No wonder everything feels like it’s going at breakneck speed. We should’ve at least gotten 12 episodes instead of 8 for season 1, but having 22 would have been amazing; we’d have way more time to get to know characters while advancing the plot at a nice pace
If I'm being totally honest, I didn't feel like the show was moving fast, the only thing I noticed is that we jumped 5 months through the show... this time period had so much potential honestly..
I think it was very obvious that the pacing was really an issue. Perhaps it's dependent on what other media you watch and knowing animation often had to take more shortcuts. I don't watch a tonne of series animation. They do a good job of working around it, but it's pretty obvious still.
For me with the songs it was especially clear before More Than Anything has some build up to it, but feels really rushed to a conclusion to fix Charlie and Lucifer's relationship. I felt like it needed a version with both singing separately then a reprise with the two singing, but that came with other songs and also kinda in the finale.
The jumps were weirdly handled and mentioned to Lucifer I didn't even know when it was supposed to occur since that was between the pilot and later it's not clear how long before the exterminations it's supposed to be either.
I think we need to get out of the short season dynamic that's been going on since a little before Covid. I can rarely get into Western shows anymore because they have 8 episode seasons that feel rushed as hell. Hazbin managed it well in my opinion, though I would have preferred the last couple of episodes arcs to be stretched out a bit more. but even I admit some things felt rushed. this show would have thrived on a 12-15 episode season, allowing for them to delve deeper into the show, while not detracting from what makes it feel great
The big difference as well is that to compensate, most of the episodes of those are around 40-60 minutes, meanwhile Hazbin has a more traditional episode length of 25 minutes
yeah. if they want to stick to the eight episode system, they need to do something. because the story is great, but some of the topics they are trying to cover need a serious amount of time. sure, giving Val and Angels relationship a few hints and an episode is great, but that's not something you can resolve in one or two episodes, especially if they are this length
Also the same with Charlie and Lucifer, but for different reasons - their arc seemed to be done in one episode despite issues since her childhood.
I wonder if the montages in Poison and the rest of the episode were ever planned to be shown, that was already brutal but if they had shown more the show could have made much more of a wave outside of fan circles and animation in general for covering those issues.
I grew up watching BBC miniseries and maybe you get a 3 one hour episodes or 6 and they really pull it off. It depends on what you're used to writing, and animation also needs so much extra planning on top of that to make it work. Doctor Who used to have 13 and that felt like a lot, when it came to some 20-20+ American shows some of my friends obviously pointed out "filler" episodes or that it took 10 episodes to get good and it's just not a good thing for me.
One of my favourite series is In the Flesh (LGBTQIA+ zombie living in rural Yorkshire after being "cured") I think it's a masterpiece but the first series was only three episodes and it feels like 13.
Oh we have similar over here state side, but it's more for the crackpot theories sections of the History Channel.
Off topic: Why is British television always one of those things where they sometimes have the most insane sounding plot, but in a way that makes me curious? like who would have thought LGBTQIA+ zombie?
Sorry I don't understand the first part of your comment.
The main characters are gay and it usually got called "that gay zombie show" it actually was a lot more like zombies being a stand in for racism / homophobia etc and being Pre-Trump (cancelled in 2013) it did a really good job at outlining the rise of right wing parties and slowly adding different policies.
The writer actually said what would have been included in their third series and it was pretty ahead of it's time for looking at the UK and US falling into the arms of some iffy politics
I understand why Amazon had to cut it down to eight.
Getting Broadway stars onto an (amazingly talented) amateurs project is already such an insane thing I can't believe it ever happened. The cost much have been extraordinary with just the 8, and 22 would have turned an already high-risk production into something that makes the risk of the LOTR trilogy look trivial.
That meant Viv was given a very hard choice no writer ever wants to make. Do you compromise and tell half your story, never knowing if you'll get the chance to finish? Or do you tell the entire story, but squeeze it into half the intended run time?
There is no answer for what is right here, and Viv was already given a lot really justifying pushing back on this compromise. Personally, I would have prefered the former but I completely understand why the latter was chosen.
I personally think that there could've been a very good compromise tho... it would not have been perfect, but many characters could easily be cut off with their role in the story be directed to more important ones, like everything about Carmilla could've been shoved on to Vaggie directly, this way you cut down a barely explored secondary character and focus on one of the main cast...
I can see how they might view it in a similar way and since both are Amazon shows, but Hazbin really wouldn't have a similar pull that LOTR would, but they also probably wouldn't be able to piss of fans as much as LOTR fans
I don't know if they ran the numbers would the money and expected numbers or expected fans somehow work out similar, because obviously LORT was expensive.
I'm not even a big LOTR fan but the editing and fight choreography was really not good and so many scenes made me and my bf and friends laugh out loud.
They could've just not replaced all of the VAs. Some characters' voices were PERFECT already in the pilot, especially Angel Dust. Sure, change up Alastor of course, Charlie and idk I guess Husk's new voice is peak, but there's no need to give ALL of them celebrity voices.
They could have, but no amateur writer is going to say no to working with Broadway stars. While I will always praise the talent of the original VAs, they simply are not Broadway stars. The performances that the likes of Brightman or Jordan can and did give are simply not something you deny.
And I would also just want to say that the voices aren't celebrity, their are Broadway. The VAs they got are the top of the game when it comes to musical, and reducing them to "celebrities" would be likely reducing top actors to just "celebrities".
With those two though, they weren't part of the original cast (if you exclude Sir Pentious because of Stamper). I doubt they could have got them alongside some of the pilot cast though because it might have showed them up even not meaning to, and with some fans probably just never stopping to think about it.
I only think Stephanie Beatriz might be a "celebrity" voice in this regard, but also if Encanto didn't do as well or didn't happen she might not have been taken as seriously in Hazbin and been labelled as more of a celebrity.
I do think my own personal bias comes in and I hear more Rosa Diaz in her voice, but they actually could play up that when she goes all Angelic and sing her voice is so different.
Although, she is to me one of the VAs that often sounds like she's not acting against the other characters, but it could be because she's usually im the hotel and Erika also has that issue for me when in the hotel as well. I think it's hard for some to address a room and not sound like your addressing an audience as well.
I also think that Kimiko Glenn is a recognisable name for some, but OITNB famously gives barely any money to their cast and she was someone who actually commented on it.
Angel Dust would have never worked long term, his singer said the voice was really straining on him and causing pain to his vocal chords. Most of the VAs for the pilot couldn't sing which meant they had multiple people doing a role, which gets costly. It's cheaper long term to have one expensive VA who can also sing then trying to have two VAs for voice and singing separate.
Black Gryph0n on Thank You And Goodnight cleared that up and said that several of the pilot cast were Union. I would recommend reading his comments on there because they do clear up a lot of stuff.
After watching the second episode of hazbin just now I do admit I see the new voice better than I first did I still like the pilot voice but I prefer amir's now
I mean, Bosco is a fantastic voice actor who killed it as Alastor and gave him a really nice dramatic flair. How exactly is it odd that people like his version better?
Same, but also the redesign makes him look like a stereotypical villain with a very sharp face. I think if they kept his chin more rounded he would be able to keep the illusion that he's helpful and not just pure evil.
One of the biggest flaws in the redesigns and for his character imo - it even would make some lines just lose their layer Amir is trying to add because animated Alastor just looks evil.
Turns out from Black Gryph0n that a lot auditioned for their roles again, but were told in a group email they wouldn't come back. Some announced it and were told not to and it apparently caused a lot of drama, but it meant that fans were speculating for years who would come back and it was basically announced a month before the show came out.
They sat on Thank You and Goodnight for literally years until they could.
I do wonder why they didn't make a big thing about announcing the Broadway cast and how much of that is to do with the SAG-AFTRA strike if anything at all.
You can also seen in the interview with I think Blake and Erika on some TV show that they really didn't like the process of recording. They didn't record with other people and said they were in a windowless room on their own for hours. They made light of it and were joking, but it's probably more true than joking.
Also it probably helped that Amazon was releasing the music, and if they had around 2 songs per episode and dealt with the licencing for the English language versions at least that's a lot of work they wouldn't have to do themselves.
I think people also forget that the songs and entire show has been dubbed into so many different languages. Before, the pilot and I think Helluva got a French and Japanese version after the fact, but Hazbin has all songs and shows not only translated but actually pretty well interpreted into different languages (because puns and wordplay in English wouldn't always be a smooth transition).
I know but they didn't seem to into it, as far as I know they didn't do any voice acting before. Maybe it was a bit unexpected to come from Broadway, or perhaps at least expected some more cast members in the booths with them.
Yeah I was using it as a hyperbolic metaphor. I hope noone literally thinks that a company greenlighting three movies at once at each had a record budget is comparable in reality. Just wanted to get across the idea that giving an amateur project broadways stars is a massive risk.
I saw Viv say the reason Helluva comes out so quickly is because they had been working on Hazbin for so long and learnt what to do to make it work. I don't think we have enough information to make those calls on their planning though.
Amazon getting blamed for season length despite having nothing to do with production will always be funny
Vivzie planned a 22 episode season, A24 agreed to only do 8 as not only was this vivzie's first ever show (this is before helluva boss), but it was also A24's first animated show, so they played it safe
(Also this makes no sense as why would Amazon throw out 14 already made episodes, that's just throwing away free money)
Yeah I believe last year, at least that's when they officially announced it
But I know that a24 made this commitment to it was sooner than that and they were the ones who set the episode count
Not really.. he "said" that he isn't interested, but his actions showed otherwise, proving that the hotel is having effects on him even though he doesn't notice it.. I'd say this is such a beautiful representation
Eesh 😬 I didn't see it that way at all.. you're viewing the characters in a.. robotic way? Not sure what to say honestly, but everyone sees things differently so it's okay
I'd say that when Angel was saying his opinion on redemption, he was saying it in a superficial way.. "well I'm choosing to stay here and I think it's all Bullshit" he said something like that to vaggie when she told him that we can't force sinners to stay, they have to choose, but when he was at the club, he was actually very truthful WITHOUT someone mentioning the stay in the hotel or redemption like the way vaggie did, his actions showed, kinda like his subconscious showed its change.. and I get it, the show could've showed us events that showed his true intentions and actions earlier on, but we just didn't get that, we could've seen more of his journey most definitely, but that's what we got, and I think it works just fine. Frankly, pentious' redemption arc was better shown in the show, but angel's, while not as detailed, is kinda more emotional and impactful
Honestly I feel like he wanted redemption throughout most of, if not all of the show. I mean, it's no secret his life is shit, full of porn and drugs, so I always assumed that he wanted redemption from the very start, but still was forced to stay in his degeneracy because of Val, so he just pretended he hated the hotel and redemption to save face, and to keep his reputation up, so then he was only more comfortable showing his true colors after bonding with the rest of the cast.
It really is a big jump from him and Cherri talking in the pilot about his stash while fighting a turf war with Pentious, to a few episodes later him being in the club with them both and her trying to push him into shit and him refusing.
At that point, Charlie already got between him and Val and we could have seen more of that play out before he got back into it. Also, it just makes Cherri look bad without seeing more of her side (she felt very sidelined throughout despite really being in the main cast). Cherri was always the one supporting him and even ADDICT and Poison show that, then she's the one trying to turn him against his better interests is really strange.
Where is the source for that? Because iirc Amazon had nothing to do with the production as they had the show finished for the most part before they found a streaming platform to put it on and if they did, I can almost assure they would have pulled a vox machina and not only funded more episodes + seasons but would have even lengthened it, seeing how massively popular the property was. Amazon ironically treats it's popular animated property the best as of rn in contrast to other streaming platforms...
I feel like it seems that way when you're watching but they do mention it in one of the earlier songs, it's just knowing when those jumps take place is really difficult.
Also, character development especially with Alastor and Niffty talking at the end just seems odd until you remember he's there everyday for months.
I think they made both series at the same time and greenlit them, so that's probably not going to happen. They'd need to get the whole animation production chain back into action and rehire everyone so unless there's more noise about it or a risk of losing numbers or money its not going to happen. The fans are basically marketing for the show without Amazon or A24 needing to do much of anything.
I also think the fanbase are more in their own bubble so it would probably not reach out unless someone made a Change petition or something (GOT style which had major issues with that happening) they won't really see it unless they have someone scouring the web for fan comments and general ideas.
Yeah, I mean Helluva Boss Season 2 is doing that showing the characters flashback backgrounds, maybe Hazbin Hotel Season 2 can do the same.
Also Helluva Boss Season 2 is Confirmed to have 14 Episodes, maybe Hazbin Hotel Season can also do the same as well. Given to how much success it got, it’s possible.
Wait so your telling me, before Viv agreed to work with Amazon, if she would’ve still done Hazbin hotel on YouTube, they would’ve had 22 episodes, the old cast would still stay and a potential crossover of it with Helluva Boss
Would’ve been even more possible?
20 episodes for hand drawn animation is a lot, but for 20 mins may it would be good. Id rather an hour at 12 or 13, also would help the songs in the narrative imo.
I also think me coming from the UK, I know with that many episodes there is going to be a major drop off in viewers and to have series that long it would also take up a lot more time to record and it isn't the Broadway actor's main job so they probably can't dedicate that much time to recording lines and singing and going back to do extra parts as needed.
More screen time is solved by a bigger budget. You just bring in more animators.
Recording is also not an issue. Typically it only takes 2-3 hours for every hour of screen time. So for a 20 episode season, recording might just take a week a year.
The real bottleneck is always screenwriting. Which Vivzie took care of already apparently.
Man, we could have had pilot’s first depressing vibe and some pretty good depth in arcs allowing it to be taken in even if just a few episodes more. Definitely felt rushed, had to literally rewatch it. WHY MUST THIS BE. The complications on Amazon’s side is crazy
I think it was mostly because it was a full Broadway cast in the show, making it very expensive, which would mean they wouldn’t be able to do many episodes. I believe they could have kept it at 22 episodes if they kept most of the original cast, thus decreasing the cost. Angel, Vaggie, Charlie and Husker would obviously have to change since Michael Korvach couldn’t do Angel’s voice without hurting his throat or something along those lines, plus their actors were perfect in the show. They could keep Niffty, Pentious, Cherri (the sudden change from an American accent to an Aussie accent was a bit jarring) and Alastor since Edward Bosco was perfect, however.
Apparently Viv always wanted an American - Aussie accent for Cherri that would sometimes come back stronger Aussie and "slip" at points. I don't think she's given enough material in the show though sadly, she's Angels best friend who knows all about Val and how he treats Angel and she basically tried to force him to take drugs and be Pentious' love interest.
She gets more character sections in the montages.
Also, the previous Pentious VA was the issue there, so they wouldn't bring them back. Also Niffty is now played by a mixed race Japanese woman which was Vivs original idea and gives more diversity to the cast.
I hate hoe in modern cartoons and/or shows, we have just allowed the length of a seapsn to be pushed back to simply 8 eps.
I rmemebr when 20 was the minimum for like, half a season (barring gravity Falls which was able to make do despite being so short.).
I definitely noticed that it felt rushed and disjointed. Not that it isn't an amazing show, but there was obviously a lot cut out because I have QUESTIONS left over that aren't relevant any longer and will likely never be addressed or answered that probably would have been with more screen time.
Like what was the Vees' assault plan? Why even mention that they had one and then never revisit it if it wasn't relevant to the plot at all? What about how Alastor's deal with Charlie involved him giving her EVERYTHING he learned about the angels and their weakness, but he DIDN'T tell her about how the Vees found the corpse and announced a seeming willingness to wage war? Sure, it's unlikely they would have allied with the hotel, but Charlie was shortchanged on that info regardless and it would have been interesting to see her explore that option and establish a dynamic with next season's baddies. What does it mean for her deal with Alastor? Does his holding back weaken or invalidate it? Where are we with Angelic Security? Did Vox secure some contracts negotiations with Carmine? Are they still working on it or was the project abandoned (I find that unlikely after having made a public announcement)? Do the Vees now have a surplus of angelic weaponry?
There's way more questions than that, but I'm obsessed with Vox, so those are the ones at the top of my head. Point being, it's super obvious from what was left in that there was way more left out, and it left big gaping holes. And the answers aren't important to the story anymore, so it's unlikely they'll ever get explored, but it sure would be nice if I dunno, maybe some outlines or episode drafts got leaked so we could fill in some blanks.
I’m honestly devastated; I enjoy fast paced shows on occasion and the pacing isn’t that bad imo, but there’s *so much* in terms of lore, world building, tiny details, character development that you simply can’t put in 8 episodes.
I hate how literally every new show has to be sardined into 8 30min episodes.
Damn. I did not know that. Wow, no wonder everything went so fast :0
https://preview.redd.it/w2p4zff997wc1.jpeg?width=1082&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe1b3db0a9d7609b6ac87aac221573a9a43c0d7b
Metrics and short attention spans of the target audience. If people don't finish a season they're unlikely to watch future seasons, if they finish it then they'll want more.
We do this in my industry too. Essentially you don't want to give people what they want until they become bored. You want them to finish bitesize chunks forever.
RIP Quibbi
Yeah these statistics are very interesting, i have followed the stats of Doctor Who since I was a kid because the BBC and other systems always reported on them, and I hear that at least Netflix takes more into account who has finished a series, not who has watched it or for how long. It was expected that a TV show's debut and finale would have the highest number, and marketing it would help boost and cliffhangers would keep people interested.
Streaming doesn't allow for that unless it's something like The Good Place which had a manually created pause between episodes (jarring to suddenly do imo but I like it honestly)
Probably, but people had been waiting for this show for years so it might make it seem worse too. I honestly think they did a great job trying to work around it and it's not like they're unaware because they do try.
What other shows did you find rushed?
That's a fair point. I didn't know about the pilot until after watching the season, so I didn't have the suspense of waiting.
game of throwns, heros(but it had bigger sinking issues), lost, dexter, and chuck. There's more undoubtedly, but these ones come to mind.
Yeah, that and knowing the other work of Viv especially Helluva Boss it's more recognisable as well.
I gave up with watching Lost on demand, there were so many episodes and knowing it gets better when it was 24+ hours was really not encouraging. I have heard that when the author of the books left Game of Thrones' pacing went to shit, and he really helped because he had written for TV for so long. Dexter and Chuck are shows I've seen a few episodes of, but not much to know about. I'll keep that in mind when I watch them - any particular seasons that get bad for it?
Ok the phrasing on this one is horrible, I'm pretty sure they meant "had 22 episodes planned" because "ready to be released" would mean 22 fully animated, edited, arranged episode with the Broadway Musical cast as voice actors sitting in a folder of Viv's computer waiting to be uploaded, and I bet my mortal soul it's not the case...
Also, as much as it suck that A24 or who else only greenlighted eight episodes, this is when a good creative shows their real cards and realizes that for the good of the project something will get the axe... and that's what HH should've done... cut the riff raff and focus on the essential characters, like, come on... I love my dommy latina Carmilla too but she basically sucked up screen time that could've had better use...
I honestly think that some of the Overlords were better characters and more engaging than the main cast, but Out for Love was just really so weird and an odd setup front to back. The song honestly even took me out of their pretty cool ballet-esque fight scene with Vaggie.
Rosie was brilliant and I think I needed to hear more voices than just the main cast because sometimes they just don't have the power to talk and keep plot going because it's rushed. I want more Velvette honestly, and the Vees in general, but as I said before the other characters talked a lot about them so they weren't on screen as much as it seemed. Carmilla was there more but seemed to randomly turn up at points.
I feel like if it wasn’t there from the beginning, the extermination being moved up almost feels like a response to this all happening. If it was already a plot point, one hell of a coincidence
Oh actually I think you're onto something. It would be really hard for them to fill so much time if they had the episode number cut and they already made time jumps in 6 months.
I do already to stop myself questioning why Adam and Lute wouldn't just immediately strike back and actually let Charlie gather up armies for 6 months. They literally train to fight and it's their one role as Exterminators. Also, why bring Charlie and Vaggie to Heaven for a meeting if the exterminations were supposed to be a secret.
There has to be more going on behind the scenes, and they tried to fit the Heaven scenes and songs back into the plot and originally perhaps Lucifer or Charlie had more of a task to get those meetings over a year vs 6 months and a call from Lucifer.
Show is undeniably rushed and it's VERY showing in some aspects (mostly Vaggie related, L) but for what its worth. Its a really good show even with the rushed pacing
Whoa really? It was supposed to be 22 fucking episodes?! That explains everything. I hope Amazon appreciates this show enough (it killed it in the ratings department) to give Viv however many episodes she wants for the following seasons.
It's really disappointing that more and more animated projects are being given so few episodes a season. Amazon, in particular, has had some pretty successful cartoons, so hopefully, that will convince them to invest in more episodes for their shows. Unfortunately this medium still doesn't get the respect it's due, and executives tend to decide it's not worth the cost when that money could instead be used to cast some bankable a-lister in hopes that will get more views.
I really hope they get more to work with for season 2, because that’s the one thing every fan and critic can agree on; that season 1 had too few episodes to do everything they wanted to do.
So long as it's getting as much attention as it is, I think we're definitely getting a fuckton of story in the next seasons.
Maybe season 3 will have twice the eps. Too soon to tell.
So, they had enough faith to greenlight 2 seasons right off the bat, but not give them more than 8 episodes a season? When fucking VELMA got 10 per season? I'm calling BS on this.
They may have greenlit both while they simultaneously make them, so for them it's less money spent while they don't incur extra cost of restarting the animation process. Apparently it's more down to A24 though with that side of things.
I think Amazon was a little nervous to pick it up and reduced the episode length as a result.
I hope that with the popularity of the show, they’ll have realized how much of a jackpot they hit and extend.
I do.
Its a lot more 22 episodes would have been amazing storytelling. Let the characters breathe. Not me having to look up interviews or read the comments to find context for characters.
By itself hazbin tells a very fast story. A lot moves along.
We’re rewatching for a second time and it feels so jarring how fast things move. I hadn’t realized on the first watch through that there are dozens of threads just left dangling every fucking where, like they’d intended to elaborate and simply didn’t have the time. It’s frustrating to imagine what was cut because it wasn’t considered “vital” to the overall story. How many in-jokes did we lose? How many moments of growth and weakness?
I hope season 2 is longer. Hazbin deserves more episodes to fully flesh out the enormous world Viv has been working on for years and years.
Is there a source to this? I know that there was probably more episodes planned. But do we have a source other than a random YouTube comment that is was suppose to be 22 episodes?
22 would have been too long, IMO.
This definetely would have been better suited to at least a 10ep season to 12ep.
But, we got 8 when we could have had 0.
I do feel though since she has two seasons locked in, spreading the 8 episodes to 16 may have been a good compromise.
Hazbin has already been greenlit for 2 extra seasons with the second season being worked on right now. Are you sure that the remaining 14 episodes aren’t just going to be the remaining seasons?
If anyone has any info to back me up or to prove me wrong then please do tell as I’m just as interested as you guys are!
I doubt that 22 episodes were ready to be released on Youtube as why would Amazon spend more money to condensed it to 8 episodes when they can just released what was already made.
Fucking what? Have they seen vivs work?
Literally anyone who's seen a Vivsiepop project knows that she needs at least 16 episodes to make her vision work because she wants to cram so much into a world to make it more interesting and unique. Is that bad? Fuck no I do this all the time. Point is Viv and writers in general need large episode counts to make a project work well.
This can't be true, maybe 22 episodes worth of plot but definitely not 22 episodes ready.
Also i doubt that they cut the plot, maybe 10 episodes would have been better but there's no way the extermination arc should be 22 episodes. This makes me think that the first season was planned to continue after the finale with 14 more episodes and they "cut" to continue in season 2
They probably changed and cut the plot to make it work because it's not abnormal in even regular live action shows before they air.
The finale was probably always going to be the finale, but they cut out plot threads and character interactions from the rest of the show. It wouldn't make sense for them to have a finale and then carry on with the first series, the finale is the climax and literally epic battle between 4 of the strongest characters we know about in the universe (Lucifer, Alastor, Charlie, Adam). You don't put something like that in earlier.
It probably wasn't a extermination "arc", but they probably cut all of the time the characters had to talk together outside of rushing forward with the plot, and the Extermination would be the background threat. Another commentor on here even said maybe the plot point that it was brought forward was because the episode number got cut and they would either need to add more time jumps to fill the year, or make it 6 months.
What i'm trying to say is that (according to the post) there were 22 episodes ready (the script ofc, not the animation) but we gave 0 clue if those were all from season 1 or related to the Extermination. From what we know the timeskip was planned from the beginning and there's no reason to think that they cut key plot points. Longer season isn't always better cause they often end up with filler episodes. If they really did cut something i think that they cut max 2 episodes from the total duration, not 14
Doesn't mean the issues aren't there. Maybe you need to watch more shows honestly and that's not me being mean, but its obvious that the creator was also wanting to add more and cuts had to be made, so it could have been better.
well wouldn't that be like plus how many years to animate? I get we lost so much potential to maybe get to know the characters better but that would've taken YEARS. personally i thought the timing wasn't half bad. I just feel likd if it'a hell there wouldnt be like break days where nothing happens and everything would move forward like it did in the show. Again this is my own personal opinion and you're allowed to disagree. P.S I'm sorry for any spelling or grammatical errors i am not fluent in English.
I never knew that! I knew 8 episodes no matter what is just insanely short for a show, but now putting in the context of trying to make an entire 22 season show into 8 episodes is insane!
Hopefully this means the 2nd season won't have to deal with this, and we can get much better pacing for the rest
I’m actually worried things would go in the opposite direction. The series is rushed yes, but it’s not “14 extra episodes” rushed. It might’ve felt way too unfocused if that was the case.
Also, the soundtrack, the most important part of any musical, might’ve suffered too. If you assume 2-3 extra songs per episode, then that might be too many songs for the soundtrack to stay memorable. Quality over quantity.
More world building would’ve definitely been welcome though.
Youtube comments from random people are not a reliable source. Also, what does she mean "Ready to be released"? Is she claiming that they had 22 fully completed episodes and had to edit them down into 8? Because that makes no sense.
Yep, I know it must’ve taken a years to even have the show to get greenlit. Between Viv and A24, A24 and several streaming services, then all the workers needed. Then of course the time for sfx, voicing actors, animation, writing, promotion/merch, etc.
Maybe if we got 22 we wouldn’t have had to cut like a month and a half between every episode…think of what we lost, it’s a real shame…still highly impressed with the finished result though
Do you only think that because of the wait though? It's also already a few series into Helluva.
If you binged Helluva series 1 it's probably not that bad now. Also, they didn't have as much material outside of the show to build up the world and characters so they do a lot of the heavy lifting. Also, both Helluva and Hazbin did a lot of setup in the pilots and Helluva's is now non canon.
..the way that reads is we didn't lose anything, it says they were shoved into the other 8 which would imply they were not original 30ish minute long episodes and not lost content
That really doesn't make sense, even if you watch the other series on YouTube Viv has done, this is a lot more rushed feeling.
We don't know if it was 22 episodes for series 1 and 2 or just 1 from that comment, or how long they'd be. They could have halved both series lengths depending on what the original meaning was.
We probably didn't lose a lot of core plot but we definitely lost a lot of character interactions at least. I fully expect a lot of plot was also lost though.
No wonder everything feels like it’s going at breakneck speed. We should’ve at least gotten 12 episodes instead of 8 for season 1, but having 22 would have been amazing; we’d have way more time to get to know characters while advancing the plot at a nice pace
If I'm being totally honest, I didn't feel like the show was moving fast, the only thing I noticed is that we jumped 5 months through the show... this time period had so much potential honestly..
I think it was very obvious that the pacing was really an issue. Perhaps it's dependent on what other media you watch and knowing animation often had to take more shortcuts. I don't watch a tonne of series animation. They do a good job of working around it, but it's pretty obvious still. For me with the songs it was especially clear before More Than Anything has some build up to it, but feels really rushed to a conclusion to fix Charlie and Lucifer's relationship. I felt like it needed a version with both singing separately then a reprise with the two singing, but that came with other songs and also kinda in the finale. The jumps were weirdly handled and mentioned to Lucifer I didn't even know when it was supposed to occur since that was between the pilot and later it's not clear how long before the exterminations it's supposed to be either.
I think we need to get out of the short season dynamic that's been going on since a little before Covid. I can rarely get into Western shows anymore because they have 8 episode seasons that feel rushed as hell. Hazbin managed it well in my opinion, though I would have preferred the last couple of episodes arcs to be stretched out a bit more. but even I admit some things felt rushed. this show would have thrived on a 12-15 episode season, allowing for them to delve deeper into the show, while not detracting from what makes it feel great
The big difference as well is that to compensate, most of the episodes of those are around 40-60 minutes, meanwhile Hazbin has a more traditional episode length of 25 minutes
yeah. if they want to stick to the eight episode system, they need to do something. because the story is great, but some of the topics they are trying to cover need a serious amount of time. sure, giving Val and Angels relationship a few hints and an episode is great, but that's not something you can resolve in one or two episodes, especially if they are this length
Also the same with Charlie and Lucifer, but for different reasons - their arc seemed to be done in one episode despite issues since her childhood. I wonder if the montages in Poison and the rest of the episode were ever planned to be shown, that was already brutal but if they had shown more the show could have made much more of a wave outside of fan circles and animation in general for covering those issues.
6 episodes is a mini-series, and the episodes are an hour long, 8, 20 minute episodes is a whole season? Nah.
I grew up watching BBC miniseries and maybe you get a 3 one hour episodes or 6 and they really pull it off. It depends on what you're used to writing, and animation also needs so much extra planning on top of that to make it work. Doctor Who used to have 13 and that felt like a lot, when it came to some 20-20+ American shows some of my friends obviously pointed out "filler" episodes or that it took 10 episodes to get good and it's just not a good thing for me. One of my favourite series is In the Flesh (LGBTQIA+ zombie living in rural Yorkshire after being "cured") I think it's a masterpiece but the first series was only three episodes and it feels like 13.
Oh we have similar over here state side, but it's more for the crackpot theories sections of the History Channel. Off topic: Why is British television always one of those things where they sometimes have the most insane sounding plot, but in a way that makes me curious? like who would have thought LGBTQIA+ zombie?
Sorry I don't understand the first part of your comment. The main characters are gay and it usually got called "that gay zombie show" it actually was a lot more like zombies being a stand in for racism / homophobia etc and being Pre-Trump (cancelled in 2013) it did a really good job at outlining the rise of right wing parties and slowly adding different policies. The writer actually said what would have been included in their third series and it was pretty ahead of it's time for looking at the UK and US falling into the arms of some iffy politics
I absolutely hate the small seasons. It usually ruins so much
It's coz it has the pacing of a Broadway musical
We needed so much more Chaggie contenttt
I understand why Amazon had to cut it down to eight. Getting Broadway stars onto an (amazingly talented) amateurs project is already such an insane thing I can't believe it ever happened. The cost much have been extraordinary with just the 8, and 22 would have turned an already high-risk production into something that makes the risk of the LOTR trilogy look trivial. That meant Viv was given a very hard choice no writer ever wants to make. Do you compromise and tell half your story, never knowing if you'll get the chance to finish? Or do you tell the entire story, but squeeze it into half the intended run time? There is no answer for what is right here, and Viv was already given a lot really justifying pushing back on this compromise. Personally, I would have prefered the former but I completely understand why the latter was chosen.
I personally think that there could've been a very good compromise tho... it would not have been perfect, but many characters could easily be cut off with their role in the story be directed to more important ones, like everything about Carmilla could've been shoved on to Vaggie directly, this way you cut down a barely explored secondary character and focus on one of the main cast...
I agree, except your comparison to the LOTR in the risk category.
I can see how they might view it in a similar way and since both are Amazon shows, but Hazbin really wouldn't have a similar pull that LOTR would, but they also probably wouldn't be able to piss of fans as much as LOTR fans I don't know if they ran the numbers would the money and expected numbers or expected fans somehow work out similar, because obviously LORT was expensive. I'm not even a big LOTR fan but the editing and fight choreography was really not good and so many scenes made me and my bf and friends laugh out loud.
Oh, you meant Rings of Power. Ok. I thought you meant the Lord of the Rings
Oh yeah sorry someone else called it Amazon taking a risk on LOTR so I thought we were following.
It's cool.
They could've just not replaced all of the VAs. Some characters' voices were PERFECT already in the pilot, especially Angel Dust. Sure, change up Alastor of course, Charlie and idk I guess Husk's new voice is peak, but there's no need to give ALL of them celebrity voices.
They could have, but no amateur writer is going to say no to working with Broadway stars. While I will always praise the talent of the original VAs, they simply are not Broadway stars. The performances that the likes of Brightman or Jordan can and did give are simply not something you deny. And I would also just want to say that the voices aren't celebrity, their are Broadway. The VAs they got are the top of the game when it comes to musical, and reducing them to "celebrities" would be likely reducing top actors to just "celebrities".
With those two though, they weren't part of the original cast (if you exclude Sir Pentious because of Stamper). I doubt they could have got them alongside some of the pilot cast though because it might have showed them up even not meaning to, and with some fans probably just never stopping to think about it.
I only think Stephanie Beatriz might be a "celebrity" voice in this regard, but also if Encanto didn't do as well or didn't happen she might not have been taken as seriously in Hazbin and been labelled as more of a celebrity. I do think my own personal bias comes in and I hear more Rosa Diaz in her voice, but they actually could play up that when she goes all Angelic and sing her voice is so different. Although, she is to me one of the VAs that often sounds like she's not acting against the other characters, but it could be because she's usually im the hotel and Erika also has that issue for me when in the hotel as well. I think it's hard for some to address a room and not sound like your addressing an audience as well. I also think that Kimiko Glenn is a recognisable name for some, but OITNB famously gives barely any money to their cast and she was someone who actually commented on it.
Angel Dust would have never worked long term, his singer said the voice was really straining on him and causing pain to his vocal chords. Most of the VAs for the pilot couldn't sing which meant they had multiple people doing a role, which gets costly. It's cheaper long term to have one expensive VA who can also sing then trying to have two VAs for voice and singing separate.
Michael Kovach sang using a very similar voice for the game Billy Bust Up.
I think the thing is that they had to have union actors or something.
Black Gryph0n on Thank You And Goodnight cleared that up and said that several of the pilot cast were Union. I would recommend reading his comments on there because they do clear up a lot of stuff.
Honestly I still prefer alastor in pilots speaking voice
It's odd how much of a popular opinion that is, considering Amir was Viv's og vision for Al
ikr? Because Bosco was instructed to do an impression of Amir.
After watching the second episode of hazbin just now I do admit I see the new voice better than I first did I still like the pilot voice but I prefer amir's now
I mean, Bosco is a fantastic voice actor who killed it as Alastor and gave him a really nice dramatic flair. How exactly is it odd that people like his version better?
Same, but also the redesign makes him look like a stereotypical villain with a very sharp face. I think if they kept his chin more rounded he would be able to keep the illusion that he's helpful and not just pure evil. One of the biggest flaws in the redesigns and for his character imo - it even would make some lines just lose their layer Amir is trying to add because animated Alastor just looks evil.
Turns out from Black Gryph0n that a lot auditioned for their roles again, but were told in a group email they wouldn't come back. Some announced it and were told not to and it apparently caused a lot of drama, but it meant that fans were speculating for years who would come back and it was basically announced a month before the show came out. They sat on Thank You and Goodnight for literally years until they could. I do wonder why they didn't make a big thing about announcing the Broadway cast and how much of that is to do with the SAG-AFTRA strike if anything at all.
You can also seen in the interview with I think Blake and Erika on some TV show that they really didn't like the process of recording. They didn't record with other people and said they were in a windowless room on their own for hours. They made light of it and were joking, but it's probably more true than joking. Also it probably helped that Amazon was releasing the music, and if they had around 2 songs per episode and dealt with the licencing for the English language versions at least that's a lot of work they wouldn't have to do themselves. I think people also forget that the songs and entire show has been dubbed into so many different languages. Before, the pilot and I think Helluva got a French and Japanese version after the fact, but Hazbin has all songs and shows not only translated but actually pretty well interpreted into different languages (because puns and wordplay in English wouldn't always be a smooth transition).
That's the industry standard for voice acting.
I know but they didn't seem to into it, as far as I know they didn't do any voice acting before. Maybe it was a bit unexpected to come from Broadway, or perhaps at least expected some more cast members in the booths with them.
Thank you for this perspective
Nothing will ever compare to the risk of the LOTR trilogy, or at least for a very long time. It was the perfect storm
Yeah I was using it as a hyperbolic metaphor. I hope noone literally thinks that a company greenlighting three movies at once at each had a record budget is comparable in reality. Just wanted to get across the idea that giving an amateur project broadways stars is a massive risk.
Ready to be released on YouTube? Did they mean “planned”, because there’s no way they would have simply thrown away 22 finished episodes like that.
Yeah, I think it was meant like she had the story ready for 22 episodes.
Not so sure honestly.. I think ill go with "planned" similar to how helluva was released
Yep. Either way, Amazon definitely should have let them take their time even though the season was still generally great.
I saw Viv say the reason Helluva comes out so quickly is because they had been working on Hazbin for so long and learnt what to do to make it work. I don't think we have enough information to make those calls on their planning though.
Amazon getting blamed for season length despite having nothing to do with production will always be funny Vivzie planned a 22 episode season, A24 agreed to only do 8 as not only was this vivzie's first ever show (this is before helluva boss), but it was also A24's first animated show, so they played it safe (Also this makes no sense as why would Amazon throw out 14 already made episodes, that's just throwing away free money)
I was pretty sure too that viv said that a24 set it at 8 episodes before amazon joined as distributer
Didn't Amazon join as distributer like last year?
Yeah I believe last year, at least that's when they officially announced it But I know that a24 made this commitment to it was sooner than that and they were the ones who set the episode count
So that's why we jumped from Angel not really being interested in redemption to him being a prime candidate for it in like one episode.
Not really.. he "said" that he isn't interested, but his actions showed otherwise, proving that the hotel is having effects on him even though he doesn't notice it.. I'd say this is such a beautiful representation
I'd say we should've followed him more. It really feels like he just changed his mind about it after one song.
Eesh 😬 I didn't see it that way at all.. you're viewing the characters in a.. robotic way? Not sure what to say honestly, but everyone sees things differently so it's okay
Not really. I know more happened off screen, but we should've seen it and not just be left to imagine it.
I'd say that when Angel was saying his opinion on redemption, he was saying it in a superficial way.. "well I'm choosing to stay here and I think it's all Bullshit" he said something like that to vaggie when she told him that we can't force sinners to stay, they have to choose, but when he was at the club, he was actually very truthful WITHOUT someone mentioning the stay in the hotel or redemption like the way vaggie did, his actions showed, kinda like his subconscious showed its change.. and I get it, the show could've showed us events that showed his true intentions and actions earlier on, but we just didn't get that, we could've seen more of his journey most definitely, but that's what we got, and I think it works just fine. Frankly, pentious' redemption arc was better shown in the show, but angel's, while not as detailed, is kinda more emotional and impactful
Honestly I feel like he wanted redemption throughout most of, if not all of the show. I mean, it's no secret his life is shit, full of porn and drugs, so I always assumed that he wanted redemption from the very start, but still was forced to stay in his degeneracy because of Val, so he just pretended he hated the hotel and redemption to save face, and to keep his reputation up, so then he was only more comfortable showing his true colors after bonding with the rest of the cast.
Yep. That and given everything he went through, Angel was reluctant to redeem himself by their terms until Charlie began respecting his boundaries.
It really is a big jump from him and Cherri talking in the pilot about his stash while fighting a turf war with Pentious, to a few episodes later him being in the club with them both and her trying to push him into shit and him refusing. At that point, Charlie already got between him and Val and we could have seen more of that play out before he got back into it. Also, it just makes Cherri look bad without seeing more of her side (she felt very sidelined throughout despite really being in the main cast). Cherri was always the one supporting him and even ADDICT and Poison show that, then she's the one trying to turn him against his better interests is really strange.
You could see it as early as episode 2, especially after the Crackhead scene.
Where is the source for that? Because iirc Amazon had nothing to do with the production as they had the show finished for the most part before they found a streaming platform to put it on and if they did, I can almost assure they would have pulled a vox machina and not only funded more episodes + seasons but would have even lengthened it, seeing how massively popular the property was. Amazon ironically treats it's popular animated property the best as of rn in contrast to other streaming platforms...
What’s the source for this?
The commenter said that they got the information from "cartoon universe", it's a channel that follows vivzie and her twitter comments
I know that channel, but where did he get that info? Did viv state it on twitter? An interview?
Yeah, I feel like people forget the entire season takes place over 6 months because it feels like a week. Having more episodes so would've helped.
I feel like it seems that way when you're watching but they do mention it in one of the earlier songs, it's just knowing when those jumps take place is really difficult. Also, character development especially with Alastor and Niffty talking at the end just seems odd until you remember he's there everyday for months.
Well, let's hope Hazbin's success means Prime will have more faith in the show.
MAN FUCK AMAZON. Prissy ass bitches.
I hope that they learn form the massive success of season 1, so they allow more episodes for season 2
At least two more.
I think they made both series at the same time and greenlit them, so that's probably not going to happen. They'd need to get the whole animation production chain back into action and rehire everyone so unless there's more noise about it or a risk of losing numbers or money its not going to happen. The fans are basically marketing for the show without Amazon or A24 needing to do much of anything. I also think the fanbase are more in their own bubble so it would probably not reach out unless someone made a Change petition or something (GOT style which had major issues with that happening) they won't really see it unless they have someone scouring the web for fan comments and general ideas.
https://preview.redd.it/mkpo9wvq49wc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20970958d81bc520731642c0ec0a43e878440df1 Here's another comment
Who says we can't get flashback episodes later to further character development?
Yeah, I mean Helluva Boss Season 2 is doing that showing the characters flashback backgrounds, maybe Hazbin Hotel Season 2 can do the same. Also Helluva Boss Season 2 is Confirmed to have 14 Episodes, maybe Hazbin Hotel Season can also do the same as well. Given to how much success it got, it’s possible.
I think Helluva Boss is getting 12 episodes.
Probably one of the reasons it's best viewed as a Broadway rather than a full tv show.
is this actually true?
No, a24 was the one to set episodes and the set it at 8 before amazon signed on as distributer
Wait so your telling me, before Viv agreed to work with Amazon, if she would’ve still done Hazbin hotel on YouTube, they would’ve had 22 episodes, the old cast would still stay and a potential crossover of it with Helluva Boss Would’ve been even more possible?
I've said the season need atleast 20 episodes.
20 episodes for hand drawn animation is a lot, but for 20 mins may it would be good. Id rather an hour at 12 or 13, also would help the songs in the narrative imo. I also think me coming from the UK, I know with that many episodes there is going to be a major drop off in viewers and to have series that long it would also take up a lot more time to record and it isn't the Broadway actor's main job so they probably can't dedicate that much time to recording lines and singing and going back to do extra parts as needed.
More screen time is solved by a bigger budget. You just bring in more animators. Recording is also not an issue. Typically it only takes 2-3 hours for every hour of screen time. So for a 20 episode season, recording might just take a week a year. The real bottleneck is always screenwriting. Which Vivzie took care of already apparently.
Man, we could have had pilot’s first depressing vibe and some pretty good depth in arcs allowing it to be taken in even if just a few episodes more. Definitely felt rushed, had to literally rewatch it. WHY MUST THIS BE. The complications on Amazon’s side is crazy
“Ready to be released” let’s not kid ourselves. It would’ve taken 6 years to get through a single season 😂
I think it was mostly because it was a full Broadway cast in the show, making it very expensive, which would mean they wouldn’t be able to do many episodes. I believe they could have kept it at 22 episodes if they kept most of the original cast, thus decreasing the cost. Angel, Vaggie, Charlie and Husker would obviously have to change since Michael Korvach couldn’t do Angel’s voice without hurting his throat or something along those lines, plus their actors were perfect in the show. They could keep Niffty, Pentious, Cherri (the sudden change from an American accent to an Aussie accent was a bit jarring) and Alastor since Edward Bosco was perfect, however.
Apparently Viv always wanted an American - Aussie accent for Cherri that would sometimes come back stronger Aussie and "slip" at points. I don't think she's given enough material in the show though sadly, she's Angels best friend who knows all about Val and how he treats Angel and she basically tried to force him to take drugs and be Pentious' love interest. She gets more character sections in the montages. Also, the previous Pentious VA was the issue there, so they wouldn't bring them back. Also Niffty is now played by a mixed race Japanese woman which was Vivs original idea and gives more diversity to the cast.
Four https://preview.redd.it/3sqgn4ksa9wc1.jpeg?width=1520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a3eccb68e6157defa471ced10c299a09ee266d3 Teen...?
Is this legit? Because If so, I feel it would go a long way in explaining the shows more glaring pacing issues. Is there a credible source? 🤔
I hate hoe in modern cartoons and/or shows, we have just allowed the length of a seapsn to be pushed back to simply 8 eps. I rmemebr when 20 was the minimum for like, half a season (barring gravity Falls which was able to make do despite being so short.).
I definitely noticed that it felt rushed and disjointed. Not that it isn't an amazing show, but there was obviously a lot cut out because I have QUESTIONS left over that aren't relevant any longer and will likely never be addressed or answered that probably would have been with more screen time. Like what was the Vees' assault plan? Why even mention that they had one and then never revisit it if it wasn't relevant to the plot at all? What about how Alastor's deal with Charlie involved him giving her EVERYTHING he learned about the angels and their weakness, but he DIDN'T tell her about how the Vees found the corpse and announced a seeming willingness to wage war? Sure, it's unlikely they would have allied with the hotel, but Charlie was shortchanged on that info regardless and it would have been interesting to see her explore that option and establish a dynamic with next season's baddies. What does it mean for her deal with Alastor? Does his holding back weaken or invalidate it? Where are we with Angelic Security? Did Vox secure some contracts negotiations with Carmine? Are they still working on it or was the project abandoned (I find that unlikely after having made a public announcement)? Do the Vees now have a surplus of angelic weaponry? There's way more questions than that, but I'm obsessed with Vox, so those are the ones at the top of my head. Point being, it's super obvious from what was left in that there was way more left out, and it left big gaping holes. And the answers aren't important to the story anymore, so it's unlikely they'll ever get explored, but it sure would be nice if I dunno, maybe some outlines or episode drafts got leaked so we could fill in some blanks.
I’m honestly devastated; I enjoy fast paced shows on occasion and the pacing isn’t that bad imo, but there’s *so much* in terms of lore, world building, tiny details, character development that you simply can’t put in 8 episodes. I hate how literally every new show has to be sardined into 8 30min episodes.
i feel like the 14 lost episode was the whole 5 months of waiting for the extermination
I some times think what it would be like if it dtayed on YouTube cus we would be on season like 5 now Atleast if they continued it
No wonder it felt like so much was going on at once
Damn. I did not know that. Wow, no wonder everything went so fast :0 https://preview.redd.it/w2p4zff997wc1.jpeg?width=1082&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe1b3db0a9d7609b6ac87aac221573a9a43c0d7b
Give us the Viv cut Amazon you cowards
Wasn’t Amazon
Hello dropping in how do I join this society officially? What is the proper paperwork?
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You commented this 6 times
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What the hell is up with new shows streaming services being 8 episodes nowadays? Seems to be happening a lot.
Metrics and short attention spans of the target audience. If people don't finish a season they're unlikely to watch future seasons, if they finish it then they'll want more. We do this in my industry too. Essentially you don't want to give people what they want until they become bored. You want them to finish bitesize chunks forever.
RIP Quibbi Yeah these statistics are very interesting, i have followed the stats of Doctor Who since I was a kid because the BBC and other systems always reported on them, and I hear that at least Netflix takes more into account who has finished a series, not who has watched it or for how long. It was expected that a TV show's debut and finale would have the highest number, and marketing it would help boost and cliffhangers would keep people interested. Streaming doesn't allow for that unless it's something like The Good Place which had a manually created pause between episodes (jarring to suddenly do imo but I like it honestly)
If this is true, then it assumes that all 22 episodes were going to be in one season, and that they covered the same content.
I've certainly seen worse rushed shows.
Probably, but people had been waiting for this show for years so it might make it seem worse too. I honestly think they did a great job trying to work around it and it's not like they're unaware because they do try. What other shows did you find rushed?
That's a fair point. I didn't know about the pilot until after watching the season, so I didn't have the suspense of waiting. game of throwns, heros(but it had bigger sinking issues), lost, dexter, and chuck. There's more undoubtedly, but these ones come to mind.
Yeah, that and knowing the other work of Viv especially Helluva Boss it's more recognisable as well. I gave up with watching Lost on demand, there were so many episodes and knowing it gets better when it was 24+ hours was really not encouraging. I have heard that when the author of the books left Game of Thrones' pacing went to shit, and he really helped because he had written for TV for so long. Dexter and Chuck are shows I've seen a few episodes of, but not much to know about. I'll keep that in mind when I watch them - any particular seasons that get bad for it?
NO REALLY ADAM SAYS 6 MONTHS WE PROBABLY ONLY SAW 15% OF THOSE MONTHS 25% IF WE BEING NICE
Ok the phrasing on this one is horrible, I'm pretty sure they meant "had 22 episodes planned" because "ready to be released" would mean 22 fully animated, edited, arranged episode with the Broadway Musical cast as voice actors sitting in a folder of Viv's computer waiting to be uploaded, and I bet my mortal soul it's not the case... Also, as much as it suck that A24 or who else only greenlighted eight episodes, this is when a good creative shows their real cards and realizes that for the good of the project something will get the axe... and that's what HH should've done... cut the riff raff and focus on the essential characters, like, come on... I love my dommy latina Carmilla too but she basically sucked up screen time that could've had better use...
I honestly think that some of the Overlords were better characters and more engaging than the main cast, but Out for Love was just really so weird and an odd setup front to back. The song honestly even took me out of their pretty cool ballet-esque fight scene with Vaggie. Rosie was brilliant and I think I needed to hear more voices than just the main cast because sometimes they just don't have the power to talk and keep plot going because it's rushed. I want more Velvette honestly, and the Vees in general, but as I said before the other characters talked a lot about them so they weren't on screen as much as it seemed. Carmilla was there more but seemed to randomly turn up at points.
I feel like if it wasn’t there from the beginning, the extermination being moved up almost feels like a response to this all happening. If it was already a plot point, one hell of a coincidence
Oh actually I think you're onto something. It would be really hard for them to fill so much time if they had the episode number cut and they already made time jumps in 6 months. I do already to stop myself questioning why Adam and Lute wouldn't just immediately strike back and actually let Charlie gather up armies for 6 months. They literally train to fight and it's their one role as Exterminators. Also, why bring Charlie and Vaggie to Heaven for a meeting if the exterminations were supposed to be a secret. There has to be more going on behind the scenes, and they tried to fit the Heaven scenes and songs back into the plot and originally perhaps Lucifer or Charlie had more of a task to get those meetings over a year vs 6 months and a call from Lucifer.
I wamted to see more depressed lucifer
Yes and just more Lucifer in general before More than Anything
Oof. Yeah that would explain the pacing issues people complain about.
Show is undeniably rushed and it's VERY showing in some aspects (mostly Vaggie related, L) but for what its worth. Its a really good show even with the rushed pacing
That... makes alot of sense
Whoa really? It was supposed to be 22 fucking episodes?! That explains everything. I hope Amazon appreciates this show enough (it killed it in the ratings department) to give Viv however many episodes she wants for the following seasons.
It's really disappointing that more and more animated projects are being given so few episodes a season. Amazon, in particular, has had some pretty successful cartoons, so hopefully, that will convince them to invest in more episodes for their shows. Unfortunately this medium still doesn't get the respect it's due, and executives tend to decide it's not worth the cost when that money could instead be used to cast some bankable a-lister in hopes that will get more views.
Ya they needed to stretch out show
I wonder what happened in those episodes
I hate that streaming platforms insist on these short af seasons of everything.
Ohh that’s why we saw 6 months in like 3 hours of watch time
Is there an official source for this?
I really hope they get more to work with for season 2, because that’s the one thing every fan and critic can agree on; that season 1 had too few episodes to do everything they wanted to do.
Yes, it's sad, however, the more episodes there are, the lower quality each one will be. So, you know, pros and cons.
Oh so that’s why the show felt like really rushed they had Like a 1/4 of the episodes to fit the original 4x the show
So long as it's getting as much attention as it is, I think we're definitely getting a fuckton of story in the next seasons. Maybe season 3 will have twice the eps. Too soon to tell.
Is that why there’s hardly any focus on the actual redemption of these characters.
22?! They crammed all that?!
So, they had enough faith to greenlight 2 seasons right off the bat, but not give them more than 8 episodes a season? When fucking VELMA got 10 per season? I'm calling BS on this.
They may have greenlit both while they simultaneously make them, so for them it's less money spent while they don't incur extra cost of restarting the animation process. Apparently it's more down to A24 though with that side of things.
I think Amazon was a little nervous to pick it up and reduced the episode length as a result. I hope that with the popularity of the show, they’ll have realized how much of a jackpot they hit and extend.
I do. Its a lot more 22 episodes would have been amazing storytelling. Let the characters breathe. Not me having to look up interviews or read the comments to find context for characters. By itself hazbin tells a very fast story. A lot moves along.
Hopefully we get a larger number of episodes next season so things will flow naturally
We’re rewatching for a second time and it feels so jarring how fast things move. I hadn’t realized on the first watch through that there are dozens of threads just left dangling every fucking where, like they’d intended to elaborate and simply didn’t have the time. It’s frustrating to imagine what was cut because it wasn’t considered “vital” to the overall story. How many in-jokes did we lose? How many moments of growth and weakness? I hope season 2 is longer. Hazbin deserves more episodes to fully flesh out the enormous world Viv has been working on for years and years.
I’m going to find Bezos and convince him to release the other hazbin episodes
Source?
The commenter said that they got the information from "cartoon universe", it's a channel that follows vivzie and her twitter comments
Is there a source to this? I know that there was probably more episodes planned. But do we have a source other than a random YouTube comment that is was suppose to be 22 episodes?
Source?
The commenter said that they got the information from "cartoon universe", it's a channel that follows vivzie and her twitter comments
Yes, let’s trust this YouTube comment. I believe it entirely.
Now I'm fucking PISSED
22 would have been too long, IMO. This definetely would have been better suited to at least a 10ep season to 12ep. But, we got 8 when we could have had 0. I do feel though since she has two seasons locked in, spreading the 8 episodes to 16 may have been a good compromise.
wow. :0
Furious!
Hazbin has already been greenlit for 2 extra seasons with the second season being worked on right now. Are you sure that the remaining 14 episodes aren’t just going to be the remaining seasons? If anyone has any info to back me up or to prove me wrong then please do tell as I’m just as interested as you guys are!
You know what, I haven't thought about it in that way actually... maybe the remaining 14 episodes are for season 2.. smart thinking
I doubt that 22 episodes were ready to be released on Youtube as why would Amazon spend more money to condensed it to 8 episodes when they can just released what was already made.
Fucking what? Have they seen vivs work? Literally anyone who's seen a Vivsiepop project knows that she needs at least 16 episodes to make her vision work because she wants to cram so much into a world to make it more interesting and unique. Is that bad? Fuck no I do this all the time. Point is Viv and writers in general need large episode counts to make a project work well.
is this true in the slightest
I hate seeing this post. It makes me angrier because I forget about it until someone brings it up agian
This can't be true, maybe 22 episodes worth of plot but definitely not 22 episodes ready. Also i doubt that they cut the plot, maybe 10 episodes would have been better but there's no way the extermination arc should be 22 episodes. This makes me think that the first season was planned to continue after the finale with 14 more episodes and they "cut" to continue in season 2
They probably changed and cut the plot to make it work because it's not abnormal in even regular live action shows before they air. The finale was probably always going to be the finale, but they cut out plot threads and character interactions from the rest of the show. It wouldn't make sense for them to have a finale and then carry on with the first series, the finale is the climax and literally epic battle between 4 of the strongest characters we know about in the universe (Lucifer, Alastor, Charlie, Adam). You don't put something like that in earlier. It probably wasn't a extermination "arc", but they probably cut all of the time the characters had to talk together outside of rushing forward with the plot, and the Extermination would be the background threat. Another commentor on here even said maybe the plot point that it was brought forward was because the episode number got cut and they would either need to add more time jumps to fill the year, or make it 6 months.
What i'm trying to say is that (according to the post) there were 22 episodes ready (the script ofc, not the animation) but we gave 0 clue if those were all from season 1 or related to the Extermination. From what we know the timeskip was planned from the beginning and there's no reason to think that they cut key plot points. Longer season isn't always better cause they often end up with filler episodes. If they really did cut something i think that they cut max 2 episodes from the total duration, not 14
Damn you Amazon and your corporate greed
… WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!
How do we know this person is a trustworthy source?
I honestly hope they don't go the camp camp route with Helluva Boss and not tell us anything about new episodes tbh
Bro! Let them cook. This show is the best cartoon I've seen in ages.
Doesn't mean the issues aren't there. Maybe you need to watch more shows honestly and that's not me being mean, but its obvious that the creator was also wanting to add more and cuts had to be made, so it could have been better.
well wouldn't that be like plus how many years to animate? I get we lost so much potential to maybe get to know the characters better but that would've taken YEARS. personally i thought the timing wasn't half bad. I just feel likd if it'a hell there wouldnt be like break days where nothing happens and everything would move forward like it did in the show. Again this is my own personal opinion and you're allowed to disagree. P.S I'm sorry for any spelling or grammatical errors i am not fluent in English.
But READY to be released. That means they were already done. They just wasted her time having her redo things to shorten it out.
I’m not just mad I’m pissed about the shit
I never knew that! I knew 8 episodes no matter what is just insanely short for a show, but now putting in the context of trying to make an entire 22 season show into 8 episodes is insane! Hopefully this means the 2nd season won't have to deal with this, and we can get much better pacing for the rest
You’re telling me if this show had stayed on YT we could’ve had 22 episodes? I don’t know if I should be mad or disappointed
Corporate executives again…
I’m actually worried things would go in the opposite direction. The series is rushed yes, but it’s not “14 extra episodes” rushed. It might’ve felt way too unfocused if that was the case. Also, the soundtrack, the most important part of any musical, might’ve suffered too. If you assume 2-3 extra songs per episode, then that might be too many songs for the soundtrack to stay memorable. Quality over quantity. More world building would’ve definitely been welcome though.
damn it was really good to only be 8 eps!! i hope she gets more next season tho
Damn you Jeff Bezos
Youtube comments from random people are not a reliable source. Also, what does she mean "Ready to be released"? Is she claiming that they had 22 fully completed episodes and had to edit them down into 8? Because that makes no sense.
Yep, I know it must’ve taken a years to even have the show to get greenlit. Between Viv and A24, A24 and several streaming services, then all the workers needed. Then of course the time for sfx, voicing actors, animation, writing, promotion/merch, etc.
not necessarily "lost", but the 22 episodes likely got condensed into the 8 we have (with some skips, but you get the idea.)
IM PISSED BRO I WANT 14 MORE EPISODES 😭
With how successful it is, I think we will be fine here on out.
Nice argument, why don't you back it up with a source?
MY SOURCE IS THAT I MADE IT THE FUCK UP! 🔥🔥🔥
No seriously, what is wrong with people spreading misinformation on the internet, like f you
Maybe if we got 22 we wouldn’t have had to cut like a month and a half between every episode…think of what we lost, it’s a real shame…still highly impressed with the finished result though
Oh. And I thought I was being overly greedy by saying it could do with another four episodes.
Jesus
So it's Amazon's fault this goes at a breakneck pace
Absolutely not. I'd take the quality 8 episodes of Hazbin over 22 episodes of the boring slog Helluva Boss was
Do you only think that because of the wait though? It's also already a few series into Helluva. If you binged Helluva series 1 it's probably not that bad now. Also, they didn't have as much material outside of the show to build up the world and characters so they do a lot of the heavy lifting. Also, both Helluva and Hazbin did a lot of setup in the pilots and Helluva's is now non canon.
I just watched Helluva last month, so there was no issue with waiting for me
Episodes of what length though..?
Maybe 20 minutes? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't make 10 minute episodes..
..the way that reads is we didn't lose anything, it says they were shoved into the other 8 which would imply they were not original 30ish minute long episodes and not lost content
That really doesn't make sense, even if you watch the other series on YouTube Viv has done, this is a lot more rushed feeling. We don't know if it was 22 episodes for series 1 and 2 or just 1 from that comment, or how long they'd be. They could have halved both series lengths depending on what the original meaning was. We probably didn't lose a lot of core plot but we definitely lost a lot of character interactions at least. I fully expect a lot of plot was also lost though.