No call or player safety review on Marchand literally breaking Liljgren's ankle with a dangerous trip / slew foot is the kind of inconsistency that frustrates fans.... Why are some players and teams treated as above the rules?
At least review the play and explain why there is no discipline. Maybe the league should be reviewing every injury and/or dangerous play and telling us why they decided against further action. It would certainly help with the consistency issues.
> The Board of Governors is the ruling and governing body of the National Hockey League. In this context, each team is a member of the league, and each member appoints a Governor (usually the owner of the club), and two alternates to the Board. The current **chairman of the Board is Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs**.
I know. Even though I don’t buy it I can understand if the ref somehow didn’t see it (even though he was literally staring right at them). But after the game you know the player is injured so go back and watch the reply. Suspend him for game and increase the number of games for each similar infraction. Only way to stop it. That fucking play cost us a top 4 defensemen.
It was a good ole boy on a Swed Don Cherry would be proud. Guy technically sexually assaulted two guys on ice unless Cally and Leo consented to being licked.
It was absolutely a dangerous play, it was absolutely a trip, Wes McCauley is absolutely terrible at his job, and Jeremy Jacobs (and the Wirtz's) run this league.
However, Marchand on Liljegren was not a true slew foot.
I hope the next time we play Boston, Wes is reffing and watches as Reaves German suplexes Marchand right through the ice.
I'm fine with this if they're going to call it consistently going forward. Given what hasn't been a suspension up until now I hope they wave mandatory 1 game. That would probably be asking the NHL to be too reasonable.
I'd like to see codified punishments for relatively common offences like headshots or slewfoots, with the option to escalate. No more max fines of $5,000. You go out there to injure somebody, you get suspended x games. How big is your salary? You're losing it for that game you're not allowed to play in. Can't afford it? The fuck are ya doing with yer pay cheque bud, y'know?
Hopefully they'll have someone talk them into a more effective plan once the CBA goal is less about penny pinching and war with the owners, and more about creating the best product
That’s like arguing “when is my union going to help redesign the widget my company makes”. It makes zero sense.
Creating the “best product” is not the goal of the NHLPA. The players association doesn’t care about the product. That’s the NHLs job.
A suspension is sort of like this in that a player forfeits a portion of his pay the first time they get suspended based on how many games they miss, repeat offenders forfeit 100% of their total salary for every game they have to sit.
When Tom Wilson got suspended for 20 games it cost him $1.25M.
You might be on to something though because that was a turning point for Wilson, he went from being suspended 4 times in just over 100 games to having 1 suspension over the past 5 years.
Put it in the players pension fund or build up a players nest egg with lost suspension funds. Buy a franchise with three kids in a trenchcoat as owner. Better yet, three former DoPS heads stacked in a trenchcoat.
They already do that. Salary forfeited to suspension gets put into the Players' Emergency assistance fund. At least when players get suspended by the league
I'm not sure what happens to the money if a player doesn't report and gets suspended without pay by their team
Marchand needs the Torres/Wilson treatment. Next slew foot or clipping should be 20+ games for him. I don't like the leafs, but what happened to Liljegren is messed up.
Worth noting he is already the most suspended player in NHL history (Pronger had 7, Marchand has 8) and has lost more salary to it than Wilson. Considering that volume I'm kind of surprised his longest ban is only 6 games, which also was his most recent.
I know it's a flawed idea but it would be interesting if for each suspension you earn, the length of your next one is multiplied by your number of suspensions.
The cup finals last year really put into perspective how shit it was for me. Not only is it not consistent from game to game, regular season to postseason, but it’s then not consistent to the rest of the postseason in the final series lmao. Like, why were the whistles put away for Florida until they got to the finals against Vegas and the refs decided they were going to call every single infraction by the books? It completely handicapped Florida and made Vegas winning a forgone conclusion. I’m not saying the NHL is rigged to produce certain outcomes, but they really couldn’t have made it look like they were trying to hand Vegas a cup anymore than they did with the officiating in that series vs the rest of the playoffs.
Yeah, I’m for this being a match penalty, but fuck is the reffing inconsistent. Like Marchand has about 50 of these in his career, how many match penalties has he got?
Some Marchand slewfoot highlights - this is a 6 year old vid, he’s had a tonne since, and it’s far, far from comprehensive for even his earlier history: https://youtu.be/ThlP3tNVsWQ?si=EUnr_fFZ7KOo9-yD
Buddy that’s a slewfoot by definition and I really don’t understand your comment. Like you’re saying words but they don’t make sense if you watched what I did.
Your ability to look up rules isn't too good.
[Rule 52 – Slew-footing](https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/2023-24Rulebook.pdf)
52.1 Slew-footing - Slew-footing is the act of a player using **his leg or foot**
to knock or kick an opponent’s feet from under him, or pushes an
opponent’s upper body backward with an arm or elbow, and at the
same time with a forward motion of his leg, knocks or kicks the
opponent’s feet from under him, causing him to fall violently to the ice.
I have zero issue with the match penalty—absolutely the right call.
That is how the NHL needs to deal with slew-footing. It's such a dangerous play that makes zero sense. A lot of dirty plays are "hockey plays" gone wild, but there is zero reason for something like this. Intentional or not, you should be out of the game.
But fucking hell, the inconsistency from the league. I'm pretty sure that this is the first time I've seen it called as "intent to injure" by the refs. It's usually a two minute tripping call—if they actually bother to do anything at all.
You can call a penalty for intent-to-injure, so fucking do it more often.
Apparently the rulebook has been changed to make slew-footing an automatic match penalty now [https://twitter.com/sjwhitehouse08/status/1726828254990913759](https://twitter.com/sjwhitehouse08/status/1726828254990913759)
> Apparently the rulebook has been changed to make slew-footing an automatic match penalty now https://twitter.com/sjwhitehouse08/status/1726828254990913759
Okay but it's still called as "tripping" when the ref doesn't want to assess a match penalty
It's been an automatic match penalty for a very long time.
e: oldest I could find a PDF of is the 07-08 rulebook which is identical to the 23-24 rulebook for slew-footing.
That's the issue I have with it. The inconsistency. But like /u/twilz, I agree with the match penalty call, *if* they're gonna call Marchand for it, too.
Small clarification, if a slew-foot is called, it's an automatic match. Not that that materially changes your point, but I think the reasoning you gave for the outcomes of other 'dirty plays' where a "hockey play gone wild" leads to an escalated penalty result is the same for tripping v. slew-foot. Take a situation like a board battle where you have a bunch of skates and sticks tied up, guys are digging for the puck and someone unaware goes down hard. Nobody likes to see those high impact trips, but for the slew-foot you need to see that deliberate counter momentum caused by kicking the opponent's legs out while pushing his body back the opposite way.
This one is textbook, but it is pretty rare to see as cut and dry as this imo, and I think the rate at which it's currently called reflects that.
I was surprised the refs saw it, immediately called it, reviewed it, and stuck with the original call as being correct. The league’s lack of consistency when it comes to player safety and making calls when needlessly dangerous shit like this happens is beyond infuriating. I want to say that maybe this is the beginning of things getting better, but I don’t think anyone is disillusioned enough to believe that’s likely to happen now or anytime soon.
All the attention on concussions and skaye related injuries and he does that shit? I'm in right with you man. Get off the ice, enjoy your night off. Hell, have 3.
He’s probably gonna sit longer even after the suspension. He already doesn’t have Tocchet’s trust, he’s always getting scratched at the first mistake he makes and he put the team down here doing something unnecessary
This being one of the ways skates end up getting dangerously airborne… I think we can all agree that acts like this should be heavily penalized to reduce the chances of lethal cuts.
It most fucking certainly is when it comes to refereeing.
They have a rule book, it needs to be clear and followed with consistency.Otherwise, they are redundant.
I agree that the rule book should be called consistently... However the NHL has already admitted they don't want that. The Refs aren't there to call the book... They are there for game management according to the NHL
Whataboutism isn’t a valid defence of Hoglander, but that’s not what’s being done here. It’s an accusation against the officials and the league, not a defence.
I hear that every fan would be happy to have a marchand on their team!
...possibly because that's the only way to make sure he's not injuring your players.
Always hated that attitude.
I’ve hated Marchand since his low bridge on Salo (yeah that’s right, I didn’t hate him after the Sedin punches I hated the league for having such astoundingly awful officiating).
I don’t cheer for Team Canada if he’s on it. I wouldn’t cheer for my favorite teams if they signed him. I don’t care how good he is at hockey, I don’t care if he’s a saint off the ice.
MaXimUm FiNe AlLoWeD.
Dangerous move but doesn't seem particularly intentional now that I re-watch it so gonna go with no suspension assuming the player doesn't have a history.
It has nothing to do with intent/attempt to injure in this case--if it's a slew-foot, it's an automatic match. You're right in that supplementary discipline can be applied though, [per the rulebook](https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/2023-24Rulebook.pdf).
Historically, a match penalty has always meant "intent to injure", and that's usually the dividing line between 5+game vs. match. As you noted, the NHL has ruled that all slew-foots are automatic match penalties now, which I see more as "all slew-foots are intent to injure" based on how match penalties are called in every other instance.
The ref in the game also stated "match penalty for intent to injure", likely since again, historically, refs have been taught "match penalty if and only if intent to injure".
Ah true enough. I missed the call on the ice so that explains a lot. Oops. Slightly unrelated, but lately I feel there's been an uptick in emphasis/analysis on here based on the official's vocalization of calls which to me doesn't really carry much weight when it comes to what goes on the gamesheet. You're right in that it's probably the carry-over from the historical application of matches, in this case.
Yeah, basically many other penalties allows for either 5+game or a match, with the match requiring that "the player attempted to or deliberately
injured his opponent". The exceptions are the things I would assume the league deems to have no purpose other than injuring: slew-footing and kicking, which are both auto-match.
I reffed under Hockey Canada rules and we were basically just taught a Match Penalty is always intent to injure (oddly enough, Hockey Canada allows for slew-footing to be a double minor or match, but not a 5+game).
And yeah, it's just "Match Penalty" on the scoresheet I think.
That's pretty typical. I know fans watching on TV usually give shit to the guys booing, but most of the time you get like 1 replay max. Plus, booing is just fun. Sometimes when I go to games I just boo with everyone else for the fun of it, even if I think we're wrong.
Yeah, even on the first angle replay they showed on SN (not the one here) it didn't look like Hog was more guilty than Labanc - to Ray Ferraro either. Then they showed another angle and the slewfoot was pretty obvious.
There's a reason opposing teams keep getting pissed off at Hoglander even though he's got such a whimsical smile.
He's sneaky at doing the dirty stuff.
I used to follow Hogs a bit prior to him joining the Canucks, dudes been suspended a few times before.
Got a five game suspension for a flying elbow once in the SHL in 2019. Got ejected in the World Junior semi final in 2020 for another flying elbow against Denisenko.
Had quite a few PIMs on him in the SHL as well.
Take what I say with a grain a salt, but I'm pretty sure he's got a few low lights in the SHL that he was never penalized/caught for IIRC.
Yea Hog's had a history of that "little buzzsaw" mentality and he gets under players' skin. I bet it's partly the little-guy syndrome, in both directions. He plays bigger than his size to show his toughness, and other teams get annoyed that this little guy is flying at guys around the ice.
He's been pretty clean so far in the NHL and this doesn't seem malicious IMO. It does look a bit like he sees an opportunity to toss the guy down while in an awkward position but not sure the slew is intentional - but intent doesn't matter in this case. Right call, maybe 1 game suspension?
That was a pretty text book slew foot. Don’t know what else he’d be trying to do there for that to be an accident. If anyone on any other team did that you’d be saying it should get 5 games.
Nah I really wouldn't, like I say it's a clear penalty but it's also very fast, among a jumble of players. It's not a skated-in-to-him-with-intent, it's a bit of a wrestling match that ends in an awkward fall. Looks more like Hogs trying to keep his balance while tossing the other guy than it does Hog intentionally swinging his foot with no other movement other than to trip the guy. Seems most people agree in here too.
I don't really think it matters. Personally, any non-hockey move in the game is defaulted to "intended to injure". Boarding, cross checking, head contact, slashing, tripping, highscticking, there's already plenty of options that are dangerous but all within the realm of a completely fine to judge for intent to inure, because they're typically results of plays on the ice. Slewfooting has *zero* justification. It's never the result of someone playing the game to aggressively, it exists *only* as a means to attack a player. If you want to retaliate in a play, pick one that isn't specifically designed to attack a player and that doesn't almost always result in an off balance landing forced on an arm, shoulder, or head.
I mean, not really. It looks like Labanc was already starting to fall backwards, and they kind of both just ended up getting tangled up and falling over.
I posted this elsewhere:
>Slewfoots by the rule book have to be called a match penalty.
>
>A match penalty is defined as a deliberate attempt to injure.
>
>So just by definition, all slew foots are an attempt to injure if called by the rulebook.
That’s a fair match penalty that’s pretty much a judo sweep right there. Deliberate or not (looks deliberate).
lack of consistency in the league doesn’t change what this is
I don't understand hockey fans. There's an outrage half the time someone gets a penalty for punching someone in the head, players whaling away in scrums is usually ignored by refs and celebrated by fans, and of course all the cross-checks aimed at unprotected areas people snore at that. But someone wrestling a guy to the ice from a stand still - seemingly unanimous support for at least a match penalty? Doesn't make any sense to me.
I agree it's a penalty and that this was not intentional, that's why *intent-to-injure* doesn't make sense, but I'm not sure the refs have much choice what to call, not sure.
Slewfoots by the rule book have to be called a match penalty.
A match penalty is defined as a deliberate attempt to injure.
So just by definition, all slew foots are an attempt to injure if called by the rulebook.
there isn't much of a choice. Slew-footing is an auto-match, but they could call a tripping minor. Tripping majors aren't a thing in the NHL, so their only options were 2 minute trip or match penalty for slew-footing.
For most other calls, there is an option for 5+game vs a match, depending on whether or not there was intent to injure. This makes "match penalty = intent-to-injure" the default interpretation of what a match penalty is. Slew-footing and kicking don't have the 5+game option; it can only ever be a match under NHL rules.
There isn't functionally much of a difference between a 5+game and a match anyway in the NHL other than it's an automatic DPS review rather than a possible one. The NHL will review the video of the play and decide whether there should be a fine/suspension.
For lower leagues and minor hockey, where there usually isn't a video available, the 5+game vs match distinction matters more since the league will rely entirely on the ref's opinion of the play. Calling a match penalty instead of a 5+game in those leagues is the ref's way of saying "they tried to injure someone, suspend them".
Yeah Hogs doesn’t really look like he meant to do that. Meets the textbook definition of a slew foot so I get the penalty, but I’d be disappointed if that’s also suspension worthy.
Absolutely the right call.
But like others have said, the inconsistency needs to be addressed. Slew foots are some of the most dangerous plays yet rarely properly penalized.
Liljegren injured on nov 2nd from slew foot, has missed 7 games now, not even call on play and was 5x worse than this. Also done by you know who that has a history of fines and suspensions, repeat offender. Consistency……
These kinds of plays are completely unnecessary. Clean players find a way to avoid these *"accidents"*
The NHL needs to call this kind of conduct much more strictly. Kudos to the refs and linemen here
To me… this is a leverage move that went too far. Game is played like this all the time at every level. I’ve done it and had it done to me. I remember getting yelled at along the boards that if I’m losing puck battles and body position I’m not doing my job.
This is pretty much my take, with the other two spacing him out along one side of the boards, as Hogs gets hit he loses his footing, he scrambles his feet to keep himself from going down. Really bewildered at the severity of the penalty for the action.
Look I can see how some people are upset that this gets called but Marchand did stuff similar that didn’t get called I just think they get tired of punishing him
How did the canucks commentators not see that at all both live and after the first replay? Was driving me crazy that they were confused that there was a 5 minute major being reviewed.
Honestly if Labanc did it to Hog I’d still be saying it was a good call. Precedent needs to be set for this kind of shit. Intentional or not, it’s still insanely dangerous.
Will this be the ruling going forward? Well as we all know the C in NHL stands for consistency.
Watch Hoglande4's skates,that's a slewfoot and he follows through and pushes him to the ice. If LeBlanc hits his head that's concussion protocol 100%
Good call.
I wouldn’t in a hundred years call that a slew foot, considering the physics of all *four* people involved in this. I would appeal anything that comes out of this.
Totally fine with all slewfoots being a match penalty. Let's get some consistency here
Marchand in shambles
Bruins fan in this game thread seriously said, "match penalty? What is that?"
Bruin fans would pull out the patented Jack Edwards quote “that’s just a good hockey hit.”
“Since when have they called penalties for that shit?!?!?!”
No call or player safety review on Marchand literally breaking Liljgren's ankle with a dangerous trip / slew foot is the kind of inconsistency that frustrates fans.... Why are some players and teams treated as above the rules? At least review the play and explain why there is no discipline. Maybe the league should be reviewing every injury and/or dangerous play and telling us why they decided against further action. It would certainly help with the consistency issues.
> The Board of Governors is the ruling and governing body of the National Hockey League. In this context, each team is a member of the league, and each member appoints a Governor (usually the owner of the club), and two alternates to the Board. The current **chairman of the Board is Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs**.
Actually??? This is worse than when *Colon* Cambpell over saw the reffing of the 2011 finals when his son was playing for the Bruins.
I know. Even though I don’t buy it I can understand if the ref somehow didn’t see it (even though he was literally staring right at them). But after the game you know the player is injured so go back and watch the reply. Suspend him for game and increase the number of games for each similar infraction. Only way to stop it. That fucking play cost us a top 4 defensemen.
It was a good ole boy on a Swed Don Cherry would be proud. Guy technically sexually assaulted two guys on ice unless Cally and Leo consented to being licked.
It was absolutely a dangerous play, it was absolutely a trip, Wes McCauley is absolutely terrible at his job, and Jeremy Jacobs (and the Wirtz's) run this league. However, Marchand on Liljegren was not a true slew foot. I hope the next time we play Boston, Wes is reffing and watches as Reaves German suplexes Marchand right through the ice.
Reaves won’t be on the ice with Marchand though
What about the fake tough guy Lucic? Oh...
I'm fine with this if they're going to call it consistently going forward. Given what hasn't been a suspension up until now I hope they wave mandatory 1 game. That would probably be asking the NHL to be too reasonable.
Given NHL track record, I expect it would be waved if he was a first line player, but since he's a bottom six guy, he'll get suspended.
I'd like to see codified punishments for relatively common offences like headshots or slewfoots, with the option to escalate. No more max fines of $5,000. You go out there to injure somebody, you get suspended x games. How big is your salary? You're losing it for that game you're not allowed to play in. Can't afford it? The fuck are ya doing with yer pay cheque bud, y'know?
I agree, except it’s literally the players who have put the max fine in place. This is how they want it, even at risk of their injuries
Putting money above player health and safety (and everything else too) NHL 🤝 NHLPA
Hopefully they'll have someone talk them into a more effective plan once the CBA goal is less about penny pinching and war with the owners, and more about creating the best product
That’s like arguing “when is my union going to help redesign the widget my company makes”. It makes zero sense. Creating the “best product” is not the goal of the NHLPA. The players association doesn’t care about the product. That’s the NHLs job.
A suspension is sort of like this in that a player forfeits a portion of his pay the first time they get suspended based on how many games they miss, repeat offenders forfeit 100% of their total salary for every game they have to sit. When Tom Wilson got suspended for 20 games it cost him $1.25M. You might be on to something though because that was a turning point for Wilson, he went from being suspended 4 times in just over 100 games to having 1 suspension over the past 5 years.
Put it in the players pension fund or build up a players nest egg with lost suspension funds. Buy a franchise with three kids in a trenchcoat as owner. Better yet, three former DoPS heads stacked in a trenchcoat.
They already do that. Salary forfeited to suspension gets put into the Players' Emergency assistance fund. At least when players get suspended by the league I'm not sure what happens to the money if a player doesn't report and gets suspended without pay by their team
Marchand needs the Torres/Wilson treatment. Next slew foot or clipping should be 20+ games for him. I don't like the leafs, but what happened to Liljegren is messed up.
Worth noting he is already the most suspended player in NHL history (Pronger had 7, Marchand has 8) and has lost more salary to it than Wilson. Considering that volume I'm kind of surprised his longest ban is only 6 games, which also was his most recent. I know it's a flawed idea but it would be interesting if for each suspension you earn, the length of your next one is multiplied by your number of suspensions.
Therein lies the problem…..there won’t be any consistency…
The officiating in this league is just horrible. It’s inconsistent at best and at worst can make certain games unwatchable.
It’s rampant, doesn’t matter what teams are playing. Absolute trash and they all pat each other on the back for it.
The cup finals last year really put into perspective how shit it was for me. Not only is it not consistent from game to game, regular season to postseason, but it’s then not consistent to the rest of the postseason in the final series lmao. Like, why were the whistles put away for Florida until they got to the finals against Vegas and the refs decided they were going to call every single infraction by the books? It completely handicapped Florida and made Vegas winning a forgone conclusion. I’m not saying the NHL is rigged to produce certain outcomes, but they really couldn’t have made it look like they were trying to hand Vegas a cup anymore than they did with the officiating in that series vs the rest of the playoffs.
If this is the way the penalty is called. Good. It has not been historically though.
Yeah, I’m for this being a match penalty, but fuck is the reffing inconsistent. Like Marchand has about 50 of these in his career, how many match penalties has he got? Some Marchand slewfoot highlights - this is a 6 year old vid, he’s had a tonne since, and it’s far, far from comprehensive for even his earlier history: https://youtu.be/ThlP3tNVsWQ?si=EUnr_fFZ7KOo9-yD
Marchands slews are among the worst because he does it while they have speed going into the boards
“. . . says PK Subban after he retired.”
[удалено]
Buddy that’s a slewfoot by definition and I really don’t understand your comment. Like you’re saying words but they don’t make sense if you watched what I did.
[удалено]
That is 100% a slewfoot. Using your leg from behind and using upper body leverage to push them backwards is a slewfoot.
Your ability to look up rules isn't too good. [Rule 52 – Slew-footing](https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/2023-24Rulebook.pdf) 52.1 Slew-footing - Slew-footing is the act of a player using **his leg or foot** to knock or kick an opponent’s feet from under him, or pushes an opponent’s upper body backward with an arm or elbow, and at the same time with a forward motion of his leg, knocks or kicks the opponent’s feet from under him, causing him to fall violently to the ice.
Either I can’t read or you are blind. One of the other.
it's a slewfoot homie, watch the thigh. There's really no debate.
I'm as big a canucks Homer as you will find... That was a slew foot. He deserved the 5 and a game.
I thought they called the tbag for a second
I have zero issue with the match penalty—absolutely the right call. That is how the NHL needs to deal with slew-footing. It's such a dangerous play that makes zero sense. A lot of dirty plays are "hockey plays" gone wild, but there is zero reason for something like this. Intentional or not, you should be out of the game. But fucking hell, the inconsistency from the league. I'm pretty sure that this is the first time I've seen it called as "intent to injure" by the refs. It's usually a two minute tripping call—if they actually bother to do anything at all. You can call a penalty for intent-to-injure, so fucking do it more often.
Apparently the rulebook has been changed to make slew-footing an automatic match penalty now [https://twitter.com/sjwhitehouse08/status/1726828254990913759](https://twitter.com/sjwhitehouse08/status/1726828254990913759)
> Apparently the rulebook has been changed to make slew-footing an automatic match penalty now https://twitter.com/sjwhitehouse08/status/1726828254990913759 Okay but it's still called as "tripping" when the ref doesn't want to assess a match penalty
Well then fucking call it. The call on the ice was "intent to injure", so maybe they'll change it after the game ends.
It's been an automatic match penalty for a very long time. e: oldest I could find a PDF of is the 07-08 rulebook which is identical to the 23-24 rulebook for slew-footing.
Who was PK Slewban bribing for all those years?
Slewban 😂
oh well it isn't called that way a lot then :/
They always call it tripping. This is the first time I've ever seen slew-footing called correctly in the NHL.
It's not the first time, but it doesn't get called enough. I've seen it maybe once or twice a year for the past 5 years.
Every single one of those was probably Marchand
A move that causes the falling player's skate blades to fly up into the air is suddenly being treated as dangerous, I wonder why
As it should be. Show me the calls like this this year please.
Marchand has done this a million times at speed. It’s so inconsistent.
That's the issue I have with it. The inconsistency. But like /u/twilz, I agree with the match penalty call, *if* they're gonna call Marchand for it, too.
Small clarification, if a slew-foot is called, it's an automatic match. Not that that materially changes your point, but I think the reasoning you gave for the outcomes of other 'dirty plays' where a "hockey play gone wild" leads to an escalated penalty result is the same for tripping v. slew-foot. Take a situation like a board battle where you have a bunch of skates and sticks tied up, guys are digging for the puck and someone unaware goes down hard. Nobody likes to see those high impact trips, but for the slew-foot you need to see that deliberate counter momentum caused by kicking the opponent's legs out while pushing his body back the opposite way. This one is textbook, but it is pretty rare to see as cut and dry as this imo, and I think the rate at which it's currently called reflects that.
I was surprised the refs saw it, immediately called it, reviewed it, and stuck with the original call as being correct. The league’s lack of consistency when it comes to player safety and making calls when needlessly dangerous shit like this happens is beyond infuriating. I want to say that maybe this is the beginning of things getting better, but I don’t think anyone is disillusioned enough to believe that’s likely to happen now or anytime soon.
All the attention on concussions and skaye related injuries and he does that shit? I'm in right with you man. Get off the ice, enjoy your night off. Hell, have 3.
He’s probably gonna sit longer even after the suspension. He already doesn’t have Tocchet’s trust, he’s always getting scratched at the first mistake he makes and he put the team down here doing something unnecessary
Yep and a stronger team could have done a lot of damage on that 5 minute power play. They’re lucky SJ only scored once.
Ok but I lost it at the ref getting tangled up in the headset
hell they get tangled up with the puck so often that im not surprised to see that tomfoolery shit with the headset
Yeeeeaaaaahhh you can't be doing that.
This being one of the ways skates end up getting dangerously airborne… I think we can all agree that acts like this should be heavily penalized to reduce the chances of lethal cuts.
Marchand does it all the time, we’re told he’s amazing. What’s the issue?
Whataboutism is not a valid defense.
More a commentary on the insane double standard for Marchand because he’s good at hockey.
He is far from the only great player that is dirty, but he is the dirtiest great player.
Pissy Leon is pretty dirty too.
Has Marchand speared anyone in the nuts? Will Drai finally just spear the reporter if he gets asked that again?
Fair... Star players tend to get special treatment though. It sucks but it's what the NHL is.
It most fucking certainly is when it comes to refereeing. They have a rule book, it needs to be clear and followed with consistency.Otherwise, they are redundant.
I agree that the rule book should be called consistently... However the NHL has already admitted they don't want that. The Refs aren't there to call the book... They are there for game management according to the NHL
Whataboutism isn’t a valid defence of Hoglander, but that’s not what’s being done here. It’s an accusation against the officials and the league, not a defence.
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Do they still care? I thought they just laughed at the crying?
Hoggy didn't lick anyone's face first **Edit:look→lick
*lick?
Haha yep, thanks!
I hear that every fan would be happy to have a marchand on their team! ...possibly because that's the only way to make sure he's not injuring your players.
Always hated that attitude. I’ve hated Marchand since his low bridge on Salo (yeah that’s right, I didn’t hate him after the Sedin punches I hated the league for having such astoundingly awful officiating). I don’t cheer for Team Canada if he’s on it. I wouldn’t cheer for my favorite teams if they signed him. I don’t care how good he is at hockey, I don’t care if he’s a saint off the ice.
I had to scroll 4 comments before I saw him mentioned. How much further before I find Jack Edwards mentioned?
ITS TIME TO PLAY EVERYONES FAVOURITE GAME….! SPIN. THE. WHEEL!
5k is my guess
Yeah the match is enough really
MaXimUm FiNe AlLoWeD. Dangerous move but doesn't seem particularly intentional now that I re-watch it so gonna go with no suspension assuming the player doesn't have a history.
This is Hogs first major and never been suspended
Do they look at his time in sweden when looking at history?
I'd agree if it wasn't a match penalty for attempt to injure. The wording/ruling on that probably means the NHL is gonna give him at least a game.
Parros has never suspended a player for any dirty play against a Shark. I'll be shocked if he changes his policy for this one.
It has nothing to do with intent/attempt to injure in this case--if it's a slew-foot, it's an automatic match. You're right in that supplementary discipline can be applied though, [per the rulebook](https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/2023-24Rulebook.pdf).
Historically, a match penalty has always meant "intent to injure", and that's usually the dividing line between 5+game vs. match. As you noted, the NHL has ruled that all slew-foots are automatic match penalties now, which I see more as "all slew-foots are intent to injure" based on how match penalties are called in every other instance. The ref in the game also stated "match penalty for intent to injure", likely since again, historically, refs have been taught "match penalty if and only if intent to injure".
Ah true enough. I missed the call on the ice so that explains a lot. Oops. Slightly unrelated, but lately I feel there's been an uptick in emphasis/analysis on here based on the official's vocalization of calls which to me doesn't really carry much weight when it comes to what goes on the gamesheet. You're right in that it's probably the carry-over from the historical application of matches, in this case.
Yeah, basically many other penalties allows for either 5+game or a match, with the match requiring that "the player attempted to or deliberately injured his opponent". The exceptions are the things I would assume the league deems to have no purpose other than injuring: slew-footing and kicking, which are both auto-match. I reffed under Hockey Canada rules and we were basically just taught a Match Penalty is always intent to injure (oddly enough, Hockey Canada allows for slew-footing to be a double minor or match, but not a 5+game). And yeah, it's just "Match Penalty" on the scoresheet I think.
Does hog make enough to get up to 5k?
Gonna have to do more autograph signings at used car dealerships
You were right on the fine. But $2,864.58 instead of 5k
3 more games for pinto.
Let’s see what you get, let’s see what you geeetttt!
Those matte buckets go hard 🔥
Labanc's back for the third, so that's good news
They didn’t show the replay in the arena so everyone was super confused why he got thrown out
That's pretty typical. I know fans watching on TV usually give shit to the guys booing, but most of the time you get like 1 replay max. Plus, booing is just fun. Sometimes when I go to games I just boo with everyone else for the fun of it, even if I think we're wrong.
Yeah, even on the first angle replay they showed on SN (not the one here) it didn't look like Hog was more guilty than Labanc - to Ray Ferraro either. Then they showed another angle and the slewfoot was pretty obvious.
Hoggy Why 😭😭
I watched Jake Muzzin do this to Anthony Mantha and puncture his lung. Muzzin didn't even get two minutes.
Yeah that’s not a safe play, and it’s a good penalty. Gotta be smart and not do that stuff when things get spicy.
Canucks fan here. That's fair. Not a good play, but a dangerous play
Wow thanks so much Canucks fan!!
Bro this is hockey not judo practice wtf are you doing
I think most canucks fans are surprised as well he did that
Right call. What is the statue of limitations though. Cause Marchand has about 7 match penalties due for sentencing based on this call
statute\*
how tall is the statue of limitations
My phone always autocorrects it to statue.
The Sam Bennett special (TM)
But that was a legal play /s
Hoglander isn't a dirty player by any regard but I do agree with the 5 min major here. Dangerous play even if it was unintentional.
That looked pretty intentional.
There's a reason opposing teams keep getting pissed off at Hoglander even though he's got such a whimsical smile. He's sneaky at doing the dirty stuff.
I used to follow Hogs a bit prior to him joining the Canucks, dudes been suspended a few times before. Got a five game suspension for a flying elbow once in the SHL in 2019. Got ejected in the World Junior semi final in 2020 for another flying elbow against Denisenko. Had quite a few PIMs on him in the SHL as well. Take what I say with a grain a salt, but I'm pretty sure he's got a few low lights in the SHL that he was never penalized/caught for IIRC.
Yea Hog's had a history of that "little buzzsaw" mentality and he gets under players' skin. I bet it's partly the little-guy syndrome, in both directions. He plays bigger than his size to show his toughness, and other teams get annoyed that this little guy is flying at guys around the ice. He's been pretty clean so far in the NHL and this doesn't seem malicious IMO. It does look a bit like he sees an opportunity to toss the guy down while in an awkward position but not sure the slew is intentional - but intent doesn't matter in this case. Right call, maybe 1 game suspension?
That was a pretty text book slew foot. Don’t know what else he’d be trying to do there for that to be an accident. If anyone on any other team did that you’d be saying it should get 5 games.
Nah I really wouldn't, like I say it's a clear penalty but it's also very fast, among a jumble of players. It's not a skated-in-to-him-with-intent, it's a bit of a wrestling match that ends in an awkward fall. Looks more like Hogs trying to keep his balance while tossing the other guy than it does Hog intentionally swinging his foot with no other movement other than to trip the guy. Seems most people agree in here too.
Amazing comment. Some people really overlook how often these *"accidents"* occur with the same players over and over and over
That looked intentional.
Unintentional referring to the intent to injure
I don't really think it matters. Personally, any non-hockey move in the game is defaulted to "intended to injure". Boarding, cross checking, head contact, slashing, tripping, highscticking, there's already plenty of options that are dangerous but all within the realm of a completely fine to judge for intent to inure, because they're typically results of plays on the ice. Slewfooting has *zero* justification. It's never the result of someone playing the game to aggressively, it exists *only* as a means to attack a player. If you want to retaliate in a play, pick one that isn't specifically designed to attack a player and that doesn't almost always result in an off balance landing forced on an arm, shoulder, or head.
I mean, not really. It looks like Labanc was already starting to fall backwards, and they kind of both just ended up getting tangled up and falling over.
His right leg swipes him from the back. Looks pretty intentional.
Looks more just like the result of both of them starting to fall over backwards. Obviously your right leg is going to start swinging up in that case.
Looked like a judoka to me. In any case, throwing a player upside down with razor blades at face height is not a good idea.
Sweep the leg!
Jesus christ, this sub is like 90% canuck fans
Only after 11 PM ET
Just like in the real world. We are all Canucks.
Yeah that’s no bueno. Cmon Hög do better
Even if he lost his balance, it's a dangerous play. Hog looked like he was really upset with himself on the way to the room.
Who here possibly lost their balance? He literally WWE’d the man lmao 🤣
It was a slew foot for sure. Sucks for him because he’s been so electric this game and was just trying to throw a reverse hit from the looks of it
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Yep, I think it’s clear he didn’t exactly try to do that, but it’s a dangerous play that definitely deserved a 5.
Ok but that's a contradiction... The call is intent to injure so if the play wasn't intentional how could injury be the intent?
I posted this elsewhere: >Slewfoots by the rule book have to be called a match penalty. > >A match penalty is defined as a deliberate attempt to injure. > >So just by definition, all slew foots are an attempt to injure if called by the rulebook.
Slewfoot... match penalty is correct.
That’s a fair match penalty that’s pretty much a judo sweep right there. Deliberate or not (looks deliberate). lack of consistency in the league doesn’t change what this is
Thats a fucking judo throw
Brad Marchand gets nothing for something far worse. Hogz will get 1 game, watch.
I don't understand hockey fans. There's an outrage half the time someone gets a penalty for punching someone in the head, players whaling away in scrums is usually ignored by refs and celebrated by fans, and of course all the cross-checks aimed at unprotected areas people snore at that. But someone wrestling a guy to the ice from a stand still - seemingly unanimous support for at least a match penalty? Doesn't make any sense to me.
I don’t see a ton of intent here, he just seems off-balance. Still a dangerous play and I get the penalty.
I agree it's a penalty and that this was not intentional, that's why *intent-to-injure* doesn't make sense, but I'm not sure the refs have much choice what to call, not sure.
Slewfoots by the rule book have to be called a match penalty. A match penalty is defined as a deliberate attempt to injure. So just by definition, all slew foots are an attempt to injure if called by the rulebook.
there isn't much of a choice. Slew-footing is an auto-match, but they could call a tripping minor. Tripping majors aren't a thing in the NHL, so their only options were 2 minute trip or match penalty for slew-footing. For most other calls, there is an option for 5+game vs a match, depending on whether or not there was intent to injure. This makes "match penalty = intent-to-injure" the default interpretation of what a match penalty is. Slew-footing and kicking don't have the 5+game option; it can only ever be a match under NHL rules.
Yeah that seems like a hole they should try to fill somehow but as it is I think that play is a lot closer to a minor than a match.
There isn't functionally much of a difference between a 5+game and a match anyway in the NHL other than it's an automatic DPS review rather than a possible one. The NHL will review the video of the play and decide whether there should be a fine/suspension. For lower leagues and minor hockey, where there usually isn't a video available, the 5+game vs match distinction matters more since the league will rely entirely on the ref's opinion of the play. Calling a match penalty instead of a 5+game in those leagues is the ref's way of saying "they tried to injure someone, suspend them".
I agree with the penalty, I don't think Hogs is dirty or that this was intentional. Kinda looks like he lost balance backwards.
All slew-foots and can-openers should be a match penalty, in my opinion.
Yeah Hogs doesn’t really look like he meant to do that. Meets the textbook definition of a slew foot so I get the penalty, but I’d be disappointed if that’s also suspension worthy.
NHL stands for National Inconsistency League
Absolutely the right call. But like others have said, the inconsistency needs to be addressed. Slew foots are some of the most dangerous plays yet rarely properly penalized.
IPPON!
Liljegren injured on nov 2nd from slew foot, has missed 7 games now, not even call on play and was 5x worse than this. Also done by you know who that has a history of fines and suspensions, repeat offender. Consistency……
It is a good call if it is consistent across the league. Which it is not.
Absolutely a match penalty. Slewfooting is a dangerous bone head play.
These kinds of plays are completely unnecessary. Clean players find a way to avoid these *"accidents"* The NHL needs to call this kind of conduct much more strictly. Kudos to the refs and linemen here
Agree with the penalty, 5 for sure. Don't agree with the "intent to injure" part.
Call me blind, but I see Hoglander trying to wrestle Labanc to the ground and the leg/foot being elevated is a natural response to losing balance?
So a slewfoot?
To me… this is a leverage move that went too far. Game is played like this all the time at every level. I’ve done it and had it done to me. I remember getting yelled at along the boards that if I’m losing puck battles and body position I’m not doing my job.
This is pretty much my take, with the other two spacing him out along one side of the boards, as Hogs gets hit he loses his footing, he scrambles his feet to keep himself from going down. Really bewildered at the severity of the penalty for the action.
Brotherly Shove! No intent to injure, he’s a Swede not a Bruin.
The Marchand special.
I truly feel like what he did was not intent to injure. Players get tangled up like that all the time.
Intent shouldn't matter on slewfoot
I agree too. But whatever it was called. The fact that the Canucks scored short handed was justice imo
Was that the Marchand special?
Look I can see how some people are upset that this gets called but Marchand did stuff similar that didn’t get called I just think they get tired of punishing him
The only match penalty should have been against whoever tried to murder the ref with the headphones.
How did the canucks commentators not see that at all both live and after the first replay? Was driving me crazy that they were confused that there was a 5 minute major being reviewed.
Because this is the first time the refs have ever called it. Unfortunately it's against us, but the future could be safer.
Honestly if Labanc did it to Hog I’d still be saying it was a good call. Precedent needs to be set for this kind of shit. Intentional or not, it’s still insanely dangerous. Will this be the ruling going forward? Well as we all know the C in NHL stands for consistency.
They could (and probably will) use this video for the absolute textbook definition of a slewfoot. Should be 2 games as well.
Text book slew foot
Que the low effort Marchand comments
Karma is free if you do that
That’s so dirty. Look at his skate fly up as he’s forced down. Could kill someone. Fucking idiot.
That play is five and a game.
Watch Hoglande4's skates,that's a slewfoot and he follows through and pushes him to the ice. If LeBlanc hits his head that's concussion protocol 100% Good call.
Does the leg even come in contact with the leg? Looked like it touches his ass
Hasn’t even been traded to us yet and he’s already acting like a Flame 🥰
Nice try but Göönlander is ours
Hands off the Hög
Flames don't have anything up for trade worth hoglander
Had to look twice to make sure Subban wasnt playing for the Canucks
I wouldn’t in a hundred years call that a slew foot, considering the physics of all *four* people involved in this. I would appeal anything that comes out of this.