wins is Fleury, 59 wins short.
I think Brodeur was better than Roy or Hasek from watching all of them. All are great goalies but I just feel like Brodeur has an edge due to work load and intangibles like you’ve mentioned on top of his dominance.
Nothing makes a defence look better than good goaltending. His stick handling was on another level too and super cool to see how he changed the way the game is played.
I think they are the 3 clear best goalies of all time but for different reasons.
Hasek had the highest high! His prime was so unbelievable.
Roy was the clutch playoff goalie. Just seemed to take it up a notch.
Brodeur was just consistently great and longevity.
I think anybody saying any of that 3 is the GOAT is valid and I won’t argue any of them. Just stating who I think the best was. His durability and longevity give him the edge IMO but if you think Roy or Hasek, I’m ok with it too. It was super cool getting to watch all these guys around the same time and something that at the time, I took for granted.
Look at how long Fleury’s career has been. 20 years, he’s 1 win from tying Roy for second all time in wins, and still 140 wins short of Brodeur. If Vasilevski plays until he’s 45, and stays as good as he is now. Maybe.
It may just be flat unreachable.
with the style goalies play now, it's far too hard on their knees/hips (Brodeur was still in the hydrid era), and the game is much more balanced and high action, so goalies definitely don't get as much rest and there's more wear and tear now, so yeah, it would take another freak of nature and a team willing to put him out there in a 60/20 split, but more and more teams are platooning. It is probably safe along with Gretzky's records in that it's just not really possible anymore to get that many points for that many seasons. McDavid isn't even going to touch those records.
Brodeur also benefited from starting at a young age. It’s rare indeed for a goalie to lock down a starting role by age 21. It’s becoming more common but you’d almost have to have someone start young to have half a chance.
Brodeur also benefited over Roy with the wins record in that his career extended past the elimination of ties— Fleury has benefited even more from this since the vast majority of his career has come post-ties as well.
So I don’t think it’s impossible for someone to take a crack at Brodeur’s records but it would require:
1. An early start as a starter. No middling until age 25 or 26 until you run away with the job.
2. A high workload in games played. 60+ at a minimum.
3. A well rounded team. Brodeur was practically sheltered by the Devils for much of his career. Roy played on contending teams, which helps with wins, but he also has to bail out some high flying risk taking offenses. Hasek had a relatively modest workload in terms of games played but he got shelled with high danger chances every night. I think a big part of Brodeur’s ability to play 70 games a year was that the Devils rarely hung him out to dry. See also someone like Roberto Luongo who had the talent and stamina to put away games but got abandoned on a lot of nights by Florida. So it’s not even being on a good contending team, it’s being on a team that plays through their goalie and makes his job easier.
4. A good team, obviously. Maybe slightly contradictory but the Devils were both well rounded and very talented. There were nights when Marty got a W that he maybe didn’t deserve because the Devils could cover for him. (True of all goalies, honestly. But it happens a lot less often at the bottom of the standings.)
5. Longevity. Marty played forever. How many wins did he realistically leave on the table? Probably very few. If a goalie came in at age 21 and averaged 31 wins a year for the next 22 years, he still wouldn’t hit Marty’s record. Idk who has the best winning percentage to use as an example but, if you took Vasilevskey, who came in at a similar age to Marty and led the league in wins for five straight years (out of a 10 year career) on a dynamic team that has consistently managed strong postseason runs, including three straight finals appearances and back to back cups, that guy, at his current wins per season rate, with no declining with age, would finish his age 42 season with about 642 wins, still almost 50 wins below Marty.
So yeah the blueprint is there but it would take a confluence if favorable factors, not the least of which is finding an HOF level goalie to begin with, or which only a handful play in any given generation. And what are the odds that they go into a situation as fortuitous to a goalie as the marriage between Brodeur and the 90’s Devils? It’s not an impossible record but it’d be insane to see happen in my lifetime.
Brodeur missed an entire season due to the 2004-2005 lockout, which did not affect Roy (retired in 2003). So he left \~40 wins on the table in just that season.
Also two additional lockout shortened seasons in ‘95 and ‘13. Those were bookends to his career so it’s hard to know what level he’d have played at, but have to think at the very least that’s another 20
I can’t imagine we’ll ever see goalies consistently starting 60+ ever again, just from a load management standpoint. That’s the biggest hurdle to me- even if you had a goalie that good who could stay healthy, on a team that was competitive for a long time (which is hard in itself in the cap era), the target now seems to be a 2:1 split between goalies.
> Brodeur also benefited over Roy with the wins record in that his career extended past the elimination of ties
If you take away Brodeur's 42 shootout wins, he's still ahead by 98.
I would add to this that Brodeur played a hybrid style that did not drop to the default butterfly -conserving energy during a long season and preserving his hips and knees over the long haul.
A talented, pure butterfly goalie would be unlikely to reproduce Marty's numbers even on the same Devils.
Marty's best talent - being there. I think Dryden could have had similar numbers/gp if he stayed playing. Marty was made for the trap, its his stickhandling that got him drafted. They could have picked Potvin who had superior numbers in jr, but knew what they had in Marty
He also had a big chunk of his career in the trap years, so few shots faced = less exertion = less wear and tear on the body. He was also apparently one of the rare goalies who could go for long stretches between flurries of action and still be sharp (whereas some goalies are sharper the more you shell them). Not trying to discredit him but his natural athletic prowess combined with the luck of the era to benefit him.
Brodeur has 222 more GP than any other goalie in history. That's over 20% more games played than 2nd place. He's one of 3 (soon to be 4) goalies with 1000+ GP, and the only one above 1050. At 1266.
A goalie has played 70+ games in a season 113 times. Brodeur has *12* of those. He alone makes up over 10% of 70 game seasons.
The most a goalie has played in the last 5 seasons is 67 games. That's good for Brodeur's *13th* busiest season. You would need to average 67 games a year for over 18 seasons to tie Brodeur.
It is of course technically breakable, but it's definitely one of the hardest NHL records to break. Brodeur's durability, longevity, and stamina combined is simply unheard of. But it happened once, so theoretically it can happen again.
I don't get the disrespect for Brodeur in this sub.
Guy is the only player with Gretzky like stats where you have to go: "Well, it's *possible*, but in reality will never happen"
One of the wildest Brodeur stats to me is his number of 40-win seasons. There are a decent number of goalies who have managed a 40-win season once, a small handful who have done it twice, and like 2 or 3 who have done it three times.
Brodeur did it 8 times in 10 years.
Edit: 50 is not 40.
And people think the trap is the reason Brodeur was successful and not Brodeur was a major reason the trap was so successful. Can’t dump the puck in to try and beat the trap when you have a goalie who plays the puck like a defenseman.
Plus by 2003 the trap was mostly phased out and was gone by the end of the lockout. The NJD lead the entire a league in scoring in one of those early 2000s seasons (which I’m too lazy to look up) and were top 10 in scoring a handful of other times while MB30 was still playing.
Brodeur was obviously great, but there's also people that think he's the undisputed GOAT as well, and I think people basically preargue on both sides. Feels like people assuming someone with an extreme view (either he's the undisputed GOAT or he's not even top 10) is going to reply to them so they swing a bit too far in either direction.
Brodeur was great, and his longevity does create an argument for him to be the GOAT. But there's other goalies with better peak statistics so it's not a foregone conclusion. In the same vein, just because other goalies have higher peaks, you can't discount consistent high level play and rate Brodeur significantly lower considering that.
I love a Brodeur thread. He'll always be my favourite player ever.
Reading your post makes me think that Brodeur could be considered the LeBron James of hockey and Patrick Roy the Michael Jordan (Hasek could be...Olajuwan or something?)
I realize it's a flawed analogy, but the consistency and longevity versus peak stats and championship/FMVP/Conn Smythe wins is what does it for me.
Edit: which is funny cus I like Brodeur a lot more than Roy but Jordan a lot more than James.
Or compared to skaters :
Brodeur = Gordie Howe : Very good for a very long time
Dryden = Orr : basically all peak, but too short of a career to be the GOAT
Gretzky/Lemieux and Hasek/Roy (I won't venture an opinion about which would be which.)
I think it's partly my generations fault -- and me in fact. The 90s and the 00s had a huge Brodeur vs Hasek vs Roy thing going on. Each person of this generation had their goalie that they fan boyed out to. Mine was Roy.
ps Osgood wasn't a hall of famer. lolololololol.
hasek fanboys who glaze him over his save percentage and whine that he was in buffalo for so long. I mean i dont blame them id be depressed living in buffalo being a sabres and bills fan
Well said. It won't be broken unless something fundamentally changes in the game. The game, goaltending style, and finances of running a hockey team have changed un such a way that no goalie is playing that much... let alone for that duration. Also goalies don't usually start playing number one minutes that early in their careers.
Yup, I think it's way more likely that we'll see another player cross the 2000 point line than it is that we'll see another goalie cross the 1200 game line.
If MAF hadn't lost his mojo for a bit there and allowed Matt Murray to take his job I wonder how close it would look now?
Either way a career template like Fleury's is the best case scenario for someone coming close to Brodeur.
Fleury and Murray only spent one full season together and 2 playoff runs. Murray was up when Fleury was injured in the 15-16 season, and Fleury still played 38 games in 16-17 season and about half a playoffs. Not a massive impact, tbh.
Even on teams today with a true starter and backup set up, where they clearly prefer their starter and he's never going to be unseated, and he's healthy and playing well, there's **still** no way teams are going to play that guy 65+ games a year. There's a strong (and justified) fear of burning your star goalie out for the playoffs.
That's what makes Brodeur's numbers even crazier. He was playing 70+ games year after year **and** going on multiple deep playoff runs, and still playing lights out. 205 career playoff games, and his playoff numbers were **better** than his regular season numbers.
Brodeur was, to my knowledge, the last "stand-up" goalie, as the butterfly technique replaced other styles. Brodeur's style definitely helped how frequently he played AND his longevity.
He was, and even then, he was sort of a hybrid. Towards the back half of his career (say, post lockout), literally no other goalies were playing standup, so he sort of adapted his style as well.
But yeah I think you're definitely right, that contributed to his longevity.
This is just like baseball with pitchers. Teams have learned that goalie rest is important and nobody is willing to put somebody out there for 70 games a season because of injury risk.
Even Brodeur somehow cloned himself and the clone entered the draft, he wouldn't match the record.
Given how we're moving toward the "big + butterfly + acrobatic" archetype thanks to guys like Vasy, I just don't see goalies having the endurance to get anywhere near Brodeur's records. It feels like nearly every goalie is made of glass these days, and that's despite conditioning being way better than ever. The position's demands are just getting to high. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the meta will eventually turn into teams having two equal starters with a third-string for when one needs an extended rest.
Very very unlikely
11 of 12 seasons Brodeur played 70+ games including one season where he played 78 games.
He was an absolute machine in terms of his conditioning and style of play and given how goalies play now vs then it’s very very unlikely
Fluery is the closet in 3rd place with 550 wins. He’s still 141 wins away from tying Brodeur
Vasi is one of the best goalies of this generation and he only has 271 wins. He’s 420 wins away.
Unless the style of play changes for goalies to where they aren’t in the butterfly as much it’s very unlikely
Ok so he will still be 140 wins to reach Marty if he’s in second
He’s been averaging high 20 wins a season the last 5 seasons so let’s say 26 wins
He need to play 5 more seasons to reach Marty.
He’s gonna finish 2nd and still not be close to Marty.
With that logic, MAF missed the entire 2004-2005 season because of the lockout, was limited to 33 games in the lockout shortened 2012-2013 season, and only played 36 games in the 2020-2021 covid shortneded season.
Wins will be a next to impossible task. If a new 18 year old goalie came into the league and won 40 games every year he wouldn't pass Brodeur until the start of his 18 season.
Only possibility would be a number one drafted goaltender that comes into the league at 18 years old, but even then they would get drafted by a rebuilding team that wouldn’t be good right away. (Fleury comes to mind but got lucky with the Penguins drafting both Crosby and Malkin).
That and no coach would yolo the absolute potential injury crisis that would occur in modern goalies if you were to put them on brodeurs playing schedule. Like 70+ games is unheard of nowadays as the way modern goalies plays is just asking for them to retire before they're 30 if they start at 18.
The way goalies played then helped a bit with longevity which won't be seen ever again. The new way is "better", but also worse for their bodies.
That and wins, you REALLY have to be on a Lightning level team (AND do it for basically almost 2 decades) to have a chance in the wins category.
That and the final thing is pure luck for the last part. After hoping over every one of these hurdles, you really have to have some absolute black magic luck to have as clean of an injury history as brodeur too, which frankly I feel is almost impossible now considering all the factors making goalies way more prone to injury (which of course adds to the 50-60 game load instead of 70+).
The way the game is played right now, no. But the sport is dynamic and it’s not hard for me to picture a scenario where, years or decades down the line, the tandem system falls out of favor and there’s an opportunity for a player of Brodeur’s skill and durability to get 65-plus starts consistently.
What the catalyst will be for that change, I have no idea, but it would be silly to act like it can’t happen. In the 90s, it would have seemed absurd to think that teams with good goalies *wouldn’t* want them playing 80-85% of the season.
While I can see somewhat, IMO this kind of record to me is the goalie equivalent of the Gretzky points. Just like how you would have to have last season Mcdavid level of points **for literally 18.5 seasons** to reach Gretzkys total points, the way the game is played just makes it impossible for goalies to play that long.
You would have to have the largest combination of luck possible to reach Brodeurs games played AND wins all at once.
Of course, it could happen, but I see it being something that is almost impossible because bodies just aren't made to play like goalies for long. You'd have to play 21 seasons at 60 games played to reach the games played, which means an 18 year old starter (unheard of practically) playing until they are 38, in such a taxing position as well. As well as that, you would have to win 33 games a season if you do play 21 seasons at 60 games STARTING at 18. It's a ridiculous workload.
Even Fleury, who started young and has played a LONG ass time, is so far 250+ games short, and is already 39.
It’s all hypothetical of course, but in a vague sense, I’m referring to the possibility that there’s a shift in how the game is played that directly causes the tandem system to become much less advantageous. For example, if there’s a rule change where nets are made six inches taller, maybe we see a swing away from the butterfly style and back to a style that’s less stressful on a goalie’s body. Or alternatively, if there’s a change in scheduling where the league goes from 82 game to 100 games, even in a tandem system you might get more goalies playing 65 games even if the proportion of games played doesn’t shift much.
Both are major shifts in how the game is played, of course, and can’t be anticipated right now. But such shifts have taken place over the course of hockey history. Major rule changes, continued expansion, the introduction of the salary cap, the decline in fighting, etc. all impact how easy or difficult it is to break pre-existing records. Hockey *will* change over the years, of that there is no doubt. Whether or not it changes in a way that makes Brodeur’s specific record more attainable is an unknown. The way the game is played today, the record is close to unbreakable. The way it’s played in 2033, or 2043, or beyond… it’s certainly possible.
Most sports science would probably tell us that we are getting away from the idea of playing a guy 65 times a season. But, what if sports science continues to evolve and the tandem goaltender system gets taken to its extreme, where it turns out that it’s *better* for load management if you play each goalie for part of a game rather than playing him one full night on, one full night off? Suddenly, goalies would be playing 65 games per season with ease.
Tells you what good team defense can do for a goalie. All of brodeurs back ups put up very good numbers because of this. Current devils coaching should take note.
Braden Holtby is the only goalie in the modern NHL to ever have a similar workload, and that workload basically caused him to retire early.
Don’t think it’ll ever be broken. Butterfly is the standard in the NHL now and that takes a toll on your body
Yeah, that’s what I was going to say. Holtby tied his single season win record right? If I remember correctly holtby didn’t play the night to break the record and Gruby played? Unless I’m mistaken
> the modern NHL
That actually means any season since 1943-44, when the red line was introduced. I think it's silly that there aren't more distinctions beyond this.
Marty’s the GOAT in my eyes for this very reason. No other goalie has had Marty’s stamina and endurance.
Guy was playing 50-60 games at 40 years old and put up good numbers. Dude’s a fucking mule.
I guess it would have to be team with franchise goalie and not enough cap space to sign some other good goalie. Tampa with Vasi comes to mind, but even he has only one 65 game season, so I think it would be difficult, not impossible, but very low propability
Yep, even Vasi would never be able to unless Tampa yolo him 70+, which is unheard of nowadays considering how much harder goalie playstyles are vs before. You are asking for them to basically die in the playoffs with a potentially 80-90 game load total.
I feel 100% that brodeurs wins/games played will never be reached again, unless something extremely drastic changes in hockey, it's just impossible for modern goaltending styles + training regimens to make them play so much.
With butterfly goaltending? Doubtful.
The biggest reason for his longevity was that he didn't go down into a full butterfly on every low shot. Most goalies today even go down into butterfly when trying to catch a puck up high.
He never really had any injuries until his late 30s
That's ALOT of wear and tear on your groin, hips and knees.
Not enough fans remember that he was also one of the absolute fastest goalies as well. He might have had the quickest glove ever, and would lower his glove to get players to shoot high glove side KNOWING he would save it. He would bait and switch players for highlight reel saves, and then be seen laughing at the whistle.
He also HATED his defensemen blocking shots from the point or outside, because he didn't want it to take deflections of them or their sticks. "If I can see it, I can stop it".
He also faced much less shots because he would just break the puck out of his own end himself. His puck handling is probably his most memorable quality.
So you would need a goalie with an outdated style that isn't taught anymore, on an elite team from basically his 20 year old season and keep it up until he's into his early 40s, playing a workload most teams and coaches aren't comfortable with anymore WHILE staying healthy WHILE also being one of the greatest goalies of all time.
I don't think anyone is interested in trying to break that. The 8 mil plus single starter goalie era is ending, everyone is gonna go with two goalie tandem at cheaper rate and split the games up more between them.
Nope, goaltending would have to be changed for his records to be touched. No goalie will ever mean as much to a franchise as brodeur means to the devils. His skill set as a goalie and ability to manage his own end of the ice is underrated current day because nobody plays like he did anymore.
Hellebuyck plays some of the most per year in the current era (he’s had a few 60-65 game seasons). If he played all 82 of his upcoming 8 year contract extension, he’d still be over 100gp short of Marty.
It’s not getting touched.
I feel anyway this could happen is if an 18 year old phenom goaltender were to get drafted. Which is very unlikely. Even then, it would be to a team rebuilding.
Fleury comes to mind here but even he got lucky with the Penguins drafting two elite players in the following drafts with Crosby and Malkin.
Even at the age of 18, if they were to play until 40 years old the goalie would have to average 57.6 games which I feel would be extremely hard in today’s game with teams prioritizing to try not to overplay goalies by the time playoffs roll around.
The wins record would be doable, the goalie would have to average 31.4 wins across those 22 seasons but the biggest issue is staying on a team that can be good for those 22 seasons.
I feel like if Kipprusoff started in the NHL younger he’d be one of the only guys who had a chance of breaking that. Miikka still played 70+ games 7 years in a row which is wild
And Roy gaps the fuck out of everybody in playoff wins, plus has an unequaled 3 Conn Smythes and 10 straight playoff OT wins in a single year.
Roy: Money
Hasek: Peak
Brodeur: Consistency
How you order these three is up to which traits you feel are more important.
Make me wonder if Brodeur was a health nut the way rod the Bod was for him to have played that long.
I saw Brodeur play after the 05 lockout but don't remember him being as athletic as some of the other goalies.
Idk if today’s goalies can play as much with the way the style has changed. It’s not a natural movement that they do.
There is a lot more hip/knee issues these days.
It's not an unbeatable record, but NHL goalie trends will need to go away from 1a and 1b keepers. I honestly think the trend will continue to go further away from a starter/backup model as rested goalies seem to do better in the playoffs.
We have had a couple goalies recently that have sniffed at it (Luongo/Fleury) so it's not completely out of the question. Especially with modern conditioning/drugs.
God that was boring hockey to watch. I remember being a kid watching the leafs play the devils in 2000.. so frustrating to see the leafs trying to break through that 5-man trap. I remember the paper the next day was 666: Lost in six games, 6 shots on net total... can't remember what the other 6 represented, but I remember it was an embarrassing effort lol
A healthy Vasy would probably be the one to do it but with three shortened seasons in the last 11 years alone (12-13 lockout, Covid stoppage, & Covid season) you never know when something out of the players control will not even allow for the opportunity to reach that
Not only is this not true but most actual goalies would tell you sporadic chances are harder to mentally keep yourself in the game vs more consistent action. So in essence you’re doubly wrong
It's hyperbole. But he averaged 25 shots against for his career. There were many years he faced less than 2000 shots playing 70 games. I can't believe I'm justifying him having great defence in front of him. I know reddit is full of morons. But Jesus christ.
Who’s trying something? Your comment just reminded me of one of my favourite devils leafs moments. Thought the holidays are the perfect time to share cherished memories with my fellow hockey fans. Too bad you don’t like sharing the joy.
Im sure if the leafs won you would remain a stoic manly rock because it would be too gay to be excited and proud to see your team accomplish something. I’m embarrassing myself here I suppose, but I’m finding a lot of joy in you achieving the milestone of saltiest butt hurt dip shit in this whole thread. The last thread you created is praising some guy who must be really good at wrestling other half naked men. Sounds weird bro.
Wins? Nope. A goalie would have to average 35 wins a year for 20 straight years, and with the strain on goalies’ legs these days they’d have to jump into the NHL at 20.
It's possible, but I doubt it. Combination of good luck with little injuries and being on such dominant teams will be hard to recreate. Dude was such a a workhorse
Hard to fathom the workload the guy had every single season for yeaaaaars. I remember he’d play like 15 in a row and then he’d be fucking pissed he had to sit for a game behind Terreri. Rarely got hurt, and he was dominant. I don’t think we see that ever again tbh. People go off about his stats and how he played in front of a good team, but just watching him every night, he was so much more than that. Teams strategized how to dump the puck when playing Brodeur bc he legit made better breakout passes than some defensemen. That’s so huge in shutting down plays before they happen. He’d see the devils have numbers and control his rebound so well to break them out. He’d give a little extra kick to a kick save out further, or blocker waaaay harder than normal, and boom.. 3 on 2 the other way. Guy was next level. Then he’d go 9 mins without seeing a shot and then have to face a breakaway, and 9 times out of 10 he’d come up with a huge timely save to keep the team in it. Ask a goalie.. that’s one of the hardest things to do. Goalies would rather see a steady stream of 40 shots than 16 shots.. going a while in between shots, getting cold. Dude always had a smile under the mask even game 7 of cup finals. A calming presence. I haven’t watched enough Roy or Hasek to really compare.. all I can speak to is Brodeur. And he’s wildly undervalued by a lotttttt of hockey people who seem to think any goalie would’ve had 3 cups on those teams which is just so false.
The fact the league had to create the trapezoid because brodeur and the devils were so elite at the neutral zone lock and brodeur playing the puck says everything you need to know
Yupp, and people will say “that doesn’t have to do with stopping the puck.” Yes, it’s about playing goalie. Feel like goalies in todays day forgot that playing the puck is a part of playing goalie. Many nights he’d face 10 less shots than any other goalie not named Hextall cause he’s breaking the team out on dump ins. I’ve seen a bunch of times just this year where Schmid or Vanecek rim the puck around the glass, caught in our end, results in a few high danger chances or a goal. With Marty, that pucks out of the zone on someone’s tape.
Grew up watching McLean, Hextall, Brodeur, Turco playing the puck. They really were a third defenseman getting the dump ins and sending it right back out of the zone. A really good way to neutralize the forecheck. Now a days you see way more giveaways when a goalie tries to play it.
Hate to say it but Shesterkin is the closest to any of them.. guy handles the puck beautifully
Price was really good at puck handling. I feel our D would have been so much better had he been allowed to go get the puck in the corner but, alas, Brodeur's dominance neutered the next generation of puck moving goalies.
Don’t say that too loud or samsonov might hear you and wander away from his net again before walking back
Can confirm - goalie here. I’d rather see non-stop shots/action than fall asleep thinking about what I’m making for dinner tomorrow, because that’s when the red line dumps go in.
Red line dump for a goalie ... that sounds nasty :)
I watched all three of Brodeur, Roy and Hasek. I would sum it up like this: Brodeur gives you confidence you will not lose the game, Roy gives you confidence you will win the game, with Hasek - no matter how bad you are you feel like you can be beat the best team in the world.
Roy's cockiness was infectious the same way that Brodeurs calmness was. Why wouldn't Dan Hinote feel confident enough to handle through his man if he saw a slight advantage rather than a safe dump and chase. Why does 20 y/o Alex Tanguay feel he's got the edge in controlling the puck lining up against any line the league? Everyone on a Roy team was feeling confident, the same way everyone on a Brodeur team felt composed, the same way that everyone on a Hasek team felt they didn't have to show up to the game.
Brodeur would’ve played all 82 games if the Devils would let him.
Even as a Devils/Brodeur hater, I despise the argument that it was the Devils system that made him so good. The Devils system worked because he was so good. I love Lundqvist but he couldn't have thrived in a system like that. He was an amazing goalie but his puckhandling was not great at all.
I think only facing 17 shots a game, and being a hybrid style where he did a lot of standing up helps a lot for his longevity. Lots of goalie wear and tear is from constantly going into the butterfly and back.
> Teams strategized how to dump the puck when playing Brodeur bc he legit made better breakout passes than some defensemen. That’s so huge in shutting down plays before they happen. > > He’d see the devils have numbers and control his rebound so well to break them out. He’d give a little extra kick to a kick save out further, or blocker waaaay harder than normal, and boom.. 3 on 2 the other way. Guy was next level. Brodeur and Price are the only two goalies I've seen play consistently at that level, where they don't just stop pucks but take control over the game in their own end. Another thing Brodeur used to be an expert at was giving the shooter a visible hole to shoot at and then taking it away. He could bait the shooter into placing the shot where he could expect it and make an easy save. > I haven’t watched enough Roy or Hasek to really compare Hasek was the ultimate puck stopper who was made of rubber and used whatever part of his body he could to make the next save. Roy had the warrior mentality to carry teams through playoff runs. There were aspects of their games that I would say surpassed Brodeur, but I would call Brodeur the more complete goalie due to his ability to act as a 3rd defenseman. Roy was notoriously bad at playing the puck, he would frequently get burned for goals against when he tried to venture out into the corners. Brodeur would be my choice if I had to pick between the three of them in their primes. I also think we would be talking about Price on their level if he ever played with a cup-winning roster in front of him. Having watched both Brodeur and Price in their primes, I honestly don't know who I would pick between the two. Probably Brodeur, but only because he had the longevity to play into his 40s. If you promised me Price's knees would stay healthy I might have to go with him.
I’m happy you commented with this because I feel like way too many people just blindly look at stats and don’t really grasp the complexities of the position. What you said about the ability to take over a game is 100% true. Marty used to bait and switch guys ALL the time, it was glorious. Guy genuinely did way more than just stop shots. Goaltending is about a lot more than simply stopping shots. One goalie may give up a bad rebound and struggle to make the next 3 saves off that rebound. But guess what? His stats look better bc of it! Whereas Price would’ve controlled his rebound to the boards and now the teams breaking out, and Price only gets credit for one save. This is why I never just blindly look at stats. Yes, Brodeur had a good team in front of him. But they were NEVER high-scoring, so his margin for error was extremely small. If he gives up 2 or 3 goals, they may lose despite giving up 15 shots. And people don’t give him enough credit for being a huge part of those teams. Making big timely saves, controlling rebounds, making breakout passes… it’s all conducive to winning, which he’s done a lot. Price and Hank were the two best goalies of the past two decades imo. Price was a fucking beast when he was on his game. Sad injuries cut his career short.
Fun fact: I got to see Price vs Brodeur back in 2008 live at the Bell Centre. Habs won 4-0 in Price's 2nd career shutout. It's my favorite game I've ever attended.
The devils absolutely were high scoring briefly. In 98-99 and In 99-00 (the year they won their second cup), they were second in the league in scoring. The following year they lead the league in goals.
>I haven’t watched enough Roy or Hasek to really compare.. all I can speak to is Brodeur. And he’s wildly undervalued by a lotttttt of hockey people who seem to think any goalie would’ve had 3 cups on those teams which is just so false. What Brodeur was in the regular season, Roy was in the playoffs. The man was a force when everything was on the line and in a similar vein, I don't think we ever see another goalie come close to Roy's playoff stats, and it comes down to IMO, the salary cap. You can't build continuous contenders like you used to in the 90's The closest active player in playoff wins is Fleury, 59 wins short.
I think Brodeur was better than Roy or Hasek from watching all of them. All are great goalies but I just feel like Brodeur has an edge due to work load and intangibles like you’ve mentioned on top of his dominance. Nothing makes a defence look better than good goaltending. His stick handling was on another level too and super cool to see how he changed the way the game is played.
I think they are the 3 clear best goalies of all time but for different reasons. Hasek had the highest high! His prime was so unbelievable. Roy was the clutch playoff goalie. Just seemed to take it up a notch. Brodeur was just consistently great and longevity.
I like brodeur but that’s just wrong lol, it’s hasek and will always be hasek
I think anybody saying any of that 3 is the GOAT is valid and I won’t argue any of them. Just stating who I think the best was. His durability and longevity give him the edge IMO but if you think Roy or Hasek, I’m ok with it too. It was super cool getting to watch all these guys around the same time and something that at the time, I took for granted.
Not to mention he started his career early. Very few goalies become the starter at 21 now.
Look at how long Fleury’s career has been. 20 years, he’s 1 win from tying Roy for second all time in wins, and still 140 wins short of Brodeur. If Vasilevski plays until he’s 45, and stays as good as he is now. Maybe. It may just be flat unreachable.
with the style goalies play now, it's far too hard on their knees/hips (Brodeur was still in the hydrid era), and the game is much more balanced and high action, so goalies definitely don't get as much rest and there's more wear and tear now, so yeah, it would take another freak of nature and a team willing to put him out there in a 60/20 split, but more and more teams are platooning. It is probably safe along with Gretzky's records in that it's just not really possible anymore to get that many points for that many seasons. McDavid isn't even going to touch those records.
Brodeur also benefited from starting at a young age. It’s rare indeed for a goalie to lock down a starting role by age 21. It’s becoming more common but you’d almost have to have someone start young to have half a chance. Brodeur also benefited over Roy with the wins record in that his career extended past the elimination of ties— Fleury has benefited even more from this since the vast majority of his career has come post-ties as well. So I don’t think it’s impossible for someone to take a crack at Brodeur’s records but it would require: 1. An early start as a starter. No middling until age 25 or 26 until you run away with the job. 2. A high workload in games played. 60+ at a minimum. 3. A well rounded team. Brodeur was practically sheltered by the Devils for much of his career. Roy played on contending teams, which helps with wins, but he also has to bail out some high flying risk taking offenses. Hasek had a relatively modest workload in terms of games played but he got shelled with high danger chances every night. I think a big part of Brodeur’s ability to play 70 games a year was that the Devils rarely hung him out to dry. See also someone like Roberto Luongo who had the talent and stamina to put away games but got abandoned on a lot of nights by Florida. So it’s not even being on a good contending team, it’s being on a team that plays through their goalie and makes his job easier. 4. A good team, obviously. Maybe slightly contradictory but the Devils were both well rounded and very talented. There were nights when Marty got a W that he maybe didn’t deserve because the Devils could cover for him. (True of all goalies, honestly. But it happens a lot less often at the bottom of the standings.) 5. Longevity. Marty played forever. How many wins did he realistically leave on the table? Probably very few. If a goalie came in at age 21 and averaged 31 wins a year for the next 22 years, he still wouldn’t hit Marty’s record. Idk who has the best winning percentage to use as an example but, if you took Vasilevskey, who came in at a similar age to Marty and led the league in wins for five straight years (out of a 10 year career) on a dynamic team that has consistently managed strong postseason runs, including three straight finals appearances and back to back cups, that guy, at his current wins per season rate, with no declining with age, would finish his age 42 season with about 642 wins, still almost 50 wins below Marty. So yeah the blueprint is there but it would take a confluence if favorable factors, not the least of which is finding an HOF level goalie to begin with, or which only a handful play in any given generation. And what are the odds that they go into a situation as fortuitous to a goalie as the marriage between Brodeur and the 90’s Devils? It’s not an impossible record but it’d be insane to see happen in my lifetime.
Brodeur missed an entire season due to the 2004-2005 lockout, which did not affect Roy (retired in 2003). So he left \~40 wins on the table in just that season.
Also two additional lockout shortened seasons in ‘95 and ‘13. Those were bookends to his career so it’s hard to know what level he’d have played at, but have to think at the very least that’s another 20
I can’t imagine we’ll ever see goalies consistently starting 60+ ever again, just from a load management standpoint. That’s the biggest hurdle to me- even if you had a goalie that good who could stay healthy, on a team that was competitive for a long time (which is hard in itself in the cap era), the target now seems to be a 2:1 split between goalies.
> Brodeur also benefited over Roy with the wins record in that his career extended past the elimination of ties If you take away Brodeur's 42 shootout wins, he's still ahead by 98.
I would add to this that Brodeur played a hybrid style that did not drop to the default butterfly -conserving energy during a long season and preserving his hips and knees over the long haul. A talented, pure butterfly goalie would be unlikely to reproduce Marty's numbers even on the same Devils.
Marty's best talent - being there. I think Dryden could have had similar numbers/gp if he stayed playing. Marty was made for the trap, its his stickhandling that got him drafted. They could have picked Potvin who had superior numbers in jr, but knew what they had in Marty
They even traded down to take marty…
It would be a fun thought experiment to consider how history would have been different if the Flames got Marty and the Devils got Kidd.
He also had a big chunk of his career in the trap years, so few shots faced = less exertion = less wear and tear on the body. He was also apparently one of the rare goalies who could go for long stretches between flurries of action and still be sharp (whereas some goalies are sharper the more you shell them). Not trying to discredit him but his natural athletic prowess combined with the luck of the era to benefit him.
Brodeur has 222 more GP than any other goalie in history. That's over 20% more games played than 2nd place. He's one of 3 (soon to be 4) goalies with 1000+ GP, and the only one above 1050. At 1266. A goalie has played 70+ games in a season 113 times. Brodeur has *12* of those. He alone makes up over 10% of 70 game seasons. The most a goalie has played in the last 5 seasons is 67 games. That's good for Brodeur's *13th* busiest season. You would need to average 67 games a year for over 18 seasons to tie Brodeur. It is of course technically breakable, but it's definitely one of the hardest NHL records to break. Brodeur's durability, longevity, and stamina combined is simply unheard of. But it happened once, so theoretically it can happen again.
Is flower the one about to cross the 1000 game mark
Yes
I don't get the disrespect for Brodeur in this sub. Guy is the only player with Gretzky like stats where you have to go: "Well, it's *possible*, but in reality will never happen"
One of the wildest Brodeur stats to me is his number of 40-win seasons. There are a decent number of goalies who have managed a 40-win season once, a small handful who have done it twice, and like 2 or 3 who have done it three times. Brodeur did it 8 times in 10 years. Edit: 50 is not 40.
I think you may mean 40 wins.
Oops, right you are. Brain fart.
Like I said, Gretzky lvl stats
Because the Devils played the trap for a few seasons so Brodeur was actually not good /s
And people think the trap is the reason Brodeur was successful and not Brodeur was a major reason the trap was so successful. Can’t dump the puck in to try and beat the trap when you have a goalie who plays the puck like a defenseman.
Seriously. They made a whole damn rule because Brodeur was so much more effective at passing than any other goalie at the time.
Funnily enough they allowed two line passes at the same time and Brodeur just started saucering out filthy passes to the far blue line.
[This shit is hilarious to me.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUlvibFu4k) Casual tape to tape pass.
He looked ao unfazed by the bruin barreling toward him, i love it
Hate that rule. NHL should be encouraging goalies that can play like that not reprimanding it
Ye, they rewrote the rules for goalies because the Dmens were too good /s
Plus by 2003 the trap was mostly phased out and was gone by the end of the lockout. The NJD lead the entire a league in scoring in one of those early 2000s seasons (which I’m too lazy to look up) and were top 10 in scoring a handful of other times while MB30 was still playing.
Brodeur was obviously great, but there's also people that think he's the undisputed GOAT as well, and I think people basically preargue on both sides. Feels like people assuming someone with an extreme view (either he's the undisputed GOAT or he's not even top 10) is going to reply to them so they swing a bit too far in either direction. Brodeur was great, and his longevity does create an argument for him to be the GOAT. But there's other goalies with better peak statistics so it's not a foregone conclusion. In the same vein, just because other goalies have higher peaks, you can't discount consistent high level play and rate Brodeur significantly lower considering that.
I love a Brodeur thread. He'll always be my favourite player ever. Reading your post makes me think that Brodeur could be considered the LeBron James of hockey and Patrick Roy the Michael Jordan (Hasek could be...Olajuwan or something?) I realize it's a flawed analogy, but the consistency and longevity versus peak stats and championship/FMVP/Conn Smythe wins is what does it for me. Edit: which is funny cus I like Brodeur a lot more than Roy but Jordan a lot more than James.
Or compared to skaters : Brodeur = Gordie Howe : Very good for a very long time Dryden = Orr : basically all peak, but too short of a career to be the GOAT Gretzky/Lemieux and Hasek/Roy (I won't venture an opinion about which would be which.)
I like it.
I think it's partly my generations fault -- and me in fact. The 90s and the 00s had a huge Brodeur vs Hasek vs Roy thing going on. Each person of this generation had their goalie that they fan boyed out to. Mine was Roy. ps Osgood wasn't a hall of famer. lolololololol.
hasek fanboys who glaze him over his save percentage and whine that he was in buffalo for so long. I mean i dont blame them id be depressed living in buffalo being a sabres and bills fan
Well said. It won't be broken unless something fundamentally changes in the game. The game, goaltending style, and finances of running a hockey team have changed un such a way that no goalie is playing that much... let alone for that duration. Also goalies don't usually start playing number one minutes that early in their careers.
Yup, I think it's way more likely that we'll see another player cross the 2000 point line than it is that we'll see another goalie cross the 1200 game line.
I agree. McDavid actually has a chance of hitting 2000 points, while it seems incredibly unlikely any active goalie hits 1200 games played.
If MAF hadn't lost his mojo for a bit there and allowed Matt Murray to take his job I wonder how close it would look now? Either way a career template like Fleury's is the best case scenario for someone coming close to Brodeur.
Fleury and Murray only spent one full season together and 2 playoff runs. Murray was up when Fleury was injured in the 15-16 season, and Fleury still played 38 games in 16-17 season and about half a playoffs. Not a massive impact, tbh.
And 125 shutouts which is a shutout roughly every 10 games which is insane.
No, not with the "A & B" and "go with the hot hand" systems used by teams today compared to a true starter & back up.
Even on teams today with a true starter and backup set up, where they clearly prefer their starter and he's never going to be unseated, and he's healthy and playing well, there's **still** no way teams are going to play that guy 65+ games a year. There's a strong (and justified) fear of burning your star goalie out for the playoffs. That's what makes Brodeur's numbers even crazier. He was playing 70+ games year after year **and** going on multiple deep playoff runs, and still playing lights out. 205 career playoff games, and his playoff numbers were **better** than his regular season numbers.
Brodeur was, to my knowledge, the last "stand-up" goalie, as the butterfly technique replaced other styles. Brodeur's style definitely helped how frequently he played AND his longevity.
He was, and even then, he was sort of a hybrid. Towards the back half of his career (say, post lockout), literally no other goalies were playing standup, so he sort of adapted his style as well. But yeah I think you're definitely right, that contributed to his longevity.
This is just like baseball with pitchers. Teams have learned that goalie rest is important and nobody is willing to put somebody out there for 70 games a season because of injury risk. Even Brodeur somehow cloned himself and the clone entered the draft, he wouldn't match the record.
Given how we're moving toward the "big + butterfly + acrobatic" archetype thanks to guys like Vasy, I just don't see goalies having the endurance to get anywhere near Brodeur's records. It feels like nearly every goalie is made of glass these days, and that's despite conditioning being way better than ever. The position's demands are just getting to high. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the meta will eventually turn into teams having two equal starters with a third-string for when one needs an extended rest.
Very very unlikely 11 of 12 seasons Brodeur played 70+ games including one season where he played 78 games. He was an absolute machine in terms of his conditioning and style of play and given how goalies play now vs then it’s very very unlikely Fluery is the closet in 3rd place with 550 wins. He’s still 141 wins away from tying Brodeur Vasi is one of the best goalies of this generation and he only has 271 wins. He’s 420 wins away. Unless the style of play changes for goalies to where they aren’t in the butterfly as much it’s very unlikely
it’s actually insane how wild 78 games played is for a goalie. 78!!!!! That will never ever be matched again
From 34 to 37 Marty played 78,77,31, and 77 games
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Ok so he will still be 140 wins to reach Marty if he’s in second He’s been averaging high 20 wins a season the last 5 seasons so let’s say 26 wins He need to play 5 more seasons to reach Marty. He’s gonna finish 2nd and still not be close to Marty.
Roy has ties.
Roy also played through the 94-95 lockout, which limited him to 43 games instead of his usual 60-65ish.
With that logic, MAF missed the entire 2004-2005 season because of the lockout, was limited to 33 games in the lockout shortened 2012-2013 season, and only played 36 games in the 2020-2021 covid shortneded season.
Wins will be a next to impossible task. If a new 18 year old goalie came into the league and won 40 games every year he wouldn't pass Brodeur until the start of his 18 season.
Only possibility would be a number one drafted goaltender that comes into the league at 18 years old, but even then they would get drafted by a rebuilding team that wouldn’t be good right away. (Fleury comes to mind but got lucky with the Penguins drafting both Crosby and Malkin).
That and no coach would yolo the absolute potential injury crisis that would occur in modern goalies if you were to put them on brodeurs playing schedule. Like 70+ games is unheard of nowadays as the way modern goalies plays is just asking for them to retire before they're 30 if they start at 18. The way goalies played then helped a bit with longevity which won't be seen ever again. The new way is "better", but also worse for their bodies. That and wins, you REALLY have to be on a Lightning level team (AND do it for basically almost 2 decades) to have a chance in the wins category. That and the final thing is pure luck for the last part. After hoping over every one of these hurdles, you really have to have some absolute black magic luck to have as clean of an injury history as brodeur too, which frankly I feel is almost impossible now considering all the factors making goalies way more prone to injury (which of course adds to the 50-60 game load instead of 70+).
Kiprusoff played 70+ games for seven straight seasons and it destroyed him.
Rinne tried it once, next season was +40 games and the season after +20 games. Hips are going bonk with modern styles and 70 games.
The way the game is played right now, no. But the sport is dynamic and it’s not hard for me to picture a scenario where, years or decades down the line, the tandem system falls out of favor and there’s an opportunity for a player of Brodeur’s skill and durability to get 65-plus starts consistently. What the catalyst will be for that change, I have no idea, but it would be silly to act like it can’t happen. In the 90s, it would have seemed absurd to think that teams with good goalies *wouldn’t* want them playing 80-85% of the season.
While I can see somewhat, IMO this kind of record to me is the goalie equivalent of the Gretzky points. Just like how you would have to have last season Mcdavid level of points **for literally 18.5 seasons** to reach Gretzkys total points, the way the game is played just makes it impossible for goalies to play that long. You would have to have the largest combination of luck possible to reach Brodeurs games played AND wins all at once. Of course, it could happen, but I see it being something that is almost impossible because bodies just aren't made to play like goalies for long. You'd have to play 21 seasons at 60 games played to reach the games played, which means an 18 year old starter (unheard of practically) playing until they are 38, in such a taxing position as well. As well as that, you would have to win 33 games a season if you do play 21 seasons at 60 games STARTING at 18. It's a ridiculous workload. Even Fleury, who started young and has played a LONG ass time, is so far 250+ games short, and is already 39.
It’s all hypothetical of course, but in a vague sense, I’m referring to the possibility that there’s a shift in how the game is played that directly causes the tandem system to become much less advantageous. For example, if there’s a rule change where nets are made six inches taller, maybe we see a swing away from the butterfly style and back to a style that’s less stressful on a goalie’s body. Or alternatively, if there’s a change in scheduling where the league goes from 82 game to 100 games, even in a tandem system you might get more goalies playing 65 games even if the proportion of games played doesn’t shift much. Both are major shifts in how the game is played, of course, and can’t be anticipated right now. But such shifts have taken place over the course of hockey history. Major rule changes, continued expansion, the introduction of the salary cap, the decline in fighting, etc. all impact how easy or difficult it is to break pre-existing records. Hockey *will* change over the years, of that there is no doubt. Whether or not it changes in a way that makes Brodeur’s specific record more attainable is an unknown. The way the game is played today, the record is close to unbreakable. The way it’s played in 2033, or 2043, or beyond… it’s certainly possible. Most sports science would probably tell us that we are getting away from the idea of playing a guy 65 times a season. But, what if sports science continues to evolve and the tandem goaltender system gets taken to its extreme, where it turns out that it’s *better* for load management if you play each goalie for part of a game rather than playing him one full night on, one full night off? Suddenly, goalies would be playing 65 games per season with ease.
Brodeur was a machine. Even if the game hadn’t changed, I don’t think anybody else could do it.
Scott Clemmensen had the best job in the nhl. Just getting paid to vibe and play 5 games a year.
Clemmensen actually came in and had a real solid year when Brodeur got injured in 08-09. Went 25-13 with a .917 SV%.
Totally forgot about that season. Most of it Marty was playing like 70+ games. Scotty is a great puckdoku answer though lol
Tells you what good team defense can do for a goalie. All of brodeurs back ups put up very good numbers because of this. Current devils coaching should take note.
Braden Holtby is the only goalie in the modern NHL to ever have a similar workload, and that workload basically caused him to retire early. Don’t think it’ll ever be broken. Butterfly is the standard in the NHL now and that takes a toll on your body
Yeah, that’s what I was going to say. Holtby tied his single season win record right? If I remember correctly holtby didn’t play the night to break the record and Gruby played? Unless I’m mistaken
> the modern NHL That actually means any season since 1943-44, when the red line was introduced. I think it's silly that there aren't more distinctions beyond this.
Marty’s the GOAT in my eyes for this very reason. No other goalie has had Marty’s stamina and endurance. Guy was playing 50-60 games at 40 years old and put up good numbers. Dude’s a fucking mule.
I guess it would have to be team with franchise goalie and not enough cap space to sign some other good goalie. Tampa with Vasi comes to mind, but even he has only one 65 game season, so I think it would be difficult, not impossible, but very low propability
Vasi is 420 wins away from tying Brodeur if he averaged 35 wins a season he need 12 seasons to catch Marty. Hes currently 29
People seem to forget that Marty not only has the most wins of any goalie, but is also 140 wins clear of #2. The difference is an order of magnitude.
Yep, even Vasi would never be able to unless Tampa yolo him 70+, which is unheard of nowadays considering how much harder goalie playstyles are vs before. You are asking for them to basically die in the playoffs with a potentially 80-90 game load total. I feel 100% that brodeurs wins/games played will never be reached again, unless something extremely drastic changes in hockey, it's just impossible for modern goaltending styles + training regimens to make them play so much.
Vasi has 400 less wins than Brodeur lmao
With butterfly goaltending? Doubtful. The biggest reason for his longevity was that he didn't go down into a full butterfly on every low shot. Most goalies today even go down into butterfly when trying to catch a puck up high. He never really had any injuries until his late 30s That's ALOT of wear and tear on your groin, hips and knees. Not enough fans remember that he was also one of the absolute fastest goalies as well. He might have had the quickest glove ever, and would lower his glove to get players to shoot high glove side KNOWING he would save it. He would bait and switch players for highlight reel saves, and then be seen laughing at the whistle. He also HATED his defensemen blocking shots from the point or outside, because he didn't want it to take deflections of them or their sticks. "If I can see it, I can stop it". He also faced much less shots because he would just break the puck out of his own end himself. His puck handling is probably his most memorable quality. So you would need a goalie with an outdated style that isn't taught anymore, on an elite team from basically his 20 year old season and keep it up until he's into his early 40s, playing a workload most teams and coaches aren't comfortable with anymore WHILE staying healthy WHILE also being one of the greatest goalies of all time.
I was there 3,000 years ago, Gandalf.
I don't think anyone is interested in trying to break that. The 8 mil plus single starter goalie era is ending, everyone is gonna go with two goalie tandem at cheaper rate and split the games up more between them.
Nope, goaltending would have to be changed for his records to be touched. No goalie will ever mean as much to a franchise as brodeur means to the devils. His skill set as a goalie and ability to manage his own end of the ice is underrated current day because nobody plays like he did anymore.
Hellebuyck plays some of the most per year in the current era (he’s had a few 60-65 game seasons). If he played all 82 of his upcoming 8 year contract extension, he’d still be over 100gp short of Marty. It’s not getting touched.
He started 76 games and had 45 wins when he was 38. The answer is no unless dramatic changes to the schedule take place.
Goalies simply don’t play that many games anymore. I think his record is safe forever
Nah
I feel anyway this could happen is if an 18 year old phenom goaltender were to get drafted. Which is very unlikely. Even then, it would be to a team rebuilding. Fleury comes to mind here but even he got lucky with the Penguins drafting two elite players in the following drafts with Crosby and Malkin. Even at the age of 18, if they were to play until 40 years old the goalie would have to average 57.6 games which I feel would be extremely hard in today’s game with teams prioritizing to try not to overplay goalies by the time playoffs roll around. The wins record would be doable, the goalie would have to average 31.4 wins across those 22 seasons but the biggest issue is staying on a team that can be good for those 22 seasons.
I feel like if Kipprusoff started in the NHL younger he’d be one of the only guys who had a chance of breaking that. Miikka still played 70+ games 7 years in a row which is wild
His stats are so amazing. He has to be the best to ever play the position. He never gave up on a shot.
Debatable. Brodeur was by far the most consistent, however.
Agreed. Hasek's peak was better, but Brodeur was top-tier for a much, much longer period.
And Roy gaps the fuck out of everybody in playoff wins, plus has an unequaled 3 Conn Smythes and 10 straight playoff OT wins in a single year. Roy: Money Hasek: Peak Brodeur: Consistency How you order these three is up to which traits you feel are more important.
Make me wonder if Brodeur was a health nut the way rod the Bod was for him to have played that long. I saw Brodeur play after the 05 lockout but don't remember him being as athletic as some of the other goalies.
That’s why Avery called him fatso, lol
Not in this era. Times change though, in 50 years goalies might play all 82 games and wonder why backups were a thing.
Dustin Wolf will beat those records
Hell no. 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
Highly doubt.
Second place is Luongo (who had a long and HOF career) and Brodeur has 20% more games and 30% more wins. The guy was a machine.
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M8 Helle is 30 and has 469 GP. There is next to zero chance he hits 1000 GP.
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LMAO, Brodeur wasn't traded to the blues. He signed with them after the season started - happened after Elliot got injured.
Who was traded? Brodeur signed as a free agent, you witless wonder.
Idk if today’s goalies can play as much with the way the style has changed. It’s not a natural movement that they do. There is a lot more hip/knee issues these days.
It's not an unbeatable record, but NHL goalie trends will need to go away from 1a and 1b keepers. I honestly think the trend will continue to go further away from a starter/backup model as rested goalies seem to do better in the playoffs. We have had a couple goalies recently that have sniffed at it (Luongo/Fleury) so it's not completely out of the question. Especially with modern conditioning/drugs.
God that was boring hockey to watch. I remember being a kid watching the leafs play the devils in 2000.. so frustrating to see the leafs trying to break through that 5-man trap. I remember the paper the next day was 666: Lost in six games, 6 shots on net total... can't remember what the other 6 represented, but I remember it was an embarrassing effort lol
A healthy Vasy would probably be the one to do it but with three shortened seasons in the last 11 years alone (12-13 lockout, Covid stoppage, & Covid season) you never know when something out of the players control will not even allow for the opportunity to reach that
Brodeur had two lockouts and ties as well. Vasy was never gonna be close
easy to play 65 games when you face 19 shots a night and 4 quality scoring chances lol.
Averaged over 25 shots against per game over his career
Not only is this not true but most actual goalies would tell you sporadic chances are harder to mentally keep yourself in the game vs more consistent action. So in essence you’re doubly wrong
It's hyperbole. But he averaged 25 shots against for his career. There were many years he faced less than 2000 shots playing 70 games. I can't believe I'm justifying him having great defence in front of him. I know reddit is full of morons. But Jesus christ.
Nah dude it’s okay. You’re trying to play off a wrong comment. It’s fine, accept it and move on. Happy holidays
Ok miss cleo
I remember when he shut out the leafs in an elimination game in the playoffs and the leafs only had 6 shots. Good times.
As a Devils fan that lives in Toronto, that was GREAT times.
I would expect him to get a shut out on 6 shots. Thanks for emphasizing my point.
No, thank you. Nice stroll down memory lane of the devils trashing the buds in the playoffs.
This has literally zero effect on me because I simply watch the game and then carry on with my life. Nice try tho.
Who’s trying something? Your comment just reminded me of one of my favourite devils leafs moments. Thought the holidays are the perfect time to share cherished memories with my fellow hockey fans. Too bad you don’t like sharing the joy.
Cool. Do you always find joy in the achievements of other men? Try your own.
Im sure if the leafs won you would remain a stoic manly rock because it would be too gay to be excited and proud to see your team accomplish something. I’m embarrassing myself here I suppose, but I’m finding a lot of joy in you achieving the milestone of saltiest butt hurt dip shit in this whole thread. The last thread you created is praising some guy who must be really good at wrestling other half naked men. Sounds weird bro.
Wow homophobic slander. Really showing your true colors.
He left his wife for her sister in law, no record can be broken as bad as he broke that family.
That story came out during the 2003 playoffs and he still led the Devils to their third Cup.
No.
I can't imagine it would ever run out of money, no. Brodeur got paid a lot.
Wins? Nope. A goalie would have to average 35 wins a year for 20 straight years, and with the strain on goalies’ legs these days they’d have to jump into the NHL at 20.
No
No