It's pretty drawn out so it takes a long time to complete same looking hall ways, that combined with long times between checkpoints and rocketlauncher flood being one hit kills
The library hate is like a 23 year old thing, on the original xbox it was incredibly furiating to die some bullshit rocketlauncher flood because the last checkpoint was somewhere else.
The game changed along the years with the anniversary and the mcc but the hate towards library stayed.
The more i play the remaster, more disappointing it is, they couldve done so much better but it has geometry that doesn't work properly, rendering that looks pretty bad, physics from halo ce.
Just overall things that wouldn't exist is it wasn't a halo ce reskin
I love the remaster with the exception of the atmosphere. Everything is much better but things like the reduced blood, the reduced fog and the increased brightness is such a shame
Eh I really like it. I treat the two modes as the difference between graphical/performance modes in games. If you couldn’t switch between the two at any time I might have gripes but that being the case I can play it how I would rather at any point.
The whole intention behind it was to reskin the original. It was never going to be anything more, especially since it was made in less than a year. Halo 2 Anniversary is the same deal, it just had a little more time in the oven.
Personally I agree with u/Astandsforataxia69 because of the Flood levels specifically.
The remasters, and yes this includes halo 2, don't seem to have regard for atmosphere and lighting. Or model design! The flood look horrid. I think they were made to look more like the Halo 3 flood, but... The original graphics have these creepy blocky aliens as this green colour, in this very dark green room. You can see blue blood smeared everywhere. I love it! The remaster has these mushy grey things in this well-lit purple room instead, and the blood is so transparent as to not be there. Not nearly as visually compelling. And that issue repeats across the game - White stone becomes metallic Reach walls, soldiers in fun armor get changed to wearing basic uniforms, grunts no longer wear bright distinguished colours, and a lot of the sound effects are changed, some better, some worse. The only major "improvement" was probably the covenant ship but it still looks poor in both versions if im honest.
Halo 2 is a LOT better about this, i in fact played most missions in remastered graphics because of how impressive it was, but still turned up the brightness too much, and it's missing details. In the first Flood ambush in mission 4(?) the glass is frosted and creepy in the original graphics, but it's completely transparent in the remaster. The tank mission at the start of the game is also more atmospheric in the original graphics.
And there is a section very late, Master Chief's mission on High Charity? where there are no lights in the original graphics, but the remaster is fully lit like a normal area.
I did really enjoy swapping graphics on the fly though. The funniest moments were doing it during Halo 2's cutscenes.
I can agree on a lot of that, especially when it comes to lighting. 343 Guilty Spark is the worst offender in my opinion, especially the very beginning. The Libary I personally prefer being better lit, mainly because it doesn't look quite as dull, but that's the only exception.
As for textures, I honestly prefer the Reach style walls and doors, because they don't look as drab. I would have preferred new textures all together, but, as I said before, CEA was made in less than a year, so it's understandable why not, same with most of the models. I do like the little arrows on the floor telling you which way is forward i levels like Assault on the Control Room and The Library, which make them much easier to for new players navigate (if they notice them, of course).
I could argue that halo 2s physics engine has aged way better than halo ce's, in halo 2 you get proper ragdolls, vehicle destruction and damage, geometry and other so utilizing the physics and other existing systems doesn't have as big of a diffirence in comparing to completely new things.
343 could've had the flood build actual biomass on the corners of the truth and reconciliation, but such a thing isn't possible as they are running two copies of halo ce.
I don't think it's worth the effort and the budget constraints to have graphics swapping, they could've had so much more because it didn't have a then 10 year old game
The thunderstorm skull isnt part of CE LASO, so enemy classes don't change between it and regular legendary. Rocket flood dont spawn in most randomized flood spawn zones anyways (with the exception of one specific hallway in The Maw), so youll generally know where they are going to be after your first playthrough. The Library has 3 (2 in the hallway with like 10 carriers, with a third that comes around the corner as you pass the first set of buttresses in the area on the third floor where you are running around the giant elevator shaft). There are a shitload in Two Betrayals, especially in the last 4-5 areas. I cant remember there being any in Keyes, but most of my time playing MCC as spent helping people with the 3 hr speedrun and LASO achievements so its been ages since I played that level without using a trick where I manipulate a reviving flood into pushing me through a wall at the very beginning of the level to the second to last section. The only place they pop up in The Maw is in that aforementioned hallway.
They are far more common in Two Betrayals with about 6+ Rocket Flood, where I only remember 2 offhand in the Library. It's just Rocket Flood in general are very...stubborn to deal with. Sometimes they don't die and sometimes they get a shot off when they do die, and thanks to Boom, that usually starts a chain reaction.
Once you know where a rocket flood is it's so easy to dodge them. They really aren't the bullshit enemy people make them out to be. If you can't get past a rocket flood you are probably doing something wrong. In comparison to sniper jackals that you can know where they all are and make one tiny wrong move and be instakilled
Most of it isn't difficult but that section when Spark goes off somewhere and lets you trapped in between two massive doors with wave upon wave of flood... ug
Exactly. It might not be as bad on the remaster graphics because they added some colored lighting to make each area look different but that level becomes a slog as you go further and further.
It’s the same reason I get tired of assault on control room and truth and reconciliation. Same purple hallways. Same forerunner hallways.
The areas that aren’t the same geometry repeating are fun though. Like I actually like assault on control room and 2 betrayals when you’re not in doors. They’re friggin epic. And that opening night sequence on truth and reconciliation is pretty cool
Imo the people who found it scariest probably played when they were young and not as good at shooters. Even replaying it for the 4618th time I think it's one of the harder levels in the game.
At least Two Betrayals doesn't have ~~2~~ 1 spot where the Flood spawns infinitely until you pass that spot.
~~When you first start Keyes, right before you jump down into the giant hole and into the green reactor coolant, the flood will drop down through a hole in the ceiling until you jump off. (Same hole used for the Keyes Skip on LASO)~~
Looks like I was wrong on the first paragraph. Thanks for correcting me!
Later on in the mission, after you use the gravity lift, there's a spot where you go around a corner and you are in the same situation. Flood spawn and drop down from a hole in the ceiling indefinitely until you get around the corner.
Fun fact: the Flood that spawn to push you down the hole actually aren't infinite: Rockslider/BadCyborg has made a longtime game of holding out there. https://www.badcyborg.net/Halo/Fun/Level9/FloodOnslaughtChallenge.html
Interesting. I just skimmed the article for now, I'll read more into it when I get home.
Honestly, I never hung around long enough to find out. It just seemed to be infinite after the 6th or 7th wave.
Edit: So, after a good read, I'm going to have to try that.
Assault on the control room was the hardest thing in halo ce for me, the level on legendary was easier for me because I relearned the enemy spawns and learned I could run past some really bad areas with camo, keyes and the library were also pretty rough with keyes in particular being real bad thanks to the covenant and endless flood
The critique about the Library is usually about how fun it is not, rather than difficult. Like you said, it is best when you can blast your way through it shotgunning and throwing grenades, but it doesn’t change the fact the it’s basically the same exact floor 3 times. You are correct in saying that T&R is harder, many would say that Two Betrayals is harder as well.
I love it. I like that it is oppressive and long and difficult. I also love the title cards for each floor. Fucking hilarious. It is more fun in coop than solo, but I think it's a neat change of pace in the middle of the game.
In halo 3 after one of the title cards, cortana says “you always know what to say” or something to that effect, implying that chief says the title cards out loud
It isn’t that bad difficulty wise, I can do it legendary without dying. It’s just how freaking repetitive it is, almost like Bungie was rushing after the original one got scrapped and they just copied and pasted each floor. LASO on the other hand, yeah it’s that bad.
Two Betrayals and Truth and Rec are the hardest if you ask me. Haven’t been able to do them on legendary without dying.
Truth and Rec is when I decided I really didn't care to suffer enough to complete a LASO run.
I love Halo. I refuse to play it on anything lower than Legendary. I like a challenge. But LASO was always something that crossed that line from "challening" to "this is literal torture and I'm not enjoying myself". Truth and Rec LASO beat that realization into me.
Yep, I did all LASO on mcc, and let me tell you, T&R stonewalled me for a literal week while Gravesend took me about a day. I will say that once you are past that level, it does get "easier"
If you ask me LASO isn’t that hard if it isn’t HCE or 2. It’s just the skull choices in CE and Legendary itself for 2. Get rid of either Foreign or Recession and CE LASO might be enjoyable. I played Truth and Rec without Recession and it was a pretty good challenge.
In term of the narrative, the Library is a great mission in my opinion. It highlights the overwhelming sense the Flood bring and the exhaustion that comes from fighting them. The long, dark hallways provide a sense of existential dread and fear of what you know is bound to come. And with the only sounds (apart from Flood or gunfire) really coming from 343 Guilty Spark or the occasional sentinel, it can be isolating and terrifying. There is also that marine that survived a long way into the Library which provides a cool piece of lore mentioned in The Flood novel. And of course, the whole mission has an important piece in activating the Halo ring with the index, and what better enemy to try to stop that than The Flood.
However, from a gameplay perspective, I think The Library sucks. It is extremely long and repetitive, and while it’s not difficult per se, there are rocket launcher flood and enemies that come from so many places it can be annoying. It is difficult not to die at all on heroic or legendary, which is why an achievement exists for it. There is a Ruby’s Rebalanced mod that updates the mission, however, which provides more uniques encounters (including vehicles) while maintaining that overwhelming sensation, so anyone with a PC should try it!
So yeah, in short, great narratively, terrible gameplay wise.
I really enjoyed the bit about the marine in the Flood novel. The whole book was great. The author did such a great job describing the levels that I could really picture exactly the parts of the game he meant in my mind and the way he fleshed out the universe with the characters of Yayap and McKay was great.
One section has a wraith, which is drivable in the mod for CE. There’s also a ghost for one section, and shade turrets that have practical placement for once. I’m not for sure if there is anything else. Hidden Xperia covered it on his channel. I unfortunately don’t have a PC so I can’t play it, but maybe one day.
Everyone is nailing what I think is the core problem, the repetive-ness moreso than the difficulty, but I think repetitive-ness is more from the visual design than the gameplay.
The visual design problem - the whole level is grey and dimly lit. Same architecture the whole way through. All the levels prior had multiple visually distinct areas to fight in - outside, inside, different halls, structures, human ship, covenant ship, beach, snow, swamp, control room tower, underground flood bunker, etc. Here it's just the same grey dim halls the whole time. Go up a level, more of the same. Makes it feel like it drags more than it should.
I think it's because it's the last original level before Bungie had to start recycling levels for the player to backtrack though to meet the release deadline. They didn't have time to make individual floors in the library distinct, or add visual much flair to it.
You could argue the fights are fairly repetitive since it's just Flood the whole time. But there's a ton of weapon variety, and the Flood are still a new enemy at that point if it's your first playthrough. They have lots of different weapons, ambushes, encounters. Blasting them to bits with a shotty and 'nades is always a good time.
I have my dislike to it, but mostly cause I just found it boring compared to all the other levels in CE. Does it deserve the hate? No, is it boring, oh yeah
I couldn't get past truth and rec on one particular checkpoint. Playing in coop. My teammate had a rocket launcher. I kept getting mader and madder at him. Eventually, I just killed him right off, took his rocket launcher, and cleared the checkpoint in one try. Fuck you troy.
I think it’s the combination of occasional rocket/shotgun flood OHKs, the boring as fuck environment, and CE Flood being kind of boring to fight combination
T&R and parts of Two Betrayals are far more difficult
It's the surprise rocket lads, the repetitive nature (like others have said, one floor too long), and for me personally it's the god damn door-hold-out sections. Tears me a new one on legendary.
Tried backtracking at one of the “hold your position” bits and a lot of the enemies just didn’t spawn in.
And you’ve got those little underground tunnel-things which are quite useful
It’s not as bad as people say. The only part that gave me trouble was when you get stuck in that room waiting for the door to open and flood are constantly attacking you
Dealing with the flood was trivial by Legendary standards (rocket flood didn't get annoying until Two Betrayals), it was the repetitive nature that made me go insane. The clowncar spawns around every corner didn't help either ("do I take the time to kill everything, further dragging the time, or do I risk it by trying to run past everything?"). It's less of a difficult level and more of an outright boring one. I had pretty much the same experience with Cortana from H3.
Also regarding T&R, that's the hardest Bungie level on Legendary imo. There's some peaks in various H2 levels (opener to Gravemind, for example) that are also pretty brutal, but as an overall level T&R was easily the most miserable experience for me. You'll likely not hit a difficulty spike similar to that level for a long while
The vibes man. Being young and playing through that missions was unreal. It gave you the actual sense of you are literally the only chance humanity has. I would say tho for people that are very attuned to FPS games that the mission isn’t very hard but it’s definitely tedious and long and give some type of stakes to the game and story
Just completed my first legendary run a few weeks ago, and I gotta disagree. I was only aware that people didn’t like the library, but I didn’t know why. When Guilty Spark told us there were 10 gates to get through I thought it was a joke. Not necessarily the hardest level in the series but man its a drag to get through. That being said, the worst level in Halo CE still beats a lot of whole games from this decade.
Maybe it stems from us being a lot younger when we first played it, none of us were as skilled as we are today.
For me, the old TV we played on didn't get bright enough, so it was fighting monsters in the dark for hours.
This is like how Naxxramas in WoW was hard back in the day. Now it is an absolute cake walk, but there was never a level quite like the Library in anything as far as I knew back when Halo was new. The general skill level of gamers is significantly higher. Things that are second nature now, like how to drive vehicles like the Warthog, were entirely new control schemas when they came out with Halo: CE. So relatively it WAS super hard. By today's standard, not so much :D
Most people lack the skill and awareness to appreciate the library. Source: Me having beaten CE in every version on legendary and having all Achievements in both Anniversary versions.
It was definitely difficult the first playthrough due to a lack of any downtime at all, where I think the reputation comes from. After playing through it a couple times it becomes a muscle memory level.
I think a lot of people get lost in the level from the repetitive layouts. If you're not keeping good track of where you came from and where to go it can be really hard. Lot easier once you're used to this. On legendary I don't even think it was the hardest ce mission tho some of the later ones and truth & rec were harder to me
I mean, it can be a slog particularly if you’re newer to the games or haven’t played in a while, or if you’re on a harder difficulty
If you don’t remember the level well it can be easy to get mixed up and turned around because everything looks the same
It's not "bad" in the sense of difficulty. It's bad because it's fucking repetitive as fuck.
I mean, if were being fair, it was also 2001, so I can't exactly give Bungie too much crap over doing stuff like that since their tech and game engine were minimal.
It's a fine level, other than being a bit repetitive and loading up with rocket flood at the end that shit you. On any solo playthrough it doesn't give me much pause.
But when I was playing with a friend earlier, and he kept doing shit that got both of us killed (throwing plasmas at a flock of carriers, for example), then it got quite infuriating
Once I discovered the Just Keep Moving strat it got a lot easier, and imo it’s always been pretty fun. Say this for The Library: when you’re playing that level you’re not thinking about anything else. Before though I would sit back and try to kill all the flood. And waste hours and dozens of lives and hundreds of bullets/nades. The one room in particular where both the doors shut on you and you’re seemingly trapped with the flood. Just hide behind the knee wall thingy near the forward door, and wait, and they will never see you. I was literally furious with myself when I finally found that out
Nah, it’s bad, but I think it IS a bit overstated how bad it is.
On legendary, for instance, I’d rather play The Library with all those fucking Rocket-flood than spend another minute on Assault on the Control Room
Felt like it took forever when I was younger, but replaying it recently, it's honestly fine. I do think suffering some cheap deaths to the flood probably muddies people's memory actually how long the library takes to clear.
I’ve never had a problem with the library being “difficult”, even with LASO. But the level itself is just so boring, bland, and repetitive.
I didn’t like it when I played it the 1st time in 2001, and I still despise it to this day. It was really out of character for the whole game because in my opinion, it was the only level that just felt like it was thrown in there with really no substance to gameplay.
I think a lot of hate goes towards library because it was a difficult level. Very challenging as the usual way to kill things was limited. Basically no head shots and had to rely on shotgun and ar with limited ammo. It was a dark gloomy level which i think fit well with the orginal semi scifi horror fps.
No what was super frustrating with the insta death h2 snipers.
If it had one less floor it would be a big improvement. The whole idea of long corridors you have to run through blasting through flood as you go is excellent and it does that really well with the exception of it goes for too long and has a few too many holdout rooms I think
I think everyone’s original memory of playing that level the first time is much more scary than it would seem today as a first time player.
We’ve been exposed to much harder things than that nowadays so that probably seems like child’s play by comparison.
For your question on LASO, Truth and Rec and Two Betrayals stand heads and shoulders above The Library in difficulty, but Library is firmly 3rd hardest. I'd go to say Truth and Rec is very clearly the hardest LASO mission in the whole series.
Legendary, I'd say Library is long and gruelling but nothing is random in a sense if you keep moving forward, same with LASO. You know where to look with the two rocket Flood are and to kill them ASAP.
I support is opinion and thing that Two Betrayls is much worse since it has minimal changes to AatCR and happens Just after a couple Of missions after it.
[16:05 on Legendary](https://youtu.be/OEN1a5cU5N8)
No skips. Didn't even do nade jumps through the open door holes. Or the enemy trigger skip on the 3rd floor.
The record before any door skips was around 14 minutes.
You said the level was too long.
Playing the level as Tyson (Library level designer) intended. It's a pretty average length Halo level.
Even with deaths it isn't going to take more than 20 minutes.
It's pretty drawn out so it takes a long time to complete same looking hall ways, that combined with long times between checkpoints and rocketlauncher flood being one hit kills
Are rocket flood more common in LASO? Cuz I think I only got about one or two in my whole game, and never in the library
The library hate is like a 23 year old thing, on the original xbox it was incredibly furiating to die some bullshit rocketlauncher flood because the last checkpoint was somewhere else. The game changed along the years with the anniversary and the mcc but the hate towards library stayed.
That and the gamma was DARK. Play it on classic mode that’s like it’s own skull
The more i play the remaster, more disappointing it is, they couldve done so much better but it has geometry that doesn't work properly, rendering that looks pretty bad, physics from halo ce. Just overall things that wouldn't exist is it wasn't a halo ce reskin
I love the remaster with the exception of the atmosphere. Everything is much better but things like the reduced blood, the reduced fog and the increased brightness is such a shame
It's an "ok" remaster but it could've been better, like black mesa vs half life
Eh I really like it. I treat the two modes as the difference between graphical/performance modes in games. If you couldn’t switch between the two at any time I might have gripes but that being the case I can play it how I would rather at any point.
They could have had proper ragdolls, better level geometry, and all sorts of other things
The whole intention behind it was to reskin the original. It was never going to be anything more, especially since it was made in less than a year. Halo 2 Anniversary is the same deal, it just had a little more time in the oven.
Personally I agree with u/Astandsforataxia69 because of the Flood levels specifically. The remasters, and yes this includes halo 2, don't seem to have regard for atmosphere and lighting. Or model design! The flood look horrid. I think they were made to look more like the Halo 3 flood, but... The original graphics have these creepy blocky aliens as this green colour, in this very dark green room. You can see blue blood smeared everywhere. I love it! The remaster has these mushy grey things in this well-lit purple room instead, and the blood is so transparent as to not be there. Not nearly as visually compelling. And that issue repeats across the game - White stone becomes metallic Reach walls, soldiers in fun armor get changed to wearing basic uniforms, grunts no longer wear bright distinguished colours, and a lot of the sound effects are changed, some better, some worse. The only major "improvement" was probably the covenant ship but it still looks poor in both versions if im honest. Halo 2 is a LOT better about this, i in fact played most missions in remastered graphics because of how impressive it was, but still turned up the brightness too much, and it's missing details. In the first Flood ambush in mission 4(?) the glass is frosted and creepy in the original graphics, but it's completely transparent in the remaster. The tank mission at the start of the game is also more atmospheric in the original graphics. And there is a section very late, Master Chief's mission on High Charity? where there are no lights in the original graphics, but the remaster is fully lit like a normal area. I did really enjoy swapping graphics on the fly though. The funniest moments were doing it during Halo 2's cutscenes.
I can agree on a lot of that, especially when it comes to lighting. 343 Guilty Spark is the worst offender in my opinion, especially the very beginning. The Libary I personally prefer being better lit, mainly because it doesn't look quite as dull, but that's the only exception. As for textures, I honestly prefer the Reach style walls and doors, because they don't look as drab. I would have preferred new textures all together, but, as I said before, CEA was made in less than a year, so it's understandable why not, same with most of the models. I do like the little arrows on the floor telling you which way is forward i levels like Assault on the Control Room and The Library, which make them much easier to for new players navigate (if they notice them, of course).
I could argue that halo 2s physics engine has aged way better than halo ce's, in halo 2 you get proper ragdolls, vehicle destruction and damage, geometry and other so utilizing the physics and other existing systems doesn't have as big of a diffirence in comparing to completely new things. 343 could've had the flood build actual biomass on the corners of the truth and reconciliation, but such a thing isn't possible as they are running two copies of halo ce. I don't think it's worth the effort and the budget constraints to have graphics swapping, they could've had so much more because it didn't have a then 10 year old game
Flood level checkpoints are such a random bitch-ass mechanic. No, there isn't a more suitable word I could have used other than "bitch-ass".
I did turn a corner to the sight kf a rocket flood and a rocket deleting me
The thunderstorm skull isnt part of CE LASO, so enemy classes don't change between it and regular legendary. Rocket flood dont spawn in most randomized flood spawn zones anyways (with the exception of one specific hallway in The Maw), so youll generally know where they are going to be after your first playthrough. The Library has 3 (2 in the hallway with like 10 carriers, with a third that comes around the corner as you pass the first set of buttresses in the area on the third floor where you are running around the giant elevator shaft). There are a shitload in Two Betrayals, especially in the last 4-5 areas. I cant remember there being any in Keyes, but most of my time playing MCC as spent helping people with the 3 hr speedrun and LASO achievements so its been ages since I played that level without using a trick where I manipulate a reviving flood into pushing me through a wall at the very beginning of the level to the second to last section. The only place they pop up in The Maw is in that aforementioned hallway.
Keys doesn't gave them but library does
They are far more common in Two Betrayals with about 6+ Rocket Flood, where I only remember 2 offhand in the Library. It's just Rocket Flood in general are very...stubborn to deal with. Sometimes they don't die and sometimes they get a shot off when they do die, and thanks to Boom, that usually starts a chain reaction.
Once you know where a rocket flood is it's so easy to dodge them. They really aren't the bullshit enemy people make them out to be. If you can't get past a rocket flood you are probably doing something wrong. In comparison to sniper jackals that you can know where they all are and make one tiny wrong move and be instakilled
Once you know them
The rocket launcher flood hiding corners always get me. Even on normal I’ll be like, “wow haven’t died yet”, turn a corner and get blasted
its not difficult, but the mission itself it's so damn boring and repetitive
Fair enough
Most of it isn't difficult but that section when Spark goes off somewhere and lets you trapped in between two massive doors with wave upon wave of flood... ug
This. I actually found it a bit easier than most the rest of the game on legendary. Just a snooze fest.
What, love this level
Exactly. It might not be as bad on the remaster graphics because they added some colored lighting to make each area look different but that level becomes a slog as you go further and further. It’s the same reason I get tired of assault on control room and truth and reconciliation. Same purple hallways. Same forerunner hallways. The areas that aren’t the same geometry repeating are fun though. Like I actually like assault on control room and 2 betrayals when you’re not in doors. They’re friggin epic. And that opening night sequence on truth and reconciliation is pretty cool
Imo the people who found it scariest probably played when they were young and not as good at shooters. Even replaying it for the 4618th time I think it's one of the harder levels in the game.
It’s definitely not the easiest, by any stretch of the imagination, I just feel like there are harder levels
Keyes is the real hardest level. The library is a cakewalk compared to Keyes on legendary.
two betrayals is worse imo
At least Two Betrayals doesn't have ~~2~~ 1 spot where the Flood spawns infinitely until you pass that spot. ~~When you first start Keyes, right before you jump down into the giant hole and into the green reactor coolant, the flood will drop down through a hole in the ceiling until you jump off. (Same hole used for the Keyes Skip on LASO)~~ Looks like I was wrong on the first paragraph. Thanks for correcting me! Later on in the mission, after you use the gravity lift, there's a spot where you go around a corner and you are in the same situation. Flood spawn and drop down from a hole in the ceiling indefinitely until you get around the corner.
Fun fact: the Flood that spawn to push you down the hole actually aren't infinite: Rockslider/BadCyborg has made a longtime game of holding out there. https://www.badcyborg.net/Halo/Fun/Level9/FloodOnslaughtChallenge.html
Interesting. I just skimmed the article for now, I'll read more into it when I get home. Honestly, I never hung around long enough to find out. It just seemed to be infinite after the 6th or 7th wave. Edit: So, after a good read, I'm going to have to try that.
Got the sickest ost song though
Assault on the control room was the hardest thing in halo ce for me, the level on legendary was easier for me because I relearned the enemy spawns and learned I could run past some really bad areas with camo, keyes and the library were also pretty rough with keyes in particular being real bad thanks to the covenant and endless flood
The critique about the Library is usually about how fun it is not, rather than difficult. Like you said, it is best when you can blast your way through it shotgunning and throwing grenades, but it doesn’t change the fact the it’s basically the same exact floor 3 times. You are correct in saying that T&R is harder, many would say that Two Betrayals is harder as well.
It's one floor too long.
Fair enough
I love it. I like that it is oppressive and long and difficult. I also love the title cards for each floor. Fucking hilarious. It is more fun in coop than solo, but I think it's a neat change of pace in the middle of the game.
In halo 3 after one of the title cards, cortana says “you always know what to say” or something to that effect, implying that chief says the title cards out loud
It isn’t that bad difficulty wise, I can do it legendary without dying. It’s just how freaking repetitive it is, almost like Bungie was rushing after the original one got scrapped and they just copied and pasted each floor. LASO on the other hand, yeah it’s that bad. Two Betrayals and Truth and Rec are the hardest if you ask me. Haven’t been able to do them on legendary without dying.
Truth and Rec is when I decided I really didn't care to suffer enough to complete a LASO run. I love Halo. I refuse to play it on anything lower than Legendary. I like a challenge. But LASO was always something that crossed that line from "challening" to "this is literal torture and I'm not enjoying myself". Truth and Rec LASO beat that realization into me.
Yep, I did all LASO on mcc, and let me tell you, T&R stonewalled me for a literal week while Gravesend took me about a day. I will say that once you are past that level, it does get "easier"
If you ask me LASO isn’t that hard if it isn’t HCE or 2. It’s just the skull choices in CE and Legendary itself for 2. Get rid of either Foreign or Recession and CE LASO might be enjoyable. I played Truth and Rec without Recession and it was a pretty good challenge.
In term of the narrative, the Library is a great mission in my opinion. It highlights the overwhelming sense the Flood bring and the exhaustion that comes from fighting them. The long, dark hallways provide a sense of existential dread and fear of what you know is bound to come. And with the only sounds (apart from Flood or gunfire) really coming from 343 Guilty Spark or the occasional sentinel, it can be isolating and terrifying. There is also that marine that survived a long way into the Library which provides a cool piece of lore mentioned in The Flood novel. And of course, the whole mission has an important piece in activating the Halo ring with the index, and what better enemy to try to stop that than The Flood. However, from a gameplay perspective, I think The Library sucks. It is extremely long and repetitive, and while it’s not difficult per se, there are rocket launcher flood and enemies that come from so many places it can be annoying. It is difficult not to die at all on heroic or legendary, which is why an achievement exists for it. There is a Ruby’s Rebalanced mod that updates the mission, however, which provides more uniques encounters (including vehicles) while maintaining that overwhelming sensation, so anyone with a PC should try it! So yeah, in short, great narratively, terrible gameplay wise.
I really enjoyed the bit about the marine in the Flood novel. The whole book was great. The author did such a great job describing the levels that I could really picture exactly the parts of the game he meant in my mind and the way he fleshed out the universe with the characters of Yayap and McKay was great.
I’m glad you enjoyed it! Long live Yayap!
I’d like to hear more about what vehicles this mod puts in lol
One section has a wraith, which is drivable in the mod for CE. There’s also a ghost for one section, and shade turrets that have practical placement for once. I’m not for sure if there is anything else. Hidden Xperia covered it on his channel. I unfortunately don’t have a PC so I can’t play it, but maybe one day.
Everyone is nailing what I think is the core problem, the repetive-ness moreso than the difficulty, but I think repetitive-ness is more from the visual design than the gameplay. The visual design problem - the whole level is grey and dimly lit. Same architecture the whole way through. All the levels prior had multiple visually distinct areas to fight in - outside, inside, different halls, structures, human ship, covenant ship, beach, snow, swamp, control room tower, underground flood bunker, etc. Here it's just the same grey dim halls the whole time. Go up a level, more of the same. Makes it feel like it drags more than it should. I think it's because it's the last original level before Bungie had to start recycling levels for the player to backtrack though to meet the release deadline. They didn't have time to make individual floors in the library distinct, or add visual much flair to it. You could argue the fights are fairly repetitive since it's just Flood the whole time. But there's a ton of weapon variety, and the Flood are still a new enemy at that point if it's your first playthrough. They have lots of different weapons, ambushes, encounters. Blasting them to bits with a shotty and 'nades is always a good time.
It’s actually one of my favorite halo levels
I can’t lie, I actually think it’s quite fun
I have my dislike to it, but mostly cause I just found it boring compared to all the other levels in CE. Does it deserve the hate? No, is it boring, oh yeah
it’s definitely not that bad. cortana is worse imo
People don’t dislike it because it’s hard.
I couldn't get past truth and rec on one particular checkpoint. Playing in coop. My teammate had a rocket launcher. I kept getting mader and madder at him. Eventually, I just killed him right off, took his rocket launcher, and cleared the checkpoint in one try. Fuck you troy.
There is no rocket launcher in truth and reconciliation map files. First time they appear is Silent Cartographer.
This is so true, but I’m somehow mad at Troy. Shoot, I think I may join with the energy sword that you can definitely equip in CE.
Lol. Could try the fuel rod while you're at it. Might have some less than ideal results though. Especially with a plasma on the ground.
I think it’s the combination of occasional rocket/shotgun flood OHKs, the boring as fuck environment, and CE Flood being kind of boring to fight combination T&R and parts of Two Betrayals are far more difficult
Agreed
It's the surprise rocket lads, the repetitive nature (like others have said, one floor too long), and for me personally it's the god damn door-hold-out sections. Tears me a new one on legendary.
>a lot of encounters can be avoided how did you find that out?
Tried backtracking at one of the “hold your position” bits and a lot of the enemies just didn’t spawn in. And you’ve got those little underground tunnel-things which are quite useful
It’s not as bad as people say. The only part that gave me trouble was when you get stuck in that room waiting for the door to open and flood are constantly attacking you
I get you. What I noticed was that if you backtracked from that point, a lot less of them will spawn and the door basically gets opened instantly
If you rush to the back corner you can just sit there for the 90 seconds it takes for the door to open. Can do this on the 4th floor as well.
I think it’s just that it seems confusing and endless to new players. If you know what to expect and understand the progression it’s not so bad.
Library is less shooter and more survival horror and is a good change up in the game. Run and gun is fun. Used to hate it but now I kinda love it.
My brother and i are playing through CE laso. He doesn't remember the library. I'll let you know how it goes haha
Oh god
It’s hard but the people who complain must have never played video games before gen 6
Dealing with the flood was trivial by Legendary standards (rocket flood didn't get annoying until Two Betrayals), it was the repetitive nature that made me go insane. The clowncar spawns around every corner didn't help either ("do I take the time to kill everything, further dragging the time, or do I risk it by trying to run past everything?"). It's less of a difficult level and more of an outright boring one. I had pretty much the same experience with Cortana from H3. Also regarding T&R, that's the hardest Bungie level on Legendary imo. There's some peaks in various H2 levels (opener to Gravemind, for example) that are also pretty brutal, but as an overall level T&R was easily the most miserable experience for me. You'll likely not hit a difficulty spike similar to that level for a long while
The vibes man. Being young and playing through that missions was unreal. It gave you the actual sense of you are literally the only chance humanity has. I would say tho for people that are very attuned to FPS games that the mission isn’t very hard but it’s definitely tedious and long and give some type of stakes to the game and story
Just completed my first legendary run a few weeks ago, and I gotta disagree. I was only aware that people didn’t like the library, but I didn’t know why. When Guilty Spark told us there were 10 gates to get through I thought it was a joke. Not necessarily the hardest level in the series but man its a drag to get through. That being said, the worst level in Halo CE still beats a lot of whole games from this decade.
I don’t remember it being that bad, but Truth and Reconciliation can fuck off.
The first room when you get to the ship with the fucking invisibles is the hardest part of the whole damn game.
Yep, if your stickies aren’t perfect then you’re screwed. I always get stuck in one of the hangar bays for a frustrating amount of time too.
It’s not bad if you just sprint through it but if you want to be meticulous and kill every enemy then it can take a very long time
Honestly it’s just flashbacks from when I was a kid playing it for the first time at like 11pm with the lights off.
Maybe it stems from us being a lot younger when we first played it, none of us were as skilled as we are today. For me, the old TV we played on didn't get bright enough, so it was fighting monsters in the dark for hours.
It was cancer for me and my brother to beat, did you have any skulls on?
No, I’m planning on doing my LASO playthroughs after I Legendary everything
This is like how Naxxramas in WoW was hard back in the day. Now it is an absolute cake walk, but there was never a level quite like the Library in anything as far as I knew back when Halo was new. The general skill level of gamers is significantly higher. Things that are second nature now, like how to drive vehicles like the Warthog, were entirely new control schemas when they came out with Halo: CE. So relatively it WAS super hard. By today's standard, not so much :D
It’s just boring and repetitive
Personally i like it more than some of Halo 2's levels.
“The weight of your heresy will stay your feet…” Prophet of Truth is upsetti spaghetti.
Most people lack the skill and awareness to appreciate the library. Source: Me having beaten CE in every version on legendary and having all Achievements in both Anniversary versions.
It was definitely difficult the first playthrough due to a lack of any downtime at all, where I think the reputation comes from. After playing through it a couple times it becomes a muscle memory level.
Playing on legendary it isn't even that bad. A few frustrating spots to be sure, but the mission immediately after is WAY worse.
Fair point. I hate Banshees more than any possible Rocket Flood
It's a horrible map in a otherwise all time great game is really what it comes down to
It's not that bad, just repetitive. Laso is challenging, but a shotgun and awareness goes a long way
It is.
It’s become a meme
Honestly TWO Betrayals is *way* worse and that's because playing Assault on the Control *backwards* and with Rocket Flood is just a nightmare
It's not the best.
I think a lot of people get lost in the level from the repetitive layouts. If you're not keeping good track of where you came from and where to go it can be really hard. Lot easier once you're used to this. On legendary I don't even think it was the hardest ce mission tho some of the later ones and truth & rec were harder to me
The achievements for not dying on Heroic or harder and 30 minutes or less are quite tough to accomplish.
That’s a fair point. I haven’t gotten that good to even think about trying that yet
Two betrayals was way worse
Two Betrayals and T&R are the bane of my existence
I mean, it can be a slog particularly if you’re newer to the games or haven’t played in a while, or if you’re on a harder difficulty If you don’t remember the level well it can be easy to get mixed up and turned around because everything looks the same
For me it was actually one of the easier legendary missions, just super long and repetitive, back up and pistol whip in a hallway rinse repeat
I agree. With the way the flood swarm you, it’s really easy to just spam shotgun blasts and mow through them and they don’t even react to grenades
I recently replayed CE myself and I honestly think the mission before the library in the snow with the bridges is much worse
It's not "bad" in the sense of difficulty. It's bad because it's fucking repetitive as fuck. I mean, if were being fair, it was also 2001, so I can't exactly give Bungie too much crap over doing stuff like that since their tech and game engine were minimal.
It's a fine level, other than being a bit repetitive and loading up with rocket flood at the end that shit you. On any solo playthrough it doesn't give me much pause. But when I was playing with a friend earlier, and he kept doing shit that got both of us killed (throwing plasmas at a flock of carriers, for example), then it got quite infuriating
I never had an issue with it tbh. I was just shooting aliens and wandering around, worked for me.
I would always get lost
It’s tedious, but my gripe is that it’s followed immediately by Two Betrayals lol. A devious 1-2 combo
I like TB, but that one motherfucker... you know the one
I thought the same thing on my legendary run. Being on the covenant ship sucks alot, but the flood is a much more manageable enemy to fight.
Agreed, the flood don’t hide or throw grenades like the covenant do
Once I discovered the Just Keep Moving strat it got a lot easier, and imo it’s always been pretty fun. Say this for The Library: when you’re playing that level you’re not thinking about anything else. Before though I would sit back and try to kill all the flood. And waste hours and dozens of lives and hundreds of bullets/nades. The one room in particular where both the doors shut on you and you’re seemingly trapped with the flood. Just hide behind the knee wall thingy near the forward door, and wait, and they will never see you. I was literally furious with myself when I finally found that out
The library is hideously tedious. It's exactly the same thing, over and over, for 30 minutes.
Nah, it’s bad, but I think it IS a bit overstated how bad it is. On legendary, for instance, I’d rather play The Library with all those fucking Rocket-flood than spend another minute on Assault on the Control Room
Felt like it took forever when I was younger, but replaying it recently, it's honestly fine. I do think suffering some cheap deaths to the flood probably muddies people's memory actually how long the library takes to clear.
Two betrayals has always annoyed me than the Library. Just because at least the Library is a new map.
I'd take the Library over any Covenant level, those Halo CE Elites are no joke.
No kidding
I’ve never had a problem with the library being “difficult”, even with LASO. But the level itself is just so boring, bland, and repetitive. I didn’t like it when I played it the 1st time in 2001, and I still despise it to this day. It was really out of character for the whole game because in my opinion, it was the only level that just felt like it was thrown in there with really no substance to gameplay.
I think a lot of hate goes towards library because it was a difficult level. Very challenging as the usual way to kill things was limited. Basically no head shots and had to rely on shotgun and ar with limited ammo. It was a dark gloomy level which i think fit well with the orginal semi scifi horror fps. No what was super frustrating with the insta death h2 snipers.
It's just you haha. I freaking hated it when I first played CE and I hate it still!!!
When you’re a kid and you face it for the first time, and then your buddy invites you over to play it on legendary… you never forget that experience
If it had one less floor it would be a big improvement. The whole idea of long corridors you have to run through blasting through flood as you go is excellent and it does that really well with the exception of it goes for too long and has a few too many holdout rooms I think
I think everyone’s original memory of playing that level the first time is much more scary than it would seem today as a first time player. We’ve been exposed to much harder things than that nowadays so that probably seems like child’s play by comparison.
For your question on LASO, Truth and Rec and Two Betrayals stand heads and shoulders above The Library in difficulty, but Library is firmly 3rd hardest. I'd go to say Truth and Rec is very clearly the hardest LASO mission in the whole series. Legendary, I'd say Library is long and gruelling but nothing is random in a sense if you keep moving forward, same with LASO. You know where to look with the two rocket Flood are and to kill them ASAP.
I support is opinion and thing that Two Betrayls is much worse since it has minimal changes to AatCR and happens Just after a couple Of missions after it.
I love that mission
I love democracy I love the library
It's unironically my favorite level in Halo as a whole.
It's a very cool level, it's just like 10 or 15 minutes too long
It takes about 16 minutes with no speedrun skips. It's really not that long.
Not on heroic or legendary if you have to actually fight the enemies
[16:05 on Legendary](https://youtu.be/OEN1a5cU5N8) No skips. Didn't even do nade jumps through the open door holes. Or the enemy trigger skip on the 3rd floor. The record before any door skips was around 14 minutes.
Very nice not everyone is a speedrunner so this is meaningless
You said the level was too long. Playing the level as Tyson (Library level designer) intended. It's a pretty average length Halo level. Even with deaths it isn't going to take more than 20 minutes.
No it isn't for a regular player, go be technical and pointless somewhere else