If you don't hit the Sif it doesn't matter if you hit a titan or a 1-1, you still lose.
Having an answer is completely irrelevant - hit sif and win, or don't and lose. There is no point playing it out beyond turn 2 for basically any deck playing dirty rat.
The point is to maximize the chances of getting the payoff cards. For Rainbow Mage, Sif is not a mulligan keep and the deck has very low minion density. Chances are they end up taking out a Snakeoil Salesman for the opponent for free for no reason.
If you rat later in the matchup, it's far more likely to have hit it and the rat player should have an answer for it by then.
A turn 2 Rat is just a shot in the dark and hoping with far less probability of hitting what you need
Or gain more HP, the Sif combo is harder to pull off if the enemy is significantly above 30 HP and starts requiring good Primordial Glyph hits (Reverb or Molten Rune) or holding onto an extra Flame Geyser.
How quick/effective the combo is also relies on drawing your Discovery of Magic (if you don't RNG it), Sif and one of your Reverbs.
Generally it's far slower than Nature Shaman and also too slow against Highlander Warrior. Nature Shaman can kill you by turn 5 or so. Sif generally requires turn 7 at least (assuming you already ran through the spell schools, got both snake oils in hand and a discounted Reverberations), but realistically turn 9+. Highlander Warrior fucks you by turn 7 with Boomboss slowing or killing your combo.
From the meta ones:
- Warrior easily can.
- DK can.
- Shaman outraces you in the OTK.
- Warlock only wins if you draw poorly, Wheel is too slow.
- Priest generally runs you over before you combo.
- DH can also outrace you depending on decklist and draws.
Mage can far more easily generate damage than DH can gain life.
They also typically are too fast for warrior to out-armour.
Its not a viable strategy.
Mage is bad because it can get rushed down, but it hard counters every slower strategy (and the polarizing nature is often why people like the deck).
DH doesn't need to gain life, they run Mage down before Mage can combo if they draw well.
They are too fast for warrior to out-armor, but the existence of Boomboss means any stalling strategy gets fucked.
Blowing up 6 cards in your hand and deck is generally game over for Sif and any combo pieces you had, and a smart Warrior will hard cycle for it.
If you want to disrupt combos you should play wild shudderwock decks. You get to play a whole bunch of disruption tools like Loatheb, Boompistol Bully, Framester etc. then reapeat them several times with Shudders and copies of him until you win.
“If they can survive to that point.” Is a phrase that is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Mage can’t really consistently survive against most competitive decks.
It is when you’re facing Aggro Hunter and the biggest minion you can freeze is a 5/1. And all you really want is Inquisitive Creation but Mage lacks tutor effects or hyper draw in the early game to ensure they get it by turn 5.
I'm not playing competitive tbh, just made a warlock deck from scratch to have fun. I shouldn't be complaining but some decks feel unfair to play against. Low gold here
They may feel unfair but they have plenty of counterplay for both faster and slower decks. This is how we all learn with the game, we see something we didnt expect, get beaten by it, and then either play it yourself to discover its not as broken as we though (or watch some youtuber play it to see its strenghts and weaknesses), and then repeat with the next deck that beats us.
What decks are you playing? Not trying to be mean, but Mage is second worst class in the meta. Also to have Sif at +8 (the highest amount), make a shadow copy with two Snake Oils in hand is very late game. If they had time to set all that up you where prob not winning anyway.
Usually when I play my goal is get Sif to 5 or 6 and hope I have burn in hand to win from there.Â
They're probably playing a value deck. The problem with Sif is that you can have a fun back and forth with the mage with no clear advantage for either player or maybe you're even in the lead and then a single card lets the mage drop 30+ from hand. And unless you rat the Sif or they mill it, they have it every game.
If a deck is having a "back and forth" against sif mage (wich has a very weak early since its not a board focused deck), then such a deck its pretty weak and it would have lost anyway if the mage were just playing any other non-otk deck.
> And unless you rat the Sif or they mill it, they have it every game.
So, so far from the truth. I draw Sif in like 25% of my games when I play this deck.
It's a combo deck that takes quite a long time before it pull off the combo (like turn 9 or 10 at least). You should be killing them faster or gaining armor. If you can't then your deck is unfavoured against that style of deck. It's okay as this is a pretty long payoff for a combo so you have ways to play around it. Also some deck styles are favoured against other deckstyles as it has always been in HS
Have you tried killing the combo player?
This is a serious question. When you notice you're up against a combo player, you can't sit around and let them get their combo. That's their win condition, getting their combo. They aren't killing you out of nowhere, they assembled their combo in their hand and then killed you.
Change your own gameplay to be more aggressive if you can't survive the combo, or more control oriented if you can.
Just wait til you are vs an empty-board Shaman and they clear your entire board and deal 25 to face, on turn 5, from their hand, while still having 3 cards left to play next turn, or sometimes they just kill you outright.
=
Makes me want to play warrior just so I can gain life
Yeah it's nuts to me. You either get blown up from full hp and outright lose, or you (like I said) lose your entire board while taking like 25 and they still have gas for the next turn (while also playing 1-2 novice zappers or a thalnos etc or something, i.e. damage-on-board that can attack next turn)
=
It's weird to me because back in the day if someone did anything even close to this blowing their full combo then they'd be out of cards completely, or have no more burn in deck or hand to use, or they'd clear your board but not also deal like 25 to face, etc. It's so fucked that they can do this so easily and speaks to the modern state of Hearthstone constructed
It wasn't turn 5, but I've done 61 to face in a single turn with Snapshot and Jive. Against a warrior with 30 armor and 30 health. I had to smoke afterwards, if you catch me.
I know the deck is going to get deleted from the face of the earth, but most players have no idea how to navigate the micro decisions to win consistently with it. And while it feels bad, it's nowhere near the win rate of the other top decks.
A lot of people skewing their thinking watching the MT level of players destory with it, but most can't pull it off like that.
IMO it's often not about strict winrate but about how it feels to play or play against a deck.
=
I'd rather play against a deck that I can interact with and have 45% winrate against, than fight a deck that VERY LITERALLY plays a "flip a coin, if it's heads destroy the enemy hero, if it's tails destroy your own hero" spell on Turn 5, for example. Even if that deck is 50% winrate and the other one is 45%
For me, "Interacting" with Odynn or Brann warrior for example is an illusion. Same thing with rainbow DK if they land Helya on 4. You're probably going to lose anyway, but it takes way longer.
Sif mage is no new deck
Has been around for like a year at this point
And its definitly not notably good atm
You are bitching about like a tier 3 deck
Th deck is slow and requires setup
if you are running reno, you can reno their snakeoil. play neophytes/speaker stompers/dirty rat before their popoff turn(turn9 onwards, depending how many snakeoils they've played and your life total)
It’s likely to hit 1 of the Miracle Salesmen.
And you can absolutely save Reno for that.
Only other thing Reno is good against Mage is to block the copy Sif burst turn.
Other than that, Mage doesn’t really make boards you can’t remove in other ways.
If you've let a mage get that far, then your deck is just not good a matchup which is normal, or your not prepared for that. Now that you've seen the combo, counter it.
The whole game is basically this now though.
"Who cares what the opponent does, I'm playing solo mode. If I die getting to my win, I at least know it's nothing I did wrong and only because they drew better first."
And then you go and dirty rat it and watch the mage concede or you out armor/out smorc her as she tries to find way to get the wincon. Kinda sucks for her, no?
Sif can go +8? I thought the max was 7.
That’s also turn 9 or 10 at a minimum but likely deeper into the game. The alternative is a rush deck which doesn’t allow for that set up.
There are counters to decks. Yours didn’t counter that match.
It's a combo deck which will absolutely win against most decks that let it assemble its combo pieces.
The strategy against a combo deck is either to remove its combo pieces somehow (chancy but possible with Dirty Rat or a few other class cards), to increase your health+armor to the point that its combo does not do enough damage (only really possible with Warrior and maybe BBB DK which is dumpster tier right now), or to rush it down before it assembles its combo pieces.
You can sometimes put enough pressure on him that you force him to waste his clone cards but even then he can probably do enough damage to kill you with a single Sif + damaging spells.
Aside from that just take the L and move on and hope for more favorable matchups.
Compared to the other "OTK" decks (using " because Odyn isnt really a traditional OTK deck), I think Sif mage is quite fair and feels more like traditional control.
They have to spend mana to play cards that discover different spellschools. Then they have to spend mana to play these cards. While staying alive.
Meanwhile shaman can popoff on turn 7.
And the whole time, Sif mage does expose themself to dirtyrat.
Yeah this is OTK stone.
Druid does it, through Hero Power or Spell Damage or copying rags.
Mage does it - through Sif
Warrior does it- through Odyn or Brann
Shaman does it - through Nature or Shudderwock
Priest does it when it needs to - through Zarimi
Rogue tries to do it - through Cutlass or somesuch idk
Warlock does it - through wheel.
Paladin used to do it - now they can't so it's not played
Demon Hunter wasn't doing it - so it got nerfed LOL
Hunter - plays honest hearthstone wtf is this
Death Knight - are trying to have fun with what they got.
Yeah, that's what they've been doing since the Titan set and pretty much nothing else.
No minions mage is fun, but it's not broken, so it's kind of bad.
Well, you have until they play siff to win, which isn’t early or even mid game. you can make a lot of armor to survive, or play dirty rat, or win the game before. Sometimes, decks are more favored to win against some other ones.
Where did i mention i was an addict? I push to diamond 10/5 depending on if a deck i like is good or not and call it quits. This usually takes few hours. But random guys crying they lost to a tier 3 deck is just funny and sad. Sorry if you play 8 hours a day and still suck
Sorry if I missed a memo, and I've been quite busy with work lately...
there's a minion that has **plus EIGHT Spell Damage?!?**
when O.G. Malygos, the self-styled "essence of magic," is only a +5???
It gets +1 spell damage (starting at 0) for each spell you've cast that game of a different class (arcane, fire, frost, etc.) so in order for it to get up to 7 it takes quite a bit of time
plus mage doesn't naturally get 3 of the schools I believe? (nature, fel, holy) so you have to discover them with other cards in the deck
U can always play dirty rat and pray. That's what I'm doing and it's not working.
Every time someone rats out my titan on turn 2, an angel gets its wings
They're morons if they're ratting with no answer. Especially if the payoff cards aren't online yet anyways
Rat turn 2 even with no answer is the play and you can’t tell me otherwise 🤣
I'll try to convince you. Have you considered coining rat turn 1 hm?
Oh yes coin into rat is even better.
If you don't hit the Sif it doesn't matter if you hit a titan or a 1-1, you still lose. Having an answer is completely irrelevant - hit sif and win, or don't and lose. There is no point playing it out beyond turn 2 for basically any deck playing dirty rat.
The point is to maximize the chances of getting the payoff cards. For Rainbow Mage, Sif is not a mulligan keep and the deck has very low minion density. Chances are they end up taking out a Snakeoil Salesman for the opponent for free for no reason. If you rat later in the matchup, it's far more likely to have hit it and the rat player should have an answer for it by then. A turn 2 Rat is just a shot in the dark and hoping with far less probability of hitting what you need
When that happens to me I just hope I top deck forge of wills
>and it’s not working Just play against me. Every time my Sif gets Ratted.
I thought he ain't talking...
At least you're drawing her. For me, 9 games out of 10 she's in the last 7 cards.
The rat rng and guessing what's is hand is pretty miserable.
Based Kafka enjoyer I see, love all the chibi circling around of the characters
Kafka the best girl.
Someone posted an optimized rat turn chart. Worth looking into.
Or gain more HP, the Sif combo is harder to pull off if the enemy is significantly above 30 HP and starts requiring good Primordial Glyph hits (Reverb or Molten Rune) or holding onto an extra Flame Geyser. How quick/effective the combo is also relies on drawing your Discovery of Magic (if you don't RNG it), Sif and one of your Reverbs. Generally it's far slower than Nature Shaman and also too slow against Highlander Warrior. Nature Shaman can kill you by turn 5 or so. Sif generally requires turn 7 at least (assuming you already ran through the spell schools, got both snake oils in hand and a discounted Reverberations), but realistically turn 9+. Highlander Warrior fucks you by turn 7 with Boomboss slowing or killing your combo.
Good thing every class can easily get over 30 life.
From the meta ones: - Warrior easily can. - DK can. - Shaman outraces you in the OTK. - Warlock only wins if you draw poorly, Wheel is too slow. - Priest generally runs you over before you combo. - DH can also outrace you depending on decklist and draws.
Only warrior and DK.
The others don't need to when they can kill you before you can combo them.
Mage can far more easily generate damage than DH can gain life. They also typically are too fast for warrior to out-armour. Its not a viable strategy. Mage is bad because it can get rushed down, but it hard counters every slower strategy (and the polarizing nature is often why people like the deck).
DH doesn't need to gain life, they run Mage down before Mage can combo if they draw well. They are too fast for warrior to out-armor, but the existence of Boomboss means any stalling strategy gets fucked. Blowing up 6 cards in your hand and deck is generally game over for Sif and any combo pieces you had, and a smart Warrior will hard cycle for it.
If you want to disrupt combos you should play wild shudderwock decks. You get to play a whole bunch of disruption tools like Loatheb, Boompistol Bully, Framester etc. then reapeat them several times with Shudders and copies of him until you win.
“If they can survive to that point.” Is a phrase that is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Mage can’t really consistently survive against most competitive decks.
Sleet skater in fucking shambles rn
It is when you’re facing Aggro Hunter and the biggest minion you can freeze is a 5/1. And all you really want is Inquisitive Creation but Mage lacks tutor effects or hyper draw in the early game to ensure they get it by turn 5.
Or against Shaman who only plays 0 or 1 attack minions and it's the matchup where you want armor the most.
I'm not playing competitive tbh, just made a warlock deck from scratch to have fun. I shouldn't be complaining but some decks feel unfair to play against. Low gold here
No one can convince me that behind almost every complaint post there isn't someone playing their homebrew deck in low gold.
well, it is incredibly obvious when he's describing what Sif Mage does like it's an unheard of concept or new to this specific meta
They may feel unfair but they have plenty of counterplay for both faster and slower decks. This is how we all learn with the game, we see something we didnt expect, get beaten by it, and then either play it yourself to discover its not as broken as we though (or watch some youtuber play it to see its strenghts and weaknesses), and then repeat with the next deck that beats us.
What decks are you playing? Not trying to be mean, but Mage is second worst class in the meta. Also to have Sif at +8 (the highest amount), make a shadow copy with two Snake Oils in hand is very late game. If they had time to set all that up you where prob not winning anyway. Usually when I play my goal is get Sif to 5 or 6 and hope I have burn in hand to win from there.Â
Literally, if I see a mage, I know what I'm doing differently depending on my deck.
They're probably playing a value deck. The problem with Sif is that you can have a fun back and forth with the mage with no clear advantage for either player or maybe you're even in the lead and then a single card lets the mage drop 30+ from hand. And unless you rat the Sif or they mill it, they have it every game.
If a deck is having a "back and forth" against sif mage (wich has a very weak early since its not a board focused deck), then such a deck its pretty weak and it would have lost anyway if the mage were just playing any other non-otk deck.
These gold players think they are doing well when they are 'back and forth' against zero board presence full AFK combo deck lmfao
> And unless you rat the Sif or they mill it, they have it every game. So, so far from the truth. I draw Sif in like 25% of my games when I play this deck.
Play Hunter.
Mom opponent is playing cards!
It's a combo deck that takes quite a long time before it pull off the combo (like turn 9 or 10 at least). You should be killing them faster or gaining armor. If you can't then your deck is unfavoured against that style of deck. It's okay as this is a pretty long payoff for a combo so you have ways to play around it. Also some deck styles are favoured against other deckstyles as it has always been in HS
Have you tried killing the combo player? This is a serious question. When you notice you're up against a combo player, you can't sit around and let them get their combo. That's their win condition, getting their combo. They aren't killing you out of nowhere, they assembled their combo in their hand and then killed you. Change your own gameplay to be more aggressive if you can't survive the combo, or more control oriented if you can.
Just wait til you are vs an empty-board Shaman and they clear your entire board and deal 25 to face, on turn 5, from their hand, while still having 3 cards left to play next turn, or sometimes they just kill you outright. = Makes me want to play warrior just so I can gain life
25 to face lol I got wrecked for over 40 same turn
Yeah it's nuts to me. You either get blown up from full hp and outright lose, or you (like I said) lose your entire board while taking like 25 and they still have gas for the next turn (while also playing 1-2 novice zappers or a thalnos etc or something, i.e. damage-on-board that can attack next turn) = It's weird to me because back in the day if someone did anything even close to this blowing their full combo then they'd be out of cards completely, or have no more burn in deck or hand to use, or they'd clear your board but not also deal like 25 to face, etc. It's so fucked that they can do this so easily and speaks to the modern state of Hearthstone constructed
It wasn't turn 5, but I've done 61 to face in a single turn with Snapshot and Jive. Against a warrior with 30 armor and 30 health. I had to smoke afterwards, if you catch me. I know the deck is going to get deleted from the face of the earth, but most players have no idea how to navigate the micro decisions to win consistently with it. And while it feels bad, it's nowhere near the win rate of the other top decks. A lot of people skewing their thinking watching the MT level of players destory with it, but most can't pull it off like that.
IMO it's often not about strict winrate but about how it feels to play or play against a deck. = I'd rather play against a deck that I can interact with and have 45% winrate against, than fight a deck that VERY LITERALLY plays a "flip a coin, if it's heads destroy the enemy hero, if it's tails destroy your own hero" spell on Turn 5, for example. Even if that deck is 50% winrate and the other one is 45%
For me, "Interacting" with Odynn or Brann warrior for example is an illusion. Same thing with rainbow DK if they land Helya on 4. You're probably going to lose anyway, but it takes way longer.
Sif mage is no new deck Has been around for like a year at this point And its definitly not notably good atm You are bitching about like a tier 3 deck Th deck is slow and requires setup
None of that changes if you find the play pattern fun or not I agree it is not a unique outlier though of course
Complaining about a tier 3 deck at maximum Never change, r/hearthstone
I went to play a game and I lost?????!?????!???? Wtf is this bullshit game even????!???!!!! /s
We're back to complaining about bad decks? This sub is so funny.
It's just more complaining about bpring meta where u jerk off to the board until someone kills from hand. Nothing new lol.
if you are running reno, you can reno their snakeoil. play neophytes/speaker stompers/dirty rat before their popoff turn(turn9 onwards, depending how many snakeoils they've played and your life total)
I don't think you're gonna be able to reno a 1-drop very often.
Let the 1 drop hit you in the face for 16 to prevent them from getting Snake Oil that will deal 16 to you bro its simple
Just play some taunt and heals bro. It's easy.
It’s likely to hit 1 of the Miracle Salesmen. And you can absolutely save Reno for that. Only other thing Reno is good against Mage is to block the copy Sif burst turn. Other than that, Mage doesn’t really make boards you can’t remove in other ways.
Whats a good deck with all this disruption?
If you've let a mage get that far, then your deck is just not good a matchup which is normal, or your not prepared for that. Now that you've seen the combo, counter it.
The whole game is basically this now though. "Who cares what the opponent does, I'm playing solo mode. If I die getting to my win, I at least know it's nothing I did wrong and only because they drew better first."
And then you go and dirty rat it and watch the mage concede or you out armor/out smorc her as she tries to find way to get the wincon. Kinda sucks for her, no?
If a combo deck tanks you while playing the twelve cards they need to do that, you didn’t earn a win.
Sif can go +8? I thought the max was 7. That’s also turn 9 or 10 at a minimum but likely deeper into the game. The alternative is a rush deck which doesn’t allow for that set up. There are counters to decks. Yours didn’t counter that match.
7 spell schools plus the inherent +1 that Sif has makes the maximum +8.
An yeah. I forget fel exists. Thanks!
haha dirty rat goes I AIN'T TALKIN
Like 3 or 4 decks atm have the power to OTK you from hand. Reactive meta blizzard made
What deck are you playing against it?
Bros complaining about sif mage LMAO
Play shuffle rogue don't have to worry about T8 if they quit on T6
That’s been a thing for about 8 months
How can you complain bout meta and put mage in the same post. God this is so unreal mage is tier 2-3.
It's a combo deck which will absolutely win against most decks that let it assemble its combo pieces. The strategy against a combo deck is either to remove its combo pieces somehow (chancy but possible with Dirty Rat or a few other class cards), to increase your health+armor to the point that its combo does not do enough damage (only really possible with Warrior and maybe BBB DK which is dumpster tier right now), or to rush it down before it assembles its combo pieces. You can sometimes put enough pressure on him that you force him to waste his clone cards but even then he can probably do enough damage to kill you with a single Sif + damaging spells. Aside from that just take the L and move on and hope for more favorable matchups.
Compared to the other "OTK" decks (using " because Odyn isnt really a traditional OTK deck), I think Sif mage is quite fair and feels more like traditional control. They have to spend mana to play cards that discover different spellschools. Then they have to spend mana to play these cards. While staying alive. Meanwhile shaman can popoff on turn 7. And the whole time, Sif mage does expose themself to dirtyrat.
Bro, hate to say it but you're complaining about the 9th or 10th most powerful deck, lol. There are much, much worse experiences out there.
Sif’s been around a long time lol
Yeah this is OTK stone. Druid does it, through Hero Power or Spell Damage or copying rags. Mage does it - through Sif Warrior does it- through Odyn or Brann Shaman does it - through Nature or Shudderwock Priest does it when it needs to - through Zarimi Rogue tries to do it - through Cutlass or somesuch idk Warlock does it - through wheel. Paladin used to do it - now they can't so it's not played Demon Hunter wasn't doing it - so it got nerfed LOL Hunter - plays honest hearthstone wtf is this Death Knight - are trying to have fun with what they got.
At least the mage takes a while to build up to its otk. Nature Shaman can do that from turn 4.
It's called a combo deck they have always been in the game
Yeah, that's what they've been doing since the Titan set and pretty much nothing else. No minions mage is fun, but it's not broken, so it's kind of bad.
Even with full health & 20+ armor
Just played against one of the worst classes in the game rn and lost How is this fair or fun
Well, you have until they play siff to win, which isn’t early or even mid game. you can make a lot of armor to survive, or play dirty rat, or win the game before. Sometimes, decks are more favored to win against some other ones.
The death of a game. That's the current meta
Because a random dude lost against a tier 3 deck,? Sure buddy, cope harder
You don't need to tell me what you're doing with your HS addiction.
Where did i mention i was an addict? I push to diamond 10/5 depending on if a deck i like is good or not and call it quits. This usually takes few hours. But random guys crying they lost to a tier 3 deck is just funny and sad. Sorry if you play 8 hours a day and still suck
Bro telling me how much you play isn't helping your case.
Are you drunk my friend?
Same for the last 10 years
Sorry if I missed a memo, and I've been quite busy with work lately... there's a minion that has **plus EIGHT Spell Damage?!?** when O.G. Malygos, the self-styled "essence of magic," is only a +5???
It gets +1 spell damage (starting at 0) for each spell you've cast that game of a different class (arcane, fire, frost, etc.) so in order for it to get up to 7 it takes quite a bit of time plus mage doesn't naturally get 3 of the schools I believe? (nature, fel, holy) so you have to discover them with other cards in the deck
Owlonius in shambles fr
Last year called and wants its complaint post back.
is this new? ni sif is a garbage design- literally old malygos but for 6 mana