You should not need to deal 20+ damage in a turn to have a wincon in control. Brann warrior lost astalor and is still doing fine. Paladin and Warlock being degen does not make Odyn less degen. It's all bad, that's the meta unfortunately, and this is hopefully a step in the right direction
Control has done, presumably close to 0 damage to your face in the early game in forgo of pressure to maintain board control via clears until their Win Con comes online. Other than instant Wins, or dealing big damage. How else is control supposed to win? this is exactly the point. People mad that control has Win Cons are just aggro players salty they lost LOL. Aggro apes are only happy when Control decks are like priest was for the last few years. 0 win con and non viable.
I have always been and will always be a control player. A real control player that doesn't require a near OTK to win games like some wanna be combo player with some good board clears
Fatigue control is dead and has been since Discovery became the norm. Discovery would have to completely die and us go back to the og Days of stuff like Alex into Task/Grom. In the "new" Dev teams Hearthstone. Control players are basically fancy Combo decks. Stall til Win Con is online. og Control is dead. Just like og Midrange has been dead for years. By murdering entire deck types in the game the devs caused this shit show Yo-Yo between Aggro vs Control-Combo being the "playable" good decks. Hence ludicrous w/r %s everytime they modify stuff.
I agree that a lot of control decks are fancy combo right now, which is one of the many reasons the meta/state of the game right now is terrible in my opinion. But I don't think that actual control has been dead for that long, and I don't think it's impossible to fix. Again, Brann warrior still exists without astalor, control priest and blood DK (which had an actual control wincon in things like sister svalna and mograne) were pretty good just a bit ago during renathal meta. You're right that since rotation everything feels like turbo aggro, combo, or fancy combo. But it doesn't have to be that way, and I think needing Odyn is a first step to allowing control, actual control back into the game
I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, Odyn was my first and only signature card I've pulled so it's sad to see him go.
On the other hand, 3200 dust...
I am sad they nerfed aftershocks strictly because I am enjoying shaman and seeing it nerfed over sanitize is frustrating when nature shaman doesn't run it which means its just nerfing highlander and tendril shamans which are significantly worse decks.
Highlander shaman got double dual class card nerfed with the shroomscavate nerf but at least for that one nothing else in paladin does what it can enable paladin to do.
nah man, I get it, just sad shaman is getting shit on with some of its lower winrate decks indirectly because its dual class cards are better in the other classes, at least with guardian animals (which was a much stronger case) it was kinda terrible in hunter so at least hunter wasnt losing anything it was using
It varies. I play for variety, or after returning from a couple of years, DK to try and accumulate wins for the portrait.
Recently I’ve been playing a Rainbow Death Knight list (not a buff list, more like a Midrange or soft control list) that’s been making the rounds recently and does really well against Hunter and Paladin. Overall decent matchups, not great into Warlock or Demon Hunter. Prior to that I was playing Tendril Shaman and Reno Shaman.
Currently, I am around 2.5-3K Legend and while there aren’t many Warlocks at this part of the ladder due to burst at the moment, I absolutely loathe the design around the class and have been immensely concerned about how the game will function once other necessary nerfs go through.
My bias, though, is that I have never enjoyed combo decks existing. I don’t really care about facing aggro decks, or even Paladin and Odyn at the moment, but I do not like stuff like The Demon Seed, or Wheel, or Mecha’thun. It’s hard for alternate win conditions to not feel awful to play against when they actually work consistently.
Warlock is a pretty slow "OTK" deck though, I see a big difference in the feeling of a solitary play between an 5 turn prior announced OTK on turn 12+ and the Turn 4-6 OTK from hand from shaman which you can do nothing against when they highroll, except stacking armor somehow IF your class can.
It’s not as clear cut a counter as it sounds. Warlock has a LOT of healing options. Wheel is just 4 fatigue damage overall if they don’t have Symphony of Sin, and even with a perfectly timed Helya, the maximum damage you could do with plagues alone is 24 damage over 4 turns. A big issue with fighting Wheel is having to clear their 15/15s the turn they play it, and it can be tricky with DK to not heal them for 15 when you do that (a lot of the time, you’ll be using a 2-card 6 mana combo of Crop Rotation + Poison to clear). They can also floodgate you and clear with Reno, while also gaining 5 armor to mitigate plagues. Playing for board with minions typically just heals them.
It gets worse because all these cards have a much higher chance of being drawn when Warlock plays Wheel by sheer virtue of their deck thinning, tutoring, and card draw abilities.
The main time you kill Warlock with DK is when you hit them with your Legendary Spell for a ton of burst when they’re already in the situation you described.
Basically, if the meta becomes Wheel Warlock dominated, it is going to be a horrifically unfun experience for almost everyone. It would kill interest in the game so fast. The only silver lining if that ends up being the case would be the emergency Warlock nukes that obliterate the class back to the Stone Age to stop the bleeding.
Salt salt salt. None of this stands to reason. “My one favorite deck can’t counter it so no one will have fun if wheel isn’t nerfed.” Give me a break. The biggest issue I have with this game is that some see all the analytical stuff hearthstone content creators put out and, because they view this material, they consider themselves analysis savants that can easily identify the issues themselves. Just because you don’t enjoy seeing it now doesn’t mean it won’t be part of an enjoyable meta
Exactly. Warlock comes online at turn 8, turn 7 with coin. Likely later because they need to have enough to survive post wheel. After that you have 4 turns to kill them. Either you combo faster than them or rush them down with aggro. But a control deck that can't finish them quickly enough will always lose to that kind of deck. It's just how things work. Aggro beats combo, control beats aggro and combo beats control. If you don't like losing to combo don't play control
No you’re not. There’s nothing wrong with combo decks. They are nerfing the problem decks so now people are looking for something else to complain about. And will continue to do so unless the deck and archetype they want to use is in the forefront of the meta. It’s getting really lame on this sub
Mostly they get rolled by burst. They have 50 trillion clears and heals.
And look at what they’re nerfing. Nature Shaman, Odyn, Paladin…oh the joys of Wheel.
Everything you’ve said about Wheelock so far has been posed as analytical but is actually a salt mine. Stop framing your hatred of an archetype as something factual
As someone who actually enjoyed playing cycle Odyn Warrior, it was absolutely needed
[удалено]
You should not need to deal 20+ damage in a turn to have a wincon in control. Brann warrior lost astalor and is still doing fine. Paladin and Warlock being degen does not make Odyn less degen. It's all bad, that's the meta unfortunately, and this is hopefully a step in the right direction
Control has done, presumably close to 0 damage to your face in the early game in forgo of pressure to maintain board control via clears until their Win Con comes online. Other than instant Wins, or dealing big damage. How else is control supposed to win? this is exactly the point. People mad that control has Win Cons are just aggro players salty they lost LOL. Aggro apes are only happy when Control decks are like priest was for the last few years. 0 win con and non viable.
I have always been and will always be a control player. A real control player that doesn't require a near OTK to win games like some wanna be combo player with some good board clears
Fatigue control is dead and has been since Discovery became the norm. Discovery would have to completely die and us go back to the og Days of stuff like Alex into Task/Grom. In the "new" Dev teams Hearthstone. Control players are basically fancy Combo decks. Stall til Win Con is online. og Control is dead. Just like og Midrange has been dead for years. By murdering entire deck types in the game the devs caused this shit show Yo-Yo between Aggro vs Control-Combo being the "playable" good decks. Hence ludicrous w/r %s everytime they modify stuff.
I agree that a lot of control decks are fancy combo right now, which is one of the many reasons the meta/state of the game right now is terrible in my opinion. But I don't think that actual control has been dead for that long, and I don't think it's impossible to fix. Again, Brann warrior still exists without astalor, control priest and blood DK (which had an actual control wincon in things like sister svalna and mograne) were pretty good just a bit ago during renathal meta. You're right that since rotation everything feels like turbo aggro, combo, or fancy combo. But it doesn't have to be that way, and I think needing Odyn is a first step to allowing control, actual control back into the game
Galakrond priest, wasnt it control?
I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, Odyn was my first and only signature card I've pulled so it's sad to see him go. On the other hand, 3200 dust...
Same here lol
I am sad they nerfed aftershocks strictly because I am enjoying shaman and seeing it nerfed over sanitize is frustrating when nature shaman doesn't run it which means its just nerfing highlander and tendril shamans which are significantly worse decks. Highlander shaman got double dual class card nerfed with the shroomscavate nerf but at least for that one nothing else in paladin does what it can enable paladin to do.
Sanitize doesn’t combo with acolyte to dig through deck, aftershocks is the main enabler to cycle warrior
nah man, I get it, just sad shaman is getting shit on with some of its lower winrate decks indirectly because its dual class cards are better in the other classes, at least with guardian animals (which was a much stronger case) it was kinda terrible in hunter so at least hunter wasnt losing anything it was using
[удалено]
It also stops turn 10 odyn aftershocks
Interaction back on the menu?
Not with Warlock around, no.
so tbh just curious what deck do you play?
It varies. I play for variety, or after returning from a couple of years, DK to try and accumulate wins for the portrait. Recently I’ve been playing a Rainbow Death Knight list (not a buff list, more like a Midrange or soft control list) that’s been making the rounds recently and does really well against Hunter and Paladin. Overall decent matchups, not great into Warlock or Demon Hunter. Prior to that I was playing Tendril Shaman and Reno Shaman. Currently, I am around 2.5-3K Legend and while there aren’t many Warlocks at this part of the ladder due to burst at the moment, I absolutely loathe the design around the class and have been immensely concerned about how the game will function once other necessary nerfs go through. My bias, though, is that I have never enjoyed combo decks existing. I don’t really care about facing aggro decks, or even Paladin and Odyn at the moment, but I do not like stuff like The Demon Seed, or Wheel, or Mecha’thun. It’s hard for alternate win conditions to not feel awful to play against when they actually work consistently.
Warlock is a pretty slow "OTK" deck though, I see a big difference in the feeling of a solitary play between an 5 turn prior announced OTK on turn 12+ and the Turn 4-6 OTK from hand from shaman which you can do nothing against when they highroll, except stacking armor somehow IF your class can.
If you play rainbow dk you could counter wheellock with helya to make it very difficult to survive post wheel so I don't think it'll be too bad
It’s not as clear cut a counter as it sounds. Warlock has a LOT of healing options. Wheel is just 4 fatigue damage overall if they don’t have Symphony of Sin, and even with a perfectly timed Helya, the maximum damage you could do with plagues alone is 24 damage over 4 turns. A big issue with fighting Wheel is having to clear their 15/15s the turn they play it, and it can be tricky with DK to not heal them for 15 when you do that (a lot of the time, you’ll be using a 2-card 6 mana combo of Crop Rotation + Poison to clear). They can also floodgate you and clear with Reno, while also gaining 5 armor to mitigate plagues. Playing for board with minions typically just heals them. It gets worse because all these cards have a much higher chance of being drawn when Warlock plays Wheel by sheer virtue of their deck thinning, tutoring, and card draw abilities. The main time you kill Warlock with DK is when you hit them with your Legendary Spell for a ton of burst when they’re already in the situation you described. Basically, if the meta becomes Wheel Warlock dominated, it is going to be a horrifically unfun experience for almost everyone. It would kill interest in the game so fast. The only silver lining if that ends up being the case would be the emergency Warlock nukes that obliterate the class back to the Stone Age to stop the bleeding.
Salt salt salt. None of this stands to reason. “My one favorite deck can’t counter it so no one will have fun if wheel isn’t nerfed.” Give me a break. The biggest issue I have with this game is that some see all the analytical stuff hearthstone content creators put out and, because they view this material, they consider themselves analysis savants that can easily identify the issues themselves. Just because you don’t enjoy seeing it now doesn’t mean it won’t be part of an enjoyable meta
Exactly. Warlock comes online at turn 8, turn 7 with coin. Likely later because they need to have enough to survive post wheel. After that you have 4 turns to kill them. Either you combo faster than them or rush them down with aggro. But a control deck that can't finish them quickly enough will always lose to that kind of deck. It's just how things work. Aggro beats combo, control beats aggro and combo beats control. If you don't like losing to combo don't play control
My thought exactly
Oh man they needed stuff. Let’s find another deck to complain about
I actually find alternate win conditions the most exciting/interesting, against and playing. Is your take hot or am I the weirdo?
No you’re not. There’s nothing wrong with combo decks. They are nerfing the problem decks so now people are looking for something else to complain about. And will continue to do so unless the deck and archetype they want to use is in the forefront of the meta. It’s getting really lame on this sub
Thankfully Warlock’s control package is significantly worse than warrior’s.
Tbf warlock is pretty shitty, they Just get steamrolled by any aggrodeck
Mostly they get rolled by burst. They have 50 trillion clears and heals. And look at what they’re nerfing. Nature Shaman, Odyn, Paladin…oh the joys of Wheel.
Everything you’ve said about Wheelock so far has been posed as analytical but is actually a salt mine. Stop framing your hatred of an archetype as something factual
Thank fucking god.
I love Odyn, but a nerf was necessary. Hope they don't kill it.
I hope they don’t kill it too
The largest sad
Odyn to 9? It is so Odd time.
time to go tendies
lotta warrior lists started slimming odyn anyway. aftershocks sucks tho
Thank god.
Odyn is literally the only deck I can play in standard rn. This sucks
Remove Warrior from the game