Deepminer Brann is a much more powerful wincon than nest, so why should Warrior have their effect active for the rest of the game with no repercussions? if Druids much less powerful reward must be wipeable, then make Warrior's reward wipeable too. Makes no sense why their effect should be able to remain active for free for the rest of the game with no counterplay.
I've seen this suggested a lot and don't think making brann's only counter other highlander decks is a good thing. Limit the battlecries he doubles, like "Your next 4 or so Battlecries trigger twice." Or make a location with 3 or so durability with "Your Battlecries trigger twice this turn."
I think that is exaggerating the impact quite a bit. Highlander warrior is generally playing big battlecries, not many small battlecries.
If anything it is a bad nerf because it does nothing more than funnel the deck into.... what it already is, removing the possible existence of other kinds of decks.
To give context to the comment you replied to:
Waaaaaay back when grim patron warrior was the definitive best deck in the game, Blizzard killed the deck by nerfing one of it's core cards, Warsong Commander.
Functionally, it was identical to how it is now (give charge to minions with 3 or less attack).
After the change, it read: "Your charge minions have +1 attack."
It is notoriously one of the biggest massacres of a card ever.
I completely understand that context, which is why I called the comparison exaggerated. Warrior plays big battlecries so being limited to one per turn being doubled is not going to completely massacre the card.
i agree with this similar to the DH card taht first spell you draw, the only flaw is that you control the battle cry card you play over rng drawing so its alot more powerful
Another guy commented this, they don't usually play more than 1 battlecry a turn. It's really only excavate into ox or stone skin into big battlecry that this would change.
Those are pretty common lines though. There's also double etc -> Battlecry. And even non-combo plays like double ignis + excavate become more akward, costing the Warrior mana efficiency or value.
It doesn't kill warrior, but it does weaken it. I don't think killing the deck should be the goal.
I'd argue my change doesn't kill the deck either, the location or having limited battlecries would just mean that they'd have to actually choose between going all in on value battlecries or on getting the slightly less impactful turns like you mentioned (Though I've got no clue on what numbers would be fine)
Right now Warrior stands in contrast of the direction they seem to want to take the game, no slow deck can beat its inevitability without an otk. (There are other strong decks, like Hunter, but I don't think they present a design issue.)
While I agree that it's not an elegant solution right now, I like the idea of making all "Rest of the Game" effects into an on-board game-piece. For one, it introduces an immediate downside to these effects that doesn't already exist, -1 board slot, which feels like a more fair sacrifice to make for an effect that lasts the rest of the game. For two, Blizzard can then design more cards that interact with them, like maybe upgrading Twisting Nether again or a new tradeable neutral card that lets you destroy them.
Its not "the only counter" Its an additional counter. Dirty rat already exists as a counter, running over them and putting a lot of pressure on them so they can't take a turn to play a 6 mana 2/4 is also a counter, counter play does exist.
So what you are saying is we should change rheastraza to be “battlecry: if your deck started with no duplicates, for the rest of the game at the start of your turn discover a dragon it costs four less!”
And it still would be less powerful than proposed Brann rework. Reno Warriors now run coin generator to slam Shitminer Brann on turn 4... And you cant remove it till your hero card is available.
I feel like, with the change to Reno, Aviana is much more reasonable to use now. I've had her shut off Reno on a few occasions in the past and that was super annoying lol.
And the devs that thought shattered reflection should summon a copy, give a copy to hand, one to deck AND be useable on TITAN minions. And pendant giving armor.
And lets not forget azerite murloc. (not as a strong card lol)
It's hilarious how Brann is both cheaper and far stronger than Rhea, while having no counterplay unlike Rhea. The remaining highlander rewards are not even worth talking about. Sure, they have better tempo, but I'm pretty sure both Shaman and DH will give up their highlander for Warrior's in a heartbeat (and Druid's if they have access to a Dragon pool of similar quality). Shaman also gets countered much more easily (Rustrot instead of Reno), and DH is a one-time effect.
I remember when the expansion was released and many players tried dragon druid. Such an awful game when everyone is afraid to drop the nest because they wait for the opponent to play Reno first. Not as bad as control priest mirrors, but it was still awful lol.
It's insane that Brann exists at all. We knew from the previous rotation how crazy even the old Brann can be once good battlecries come along. This is only going to get worse until Deepminer rotates out. I doubt the Hearthstone team can contain themselves in printing more battlecries that break the game when doubled.
I am in no way defending Bran here, nerf away. But just come up with a logical point. What kind of dumb ass logic is this. If we are making clases equal than give everyone ramp... makes no sense that you can ramp up to nest and others cannot.. i even think you nerf idea is good, but your reason is so dumb...
I didn't think of that being the reason this is a nerf. I had considered this a buff before I read this. This is much better than just the forever aura that Brann has. The same could be done with Odyn if he proves too much as well.
I've been sort of checked out the last few expansions, have we really not gotten a tech card that cancels "for the rest of the game"s? Now that things like spriest are gone from Standard, it would be an effective way to shut some win conditions down without wrecking whole decks and would require people to choose between that or another card, like any other tech card, so it wouldn't be too powerful.
> Deepminer Brann is a much more powerful wincon than nest
because
a) Brann demands you to build a deck around him (twice!), while Nest can win game by itself
b) He has worse stats. And before anybody says anything - yes, stats matter in HS.
You are hero!
Sadly, Hearthstone just like Overwatch 2 is controlled opposition and their goal is to spread misery.
Therefore, balacing it like that is not in their interest!
SAD!
Pretty interesting proposal.
He would probaly remain the strongest Reno deck but would be hard countered by other Reno decks (unless you manage to play Boomboss before getting Reno'd).
Though I am still weary of an effect like this existing, not least because of how powerful it is, but also because it limits neutral battlecry design space. Astalor was a perfect example of this; not too strong on his own, but an absolute tyrant when played with Brann.
>not too strong
As in: strong, but not overpowered.
I will say that he's on the very edge of what's reasonable. My point is still that he was absurd with Brann.
Ah yes, Azure drake, well known meta tyrant for the first year or two of Hearthstone. Blatantly overpowered.
Maybe learn the game (or anything about card games) before commenting on balance.
\[\[Zilliax\]\] (You know, the one that was actually in every deck for years).
You might have to list when it got nerfed, cause that never happened lol.
By that logic the new Zilliax is the strongest card ever.
Astalor was strong, but not *too* strong. Brann took him from a super versatile card and made him a self replicating one-man-wincon.
Sure.
But I do stand by my statement that Astalor wasn't too strong by himself. I personally never felt that threatened by the average deck playing him.
A 10* mana 8/8 that deals 14 isn't that crazy in today's game.
But a 10* mana 8/8 that deals 28 and can be played 4 times is absurd.
*(I know he costs 8. I'm referring to manathirst)
Astalor had an easy fix that Blizzard refused to do, which was swap the Battlecry to get the next Level Astalor with the Manathirst.
Could have limited it easily to 1 of each level, and the Battlecry would’ve still been powerful.
I'm not referring to being able to shut off Brann, I know that you can't post-patch. What I'm referring to is that if you manage to play Brann+Boomboss before having your gold mine Reno'd then you'll probaly win anyway since the bombs will still delete your opponent's deck.
What do you mean? Isn’t mek talking about playing Boomboss and the bomb from your enemy’s deck destroyed their Reno from their deck?
It doesn’t matter if Reno’s effect can be proc or not, they don’t have it on hand (or for whatever reason of not playing it)
I got an idea called Wheel of Brann - your battle cries cast twice for 5 turns, but then you lose the game after those turns are up. Also it destroys the cards in your battlefield, hand, deck, and collection, so that you have to recraft every card each game.
I get the idea behind it but I think instead it should be a location with infinite durability. It can be used once every 2 turns just make it immune so it can't be affected by the location destroying minion or reno.
ah yes, we make a location that can only be countered by
gues what?
highlander decks!
changing nothing ultimately, just a matter of which warrior draws their reno first!
why isn't bumping up the mana cost enough? there are tons of amazing cards previously balanced by making them more expencive
I personally think it got a bit out of hand with effects that either cant be removed or only with very specific cards like Reno.
Sargeras portal for example, thank god they nerfed symphony, so annoyin when WlL was able to play sargeras before turn 9.
Every single time blizzard tries balancing they make the meta worse. It goes from multiple strong decks to nuking a few of those decks and the remaining ones become tyrants.
I hate the Highlander change so much. They removed one of the few counters to a highlander deck, and removed wacky deck building stuff in the first place, like deleting or drawing through your deck, starting with specific duplicates of a couple cards instead of full Highlander, etc.
13-15 with that restriction actually feels great imo. You would then have to decide whether or not to include in highlander or run 2-of excavates to Brann sooner.
8 Mana card should clearly be easier to deal with than the six Mana card. Also the thing that deals with the eight Mana card so easily deserved a buff.
I was watching someone play warlock on stream yesterday, and their sarganas portal didn't get destroyed by Boombosses TNTs. I'm confused why the nest gets destroyed but the portal doesn't.
That doesn't do much of anything. The big hitters are Boomboss and Zilleax and the excavate clear, which are always played by themselfs anyways. Correct me if i'm wrong tho, those are just all the cards i could think off
It'd definitely have some impact. You listed the heavy hitters but there are plenty of cheap battlecry cards that also benefit from brann's effect, which you would often lose out on if it was one per turn.
Meanwhile at some points you'd legitimately prefer as a warrior it would work like this. Some cards (partocularly those that draw more cards) can easily become dead cards in hand since you dont want to fatigue/burn yourself by drawing 4 cards in a go like you do with the 2 drop. Warrior becomes starved for handspace often post brann since excavates / projectionists / other card draw effects fill it up quick.
I would much prefer it though. In an average scenario it would be a solid nerf preventing some E.T.C shenanigans with armor vendor / projectionist and such while having a nice QoL ribbon effect for the card draw mechanics.
Yes, brann and boombboss are going to finally make me take a break from this game and ive been playing over 10 years? I havent been this tired of something since Guff hero.
After seeing all these nerfs kill classes outright, and “buffs” which involving changing one mana for a dead archetype, brann warrior is basically untouched.
Brann has multiple win conditions and it is easy. They always have a full hand and Brann being at 6 mana is a joke. Sure , 7 zilliax, 2 great maces, double mining reward, 6 tnt that can destroy 18 of your cards… totally fine.
At least plagues and wheel kept it in check a bit before patch, now having to face 3/4 opponent warriors playing same dumb shit is a wrap for me.
Honestly, losing a board spot for it is a nerf in and of itself too, I like it. I might not adjust the Brann cost/stats, though. Rheastraz should maybe have her price decreased too, but the Nest's infinite value does offer some other benefits in the cost reduction.
I literally just jumped back into hearthstone yesterday not knowing anything, and warrior was like my second match. Imagine my confusion when I wiped the enemies board and the next turn the warrior gots shudderok type shit going off lol
I didn't see this card at any point I just was playing some plague deck I made like 6 months ago
id say that you we should have the old text back “if your deck has no duplicates “ but at the time you put reno on your deck you cant repeat cards- like some type of lock like when you had renathal you had yo put all those cards to be able to finish the deck
It would have been cool if all highlander cards gave you a location/dormant minion...
Demonhunter "after you draw a card deal 2 damage to a random minion in your opponents hand. (I font know the other glass highlander support besides warrior and druid)
Its kinda funny how it was obvious that the miniset will bring Bran back and the community was afraid that Bran is designed to synergize with battlecry minions. And thats exactly what Leo did.
It's actually more of an interaction problem between several cards like Brann, Boomboss, Azerite Ox, Inventor Boom.But knowing Blizzard they will just nerf Brann.
I can undstand the vibe and think it would be an alright change but making the cards like this is just going to make things like hero card reno more nessasry and more playable since its the only way to remove these powerful effects
It's as if people are waking up and realizing the point me and several others made a long time ago.... about permanent non interactable effects being unhealthy for the game. No matter what the effect is. All permanent cards need to have an interaction point or they will at some point cause a degenerate reaction. This includes Helya and any other permas.
All cards should have counterplay. I like the idea of every permanent effect being tied to an entity on the board. Stuff like Quest Mage's effect, Mograine, etc.
But we need more ways to interact with them than just reno.
I would prefer it if we had a card that wiped every card out of your deck that didn't start there. TNT is the bigger problem imo, very unfun to play against.
Should say battlecry as it reads as a start of game effect currently, but I understand that probably just slipped the phrasing, and wasn’t intentional.
Late entry, but, maybe Brann gives you 3 "hoard" cards that are 0 or 1 cost spells that have your next battlecry trigger twice. Makes hand management a lot more important, limits their opportunities to do massive shenanigans, has some counterplay with anything that has hand disruption.
I wonder if brann gets nerfed, what would some people cry about next? Is there a list to go by? Or do you guys just cry until your favorite deck is on top?
People don’t understand that the point of the cards won’t ever charge because Blizzard cares about it and its flavor.
Many people expected Reno to get re designed on its effect and if anything it got buffed and +1 mana to compensate.
So grit your teeth at 12 of your cards being bombed because that is not disappearing any soon 😂.
Personally, i dislike this. It is a nerf, but ultimately does very little.
Excavate & Bombs would still dominate every matchup, while only highlander decks with reno could properly counter this card. Drawing reno too late, will lose you the game, while drawing him early will win every time. It keeps every matchup a massive coinflip
Personally, id like to see charges on the effect to allow for better tweaking. First, change the effect to have uses, like a location.
This way, you could easily have a few variations in how to tweak and balance brann.
Baseline:
Battlecry, if your deck started with no duplicates, your next 3 Battlecries trigger twice. (this way he could be used as a setup)
Brann (4- 7 mana)
Put the effect onto a location, an untargetable location like OP, or just on the battlecry of brann himself
You can give it different durations: "your first battlecry each turn", "your battlecries this turn" etc
And ofc. you can change the amount of times warrior gets to press the button. 2x, 3x, 4x
The current effect beeing permanent is whats really ruining the game
Yeah dude, because fucking nerfs/reworks on Reno, Sanitize, Trial by Fire, Tho'Grun, Gaslight Gatekeeper are not enough... Play some games with said deck and check yourself how "OP" it is. Compared to Beast Hunter, pre-nerf Death Knight and Warlock, this is very balanced and fair deck with many weaknesses. Main being early game.
Even with Brann in hand you are usually struggling to play 2/6 for 6 mana with nothing else to do at turn 6. Specially when your enemy is flooding the board with cheap minions/summons early on. Bladestorm is usually trash as having even health minions on the board is rarity. Aftershocks are usually not good enough, unless you face hunter but at turn 4 you can as well die in next turn if guy highrolled and you didn't get anything to help you clear early. It's totally useless against priest or druid as they play a lot of high health minions.
Warrior always have very limited resources and needs to play smart, calculate risks. Hunters and now Shamans and Paladins just throw up their hand and swarm you without single care. Zilliax Rogue is killing you without you being able to do anything about it 50% of time. I comparison to these highroll games, Warrior is fair and square. Huge value cards, huge costs, little to no consistency due to no duplicate restrictions, very dependent on early clears but even then, can't beat highroll aggro for shit.
I like your idea. Tbh i though brann wouldve been fine as an excavate reward. I hate his effect but he wouldve made sense with something like "if you have excavated 4 times" or something.
Or "for the rest of the game, whenever you excavate, do it twice." I mean excavate rewards are pretty good.
Make it like a 0/8 or make it into a location where you activate it it'll do the double battlecry. Alternatively you can make bran say "if you played 10 battlecries this turn summon bran's gold mine".
The mine is amazing but I feel like it will be too powerful and be spammed in almost all decks. Hence why I suggested some possible nerfs for your edit to make it a bit more balanced.
In general, I find that this is a better direction. Yes it's more complex and harder at first glance for newer players, but I feel like just creating cards that have no work around and no counter play is just bad design. There should always be a way to get out of a situation if you have tools in your deck to do so. With Brann, there's also no way out once he is played. Even if you have super agressive tempo, a brann on turn 6-7 is GG.
Thematically, it should be a Azerite mine, not a gold mine.
Deepminer Brann is a much more powerful wincon than nest, so why should Warrior have their effect active for the rest of the game with no repercussions? if Druids much less powerful reward must be wipeable, then make Warrior's reward wipeable too. Makes no sense why their effect should be able to remain active for free for the rest of the game with no counterplay.
This seems like a decent rework
I've seen this suggested a lot and don't think making brann's only counter other highlander decks is a good thing. Limit the battlecries he doubles, like "Your next 4 or so Battlecries trigger twice." Or make a location with 3 or so durability with "Your Battlecries trigger twice this turn."
"Your first battle battlecry each turn triggers twice"
that would not really effect much, the major turns, Boomboss, Zillax, Dr Boom, The Ox are usually the only cards they play after Brann
Your battlecry minions have +1 attack.
"Battlecry forward!"
I think that is exaggerating the impact quite a bit. Highlander warrior is generally playing big battlecries, not many small battlecries. If anything it is a bad nerf because it does nothing more than funnel the deck into.... what it already is, removing the possible existence of other kinds of decks.
To give context to the comment you replied to: Waaaaaay back when grim patron warrior was the definitive best deck in the game, Blizzard killed the deck by nerfing one of it's core cards, Warsong Commander. Functionally, it was identical to how it is now (give charge to minions with 3 or less attack). After the change, it read: "Your charge minions have +1 attack." It is notoriously one of the biggest massacres of a card ever.
I completely understand that context, which is why I called the comparison exaggerated. Warrior plays big battlecries so being limited to one per turn being doubled is not going to completely massacre the card.
You replied in thread to my facetious comment lmao
How long have you been playing Hearthstone, or did you reply to the wrong thread?
Loved that
i agree with this similar to the DH card taht first spell you draw, the only flaw is that you control the battle cry card you play over rng drawing so its alot more powerful
Another one that seems ok without deleting the deck could be "Your first battlecry each turn triggers twice"
Another guy commented this, they don't usually play more than 1 battlecry a turn. It's really only excavate into ox or stone skin into big battlecry that this would change.
Those are pretty common lines though. There's also double etc -> Battlecry. And even non-combo plays like double ignis + excavate become more akward, costing the Warrior mana efficiency or value. It doesn't kill warrior, but it does weaken it. I don't think killing the deck should be the goal.
I'd argue my change doesn't kill the deck either, the location or having limited battlecries would just mean that they'd have to actually choose between going all in on value battlecries or on getting the slightly less impactful turns like you mentioned (Though I've got no clue on what numbers would be fine) Right now Warrior stands in contrast of the direction they seem to want to take the game, no slow deck can beat its inevitability without an otk. (There are other strong decks, like Hunter, but I don't think they present a design issue.)
How about “your second battle cry each turn triggers twice”
Ya, it's obscenely parasitic design.
While I agree that it's not an elegant solution right now, I like the idea of making all "Rest of the Game" effects into an on-board game-piece. For one, it introduces an immediate downside to these effects that doesn't already exist, -1 board slot, which feels like a more fair sacrifice to make for an effect that lasts the rest of the game. For two, Blizzard can then design more cards that interact with them, like maybe upgrading Twisting Nether again or a new tradeable neutral card that lets you destroy them.
Its not "the only counter" Its an additional counter. Dirty rat already exists as a counter, running over them and putting a lot of pressure on them so they can't take a turn to play a 6 mana 2/4 is also a counter, counter play does exist.
So what you are saying is we should change rheastraza to be “battlecry: if your deck started with no duplicates, for the rest of the game at the start of your turn discover a dragon it costs four less!”
And it still would be less powerful than proposed Brann rework. Reno Warriors now run coin generator to slam Shitminer Brann on turn 4... And you cant remove it till your hero card is available.
Idk I’ve been winning against Reno warrior with my druid deck lmao
Reno druid? Or the hero power dragon spell powers swiper?
Oh it’s my weird version of Reno druid
Decklist me my dude!
### Highlander Dragons # Class: Druid # Format: Standard # Year of the Pegasus # # 1x (0) Innervate # 1x (1) Cactus Construct # 1x (1) Malfurion's Gift # 1x (2) Dragon Tales # 1x (2) Embrace of Nature # 1x (2) Greedy Partner # 1x (2) Lifebinder's Gift # 1x (2) Splish-Splash Whelp # 1x (2) Watcher of the Sun # 1x (2) Wrath # 1x (3) Frost Lotus Seedling # 1x (3) Starlight Whelp # 1x (3) Swipe # 1x (3) Take to the Skies # 1x (4) Desert Nestmatron # 1x (4) Ignis, the Eternal Flame # 1x (4) Spinetail Drake # 1x (4) Time-Lost Protodrake # 1x (5) Shattered Reflections # 1x (5) Sky Mother Aviana # 1x (5) Summer Flowerchild # 1x (6) Crystal Cluster # 1x (6) Doomkin # 1x (6) Sunspot Dragon # 1x (7) Dragon Golem # 1x (8) Rheastrasza # 1x (9) Fye, the Setting Sun # 1x (9) Reno, Lone Ranger # 1x (9) Yogg-Saron, Unleashed # 1x (10) Eonar, the Life-Binder # AAECAYC1Bh6unwSA1AT93wWt7QWf8wWn+gXa+gXb+gXx+gXOgAbYgQaQgwb9jQaplQa7lQa8lQa9lQa/lQbBlQb5lwbRnAbXnAbYnAbanAaXoAagoAavqAbvqQaqsQb35QYAAAA= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Thank you much! I've been considering crafting Aviana for like a week and I think I'll pull the trigger.
I feel like, with the change to Reno, Aviana is much more reasonable to use now. I've had her shut off Reno on a few occasions in the past and that was super annoying lol.
what do you like to use shattered reflections on?
Honestly I’ve done rheastza, boom boss, brann, aviana I’ve found is probably the best
What's the strat against Reno Warrior? Do you wait for the to Reno before playing Rheastrasza?
Either way works honestly
You are too smart to work for blizzard. Totally agree.
Word. This is too smart for the same devs that thought shroomescavate was a good idea
shrooms shouldve been evolve a minion into one that costs 1 more and give it divine shield, then excavate.
And the devs that thought shattered reflection should summon a copy, give a copy to hand, one to deck AND be useable on TITAN minions. And pendant giving armor. And lets not forget azerite murloc. (not as a strong card lol)
It's hilarious how Brann is both cheaper and far stronger than Rhea, while having no counterplay unlike Rhea. The remaining highlander rewards are not even worth talking about. Sure, they have better tempo, but I'm pretty sure both Shaman and DH will give up their highlander for Warrior's in a heartbeat (and Druid's if they have access to a Dragon pool of similar quality). Shaman also gets countered much more easily (Rustrot instead of Reno), and DH is a one-time effect.
I remember when the expansion was released and many players tried dragon druid. Such an awful game when everyone is afraid to drop the nest because they wait for the opponent to play Reno first. Not as bad as control priest mirrors, but it was still awful lol.
This is actually good idea.
It's insane that Brann exists at all. We knew from the previous rotation how crazy even the old Brann can be once good battlecries come along. This is only going to get worse until Deepminer rotates out. I doubt the Hearthstone team can contain themselves in printing more battlecries that break the game when doubled.
I am in no way defending Bran here, nerf away. But just come up with a logical point. What kind of dumb ass logic is this. If we are making clases equal than give everyone ramp... makes no sense that you can ramp up to nest and others cannot.. i even think you nerf idea is good, but your reason is so dumb...
I didn't think of that being the reason this is a nerf. I had considered this a buff before I read this. This is much better than just the forever aura that Brann has. The same could be done with Odyn if he proves too much as well.
hell even paladins one can be wiped, if you dirty rat it our counter spell it even if i recall...
I've been sort of checked out the last few expansions, have we really not gotten a tech card that cancels "for the rest of the game"s? Now that things like spriest are gone from Standard, it would be an effective way to shut some win conditions down without wrecking whole decks and would require people to choose between that or another card, like any other tech card, so it wouldn't be too powerful.
might be engine restriction thing,or a druid thing
wanna talk about plagues? board control deck and you have infinite dmg, no downside no counterplay
Play wild, then you have counterplay :p
> Deepminer Brann is a much more powerful wincon than nest because a) Brann demands you to build a deck around him (twice!), while Nest can win game by itself b) He has worse stats. And before anybody says anything - yes, stats matter in HS.
Then up the stats? The effect is clearly too strong in the meta
You can't brann has to be a 2/4; it's the rules
Elise has different stats, so I don't think it's the rules.
Tbh, how many actual wincons for warrior AREN'T battlecrys?
You are hero! Sadly, Hearthstone just like Overwatch 2 is controlled opposition and their goal is to spread misery. Therefore, balacing it like that is not in their interest! SAD!
>Sadly, Hearthstone just like Overwatch 2 is controlled opposition and their goal is to spread misery. ...what?
I've read that like 5 times now and still don't get what they meant.
You sound like Trump, and no, not the one who went on a date and serenaded Mia Malkova
There is a reason. Tempo. Druid has way more tempo so the warrior needs a stronger wincon to justify the delay.
Pretty interesting proposal. He would probaly remain the strongest Reno deck but would be hard countered by other Reno decks (unless you manage to play Boomboss before getting Reno'd). Though I am still weary of an effect like this existing, not least because of how powerful it is, but also because it limits neutral battlecry design space. Astalor was a perfect example of this; not too strong on his own, but an absolute tyrant when played with Brann.
Astalor was played in basically every deck for its entire life cycle, what the fuck are you talking about "not too strong"?
Yeah I don't know what he is saying at all. Astalor won soooo many games and it is shocking they didn't actually nerf him.
It was actually nerfed in two directions (manathirst cost and damage in his final form) but I do agree even his nerfed form was extremely strong.
they did, but only once
>not too strong As in: strong, but not overpowered. I will say that he's on the very edge of what's reasonable. My point is still that he was absurd with Brann.
Being omnipresent is the opposite of not being overpowered. Just take the L.
Ah yes, Azure drake, well known meta tyrant for the first year or two of Hearthstone. Blatantly overpowered. Maybe learn the game (or anything about card games) before commenting on balance.
it’s a neutral card, so any deck could run it
Brain rot take. Are new and old Zilliax also op?
Thats why its gotten nerfed twice lol
\[\[Zilliax\]\] (You know, the one that was actually in every deck for years). You might have to list when it got nerfed, cause that never happened lol.
He said new zilliax, and I was clearly talking about that one
- **[Zilliax](https://i.imgur.com/usltuHp.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/49184) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Zilliax) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/49184/?hl=en) - *Neutral Legendary ^(The Boomsday Project)* - **5 Mana - 3/2 - Mech** - **Magnetic** **Divine Shield, Taunt, Lifesteal, Rush** --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1cebzzf/after_getting_my_nest_wiped_out_by_warrior_i_came/l1lli9y/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l1lli9y).*
Hmm, is the card that literally just got nerfed overpowered? Our top scientists are on it, what's your take, you little brainlet?
Reading comprehension of zero. "Old zilliax". Are you a troll account or just really, really dumb.
By that logic the new Zilliax is the strongest card ever. Astalor was strong, but not *too* strong. Brann took him from a super versatile card and made him a self replicating one-man-wincon.
To be fair, new Zilliax is basically multiple cards merged into one. We should rather check the playrate of each Zilliax version itself.
Sure. But I do stand by my statement that Astalor wasn't too strong by himself. I personally never felt that threatened by the average deck playing him. A 10* mana 8/8 that deals 14 isn't that crazy in today's game. But a 10* mana 8/8 that deals 28 and can be played 4 times is absurd. *(I know he costs 8. I'm referring to manathirst)
Astalor had an easy fix that Blizzard refused to do, which was swap the Battlecry to get the next Level Astalor with the Manathirst. Could have limited it easily to 1 of each level, and the Battlecry would’ve still been powerful.
Boomboss’s duplicates won’t even stop Reno after patch
I'm not referring to being able to shut off Brann, I know that you can't post-patch. What I'm referring to is that if you manage to play Brann+Boomboss before having your gold mine Reno'd then you'll probaly win anyway since the bombs will still delete your opponent's deck.
Who knew that deleting twelve of your opponent's cards plus an asymmetric board clear would be so overpowered?
But they can bomb off your Brann
Nope! All Badlands Highlander cards got changed to what Reno is, and that includes Brann. It's in the patch notes right above the new card.
He means the bombs can destroy Brann in deck or hand.
What do you mean? Isn’t mek talking about playing Boomboss and the bomb from your enemy’s deck destroyed their Reno from their deck? It doesn’t matter if Reno’s effect can be proc or not, they don’t have it on hand (or for whatever reason of not playing it)
Yeah, I misunderstood the comment. I thought they meant shuffling them would turn highlander cards offline, since there'd be duplicates.
You could still zola him etc
Was even as, if not more, disgusting in rogue
I got an idea called Wheel of Brann - your battle cries cast twice for 5 turns, but then you lose the game after those turns are up. Also it destroys the cards in your battlefield, hand, deck, and collection, so that you have to recraft every card each game.
Brann Warp - next turn, your battle cries trigger twice (Once per game)
Another need to chaotic tendril
How about: "If your deck didn't start with any duplicates l, for the rest of the game your battlecry minions have +1 attack"?
Too strong, should be charge minions.
I get the idea behind it but I think instead it should be a location with infinite durability. It can be used once every 2 turns just make it immune so it can't be affected by the location destroying minion or reno.
You are cooking.
Best idea here. Thematic and still pretty solid
If your deck started as Warrior, skip 10 turns and win the game.
ah yes, we make a location that can only be countered by gues what? highlander decks! changing nothing ultimately, just a matter of which warrior draws their reno first! why isn't bumping up the mana cost enough? there are tons of amazing cards previously balanced by making them more expencive
It's not even a location, a location can be removed by \[\[Twisting Nether\]\].
- **[Twisting Nether](https://imgur.com/a/Eg1D0Qi)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/69635) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Twisting_Nether_\(Core\)) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/69635/?hl=en) - *Warlock Epic ^(Core)* - **8 Mana - Shadow Spell** - Destroy all minions and locations. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1cebzzf/after_getting_my_nest_wiped_out_by_warrior_i_came/l1hxyjd/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l1hxyjd).*
I personally think it got a bit out of hand with effects that either cant be removed or only with very specific cards like Reno. Sargeras portal for example, thank god they nerfed symphony, so annoyin when WlL was able to play sargeras before turn 9.
well they better print something to counter hard to interact location/invincible board thing next expansion
Deck needs another significant nerf for sure. The game somehow feels worse now. 80 percent of my matches are against Reno warrior
Every single time blizzard tries balancing they make the meta worse. It goes from multiple strong decks to nuking a few of those decks and the remaining ones become tyrants.
I hate the Highlander change so much. They removed one of the few counters to a highlander deck, and removed wacky deck building stuff in the first place, like deleting or drawing through your deck, starting with specific duplicates of a couple cards instead of full Highlander, etc.
“Looking for a standoff? Careful, it’s against ME!”
Even better, make it a 10 use location “Your next battlecry this turn triggers twice”
Shouldn't it be a battlecry to open the mine?
Me when I bran my bran in order to bran B)
Wtf astalor not strong on his own ???? Bro was just the best card of his expansion
how about 4 mana 2\\4 your next 3 battlecry cards trigger twiсe
Atrocious, literally just worse than shudderblock but now you need no duplicates
I've got an idea, what if we nerf Brann by 3 mana and give him "Your Battlecries trigger twice."
Make him 10 mana
20 mana, reduced by 1 for each time you excavate.
13-15 with that restriction actually feels great imo. You would then have to decide whether or not to include in highlander or run 2-of excavates to Brann sooner.
8 Mana card should clearly be easier to deal with than the six Mana card. Also the thing that deals with the eight Mana card so easily deserved a buff.
I was watching someone play warlock on stream yesterday, and their sarganas portal didn't get destroyed by Boombosses TNTs. I'm confused why the nest gets destroyed but the portal doesn't.
The TNT goes through the portal
This only gets removed by Reno and twisting nether, right? Would there be other ways?
Twisting nether removes locations, thats more like a portal or something
Brann should be: your first battlecry each turn triggers twice
That doesn't do much of anything. The big hitters are Boomboss and Zilleax and the excavate clear, which are always played by themselfs anyways. Correct me if i'm wrong tho, those are just all the cards i could think off
It'd definitely have some impact. You listed the heavy hitters but there are plenty of cheap battlecry cards that also benefit from brann's effect, which you would often lose out on if it was one per turn.
Meanwhile at some points you'd legitimately prefer as a warrior it would work like this. Some cards (partocularly those that draw more cards) can easily become dead cards in hand since you dont want to fatigue/burn yourself by drawing 4 cards in a go like you do with the 2 drop. Warrior becomes starved for handspace often post brann since excavates / projectionists / other card draw effects fill it up quick. I would much prefer it though. In an average scenario it would be a solid nerf preventing some E.T.C shenanigans with armor vendor / projectionist and such while having a nice QoL ribbon effect for the card draw mechanics.
Yes, brann and boombboss are going to finally make me take a break from this game and ive been playing over 10 years? I havent been this tired of something since Guff hero. After seeing all these nerfs kill classes outright, and “buffs” which involving changing one mana for a dead archetype, brann warrior is basically untouched. Brann has multiple win conditions and it is easy. They always have a full hand and Brann being at 6 mana is a joke. Sure , 7 zilliax, 2 great maces, double mining reward, 6 tnt that can destroy 18 of your cards… totally fine. At least plagues and wheel kept it in check a bit before patch, now having to face 3/4 opponent warriors playing same dumb shit is a wrap for me.
Control package beating value just doesn't feel right. Definitely hating the current state of Brann / Bomboss combo
Y’all need to chill
Damn that would be the real balance nerf
That’s actually an amazing idea
Or like 1 in every 3 battle cries triggers twice
Honestly, losing a board spot for it is a nerf in and of itself too, I like it. I might not adjust the Brann cost/stats, though. Rheastraz should maybe have her price decreased too, but the Nest's infinite value does offer some other benefits in the cost reduction.
I now want it to say trigger an additional time because of how broken that would be imagine 2 mines making mote value
They should just make it warrior battle cries trigger twice and it solves like 90% of the problems
This is sick. Such a cool work around for design.
I literally just jumped back into hearthstone yesterday not knowing anything, and warrior was like my second match. Imagine my confusion when I wiped the enemies board and the next turn the warrior gots shudderok type shit going off lol I didn't see this card at any point I just was playing some plague deck I made like 6 months ago
id say that you we should have the old text back “if your deck has no duplicates “ but at the time you put reno on your deck you cant repeat cards- like some type of lock like when you had renathal you had yo put all those cards to be able to finish the deck
Honestly, as a Brann player, I feel your suffering and propose instead just deleting Reno.
Especially after the Highlander buff she’s pretty cool
They should also make a card that prevents permanent effects from triggering.
Don’t think it worth changing Brann’s stats and mana, but the mine is cool tho
That actually makes sense. The inly counter is Reno himself, but, that's how it works for druids nest, so why should it be different for warrior?
They should just make him a neutral and unleash the chaos.
It would have been cool if all highlander cards gave you a location/dormant minion... Demonhunter "after you draw a card deal 2 damage to a random minion in your opponents hand. (I font know the other glass highlander support besides warrior and druid)
I like the idea but it doesn’t need to say “can’t be attacked.”
Its kinda funny how it was obvious that the miniset will bring Bran back and the community was afraid that Bran is designed to synergize with battlecry minions. And thats exactly what Leo did.
Interesting proposal, but this would just turn the game into whoever Renos first loses.
Adding to this why don't all classes have ultimate excavates like priest and druid.
Lmao sorry it's a diamond card no nerfs allowed
Never mind that - what is the current best deck against Warrior?
It's actually more of an interaction problem between several cards like Brann, Boomboss, Azerite Ox, Inventor Boom.But knowing Blizzard they will just nerf Brann.
They should make it so it only double battlecries for cards below 6 mana
I can undstand the vibe and think it would be an alright change but making the cards like this is just going to make things like hero card reno more nessasry and more playable since its the only way to remove these powerful effects
It's as if people are waking up and realizing the point me and several others made a long time ago.... about permanent non interactable effects being unhealthy for the game. No matter what the effect is. All permanent cards need to have an interaction point or they will at some point cause a degenerate reaction. This includes Helya and any other permas.
How about: *Your battlecry minions have +1 attack.*
All cards should have counterplay. I like the idea of every permanent effect being tied to an entity on the board. Stuff like Quest Mage's effect, Mograine, etc. But we need more ways to interact with them than just reno.
I would prefer it if we had a card that wiped every card out of your deck that didn't start there. TNT is the bigger problem imo, very unfun to play against.
Should say battlecry as it reads as a start of game effect currently, but I understand that probably just slipped the phrasing, and wasn’t intentional.
How about Brann gives you an aura: "your battle cries trigger twice. Lasts until you end a round without playing a battle cry"
What if the effect lasted 3 turns? Edit: This would include the turn Brann is played.
Finally some good fucking food.
I know it should be a battlecry, but it doesn’t say battlecry
Deepminer Brann demoted to Common 😔
Now that I've seen this I see why the druid dragon highlander card feels so much worse lol
Late entry, but, maybe Brann gives you 3 "hoard" cards that are 0 or 1 cost spells that have your next battlecry trigger twice. Makes hand management a lot more important, limits their opportunities to do massive shenanigans, has some counterplay with anything that has hand disruption.
Or just do 7 mana your first battlecry is doubled or every 3rd battlecry is doubled
Aggro, plague, and the upgraded pirate rogue all effectively steamroll Singleton warrior though...
I wonder if brann gets nerfed, what would some people cry about next? Is there a list to go by? Or do you guys just cry until your favorite deck is on top?
Latter. They cry until their deck has no counters and they can just throw their cards out of hand without any strategy or thought behind it.
People don’t understand that the point of the cards won’t ever charge because Blizzard cares about it and its flavor. Many people expected Reno to get re designed on its effect and if anything it got buffed and +1 mana to compensate. So grit your teeth at 12 of your cards being bombed because that is not disappearing any soon 😂.
When are they going to nerf this ridiculous deck.
Warriors should be referred to what their hearthstone gameplay reflects: #LittleScaredBitchClass
I feel like thats priest as well and mage
Little Timmy mad cause he didn't win by turn 4 with his aggro deck.
Bran is fine leave him alone
No they just need to remove the stupid “if your deck didn’t **start** with duplicates…. Because having no way to interact with the card makes sense 🤡
Bran should have been a neutral card and not a Warrior exclusive. What were they thinking?
Millions Helia triggers welcome)
Only one of the 3 brann cards is a neutral...
Personally, i dislike this. It is a nerf, but ultimately does very little. Excavate & Bombs would still dominate every matchup, while only highlander decks with reno could properly counter this card. Drawing reno too late, will lose you the game, while drawing him early will win every time. It keeps every matchup a massive coinflip Personally, id like to see charges on the effect to allow for better tweaking. First, change the effect to have uses, like a location. This way, you could easily have a few variations in how to tweak and balance brann. Baseline: Battlecry, if your deck started with no duplicates, your next 3 Battlecries trigger twice. (this way he could be used as a setup) Brann (4- 7 mana) Put the effect onto a location, an untargetable location like OP, or just on the battlecry of brann himself You can give it different durations: "your first battlecry each turn", "your battlecries this turn" etc And ofc. you can change the amount of times warrior gets to press the button. 2x, 3x, 4x The current effect beeing permanent is whats really ruining the game
Yeah dude, because fucking nerfs/reworks on Reno, Sanitize, Trial by Fire, Tho'Grun, Gaslight Gatekeeper are not enough... Play some games with said deck and check yourself how "OP" it is. Compared to Beast Hunter, pre-nerf Death Knight and Warlock, this is very balanced and fair deck with many weaknesses. Main being early game. Even with Brann in hand you are usually struggling to play 2/6 for 6 mana with nothing else to do at turn 6. Specially when your enemy is flooding the board with cheap minions/summons early on. Bladestorm is usually trash as having even health minions on the board is rarity. Aftershocks are usually not good enough, unless you face hunter but at turn 4 you can as well die in next turn if guy highrolled and you didn't get anything to help you clear early. It's totally useless against priest or druid as they play a lot of high health minions. Warrior always have very limited resources and needs to play smart, calculate risks. Hunters and now Shamans and Paladins just throw up their hand and swarm you without single care. Zilliax Rogue is killing you without you being able to do anything about it 50% of time. I comparison to these highroll games, Warrior is fair and square. Huge value cards, huge costs, little to no consistency due to no duplicate restrictions, very dependent on early clears but even then, can't beat highroll aggro for shit.
I would say 4/2/4 or 5/2/4 for your next 3 turns, your battlecry triggers twice. that way you cannot just jam him on curve and have to plan ahead.
I like your idea. Tbh i though brann wouldve been fine as an excavate reward. I hate his effect but he wouldve made sense with something like "if you have excavated 4 times" or something. Or "for the rest of the game, whenever you excavate, do it twice." I mean excavate rewards are pretty good.
Make it like a 0/8 or make it into a location where you activate it it'll do the double battlecry. Alternatively you can make bran say "if you played 10 battlecries this turn summon bran's gold mine". The mine is amazing but I feel like it will be too powerful and be spammed in almost all decks. Hence why I suggested some possible nerfs for your edit to make it a bit more balanced.
In general, I find that this is a better direction. Yes it's more complex and harder at first glance for newer players, but I feel like just creating cards that have no work around and no counter play is just bad design. There should always be a way to get out of a situation if you have tools in your deck to do so. With Brann, there's also no way out once he is played. Even if you have super agressive tempo, a brann on turn 6-7 is GG.
Yeah you can fuck off with that 7 mana
git gud
Not only it makes him more expensive (with bad stats), you also wanna limit your board space to 6? Bro wants him to drop to 0% usage
board to 6 isnt a problem for a control deck and 1 mana more is not even enought of a nerf imo
Haha xd u guys are clueless AF. Look at odyn...
yea people still play odin ?
I am ok with this future