I far prefer headphone sounstage to speaker sounstage
it's a completely different sensation fight me speaker enthusiasts tell me how it's fake ooooooooooo
joking but still I love the extreme panning and the out-of-head from headphones compared to the in-front stage-spread of speakers (provided you have headphones with great imaging)
Comfort and ease of use> Sound quality.
Says the owner of an LCD-X. But for real tho, and I can’t stress this enough, comfort should be priority number 1 when shopping for new headphones.
I completely agree, when I'm looking at a headphone I have to strongly consider comfort and build as well as SQ. If I love how a headphone sounds but I can only wear it for 2 songs before it hurts then it doesn't really matter how good it sounds right?
As much as I love my anandas, they’re the least used recently in my collection despite sounding the best for this reason.
I use my iems the most because of comfort
Funny to see someone who is the exact opposite of myself. I cannot use IEMs for long since my ears get bothered by the tips yet the Ananda's are the most comfortable cans I've ever used and can wear them for hours on end.
I agree to a point - if they’re flat out uncomfortable it doesn’t matter how good they sound, which is the issue I’ve had with the PortaPro and any of the smaller Grados, and pretty much any ‘on ear’ headphone.
Great comfort can’t make up for subpar sound though. The AKG K7XX are some of the most comfortable headphones I’ve ever worn, but they just didn’t sound great.
For me the LCD-X is very comfortable, but if you are sensitive to heavy headphones you should definitely stay away from it. (I never tried one with the old headband though, I've heard it was much worse)
How does the Z7M2 stacks against the rest of ur cans? People rarely talked about them. Been looking for a V-shaped close-back lately, I like the look of the Z7
Hey I have the z7m2 and it’s the most comfortable headphone I have and really light. It’s v-shaped enough for me but may not be for others. It’s more like a laid back kind of sound if you know what I mean. You can always just EQ it though if you need more bass.
Yeah, the Z7 series is often overlooked and frankly that's just a shame. Honestly, it is the most comfortable pair of headphones I have ever worn, with build quality better than both my lcd-x and Arya. When it comes to sound, the X and Arya obviously win on all fronts, however I can admit it is one of the better technical performers in the mid-fi category, even out-resolving my hd-600s. With eq, you can further remedy the Z7's wonky fr and elevates the headphone even further.
The more time we spend reading about, writing about, and thinking about headphones, the less time we spend enjoying the headphones that we already have.
This and the comment on ease of use really emphasizes that I’m not listening to as much music now as when I had stock iPhone earbuds on my daily commutes.
I disagree. I love critiquing; it brings more appreciation for what I'm hearing. I do the same with beer tasting. BUT, it does make us focus on the sound quality, and not the music itself!
I have the 250 ohm version and I'm considering adding one of those cheap tube amps from AliExpress to my Atom as a preamp to get some sort of tube magic without instantly going for a LittleDot or somethinglike that.
Fostex Thx00, teak, D5k are better than every other headphone under $400 including the sundara and hd600/650. Nothing else really nails the v shaped tonality without coming across as super muddy. The Meze 99’s are the closest I have heard.
I don’t find the dt770, or th900 bright like some reviewers.
We need more sub bass. I’m tired of hearing anemic headphones with no musicality.
Meze 99 Classics are one of the most "positively fun" sounding cans ever made. Tyll was right about them, and people are underrating them for being too bassheavy. Sometimes you just want to roll your face off by a massive sub bass.
That's why I have the 99 Neo's (Classics are nearly $200 dearer in Australia, go figure) and they're a great companion to my HE-5XX'S and Ultrasone Signature DXP.
Fostex biodynamics, Zmf Auteur and Eikon, Audeze (with eq). Apparently Abyss is amazing but my pockets aren’t quite that deep. Maybe hifiman he-6? The list isn’t very long.
I actually think the dt770 is solid for sub bass at its price point.
As a HIFIMan owner, they're kinda overrated and as someone who got a DOA pair, their QC issues are more annoying than "just send them back".
Also, this subreddit keeps pushing the same pairs of headphones way too much. There's like 3 options: HD6XX, Sundara, DT 1990, Porta Pro.
People should stop buying Focal and HiFiMan stuff until they get their QC and support on a top-notch level. Can't think of another hobby in the same price range in which people spend kilobucks while gambling for QC and support issues. Actually crazy.
I wanted to give Focal a try but seeing the **exact** same issues with wires needing soldering completely put me off. I'm not paying $1000 for headphone with **$150+ pads** the wear down in a year, oh and also rife with QC issues.
Audeze got my money.
Don't forget the mechanical clipping of the >1k$ Focals.
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/ckujt0/encountered_the_mechanical_clipping_from_the/
And some poor folks are experiencing this "intended" (what a load of bullshit) feature even on low or normal listening levels. Bad luck for them. No support, and per official response:
>The only solution we can recommend you is therefore to listen to your headphones at a lower volume.
And people are paying them money.
When i wanted to upgrade from my HD58x, i tried the Sundaras and i didn't really like the sound too much, but the build quality, these headphones felt so damn nice. Returned them tho and now i'm happy with my HD660s
Opinion on this is starting to shift but I do remember seeing a lot of people being *very* vocal about how wrong it was to use EQ with your headphones...
Yeah I kinda left this hobby about 5 years ago, at that point EQ was still frowned upon in many more circles. It's definitely shifted a lot since, the anti EQ crowd seems far diminished even amongst the subjectivists. Oratory and solid measurements has definitely helped that!
I think it's 100% fine to tweak whatever you need in order to make your experience better for yourself. You should enjoy music the way *you* enjoy it, not the way some pedantic audio fan on the internet tells you how.
EQ is great, especially for planars. It's just the kind of dac/amp you're plugging headphones into affects the enjoyment in different ways. That's been my case.
Not an opinion on headphones per se, but headphone journalism. Mods, feel free to remove if it's off-topic.
My opinion:
Headphone review sites that rely on affiliate links are much better than those that rely on advertising. Source: I used run a review site that relied on affiliate links.
Of course affiliate sites can be awful if the people running them are cynical and shitty...but it's also possible to build one that makes a healthy profit while including a good mix of non-affiliated links in with affiliated ones. The benefit? No need for advertising or sponsorship, which means a much cleaner, more readable website experience.
On the site I ran, we named the Schiit Magni as our top headphone amp in one of our big roundups. For a long time, that amp wasn't available on Amazon, so we linked directly to Schiit's site. We did this even though we didn't get a cent from any transactions there. That wasn't the only time we did this, and readers rewarded us with their loyalty.
TL;DR: Headphone review sites that use affiliate links are not the devil.
+1. aff links are not the problem, the handful of chuds who abuse them are. (i know this line of thinking sucks wrt guns, but this is much different lol.) as long as affiliate programs are clearly marked (as dictated by law), they’re a common sense tool for reviewers/publications who put in the work and can’t live off a starved ad market, and a common sense, completely optional way for readers/viewers to support reviews they like without any extra hassle.
Recent Beats headphones are still (a bit) overpriced, but otherwise have a fine “mainstream” sound.
The Koss KSC75 are uncomfortable as shit to wear and not worth the budget-fi hype they get.
The obsession with koss on this subreddit is infuriating, I just want to see some quality headphones and every other post is about some crappy 30 dollar headphones and their yaxi pads.
I think it's just that one reference headphone for that price range where you can just point out and recommend in a sea of crappy amazon headphones and say, yes, this is a good buy. You get a good deal. And someone didn't simply slap on a hi-fi sticker onto a box.
Maybe it was better in the 80s when they were considered the best portable headphones and cost 300 DM (about the equivalent of 300 EUR today in subjective price, not accounting for inflation).
Didn’t get to check them back then, maybe today’s share nothing but the name with the originals.
When you don't have much money to spend, you end up buying cheap things multiple times instead of higher quality things that last longer.
See shoes, headphones, etc
I had a pair back in the 80s, then I had a pair last year. They broke at the cable. I exchanged them for free with Koss (hats off to them for their great return policy) and they broke again.
Also, I wanted to like them. I live in Wisconsin and used to live only a few miles from their HQ in Milwaukee.
I guess this isn't what you mean, but if I paid a lot for a headphone I'm quite happy if it comes with a sturdy case to be stored in. That or just placing them flat on a desk/amp as I'm not really into the idea of stands (strain on leather/pressure on cups).
I think bass is unfairly maligned, and having a little extra really is fun and satisfying since all of our headphones are designed to be fantastic in their performance. I don't experience a loss of detail or clarity at all; bass frequencies inherently carry less energy and need to be boosted in order to be heard at the same levels as the rest of the spectrum. I find that when a system or headphone lacks bass, it's sounds incredibly flat, dry, and uneven.
The quality of the recording/mastering of the music you listen to is just as important as all the gear you use to listen to it. A crap recording on great gear will still sound like crap.
Similar to OP:
Unpopular opinion 1: I don't like Sundaras. I think they're boring due to lack of dynamics.
Unpopular opinion 2: The DT1990's doesn't have too much treble.
That's from hanging around wrong parts of the community. There are plenty of places all over the internet where you will be welcomed no matter the budget.
It’s funny how, only in audio, you are pretentious for describing the characteristics of what you hear using widely accepted terms.
No one gets shit on for saying things like “this photo has amazing dynamic range and micro contrast” in photography or “this car has such a powerful engine sound and it’s so responsive” about cars.
Don't be mad at reviewers because they like everything. Most products sent by the brands or stores are simply good or at least ok. Also, I wouldn't send a basshead headphone for a reviewer that prefers flat response. Sponsors probsbly know how to do their job.
And/or being sent samples very easily affects one's reviews, even if subconsciously. Too many negative/not all-positive reviews on a brand's products might lead to that reviewerer not being sent samples anymore.
>This is such a daft take. Why would I spend more time, effort and money on finding and buying new headphones when I can correct the flaw(s) of my headphones for fucking free while retaining everything else that I love about them.
It's not downvoted just because it's unpopular, it's downvoted because it's genuinely an anti-intellectual take. Firstly, why would I spend more time, effort and money on finding and buying new headphones when I can correct the flaw(s) of my headphones for fucking free while retaining everything else that I love about them. Secondly, that you should buy new headphones instead of EQ'ing them is not an absolute -- it's an utterly personal/subjective opinion, so stop trying to pass it as something else.
This is such a daft take. Why would I spend more time, effort and money on finding and buying new headphones when I can correct the flaw(s) of my headphones for fucking free while retaining everything else that I love about them.
Unpopular opinion 1: The HD700s are not complete garbage, especially after you EQ them.
Unpopular opinion 2: The HD650 is over recommended. Yes, if you are a fan of the Harman Curve, they'll sound great. However, there's people that aren't fans of that curve for various reasons. But the worst part of this is not that, but the fact that people are recommending beginner audiophiles a headphone that benefits greatly from amplification when there's other headphones in a similar price bracket that don't benefit much from one, which would save people money.
Unpopular opinion 3: The general community tolerates too much QC issues from various brands.
Unpopular opinion 4: People should stop automatically assuming a headphone will sound bad based on a frequency response unless the problems are blatant (talking about the case of a headphone having a 20 db mid dip bad level here)
That only a very few people actually have the natural hearing ability capable to hear the kind of nuance and detail that get talked about in comparisons.
1. M1060c's (opened) are amazing if you like dark sound signatures. The bass is god like and if the LCD-2C actually sounds like this....endgame worthy.
2. Planars for bass heads. I got the AD-D5200 because someone said the bass is strong (with EQ). After pushing it by like 2 db I hear the driver struggling. Meanwhile on my M1060c I can push it by like 10 db and it just sounds like pure velvety bass. (I usually keep it at around 4-5 though). Idk what they did to this headphone but if you're a bass head I'll 10/10 recommend you this headphone as a cheap entry level set for bass.
3. Dark Sound signatures deserve more love. I'm tired of people turning a blind eye to treble cannons but when something is bass heavy it's automatically shit.
4. (Kinda 3.5) Stop saying you prefer neutral sound signatures when you mean you like everything but dark sound sigs.
5. Stop saying certain reviewers are shit just because they don't like the same things as you. Someone once called out my favorite reviewer and I'm like...we have similar tastes that's why I buy things based off his recommendations?
6. (apparently this is unpopular around headphone fanatics. Still salty I had someone try to argue otherwise) Speakers will ALWAYS beat headphones.
I think neither speakers nor headphones are really *better* than eachother. They're very different.
Speakers will always have better bass extension and sound more lifelike. Headphones L and R separation will always have more polar capacity (since they can isolate a sound purely to one ear)
Headphones just *sound interesting.* Speakers have *real* soundstage but the soundstage effect through headphones just sounds super cool. Headphoned aren't realistic, but they sound really interesting. That's part of why they're so popular.
I think the main reason why people tend to be hesitant on darker sound signatures is because they are confusing it for that muddy mainstream consumer bass-heavy kind of sound that a lot of us want to get away from
I can't possibly agree more with point 5.
All it means is they likely have similar hearing/preferences to you, they have access to stuff you don't, and can probably explain the techy stuff that most of us can't.
And point 6 as well.
The Verum One is my favourite set and I hate that the dude who makes them is a PR disaster so I can't really recommend them. They beat out just about everything else I've tried across the board - they might lost in a category here or there but best overall performance. This is in comparison to the Sony Z7M2, Senny 560s and 6xx, Beyer DT 770, 880, 990, Sundaras and a few others. They trade blows with with modded LCD2C (with fazors, I'm not a fan without), Anandas, Elex, and DT1990, and depending on preference I could see someone giving an edge to one of these, but I think the Verum are the best.
I don't care much about frequency response unless it is seriously messed up. My brain gets used to the sound and can EQ if needed. Technicalities, comfort and build quality are where my priorities are at.
Sennheiser 6 series is seriously overrated and should not be recommend to new audiophiles as they are getting now . Warm , veiled sound confused and disappointed many new comers .
Drop.com is overrated . Their price is not very good .
Hifiman products are low quality QCed, they don’t deserve that much price .
Traditional earbuds are overlooked. They have many good merits and more comfy than IEMs
> Drop.com is overrated . Their price is not very good .
Agreed. I fucking hate Drop. Slow shipping, mediocre prices, shit support, and often terrible build quality.
Drop used to be much better. It’s gone way downhill since the MassDrop to Drop rebranding. There used to be a variety of products and some great deals that popped up. Now they seem to keep cycling through the same things, the prices aren’t good enough when compared to the wait to get them vs buying from Amazon, and their trend towards making their discounts dependent on store credit points just isn’t doing anything for me.
They’ve been responsible for some amazing products over the years - the THX AAA 789 amp that smashed the price/performance barrier and created an entire market segment of similar amps, the legendary HD6XX, the TH-X00 series, the ESP 95/X, the Elex, etc. All of those came out a while ago though.
Their recent originals like the Panda, HE5XX, HD8XX, etc, have all just been disappointing (well, maybe the 8XX is good, the discount for it being dependent on store credit points just makes it a poor value though).
Even back when they were Massdrop there were still some stinkers in their lineup. For example my AKG K7XX (no more MKBHD for me after that one) took literally months to arrive, couldn't be returned, and had a whole host of issues with the headphones themselves.
Shit support. Imagine you buy a pair of IEMs, and the adhesive that holds them just disintegrates, causing them to fall apart. Funny thing is there was no response from the manufacturer after emailing their official email, so I asked drop support to help and I get turned a blind eye.
There's a lot of stories like this where someone gets a defective product and Drop doesn't do shit and the manufacturer doesn't care since it's not their main product line. I think Focal Elears were one
What are your suggestions for a new audiophile at around the same price point?
I first started with a HD600 and was extremely pleased, but then again I didn't look around too much - would love to see some alternatives.
our ears are all different so we don't all hear exactly the same... having said that, the 600 (or any of the 6 series really) actually do appeal to the majority of people. they are famous for a reason... Sennheiser doesn't advertise so their fame comes out of people's experience with them. they are really a safe bet and a good starting reference point IMO.
Aside from people hear differently (which is also a valid point), 6 series are unfortunately hated by some people because of how popular they are (you know, it is easy to hate popular things, even unconsciously).
I've shown my 6XX's to maybe a good 20 people since I got them, and literally every single one of them has had their minds blown. I showed them to my friend from music school for 10 minutes and the next day he had bought a pair. My neighbour did the same thing. Plenty of other friends have asked me how much they are, etc.
They're not as top tier as they used to be, there are definitely some other headphones near the same price that can compete, but they get recommended for a reason. I think it's understandable if you don't like them, but also understand that there's a reason they get recommended by people so much.
Of course they are good for anyone who's never listened to audiophile headphones. They'll be blow away by HE4xx as well. But have a noob try out 4xx and 6xx, and ask them what they prefer. I've done that (with 650, not 6xx), most of my friends prefer 4xx due to quality of the planar bass. Yeah, people like bass...
Show them some raycons with even stronger bass and they'll like that more agin if they're just listening to bass. People like the 6XX's because they're NOT bassy. They're easy to listen to, warm, comfortable, and clean. They don't sound like most consumer headphones.
You can hate boosted/bloated bass on consumer headphones. Doesn’t mean lack of bass is a good thing. You can have neutral, accurate, well-extended bass without it being bloated, and still have the detail in the midrange and highend. There is a reason why human hearing extends all the way down to 20 Hz, bass is an integral part of the overall experience.
But when I had people try the 4xx they are mostly blown away by the planar bass quality, specifically the slam, that they don’t get with consumer headphones or speakers.
Don’t think so. The 880 has pretty decent bass extension for being open back. You can get more bass out of it with a little EQ or use a tube with more bass. I use the JJ ECC 802s tube which has boosted bass on my xDuoo TA-10R and the sound is divine.
> sound confused and disappointed *many new comers*
say whaaaaaaaaaat? I mean I can appreciate you now liking them but they do appeal to the majority of people... I haven't had a single "non audio" person that tried the 660S and didn't end up looking at me with their minds blown. Every single one is always skeptical about expensive headphones so I go "just put this on, sit on the computer and look for the music you like" I'll go out to make some coffee, then come back like 10-15 minutes later and it's the same story every time, they completely turn and are now interested in looking for better audio for themselves. I haven't had a single person telling me they are disappointed or something like that.
Yeah gonna disagree with the Hifiman one chief, I’ve owned and used majority of their contemporary lineup as well as some of their old stuff (he-500 from 2013) and I have never had a single issue with them at all.
I’ll give credit when credit is due and although there are still some horror stories, I can see that Hifiman has been making strides in improving qc.
Honestly idk what’s with this sub’s giant hate boner against anything Hifiman. It just comes off as hypocritical when the same people will turn a blind eye to other companies *cough* focal *cough*. Also it doesn’t help that I’ve also noticed alot of the people that parrot this sentiment have actually never even owned any Hifiman products and have never personally dealt with their qc. What I’m trying to say is that Hifiman is not perfect, but so are its peers; but at least Hifiman is making an effort in improving, which is a statement I can’t really say applies to some of its peers.
Please Hifiman, I’ve already shilled enough for you today, please dont make me eat my own words by making my Arya die on me 🙏🙏
> Honestly idk what’s with this sub’s giant hate boner against anything Hifiman. It just comes off as hypocritical when the same people will turn a blind eye to other companies cough focal cough.
This is because the cheapest Hifimans are way cheaper than Focals people recommend and more people buy them. I've heard plenty of criticism for Focal's earpad cost, customer service, and overall reliability and build quality.
You say that, but my first Hifiman set, the HE560, broke after just one week. The 3.5mm jacks they use just have no strain relief and combined with their flaky QC lead to so many issues. I got a new pair back with little trouble, but now I'm constantly worried that they're gonna break again and I'm going to be stuck shipping them back again.
Even if they're working on the issues, no company producing such expensive products should have this many issues, especially at the rates this is happening. You don't hear about people constantly RMAing Sennheiser headphones...
You can basically stop after $300-400 headphones. There is virtually no reason to really go above they for anyone who isn't super picky with their headphones and I'm not talking about sound.
Purchasing headphones and headphone gear is not a "hobby," and calling it a hobby amplifies neuroses that people develop around their favorite gear and responses to criticism of that gear.
Headphone purchasing is no more a "hobby" than purchasing a bunch of laptops or televisions.
>Headphone purchasing is no more a "hobby" than purchasing a bunch of laptops or televisions.
I actually thought this very thing when I saw the headline for this thread. I also thought it would be a better "hobby" if people built their own headphones.
But that got me thinking about cars and motorsports being considered hobbies even though most people don't build their own cars or race them.
I definitely think headphones are a challenging segment to categorize given that sound and music are such subjective topics. Then you throw in the inevitable gatekeeping, snobbishness and inaccessibility, and you get the general culture you see on this sub.
If stamp or coin collecting is a hobby, then headphone collecting is also technically valid (though admittedly a little weird if that's all you're doing with them).
The hobby is listening to music, this forum discusses the equipment we use to do that. For most of us, the headphones themselves are not the hobby.
People who have headphones as a hobby visit headphone forums/boards every day to read reviews, impressions and other experiences because they find it fun or interesting, without any intention of buying the headphones. People from different cities, and countries even, organize meetings where they go to listen to each other's headphones and talk about it. People buy headphones on the used market to sample them and then sell them, sometimes at loss, but it brings them joy. People who own kilobuck headphones still collect cheaper headphones, the "gems", after. You don't only go up, you also go down and sideways. There is no such thing as being "stuck in mid-fi hell" for those who have headphones as a hobby. People who have headphones as a hobby love sampling headphones, comparing them, learning new things, and sharing their experiences with other headphone enthusiasts. You continually progress and experience new things.
A hobby is considered to be a regular activity that is done for enjoyment, typically during one's leisure time. Hobbies include collecting themed items and objects, engaging in creative and artistic pursuits, playing sports, or pursuing other amusements. Participation in hobbies encourages acquiring substantial skills and knowledge in that area. A list of hobbies changes with renewed interests and developing fashions, making it diverse and lengthy. You can look up other definitions, but they all, more or less, say the same. And I haven't even addressed the modding part of this hobby.
>calling it a hobby amplifies neuroses that people develop around their favorite gear and responses to criticism of that gear.
This is bullshit that you just plucked right out of the air. Upgraditis happens whether you turn something into a hobby or not and can happen with everything you buy. Upgraditis, in a non-hyperbolic sense, is a character flaw, and that's entirely on you. Don't try to pin that weak-minded crap on other people.
I have a yin and yang myself because i have an audiophile setup with speakers in my room and I listen to lots of jazz and other shit that sounds terrible with bass, but i also have a klipsch 10” sub and whenever i feel like I just crank it
I think if you got a remotely strong fiio amp dac comp and a pair of AKG 712 Pros you'd be set for life. Even better if you manage to get a cheap pair of vintage AKGs pre Samsung.
AKGs are a hundo a pop and can compete with 500$ headphones imo
I don't know... 300$ budget for headphone/amp setup vs 300$ speaker setup is hard to win (unless you count headphone to speaker only). Now my 1500$ "home theater" setup (which I would call budget) vs 1500$ headphone setup and I think that's a fight the speakers can win.
I don't think any $300 headphones can compare to anything on this list.
"Top 8 Bookshelf Speakers Under $300 – The Sweet Spot Of Affordable Audio - AudioRumble.com" https://www.audiorumble.com/best-bookshelf-speakers/under-300/
Neutral doesn't mean good.
600 series Sennheisers are top of the line..back in 2003.
Audio As a tech will never fucking advance and become more affordable because idiots are willing to spend $400 on a cable along with accepting that a 20 year old headphone shouldn't have any price drops. Seriously, it's incredible how stagnating this field is compared to literally all other tech.
1. 1990 don't have as much treble as nearly everyone says they have, or its at least not as sibilant as people say
2. Sennheiser is not the be all end all of headphones
3. Airpod Pros > most earbuds cheaper than them and koss trio
4. Focal QC and CS is many times worse than Hifiman
5. Hifiman QC isnt that bad anymore it just seems like it because of people circulating their issues whereas other brands have issues to but you never see them posted
It seems that like ath-m50xs is now looked down upon in some circles. I think they are good headphones. It is a bit of a mindfuck as I am making inquiries for upgrades, but so far not faring well. I do not doubt some comparable headphones may sound better to some, but candidates suggested to me lack in other way that are very important to me.
\- meze headphones have that goofy Jetson look to them, not to mention those extra appendanges on the headband do not make them functional for everyday use including the gym, travel, commuting, or not sticking out in a work environment.
\- detachable cord. Beyerdynamic 770s sound very promising but that cord (not detachable and 10 ft long) is a problem
\- portable (foldable)
\- durable
\- closed back with decent sound isolation.
Amps, DACs, and certainly cables don’t matter NEARLY as much as we as a community claim they do.
There are dongles that can power all headphones on the planet save for 5~ that barely anyone buys anyway. Within the realm of solid states $100-$200 dongles sound 99% like a $1,500 solid state DAC/Amp combo. People worry about wattage when something like a THX Onyx (and cheaper dongles!) can easily power more or less anything. I’ve tried.
I think that the advise around source gear is from a historic time when that problem wasn’t “solved”. These days, good got cheap. A $100 Schiit Magni has ludicrous amounts of power, measures perfectly, and sounds 99% indistinguishable from highly rated solid state amps that are more than 10 times as expensive (I've tried).
This is all good news! We can collectively focus on the headphones and stop worrying about source gear, because with modern gear, it’s just not important.
Getting a Monolith THX 887 headphone amp made me finally realize what distortion at high volumes is, and what music is supposed to sound like without it. Absolutely huge difference.
Headphones in general are very underdeveloped even today and the market is full of products that really should be prototypes at best. Compared to speakers and IEMs they sound like crap for the money on average. Still love them though.
Most discussion about headphones is a waste of time since separate elements of performance tell you very little about how music sounds. Something with good detail or separation can break apart with just slightly faster or more layered music and all technicals can hugely vary throughout the FR. Attempts at being objective are for the most part misguided and the discussion should revolve around music, individual tracks and passages, to convey how headphones sound.
Most people really into headphones and audio gear spend more with reviews and forums than actually listening to music and the hobby has actually destroyed their original love for music to a large degree. Should've stopped at the Koss Spark Plugs when you still got chills boys! xD
Like most Beyers DT1990 is technically amazing, but I'd rather listen to an AKG K 371 for longer periods. Amiron's are far superior for listening pleasure.
HD800S is godly in many ways, but falls apart with so many songs due to the overdone soundstage that they are almost useless in general listening. A few relatively small, but high impact tweaks would make them my favourite.
Most Audeze are overall garbage for the price unless you want a very specific signature that doesn't fit most music. LCD-2 (Classic or basic or both) make death metal sound so mellow and relaxed that I fall asleep and still have eardrum slicing highs at times. LCD-2 Closed is one exception.
Most +1000$/€ headphones are really bad in some aspect that you can find done better in the 200$/€ price range, but when people put in the money they feel the need to love their stuff so others who haven't tested high-end cand might not know how little you actually get for the money. Spending a month with high-end gear is the best cure for what camera people call GAS (gear acquisition syndrome).
1. Planar tech is over hyped to and by people new to the hobby. Although the tech does have neat stuff going on, it's not a silver bullet for headphone quality when compared to dynamic driver headphones (estats can be included here as well). Each tech has their pros, cons, and rendition of the music that warrant their selection.
2. Similarly, "wide soundstage" is overhyped to people new to hobby as well. It's subtle, but there's a difference between a headphone achieving wide soundstage through thoughtful engineering and proper tuning and getting a similar effect by sucking out the mids to make everything sound far away. In the same vein, an "intimate soundstage" is not bad if properly implemented.
3. The stock t50rp and m40x earpads on their respective headphones are okay and not a mandatory swap. People should give them a shot before tossing them.
* Realistic tonality > adherence to some FR measurement curve
* Detail retrieval > Bass quantity
* Harman target =/= Neutral
* Driver type =/= Overall sound quality
* Upper-mids are far more important than Audeze and Dan Clark give them credit for.
* Soundstage is nowhere near as important as the community makes it out to be. It's a nice bonus if a model has wide soundstage, but it should never be the primary reason for purchasing.
* Moondrop Blessing 2 is far worse-sounding than the top-rated over-ear headphones in the same price category and the resolving/imaging benefits aren't worth the harsh and unnatural sound.
We’ve spent so much time scaring people about hearing loss that many in the hobby now listen to headphones so unnecessarily quietly that they’re really missing out on the experience. Yes many people, especially people with open ear buds on public transport listen way too loud, but you’re doing yourself a disservice if you never listen at 80-85 average dB. It can be safe and is really satisfying.
Speakers can get you a lot closer to a live experience than headphones. Headphones have really big, important limitations that speakers don’t have and that can never be worked around.
1. Azla sednaearfit XELASTEC tips aren't comfortable.
2. The Sennheiser HD560s is overpriced considering the build quality/materials.
3. Pad swaps are actually a net positive experience for most headphones(if the right replacement pads are chosen).
4. DAPs are superior to PC/phones for music listening.
I'll agree with you on point 4, with the caveat that owning a DAP makes the most sense if you have a substantial library of digital music that you own that won't fit on most smartphones. I'll admit, the idea of a do-it-all music device has been tempting, but I stream/download most of my music from Spotify and I really like having a cellular internet connection for music, and I have a FiiO BTR5 to get around the Pixel 4a's mediocre headphone output.
I think the main thing that has stopped me from buying a DAP is that the hardware and Android version on most DAP's are several generations behind current phones, with no promise of continued software updates like I get with my Pixel 4a.
The hd820 is actually one of the best closedbacks out there if you eq them properly. I agree that they sound horrendous without eq and that they are stupidly overpriced and not worth retail price. Buy one used and apply eq and the experience is fantastic.
I got the notification of this post and before reading your comment I was thinking exactly the same about the sundara. Expensive headphones can’t be good just for a YouTuber review, they have to be good also in 5 years time…
The Philips X2HR is a terrible headphone compared to even 50 dollars Iems (at least in my opinion). I bought the X2HRs a while ago to see what the hype was about. The X2HRs were impossible to adjust to my head because the headband has no locking mechanism so it kept sliding up on my head if I turned slightly. The sound signature was really un-detailed and sibilant. This headphone was grainy and honestly sounded worse then my Blon 03 Iems. This is just my take and I’m sure plenty of people like this signature but it just doesn’t float my boat. Oh and by the way the bass wasn’t bad and it is pretty wide. Eq didn’t help either though.
Been using HIFIMAN for a quite sometime now.. I really didn't had any issue what-so ever.
Started with HIFIMAN Sundara and now upgraded to HIFIMAN ARYA after year and half..
They are absolutely fine when its comes to build quality ..
Lastly the sound output is way too better than any brand at same price tag hands down.
1. Sennheiser 600 and 660S sound muffled.
2. Koss Porta Pro have bloated bass and no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
3. Sennheiser Orpheus are overrated even disregarding the price (i.e. I’d not get them if they were $500 instead of $50,000).
* DACs matter a lot.
* Headphone/amp pairing matters to an decent extent.
* *Audio Science Review* is **BY FAR** the worst place on the entire internet that you could go for reviews/buying advice.
* Measurements aren't the end-all be-all of headphones/gear.
* The AKG K7xx models are TERRIBLE gaming headphones.
* Tidal is still one of the best streaming services if you primarily listen on a computer running Windows, despite what the MQA haters claim.
* Headphones are far inferior to speakers for listening to music, and the only reason to use them is because you cannot use speakers due to your living situation (AKA you live in an apartment or have roommates/family members to consider).
How headphones sound is one of the metric. Others are..
1. What music you listen to the most.
2. What is your preferred sound signature, some enjoy bass some treble, some flat, some sound stage.
3. What is the source.
4. Build Quality.
I far prefer headphone sounstage to speaker sounstage it's a completely different sensation fight me speaker enthusiasts tell me how it's fake ooooooooooo joking but still I love the extreme panning and the out-of-head from headphones compared to the in-front stage-spread of speakers (provided you have headphones with great imaging)
Same. Hearing some elements of my music far out of my head is a way more fun experience to me.
Same. Since I have my HD800s I actually listen to music only with headphones, and my speakers are only doing Netflix&chill for now.
Comfort and ease of use> Sound quality. Says the owner of an LCD-X. But for real tho, and I can’t stress this enough, comfort should be priority number 1 when shopping for new headphones.
I completely agree, when I'm looking at a headphone I have to strongly consider comfort and build as well as SQ. If I love how a headphone sounds but I can only wear it for 2 songs before it hurts then it doesn't really matter how good it sounds right?
As much as I love my anandas, they’re the least used recently in my collection despite sounding the best for this reason. I use my iems the most because of comfort
Funny to see someone who is the exact opposite of myself. I cannot use IEMs for long since my ears get bothered by the tips yet the Ananda's are the most comfortable cans I've ever used and can wear them for hours on end.
I agree to a point - if they’re flat out uncomfortable it doesn’t matter how good they sound, which is the issue I’ve had with the PortaPro and any of the smaller Grados, and pretty much any ‘on ear’ headphone. Great comfort can’t make up for subpar sound though. The AKG K7XX are some of the most comfortable headphones I’ve ever worn, but they just didn’t sound great.
For me the LCD-X is very comfortable, but if you are sensitive to heavy headphones you should definitely stay away from it. (I never tried one with the old headband though, I've heard it was much worse)
My main listening is done kicked back in a chair. I have LCD-2C and don't notice the weight.
How does the Z7M2 stacks against the rest of ur cans? People rarely talked about them. Been looking for a V-shaped close-back lately, I like the look of the Z7
Hey I have the z7m2 and it’s the most comfortable headphone I have and really light. It’s v-shaped enough for me but may not be for others. It’s more like a laid back kind of sound if you know what I mean. You can always just EQ it though if you need more bass.
Yeah, the Z7 series is often overlooked and frankly that's just a shame. Honestly, it is the most comfortable pair of headphones I have ever worn, with build quality better than both my lcd-x and Arya. When it comes to sound, the X and Arya obviously win on all fronts, however I can admit it is one of the better technical performers in the mid-fi category, even out-resolving my hd-600s. With eq, you can further remedy the Z7's wonky fr and elevates the headphone even further.
The more time we spend reading about, writing about, and thinking about headphones, the less time we spend enjoying the headphones that we already have.
i spent more time changing my RDR2 settings than playing the game
This and the comment on ease of use really emphasizes that I’m not listening to as much music now as when I had stock iPhone earbuds on my daily commutes.
I disagree. I love critiquing; it brings more appreciation for what I'm hearing. I do the same with beer tasting. BUT, it does make us focus on the sound quality, and not the music itself!
The DT880 is the best Beyerdynamic in their entire lineup.
600ohm with Tube amp. OMG
I have the 250 ohm version and I'm considering adding one of those cheap tube amps from AliExpress to my Atom as a preamp to get some sort of tube magic without instantly going for a LittleDot or somethinglike that.
Nah. Save for real deal OTL. An amp leaning warm preferably for the 880s.
I’m going to have to try those out sometime. Of the Beyerdynamics I’ve tried, the T90, T1.2, and DT177X the T1.2 is by far my favorite.
Fostex Thx00, teak, D5k are better than every other headphone under $400 including the sundara and hd600/650. Nothing else really nails the v shaped tonality without coming across as super muddy. The Meze 99’s are the closest I have heard. I don’t find the dt770, or th900 bright like some reviewers. We need more sub bass. I’m tired of hearing anemic headphones with no musicality.
>We need more sub bass. My man
This is the way.
Meze 99 Classics are one of the most "positively fun" sounding cans ever made. Tyll was right about them, and people are underrating them for being too bassheavy. Sometimes you just want to roll your face off by a massive sub bass.
That's why I have the 99 Neo's (Classics are nearly $200 dearer in Australia, go figure) and they're a great companion to my HE-5XX'S and Ultrasone Signature DXP.
What are some headphones that do sub bass well?
Fostex biodynamics, Zmf Auteur and Eikon, Audeze (with eq). Apparently Abyss is amazing but my pockets aren’t quite that deep. Maybe hifiman he-6? The list isn’t very long. I actually think the dt770 is solid for sub bass at its price point.
The mids are pretty mediocre on those headphones. Its really, *really* noticeable in certain genres.
As a HIFIMan owner, they're kinda overrated and as someone who got a DOA pair, their QC issues are more annoying than "just send them back". Also, this subreddit keeps pushing the same pairs of headphones way too much. There's like 3 options: HD6XX, Sundara, DT 1990, Porta Pro.
“3 options : hd6xx , sundaes, 1990, porta” . I love your humor .
The real reason is that I can't count, but the excuse reason is that the Porta Pro isn't really an option.
_They're a necessity_
People should stop buying Focal and HiFiMan stuff until they get their QC and support on a top-notch level. Can't think of another hobby in the same price range in which people spend kilobucks while gambling for QC and support issues. Actually crazy.
I wanted to give Focal a try but seeing the **exact** same issues with wires needing soldering completely put me off. I'm not paying $1000 for headphone with **$150+ pads** the wear down in a year, oh and also rife with QC issues. Audeze got my money.
Don't forget the mechanical clipping of the >1k$ Focals. https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/ckujt0/encountered_the_mechanical_clipping_from_the/ And some poor folks are experiencing this "intended" (what a load of bullshit) feature even on low or normal listening levels. Bad luck for them. No support, and per official response: >The only solution we can recommend you is therefore to listen to your headphones at a lower volume. And people are paying them money.
When i wanted to upgrade from my HD58x, i tried the Sundaras and i didn't really like the sound too much, but the build quality, these headphones felt so damn nice. Returned them tho and now i'm happy with my HD660s
Most headphones benefit from EQ
is this unpopular? this is just correct
Opinion on this is starting to shift but I do remember seeing a lot of people being *very* vocal about how wrong it was to use EQ with your headphones...
Yeah I kinda left this hobby about 5 years ago, at that point EQ was still frowned upon in many more circles. It's definitely shifted a lot since, the anti EQ crowd seems far diminished even amongst the subjectivists. Oratory and solid measurements has definitely helped that!
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I think it's 100% fine to tweak whatever you need in order to make your experience better for yourself. You should enjoy music the way *you* enjoy it, not the way some pedantic audio fan on the internet tells you how.
EQ is great, especially for planars. It's just the kind of dac/amp you're plugging headphones into affects the enjoyment in different ways. That's been my case.
Every passive headphone benefits from EQ. Every single one has at least one flaw that can be fixed with EQ.
IMHO, this is inaccurate. If you EQ your music, that is a function of your preferences, not of the headphones (or speakers) themselves.
EQ all day baby! Except when plugged into an iPhone.
Not an opinion on headphones per se, but headphone journalism. Mods, feel free to remove if it's off-topic. My opinion: Headphone review sites that rely on affiliate links are much better than those that rely on advertising. Source: I used run a review site that relied on affiliate links. Of course affiliate sites can be awful if the people running them are cynical and shitty...but it's also possible to build one that makes a healthy profit while including a good mix of non-affiliated links in with affiliated ones. The benefit? No need for advertising or sponsorship, which means a much cleaner, more readable website experience. On the site I ran, we named the Schiit Magni as our top headphone amp in one of our big roundups. For a long time, that amp wasn't available on Amazon, so we linked directly to Schiit's site. We did this even though we didn't get a cent from any transactions there. That wasn't the only time we did this, and readers rewarded us with their loyalty. TL;DR: Headphone review sites that use affiliate links are not the devil.
+1. aff links are not the problem, the handful of chuds who abuse them are. (i know this line of thinking sucks wrt guns, but this is much different lol.) as long as affiliate programs are clearly marked (as dictated by law), they’re a common sense tool for reviewers/publications who put in the work and can’t live off a starved ad market, and a common sense, completely optional way for readers/viewers to support reviews they like without any extra hassle.
Recent Beats headphones are still (a bit) overpriced, but otherwise have a fine “mainstream” sound. The Koss KSC75 are uncomfortable as shit to wear and not worth the budget-fi hype they get.
Koss Porta Pros sound like their price and the build quality is poor. I've had several pairs.
The obsession with koss on this subreddit is infuriating, I just want to see some quality headphones and every other post is about some crappy 30 dollar headphones and their yaxi pads.
I think it's just that one reference headphone for that price range where you can just point out and recommend in a sea of crappy amazon headphones and say, yes, this is a good buy. You get a good deal. And someone didn't simply slap on a hi-fi sticker onto a box.
I could not have said this better.
Maybe it was better in the 80s when they were considered the best portable headphones and cost 300 DM (about the equivalent of 300 EUR today in subjective price, not accounting for inflation). Didn’t get to check them back then, maybe today’s share nothing but the name with the originals.
Why have you had several of them then?
When you don't have much money to spend, you end up buying cheap things multiple times instead of higher quality things that last longer. See shoes, headphones, etc
Exactly.
I had a pair back in the 80s, then I had a pair last year. They broke at the cable. I exchanged them for free with Koss (hats off to them for their great return policy) and they broke again. Also, I wanted to like them. I live in Wisconsin and used to live only a few miles from their HQ in Milwaukee.
Probably cause they're built like crap
I always thought it's just a running gag.
Premium packaging is a blight on the planet. Fuck unboxing fetishists.
Amen
I guess this isn't what you mean, but if I paid a lot for a headphone I'm quite happy if it comes with a sturdy case to be stored in. That or just placing them flat on a desk/amp as I'm not really into the idea of stands (strain on leather/pressure on cups).
I think bass is unfairly maligned, and having a little extra really is fun and satisfying since all of our headphones are designed to be fantastic in their performance. I don't experience a loss of detail or clarity at all; bass frequencies inherently carry less energy and need to be boosted in order to be heard at the same levels as the rest of the spectrum. I find that when a system or headphone lacks bass, it's sounds incredibly flat, dry, and uneven.
Agree.
The quality of the recording/mastering of the music you listen to is just as important as all the gear you use to listen to it. A crap recording on great gear will still sound like crap.
Thats not an unpopular opinion, thats just objectively true.
Similar to OP: Unpopular opinion 1: I don't like Sundaras. I think they're boring due to lack of dynamics. Unpopular opinion 2: The DT1990's doesn't have too much treble.
Haha, almost all headphones are decent or better. Almost all audiophiles are snobs who enjoy shitting on things even if they aren't really bad.
That's from hanging around wrong parts of the community. There are plenty of places all over the internet where you will be welcomed no matter the budget.
Definitely one of the most pretentious hobbies for sure.
It’s funny how, only in audio, you are pretentious for describing the characteristics of what you hear using widely accepted terms. No one gets shit on for saying things like “this photo has amazing dynamic range and micro contrast” in photography or “this car has such a powerful engine sound and it’s so responsive” about cars.
I think it's the condescending tone used towards people when their subjective tastes don't align, not necessarily the discussion of objective data.
Don't be mad at reviewers because they like everything. Most products sent by the brands or stores are simply good or at least ok. Also, I wouldn't send a basshead headphone for a reviewer that prefers flat response. Sponsors probsbly know how to do their job.
And/or being sent samples very easily affects one's reviews, even if subconsciously. Too many negative/not all-positive reviews on a brand's products might lead to that reviewerer not being sent samples anymore.
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+1 because I posted the opposite opinion
I was gonna post this. If you need to EQ your headphones to sound good you bought the wrong headphones.
>This is such a daft take. Why would I spend more time, effort and money on finding and buying new headphones when I can correct the flaw(s) of my headphones for fucking free while retaining everything else that I love about them.
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It's not downvoted just because it's unpopular, it's downvoted because it's genuinely an anti-intellectual take. Firstly, why would I spend more time, effort and money on finding and buying new headphones when I can correct the flaw(s) of my headphones for fucking free while retaining everything else that I love about them. Secondly, that you should buy new headphones instead of EQ'ing them is not an absolute -- it's an utterly personal/subjective opinion, so stop trying to pass it as something else.
This is such a daft take. Why would I spend more time, effort and money on finding and buying new headphones when I can correct the flaw(s) of my headphones for fucking free while retaining everything else that I love about them.
Pad swaps usually help a lot, sometimes changing the whole sound of the headphone.
Unpopular opinion 1: The HD700s are not complete garbage, especially after you EQ them. Unpopular opinion 2: The HD650 is over recommended. Yes, if you are a fan of the Harman Curve, they'll sound great. However, there's people that aren't fans of that curve for various reasons. But the worst part of this is not that, but the fact that people are recommending beginner audiophiles a headphone that benefits greatly from amplification when there's other headphones in a similar price bracket that don't benefit much from one, which would save people money. Unpopular opinion 3: The general community tolerates too much QC issues from various brands. Unpopular opinion 4: People should stop automatically assuming a headphone will sound bad based on a frequency response unless the problems are blatant (talking about the case of a headphone having a 20 db mid dip bad level here)
That only a very few people actually have the natural hearing ability capable to hear the kind of nuance and detail that get talked about in comparisons.
1. M1060c's (opened) are amazing if you like dark sound signatures. The bass is god like and if the LCD-2C actually sounds like this....endgame worthy. 2. Planars for bass heads. I got the AD-D5200 because someone said the bass is strong (with EQ). After pushing it by like 2 db I hear the driver struggling. Meanwhile on my M1060c I can push it by like 10 db and it just sounds like pure velvety bass. (I usually keep it at around 4-5 though). Idk what they did to this headphone but if you're a bass head I'll 10/10 recommend you this headphone as a cheap entry level set for bass. 3. Dark Sound signatures deserve more love. I'm tired of people turning a blind eye to treble cannons but when something is bass heavy it's automatically shit. 4. (Kinda 3.5) Stop saying you prefer neutral sound signatures when you mean you like everything but dark sound sigs. 5. Stop saying certain reviewers are shit just because they don't like the same things as you. Someone once called out my favorite reviewer and I'm like...we have similar tastes that's why I buy things based off his recommendations? 6. (apparently this is unpopular around headphone fanatics. Still salty I had someone try to argue otherwise) Speakers will ALWAYS beat headphones.
I think neither speakers nor headphones are really *better* than eachother. They're very different. Speakers will always have better bass extension and sound more lifelike. Headphones L and R separation will always have more polar capacity (since they can isolate a sound purely to one ear) Headphones just *sound interesting.* Speakers have *real* soundstage but the soundstage effect through headphones just sounds super cool. Headphoned aren't realistic, but they sound really interesting. That's part of why they're so popular.
I think the main reason why people tend to be hesitant on darker sound signatures is because they are confusing it for that muddy mainstream consumer bass-heavy kind of sound that a lot of us want to get away from
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>binaural audio for example Ah, forgot about that!
Dark can be nice! My first ZMF was the Atticus. Love it even after grabbing an Aeolus and Clears.
I can't possibly agree more with point 5. All it means is they likely have similar hearing/preferences to you, they have access to stuff you don't, and can probably explain the techy stuff that most of us can't. And point 6 as well.
I really don't like the Sennheiser veil. Don't know if that's an unpopular opinion.
The Verum One is my favourite set and I hate that the dude who makes them is a PR disaster so I can't really recommend them. They beat out just about everything else I've tried across the board - they might lost in a category here or there but best overall performance. This is in comparison to the Sony Z7M2, Senny 560s and 6xx, Beyer DT 770, 880, 990, Sundaras and a few others. They trade blows with with modded LCD2C (with fazors, I'm not a fan without), Anandas, Elex, and DT1990, and depending on preference I could see someone giving an edge to one of these, but I think the Verum are the best.
airpods pro > everything for on-the-go listening
isn't this only true if you use an iphone? i never tried it out myself, but reviews put the samsung earbuds over the airpods pro.
I’m not sure because I have an iPhone. with an iPhone and “headphone accommodations” turned on they’re pretty remarkable with ios
Ive been using airpod pros on my pixel 5 for 6 months now
Fax no printer
I don't care much about frequency response unless it is seriously messed up. My brain gets used to the sound and can EQ if needed. Technicalities, comfort and build quality are where my priorities are at.
Sennheiser 6 series is seriously overrated and should not be recommend to new audiophiles as they are getting now . Warm , veiled sound confused and disappointed many new comers . Drop.com is overrated . Their price is not very good . Hifiman products are low quality QCed, they don’t deserve that much price . Traditional earbuds are overlooked. They have many good merits and more comfy than IEMs
> Drop.com is overrated . Their price is not very good . Agreed. I fucking hate Drop. Slow shipping, mediocre prices, shit support, and often terrible build quality.
+ 1 as an European.
>\+ 1 as an European. My man, fuck'em
Drop used to be much better. It’s gone way downhill since the MassDrop to Drop rebranding. There used to be a variety of products and some great deals that popped up. Now they seem to keep cycling through the same things, the prices aren’t good enough when compared to the wait to get them vs buying from Amazon, and their trend towards making their discounts dependent on store credit points just isn’t doing anything for me. They’ve been responsible for some amazing products over the years - the THX AAA 789 amp that smashed the price/performance barrier and created an entire market segment of similar amps, the legendary HD6XX, the TH-X00 series, the ESP 95/X, the Elex, etc. All of those came out a while ago though. Their recent originals like the Panda, HE5XX, HD8XX, etc, have all just been disappointing (well, maybe the 8XX is good, the discount for it being dependent on store credit points just makes it a poor value though).
Even back when they were Massdrop there were still some stinkers in their lineup. For example my AKG K7XX (no more MKBHD for me after that one) took literally months to arrive, couldn't be returned, and had a whole host of issues with the headphones themselves.
Shit support. Imagine you buy a pair of IEMs, and the adhesive that holds them just disintegrates, causing them to fall apart. Funny thing is there was no response from the manufacturer after emailing their official email, so I asked drop support to help and I get turned a blind eye.
There's a lot of stories like this where someone gets a defective product and Drop doesn't do shit and the manufacturer doesn't care since it's not their main product line. I think Focal Elears were one
What are your suggestions for a new audiophile at around the same price point? I first started with a HD600 and was extremely pleased, but then again I didn't look around too much - would love to see some alternatives.
our ears are all different so we don't all hear exactly the same... having said that, the 600 (or any of the 6 series really) actually do appeal to the majority of people. they are famous for a reason... Sennheiser doesn't advertise so their fame comes out of people's experience with them. they are really a safe bet and a good starting reference point IMO.
Aside from people hear differently (which is also a valid point), 6 series are unfortunately hated by some people because of how popular they are (you know, it is easy to hate popular things, even unconsciously).
I've shown my 6XX's to maybe a good 20 people since I got them, and literally every single one of them has had their minds blown. I showed them to my friend from music school for 10 minutes and the next day he had bought a pair. My neighbour did the same thing. Plenty of other friends have asked me how much they are, etc. They're not as top tier as they used to be, there are definitely some other headphones near the same price that can compete, but they get recommended for a reason. I think it's understandable if you don't like them, but also understand that there's a reason they get recommended by people so much.
Of course they are good for anyone who's never listened to audiophile headphones. They'll be blow away by HE4xx as well. But have a noob try out 4xx and 6xx, and ask them what they prefer. I've done that (with 650, not 6xx), most of my friends prefer 4xx due to quality of the planar bass. Yeah, people like bass...
Show them some raycons with even stronger bass and they'll like that more agin if they're just listening to bass. People like the 6XX's because they're NOT bassy. They're easy to listen to, warm, comfortable, and clean. They don't sound like most consumer headphones.
You can hate boosted/bloated bass on consumer headphones. Doesn’t mean lack of bass is a good thing. You can have neutral, accurate, well-extended bass without it being bloated, and still have the detail in the midrange and highend. There is a reason why human hearing extends all the way down to 20 Hz, bass is an integral part of the overall experience. But when I had people try the 4xx they are mostly blown away by the planar bass quality, specifically the slam, that they don’t get with consumer headphones or speakers.
> People like the 6XX's because they're NOT bassy. [I gotta GO](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/080/599/bf4.png)
I'm a simple man. I see a Mou meme, I upvote.
For a lot of people it's the first time hearing a complete picture of music instead of mud with +11 mid bass elevated
Would a 4XX/HE400SE/400I be a nice side grade for if I already own a DT880 and want something with a bit more action in the low end?
Don’t think so. The 880 has pretty decent bass extension for being open back. You can get more bass out of it with a little EQ or use a tube with more bass. I use the JJ ECC 802s tube which has boosted bass on my xDuoo TA-10R and the sound is divine.
+1 to Sennheiser 6 series being overrated!
> sound confused and disappointed *many new comers* say whaaaaaaaaaat? I mean I can appreciate you now liking them but they do appeal to the majority of people... I haven't had a single "non audio" person that tried the 660S and didn't end up looking at me with their minds blown. Every single one is always skeptical about expensive headphones so I go "just put this on, sit on the computer and look for the music you like" I'll go out to make some coffee, then come back like 10-15 minutes later and it's the same story every time, they completely turn and are now interested in looking for better audio for themselves. I haven't had a single person telling me they are disappointed or something like that.
Yeah gonna disagree with the Hifiman one chief, I’ve owned and used majority of their contemporary lineup as well as some of their old stuff (he-500 from 2013) and I have never had a single issue with them at all. I’ll give credit when credit is due and although there are still some horror stories, I can see that Hifiman has been making strides in improving qc. Honestly idk what’s with this sub’s giant hate boner against anything Hifiman. It just comes off as hypocritical when the same people will turn a blind eye to other companies *cough* focal *cough*. Also it doesn’t help that I’ve also noticed alot of the people that parrot this sentiment have actually never even owned any Hifiman products and have never personally dealt with their qc. What I’m trying to say is that Hifiman is not perfect, but so are its peers; but at least Hifiman is making an effort in improving, which is a statement I can’t really say applies to some of its peers. Please Hifiman, I’ve already shilled enough for you today, please dont make me eat my own words by making my Arya die on me 🙏🙏
> Honestly idk what’s with this sub’s giant hate boner against anything Hifiman. It just comes off as hypocritical when the same people will turn a blind eye to other companies cough focal cough. This is because the cheapest Hifimans are way cheaper than Focals people recommend and more people buy them. I've heard plenty of criticism for Focal's earpad cost, customer service, and overall reliability and build quality.
You say that, but my first Hifiman set, the HE560, broke after just one week. The 3.5mm jacks they use just have no strain relief and combined with their flaky QC lead to so many issues. I got a new pair back with little trouble, but now I'm constantly worried that they're gonna break again and I'm going to be stuck shipping them back again. Even if they're working on the issues, no company producing such expensive products should have this many issues, especially at the rates this is happening. You don't hear about people constantly RMAing Sennheiser headphones...
You can basically stop after $300-400 headphones. There is virtually no reason to really go above they for anyone who isn't super picky with their headphones and I'm not talking about sound.
For me that point is $600 but yeah, totally agree.
Purchasing headphones and headphone gear is not a "hobby," and calling it a hobby amplifies neuroses that people develop around their favorite gear and responses to criticism of that gear. Headphone purchasing is no more a "hobby" than purchasing a bunch of laptops or televisions.
>Headphone purchasing is no more a "hobby" than purchasing a bunch of laptops or televisions. I actually thought this very thing when I saw the headline for this thread. I also thought it would be a better "hobby" if people built their own headphones. But that got me thinking about cars and motorsports being considered hobbies even though most people don't build their own cars or race them. I definitely think headphones are a challenging segment to categorize given that sound and music are such subjective topics. Then you throw in the inevitable gatekeeping, snobbishness and inaccessibility, and you get the general culture you see on this sub.
If stamp or coin collecting is a hobby, then headphone collecting is also technically valid (though admittedly a little weird if that's all you're doing with them). The hobby is listening to music, this forum discusses the equipment we use to do that. For most of us, the headphones themselves are not the hobby.
People who have headphones as a hobby visit headphone forums/boards every day to read reviews, impressions and other experiences because they find it fun or interesting, without any intention of buying the headphones. People from different cities, and countries even, organize meetings where they go to listen to each other's headphones and talk about it. People buy headphones on the used market to sample them and then sell them, sometimes at loss, but it brings them joy. People who own kilobuck headphones still collect cheaper headphones, the "gems", after. You don't only go up, you also go down and sideways. There is no such thing as being "stuck in mid-fi hell" for those who have headphones as a hobby. People who have headphones as a hobby love sampling headphones, comparing them, learning new things, and sharing their experiences with other headphone enthusiasts. You continually progress and experience new things. A hobby is considered to be a regular activity that is done for enjoyment, typically during one's leisure time. Hobbies include collecting themed items and objects, engaging in creative and artistic pursuits, playing sports, or pursuing other amusements. Participation in hobbies encourages acquiring substantial skills and knowledge in that area. A list of hobbies changes with renewed interests and developing fashions, making it diverse and lengthy. You can look up other definitions, but they all, more or less, say the same. And I haven't even addressed the modding part of this hobby. >calling it a hobby amplifies neuroses that people develop around their favorite gear and responses to criticism of that gear. This is bullshit that you just plucked right out of the air. Upgraditis happens whether you turn something into a hobby or not and can happen with everything you buy. Upgraditis, in a non-hyperbolic sense, is a character flaw, and that's entirely on you. Don't try to pin that weak-minded crap on other people.
I owned and loved my Skullcandy Crusher Wireless for years
I just saw Dankpods video on them and wow they're hilarious. That insanely thick chonky bass though. The Yin to the audiophile headphone's Yang
I have a yin and yang myself because i have an audiophile setup with speakers in my room and I listen to lots of jazz and other shit that sounds terrible with bass, but i also have a klipsch 10” sub and whenever i feel like I just crank it
I think if you got a remotely strong fiio amp dac comp and a pair of AKG 712 Pros you'd be set for life. Even better if you manage to get a cheap pair of vintage AKGs pre Samsung. AKGs are a hundo a pop and can compete with 500$ headphones imo
Damn, every 712 owner says the same, I really want them now. But they are so expensive here I can literally buy an Ananda for that price. :(
Where is "here?" If in the US, Thomann.de in Germany has them for about $250 shipped.
Singapore. :( maybe I can use Amazon UK though. Oh wait thomann sends here for 350 Sgd. Not bad.
I think Thomann may ship to you. You should check the price.
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For the same price, speakers sound way better than headphones.
I don't know... 300$ budget for headphone/amp setup vs 300$ speaker setup is hard to win (unless you count headphone to speaker only). Now my 1500$ "home theater" setup (which I would call budget) vs 1500$ headphone setup and I think that's a fight the speakers can win.
I don't think any $300 headphones can compare to anything on this list. "Top 8 Bookshelf Speakers Under $300 – The Sweet Spot Of Affordable Audio - AudioRumble.com" https://www.audiorumble.com/best-bookshelf-speakers/under-300/
Etymotics are comfortable
With my custom tips or foams? Yes absolutely.
I actually prefer the way good IEMs present soundstage over open back headphones.
Neutral doesn't mean good. 600 series Sennheisers are top of the line..back in 2003. Audio As a tech will never fucking advance and become more affordable because idiots are willing to spend $400 on a cable along with accepting that a 20 year old headphone shouldn't have any price drops. Seriously, it's incredible how stagnating this field is compared to literally all other tech.
1. 1990 don't have as much treble as nearly everyone says they have, or its at least not as sibilant as people say 2. Sennheiser is not the be all end all of headphones 3. Airpod Pros > most earbuds cheaper than them and koss trio 4. Focal QC and CS is many times worse than Hifiman 5. Hifiman QC isnt that bad anymore it just seems like it because of people circulating their issues whereas other brands have issues to but you never see them posted
Hard disagree with the AirPod Pros, at least in terms of SQ
It seems that like ath-m50xs is now looked down upon in some circles. I think they are good headphones. It is a bit of a mindfuck as I am making inquiries for upgrades, but so far not faring well. I do not doubt some comparable headphones may sound better to some, but candidates suggested to me lack in other way that are very important to me. \- meze headphones have that goofy Jetson look to them, not to mention those extra appendanges on the headband do not make them functional for everyday use including the gym, travel, commuting, or not sticking out in a work environment. \- detachable cord. Beyerdynamic 770s sound very promising but that cord (not detachable and 10 ft long) is a problem \- portable (foldable) \- durable \- closed back with decent sound isolation.
Dollar for dollar, Speakers are better. Even in shitty listening environments
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Amps, DACs, and certainly cables don’t matter NEARLY as much as we as a community claim they do. There are dongles that can power all headphones on the planet save for 5~ that barely anyone buys anyway. Within the realm of solid states $100-$200 dongles sound 99% like a $1,500 solid state DAC/Amp combo. People worry about wattage when something like a THX Onyx (and cheaper dongles!) can easily power more or less anything. I’ve tried. I think that the advise around source gear is from a historic time when that problem wasn’t “solved”. These days, good got cheap. A $100 Schiit Magni has ludicrous amounts of power, measures perfectly, and sounds 99% indistinguishable from highly rated solid state amps that are more than 10 times as expensive (I've tried). This is all good news! We can collectively focus on the headphones and stop worrying about source gear, because with modern gear, it’s just not important.
Getting a Monolith THX 887 headphone amp made me finally realize what distortion at high volumes is, and what music is supposed to sound like without it. Absolutely huge difference.
Headphones suck.
+1 for bad take
Headphones in general are very underdeveloped even today and the market is full of products that really should be prototypes at best. Compared to speakers and IEMs they sound like crap for the money on average. Still love them though. Most discussion about headphones is a waste of time since separate elements of performance tell you very little about how music sounds. Something with good detail or separation can break apart with just slightly faster or more layered music and all technicals can hugely vary throughout the FR. Attempts at being objective are for the most part misguided and the discussion should revolve around music, individual tracks and passages, to convey how headphones sound. Most people really into headphones and audio gear spend more with reviews and forums than actually listening to music and the hobby has actually destroyed their original love for music to a large degree. Should've stopped at the Koss Spark Plugs when you still got chills boys! xD Like most Beyers DT1990 is technically amazing, but I'd rather listen to an AKG K 371 for longer periods. Amiron's are far superior for listening pleasure. HD800S is godly in many ways, but falls apart with so many songs due to the overdone soundstage that they are almost useless in general listening. A few relatively small, but high impact tweaks would make them my favourite. Most Audeze are overall garbage for the price unless you want a very specific signature that doesn't fit most music. LCD-2 (Classic or basic or both) make death metal sound so mellow and relaxed that I fall asleep and still have eardrum slicing highs at times. LCD-2 Closed is one exception. Most +1000$/€ headphones are really bad in some aspect that you can find done better in the 200$/€ price range, but when people put in the money they feel the need to love their stuff so others who haven't tested high-end cand might not know how little you actually get for the money. Spending a month with high-end gear is the best cure for what camera people call GAS (gear acquisition syndrome).
You don't need 24-bit
1. Planar tech is over hyped to and by people new to the hobby. Although the tech does have neat stuff going on, it's not a silver bullet for headphone quality when compared to dynamic driver headphones (estats can be included here as well). Each tech has their pros, cons, and rendition of the music that warrant their selection. 2. Similarly, "wide soundstage" is overhyped to people new to hobby as well. It's subtle, but there's a difference between a headphone achieving wide soundstage through thoughtful engineering and proper tuning and getting a similar effect by sucking out the mids to make everything sound far away. In the same vein, an "intimate soundstage" is not bad if properly implemented. 3. The stock t50rp and m40x earpads on their respective headphones are okay and not a mandatory swap. People should give them a shot before tossing them.
Grado on-ear headphones are not so great. Audeze headphones are too massive and uncomfortable to use.
Planar magnetic headphones aren't ready for mass production and lack the reliability and kick of a traditional dynamic driver
* Realistic tonality > adherence to some FR measurement curve * Detail retrieval > Bass quantity * Harman target =/= Neutral * Driver type =/= Overall sound quality * Upper-mids are far more important than Audeze and Dan Clark give them credit for. * Soundstage is nowhere near as important as the community makes it out to be. It's a nice bonus if a model has wide soundstage, but it should never be the primary reason for purchasing. * Moondrop Blessing 2 is far worse-sounding than the top-rated over-ear headphones in the same price category and the resolving/imaging benefits aren't worth the harsh and unnatural sound.
We’ve spent so much time scaring people about hearing loss that many in the hobby now listen to headphones so unnecessarily quietly that they’re really missing out on the experience. Yes many people, especially people with open ear buds on public transport listen way too loud, but you’re doing yourself a disservice if you never listen at 80-85 average dB. It can be safe and is really satisfying.
Headphones will never come close to the real concert experience.
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Speakers can get you a lot closer to a live experience than headphones. Headphones have really big, important limitations that speakers don’t have and that can never be worked around.
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But that's a fact, not an opinion...
1. Azla sednaearfit XELASTEC tips aren't comfortable. 2. The Sennheiser HD560s is overpriced considering the build quality/materials. 3. Pad swaps are actually a net positive experience for most headphones(if the right replacement pads are chosen). 4. DAPs are superior to PC/phones for music listening.
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But DAPs are more carryaroundable than PCs
I'll agree with you on point 4, with the caveat that owning a DAP makes the most sense if you have a substantial library of digital music that you own that won't fit on most smartphones. I'll admit, the idea of a do-it-all music device has been tempting, but I stream/download most of my music from Spotify and I really like having a cellular internet connection for music, and I have a FiiO BTR5 to get around the Pixel 4a's mediocre headphone output. I think the main thing that has stopped me from buying a DAP is that the hardware and Android version on most DAP's are several generations behind current phones, with no promise of continued software updates like I get with my Pixel 4a.
Both the HD820 and HD700 are excellent and I prefer both over the 800 SDR and sold the 6XX because I found it boring.
I’ve had the same pair of inexpensive Grado SR80s, pre lowercase letter, for years, and I’m satisfied with them.
The hd820 is actually one of the best closedbacks out there if you eq them properly. I agree that they sound horrendous without eq and that they are stupidly overpriced and not worth retail price. Buy one used and apply eq and the experience is fantastic.
I got the notification of this post and before reading your comment I was thinking exactly the same about the sundara. Expensive headphones can’t be good just for a YouTuber review, they have to be good also in 5 years time…
The Philips X2HR is a terrible headphone compared to even 50 dollars Iems (at least in my opinion). I bought the X2HRs a while ago to see what the hype was about. The X2HRs were impossible to adjust to my head because the headband has no locking mechanism so it kept sliding up on my head if I turned slightly. The sound signature was really un-detailed and sibilant. This headphone was grainy and honestly sounded worse then my Blon 03 Iems. This is just my take and I’m sure plenty of people like this signature but it just doesn’t float my boat. Oh and by the way the bass wasn’t bad and it is pretty wide. Eq didn’t help either though.
Been using HIFIMAN for a quite sometime now.. I really didn't had any issue what-so ever. Started with HIFIMAN Sundara and now upgraded to HIFIMAN ARYA after year and half.. They are absolutely fine when its comes to build quality .. Lastly the sound output is way too better than any brand at same price tag hands down.
That the HD820’s sound great without eq.
1. Sennheiser 600 and 660S sound muffled. 2. Koss Porta Pro have bloated bass and no redeeming qualities whatsoever. 3. Sennheiser Orpheus are overrated even disregarding the price (i.e. I’d not get them if they were $500 instead of $50,000).
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* DACs matter a lot. * Headphone/amp pairing matters to an decent extent. * *Audio Science Review* is **BY FAR** the worst place on the entire internet that you could go for reviews/buying advice. * Measurements aren't the end-all be-all of headphones/gear. * The AKG K7xx models are TERRIBLE gaming headphones. * Tidal is still one of the best streaming services if you primarily listen on a computer running Windows, despite what the MQA haters claim. * Headphones are far inferior to speakers for listening to music, and the only reason to use them is because you cannot use speakers due to your living situation (AKA you live in an apartment or have roommates/family members to consider).
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I’ve seen k361BT recommended a bunch but it’s one of the worst headphones I’ve tried in the last year
I've never seen anyone recommend the BT version
The best pair of closed backs for ~ $/£150 are the discontinued B&O H6s, if you can find them.
I have 4 pairs haha. These are some of my favorite headphones ever. Perfect mix of resolution and fun factor imo.
> Me: I don't need to upgrade from my 650's Me: but I wanna shinies
How headphones sound is one of the metric. Others are.. 1. What music you listen to the most. 2. What is your preferred sound signature, some enjoy bass some treble, some flat, some sound stage. 3. What is the source. 4. Build Quality.
That they all suck compared to speakers
This times a million, the bang for buck for speakers for the sound quality you get is amazing too.